G0v Metagov 20230517
Speaker 1: Great. Welcome to this week's Medigoff seminar. The date is 05/17/2023. And today we're joined by Noah and Frank, who are from DAO Zero. So it's been really fun getting to meet them and see how their work intersects with the Gov Zero project based out of Taiwan and to kind of see all the people that had been in their group integrating and connecting with MediGov. So I'll let the...
Top Keywords
- taiwan 0.015
- zero 0.014
- different 0.010
- projects 0.007
- community 0.006
- dynamic delegation 0.006
- material 0.006
- three 0.006
- metagoff 0.006
- stack 0.005
- noah 0.005
- delegation 0.005
Transcript
Great. Welcome to this week's Medigoff seminar. The date is 05/17/2023. And today we're joined by Noah and Frank, who are from DAO Zero. So it's been really fun getting to meet them and see how their work intersects with the Gov Zero project based out of Taiwan and to kind of see all the people that had been in their group integrating and connecting with MediGov. So I'll let the presenters today do a brief introduction to themselves. Then we'll have a twenty minute presentation followed by moderator discussion. I'll be moderating today. I'm sent community lead with MediGov. And if you wanna speak during the moderator section, you can either type stack in the chat or raise your hand or say I wanna speak, or you can also type your questions during the presentation and after, and I can either call on you to speak them or read them aloud if you prefer. And as people are doing in the chat right now, continue just to say hi, where you're from, what you're working on. It's great to get to meet everyone here. So with that, I'll pass over to Noah who will help move the conversation along. Thanks, everyone, for attending.
Thank you, Sam, and thank you thank you, Riley, for for putting this together. We're we're very excited to to be here. So let me share my screen. One sec. Can you guys see my screen? The presentation? K. Perfect. K. Okay. So I'll I'll just go go like this. So so, basically, my name is Noah. My my colleague is Frank. So we're both from this project called DAO Zero. DAO Zero has a lot of subprojects under it. And on the other hand, we're also part of this big community in Taiwan called GovZero. So I'm going to give a short introduction of what GovZero and GovZero does. And, Frank will probably, present some examples that how GovZero and GovZero can work with Medigov in terms of research, in terms of, every single, every different aspects of collaborations possible. We're definitely looking forward to to, doing something together with the with with you guys, for sure. So we we start from Gov Zero because Gov Zero has been a organization that's been around for ten years since 02/2012. And it it started ten years ago as a as a decentralized organization without calling the DAO and and everything. But now they've shifted we we've basically shifted the narrative into a multicenter civic collaboration experiment and multi centered community in Taiwan. What it does tell this day, I was looking at the numbers. There are 12,000 participants on on Slack. Of course, not everyone is is active, but the number just keeps going up. I think for the past couple of months, it went up, like, a thousand again. And the other thing that the Gov Zero constantly do is they do bimonthly hackathons. So up until now, I think there are 50 to 60 hackathons that's been done in Taiwan already. There are a lot of hackathon proposals. Most of the proposals turn turn into a Slack channel, and people basically form discussions and form understanding there. So the these are the the the kind of this this is the, basically, the the the image of what comes here looks like. So for the past ten years, I think it's very interesting World Cup Zero has accomplished. It it it it it build up a very interesting culture. One of the example is, duocracy. Right? So, we also call it, dynamic delegation. So whoever takes action, basically, they make decision. They they they, and that's how decisions are made. We never Gov Zero has never voted. Gov Zero has never really made a a decision as a at some point, it the the closest thing that got to a group decision was if Gov Zero or somebody proposed if Gov Zero should be a political party. But that basically that that didn't go through with us, so then you never get to a get get to the level of voting somehow. So that's the decision making aspects, the dynamic, the the interaction aspects of how communities get things done. I think that's a very import very interesting part of Gov Zero. And Gov Zero, for the past ten years, there are a couple of more, more and more more popular, more famous, well known, projects. One of them is vTaiwan. So what vTaiwan does is this deliberation, a policy deliberation platform that gets all citizens to participate in in in making suggestions for policies. And one of the the officials or politicians or the champions of this, who is our government official, will take their suggestions into the government and present that among people saying that this is what the