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So, the future modern cooperative is a pretty interesting project that's, that I've come across, and I was curious to hear from you. Maybe you can explain a bit what it is and what got you started on it. Yeah. So, basically, I I wanted to create a movement that would move us towards a more democratic society by kind of working the levers that I felt like the working class had the most, kind of leverage on. So, you know, when I look at the way the economy is set up, it's like you have, certain industries where the people who, well, really in any industry, the people who create the value aren't really the ones that get to keep it. But you have certain, you have certain industries, especially in, like, the creative, creative economies, like knowledge economies, these kind of things that have the ability to much more readily, create a different system because of the Internet and because of, technology that we have or just because of inherently how they work. It doesn't necessarily take a lot of this sort of upstart capital. So, like, for instance, if you're, like, an artist or if you're, a a researcher, or, you know, you're you're a musician, it's kinda like you can create a lot of value just with yourself. And, also, you know, these people, tend to be, like, marginalized, and, those industries tend to have a lot of, like, social influence. So it was like, if we could get certain industries to work in a more cooperative manner, and if we could kind of make sure that, marginalized communities these marginalized communities that kind of have the social power are in empowered by technology to be able to kind of lead those industries, then we could, essentially set up a model that people could look at and say, this is what we're, like, exiting to. Alright. Go ahead. Using using, areas which aren't so capital intensive. Things like I mean, art, you don't need, you know, a million dollar loan to get up and running to make art. Right. Right. Or just things that are kind of inherently just decentralized. I mean, you could, there there are things like like sex work or, like, the cannabis industry where it's kinda like, marginalized people aren't allowed to make money or, like, work in society in sort of these more traditional and prestigious ways, so they have to get it kind of on the edges. But then it's like those edge ways of making money become mainstream and then sort of, like, get co opted, from those, like, marginalized people who were, like, basically the ones that, like, kept it around and, like, legitimized it in the first place. So, you know, like, it it could even be, like, like, one thing that we wanna do is, like, create a lobby for black owned weed businesses and basically set it up to where if we're gonna, like, legalize weed, we need to have, like, 50% of the of the employees at these companies be, like, black or indigenous people. And that needs to be, like, at every, like, level of the business. It can't just be, like, the entry level people or, like, where you fill those roles at. So, I think we're interested in like attacking it from from different angles, but like really kind of seeing like what those influential markets and, kinda communities and societies are that if we were to decentralize and sort of democratize that, it would act as both, like, a model of influence and, like, a, Yeah. Like, a bargaining chip and, like, politically and power wise to be able to, make the changes that we wanna see in society. Yeah. I think it's a interesting point about, at least, the marijuana business from what I've read is that, you know, something like 90 plus percent of weed business owners are all white even though, the vast majority of the people who are in jail for, possession of marijuana are people of color. Right. And it's so it's like there is, energy around kind of the racial justice aspect of legalizing weed, which is obviously, like, a great argument. But if we wanna build a coalition that would actually be able to get this done, that's, like, greater than just, like, the quote, unquote SJWs, there's different arguments for it. Right? Like, you can look at it from, like, an economic stimulus perspective. Like, basically, I'm working, on, like, ideating this project with, a friend of mine who I actually met through his music, but he was in pharmacy school at the time. And, like, now he's a pharmacy doctor, and he works in, like, pharmacy marketing and policy. So he's, basically, you know, drafting up the the reports and proposal and proposals that are going out to, like, the FDA and, like, hospitals and, you know, these kind of, like, institutions to sell and approve drugs. So he kinda sees exactly how that kind of, like, wheeling and dealing goes on behind the scenes. And, he was essentially telling me that he was reading this report that said, like, if they because, he's from New York. And he said if if when if and when weed is legalized in New York, that 40% of the jobs in New York will be in the cannabis industry. So you're talking about like a huge potential economic boom, potential to provide jobs to millions and millions of people if this happens. And then you also have the kind of health, health care, health, public health policy aspect of it where cannabis responds favorably to more symptoms and more ailments than any other pretty much any other substance. So that's a huge threat to big pharma because once you legalize weed, it's like people don't have to, like, buy opioids anymore. People, you know, wind up, like, not getting addicted to heroin. It's like, that that benefits everyone except for, you know, big pharma, the people who are, like, peddling all these all these prescription drugs. So then they become kind of, like, the big, enemy to, like, to, like, fight against there. But it's like, if you can, create some sort of deal where you're you're sitting at a table and you can say, you know, we work with these clients, these, like, black and indigenous owned, cooperatively owned, cannabis companies. Wouldn't it be great if, like, when weed was legalized, we had some sort of system where, like, the pharma wants to get into it. Like, they have to, meet these, standards of, like, racial equity, but that will get you into the business. And then, like, we and then we'll set up the law so that we sort of are, positioned like, our clients are positioned in the best way to sort of profit when when these, laws go into go into effect. So it's, like, definitely being willing to, like, play ball in the, like, sort of electoral space of things. But in the meantime, gaining that sort of, like, social and community power to where it's like, we have the ability to say we need to sit down at a table because we have control over, resources and essentially, like, the support of the people enough to be, like, you know, to have to have something to, like, give and, you know, that the other side wants, basically. Yeah. So a future modern is really, it's a cooperative, but it's meant to be a larger movement meant to empower Mhmm. Marginalized communities and using arts as, like, one of the ways to sort of show how it can work. Mhmm. Exactly. So what are some of the projects that, that you guys are working on, and where exactly does blockchain come into all of it? Yeah. So I feel like blockchain will probably come into every project that we work on because it is the one thing that allows you to essentially force people to act in good behavior without using violence. Right? So it's like, if you set up a system that where it's like, not only can you do can you not do the wrong thing, but you're incentivized to do the right thing. It's like, I don't see any way any other way, of getting us into, like, a a a global large scale, kind of, cooperative mode of operation and production. So That's assuming that, like, this is a blockchain that is designed to incentivize such, such behavior. Exactly. So, yeah, the question is, like, incentivizing it in such a way where it's not, like, just a tool of speculation that, like, financiers use to get richer and, is actually actively distributing power to, like, the base, you know, the kind of base, like, people in the system. So as far as, projects well, recently, I've been spending a lot of time on this, art blockchain project. So there's a lot of really interesting things now that you can do with blockchain to give yourself true ownership over your art in the digital space. Yeah. And so I think that's another thing with with blockchain that that ties in is the fact that it gives you true ownership. And prior to blockchain, there actually was not a concept of true ownership. And so now that you can own something without there being a third party custodian, the possibilities for people to own their own creations and build wealth from them become, you know, endless. So with that project, I'm really interested in how do we get these kind of new, like, they call it, like, web three, or just, you know, distributed web based, projects out to the masses. And to me, it's like, well, the masses aren't gonna come if the artists and the content aren't there. But if I, can show the artist kind of, like, what the value of this is to them, and they, you know, start taking ownership of it and, like, buying into it and, seeing that work for them, then it's like we can create a movement where we're bringing people who aren't even really hip to blockchain or aren't really maybe they've heard of Bitcoin, but they're not really they don't really know, like, everything else that can be done with it. And at the same time, we are creating a new culture within the blockchain space where it's not the the culture isn't about the blockchain itself. That's just, like, something that's happening in the back in the background that allows, like, real culture to, like, emerge and and flourish. So super excited about that project. We have about 15 artists that we've, you know, started signing up for, like, wallets and, getting on to Scent. I don't know if you've, heard of Scent, but they're pretty cool Yeah. Projects. So, you know, having them all, like, write intro posts on Scent and then, you know, getting in them into you know, the the next kind of plan is to, like, get them into, like, these art markets and these sort of art channels, like, all the sort of, like, Discords and and Telegram that people are selling, quote, unquote, crypto art in. And, yeah, I was just having a talk with one of our artists, yesterday or the day before. And, you know, it just went from this conversation of kinda extreme despair coming from him, you know, someone, who I've known for years, I know is extremely talented, like a seminal talent. And it's been proven too. Like, this, artist has basically curated and, like, mentored and developed some of the biggest kind of, like, underground artists in, like, the last five years. And then it's like his music is even kind of more original than theirs. And, you know, is it, you know, maybe isn't necessarily doesn't necessarily have the same mainstream appeal, but it's like, if the same people who knew, like, Lil