Is crypto a scam or FINDOM fetish?
There seems to be an ever increasingly thin line between crypto, scams, and financial domination. I spoke Steve Pikelny, CEO, CTO, CFO, COO of http://FastCashMoneyPlus.biz and Jesus pamphlet collector aka steviep about his newest art project FinSexy to explore the uncomfortable intersection between findom and crypto. If you liked the podcast be sure to give it a review on your preferred podcast platform. If you find content like this important consider donating to my Patreon starting at jus...
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I really like finding legitimate scam websites and looking around and just having fun with the reality that they're constructing. I guess I could gamble with it on the Internet, and in in early twenty twenty, the the main way to do that was, you know, you buy meme stocks. Yes. You know, GameStop, you know, popped off and it came this thing. And then, you know, later on in the year and early twenty twenty one people are like, oh, actually crypto is a much more efficient way to there is this sort of this idea that, you know, like from nothing we can just create wealth out of thin air. I kinda think that the the promise of Bitcoin is bullshit
in the way that I guess in the way that gold, I think, is also bullshit. It's almost like you get to choose your scam in a certain way, like, which which character profile of person do you want to be domed by? The ideal relationship for me is one is, like, where we're equals, and I, like, value that quite a lot, actually. Alright. Hello, everyone. You're listening to the Blockchain Socialist Podcast. I'm your host, Josh, and I am here with an unusual guest, type of guest I don't usually have, you know, as a socialist. I don't like to have a lot of, like, entrepreneurial business minded people, but today I had to make an exception for the artist that I have today on who is Stevie P. He is an internationally famous artist. He is a CEO, CTO, CFO, and COO of fast cash money plus dot biz and many other businesses. He's very entrepreneurial. He is a Jesus pamphlets collector, his full name, AKA Steve Pickelney. So, Hey Steve, how are you? Welcome.
I'm doing good. You actually thought
leader and top 100 LinkedIn profile guy.
Yes. Social social media influencer, poet,
all the I think you have, like, a a Golden Globe or a Grammy or something like that somewhere in the mix?
Yeah. One day. I haven't, like, quite, you know, extended my entrepreneurial tentacles into the the film and television market yet, but, you know, like, I'm I'm pretty sure, like, once I start start doing it, it'll Obviously, I know with the amount of talent and skills that you have, it's,
you know, an easy an easy dunk. It's a layup.
Oh, yeah. Of course. Yeah.
So yeah. So I think we met like a couple of years ago and I've just been like following a lot of your, your arts along the way. It's all like, I mean, very humorous, a lot of arts related to crypto markets, a lot of arts related to, financialization. And you've recently come out with a couple of new kind of pieces of work that we're going to go into in a little bit, but yeah, maybe if you would regale us with the story of, you know, what got you into making art and getting into crypto. Because I remember, I remember you telling me the story a while ago, and it was a pretty interesting one.
Yeah. So I guess we're joking about getting me getting into the film industry. But originally, I actually did want to be a filmmaker. So I ended up going to, a very liberal artsy college because I was like, okay. I'll get an education in film, but I'm also interested in all the other, you know, humanities bullshit stuff. Like, at the time, I was kind of into just like philosophy and economics and and then politics just as a a thing on the side. So I kinda wanted a well rounded education and I decided, okay, like liberal arts is the way to go. Got to college, first economics one on one class. I'm like, oh, this is actually really interesting. This kinda jibes with how my my brain is wired. And then the financial crisis happened where the entire financial industry was collapsing, and I was spending all my free time reading the news trying to figure out what was going on. And then I'm like, you know what? Actually, like, I think my brain is more suited for just this. Trying to like figure out this very complex and chaotic system that's very very strange and not as well suited for making film. So I ended up, you know, scrapping that life plan and selling out and going to the financial industry where I was a closed end fund analyst for three years. And it was a fun gig for about six months before I got completely sick of it. And I'm like, I fucking hate this. And then I, you know, I decided to learn to code and because, you know, that's where all the real entrepreneurial action was happening. Yeah. This is back in '20 I think 2013 or so that I was, like, trying to look into it, and that's when startup mania was at its peak. And all the all the startups were looking to hire software engineers, but none of them were looking to hire closed end fund analysts. So I was like, okay, fuck this. I wanna learn the code. And, you know, I did. And pretty much like very soon after that, I realized like, oh, actually this is a really good creative outlet as well. So I started making art on the side. And then what was the question like how did I get how did I become, internationally Yes. Artist? In crypto. Yeah. So in crypto. So yeah. So I basically I was doing art on the side for several years. In the midst of it, I I launched my second company, which is Fast Cash Money plus Stuff is, and had an ICO in early two thousand eighteen. And that started my crypto journey as it introduced me to solidity development and, you know, just making very elaborate and stupid websites. And yeah. Then I just, like, continued doing it as a hobby for a few years, and then in '20 late twenty twenty, NFTs started taking off, and a buddy of mine was like, hey, you should do NFTs. I'm like, really? Like, like, why you mean, like, CryptoKitties? Like, why do people care about that now? But, you know, it was like people were paying attention to it. So I'm like, okay. Cool. I'll give it to Scott. Swept up. And yeah. I got swept up and, you know, like, bada boom bada bing, one thing leads to another and You're trading securities Yeah.
Now on the blockchain.
Yeah. Now yeah. I mean, I guess it's funny because, like, even in 2018, the part of the magic of the blockchain for me was, like, wow. I couldn't I couldn't release an illegal securities offering for, like, $30 out of any lawyers or or anything. This is fucking great. And yeah. I mean, like, there's something magical to just, like, having that power as a, you know, software engineer, artist, entrepreneur, whatever you wanna call them. They're just feel like, okay. I'm just, like, putting this thing out into the the wild now without any lawyers or legal oversight. And now this is a thing that people can buy and, I guess, speculate on. And it's, you know, it's not nothing anyone can do about it. It it's there now, and it literally cost me, I think at the time, like, 30 or $40 in gas to deploy the thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, when so what from what I understand, if I remember correctly, like, you were working kind of, like, also that you have this like financial background in which you've always been kind of like I mean, I think it's funny like, you know, it's kind of with me as well. The recession is kind of what like sparked my interest in them, like, I got to learn about this stuff, like this finance and econ stuff. And it was like not something I in, like, thought was a good thing, but I found very interesting in it. And like how people interact with financial instruments, and you know what does it mean to be like on one end or the other of, like, some sort of financial transaction and who benefits what's in this type of system. And then crypto was, like, this opening of, like, alright, now you can do it too, which is, you know, of course, like common theme. I mean, this is, of course a huge double edged sword, like there's so many ways to do it in a super shitty way, and then there's like a very there's a sliver of like, maybe we can do it better. And that's kind of like the, the, the hope that a lot of people are riding on. Of course, I think even still to this day in the crypto world, although now I think it's become quite a bit more nihilistic. But yeah, I guess how would you so I think this, these are like a lot of the themes that I feel like are, are kind of, like, touched upon throughout your work, but how would you kind of how do you describe your work to someone new? Because I feel like if someone were to see it, they they may not recognize that they are actually interacting with art.
