Welcome to FOI Fest twenty twenty six. Hello, everybody. My name is George Greenwood. I'm an communications reporter at, The Times newspaper and, a bit mildly, an avid user of FOI for my reporting. Today, it's gonna be a quick fire, skill session, just 10 tips in ten minutes on how best campaigners, journalists, members of the public, even some of the public authorities, can use FOI, to the best for their ability, and to get the most out of it. So I think the first thing to say is that don't be afraid of the appeals process. Not every public authority gets it right first time. Sometimes finding more context of your request can be really important and explain why it's in public interest to disclose it. But also I think that as from a journalist's point of view or a campaigner's point of view, if you think there's something really good there, you should exploit the opportunities for appeal you have. I think that, when you can, you do need to, get through, what what why is this in the public of interest? Why is this something that should be disclosed? And put that in as much detail as you can. The public authority of the ICO, the very tribunal maybe at some point so that these things can be taken into account. In terms of the ICO, remember, you don't need to write essays. I'm sure Warren's talked about the use of AI, maybe not being most helpful if you just want to put across what your point is. But you do have that right of appeal. And if you think there's a good story there and you think there's public interest and stuff being out there, you should make that appeal. Inevitably, in the way f y law works in The UK, you have to play the long game slightly. You know, if you have to get to an ICO appeal, that can take months, to get through. It gets to the tribunal. It'll take you longer. So to some extent, you have to punch clever. What you can't assume is that within a month of you getting, within a twenty working days, you will get the information you need to write a story, to build a campaign, to find information that's something, that you can use. In my experience, I tend to think in terms of twelve to eighteen months. Can I get in is this still gonna be a story in twelve to eighteen months to justify the efforts I'm putting in to go through the appeals process? You also need to think about really cynically, is a news editor or is your campaign chief or is your, issue going to still be an issue in that time period? And I think being being blunt, that's the way you have to think about these things. Sometimes you get lucky. Sometimes authorities will release things, within twenty working days, forty working days, or after an internal review. It doesn't always happen. So I think you have to if you get to that, it'd be great, but you should have to think about, is it still worth going down this, level, of an appeal to to get where you want to go. I think what I would say is don't be afraid of the information tribunal. I know it is scary, and I certainly found it scary when I'm out first time to suffer and present in front of a judge. But you can do it. You don't need a lawyer. What you need to do is have a serious case. I think don't take it lightly. But at the same time, you can put in paper appeals, for example. That is just like you have to the ICO. You write down your reasons why you think it may should be public. You respond to submissions from the ICO and from public authority, and a judge without having a hearing will make a ruling. Now, you know, this is something that shouldn't be taken lightly. I think you really do need to think there's a story there or something important. But if you don't think, you got your you've got the first time around the ICO, they missed something or you think that they didn't quite get something right and it does happen, don't be afraid to consider an internal information tribunal appeal. I think, as Isaac was talking about just now, when you're sending round robins, do consider doing a test, sending of requests first. I've been there and sent 400 f y requests to every public authority in the country to realize that I was citing the wrong piece of legislation or the wrong, the wrong thing, and suddenly got 400 reviews, and it killed my inbox. So do consider sending maybe 10% of the authorities you're looking at. It reduces burden on them because if it's not going to be a story you're going to do, it doesn't waste their time, it doesn't waste your time. So FYI stories are not going to be something you get within a month, and, actually, I think taking this longer term approach means you get a much more targeted request when you send out the final round robin, and you're going to get a much better result and give you something that actually might prove something you're trying to look into. So don't be afraid to actually do one round of requests to see what information is held, how it's held, and it really leads to much better FOI practice that wastes less time for authorities and wastes less time for you. Get on the phone. I think that all too often, and younger reporters especially who've grown up in the, technical era, and the same campaign, they're afraid of the mobile phone. They're afraid of ringing someone up and asking questions. Most FOA officers are there to help you. They are there because they care about information, and actually talking to them is going to be something that saves everyone lots of time and lots of anger. In generally, in my experience, it's not FYI officers that are refusing disclosure authorities. It's people who are higher at the chain. That's where the pressure comes from, not from FYI teams themselves. And as, Morris was saying, like, knowing that they can tell their advisers you're not gonna be able to not release this, can be really helpful. But getting on the phone with them, talking about them, they can help you target your requests. It saves them time, and it saves you time. And as long as you go on to it, there's an open minded view that they're not there to try and stop you. They're actually probably gonna be a good resource for you, and actually getting on the phone where you can. That that can save everyone a lot of time. Now, of course, some authorities don't put phone numbers on websites or it's quite hard to find, but where it's available, don't be afraid to get on the phone and talk to these people, if you can. Don't don't be afraid to combine your data rights. So, DPA and FOI requests can be used, in concert. Sometimes your own departments just accuse you of misusing the law in doing so, but it's not true. You're allowed to send a DPA request and followed up an FOI request. This is an example, from the attorney general's office, where, I'd done some work on, email sent by, now reform MP, Swala Bravaman. It took a it took getting to the tribunal and a long, piece of work to get the information, which proved that she was misusing the emails, which posed a security risk. I got a story out of it eventually. But the request was so slow, I did have concerns about my how my own personal base was being used. So I filed a DPA asking for every email about me, got the response, and then found what was most interesting responses in that and filed an FOI for each of those documents. And that's what you got