people think. Right? So that also so one of the case was the Uber contractor case in Taiwan. So that was one of the more famous cases that this the deliberation system did did did something that made a change. There are during COVID, there were mass maps that's being built by the community together. So what the the starting point was that the community wanted to open up government data. So they did a lot of different hacking, different different in the end, it becomes more collaborative. But in in the beginning, it was more hacking. It was more like, we want to the people want to know more. But in the end, the more collaborative part, one of the examples during COVID, there are multiple mask maps that get people help people understand where they can get masks and also how much how many masks are are still in the pharmacies and all that stuff. And there are other projects like fact fact checking platforms and all that. So there are a lot of things that's being done for the past ten years, so that's also very interesting. I think I will say a little bit about Taiwan as a as a as a as a field for for civic innovation or community innovation experimentation because Taiwan, of course, is a open, very democratic society. On the other hand, we have a very interesting political situation. So civic participation is very how do I say this? Not aggressive, but but very, very, very active. And we do have a lot of government support in terms of making civic movements, making this community this participate participatory democracy in a sense. So there are a lot of things we can do there. So, on in the beginning of, by end of last year, we did a research on what are the challenges of Gov Zero. And, of course, like all communities, the challenges, there's no challenge in terms of people coming up with with projects, people leading the projects because these people have, first, have a lot of passion, and, secondly, they probably have some alignment in life with specific projects. The the the the the challenge the challenging part is how do they incentivize others to come to participate in their projects in a more sustainable way without paying them. Right? So this is all all all voluntary community and and and and stuff. So our at Thousand Year, we thought of we we thought of Web three technology, blockchain technology as a as a as a mechanism design and as a as a system that can help incentivize individuals to contribute. So we the first mission we had, it was to build incentive goals in the in the corporate world. It's probably salaries and and and stocks. But what would it be like in the public space public public goods space? So we we we did a couple we're we're testing out funding. We're testing out reputation systems, all that that people are already exploring. So these are some of the projects that that we did. Studio zero on the top left corner is a fund where where where we're doing to buy back. I'm not entirely sure if you guys are familiar with Hyperserts. HyperSearch is a is a is a retroactive a retroactive funding system built by created by Procolapse. So we're part partnering with Procolapse to bring this mechanism into Taiwan, into nonprofits, journalism, education, into government funding allocations, all that different stuff. So we're basically making a demonstration on this front. The the second one is called ShoutOut, and ShoutOut is basically how do we use it's kinda like praise. I think you guys heard about the the praise product before. But how do we use a positive feedback system, peer to peer feedback system to each other to build a record of what are the contributions of each individual inside this community. We did podcast. We we do classes in one in the best universities in Taiwan about how Web three can help impact. And under it, these are some of the some of the events that that we did in the past year. And going forward, a couple of things are happening this year. So the biggest direction we're taking of course, we're still working on how do we incentivize DAO members, contributors, those individuals to go to go forward. But the other bigger projects we had this year, one is about decentralized identity. How do we bring that into Taiwan? How do we make experience in it in Taiwan? The other one is DAO. How how do DAO how do governors work? How do I think there is a lot of alignment with MediGov. We're also testing out impact certificate, Russia IT funding, with, Propelapse. And funding commons and Plurati Asia are the bigger events that we will be hosting this year. But in general, I think both Gov Zero and Taiwan is a very good field for experimentation in terms of communities, governance, decentralized organizations. So our model is simply just bring these global theories, experiments, or or thoughts into Taiwan and to build a a a use Taiwan as a field for experimentation and then explore success cases or learnings. So that that's probably also how we might be able to work with Medigold as well. And from here, I will hand it over to Fred to say a little more about how he thinks we might be able to work with you guys.
