From the North Carolina League of Municipalities, this is Municipal Equation, a podcast about cities and towns. Hello and glad you're here on another episode of Municipal Equation. My name is Ben Brown. I'm with the North Carolina League of Municipalities, and we're gonna talk about civility in the government process today. I mean, I I know that's of that's familiar to all of us as a basic principle, civility, the thing we strive for. But in that, there's a special even, you know, kind of scientific kind of a way of looking at it, a structured way of looking at it and committing to it, to civility. And that's worthy of a conversation, the structure and nuance of civil dialogue in local government. That's what we're gonna talk about today on municipal equation with a longtime colleague of mine, Vicky Miller, who is one of the people here actually leading a course on this subject meant for municipal governing boards. The course is called Commit to Civility, and we're gonna talk about how it's not just another mushy feel good talk about getting along or the need to get along. It's about the dynamics of disagreement and how we can disagree in a healthy way and remove these hindrances to good outcomes. But first, we're gonna stop in on a good vibe and a great idea that Civic Credit Union is putting out there with a new campaign I wanna talk about briefly called I Love NC Local Government. Again, the name is I Love NC Local Government. It's a campaign that, just as it sounds, highlights what we love about local government in North Carolina and the great career or place of involvement that it can provide. And we're gonna talk about it with someone working directly on this campaign and inviting your participation to show your love for what local government is and how it can help make North Carolina a great place to be. Let's talk about it for a minute with Jazz Kilpatrick of Civic Credit Union. Could you give us a brief explainer on Civic? You know, who and what is Civic, and what kind of relationship or connection do you guys have with local governments?

And so being familiar with local government means, you know, be being familiar with the you know, there there are so many, positive points about local government, specifically, I think. Just the local government level being close to the people, you know, giving people, you know, direct access to to lead their communities and so on. Could you tell us about the I Love NC local government campaign? You know, what it is, what it looks like on the ground? What what it what is the campaign?

all the way to city and county managers. This this is obviously a great program on its face, and it's it's it's loaded with positives. But, you know, what what kind of positives do do you associate with a campaign like this if great involvement? What what do you see as the the benefits of this campaign?

Well, that that's a great point about recruitment and retention and, and, you know, really sharing the stories from inside local government about how much of a rewarding job it it can be to have or a rewarding career, it can be to have, to, you know, really get people on board with this. And we you know, we're obviously trying to share this with our members, who, work for the cities and towns across North Carolina. How do people learn more about it and get involved?

Jessica Patrick of the Civic Credit Union, thank you so much for your time. We're really excited about the campaign and can't wait to see the, participation that it gets. Thank you so much for having us. Now let's get into our feature conversation for this episode about civility in government and something the League of Municipalities has been bringing to government officials, a course offering about civility. This course, again, called Commit to Civility, just to give you a sense of where this fits in with the League of Municipalities. Commit to Civility is part of our program called Advancing Municipal Leaders or AML, And it's a member driven education program designed to provide continuous learning opportunities and help local elected officials be successful in public office. So with AML, we give municipal leaders what they need to exceed the requirements of their roles in office and know how to navigate things out there today as the world we live in seems to be in constant evolution or change, new conversations happening all the time, maybe some gray areas when it comes to how to respond to certain things. So AML is one of the ways we can help municipal leaders in that regard. So we've got on demand trainings and classes and so on, and also certifications for officials who complete these trainings. Like, for example, there's the financial management certificate. There's the DIRECT certificate. DIRECT stands for diversity, inclusion, and racial equity for cities and towns. And there's the commit to civility certificate. Let's talk with Vicky Miller from the North Carolina League of Municipalities on how this all works. First off, could you, tell us who you are by name and job title and then a couple sentences explaining the kind of work you do for the league? You know, you've been here a lot longer than I well, yeah, you've been here longer than I have. That that's the better part of a decade, which is kinda crazy to think about at this point. But Yeah. Almost. Yeah. It's it's coming up. But tell us who you are and and what you do for the league.