Yeah. I mean, I think it's I guess I guess it's funny you say that because the other day I was reading this one book on NetArt, and I guess this was a big problem in early Internet art Mhmm. Where I I guess going on a little bit of a tangent. So there's a New Yorker cartoon that says something to the extent I think it has, like, a picture of a dog on the computer, and the joke is some of the extent of, like, on the Internet, no one knows that you're a dog. And the the follow-up joke for the net artists was on the Internet, no one knows you're an artist. Because it's, you know, it's like you are putting this thing that is out there on the Internet. It doesn't have any context. Someone might just stumble upon it on on Twitter or some web form or just some random website, and they don't really know why it exists, and they're just seeing it fresh. And I think, you know, for me, that also part of what makes it an interesting medium is you just have the ability to create this this, you know, piece of media that is or can be completely contextless and can all of a sudden just pop up and exist in any Internet connected device. But but, yeah, I guess like the the way I would describe my art to someone who doesn't know what I do, which I have to do all the time at cocktail parties and, the like is that in general, I I do a lot of art that focuses on money and finance and scam aesthetics in, you know, various ways. Usually, a lot of the a lot of the mediums I use are generative art, blockchain, and smart contract dynamics, and, you know, people know NFTs. So it's, you know, a lot of my work is NFTs, but I also have a lot of projects that are more than just, you know, here's a token that you just simply trade or transfer to someone else. They might have, like, more complicated dynamics to them. So, yeah, I think the the sort of three big pillars for my our practice are generative art, blockchain stuff, and elaborate stupid websites. And I think
I I try to, you know, blend the three of those as best I can to to make cool stuff. Yeah. I think that's funny. There are I think, like, at least a few instances, I think, where where I've seen people maybe on the Internet, like, first come across your work and they're like, this is a scam or something like that. Like, making making, like, the obvious statements about, like, the the piece of work or the or the websites, like like, looking at it. So I find hilarious. Yeah. I think, like, the
the funniest reaction I always get is that I do have a lot of people who, you know, they see it for what it is as, like, oh, this looks like a scam. So I'm gonna call it out as a scam, which obviously means that they're missing the the point of it. But at the same time the the interesting thing to me is that I don't think anyone has ever seen one of my websites or projects and interpreted it as a like, oh, wow. Here's a great money making opportunity where it's like they they just genuinely are like, you know, taking it face value and looking at it. And like, wow. I can make a lot of money on this thing. And they don't interpret it as a scam. So it's it's either people interpreting it as a real scam or people who interpret it as a fake scam, which is essentially what it is. But there's there there and there's really like no one at the bottom level who is just like looking at it and just accepting it 100%
at face value for what it proclaims to me. Which is I yeah. Which is I think, I mean, you know, when when you go to one of the websites that that you created, I mean, it's it's like so many of the, like, the, the tropes or archetypes of these types of scammy websites that at least if you are like, you know, you've been on the internet for some amount of time, like you can, you can spot pretty easily. And, you know, the vast majority of crypto people probably are people who have been on the internet for long enough to have, like, stumbled upon something like that, you know? But, it would, it would be funny to hear a story of someone who was like, Hey, I want my money back. I thought this was like a real thing.
Yeah. And I'm trying to think if that's ever happened before. I don't I mean okay. So I think the it's happened twice on the same facet of the same project where It's too good. So I have this one project called free, which is it's basically a series of blockchain based challenges where, you know, you can get an NFT, but and but you can't pay for it. You need to just do a thing, which is either, you know, collecting some other NFTs or solving a puzzle or just doing things in a certain order. And one of the challenges, the third one, so free three, is you need to stake a quarter of an ETH for, I think, fourteen or sixteen hours. And then after that time period is up, you have a half hour to stake another quarter beneath, and then you have to wait another sixteen hours. And then when that time period is up, you have another half hour window to unstake everything and claim your NFT. But the the the rub in all of this is that if you don't do the math correctly, then your second stake window can end up being, like, four Right. Right. Or something. So I think there were two people who didn't know anything about, like, what I was doing. They just stumble upon the project on Twitter, and they tried to get a free 3 token. And they were down, like, a quarter of an ETH or half an ETH. And, like like, those people are like, oh, can I get my money back? I really need this or whatever. And the the deal I made with them is that if they try again, so they they start the thing over and they stick another quarter of an ETH, then I'll give them back their original original money. And because, you know, as an artist, I feel like I'd be short changing them if I just gave them an easy out and they didn't have the experience of losing the money. Because, you know, it's like once you take the stakes out of something like that, it kinda loses its emotional experience. But, you know, at the same time, I kinda felt bad. Like, okay. Well, I don't wanna actually steal these people's money. So here's the, you know, here's the the compromise I'll make. And, yeah, I think one of them actually, you know, won the second time and got all their money back and, you know, good for that. And I think one person staked a quarter of an ETH and then asked me for their money back, and I made that deal with them. And then they lost the second round, so they ended up losing even more money. And then after that, I think they just, like, stopped trying.
I mean, do But, you know, what what are you gonna do? They they they signed the contract. Code is law and stuff. But do you do you find that, like, of the people who are able to take in and interpret the art, is there a difference or is there like, do you find people who are like, go into it not knowing that it's art getting more out of it? Or is it people who go into it already knowing that it's art, that they're able to, to like process it better?