Sure. Thank thank you, Noah. So I'm Frank. I I am a medical doctor. I put my effort I I put my interest in Web three for about two years, and now I'm currently as a contributor in DAO zero. So today, I'll mainly introduce two study groups focused on Web three in Taiwan, and I'll and one is DAO zero learning and the other is Web three for all. And I'll focus more on DAO zero learning because it is the it it has been long enough since the DAO zero initiated. So I really like the format of this study group because we we, we often choose two books to pair greetings. And one is, can be belongs to the Web three world, and the others might be considered as traditional knowledge. And we also choose two people to to guide the discussions, and we we want to, like, to to choose the people from non Web three world and to claim the the material from the Web three world and vice versa. So on the right side, it is the the material we choose since the DAO zero learning events. Like, first, we we choose the metaverse with the narrow rider to to use it at a first event to introduction to to to introduce the metaverse and how the network how the state and society work together. And the second time, we we read utopia of of rules and pair with the metallic two, small study sessions like DAOs and our cooperation and the convex and concave disposition. And and this the second study group is called Web three four o, and it was named before our smart law meetup because it is from a lot of lawyers, which is interest interesting in the regulation in the tech, including blockchain, AI, and privacy. And and from about, last year, they tried to read more about the plurality, and so they renamed themselves to Web three for all and welcome all people to join to discuss about Web three. And sometimes these two study groups will join together like the the ones in in the, in the last, which we, read two books. The first is the palace for the people, which is discussed about the social infrastructure, And the other is the future art ecosystems three to discuss about the art in the how to how to use decentralized tool to to build our infrastructure. And last month, the the project we read is Metagoth projects. We try to understand Metagoth projects because you guys have have done so many great projects, and we try to understand by looking the material online, including your website, your medium newsletter, your your slide, your your Slack. And we know and which we we we found out that we try to focus more about how Metagoff was how your projects was progressed to to become this. We try to narrow it down into the three track. And I'm not sure it is to to to simply or not, but we try to use as a workshop to understand different projects in Metagoff and to let our community to understand Metagoff more. So we we make it to know about tech tools and, for example, like the Metagoff gateway and policy heat. And the the other is, the the second one is about the the Airtable they have based and which is mainly, built by the Gulf based teams. And the third one is the proposal and which is, the main the main purpose by the team. So but it it I think the all all three three of the stems all comes from the modular politics. So this is our next study sessions material. One is modular politics, and the other one is the the tyranny of of the unstructuredness, which will happen in tomorrow. So I think this is our the study group here in DAO zero learning. Okay. So, can you be thank you. So this is the potential collaboration we consider because after, introduced the Metagov project into DAO zero, many people are interested in, like, for example, in DAO star, like, how to build an API for Dao. You know, there's a ERC 40 four eight twenty four, which is the common interface for Daos. And other than that, there are more than this ERC four eight two four. Although it all documented in the GitHub, but we some of some of our community want to engage in this process. And the other things that a lot of people's interest in DAO star is we know it it is we want to build a multi channel DAO standard, and some of our communities are familiar with their customers chain. And the other people in our community are interested in, like, the DAO tool because Noah had mentioned we build a a incentivized system in Slack called ShoutOut. And I think after reading the policy kit about how to engage different platform, different different spec, different tools together. I think Shado is kind of like a small part of this policy kit, and we try to engage or understand or collect more about the Dow tooling as a study material. And because last week last month, some of our community member joined to go to Japan to join the DAO Plurati Tokyo, and they find that a lot of local revitalization community has you the Web three tool like the DAO to to help the local revitalization, and it kind of works. And we try to bring it in in Taiwan, and I think it is a a great start in DAO zero or, like, a great start to use web three tool to hear more about web one or web two world. So there are some connections has already happened here. Like, we we we talk about these in in this today's session. Thanks to Riley's connection. And we we have joined about, I think it's the last week, Dow Stars Asian meetup, and we we meet Sony. And after after the Dao Star meetup, we we have another session with her. And then he she might come to visit Taiwan next month and to establish more events about Asia Asia Asia's DAO community. So this is the potential collaboration we think together. So about the so I think this is the the the the final slides. I I think that the vibing, in Taiwan about rep three is is is is really good. I and and as as mentioned as Noah mentioned before, we have some targets want to want to do in in this year. Like, my part will be engaged in the DAO track more, And we we try to make the onboarding web three knowledge to public more accessible. Like, after reading not only the module of politics, we found that a lot of DAO is focused more about the cooperation principle, how to how to cooperation well. So it it might have to also to let people to know more about, like, the old strong's IAD analysis or the social solidarity economy. And then we'll more discuss about the different layer, the different level of DAO, the the different characteristic of DAO. And then we might need to collect the different DAO tools in around the world. And during the process, we want to build the Taiwan or maybe the Asian narrative for DAO. So this might generate some formal study report or some formal analysis and even the formal policy proposal in Taiwan. So I think the first first needed is for for us, we might looking for some consultants. And I think Medigap is really the the place we we can find because all of these these things you've done before are are so great and are in are so in in track, and and I think it is a great, great way to build connection between DAO zero and Metagov. So I think it is. Thank thank you, everyone.
Great. Thank you so much, Frank and Noah. A really interesting overview of down zero and also, how you're thinking of, like, the kind of relationship between the two organizations and the work that they're doing. Great. So let's open it up for discussion. I'm gonna, turn to Henrik first who had a question earlier about the relationship between culture and delegation. So, Henrik, do you want to give voice to that?