Well, thank you, Ben. My name is Vicky Miller, and I am the learn director of learning and development with the league. And been here, going on close to ten years. Currently, what I work on is with our, leadership program, training program for municipal leaders, municipal officials through our advancing municipal leaders program. And we provide training opportunities, learning opportunities for elected officials, municipal officials, elect elect department heads, as well as staff on foundational pieces of municipal governance just to provide them with what the tools that they need so that they can do their jobs, to the best of their ability for their constituents.

Well, mentioning foundational pieces, I mean, you know, today we're talking about the the topic of civility and some programming we have around that. And, you know, specifically, this is something we've been doing here at the league. You know, to that end, you know, which we call the Commit to Civility, and this is something we've brought to municipal governments across North Carolina. For anyone listening who isn't familiar with Commit to Civility, why don't you flesh it out for us a little bit, and then I'll have some follow-up questions to cover it a little bit more. But what what's what's the program, and what do we even mean by civility?

Thank you for, sharing the opportunity to share about the the Commit Disability program. As you mentioned, this is an endeavor and initiative that diff, municipal leagues around the country are engaging in. And North Carolina, we're very, proud to have started a program as well. And at its core, civility to us, is about understanding that it's okay to disagree, that we're not always going to agree with everything. Our leaders are not always gonna agree. Communities are not always going to agree. However, there is a way to go about disagreeing without being disrespectful. And as a part of good governance, seeking common ground, is always a starting point for dialogue, particularly about those differences. So we want to encourage, people to listen past your preconceptions of what you think somebody, somebody's position is or even if you know their position to be open to try and understand and hear what is being communicated. And civility is also the hard work of staying present, even when there are those deep rooted and fierce disagreements. We also, in the program that I'll share a little bit about, is that we understand that civility is, particularly in the municipal governance space, it is inherently political, not only because it is a pre it is a prerequisite for civic action, but it's also about negotiating that interpersonal power that, so that everyone's voice is heard and that no one is ignored. And a key those are all key components of the Commit to Civility program, which at its core is to help, our local governments, our municipal governments, officials, staffs maintain that healthy communication and mutual respect that's needed for good governance. And, the league's municipal civility program, Commit to Civility, it, is tied on, nine principles or what we call pillars of civility. That one, that communities agree to embrace courtesy and consideration, and that's where we acknowledge, your colleague you acknowledge your colleagues and respectfully, and you welcome feedback from them. Mhmm. That you use the tools of active listening, where you're actively listening to your colleagues, to your constituents, and being doing that courteous thing of not interrupting or formulating a rebuttal before you understand what is being communicated, that you prioritize empathy, which well, we concentrate where you're seeing things from or trying to see things from another person's perspective. And you may not have that lived experience. However, you understand that someone else's experience doesn't mean if it's not yours, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen or it doesn't exist. Right. That we that we ask questions, that you're curious and you ask for clarifications and allow others to complete their responses. And just a few more, kindness, that we'd be kind, that you make your point about the issue, but not about the person. It's so easy to get wrapped up in terms of personalities that we don't like this person or we don't like that person. But if we focus on the issues at hand, that may can make things a little bit easier. That we practice self restraint, where we work to maintain composure at all times. Emotions and and passion can run, pretty high, but that's not always effective. And so we need to encourage people to maintain composure and to not take it personally. And lastly, that anytime that there is incivility that you address it, that our local governments hopefully will be equipped to know the best way to, address those times when things are out of control and to help bring it back, in line.

That's, really important that you addressed upfront that this is not about, you know, like banning disagreement or anything like that. I mean, you know, we we we know we're going to disagree. I mean, we're not gonna walk the same line all the way to the end of the sentence every time. How do we remain in disagreement while staying civil and respectful to one another? Do you have any thoughts on that? You know, does that bring anything to mind for maybe what you've seen in the program so far? Maybe what's on your mind with civility being something that we need to keep on the table and and rehearse and practice?