Yeah. It's, that's a good question. And it's impossible for me to really know since I'm just sort of like building the experience and people are, you know, having that experience on their own terms. And most of the time, I'm not in the room with them when they're experiencing it. Or rather the the only people I am in the room with who are experiencing it are the ones who are kind of familiar with it and have the context whereas the people who just have no idea what's going on, they, you know, that just happens. And there's no way that I can really capture that. But I do every once in a while, someone will make a comment indicating that they really don't get what's going on. Like so with Fast Cash, the the project I released in 2018, I posted that to bitcointalk.org. And that was that was a very funny thread because I was acting like a huge asshole just, you know, basically, like, you know, using big text and lots of colors on the forum to draw attention to it. And, you know, like, I did get a lot of comments based like, yeah, this looks like a scam. I don't get it. And, like, it didn't seem like anyone really, you know, understood what was what was going on. But I don't know. At the same time, it's like I, I clearly, like, I build the website to not to necessarily optimize for one case over the other. Actually, I do think that there's something interesting about stumbling upon a website where it's like you don't know what level of reality you're on. Like like, for me, it's just like I really like finding legitimate scam websites and looking around and just having fun with the reality that they're constructing. So I would hope that for at least some of the people who don't understand that this is an art project that they, you know, they could at least, like, you know, share with their friends and maybe laugh at it, not really understanding that they're laughing with it. It's being like, oh, look how crazy this is. And, like, I can't believe people are falling for this. And, you know, they still have sort of like an artistic experience or they still have an aesthetic experience viewing it and experiencing it even if they don't really understand the intention behind it. Yeah. Trolling trolling is art in a little bit. Yeah. You could you could say that.
Yeah, it's like I remember, you know, being a kid I mean one of the things that I remember the most being a kid I think are like email chains. Or like I remember what I remember when I was a kid I wanted like I wanted some video game console. I don't remember what, but it was like an email chain where it's like, you have to send seven more people in order to, like, make your wish come true if you like spread this chain. And I remember being like, just so I wanted to believe it so much that, that, that it was possible that this like magic email would, like, give me my PlayStation or whatever it was. Yeah. And I remember, like No. I think my
yeah. Right. Yeah. I I I I think my favorite email chains were the ones that were, you know, like, clearly permanent schemes where it's like, oh, if you send $5 to the the person who sent this to you and then forward it to four other people and they all send you $5, then, you know, everyone just makes a ton of money. And just we've we've created a perpetual motion where yes. It's it's so easy, and if everyone can do this, we're all gonna be Yeah. And even when I was, like, 11, I'm just like, I don't really understand how which is literally Math is off somewhere. But yeah.
Yeah. But I think, you know, what is interesting about having these types of things as, like, art is that it allows you to kind of, like, think about what, you know, not that you would necessarily begin to fall for the scam or whatever, but just to think about why maybe someone would fall for the scam. Why, like, what is it that's like pressuring them? How the like, you know, bright colors and like funny images and things like that kind of elicit an almost like, I don't want to say like uncontrollable, but like, you know, it elicits a response kind of like naturally in like from the way the human eye is like made. We were not, like we did not evolve with, like, the types of colors we can see on the Internet, but in the combination of those things. And so we can easily kind of, like, tap into those things to, you know, elicit certain types of response that you can, you know, for a real scammer can elicit, like, the pulling and taking of of funds. And so I think what's what's really interesting is at least for me, kind of like, you know, in the crypto space generally is, you know, this kind of like promise of getting rich quick, like, finally not having to work your shitty job and being able to, you know, to make it out. And all you have to do is this one weird trick, there's one weird thing, and all of your all of your wishes are right there in front of you. So I do think that's a fun thing to explore.
Yeah. And I think I think that was like, especially that's an that isn't especially interesting sort of, you know, cultural, like, I see thing that definitely felt very apparent in early twenty twenty when you're just like kind of in the depths of the pandemic. You know, QAnon, I remember was really taking off when people were, you know, just, you know, on their computers all day and, you know, that it just felt like there was this, like, very, you know, just like this this feeling around. I'm just like, okay, we're all fucked and we don't have any money because, you know, I'm unemployed now and I really need money. And, you know, rich people are are doing it somehow, and this government stimulus check I got isn't gonna cut it. And what can I do? Oh, well, I don't know. I guess I could gamble with it on the Internet. And in early twenty twenty, the the main way to do that was, you know, you buy meme stocks. And, you know, GameStop, you know, popped off and it became this thing. And then, you know, later on in the year and early twenty twenty one, people are like, oh, actually, crypto is a much more efficient way to to gamble on the Internet. And, you know, it also there's a community around it and it fills this gaping hole in my life that where, you know, meeting should be. And, you know, this is I I guess what I'm gonna do with my my time now. I'm just gonna throw this moderate amount of money that the government gave me at, you know, trying to get more money or or been on sports, I guess, because that's when sports gambling also started
getting really popular. But Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think yeah. Just crypto, I think just the the speed of the movement and, like, the frictionlessness that you can move capital around within, like, the crypto, like, sphere is, like, I mean, it is pretty crazy, like, how quickly you can, you know, chain change your assets to other assets in, like, the hopes of, you know, eventually being able to convert that into real money.
Yeah. Like, I always thought that, like, one of the most interesting aspects of this even if I, like, don't agree with it, but, like, one of the most interesting aspects of the space is sort of the, you know, the financial alchemy of of all of this. Right? I I think even I remember in, like, 2021, there is this DeFi platform called Alchemix Yeah. Where when I installed that name, I'm like, I don't I don't trust this. This sounds like bullshit to me. And I don't know. I I it might still be around. Who knows? But but yeah. I mean, like there is this sort of this idea that, you know, like from nothing we can just create wealth out of thin air. And Yeah. Sort of like in similar ways to the the the chain letter where you're paying the person who sent it to $5 and it's really just this elaborate pyramid scheme. It just like it does feel like a lot of these these defi protocols are just kind of built around, you know, creating value out of thin air. And it's I know it like I guess as a former financial person and economics major, it's it's definitely like one of those things that you look at it and it's like, you know, it's even if you don't trace the or, like, connect all the dots and figure out exactly how it's working. It's just sort of you look at it and you you're like, okay. Well, like, money in is not equaling money out. And there's just setting off my my bullshit radar. And it doesn't doesn't quite make sense. So maybe maybe we should just, like, stay away from this. But, you know, at the at the same time, like, it does for every person that loses a dollar, someone else makes the dollar. So it's as a a gambling mechanism, it's it can be effective. Right. But sometimes
I feel like my bullshit radar makes me miss out on all these money making opportunities on, on whatever is out there that just sort of like, you know, it's so many times I'm like, I see these things like that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And then it's like, Oh, wow, I just made so much money. So we all, we are also living in a time of like strange, strange things that, you know, not so long ago would be like an absolute no, that's not going to happen to like now it is kind of happening for very select few people, you know. Yeah.