Yeah. I think it was more I mean, I'm I'm terribly interested in this and a great presentation. Thank you. But but you suggested that there was a correlation, as I heard it, between delegation and direct participation and how it affects culture. I'm not sure you meant it, but I was sort of, like, intrigued because that's sort of what I think is really cool. So can you elaborate on that?
Yeah. Of course. So one one thing is that we don't like I said, Gov Zero or Gov Zero, we don't vote on things. Right? We don't make decisions as a as a as a big group. We basically say that everything is open source and everything is workable. So everyone can so I think one of the key activities in those zero for the past ten years is the bimonthly hackathons. And during the hackathons, the format is very simple that everyone can go out there and make a proposal and see if other people wants to join. And then we will spend a whole day or two days to to to work on these projects. And I think one of the so there had been, like, cases where within a project, they may have went on for maybe a couple of months and, they had a argument on how this project can can go forward. Then at that at that point, if they, if they someone decides to fault the project, they basically take all the code base on it, basically take all the projects. Whereas in our direction, they can just fork it. And everyone will be okay with that. That's part of contact. We got everyone. If you want to start a project in Gunzio, you it has to be open source, and everyone can forget.
Okay. Okay. So so if I define culture as a mechanism to create knowledge in a group formation, which then creates innovation, which then creates disruption. That that's sort of how I think about culture. Not not a ethnographic way of doing it, but more like an evolutionary thing. But if you have a strong culture with storytelling or knowledge distribution or help in a way which is not like a help desk, but they're, like, a contribution focused knowledge. How does that work in your system?
So sorry. Can I say a little more? Like,
what I What what I what I what I hear is it's very transactional, but I may be wrong. It's not like you are you are you are facilitating a process that leads to a transaction of something. Not not not a a true sort of cultural evolutionary thing. Is that right?
Sorry. Transactional in in what sense?
Well, like, what I heard is that you you you make a deal, or you you you I I don't know how to phrase it. It I mean, you suggest that by delegating authority, you can, impact culture. And I was wondering what is culture in this respect?
Oh, okay. I think the the it it may be some some somewhere inside the so, Frank, if you wanna if you if you have something to add, please please go ahead. But I think the the the culture is the the transparency and the the of everything and the the respect people people give to each other. That's probably data. Right? But but whoever takes the action make the decision, and no no one else will basically say much about that. And the other one is, is truly a representative of Kazuya because every it can go any direction that people think is appropriate. So there's one saying in dub zero that might be interesting, and and that model resonates with so many, which is don't ask why nobody is doing something. You are the nobody. Right? So that's the that's the model people always talk about. And I think that in terms of that that culture or that model really do resonate with a lot of people and what people holds dear to heart. I'm not even sure if I did answer your question, but if we talk about our culture, we talk about our model and the things we believe in.
Yes. That's fine. Thank you. Thank you so much. Right. Send Thanks
to you.
I think this is a great questions. And due to the Gulf 0, it has been about ten years. And there's a lot lot of, like, representative questions, and they they have some on some fight. And but they are encouraged to to fork if you are not not allowed or not didn't like their consents made by most of us. You can fork the project, and you can recruit your own crew, and you can build it. So if you have more success, you might merge to the to the main branch. And I think it is somehow called the digital activism. And luckily, in in Gulf 0, there are some anthropos anthropologist anthropologist researchers to to study these as her her her main material. And there's I will post a link about her study to to elaborate more about the dilemma between, Gulf 0 in these ten years.
Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you. So I think Riley is next up talking about kind of dynamic delegation.