Absolutely. I love the that phraseology practice, putting it into practice because that is exactly, what the Commit Stability program, aims to do is to provide not only the basic tools, the things that we we already intuitively know in, you know, working in, spaces and being out, with different environments. We know that, respect is important if you want to be able to move things forward. In the Commit to Civility program, we highlight, some statistics that, Pew Research has highlighted that, unfortunately, a high percentage of Americans, I think somewhere between, 80 to 90% of Americans believe that our country is divided, and unfortunately divided by politics and feel, even a large number also feels pessimistic about the ability of our to be able to overcome these issues, of incivility to solve problems that we are facing as a country. And that our municipal leaders, particularly at the local level, they are more and more being looked at to solve the, unfortunately, problems that are not only theirs, but that may not be theirs because there's just an overall frustration. And so, what if we can identify where there are, potential intersections of disagreement with finding common ground, and we're able to step back and take a breath or two. And then use the tools, like I said, of active listening, of just coming in that I may not understand what you are, or have experienced what you are sharing as your issue. Let's stay focused on that so that that is the problem that we're working on and not try to demonize or not try to, devalue what you're saying because I may not agree. Mhmm. Getting away from, human intuition of trying of cognitive dissonance Mhmm. Where if we don't believe that it's true because we don't experience it, then our default position as humans sometimes is to try to say then then that's not true Mhmm. And to then make it personal and then to find ways to pick at, and discredit. And our problems today, are are too large. Some of them are too large for that to be the mode that was never really effective. However, it has been a tool, that has been used, but we now need to understand that if we are to come together to solve these problems, we have to find out how can we get to the core and the root causes of things. And that means doing all those things, as I shared, asking questions, being curious, being empathetic, and being kind, respectful Mhmm. Self restraint, all of those things. And practicing that over and over again so that you can build the muscle memory, so that when it comes to you, it's instinctive versus the other instincts that we have to be defensive or to put up the cognitive dissonance wall. We want to build the muscle memory so that these pillars are what activates so that we can get to problem solving.

It's it's interesting to think about that, from, like, a biological perspective that, you know, like, once we sort of develop a habit of doing certain things a certain way, that that club is easier to get out of the bag. And and you mentioned it too about, you know, polls of people and sort of their confidence in our ability to be, civil. You know, this is something also people on the outside, just, you know, constituents are gonna have thoughts about on their leaders being civil. And so this does become an important program. What what is this you you mentioned a little bit of this, the the pillars and some of the points and, what are the hard pieces of commit disability?

Absolutely. The I'll take the last question first and then, weave into some of the components. Mhmm. The it's a multi step process. The first step, is that recognizing that, communities and particularly municipal boards, that although their individual members are voted in, they stand for election and they're voted in separately. But to be an effective government body, you need to work together as a board. And so, and since the municipal board is the fiduciary and legal entity that's responsible for cities and towns, this program focuses on the board level, not just the individual. So the first step is that each, board member must, take our commit to civility training. Currently, that's offered virtually, virtually live via Zoom. We have we did a class, in June, and we're gonna offer another one in October October 17. So if there are, elected officials out there who are interested in, taking the training, they can come to our website and sign up for the course. It's a two hour course where we go through the things we've talked about here. What is civility? Why is it important? What's happening in the landscape? How is it impacting, municipal governments and municipal leaders? We talk about the nine pillars of civility that I've mentioned here. And, we also talk about self care because as individual leaders who are part of a governing board, you have and you have to be able to work together. And in order to work together, you also have to understand where your triggers are. You have to be able to keep your individual emotions under control. When you are talking on camera or if you're if proceedings or the board meetings are being shown live to your community and something gets heated, you have to be the one, you should be the one to lead the community to show how you choose not to respond, to to events that, to be ineffective and be harmful. And so self care is a part of that. How are you showing up to the board meetings? Mhmm. Are you prepared? Have you gotten enough rest? Are you hydrated? Right. Yeah. How do you distress? How do you, do you go like to take walks? How do you balance everything? So we'd spend a little bit of time talking about individual being able to fully show up and be present for, their board members, for the board, and for their community. So after the training, at least 75% of the board, must complete the training. And once that's achieved, then, each member also as a part of the training, completes a civility pledge, an individual pledge that they will uphold the nine pillars. And there's some other language in there, about agreeing with and promoting, civility in their community. So once 75% of the board and each member has submitted the civility pledge, then, the next step is for the board on behalf of the city or town to adopt a civility commit to civility resolution, which they then are saying to the public that they, as a board, on behalf of the city or town, commit to being a city of a city or town of civility. And the, resolution incorporates the non pillars that we talked about in the class, and any other things that they believe is important for their city or town. And what we in the core in the training that we do, it is virtual, but it's also dialogue. We have breakout rooms, we have conversation, and we have presentation of of the pillars and other things that I've mentioned, that's a part of the curriculum. So once all that's done, 75% of the board completed the training, they've signed the individual pledge, and they've submitted, their commit to civility resolution back to us. They then become a city, commit to civility city, or municipality, and they will be recognized at our 2025, city vision in Greenville. Mhmm. And we hope to have as many communities that are willing to, participate as possible. And, hopefully, if as more cities see each other, getting involved and taking a part of the program, we think that'll be great for for our state as well. And, we'll also do a whole host of promotion like this. Thank you for, again, for for this time, promoting on the website, on social media, and again, as well as at City Vision.