Yeah. No. I think that and, like, to be honest, this is you're sort of hitting on sort of an emotion I have when I think really hard about Bitcoin and also gold, which is that you know, you know you know, despite, you know, just, you know, after just talking for several minutes about how a lot of the crypto space is, you know, a bullshit pyramid scheme and a scam and and all that, like, I generally, I am fairly I think as you are, like, I'm fairly optimistic about, you know, the the potential of, like, what the the blockchain can do and and all that and and blah blah blah. But, you know, that said, I am not a I'm not really a believer in in Bitcoin. And I kinda think that the the promise of Bitcoin is bullshit in the way that I guess in the way that gold, I think is also bullshit because people people talk about Bitcoin is like, okay, this is digital gold. And, you know, I don't disagree, but I think just historically, if you look at how gold has been used in society,
then it Wasn't necessarily better. Wait. I just sorry.
Yeah. I I completely just lost my train of thought. We'll fix it in post. I don't know. Fuck. I I just, like, totally spun myself in a loop and forgot forgot where I was or what I was talking about. No worries. We can move on to
I think now maybe would be a good time to go into thin sexy. Do you mean?
You're getting getting cut out a little bit. Now?
Am I getting cut out, or are you getting cut out?
We're back. Hello? Okay. Well, I guess I guess it doesn't matter that I lost my train of thought because
we got caught out of it now. I mean, if it's easier, we can just go on to Finsexy maybe?
We can. I feel like I I I also didn't wanna talk about gold and Bitcoin. But what what was the original question you you asked? Kinda talking about, like, missing out
stuff. Yeah. Yeah. But it's talking about scams, talking about that email chain.
Good to think. Alright. So you're talking about coming away. How Meme coins Yeah. Even though making people actually rich. Yeah. How it's like making people rich, but I think, like, despite setting off your bullshit radar, you you did miss out on money making opportunities. And and, yeah, I think that that happens to me a lot also, and it's happened to me a lot with with Bitcoin where despite, you know, the the fact that, like, I do think it's kinda bullshit, it it has still gone up a lot. And I think that that's difficult to explain, like, why it's happening, but at the same time, I don't think that makes it any any less bullshitty.
Hey there, listeners. Before we jump back into today's episode, I wanna take a moment to talk about how you can support the blockchain socialist and help us continue our mission of providing a voice for alternative and radical viewpoints on crypto. As a creator, there are typically three main ways to generate revenue, advertising, affiliate sponsors, and audience funding. For us, the first two options don't align with our values or the radical nature of our content. That's why we rely on audience funding to pay for the costs associated with producing the show. By becoming a patron on Patreon, you're not just providing financial support, you're actively participating in the growth of a community dedicated to creating high quality content on the crypto and blockchain space from a political point of view. Your contributions to Patreon enable us to create more in-depth content, bring on amazing guests, and exploit issues that matter to you without the constraints of traditional sponsorship. When you join us on Patreon, you'll receive access to exclusive content, blockchain socialist swag, and a copy of my critically acclaimed book, Blockchain Radicals in digital format. More importantly, you'll play a vital role in sustaining our community of like minded people who share your passion for meaningful change in the blockchain space. If you're looking for a more decentralized option, consider joining TBS DAO, which is a crypto alternative to Patreon by paying in Bred, a post capitalist cryptocurrency, which you can find more information on my website. However you support your contributions, make a real impact. Together, we can amplify the voices pushing the boundaries of what's possible and help spread the message that blockchain does not need to be used to further entrench capitalist exploitation if we put our efforts into it. So if that message resonates with you, I hope you'll consider helping out. So so your latest piece of work is finsexy.com. Maybe we can talk a little bit about what this is. I had my own experience, with finsexy.com where I was fin domed out of a little bit of money, and I had that experience because I've never I've never had that experience before. And it's something that I've heard about, like, or at least in a way that in in this particular way, I have not been fin domed as far as I can remember. I can't say what I've done in like blackouts or whatever, but it was something that, I mean, something that for a long time, I like had not been able to comprehend. Like, I guess, I mean, the way that I think of phen doming is usually like a man giving money to a woman. I think in this case I gave, I gave to the character Vince Staples, who was on the website. Vince Slickson. Vince Slickson. Vince Slickson is a rapper. Why did I say Vince Staples? Vince Slickson who got me to give him, I think like point 0.01 ETH or something like that. But yeah. But it was interesting. Maybe maybe yeah. You wanna talk about Finsexy and what and what that what that piece of work is?
