Welcome to Tech Talk. Bye.

Thank you. I'm excited that I got invited back. This is a good day for me. You're always invited back, and congratulations

Yes. I am happy to. So, as our as our the name of our organization suggests, the Center for Democracy and Technology, we think that fair and equitable governance is essential to having a thriving democracy. But we also think that this can be achieved in part by supporting the responsible use of data technology that improves outcomes, not only for the public good, but also for individuals. And at the same time, we're equally obsessed with making sure that it doesn't come at the expense of the privacy and civil rights of individuals. So in order to achieve that that that balance and that sweet spot of having data technology work for, citizens, we are launching this new project, and our goal is to advance privacy forward policies and practices that promote the equitable and responsible use of data and technology that are governed by public agencies.

Yeah. It's a good question, given how, ambitious our vision is. So I'll answer it by saying, we're going to organize our work around three key tactics. And these are similar tactics that we use when we launched the student privacy project. So if you've been following our work there, they will sound familiar. But when it comes to the equity and civic technology project, we are gonna do three things. The first thing that we're gonna do is provide balanced advocacy that both promotes the responsible use of Dan technology while protecting the privacy and civil rights of individuals. And so our advocacy is going to focus on how you do both of those things. The second thing that we're gonna do is we want to create solutions oriented policy resources. And it's really important that these resources are grounded in the problems that currently confront policymakers and civil servants as well as the technology providers who work with them. So our goal is really to, put out resources that that, orient policy, decisions and practices around, what will actually work and meet the needs of some of the diverse stakeholders that will plan on convening. And then the third thing that we plan on doing is offering technical guidance that can be adapted and implemented. And the reason for that is, you know, a lot of times in public agencies, they may lack some of the technical capacity and resources and expertise that we have at CDT. And so we wanna take that knowledge and and help translate that, for those practitioners to take the balanced advocacy and the policy resources and translate that into technically, what does that mean we need to do? And so across those three things, that is how we will we will approach and orient our work, starting at the highest level around advocacy and getting all the way into the weeds when it comes to technical guidance.

Well, I think, I would, suggest that we are both, cautiously optimistic, but also maintain a degree of skepticism and vigilance about the use of data and technology. And, you know, the the focus of this project is really looking at public agencies and how they're using data and technology. And a number of public agencies exist, and their mission is about meeting the needs of individuals and how they can support the public good. So just as data and technology have transformed many aspects of our lives, we have that same potential to revolutionize government to better serve individuals. At the same time, there are a number of stories of how data and technology have been misused by government and maybe, not been used in the interest of of individuals. And so at this project, we wanna really focus on how you reap the benefits and and get the most out of data and technology, but it can't come at the expense of the rights of individuals. I Sure. So Sure. So, you know, one of the the projects that has really, led to the creation of this team and is will continue to be a main focus of of the work moving forward is, how this is playing out in the education sector. And and and no moment have we felt more acutely the role of data and technology, than during the pandemic, especially with the rapid shift to online learning and that for students to continue to receive, you know, even just basic instruction and basic services, technology played a role that was front and center. And at the same time, never have we felt more acutely the risk of data and technology that of the pandemic. And there were, you know, numerous stories of Zoom bombing, which, you know, maybe started off as being kind of funny, but, you know, in in in some of the cases, we're actually inflicting trauma on students when someone who was not on who who should not have been authorized was able to enter into an online classroom and expose students to inappropriate or harmful materials or, you know, students were able to to bully each other in these, settings where, you know, controls weren't sufficiently locked down. There was also a story in North Carolina where, because of the way that they had transitioned to online learning, they were using a student's legal name instead of their preferred name. And so inadvertently, we're outing students who are transgender. So, you know, you can see, you know, the the both sides of the coin here where, data and technology, you know, will play a central role. And even in our research, it shows that both among parents and among teachers, they really do support a continued focus, and they see value in online learning even after the pandemic ends. But the pandemic has also increased concerns in these areas too. And so the charge moving forward is, again, to make sure that data and technology are are working in the interests of of individuals and in education, you know, students and families, but also being really vigilant in guarding against the risk of how that those same tools can be used against people.