where actually, you know, you can you know, the DPA version of that was just, George Greenwood's, a bit of this, and actually the rest of it all came from the FOI. And actually, you know, that's obviously me looking at how FOIs are politicized sometimes in public bodies. But if you've got a source or a contact or somebody who has had a bad experience with public authority, they have DPA rights as well. So you can get them to file DPA requests and then file an FOI request for the remaining information. And so combining your data rights, in this way can be really effective at, getting more information that would otherwise hit the cost limit because, you know, you wouldn't the government the the plan might quite rightly hit section 12 cost limit because it doesn't know where it is. But if searching just for your name, there isn't a DPF there isn't a cost limit in the same way as a burden limit, which is slightly, more difficult, to argue around. So actually combining your data rights in this way can be really effective at looking where there's been a misuse of process around an individual or an individual suffered from, abuse by authority or misconduct around, their activity or or their abilities to claim benefits or or something like that. So don't be afraid to consider combining your data rights in the situation. And in this case, it led to the ICO actioning action against the AGO, because of the way they handled information. So you can see even, you know, something that might seem, you know, technical, actually, it can lead to action being taken into authorities as a result. A lack of transparency is actually a news story itself in my view. I think especially when it's stuff that's really in the public interest and an authority does resist, hold up, force you to go to the ICO, force you to go to the tribunal, that's actually something worth writing about. So I think that, you know, whatever the left of the law, there's a moral question here, should this information be public? And actually, my experience as a reporter, sometimes fighting that in parallel in the press can be effective at making a government department or a public authority reassess whether it's worth fighting this all the way through. To give you one recent example, we wrote a story about the Crown Estate, not with not releasing information about Prince Andrew's rental agreements, at Royal Lodge. And a day later, I think it's the fastest response I've ever had, in in my life. A day later, we actually disclosed the whole thing, and that let us break the story about peppercorn remnants. So sometimes actually writing about transparency can be not only important for constitutional reasons, I. E. This is a topic we think we're being really badly served by government not being transparent on, it can actually be a tactic in terms of making sure they're aware that this is actually a matter of why BlueJeans by generating that sort of public debate yourself to some extent, and that can really help, government departments reassess whether stuff shouldn't be should should not be public. One thing I'd really encourage everyone to do who does lots of requests is to keep a request library. Don't just keep it, in an inbox somewhere. Actually think about having a structured response library that you can keep track of what you've asked for because often things change, news reports change, what is salient in a situation changes, and suddenly a story that you thought was interesting but not maybe biggest in the world can sometimes become really relevant. And having that kind of structured archive means you get the most out of that information that it's not just been a sort of FYI that sits in your inbox that actually you can then go back to and and use and get the most value from that value for time and money out of the FOI request. So I'm just giving you one example. I did a whole series of requests to public authorities about, Chinese funding for, university programs that fell out in the news. The story didn't get used initially, but I kept a good record of what I'd done there. And then suddenly there was a news hook for this, about a a scandal at a different university, and within a week, I could run up a story about this based on the other FOIs. So it's a really good example to keep a really good record of what you've done. Don't just dump it somewhere. Actually, you know, keep this on your computer somewhere so you can come back to it later or also inform future requests. If you've got something before, knowing that you got it before and you might want to go for it again can be really helpful in making sure, that you can use precedent to help negotiate with authorities that may be slightly recalcitrant about responding. One thing I we don't really talk about here, but it's really important is often FYI laws around the world are not jurisdictionally limited. So in The UK, for example, if you're a Swedish national or a French national, there's nothing to stop you making an FOI in The UK, and that's often true abroad as well. So, actually, if you're doing campaigning or reporting, getting information under other FOI, jurisdictions and then comparing that to The UK or using that to find information about UK related matters in other jurisdictions, can be really helpful. I mean, to give one recent example, in October, with the organized crime and corruption reporting project, we did a big investigation into doctors who've been banned in foreign countries who've been able to get UK medical licenses. Now that involved us filing FOIs all over Europe to get the ban lists, and then to match them. But, for example, one of the key stories from that came from an FOI we filed in Norway that showed a doctor who was registered in The UK, had been banned there and actually got the whole reasons for his banning. Now, you know, in that situation, that's a clearly UK relevant story. So actually, sometime, you know, for example, the EU has FOI laws as well, which sometimes, can be relevant for comparisons or for other things. So do be aware that your FOI rights are not just UK focused, but they are cross jurisdictional. You know, US regulators, and they have information about UK matter. Do you think about using your rights, across the world and not just in The UK? I think the thing is with all this stuff is it's really important, and you can get very heated about thinking that shipping should be put domain. But be nice. Like, there's no you can be firm and forceful in your arguments without playing the man, not the ball. Air forearms are normally just doing their job, and usually, it's not them who is the pressure and authority not to release something. That usually comes from higher up, unless it's actually something that they really don't think should be released for good reasons. And in that case, that's a matter for the ICO courts to look at and come to a recent conclusions. Being nasty, being rude, being, aggressive towards people will not help you. All it will do is make them less likely to be as helpful as possible as they can be, and undermining your potential ally than the organization you're trying to call to account. It's not worth it. Don't do it. Those are my 10 tips in ten minutes. Thank you very much for listening to my rambling.