Peep, who's, like, an artist that he mentored, if they all knew that, like, Jimmy v was someone who mentored Lil Peep, and that was, like, actual history that, like, people could, like, easily see, I think it would be, you know, at least some of those little fans would have to, like, give him a chance because it's, like, you know, they might have heard people talk about Jimmy v, but then, you know, they think he's black or whatever because he's not popular. So it's like this, or not as popular. You know? Like, he he definitely, like, has friends and good streams, but he's not on that same level. And, you know, most, music listeners are kind of it's like, I'm only gonna give you your this attend my attention if you're already popular because that's the only way that I know it's, like, worth it for me to, like, pay attention to you. So it becomes this, cycle. That's why that's why you have, like, seven I think, 77% of streaming and 60% of touring goes to the top 1% of artists. And this is, like, already in an industry where, music artists only get 11 of, like, all like, the total profit in that, is generated by the music industry itself. So it's, like, 89% of money that's made by music goes to managers and Yeah. Labels and whoever else. And then of that 11%, like, sixty, seventy, 80 is going to the top 1% of artists. So, you know, there definitely needs to be a better way. I think there there can be. I think, blockchain is a way to eventually decentralize record labels where you can just, basically have, like, your community be your record label. And instead of, you know, selling your rights to, some record company to be able to get access to marketing, you could have a situation where I I can see who in my network are kind of, like, the people who could get my, my art out to to receptive ears and essentially reward them whether it's through pay, whether it's through, oh, like, I can see through your blockchain identity that you, shared this message for me, and then, like, 500 people, like, saw that, saw my song through that. So then there's a smart contract that says, like, you know, whatever money comes through this, like, some some amount is gonna get split out to, like, the people that helped me, you know, put this together and sort of, promote it because, you know, that's that's what's happening at the end of the day. Anyway, it's just behind closed doors and It's not recorded. Yeah. Exactly. And and and be be centralized so that only a few people profit from it. Yeah. I mean, it's I think that music is, like, a good sort of, like, area where, I think blockchain can be experimented with pretty safely and pretty Yeah. Innovatively. I think doing something where everything is recorded so much, like, in other different types of industries maybe isn't a fit. But definitely in music, I think, you know, sharing me sharing my you know, that I like this song from this, you know, artist is not it's not like a dangerous thing to it's it's, like, not a dangerous space to play in. Yeah. That's definitely true. And, I feel like music is a lot more valuable than the money that we, than we pay for it. It's it's political power, because it's a soapbox. It's a way to get, a message out, not just through the music, but even, you know, just through the way that you dress, just like the the way that you associate. It's a way for, you know, black people to get representation, people to see us in in a different way. So, you know, I think it's really powerful if you, can really build a movement around music and art, and enable that through technology, it just it just gives, like, a new seed of power. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's that's kind of, one project that we're working on. Actually, that spans a couple projects. There's one that's, like, focused on art in the blockchain, and there's one that's focused on music and AI. But, you know, they're they'll probably work together with, you know, the AI being essentially how do you find who the people are that you need to support you. And then the blockchain being, like, the incentive structure that allows you to, cooperate, and and, remove kind of the centralized finance, structure from it. So and then you we're we are talking about eState, which is another project that is, you know, not involved in music and art. It's involved in housing. Oh, before I go into that, should I talk about just briefly, like, why this came to be? Yeah. Sure. Why not? Go for it. Yeah. I mean, I was just, I had, come up with this sort of, music AI project when I was in college. I was really interested in, kinda like I was saying, how do we get original artists that then get buried under imitators, more kind of exposure and surface those to the that same kind of, community that is, consuming the more popular artists. And, I because as a kid, I was really into, like, finding kinda new, independent or alternative or underground music, just like, you know, was tired of the fact that the radio played the same songs all the time. I was like, I know there has to be, you know, different music out there. So I, like, started finding music online a lot, using blogs and stuff. And then as I got older and sort of met people who actually, make music, I sort of got disillusioned from the, like, blog space because I was meeting people who are, like, really talented, musicians. And I was like, yo, you're, you know, your music is just as good as, like, the stuff that I'm finding on, like, pigeons and planes or, like, stereo gum or whatever. Why don't you just, like, submit your demo to them and then, like, you can, like, take a a year off college and, like, go tour or something? They're like, no. That's not how there's that's, like, not how it works. It's not like this meritocracy where, like, everyone gets, like, a fair listen and then they just, like, choose completely based on the quality of the song, like, who or, like, the originality of the song, like, who, you know, they're gonna they're gonna showcase. It's very much about, like, who you know and, like, whether you can say, like, oh, like, I worked with someone that worked with someone that you worked with and, like, be able to, like, draw those common threads. So it's, like, sort of getting disillusioned from that. At the same time, the kinda like Twitter was coming up. SoundCloud, had just come out. So it was like this these new kind of information highways where it was very, it was, like, social media, but, like, a like, a step up from that where it was, like, completely public. You know, streams of information could come to you from kinda, like, anywhere. And, you know, when I, once I sort of joined up, I started finding all this content that I would have never found if I was just, kind of, like, looking at blogs because the blogs, like, weren't writing about them. And I was real I realized that, like, a lot of the way that I was finding these new artists or, like, this new content or whatever was, like, you know, it start off following some people I know. And then, like, I would see that they were, like, like, a a number of them were, like, interacting or, like, following or, like, retweeting, like, someone else that I didn't know. And so after a time, it's like, okay. Like, those artists can sort sort of, like, like, cosign this artist or it seems like they're, like, these, like, 20 artists who, like, I I see, like, in, in, like, concert with each other, just sort of, like, mentioned around each other all the time. So, like, maybe I should, like, that's kinda like a community and I should, like, follow all of them. And then I'll, like, have a better idea of, like, what's going on in this, kind of scene as a whole. And then I was like, well, because I was learning in my, like, computer science classes about networks and kind of, network topology and structure and economics and how, like, graph theory can be applied to networks to teach you all these different things about, kind of how they break down and their dynamics. And I was like, well, I could, you know, kind of just apply this and automate the the thing that I'm already doing manually, trying to, kind of search the space, use algorithms to do that. And then I was like, well, you know, people are kind of already doing that, but the way that they're doing it is, like, in the background. And, you know, you just see, like, the end result, like, the end suggestion or recommendation or whatever. I thought it would be really cool if I could actually see that knowledge web itself and have the, have the the information that and the insight that was being pulled from the, you know, the the AI or whatever you wanna call it be, like, explicitly visual. So literally anyone could, like, understand, what it what, you know, what the insight was and, like, use that to explore for new content themselves as opposed to just kind of being spoon fed, an answer. Because when you're spoon fed an answer and you don't know why, then, of course, it becomes very easy to just make sure people listen to the same kind of, like, stratosphere of, of music and don't ever, like, expose themselves to, like, anything outside of that. So I thought it would you know, by instead having, like, a visual knowledge map of music, it would make people more comfortable branching out from what they know to what they don't know because it would show them the connections between them. So, you know, I that was just like this idea I had, was, you know, kinda, like, toying around with it for a bit. A couple years later, I wound up going to this, festival, called, lighting in a bottle. It's like, they call it, like, a transformative festival. And I guess it it's, like, kind of it's, like, you know, very new agey, but, like, the new age y kind of vibe, like, borrows these ideas almost from socialism, but but, like, not really. But, like, it's to be honest with you. Yeah. But it's, like, you know, this idea of, like, community, like, people would, form they call them tribes and, like, you know, they would, like, come in tribes and, you know, people would kinda have, like, these open, like, art installations or, like, their camp would be, like, set up very, like, artistically, and, like, maybe you could just, like, walk around. Like, it was very much more open and kind of, less, corporate y than, like, a Coachella or, like, other, like, festivals that I've been to. And I wound up, befriending this group of people called, like, First Kiss Society. They called themselves, and they were, this, I guess, collective, like, basically, the a tribe that was based around tea. So they were really into, like, tea and, like, different kinds of tea and, like, the the different healing powers that each tea had, and they would, like, make tea and, you know, give it out to people. And I was like, this is really cool. Like, I like the idea of people just coming around coming together around something they care about and, like, trying to make that into a service for people. But when I when I thought about it and I thought about, like, the people I knew and, like, what they're into, I was like, we could do something way more