Yeah. Sure. So I think the so the original impetus for Finsexy was actually, like, it it was sort of similar to what we're talking about earlier with three three where it, like, in a lot of ways, I was looking at that project and some similar projects I've done around, scam based start. And I think someone straight up asked me once on a panel whether or not I was scamming my collectors and, like, actually scamming people. And for me, like, the answer was a clear no because there's this, like, level of consent there where I'm like, all the people who are giving me money presumably are in on the joke, so to speak, and they they understand what they're getting themselves into, and they are mutually creating this fantasy with me where it's like, oh, no. I fell for the scam and, like, what am I gonna do? But but, you know, it's it they're doing so in an entertaining and interesting way. And, you know, at the time, it sort of reminded me of just sort of like BDSM where it's like maybe one partner is dominating the other partner, but it's really and you're creating this fake power dynamic, but really at the end of the day, it's consensual and both parties know that's consensual consensual. And, you know, the thing that separates BDSM from sexual assault is essentially consent that, like, both parties are in on it, that they're actually collaborating and creating this fantasy, and that this isn't actual this isn't an actual power dynamic that exists. Or if it is, it's something that's consensual that, like, both parties are agreeing to. So I kinda thought, like, okay, like, it does seem like there is a relationship here between, like, okay, I'm scamming people, but it's consensual, but this also kinda feels like like BDSM. And I was thinking about it and I was kind of vaguely aware that fin doming was a thing, which, you know, of course stands for financial domination. And I didn't really know anything about it, but I started thinking about, like, okay, like, maybe a fun project could be as like a blockchain FinDom project could be this smart contract game similar to free three where you stake 1 ETH in a contract, and at any point, I can withdraw that 1 ETH, and then you lose your money and that's the end of it. But if you stake your money for a full hour and I don't I'm not around to take it, then you could unstake your ETH and then you get an NFT or a prize or something. And, you know, the intention being like, okay, there's this consensual thing where it's like anything could happen. You could lose your ETH or you could get the prize. And then, you know, as the seconds tick down, on the timer and you approach an hour, you could be sitting there and being like, oh my god. Is he gonna take the money? Like, what's gonna happen? And it's like it sorta, like, builds this tension. And so I was thinking about this. I'm like, oh, that actually kinda sounds like a Findami sort of thing. So I started doing research into what Findami actually was, and I kinda stumbled upon this insane universe of, you know, like financial domination as a kink. And I kind of became semi obsessed with just like, you know, visiting the subreddit and and trolling around these these websites where different Findoms offer up content or they have these profiles, and they all have their own little persona, like, kind of like the the same way that a a professional wrestler has a persona and they have their own shtick. And, you know, it just like as a universe, it just kinda fascinated me. And I think also at the same time, there was I was just for some reason, I was getting a lot of these emails and and text messages that were basically love scams where they were forwarding me to these, like, fake dating websites where you create a profile and there are just, like, hundreds and hundreds of these fake accounts that all message you. But to message them back, you need to pay them money. And they're all they're all clearly pre written and, like, I don't really I never gave it money, so I don't know what would happen if I bought the credits. But at some point, it's just, you know, it it all sort of like clip together with me. I'm like, okay. What happened? What would happen if as a sort of BDSM fandom scam sort of thing, I have this website where there were all these FinDom chat bots who were trying to extract money out of you. And I think just as as a prompt that really appealed to me because, you know, I think it's just like I think it's just a very interesting idea, but I think also just like how it fits into the rest of my work in terms of, like, you know, just as a concept for, like or as a model of a scam, I think it's interesting because it's sort of this thing that really does play on consent where it's like you go to it and you're being scammed down a money or you're giving the Findams money, but it's it's all consensual and it's presenting itself as like, oh, yeah. Like, you really like giving giving us money. Like, this is so hot for you. And, you know, I don't like you know, these people obviously exist out there. I don't know if there's, you know or I I I shouldn't say I don't know because it's like there are people out there who are really into catfishing fetish stuff. Uh-huh. But I don't think it's that big of an audience. So I think the the overlap between cat fetish cat phishing fetishists and crypto enthusiasts, I think, is quite small. Maybe it exists. Maybe I just haven't found that. I don't know. But Seems like a great audience for you to find though. Like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, like, really my target market for for this website. But but yeah. I mean, I think it's I think just as a concept for a scam, it's really appealing because, like, if I'm putting myself in in the character of this evil CEO who's trying to actually legitimately scam people, it's like, you know, you start thinking like, yeah, like, who like who are the biggest saps out there? It's like, oh, yeah. These, like, these pay pig guys. It's like they they get off on giving me money, so I'm gonna build a website where I extract as much money from them as possible. So I think it's similar to some of my other websites. I kind of embodied this evil CEO character of, you know, someone who didn't, like, really understand the market very well. And maybe they sort of just, like, used an AI or something to to generate this website where they just plugged in, like, make a financial domination website. And then the thing it spit out, like, kind of understood what fin doming was, but not really. And then just, like, a lot of the a lot of the different narrative threads ended up just because the AI just saw financial domination. They actually thought it was like financial domination in, like, the nonsexual sense. So it's like a lot of the the different narratives and stories throughout the website just kind of focus on, you know, broader themes of financial domination where it's like yeah. So yeah. Like, I I think similar like what we were talking about earlier with, like, meme coins where it's like, Vince Slickson really sort of, like, tries to hit on that that anxiety of, like, oh, I, like, I really wanna get rich quick and because, you know, this like, my current job isn't cutting it, and I really I really need this money. So let me buy into this pyramid scheme. Mhmm. Or, you know, another character might try to pull on your heart strings about, like, oh, well, you know, I'm in this, like, dead end job, and I'm kind of, you know, like, the my boss, like, won't won't give me this raise. So, like, I really need this money. And yeah. So I think, like, that one of the main artistic goals in this or, like, I I guess in some ways, like, the the the thesis of the the website or whatever is to sort of, you know, explore different threads of, you know, financial domination in everyday life. And obviously, in the crypto landscape where, you know, you have characters like Samantha Jones who's this this accountant who who just loves auditing crypto sissy boys like you. Yeah. Just like you. Crypto sissy boys or or girls or or or people in general. It's like it's it's not non gender specific, but but yeah. So I think it's just it it was a fun project in that regard to, you know, have have these, like, themes that are really interesting to me and sort of, like, embody this evil CEO character who essentially just, like, in in in the the universe sort of just, like, give an AI a prompt of just, like, yeah, financial domination and make it sexy. Mhmm. And then it just kinda spits out this weird, kinda surreal world where things are kinda sexy, but not really. But maybe for some people and it's, you know, it's hard to say and maybe, like, leaves you feeling kinda kinda weird about where it's all going.