Yeah. So I think if you look at the the history of of data and technology, and how it's been used by public agencies, you'll see kind of an evolution of of what they have been concerned about. It started with really being concerned about security, and so that means, like, technically locking down and preventing access to, sensitive information. And sensitive can be defined broadly or differently depending on the sector, but, you know, those are the the things that you put in place and the tactics you use to make sure that, you know, someone who shouldn't have access to something cannot access it. And then I think from there, we've seen a growing focus on privacy. And so privacy is about is about policies, it's about values, it's about making decisions about, you know, who really should have access to information and how do you protect an individual's rights to make decisions about what is shared about them. And then where we are now is increasingly, you know, extending beyond just conversations of privacy to wrestle with what are, you know, even more challenging questions of of what is responsible and what is ethical and what is right. And I think that that that is increasingly the challenge that public agencies are facing is that something can be, secure technically secure. Maybe the information is even kept private, but how they use them and and what does it mean to use information ethically, and in the interest of of of people is is is pretty subjective. But, really, when you listen to the concerns that you hear from, individuals about how information is being used, a lot of them fall into, not not necessarily security or privacy, but using information responsibly. And I think this project, you know, is in is in part, looking at not just what does it mean to keep something secure, what does it mean to to keep something private, but what does it mean to use data and and technology equitably and responsibly? And so really moving beyond just privacy and security grapple with some of those questions that our public agency peers are are increasingly grappling with too.

Indeed. And that's know that I answered the second part of your question, which is how do we hope to confront things? Yes. And, I'll say process wise, I think we hope to confront them with with humility and with a lot of respect for the work that public agencies are doing, and to really look at the kind of guardrails that they can put in place to make it more likely than not that they use, data and technology responsibly and ethically. And so some of those things are, included, but but not limited to, you know, engaging, folks in the community about whom they're they are collecting data and engage them in conversations and decisions around how they want to see it used, being transparent about about what kind of data and technology initiatives they're pursuing, what kind of data they're collecting, how they're keeping it safe. Oftentimes, public agencies are not transparent about that. And it's not always because they have something to hide. It's just not always at the top of their list of priorities, but it's really important to support responsible data use. We're also gonna look at issues of of governance, including how, you know, decisions are made about the data that's being collected, how long it's kept, what it's used for, but also other governance issues, like how do you set policy priorities and decide what you wanna use DAM technology for? How do you support procurement as part of that? That? So it really is a pretty broad range of issues that we hope to tackle, but it is also the same issues that public agencies are are tackling right now. We want to find ways to, be critical and supportive partners of them, as they they try and strike this right balance between, using data technology for good, and also not sacrificing the rights of individuals in the process.

and and how you plan on accomplishing that? Yeah. So I have a lot of hopes for 2021. For this podcast, I will keep it focused on the equity into the technology project. But I think, you know, this being our our first year to stand up this, this, team and this project, you know, my first hope is that we learn a lot. You know, I I worked in in government for five years, and that was one of the things I learned, immediately. No no matter how long I had spent working with states, it does not replace this the experience of being a public servant. And so I will, enter, into this space with that same kind of, growth mindset, really wanting to learn from folks who have been working in this space and and listening to and hearing from, you know, experts and leaders in this in this area and how we can provide the most value. And, my other hope is that by the end of 2021, we will have answered some of the questions that you raised today, and we'll be finding ways to build on, you know, the good work that we have done in education and, expand some of that same approach, to be, critical friends and resources and partners, as public agencies grapple with some of these questions that, are certainly not going away and are only growing in importance.

Absolutely. Thank you, Jamal. And I will, hopefully be on here again, and thanks for the the the follow-up invitation.