grand. Like, not still, like, you know, this tea or whatever, but, like, there's, like, a lot that we could accomplish if we took that kind of mentality of, like, we're gonna, like, work together in solidarity to achieve this rather than, oh, I'm just gonna, like, try and go, like, get a job at Google, and that's gonna be, you know, my story. And so, you know, I knew what I I kinda wanted this to, be focused around. You know, I was really interested in, like, data privacy and sort of, like, online autonomy and the opportunity to, create a more equitable kind of system, using technology. And, you know, the the idea, like, kind of, formed from there, I think yeah. I think, with, like, you know, at the time and I think after that, it's just, like, things kinda happen in, like, current events and stuff that, like, made people more aware of, like, the the kind of issues that I was talking about. You know, when I first sort of came to my friends, like, talking about, like, oh, like, we should make a cooperative. Well, I think at first, I like Maybe it's a good time to because I was gonna ask why Mhmm. Why design this as a cooperative? Right. And how how does that, you know, how does that internally work, the cooperative structure in in, like, such a such a system or in such a project like Aficionado? Hey, everyone. If you're enjoying this interview so far and you want to be sure that more content like this can be made, you can, of course, donate to my efforts through Patreon. So if you go to patreon.com/theblockchainsocialist you can donate starting at $3 per month or more to help me out and join other patrons like Andrew Sam Paul Matthew Kendra and the newest patron jb at the moment I spent more on this project and I've ever earned on it due to hosting costs so any amount really helps and in the future I'm hoping to make more complex bits of content to help get the message that blockchain doesn't need to be used to further entrench capitalist exploitation and we can use it to make something much better than that so that message resonates with you I hope you'll help out and if you can't help out financially don't worry understand one thing you can do to help is to subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you're using or leave a review you can as well join the different groups that are available out there there's the crypto leftist subreddit and the discord group which are the most, which are the biggest ones. Or you can follow me on Twitter at TB socialist. But that's it for me. So let's get back to the interview with Chibu from a future modern. Yeah. So exactly. I was like I'd heard of cooperatives. When I first came up with this idea, I wasn't, like, gung ho on cooperatives or, like, you know, super like involved in the cooperative space at all. But I had heard of them and had, you know, like an intellectual idea of what they were. And, I just thought like, and then so I started, like, looking more into it, and it just sort of made sense as a way to, involve, you know, like, really in, just sort of, you know, passionate, like, dedicated people, in a way that made them feel like they had ownership. Because I think, like, when I first, came up with, area that, like, music AI project I talked about, I was like, oh, I wanted, like, a couple people to, like, help me, work on it. So I was like, yo, guys, let's make this company. I'm gonna have 90% equity, and, like, you guys are gonna have 5%. And it almost sound it, like, sounded ridiculous coming out of my mouth, but I was like, that's just how companies are set up. Right? So, like, that's what I say. And, you know, one of them was like, that's ridiculous. Like, why, like, why would I do that? And I was kinda like, well, that's just kinda, like, how it works. And he was like, no. Like, I'm not gonna do that. So, you know, I sort of had, like, that experience of, like, yeah. I mean, that really doesn't make sense. Like, I would not there's not anyone that I would work with that I would really wanna be, like, the boss of. You know what I mean? So it's like I think I think there's, like Yeah. I feel like it's a lot of time. Like, I think it'd be interesting to know how many people actually would have created maybe a cooperative instead if they knew, you know, if they knew there was an alternative to, like, a start up or, like, a normal company. I mean, I I feel like a lot of people don't naturally want to be the boss over someone necessarily. Right. Yeah. And, yeah, there was some, person that I met who, like, went to MIT, and it was funny because, like, I met him at this, kinda like underground hip hop bar in LA, and, like, his French shirt had, like, some, like, nerdy, like, spelling out of, like, MIT. It was like, what is it? Like, e over c squared for, like, m, and then it was, like, square root of negative one for I. And it was, like, you know, super nerdy. And then I, like, looked at his trailer. I was like, oh, you went to MIT. And so it's like, obviously, we're, like, instant friends because, like, I, like, caught it. And, you know, then he was he was telling me about, like, oh, how he's really into the startup scene in LA and stuff. I was like, oh, this is my ticket. Like, you know, he's like this white dude. Like, I was like, this dude probably knows, like, everything and everyone about, like, making a startup. Like, this is, you know, how this is how I'm gonna, you know, this is this is gonna be my mentor. And then like, we started talking about it and he was like, yeah, the first thing you wanna do is like set up a C corporation and like make yourself like the sole owner. Was just like, well, yeah, I've already kind of been here and like I know like that's not gonna be the way that we're gonna do it. So like I, you know, realized then that I needed to find kinda like a new community, or at least just like the people that were doing something more similar to what I was doing. But, yeah, I think a lot of people don't know. And, you know, I just I just known about it because, you know, my interest in anarchism, and just, like, having debates with people about, like, oh, you know, like, how would we organize society without a government? So I would just like throw up, oh, you know, we just have like cooperatives and then there'd be councils. And this is just like, I haven't read like a lot of like literature or anything. This is just, like, me thinking, like, you know, as an economist, like, that's what my background is. Like, you know, maybe something like that would work. And then yeah. So once I, you know, actually started building it, that's when I was like, okay. I actually need to, like, learn kind of like what the history of this is, like, who's done this before, you know, what works, what doesn't. And, you know, also kind of realize that we in ourselves are a research project and, you know, creating best practices, for it in this kind of new world, especially because, you know, we want it to be enabled by blockchain, and we see Blockchain as a way for it to be able to kind of scale and be, like, the next, like, business model of the future. So how exactly does the cooperative work within a future model? How like, Yeah. Is it I imagine it's gotta be a little bit different than if you're using blockchain sometimes. Yeah. So, yeah, I think that's still in flux, because I'm learning so much about not only blockchain, but, like, also alternatives to blockchain, like, basically, like, mutual credit systems and, like, the work that's been done there. And, you know, working with, this company called Resonate, which is another, which is a cooperatively owned meet music streaming coop, that we're partnering with. And Who I who I interviewed, Rich Jensen, the current CEO. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I talked to Rich. I talked to Rich, you know, like, once a week or more. And and, yeah, you know, I think, in their sort of space, they have, like, mixed feelings or, like, split feelings about blockchain. You know, they but I think part of that is they, you know, used it before, and they see how kind of the fluctuations in the market and, like, the tokens can kind of, you know, mess up their operations. So I think it's important to kind of learn from that. Like, I was interested in, like, making our company a DAO, but then, it's like I look at how a DAO works, and it's basically, like, the amount of money you have is, like, the amount of votes you have. And it's just like that that doesn't make sense. Like, that's just I guess how you design it. Yeah. That's how how a lot of them are designed currently are very, unimaginative when it comes to, they sort of take on just like a capitalist form. Yeah. It's just like a decentralized capitalism. Yeah. But, yeah. Yeah. I would say it's, it's pretty unimaginative. But, I mean, I guess there's, like, a different way to do it, but then there's, like, there's not necessarily the template for it. So it's like Yeah. It can't necessarily be the thing we do right now because, you know, we're gonna be spending all this time trying to figure it out. So I think right now, you know, the way that's set up is just, like, we have different projects that are considered different cooperatives. And then there's sport sort of, like, under the future modern umbrella. So we have area, which is that, music, like, visualized AI, startup, I guess. We have Artel, which is, like, this art collective, blockchain art collective that I was talking about. We have Estate, which, isn't meant to be, a way for blockchain to provide housing, But it rolls out in a multi phase process because the first question is, like, okay. If you want, a blockchain to provide people free housing, like, how do you get actually acquire the housing that you're gonna then give to people? And, like, how do you move housing from the sort of traditional financial system into, like, this cooperative system. And so the program is to, iteratively gain more leverage to be able to as inexpensively and as sort of, like, efficiently and quickly as possible, buy back, property in our neighborhoods and have them basically stewarded by, you you know, like, community organizers, community leaders, just marginalized, groups in those in those neighborhoods and then have rules for how we, share it out, make you know, some mix between, sharing it to kind of people who are in in the, like, membership group and then, like, renting it out to people who are out of the membership group so that you can fund, like, basically, subsidize, the services that you're giving to people in the membership group. And then, you know, ideally, after time, it's like we we control enough of this housing that we can actually start, like, making demands. So that is kind of, like, what we're doing with that, which, you know you know, this idea of, like, giving people housing with blockchain is a great idea. And I was just, like, this is my concept of, like, how we would get there. And, then we have those are kinda like the three projects that are kinda initialized, and we're trying to get up and running. And then there there are other projects that are sort of, being