I think one of the things that made that you know, hearing you talk about this evil CEO character, I think what is interesting about also the, the platform itself already having so many characters available is that you, you know, if you are an unsuspecting victim, then you are someone going into it and you're like, oh, wow. Look at all this choice. But by and large, probably so many of them are, are bots or whoever are controlled. So no matter, it's almost like you get to choose your scam in a certain way, like which, which character profile of person do you want to be domed by? Like that, the experience you're having is what you're paying for, not necessarily the who you are paying. Because in the end, at least in this case, probably you're only paying the evil CEO. The evil CEO is just giving you, like, a veneer to choose from, which sounds particularly evil. Yeah. And I think
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I think like, I don't think that many people have actually talked to all of the the fin doms and sort of, you know, gotten 100% of the the narrative. But I I I think by and large, people do tend to experience the website in that way where and, you know, this was intentional where I sort of realized, like, okay. Like, when I was user testing it, people really gravitate towards certain characters but not others, and it was different for everyone. So it's sort of like, okay. Well, if I have a a a variety of doms to choose from, then it's like, maybe you really like Samantha Jones, but, you know, Dungeon Mistress isn't quite your speed. But for some other people who it's like, oh, yeah. I love Dungeons and Dragons and role playing. It's like, they'll gravitate towards Dungeon Mistress immediately. But it's like, yeah. Like, crystal goddess, like, I'm not so into religious play as much. But, you know, someone else is like, oh, yeah. Like, religious play is so hot. But, like, you know, they're not into the accounting aspect of stuff. So, you know, like, different strokes for different folks. But but yeah. I think, like, one of the if one were to sort of, you know, really, like, get into the universe and explore the website, like, there are there are some narrative threads that kind of point in the direction of the of the CDP Dom, which believe it or not, is is based on me and myself. I mean, you look just like him. Yeah. And yeah. I mean, it's I I mean, like, that that was an actual picture, by the way, I took where I was just, like, at a pool one day, and I was just, like, yeah. I was, like, I'm looking pretty good. And I, like, I really like this this money speedo that I'm I'm actually wearing in real life. And, you know, I've got snap a couple photos and, you know, looks great. But but yeah. I think the a lot of the narratives sort of, like, point in the direction of the CDP Dom. And if you talk to him, one of the things you or, like, one of the themes that starts, like, coming out of it is like, you do start to get, like, a little bit more into, like, the extractive nature of, like, platform capitalism where it's this thing where, like, you know, it's like, hey. Like, I've created this website that you have these real relationships with, and, like, your AI girlfriend is really embedded in this platform. And, like, you love her, don't you? So if you wanna keep seeing her, you need to pay me even more money and, like, I really have you by the balls here. Which, you know, is is obviously, like, kinda silly because it's you're not forming actual relationships with these people. But it's at the same time, if you look at some of these websites that actually do exist where they are legitimately, like, these are AI girlfriends, and these are characters you talk to, and Mhmm. They are a facsimile of real people, and you're like, even if they don't exist, you are forming real relationships with them. And at the end of the day, it's like, you know, you could say, like, okay. Well, it's it's a robot. It's not a real person, but, like, whatever. But you are forming a real relationship with them. And because they're embedded in that platform, you have this corporation that essentially controls this relationship with them. And, you know, it's it's sort of fucked up that it's like if you actually fall in love with this this AI persona, then, like, you need to keep paying to keep that relationship up. And really what you're doing is you're you're kind of falling into a romantic relationship with a a corporation, and you need to, like, you need to, like, actually continue paying money to keep the relationship going. Uh-huh. So I I kinda feel like the, like, the Findom AI, you know, sex platform is that that that sort of, like, emphasizes the point because by making it a Findom thing, you're putting the the money aspect of the relationship for, like, front and center. Right. So I kinda thought like, as I was building the website out, I think that was one of the the main themes that started to really stick out. But,
when you when you frame it like that, what comes to mind for me is, like, that's basically very similar to how a lot of brands work. How already, like, you know, you have to pay subscription fees to, like, you know, if whatever if you're I mean, for a lot of people who do, like, a lot of tech stuff, you have to pay subscriptions for whatever SaaS thing you need to use, and you develop I mean, not in the same way as, like, a romantic relationship or whatever, but you develop a relationship with, like, the technological products because you need it for your work, you need it for this and that, and you lose it if you don't, if you don't pay. And so in some ways, and that's a relationship with a corporation. I'm being, you know, I'm fin domed by I mean, plenty of people can you can I mean, there's maybe some ways to play with it? Like maybe you can get out of that fin dom relationship if you're like using free and open source softwares, maybe like one solution out or whatever. But yeah, I know it's something to it's a it's a something that already kind of exists.
Yeah. No. I mean, it a 100% exists. And I think as a software engineer myself, like, it kind of it kinda scares me to, like, become reliant on some of these tools because it's you end up in this situation where it's like, okay. My problem solving mechanism is now reliant on this specific tool. And if this tool isn't available, then my brain just doesn't function properly. And it's like I don't know. It's like have ever have we ever been at a point in, like, human history where we, like, had that relationship, like, before the rise of technology where it's like you kind of have this this idea or, like, this cognitive tool that is show like owned by someone else and you need to basically keep paying rent to keep using it. Because like normal at least with like, you know, open source software, you have the thing where it's like, okay. Well, it's like I'm used to this tool or this language or whatever, but it's I'm I'm sort of like free to use it forever, and it's it's fine. But if it's it's proprietary, then you're kinda you're kinda screwed because like like that problem solving mechanism or that language or that way about that way of thinking about the world is really owned by someone else. So in a lot of ways, it's like part of your part of your brain is really owned by this other entity that you have to keep paying money to Right. To access, which is I don't know. Right. Right. It's weird.
Yeah. The the privatization of cognitive ability. Oh, did you freeze?
Hello? You still there? Yeah. Okay. Cool. Yeah. You got cut out. As as long as we're as long as we're stopping though, I wanna close my blinds because I'm getting, like, December here. One sec.
Nice.
Okay. That's better.
Well, yeah, no. It's fucked up. So do you still want to try to do the, the improv? Findom, Findom improv.
Yeah, we can give it a shot and see what it does.
Alright. Okay, so now that you've, you know, created such a platform in which you have Findom'd so many people and done all this experience, you probably have the experience of you probably know how to fin dom me. And I would love it if we can have a little fin dom session where you can try to fin dom me, me being a socialist soy boy, you know, we, we probably need to, we need to have a safe word probably first, but, yeah, we'd love to give, give the audience the experience of what to expect in the PhinDAM session.
Mhmm. Okay. That's fair. Yeah. I'm trying to think of, like, what a good safe word would be. Maybe maybe if it's, like like, marks oriented.
What what would be it like? Like like, class consciousness.
Or is that true? Class consciousness.
But it has to be something, but, like, I want but, you know, you got you got to be able to use those words in order to, you know, properly fend on me.
Yeah. Okay. I mean, I guess, we we could use the standard, like, red, yellow, green, where green is just like, oh, yeah. Keep going, daddy. And yellow is like, okay. Let's let's pause for a second. And red is like, okay. Let's stop. This is, you know, let's pull the plug on this. Alright. Get traffic. Traffic light traffic light improv. Yeah. Traffic light system. Yeah.
Okay. Okay. So if I were to, if I were to probably, I guess when you're, when you're like wanting to be FinDom, when you're opening line, I do you, do you is it like a pickup line or is it just like a maybe I'll just start with, hey. I'm new to this.
Okay. So, yeah, let's let's start there. So
Hey. I'm new to this stuff.