I I would love to see a long list of towns or municipalities that have participated at City Vision. I mean, it's it's it's really cool. I I like what you said about the, you know, kind of looking out for yourself aspect of this, like, not in not in the, you know, taking favors type, you know, sense, you know, but but just taking care of yourself and and making sure you show up primed to be civil. And and I loved, what you said too about the, the the the resolution that gets adopted at an actual meeting to tell the public, you know, like, yes, civility is something, you know, all of us kind of want anyway, but it is a sensitive thing. It's obviously an issue in the public right now, when it comes to their perceptions of government. We're letting you know that we're taking this seriously and we want to be civil. Like, that's a really cool message to to put out there. It's a statement. Yeah. It's it's it's a it's a statement. I mean, are are we seeing that statement being made? Where what what have you seen so far with commit disability?

We've had, two sessions so far, and, they've been well attended. And, unfortunately, due to timing, you know, schedules are always, our members are always busy. Leaders are being pulled in different directions. So, not everybody is able to meet the 75%, so they'll need to wait until the next offering. Yeah. But there's a lot of, interest and energy behind it and getting wanting to get to the stage where they have that commit that public proclamation that, yes, they believe in civility in their community, and this is what they're planning to do and how they're planning to do it. So we're very excited,

about the prospects. That's that's very cool. And and, again, you know, just just kinda going back to, you know, this it it feels like a simple concept. As a concept, I guess, it is. But in practice, yeah, it it it does take some organization like this and and some participation and some self awareness and, you know, it's it Self awareness. Yes. Self awareness. I love that. Definitely. And the and the the the statement at the end, I mean, this is a really cool thing for the public to see, for the people who live in these communities across North Carolina. And I mean, you know, just being a consid a constituent because, you know, as we've been saying, it it can get kinda tense out there too. It seems like this is not just civility among government officials, but this could also be, you know, with people who might be you know, from the public who might be rolling up to a public comment section with a a pretty tense or maybe an emotional issue or a complaint, something didn't work out for them or, you know, just we may have disagreements about how this is gonna gonna go, but we are gonna be civil to each other as we look for an answer together. That's a really cool that's a really cool thing.

Absolutely. And in the training, we also provide, some examples from other leagues around the state of of, tips that they provide to their members as well about, how do you handle those public comment, moments that, may get heated? How do you handle that? And there's some different best practices that municipalities around the country are using, such as, being proactive. Like, if you having a pulse read on what's going on in your community and maybe developing a game plan before, the public comment period and having, prepared a potential prepared statement of how you're gonna handle something that may come to you instead of reacting or not reacting, in the moment, as well as just, also timing of public comment, having one at the beginning or having at the end or having one based off of what's gonna be on the agenda versus, having a public comment where it's open for everybody, maybe not having everything, all in one public comment period. But of course, we also encourage our board members to consult with their attorneys, to make sure that whatever tools that they do use for the public comment period in particular, that, they are not infringing on people's right to free speech, to speak to government. But there are definitely ways to to manage that time that also helps to tamp down any potential,

opportunities for being uncivil. That that that's great because what you said right there, you know, that shows that there are actual takeaways. It's not just, you know, like, restrain your emotions when you feel yourself getting mad. It's not just that. There are ways to express civility instead of just kinda, you know, holding it in and and, like, I'm I'm just gonna, you know, I'm just gonna bite my my tongue and be nice today or something like that. It's that that's not it. Exactly. All of us in our hearts, I think, know what being civil is and we know how to be civil, to each other again in concept. But but having these expressions and these actual, you know, like like hard takeaways, I think really do make this, definitely a worthwhile thing. You know, even for communities where you may not see this as an immediate issue, civility. It's just it's a good thing and there's turnover all the time, you know, with with with boards, new officials get elected, and so on. I mean, it's it's it's a good thing to be able to walk into or be elected into a board that already kinda has, you know, this down pat or at least has had this conversation.