Yeah. I'm I'm happy to just, like, ask the question. Also, hi. Yeah. I I think the dynamic delegation system is really interesting, like, the way these communities are able to successfully move without formal voting mechanisms. Like, that was something that I found, like something that really stuck out to me when I was meeting with you all. And I was wondering if you had, like, more examples or, like, if you have any, like, favorite case studies of this style of governance. And I'm also kinda curious, like, how it came about. Like, was it a conscious decision, or was it just, like, naturally what happened? And, yeah, if you have more, like, information or context about how this dynamic delegation system has been working in various, like, groups or over the
years? Yeah. I I think because, Gov. Joe started as a as a open source community, and their original belief that when when he first started 10 ago was that government data shall all be public. Right? Shall all be all be open sourced. So given that context and given that open source mindset, I think this is how a lot of the decisions has been a lot of the the code of conduct has been been been made over the years. And they were or, like I said, they were originally chasing after this this this ideal of four four decentralization at some point. But in the end, they we at some point, Dub Zero did figure out that full decentralization is not probably not realistic in a solution transition to to multi centered multi centered mindset. So leadership in this context is still very important. But I think there are a couple of, very different kinds of leadership in Gov Zero or in Gov Zero as well. There are mainly two different kinds of leadership. One is, action led. Right? So you take action. You basically make something happen. That's one kind of leadership. And the other kinds of leadership, is the supporting function. And the the the the function that provide resources, the function that provides that builds the fundamental social fabric. The hackathons the bimonthly of hackathons is actually another way of building this social fabric under it. It's a group of people believing the same vision, but there are so many different projects doing so many different things, maybe like MetaGov as well. But there are no one person saying that we should go towards this direction or we should go towards that that direction. There are a lot of conversation and there are all of these conversations are all are all being being written down, recorded, and everyone can look up everything. That's the myself open source, but but but the leadership aspect of this dynamic delegation or of this is quite interesting. Personally, I'm not a 100% that familiar with. I'm not sure if Frank is familiar with how how it works or maybe you can say more.
About Black Point, I think there's in our study group, there there's in I think in Web three four last time, and a lot of us joined different different world different events in different world, and they all bring back together, and they try to share what they saw, what they think. And the founder of Litecoin is also oh, also there, and I think Riley has met met him before in the the d web twenty twenty and also in the the bookstore in Taiwan. And I'm really interested in the dynamic delegation or or what you call the liquid delegation, which, is just like a staking mechanism. And I'm not sure is there any other DAO tools DAO toolings which is developing now to use the staking mechanism to to, like, to to boost the the project or to hold the project by the staking amount. Yeah. I think it is a cool idea to put the dynamic delegation in in the community or in the project manager level other than the the divide or proposal level. I think it is a kind of like the to use the the the idea of these these dynamic delegation to different different tools.
Thank you, Riley. I think, you know, maybe on the kind of, some of the points that Moe was making, some of the the there might be some resonance with what Josh was talking about in the in the chat. I don't know if, Josh, if you wanna come off and and talk about that a little bit or if it was more of just a side comment.
Hi. Yeah. So I'm really excited about what you guys are doing and the kind of the energy in the com zero, DAO zero community. The since a lot of the presentation by the way, you guys can hear me. Right?
Yep. No problem. Okay.
Great. Sorry, Edna. I might sneeze in the middle because I have truly the most terrible allergies right now.
So a
lot since a lot of those sort of comments are about, you know, engaging between our communities, whether it'd be, like, around consulting or figuring out, you know, reading respective materials. One of the things that I'll just briefly mention. One of the things I brought up in the kind of last, I think, was DAO start conversation was figuring out ways of, you know, translating and understanding the ideas coming from Taiwan and Asia, making those communicating those to Western audiences rather than, you know, right now having documents written up in the West and then having them exposing them to Asia. I think there should be a productive exchange of some sort. The second thing that, you know, more abstract is how can we how do we actually facilitate this? Because MediGov is, you know, is relatively decentralized. There's lots of different researchers working out different things. Right? It looks like the same thing is going on in Gov Zero and dows zero. These are relatively decentralized kind of weak networks. What's the most effective way of actually, you know, cross pollinating or linking up these research networks? To me, it's not totally obvious how that happens. And maybe just if you guys have thoughts on this.
Rick, do you wanna take that first?
I think this is the questions we we we we started to to to understand the the the the the series of this because as more member join in DAO DAO zero and different people want to to build different things, there there might some connection. But, actually, to to between the efficiency or maybe to incentivize more other than the funding, I think it is I mean, it is still had no best solution for for this, I guess. So so for me, I'm really, like, how about how how you solve in in Metagoth? Like, how you incentivize different projects? I think I think I I've read in the the community pub pub, and I think they are start of, like, the active, not on inactive, and the the and and the one who is just not not following enough. Oh, I think I I really want to, like, to know more about, like, in in the in inactive group, like, how how you restart the the program or or just, like, make others to join the more active groups to to put the efficacy more about the ongoing tracks. And so so for me, this is my questions for for MetaGov because I think in DOW zero, after maybe about in half of half year, we might to to have the similar questions too.