Oh, well, like, what makes you think that you you could even talk to me without without paying me money? It's like my time is really valuable. You know that? Oh, sorry.
I didn't I didn't I I I didn't mean to exploit your your labor.
Oh, yeah. It's like you'd love that to exploit other people's labor, wouldn't you?
No. Actually, I hate I hate exploiting other people's labor. It's it's it makes me feel very guilty.
Guilt. Yeah. No. It's actually harder than yeah. It's hard to do, like, in real time because I think it's yeah. I think okay. Like, so I guess, like, for me, this isn't, like, my thing. I'll I'll just put that out there.
But Let's get started.
It yeah. No. But, like, at the same time, I I could see myself being into it if it was, like, an actual an actual, like, power dynamic and, like, an actual BDSM thing where someone, like, actually wanted to to pay me money. So it's like I don't know. It's just like yeah. I'm not doing a very good job of actually sending you, I guess. That's right. Hard to give you money. The yeah. But the I I I think just like in terms of, like, how it, like, actually works in practice usually is from what I've been able to tell is usually there's a sort of there's an approach where it's like you might come to me and ask me, like, oh, just like, what's how much should I attribute to you? And then you you pay your tribute, and then we we chat for a bit. Maybe I maybe I shame you. Mhmm. Maybe I try and, like, draw on your insecurities. I I think, like, humiliation is a big part of it. So really, like, I think a lot of it would just depend on just, like, sexually, like, what are you into? Are you be are you into being humiliated? Do you like being a good boy? Do you who just, like, follows directions? I guess, like, in your fantasy, are you, like, are you being exploited for your labor? Like, is that a thing that, that gets you off? And if so, then maybe we could have some sort of some sort of, like, power fantasy where where you're, like, you're doing work. So then that would be it would be better if I was, like like, a libertarian
and cap who wants to be exploited to, to continue the process of capital accumulation for good businesses.
Yeah. That that could work. I guess if if that isn't like a like in some ways that is a fantasy that you have where, you know, on the surface, you're this like you're this good little boy, you know, social, like, I'm a I'm a blockchain socialist and, like, I don't like being explain or anything. But, like, really, like, in the the deep recesses of your mind, you're just like, oh, but I just, like, I really just wanna be this, like, this this end cap, like, working at McDonald's, just working my way up for for years and years, and then, you know, making a lot of money or whatever. But, you know, like, at the at the same time, it's like I could see just as as a socialist, like, maybe your your deep dark fantasy is, like, you actually do secretly enjoy that power relationship of, like, you're working somewhere, and you're just kinda following directions, and you have this one person looming over you who has this power, who is like maybe, you know, like, you're you're renting out part of your your brain capacity for this this one person. You're just submitting to your corporate overlord, and you don't have to make any decisions. And every bit of value that you create just goes to your, your corporate daddy or or mommy or or whoever. And, you know, it's just like and maybe this is something that gives you a lot of anxiety, which is why it's a a thing that you genuinely politically strive to address. But at the same time, because it it has this sort of embedded just like a visceral emotional reaction in you, Maybe that's something that just, like, sexually also kind of gets you off because it's even though you don't like it, it it kind of just, like, excites you for better or worse. And it's it's sort of this form of pain, but it also creates this this, like, weird, like, role playing space where you could sort of explore what these different fantasies mean to you. So, yeah, I guess it's it's one of these things I think where it's just like this very, like, personal thing. So which I actually, now I am curious just, like, what, like, if there is for for, like, you personally, like, what that one thing would be, like, what that sort of, like, visceral uncomfortable thing is that really kind of secretly excites you?
I have no idea. I mean, like, don't know. I mean, you threw me off so much with that question. I don't even know. I mean, I feel like I'm pretty I feel like I'm pretty vanilla on these things.
Yeah. And that's okay. Some people are just vanilla and that's like, they don't, I think a lot of it is also just like the,
a lot of it just kind of comes back to like what, what excites them. Right. I mean, I'd say I like for me personally, like I'm definitely like, I don't enjoy, I personally don't enjoy at all, like humiliation or like, or like good boy type of things, like either one. Like I do think, I actually, I mean, I, I mean, you know, if you want to talk about relationship, like politics in your relationship, I do have definitely like, the ideal relationship for me is one is like where we're equals. And I like value that quite a lot. Actually. One thing that came to mind whenever you were talking about it though, in like the, the diff the exploring the kind of contradictions, I was, like, in my head, I was about to say, like, yes. Talk to me about dialectics, you know? Like, you know, let's talk about, like, the Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but this is, you know, always with these kind of, like, deep psychoanalytic things about people. There are, you know, an abundance of of contradictions and things that, you know Yeah. So I think
so, like, maybe if, like, that's the case. I actually have two ideas. So so so one idea which is maybe a little less in dummy, which is like maybe you're talking to like the sexy Marxist professor who you're just sort of like in awe of. And you you like, you just wanna, like, talk dialectics all day, but in actuality, they they take advantage of you and they, you know, they they exert their academic power over you. So that's one idea which, you know, it's not as it it like, it's not that interesting to me, but, like, as you're talking, it's it sounds like maybe that's something that Exploited graduate student. Yeah. Exploited graduate student. I'm sure is, like, probably legitimately very popular. But I think the maybe for you the since you don't like the fantasy of, like, actually being humiliated or exploited, maybe you could sort of have, like, more of a, like, a bratty and dumb thing where it's like you're the I I guess this, like, sort of gets back to what we were talking about earlier where it's, like, maybe the dumb is the the capitalist who is exploiting you in some way and you're you're resisting. Like, you're Mhmm. Like, maybe there's, like, some sort of, like, Leninist thing in there or something like revolutionary thing where it's like you are trying to facilitate the, like, the the worldwide communist revolution. But, you know, it's like to get there, you need to, like, maybe, like, bribe your way across the the train system of Europe to get back to motherland. But to, like, do that, you need to perform financial and sexual favors to, like, different train conductors or or maybe, like, you need even though you're, you're a communist at heart, you need to you need to, like, work to feed your family and, like, you don't like it, but you gotta do it anyhow, which I got. Maybe that's, like, a little bit more humiliation focused, but, like, maybe there's maybe there's, like, an out in there where it's, like, you really even though you're being submissive, you you you have, like, something where you could really, like, stick it to the your corporate overlord or
Well, I mean, I don't know if we're still if we're meaning just for this to still be in the podcast, but I think there is, like, something actually very interesting about I mean, just to be, like, a little like, this this comes from the whole, like, I I don't know if you like, this is horrible that my my brain is poisoned. But, like, the whole, like, you know, whether or not blowjobs are, like, submissive or dominant behavior, you know, this type of thing. Like, I think there's something also very similar in the worker capitalist relationship where, like, the the usual mode of thinking about this relationship is that the worker is being dominated. They're subjugated to to to the capitalist. But that's actually like in a, if you take like the Marxist framework for understanding like labor, then you can say actually it's the reverse. It's a flip that if workers are, if they're unionized or whatever, they're collectively organized, then they are actually the ones dominating the Capitalists because they can, at any moments, like withhold their labor, and therefore the Capitalist gets nothing. So it's like, you know, it, there is this kind of like parallel perhaps to draw around, you know, whether or not blowjobs are submissive or dominant where like, you know, a lot of people will say that like it's the submissive behavior to do that, but actually they're the ones with control in that situation. And same it's the same with workers. Workers are actually the ones, if they were to recognize us, at least are the ones in control of, like, you know, the production of commodities and, like, whatever else. And, like, the capitalist relies on they are dependent on needing to have workers to produce to produce their business.