Exactly. That it's part of your it's part of the expectations and it's a part of the municipal culture in that community, that this is how, governance is gonna be comported and undertaken. And you mentioned something about, you know, dialogue. One One of the things we are promoting also in the training, dialogue versus debate. Yeah. Not in the sense of debating. Debating is a part of local government, and elected officials. They are, voted in. They take votes. They part of their job is to show up and vote in debate. That's not the type of debate we're talking about. Debate in terms of a tactic. So we do spend a little bit of time talking about dialogue, the all of the essential ingredients that are needed for productive dialogue, that you are listening. You let people finish their thoughts. You if there's silence, it silence is good versus in debate as a tactic. Silence is used to gain tactical advantage. You don't let people finish their thoughts. You divert tactic of debate to get a tactical advantage. So we want to emphasize, how do you enable dialogue to flourish? And if we focus on that, that also ties into the to the nine pillars and to the foundation of what then is being civil, that you let natural dialogue, authentic dialogue, however comfortable or uncomfortable the conversation is Mhmm. That the grounds are there for it to happen. And so that also is a part of, the commit to civility program. Right. Yeah. I mean, debate can be,

you know, an entertaining thing to spectate on and, you know, there's that, you know, sort of, context of, you know, like, winner and loser with it, who won the debate, I won, oh, no, you didn't. It just, you know, it's Mhmm. It's it's that that's also part of the recognition of, a lack of civility may be something that does seem like it's sort of part of the jungle when it comes to to government. But Right. But it's also recognition that a lack of civility is also a hindrance. So I I I really like the, you know, the the actual thought and structuring that that goes with a program like this. And, you know, I mean, where where do people learn more about it? You know, if someone's listening to this and they maybe we've had it in our newsletters and things like that. We put the word out about it. But, you know, if you're really for, you know, first time thinking about this, where where do people go?

Well, first place, visit our website. We got a new website. Visit, the league's website, www.nclm.org. All website. And, look for the advancing municipal leaders program, and it will be listed there. Or you can, search for it on the website, commit to civility, and it'll bring you to, upcoming the upcoming training as well as providing information about, the program. And, also, you can reach out to myself or my colleague at learning@ncl learning@nclm.org. And, myself or my colleague, Jack Cassidy, will be more than happy to to follow-up with you. Right. So the the the two,

faces of of this program would be you and, and Jack Cassidy also Mhmm. From the league. And, I I think this is great. This is something that I, again, I I hope to see a lot of participation with. And when we get to the next, city vision in, Greenville in 2025, hopefully, we got a a long list of of of communities to honor. I think that would be an awesome thing to see. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Vicky, thank you so much for your time. I really do appreciate this. And, yeah, maybe we'll do a, a follow-up at some point, you know, kinda see how this thing is going and what some of the outcomes are, but, I couldn't be more excited that we're doing this.

Absolutely. And thank you so much,

Ben. Thanks so much for listening. You can learn more about this on our website, nclm.0rg. Again, nclm.0rg. You can type in commit to civility in the search bar up top. That's an easy way to find more info about this program and how to participate, or you can navigate from the menu up top at nclm.org. Click events and training, and then you'll see advancing municipal leaders and what that program offers including commit to civility. I wanna thank you for your interest in this. I wanna thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode today because even though it's a concept we're all familiar with, civility and it's something we all strive for, it's great to have a structure you can apply to it and a familiarity with navigating certain kinds of scenarios and so on. Definitely worth checking out. And, of course, let me know if you have any questions or comments regarding today's discussion. My name is Ben Brown, and you can reach me at bbrown@nclm.org. NCLM stands for North Carolina League of Municipalities Working as One, Advancing All. More online at nclm.0rg. Thank you again, and we'll talk to you on the next one. This is Ben Brown.