ideated, like, having some kind of, like, life sciences division where, you know, we could work on things like legalized like, weed legalization and making sure that's, like, equitable, making sure, you know, helping, like, farming co ops get set up. Like, we have, like, a lot of, people with, like, earth systems, civil engineering, kinda like environmental engineering and science background. So mobilizing that to, you know, provide different services for the community, improve perhaps provide, like, educational experiences as well. So it's like kids can learn, like, how to like, it's like if you're gonna take, like, an economics class, why isn't the economics class on, like, cooperative economics and, like, how you can work your with your, like, classmates to, you know, create, like, a self sustaining farm or, like, whatever it is. So, you know, that's, that's kinda, like, how it's set up. And then people can kinda, like, move between projects. We're discussing right now if we wanna be, like, a a a collective or a traditional cooperative. I think, you know, the idea is, like, a collective is, like, completely direct, decision making, direct democratic decision making. And then, like, a cooperative that's not a collective would potentially have, like, a board of directors that gets elected. And we are thinking, like, we might have, like, a mix of both. Like, there's, a board of directors, but it's rotating. And so if you want to, like, have, a certain position of power or, like, responsibility, you can, like, rotate into that. And and, yeah, we actually just, started, working with, a financial adviser who actually comes from I I wanna say he comes from, like, M and a, but he comes from, like, a traditional, finance background, but he's really interested in, like, cooperatives and, like, helping them get structured. So he's been, really helpful in, like, figuring out, like, how our equity structure works because, you know, right now we're not funded or we have, like, a small amount of, like, angel, money from one of our members. But, you know, we're applying for grants and, like, looking into spark sponsorships and potentially looking at what investment would look like. And, you know, so he's giving us tips on, like, how to, like, structure our equity and, how to, like, basically, set up our core corporate structure, how to set up, like, our payout structure for our members, to be able to, like, maintain a maintain a healthy business while we are, you know, trying to achieve these lofty goals and visions. Yeah. So then, I mean, it sounds like you guys are making, some progress. But how would someone, like, a listener right now, how would they go about maybe becoming a member, of the cooperative? Yeah. I think, the first thing to do would probably just be to reach out. Like, follow us on on, our web two and web three spaces. You know, we're really active on scents, like, the Hive, the Hive blogging space, as well as, like, you know, like Twitter, Instagram, whatever. Actually, I guess, this financial advisor that we started working with is a good example. He just reached out, essentially saying, like, he wants to help, and he sort of was, like, specifically, like, here's how. And, you know, we just happen to, like, really need, that kind of help, you know, and I didn't, and I've been looking for, you know, people who could give us more advice on that. You know, I talked to, like, another financial adviser, but he was more so on, like, investments and partnerships kinds of things. So, like, he could help us with that, but he can really help us with, like, how do we get, like, actually set up internally. And so, yeah, it was sort of just, like, right place, right time. And, like, you know, now, you know, it'll still take kind of, like, developing a relationship, but it would you know, I think it would be great if, you know, he wound up, you know, coming on or at least just being, an adviser in, like, a official capacity. I think the way that we kinda wanna structure in general is, like, first, you would be an employee. So, you know, you would have, like, a a three month, six month provisional, period. And then, you know, if, you still wanna, join and we still want you to join, then, you know, we would have a vote. And, barring any, like, extreme grievance that someone, like, brought up against you, you would then be able to join. And, yeah, right now, it's really, project based, but I think it'll it'll soon develop into kinda like a fully fleshed out enterprise. Yeah. So then right now, if someone is listening and they want to get part take part, then they should direct message you essentially on, one of the Yeah. Or or again. Yeah. Or yeah. Any of our, any of our members, we are on key base as well. So, I'm a future modern on key base. Anyone that, follows me is, pretty much a member. I don't know how you, like, let people see your, your groups on Keybase. But if you if you definitely, if you message me on Keybase, I'll I'll respond and, and, we can figure out how you can see the rest of the people in the team as well. Cool. Yeah. And we're working on a website and stuff, so then you'll be able to have more visibility into who we are. But, yeah, I think if you if you, find us on social media and start clicking around, pretty much only, retweet other people who are in the collective. So you'll start to find out who we are. Yeah. Nice. So I want to go quickly back to the eState project that you mentioned. Yeah. Because you mentioned that, you know, part of this the goals of, Future Modern and, like, the movement we're trying to do is, like, empower disenfranchised communities. And I thought eState was a really I mean, it's a really, like, material example, I think, of Right. Helping out disenfranchised communities. So I thought maybe you can explain a bit how how something like eState, would help disenfranchised communities and, like, maybe you can even specify which disenfranchised communities you think this would help. Yeah. I think, it would be geared towards, basically black and brown urban communities, people who are at risk of displacement by gentrification, facing rising rents, that's who we really want to, target with this. And This is probably especially, like, cogent since I mean, at the moment with the with the corona crisis and on The US, that's Right. People have lost, I think, you know, all you got was the $1,200 stimulus check and, like, I think you're losing unemployment benefits as well for a lot of people. So and the moratorium on evictions, I think, is is ending. Yeah. Yeah. Nationally, it is. I think in California, it officially did. I don't know what the deal is in LA. It's very, it's very confusing too because I'm reading that they extended it, but then people are saying that they did it. And it's like, yeah. It's it's really bad. I think what this would, provide people is, first of all, a way to, share information on their housing experiences, their landlord, their building, basically review them and, start attaching, like, a like, a reputation and a history to them. Because, when you apply to rent somewhere, you know, you have to give them your Social Security number, all your your bank account, like, your rental history, your referrals, all this in for basically, everything there is to know about you, but you don't know anything about your landlord. You don't know how many people they've evicted before, like, what, their, like, statistics are on, like, who they've, like, let rent versus who they haven't, you know, what their, like, rent price has been over time. Let's see. Landlords ask for a lot of information before you can rent while you don't know jack shit about your landlord. Right. So, kinda looking to to flip that on its head. And so what I like about eState is we wanna set it up as a dual like a like a dual power system, or a counter power system, I guess, is maybe a less, encumbered word for it, where you have members and nonmembers. Members are essentially seeded with, like, community organizations, and then they can invite people to join. And, those members would be the people who are allowed to, make reviews, share information, make posts, and earn, credits essentially for, sharing that information. Meanwhile, nonmembers can, see the information that's being posted but not post themselves. And we're thinking that, potentially, there's the opportunity for them to pay for information, whether it's, information that's been kept private because, you know, whoever offered it wants to make that information members only or, information that just hasn't been provided, you would be able to essentially, like, fundraise for that that piece of inform for someone to come in and and and fill in that piece of information. So the first step would basically be an information market for housing that was led by, yeah, kind of disenfranchised communities, in in urban areas and in cities. And, in doing that, you can first establish, like, a fairly priced housing market and a fairly kinda informed housing market, which I think is, like, a super important first step because the housing the real estate market is so shady. We and, you know, it is very discriminatory, and, they, you know, jack prices up for no reason. And, just being able to, like, show people that I think is is hugely important. We are working with this engineer who, runs his, his own real estate development company, and he, is, like, born in El Salvador. Basically, came from nothing now, like works at, Department of of of Water and Power. Basically, like, Rex to Rich's story, and is really interested in, like, how, you know, he can use what he knows to make housing more affordable for her people and especially interested in, like, how tech can kinda accelerate that and enable that. So we wind up meeting just on some, oh, like, you are really into revolutionizing industries through tech. You know, what what do you got for, like, the real estate industry? And then, you know, I was like, well, I have some ideas. Obviously, being able to, like, collectively invest in real estate, I think, would, you know, open up opportunities for wealth for people that, you know, weren't up, available. But I wanna hear, like, what you think is, like, the issue kind of in what what issues you see in the real estate industry. And he was like, yeah. The the kind of, like, the most egregious thing that I see is just the amount of lying, corruption, just misrepresentation of information that occurs in the real estate industry. And, if you were to remove that, I feel like prices would be a lot more fair and affordable for people. And then once you have that sort of fairness, then you can layer in a lot of the things that people have already tried and then, combined with things that in terms of, like, fractional investment and what have you combined with things that people haven't tried, like providing free housing for people when, you know, new spots become available or having, like, real estate development, services available so that when communities gain control of housing, they can, develop them into, you know, more sustainable, more