Yeah. From from my part, I think everything started I think things seems to be coming together when it comes to, like, different DAOs in in Asia. We've we we went to Japan. We went to Tokyo for an event called Plurality Tokyo last, I think, last month. And we, since then, we've been talking to DAOs from, Korea, talking to DAOs from from, from China. So there are there are a lot of, like, different, different DAOs, but all hoping to form a a collective narrative of what Asian DAO DAO looks like. But I think for all of these, the starting point has always been physical events for some reason. And in this physical event, of course, there's gonna be exchange of thoughts and and all that, but I think the most important thing is the exchange of energy and momentum and the belief that we we all are are doing something that that's meaningful. And so to me to meet, DAOZYO is also hosting priority Taipei. We're going to invite different DAOs from all different all all different Asia con countries to come to become Taiwan. End of year, we will be cohosting Fundive Thomas with, protocol apps in Taiwan as well. So these are the the bigger two events that's going to happen in Taiwan. And I I do we are talking to Glenn Weil as well. Maybe he's probably going to visit Taiwan and and Tokyo early next year. That's still still to be confirmed, but but we did get that message from him and probably going to host some some of these events. So these kind of physical events that connects everyone and exchange thoughts in a more efficient way and build trust. I think, personally, I think that will be the starting point of building relationship between all these all all these styles, in Asia, if that answers part of the question, I guess.
I don't know if you wanna respond. I feel like you're doing really some questions also oriented in this direction. But then if not, we can kind of follow-up with additional questions in the chat. Okay. So, yeah, there are there are, like, other questions there about, like, the the kind of, working groups and, like, kind of active inactive status. I think that's something that we're also still thinking through. So we'd be very happy to chat about that outside of the seminar. One question that I had, this is just like a it's a I wasn't sure if you were when you were talking about the pairings that you were doing. Were you pairing the Medigold project with Benjamin Bratton's the stack, or, like, was the stack in reference to something else?
I think it is if I've before we paired with the material, we we have we will scan through each material first. And I think what we scan for Medigap is we we've we've found the world's, like, Medigap want to build a governance layer of of DAO or of of the community. I think we just focus more on the this the layer of things. And we and somebody told us, like, oh, the the the the stack is emphasized on the different layers of different things. So I think we it might be a good good pair. But after the event, we found that, maybe it's not a a a good pair, but but it's still we learn a lot of things from these two material.
Yeah.
You say a little more about, like, what kind of some of the conversation that came up in comparing I mean, like, I'm curious what parts of Medigap were you comparing with Bratton's the stack, which, like, which elements of the the six layers were you interfacing with, and, like, what were some of the conversations? What were some of the learnings? I'd also love to read, like, notes if there are any from these. And, yeah, I mean, I'm just really I I've I've long thought that this that the work that that Medica was doing would be interesting to read alongside the stack, even if there's a lot of things to talk about with both of those with with the stack, but I'm just curious to learn more, like, what kind of conversations happened when you with that pairing.
I think for more detailed detailed, the context, I might need to look up the the documentation for our reading reading sessions because I'm I was mainly focused on the the the Medigolf part, and the the stack part was host by the other person. And but the discussions was more focused on, like, the the the different projects in Metagov. So, indeed, we we didn't pair the material. I think this is a critic critic of this this event. Like, if we we want to pair these two material, but we didn't pair good enough and and form a great conversation or a great discussion about the mirror the mirror relationship between these material good enough. And we try to bring more concise to like, we we we focus more about the the relationships with the two material more. So we choose the the module politics and the tyranny of structure this this time because other than these two material, we want to talk more about how how these two guys think about the different guys they propose. Like, this is this is the new thing we try to to try to build the next time.
Yeah. Interesting. I mean, yeah, it's it's it's kind of tricky taking a list of projects and then treating that as, like, a book and comparing it to a book written by a single author. But, yeah, I just thought that was a really interesting pairing and one that I've thought would make sense for a while. So if you if you haven't, I I think I see that there's some notes that were shared here. So excited to look through those.
But I think I found the the the old version of Metagoff. There's some material, the the the slides. And I found that there's a, like, Metagoff stack. Like, the first one is Metagoff core, and the second two the second one is policy kit, and the third one is agreement engine. I think it is like the the core concept of Metagath, but it is a little bit I'm not sure it is out of date or it had become more complex. Like, the the different layer has become more or other than it is just three layers. And the three layers has emerged to different different projects. But the the timeline or the the layer is a good way to know about not only the community projects or more about, like, the people or or what you're doing. I think it is a great, great framework to know more about one things.