Yeah. No. I've never quite thought about it like that, but I a 100% agree. That makes a ton of sense. You absolutely should put this in the podcast. But, yeah. No. I mean, I think that, like, that is that is really interesting and it, like, it kind of, yeah. Like, I I think, like, a lot of times in I think, just like in general, like, in both, I guess, like, BDSM and, like, actual economic relations, it's like the, like, the the power structure that you have isn't always totally clear, and it's not, like, it's not just like a one dimensional, like, this side has leverage or the power, and this side has less leverage or power. And usually, it's like kind of, it's like weird intermingling of the two, or it's like in this this context, I kind of have more leverage, but if you withhold this then whatever. It's also sort of like making me think of, like, I was listening to this, like, one interview with a stripper and it which like kind of feels like it's in the same ballpark as FinDoming, and that it's sort of a it's both a sexual relationship and a legitimate financial relationship, or it's this very, like, transactional, like, you're giving me money, and I am giving you this this service. And it seems like a lot of a lot of men who go to strip clubs sort of they see themselves in the more dominant role where it's like, I'm going to the strip club, and they're, like, unpaying sexy women, and they're gonna, like, dance for me, and, like, you know, whatever. But, like, I think, like, when the stripper was being interviewed, it was really interesting because the way she was framing it, she was framing it in the from the standpoint of, like, her being the more dominant person where it's, like, she's on stage. She's the one running the show. She's making eye contact, and it's sort of this like predator prey sort of thing. And, you know, like for her, it's just this very financially empowering thing where it's like, okay, like these these people who are I don't know what they're called. Patrons, customers, client. I don't know. Whatever whatever it's called. I'm gonna go with patrons. Like, these patrons of the strip club are you know, it's like they're there and, like, it's it's really, like, up to me to exert power over them and to take their money in in a way. So Mhmm. It's I I guess similar. It's like it's this weird, like, power relationship where it's not quite clear who has the power, but, like, simultaneously, it kinda feels like there are elements of dominance and submissiveness there. Yeah. But I guess in capitalism, it's the same thing because it's, you know, it it it takes two to tango.
Yeah. And, you know, in case you are interested in exploring this FinDom relationship, tech check out my Patreon, where you can also experience being a patron. I am stripping for you right now through my microphone and webcam in case he wants some, let's go. You know?
But it's an it's an intellectual striptease where you really strip bare the the ideologies of neo neo neo capital neoliberalism and and blockchain ideology and I don't know.
Yes. Absolutely. So, you know, it's not it's one thing to to talk about and listen about these things. It's another thing to experience being subjugated by me, by giving me money on patreon.com. It would be, it would be also be a really good help to help me keep going, but yeah, we reached a bit of an hour or so. Yeah. Stevie, thanks so much for coming on. Thank you for exploring this taboo topic that people wouldn't normally expect to be exploring on, on this podcast. So maybe if you would like to leave for people where they can keep up with you and your work, where they can get fin domed, etcetera.
Yeah. No. Thanks. Thanks for having me. This is a lot of fun. I've got a lot lot lot to chew on here in terms of my my financial relationships and and sexual relationships, I guess, and how it fits into Marxist power structures. It's very interesting. Yeah. So you could follow me on, you know, the I I guess, like, go to my website. That's the easiest thing. Steviep.xyz, which has all my all my projects, all my social media links, and and all that. If you wanna follow me on on Twitter, it's Steviep x y z. If you wanna follow me on Finsexy, you go to finsexy.com slash what is the URL? Finsexy.com/doms/cvp, and then you can get the internationally famous artists, blah blah blah blah blah. And oh, yeah. Also, I've plugged this on another podcast, but I didn't get any bytes. But some people don't like to actually pay crypto when they're getting fin domed, and instead they prefer to give someone something off of a wish list. Mhmm. So on my thin sexy profile page, there's, there's a very sexy wish list that links to to Amazon. So if you wanna get me something from there, I highly encourage you to. Although, I will I will say I I I do have one thing I really want, and one thing I don't really want as much. The thing I really want is is a dish soap because I'm running dangerously low on it. And the thing I don't actually want is the $2,000 fuck bench because I don't have anywhere I I I do not have enough space in my apartment to to actually store it effectively. So if anyone actually get I mean, it would be hilarious if someone bought me a $2,000 fuck bench, but if if I actually received one, I would have to give it away by just putting it in the hallway in my building. That is an expensive Someone else would end up it it is. I mean, I'll be honest, like, I'm intrigued by it. I've never used a a fuck bench quite that elaborate and expensive before. So I would I would have to, like, figure out a way to use it at least once, but, I don't think I could really store it long term. So it it would be an expensive probably like weird one off thing that I don't know. So it's get me something else from get me dish soap. That's it's so much cheaper, so much easier, so much more fun. We're starting we're starting the fundraiser to get you the fuck bench. I mean, hey. If you if you get me the fuck bench, then that's, like, you know, I'll I'll figure it out. Like, I'll cross that bridge when I get it, but it's not it's not my first option. Let's let's just say that.
Fair. Fair. Well, alright. Thanks so much again. I'm now going to dominate the listener by turning off the recording. You don't get any more recording unless you pay for the Patreon.