dense, more, just kind of efficient buildings and essentially, quote, unquote, gentrified, like, renew their urban, you know, the urban environment without it causing displacement and instead just benefiting from, their, communities becoming kinda more developed. That's it. I think that makes sense. I mean, real estate is the fuck sometimes. I mean, prices I mean, land the the power dynamic between landlord and the renter is just so, I mean, obvious and egregious. Yeah. But so maybe to stem from that and maybe look at the broader picture, I'm curious to hear what you think the plan is for a future modern to make sociopolitical change in general, and what are the long term goals of a future modern? You know, I think something like e state, something like, tree roots, which is our kind of envisioned life sciences division. Like, once you like, obviously, like, the art and the music is cool and stuff, and it gives you it's really, like, more of, like, a marketing tool, where it's, like, okay. We're out here. You know we're cool. You know you know we're, doing these big things. Okay. Now we can, like, get into the material world and, like, you know, make some real change. And I think it's like so once you are sort of working and giving people, like, material goods and material wealth, then you kind of have, like, a bargaining chip where you can kind of start playing in the political sphere, whether you know, I think in it starts locally. You know, like, I could imagine a situation where, for instance, one of our members works with this, indigenous collective that, has a lot of, weed growing going on, but they also have, like, a a law arm where they, do, like, youth outreach and basically, like, keeping youth out of gangs and, like, jails and stuff. And through that, they've developed, like, this really solid, like, community network that's been going on for, like, thirty, forty years. And, you can imagine a situation where they are, you know, they get kinda, like, integrated into the future modern infrastructure. We set them up with, like, some, like, blockchain, like, supply chain like, supply chain system. Now they're, like, flushed with cash. We use, like, their, weed, kind of, proceeds to, like, grow food and, like, grow, like, herbal medicines and, like so they're already doing something where they have, like, a dispensary. And then, like, in the dispensary, they have, like, a health clinic. So, you know, they're, you know, providing services, that are kind of being subsidized with, what they're selling. And, you know, once you're sort of doing that at scale, maybe you can start to, like, push boundaries a little bit. Like, start, like, growing a farm that, like, may not be legal technically, but it's like the entire city is behind this. So what are you necessarily going to do about it? And then, you know, I could see, like, basically, the the end goal is to create is to be our own, like, quote unquote state or, like, non state or, yeah, I guess, anarchist state where probably, you know, wouldn't just be us. It would be a bunch of other, you know, techno tech enabled cooperatives. And we are sort of in this decentralized, like, metropolis where, you know, we have a lot of kind of, like, resources in common that we share with each other. I mean, at that point, we probably, you know, even have, like, a security system because there we we, will potentially have, like, real enemies. What we wanna be is, you know, living in a compound, like, doing experiments, making art, like, growing our own food, and, like, giving away the surplus to, you know, like, the community. And, and, you know, basically, that kind of, like, anarchist, like, utopia, quote, unquote. You know, that's, like, the the twenty year, thirty year plan. Yeah. You know? Basically creating, like, a dual a counter power system, like, a a a self sufficient alternative to, everything that exists right now. I like I like the lofty goal. I think, I think it's a lot of people can identify, I think, especially maybe those who listen, like, wanting this type of system and just, like, knowing that we can provide. We just produce some food, some, like, excess of different products that we can share with those who need it rather than, just for profit as it is as it is now. Yeah. I can identify with that. Yeah. And, I think, there are ways like, I'm really interested in ways that we kind of exploit the capitalist system back. Like, I'm very down to, like, my, one of our artists was saying that we should, like like, get investment and then, like, dissolve the company and then, like, make an entirely new one, like, which I don't know if I'm like if I'm like that kind of, like, debonair, but, like, I would definitely be down, like, this idea of, like, ethical branding or, I they call it ethical advertising. I I, have another term for which is brand laundering. The, you know, like, all these, corporations have, like, you know, some marketing, some budget for marketing. And it's like instead of paying all that money to, like, Facebook, Instagram, Google, Twitter, you could, pay that money as a donation into this network and community of, businesses and cooperatives and nonprofits and and just, like, mutual aid services that we have. And then, like, maybe your name gets, like, attached to it in, like, fine print. And, like, that's, like, the way that you, like, put yourself out in the community, as opposed to, you know, just, like, flipping ads. So it's like, yeah, once you kind of have the ears and eyes and, like, attention of people, you know, there are definitely ways where I'm willing to, like, take capitalist money to kinda, like, contribute to these goals because, you know, we don't really have time to kinda be purists about it. It's more, of, like, how do we protect their influence from creeping in, which, you know, like, one thing that we wanna do is, like, have a small amount of equity that's, like, allowed, the app that investors are allowed to buy, but then they it doesn't give them any voting rights, which I found out that there's apparently, some precedent for it because Mark Zuckerberg, because I was telling this to my friend. He was like, oh, yeah. Just like Zuckerberg. And I was like, oh, what are you talking about? He was like, oh, like, Zuckerberg has the only is the only person on the voting rights in Facebook. I was like, what? Like, that is I mean, that is crazy, but it's also not surprising. It's like if if Zach can do that and, like, keep all the power for himself, then we can definitely do that and keep the power for all of our members and, like, the community that we, service. But, yeah. I mean, but, you know, I think it it's, something we still are looking into. There's also, like, potentially sponsorships or, like, another, way of, you know, just kinda of of being able to keep it going. Yeah. You know, I think it's like taking, like, bits and chunks and pieces off of it, gradually over time. Well, this is a really interesting, conversation, and the project is really interesting. I hope people can, check it out. But maybe you can for the last question, just where can people look, where should they look to find out more about a future modern if they want to learn more? I think, best place right now is our Open Collective. Opencollective.com/afuturemodern. You know, we're also a future modern on everything, Twitter, Instagram, since, Hive. So I would just follow us to keep up with us. Our website will be dropping soon. So definitely follow us so you can, keep up with that. I'm also on, Discord and and Telegram is the same thing, a future modern. So, Keybase, a future modern. So, definitely follow us and feel free to message us. Open to discussion anytime. Cool. Well, thanks a lot, and good luck with, with the projects. Thank you. Thank you for having me. This was super interesting, and, I was really happy to get the practice, to talk about the stuff. Anytime. 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"thanks", "start": 4047.645, "end": 4048.145, "confidence": 0.99922115, "punctuated_word": "Thanks.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.19202769 } ], "summaries": null, "paragraphs": { "transcript": "\nSpeaker 0: Hello, everyone. This is Blockchain Socialist, and you're listening to another new episode. And today, I'm doing an interview with Chibout Ichiban, a founding member of a future modern network of cooperatives, which is delivering liberation tech to the masses through arts, culture, and basic services. Hey, Chibu. How are you doing?\n\nSpeaker 1: Good. Good. How are you?\n\nSpeaker 0: Pretty good. So, the future modern cooperative is a pretty interesting project that's, that I've come across, and I was curious to hear from you. Maybe you can explain a bit what it is and what got you started on it.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. So, basically, I I wanted to create a movement that would move us towards a more democratic society by kind of working the levers that I felt like the working class had the most, kind of leverage on. So, you know, when I look at the way the economy is set up, it's like you have, certain industries where the people who, well, really in any industry, the people who create the value aren't really the ones that get to keep it. But you have certain, you have certain industries, especially in, like, the creative, creative economies, like knowledge economies, these kind of things that have the ability to much more readily, create a different system because of the Internet and because of, technology that we have or just because of inherently how they work. It doesn't necessarily take a lot of this sort of upstart capital.\n\nSo, like, for instance, if you're, like, an artist or if you're, a a researcher, or, you know, you're you're a musician, it's kinda like you can create a lot of value just with yourself. And, also, you know, these people, tend to be, like, marginalized, and, those industries tend to have a lot of, like, social influence. So it was like, if we could get certain industries to work in a more cooperative manner, and if we could kind of make sure that, marginalized communities these marginalized communities that kind of have the social power are in empowered by technology to be able to kind of lead those industries, then we could, essentially set up a model that people could look at and say, this is what we're, like, exiting to. Alright. Go ahead.\n\nSpeaker 0: Using using, areas which aren't so capital intensive. Things like I mean, art, you don't need, you know, a million dollar loan to get up and running to make art.\n\nSpeaker 1: Right. Right. Or just things that are kind of inherently just decentralized. I mean, you could, there there are things like like sex work or, like, the cannabis industry where it's kinda like, marginalized people aren't allowed to make money or, like, work in society in sort of these more traditional and prestigious ways, so they have to get it kind of on the edges. But then it's like those edge ways of making money become mainstream and then sort of, like, get co opted, from those, like, marginalized people who were, like, basically the ones that, like, kept it around and, like, legitimized it in the first place.