Yeah. I mean, I think I I think I know the presentation you're talking about, I think is a little old at this point, but I think one of the kind of big differences in that conception of the stack and and Bratton's is Bratton's is much more at the conceptual level, and and that the stack that you're referring to is much more about, like, how the tools relate to each other. But it would be interesting. I think I think Nathan was doing some things recently about kind of rethinking and, like, what, like, a kind of more recent version of a governance stack in the context of Medica might look like. I don't know how far he got with that. But, yeah, I think yeah. That would be interesting to pursue at some point, potentially. I
can say something a little bit about this. Yeah. I I find it a little that's true. Well, I don't even know where that presentation is. I I also vaguely remember this. It is quite old or old in the context of MediGove, which has evolved quite a bit to the past few years. The actually, Luke Luke Miller was originally working on a it's called, like, a giant integration project to connect different pieces of things that we're all working on in meta gov. So, like, projects like the gateway, agreement engine, community rule, DAO star, some stuff that, like, Shauna was working on previously, some of the data science that's in GovBase as well that Seth does. Ultimately, I think that was, like, too much for one person to carry, But we had lots of conversations about how to stick these together into something that looked a little bit more like a stack rather than just a loose bag of related projects. And, actually, I will be very likely working on something similar. So, hopefully, you know, there'll be an updated presentation that you can take a look at and see if this makes sense. But I yeah. Thank you for taking a look and reminding me that there once was talk of a mega stack, and maybe eventually in the future, there could be as well.
I think it is the it is the the the real beginning of mega golf, and there are some videos on YouTube, and I watched them. And I I searched for the searched for the the URL, and I found it I found the the the slide itself, and and and it still works. And I think, wow. I think I found the the the old version, but it is the the the the one that Metagoth want to at at least at first want to want to build or want to achieve. And I think although it might change, but it is the cool the the cool things that why Metagoth is building. And and and I I really glad I found found that even in stock or the different the the old version of the the the color, like, the the the web, the the the black color. And I think that that I think it's still a a good great piece to find in a network.
Yeah. Please. I don't even know where that is anymore, but if you find it, please post it. I would love to take a look at the old, the old doc.
We're coming up on the last couple minutes here. Frank or Noah, I mean, I you know, and some other folks here have shared links to the the notes and the when the meetings are happening, and I can post about those in the the the Slack. But is there anything else that you wanna share or other kinds of ways of, activities maybe that you're hosting that you wanna invite, folks on this call and Medigap to, or just anything else where we can, like, learn more about your work and kind of start our own digital archaeology practices and journeys.
Yeah. I I can say a little bit more, and I'll let Frank close close for this. But I think the like I said previously, I our model is basically bringing international global experiments into Taiwan and to explore results. And so there are a couple of things that maybe maybe maybe it will be possible. If, for example, if people here are interested in Gov Zero, then Gov Zero will be a will be a community to help either collect collect data or do field research or run experiments inside in Taiwan or in Dub 0 and to explore results, that's a possibility. And, also, if you if there are, like, tools or standards or stuff that people wanna try, we are we are also hoping to import more or at least bring the discussion into the into the into the the capabilities to further discuss the possibility and give feedbacks. So these are the couple of things that we think may may go forward. We do have researchers, sociologists, archaeologists in in the community, so there can be collaborations on this front as well. So, Fred, do you wanna ask add anything?
The other I'm really grateful for all the great documentation documentation by not only Medigoff or, like, different video recorded at the events. Like, I really like the the the West World Parliament in DWeb by the Metagoff. I think it influenced me a lot, like, in the the woods and a lot of people talking about high-tech, but in the really nature natural side. And for me, I think I I'm only hop in web three about these about these two this year. And what had happened before, without documentation, I cannot catch up all these, the great process and the the great material and why it built right now. So for me, I think I really enjoyed the process to dig in one community, one person, or or or or anything like that. So I am looking forward for the collaboration, and thank you very
much. Great. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming today and presenting. Really interesting and stimulating discussion. So as is tradition, I'll invite everyone on the count of three to unmute and give our speakers a round of applause. Three, two, one.
Okay.
It's evolved over time to incorporate sounds and eventually it'll all just be a screaming into the void, right, kind of vibe. So great, now end the recording there, thanks to everyone who watched today and visit the medigap.org/seminar if you wanna see more about future seminars.