\n\nSo, you know, like, it it could even be, like, like, one thing that we wanna do is, like, create a lobby for black owned weed businesses and basically set it up to where if we're gonna, like, legalize weed, we need to have, like, 50% of the of the employees at these companies be, like, black or indigenous people. And that needs to be, like, at every, like, level of the business. It can't just be, like, the entry level people or, like, where you fill those roles at. So, I think we're interested in like attacking it from from different angles, but like really kind of seeing like what those influential markets and, kinda communities and societies are that if we were to decentralize and sort of democratize that, it would act as both, like, a model of influence and, like, a, Yeah. Like, a bargaining chip and, like, politically and power wise to be able to, make the changes that we wanna see in society.\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah. I think it's a interesting point about, at least, the marijuana business from what I've read is that, you know, something like 90 plus percent of weed business owners are all white even though, the vast majority of the people who are in jail for, possession of marijuana are people of color.\n\nSpeaker 1: Right. And it's so it's like there is, energy around kind of the racial justice aspect of legalizing weed, which is obviously, like, a great argument. But if we wanna build a coalition that would actually be able to get this done, that's, like, greater than just, like, the quote, unquote SJWs, there's different arguments for it. Right? Like, you can look at it from, like, an economic stimulus perspective.\n\nLike, basically, I'm working, on, like, ideating this project with, a friend of mine who I actually met through his music, but he was in pharmacy school at the time. And, like, now he's a pharmacy doctor, and he works in, like, pharmacy marketing and policy. So he's, basically, you know, drafting up the the reports and proposal and proposals that are going out to, like, the FDA and, like, hospitals and, you know, these kind of, like, institutions to sell and approve drugs. So he kinda sees exactly how that kind of, like, wheeling and dealing goes on behind the scenes. And, he was essentially telling me that he was reading this report that said, like, if they because, he's from New York.\n\nAnd he said if if when if and when weed is legalized in New York, that 40% of the jobs in New York will be in the cannabis industry. So you're talking about like a huge potential economic boom, potential to provide jobs to millions and millions of people if this happens. And then you also have the kind of health, health care, health, public health policy aspect of it where cannabis responds favorably to more symptoms and more ailments than any other pretty much any other substance. So that's a huge threat to big pharma because once you legalize weed, it's like people don't have to, like, buy opioids anymore. People, you know, wind up, like, not getting addicted to heroin.\n\nIt's like, that that benefits everyone except for, you know, big pharma, the people who are, like, peddling all these all these prescription drugs. So then they become kind of, like, the big, enemy to, like, to, like, fight against there. But it's like, if you can, create some sort of deal where you're you're sitting at a table and you can say, you know, we work with these clients, these, like, black and indigenous owned, cooperatively owned, cannabis companies. Wouldn't it be great if, like, when weed was legalized, we had some sort of system where, like, the pharma wants to get into it. Like, they have to, meet these, standards of, like, racial equity, but that will get you into the business.\n\nAnd then, like, we and then we'll set up the law so that we sort of are, positioned like, our clients are positioned in the best way to sort of profit when when these, laws go into go into effect. So it's, like, definitely being willing to, like, play ball in the, like, sort of electoral space of things. But in the meantime, gaining that sort of, like, social and community power to where it's like, we have the ability to say we need to sit down at a table because we have control over, resources and essentially, like, the support of the people enough to be, like, you know, to have to have something to, like, give and, you know, that the other side wants, basically.\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah. So a future modern is really, it's a cooperative, but it's meant to be a larger movement meant to empower\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhmm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Marginalized communities and using arts as, like, one of the ways to sort of show how it can work.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhmm. Exactly.\n\nSpeaker 0: So what are some of the projects that, that you guys are working on, and where exactly does blockchain come into all of it?\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. So I feel like blockchain will probably come into every project that we work on because it is the one thing that allows you to essentially force people to act in good behavior without using violence. Right? So it's like, if you set up a system that where it's like, not only can you do can you not do the wrong thing, but you're incentivized to do the right thing. It's like, I don't see any way any other way, of getting us into, like, a a a global large scale, kind of, cooperative mode of operation and production.\n\nSo\n\nSpeaker 0: That's assuming that, like, this is a blockchain that is designed to incentivize such, such behavior.\n\nSpeaker 1: Exactly. So, yeah, the question is, like, incentivizing it in such a way where it's not, like, just a tool of speculation that, like, financiers use to get richer and, is actually actively distributing power to, like, the base, you know, the kind of base, like, people in the system. So as far as, projects well, recently, I've been spending a lot of time on this, art blockchain project. So there's a lot of really interesting things now that you can do with blockchain to give yourself true ownership over your art in the digital space.\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah.\n\nSpeaker 1: And so I think that's another thing with with blockchain that that ties in is the fact that it gives you true ownership. And prior to blockchain, there actually was not a concept of true ownership. And so now that you can own something without there being a third party custodian, the possibilities for people to own their own creations and build wealth from them become, you know, endless. So with that project, I'm really interested in how do we get these kind of new, like, they call it, like, web three, or just, you know, distributed web based, projects out to the masses. And to me, it's like, well, the masses aren't gonna come if the artists and the content aren't there.\n\nBut if I, can show the artist kind of, like, what the value of this is to them, and they, you know, start taking ownership of it and, like, buying into it and, seeing that work for them, then it's like we can create a movement where we're bringing people who aren't even really hip to blockchain or aren't really maybe they've heard of Bitcoin, but they're not really they don't really know, like, everything else that can be done with it. And at the same time, we are creating a new culture within the blockchain space where it's not the the culture isn't about the blockchain itself. That's just, like, something that's happening in the back in the background that allows, like, real culture to, like, emerge and and flourish. So super excited about that project. We have about 15 artists that we've, you know, started signing up for, like, wallets and, getting on to Scent.\n\nI don't know if you've, heard of Scent, but they're pretty cool Yeah. Projects. So, you know, having them all, like, write intro posts on Scent and then, you know, getting in them into you know, the the next kind of plan is to, like, get them into, like, these art markets and these sort of art channels, like, all the sort of, like, Discords and and Telegram that people are selling, quote, unquote, crypto art in. And, yeah, I was just having a talk with one of our artists, yesterday or the day before. And, you know, it just went from this conversation of kinda extreme despair coming from him, you know, someone, who I've known for years, I know is extremely talented, like a seminal talent.\n\nAnd it's been proven too. Like, this, artist has basically curated and, like, mentored and developed some of the biggest kind of, like, underground artists in, like, the last five years. And then it's like his music is even kind of more original than theirs. And, you know, is it, you know, maybe isn't necessarily doesn't necessarily have the same mainstream appeal, but it's like, if the same people who knew, like, Lil Peep, who's, like, an artist that he mentored, if they all knew that, like, Jimmy v was someone who mentored Lil Peep, and that was, like, actual history that, like, people could, like, easily see, I think it would be, you know, at least some of those little fans would have to, like, give him a chance because it's, like, you know, they might have heard people talk about Jimmy v, but then, you know, they think he's black or whatever because he's not popular. So it's like this, or not as popular.\n\nYou know? Like, he he definitely, like, has friends and good streams, but he's not on that same level. And, you know, most, music listeners are kind of it's like, I'm only gonna give you your this attend my attention if you're already popular because that's the only way that I know it's, like, worth it for me to, like, pay attention to you. So it becomes this, cycle. That's why that's why you have, like, seven I think, 77% of streaming and 60% of touring goes to the top 1% of artists.\n\nAnd this is, like, already in an industry where, music artists only get 11 of, like, all like, the total profit in that, is generated by the music industry itself. So it's, like, 89% of money that's made by music goes to managers and Yeah. Labels and whoever else. And then of that 11%, like, sixty, seventy, 80 is going to the top 1% of artists. So, you know, there definitely needs to be a better way.\n\nI think there there can be. I think, blockchain is a way to eventually decentralize record labels where you can just, basically have, like, your community be your record label. And instead of, you know, selling your rights to, some record company to be able to get access to marketing, you could have a situation where I I can see who in my network are kind of, like, the people who could get my, my art out to to receptive ears and essentially reward them whether it's through pay, whether it's through, oh, like, I can see through your blockchain identity that you, shared this message for me, and then, like, 500 people, like, saw that, saw my song through that. So then there's a smart contract that says, like, you know, whatever money comes through this, like, some some amount is gonna get split out to, like, the people that helped me, you know, put this together and sort of, promote it because, you know, that's that's what's happening at the end of the day. Anyway, it's just behind closed doors and\n\nSpeaker 0: It's not recorded.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. Exactly. And and and be be centralized so that only a few people profit from it.\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah. I mean, it's I think that music is, like, a good sort of, like, area where, I think blockchain can be experimented with pretty safely and pretty Yeah. Innovatively. I think doing something where everything is recorded so much, like, in other different types of industries maybe isn't a fit. But definitely in music, I think, you know, sharing me sharing my you know, that I like this song from this, you know, artist is not it's not like a dangerous thing to it's it's, like, not a dangerous space to play in.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. That's definitely true. And, I feel like music is a lot more valuable than the money that we, than we pay for it. It's it's political power, because it's a soapbox. It's a way to get, a message out, not just through the music, but even, you know, just through the way that you dress, just like the the way that you associate.\n\nIt's a way for, you know, black people to get representation, people to see us in in a different way. So, you know, I think it's really powerful if you, can really build a movement around music and art, and enable that through technology, it just it just gives, like, a new seed of power. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's that's kind of, one project that we're working on.\n\nActually, that spans a couple projects. There's one that's, like, focused on art in the blockchain, and there's one that's focused on music and AI. But, you know, they're they'll probably work together with, you know, the AI being essentially how do you find who the people are that you need to support you. And then the blockchain being, like, the incentive structure that allows you to, cooperate, and and, remove kind of the centralized finance, structure from it. So and then you we're we are talking about eState, which is another project that is, you know, not involved in music and art.\n\nIt's involved in housing. Oh, before I go into that, should I talk about just briefly, like, why this came to be?\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah. Sure. Why not? Go for it.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I was just, I had, come up with this sort of, music AI project when I was in college. I was really interested in, kinda like I was saying, how do we get original artists that then get buried under imitators, more kind of exposure and surface those to the that same kind of, community that is, consuming the more popular artists. And, I because as a kid, I was really into, like, finding kinda new, independent or alternative or underground music, just like, you know, was tired of the fact that the radio played the same songs all the time. I was like, I know there has to be, you know, different music out there.\n\nSo I, like, started finding music online a lot, using blogs and stuff. And then as I got older and sort of met people who actually, make music, I sort of got disillusioned from the, like, blog space because I was meeting people who are, like, really talented, musicians. And I was like, yo, you're, you know, your music is just as good as, like, the stuff that I'm finding on, like, pigeons and planes or, like, stereo gum or whatever. Why don't you just, like, submit your demo to them and then, like, you can, like, take a a year off college and, like, go tour or something? They're like, no.\n\nThat's not how there's that's, like, not how it works. It's not like this meritocracy where, like, everyone gets, like, a fair listen and then they just, like, choose completely based on the quality of the song, like, who or, like, the originality of the song, like, who, you know, they're gonna they're gonna showcase. It's very much about, like, who you know and, like, whether you can say, like, oh, like, I worked with someone that worked with someone that you worked with and, like, be able to, like, draw those common threads. So it's, like, sort of getting disillusioned from that. At the same time, the kinda like Twitter was coming up.\n\nSoundCloud, had just come out. So it was like this these new kind of information highways where it was very, it was, like, social media, but, like, a like, a step up from that where it was, like, completely public. You know, streams of information could come to you from kinda, like, anywhere. And, you know, when I, once I sort of joined up, I started finding all this content that I would have never found if I was just, kind of, like, looking at blogs because the blogs, like, weren't writing about them. And I was real I realized that, like, a lot of the way that I was finding these new artists or, like, this new content or whatever was, like, you know, it start off following some people I know.\n\nAnd then, like, I would see that they were, like, like, a a number of them were, like, interacting or, like, following or, like, retweeting, like, someone else that I didn't know. And so after a time, it's like, okay. Like, those artists can sort sort of, like, like, cosign this artist or it seems like they're, like, these, like, 20 artists who, like, I I see, like, in, in, like, concert with each other, just sort of, like, mentioned around each other all the time. So, like, maybe I should, like, that's kinda like a community and I should, like, follow all of them. And then I'll, like, have a better idea of, like, what's going on in this, kind of scene as a whole.\n\nAnd then I was like, well, because I was learning in my, like, computer science classes about networks and kind of, network topology and structure and economics and how, like, graph theory can be applied to networks to teach you all these different things about, kind of how they break down and their dynamics. And I was like, well, I could, you know, kind of just apply this and automate the the thing that I'm already doing manually, trying to, kind of search the space, use algorithms to do that. And then I was like, well, you know, people are kind of already doing that, but the way that they're doing it is, like, in the background. And, you know, you just see, like, the end result, like, the end suggestion or recommendation or whatever. I thought it would be really cool if I could actually see that knowledge web itself and have the, have the the information that and the insight that was being pulled from the, you know, the the AI or whatever you wanna call it be, like, explicitly visual.\n\nSo literally anyone could, like, understand, what it what, you know, what the insight was and, like, use that to explore for new content themselves as opposed to just kind of being spoon fed, an answer. Because when you're spoon fed an answer and you don't know why, then, of course, it becomes very easy to just make sure people listen to the same kind of, like, stratosphere of, of music and don't ever, like, expose themselves to, like, anything outside of that. So I thought it would you know, by instead having, like, a visual knowledge map of music, it would make people more comfortable branching out from what they know to what they don't know because it would show them the connections between them. So, you know, I that was just like this idea I had, was, you know, kinda, like, toying around with it for a bit. A couple years later, I wound up going to this, festival, called, lighting in a bottle.\n\nIt's like, they call it, like, a transformative festival. And I guess it it's, like, kind of it's, like, you know, very new agey, but, like, the new age y kind of vibe, like, borrows these ideas almost from socialism, but but, like, not really. But, like, it's to\n\nSpeaker 0: be honest with you.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. But it's, like, you know, this idea of, like, community, like, people would, form they call them tribes and, like, you know, they would, like, come in tribes and, you know, people would kinda have, like, these open, like, art installations or, like, their camp would be, like, set up very, like, artistically, and, like, maybe you could just, like, walk around. Like, it was very much more open and kind of, less, corporate y than, like, a Coachella or, like, other, like, festivals that I've been to. And I wound up, befriending this group of people called, like, First Kiss Society. They called themselves, and they were, this, I guess, collective, like, basically, the a tribe that was based around tea.\n\nSo they were really into, like, tea and, like, different kinds of tea and, like, the the different healing powers that each tea had, and they would, like, make tea and, you know, give it out to people. And I was like, this is really cool. Like, I like the idea of people just coming around coming together around something they care about and, like, trying to make that into a service for people. But when I when I thought about it and I thought about, like, the people I knew and, like, what they're into, I was like, we could do something way more grand. Like, not still, like, you know, this tea or whatever, but, like, there's, like, a lot that we could accomplish if we took that kind of mentality of, like, we're gonna, like, work together in solidarity to achieve this rather than, oh, I'm just gonna, like, try and go, like, get a job at Google, and that's gonna be, you know, my story.\n\nAnd so, you know, I knew what I I kinda wanted this to, be focused around. You know, I was really interested in, like, data privacy and sort of, like, online autonomy and the opportunity to, create a more equitable kind of system, using technology. And, you know, the the idea, like, kind of, formed from there, I think yeah. I think, with, like, you know, at the time and I think after that, it's just, like, things kinda happen in, like, current events and stuff that, like, made people more aware of, like, the the kind of issues that I was talking about. You know, when I first sort of came to my friends, like, talking about, like, oh, like, we should make a cooperative.\n\nWell, I think at first, I like\n\nSpeaker 0: Maybe it's a good time to because I was gonna ask why\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhmm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Why design this as a cooperative?\n\nSpeaker 1: Right.\n\nSpeaker 0: And how how does that, you know, how does that internally work, the cooperative structure in in, like, such a such a system or in such a project like Aficionado? Hey, everyone. If you're enjoying this interview so far and you want to be sure that more content like this can be made, you can, of course, donate to my efforts through Patreon. So if you go to patreon.com/theblockchainsocialist you can donate starting at $3 per month or more to help me out and join other patrons like Andrew Sam Paul Matthew Kendra and the newest patron jb at the moment I spent more on this project and I've ever earned on it due to hosting costs so any amount really helps and in the future I'm hoping to make more complex bits of content to help get the message that blockchain doesn't need to be used to further entrench capitalist exploitation and we can use it to make something much better than that so that message resonates with you I hope you'll help out and if you can't help out financially don't worry understand one thing you can do to help is to subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you're using or leave a review you can as well join the different groups that are available out there there's the crypto leftist subreddit and the discord group which are the most, which are the biggest ones.\n\nOr you can follow me on Twitter at TB socialist. But that's it for me. So let's get back to the interview with Chibu from a future modern.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. So exactly. I was like I'd heard of cooperatives. When I first came up with this idea, I wasn't, like, gung ho on cooperatives or, like, you know, super like involved in the cooperative space at all. But I had heard of them and had, you know, like an intellectual idea of what they were.\n\nAnd, I just thought like, and then so I started, like, looking more into it, and it just sort of made sense as a way to, involve, you know, like, really in, just sort of, you know, passionate, like, dedicated people, in a way that made them feel like they had ownership. Because I think, like, when I first, came up with, area that, like, music AI project I talked about, I was like, oh, I wanted, like, a couple people to, like, help me, work on it. So I was like, yo, guys, let's make this company. I'm gonna have 90% equity, and, like, you guys are gonna have 5%. And it almost sound it, like, sounded ridiculous coming out of my mouth, but I was like, that's just how companies are set up.\n\nRight? So, like, that's what I say. And, you know, one of them was like, that's ridiculous. Like, why, like, why would I do that? And I was kinda like, well, that's just kinda, like, how it works.\n\nAnd he was like, no. Like, I'm not gonna do that. So, you know, I sort of had, like, that experience of, like, yeah. I mean, that really doesn't make sense. Like, I would not there's not anyone that I would work with that I would really wanna be, like, the boss of.\n\nYou know what I mean? So it's like\n\nSpeaker 0: I think I think there's, like Yeah. I feel like it's a lot of time. Like, I think it'd be interesting to know how many people actually would have created maybe a cooperative instead if they knew, you know, if they knew there was an alternative to, like, a start up or, like, a normal company. I mean, I I feel like a lot of people don't naturally want to be the boss over someone necessarily.\n\nSpeaker 1: Right. Yeah. And, yeah, there was some, person that I met who, like, went to MIT, and it was funny because, like, I met him at this, kinda like underground hip hop bar in LA, and, like, his French shirt had, like, some, like, nerdy, like, spelling out of, like, MIT. It was like, what is it? Like, e over c squared for, like, m, and then it was, like, square root of negative one for I.\n\nAnd it was, like, you know, super nerdy. And then I, like, looked at his trailer. I was like, oh, you went to MIT. And so it's like, obviously, we're, like, instant friends because, like, I, like, caught it. And, you know, then he was he was telling me about, like, oh, how he's really into the startup scene in LA and stuff.\n\nI was like, oh, this is my ticket. Like, you know, he's like this white dude. Like, I was like, this dude probably knows, like, everything and everyone about, like, making a startup. Like, this is, you know, how this is how I'm gonna, you know, this is this is gonna be my mentor. And then like, we started talking about it and he was like, yeah, the first thing you wanna do is like set up a C corporation and like make yourself like the sole owner.\n\nWas just like, well, yeah, I've already kind of been here and like I know like that's not gonna be the way that we're gonna do it. So like I, you know, realized then that I needed to find kinda like a new community, or at least just like the people that were doing something more similar to what I was doing. But, yeah, I think a lot of people don't know. And, you know, I just I just known about it because, you know, my interest in anarchism, and just, like, having debates with people about, like, oh, you know, like, how would we organize society without a government? So I would just like throw up, oh, you know, we just have like cooperatives and then there'd be councils.\n\nAnd this is just like, I haven't read like a lot of like literature or anything. This is just, like, me thinking, like, you know, as an economist, like, that's what my background is. Like, you know, maybe something like that would work. And then yeah. So once I, you know, actually started building it, that's when I was like, okay.\n\nI actually need to, like, learn kind of like what the history of this is, like, who's done this before, you know, what works, what doesn't. And, you know, also kind of realize that we in ourselves are a research project and, you know, creating best practices, for it in this kind of new world, especially because, you know, we want it to be enabled by blockchain, and we see Blockchain as a way for it to be able to kind of scale and be, like, the next, like, business model of the future.\n\nSpeaker 0: So how exactly does the cooperative work within a future model? How like, Yeah. Is it I imagine it's gotta be a little bit different than if you're using blockchain sometimes.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. So, yeah, I think that's still in flux, because I'm learning so much about not only blockchain, but, like, also alternatives to blockchain, like, basically, like, mutual credit systems and, like, the work that's been done there. And, you know, working with, this company called Resonate, which is another, which is a cooperatively owned meet music streaming coop, that we're partnering with. And\n\nSpeaker 0: Who I who I interviewed, Rich Jensen, the current CEO.\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I talked to Rich. I talked to Rich, you know, like, once a week or more.\n\nAnd and, yeah, you know, I think, in their sort of space, they have, like, mixed feelings or, like, split feelings about blockchain. You know, they but I think part of that is they, you know, used it before, and they see how kind of the fluctuations in the market and, like, the tokens can kind of, you know, mess up their operations. So I think it's important to kind of learn from that. Like, I was interested in, like, making our company a DAO, but then, it's like I look at how a DAO works, and it's basically, like, the amount of money you have is, like, the amount of votes you have. And it's just like that that doesn't make sense.\n\nLike, that's just\n\nSpeaker 0: I guess how you design it. Yeah. That's how how a lot of them are designed currently are very, unimaginative when it comes to, they sort of take on just like a capitalist form.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. It's just like a decentralized capitalism. Yeah. But, yeah. Yeah.\n\nI would say it's, it's pretty unimaginative. But, I mean, I guess there's, like, a different way to do it, but then there's, like, there's not necessarily the template for it. So it's like Yeah. It can't necessarily be the thing we do right now because, you know, we're gonna be spending all this time trying to figure it out. So I think right now, you know, the way that's set up is just, like, we have different projects that are considered different cooperatives.\n\nAnd then there's sport sort of, like, under the future modern umbrella. So we have area, which is that, music, like, visualized AI, startup, I guess. We have Artel, which is, like, this art collective, blockchain art collective that I was talking about. We have Estate, which, isn't meant to be, a way for blockchain to provide housing, But it rolls out in a multi phase process because the first question is, like, okay. If you want, a blockchain to provide people free housing, like, how do you get actually acquire the housing that you're gonna then give to people?\n\nAnd, like, how do you move housing from the sort of traditional financial system into, like, this cooperative system. And so the program is to, iteratively gain more leverage to be able to as inexpensively and as sort of, like, efficiently and quickly as possible, buy back, property in our neighborhoods and have them basically stewarded by, you you know, like, community organizers, community leaders, just marginalized, groups in those in those neighborhoods and then have rules for how we, share it out, make you know, some mix between, sharing it to kind of people who are in in the, like, membership group and then, like, renting it out to people who are out of the membership group so that you can fund, like, basically, subsidize, the services that you're giving to people in the membership group. And then, you know, ideally, after time, it's like we we control enough of this housing that we can actually start, like, making demands. So that is kind of, like, what we're doing with that, which, you know you know, this idea of, like, giving people housing with blockchain is a great idea. And I was just, like, this is my concept of, like, how we would get there.\n\nAnd, then we have those are kinda like the three projects that are kinda initialized, and we're trying to get up and running. And then there there are other projects that are sort of, being ideated, like, having some kind of, like, life sciences division where, you know, we could work on things like legalized like, weed legalization and making sure that's, like, equitable, making sure, you know, helping, like, farming co ops get set up. Like, we have, like, a lot of, people with, like, earth systems, civil engineering, kinda like environmental engineering and science background. So mobilizing that to, you know, provide different services for the community, improve perhaps provide, like, educational experiences as well. So it's like kids can learn, like, how to like, it's like if you're gonna take, like, an economics class, why isn't the economics class on, like, cooperative economics and, like, how you can work your with your, like, classmates to, you know, create, like, a self sustaining farm or, like, whatever it is.\n\nSo, you know, that's, that's kinda, like, how it's set up. And then people can kinda, like, move between projects. We're discussing right now if we wanna be, like, a a a collective or a traditional cooperative. I think, you know, the idea is, like, a collective is, like, completely direct, decision making, direct democratic decision making. And then, like, a cooperative that's not a collective would potentially have, like, a board of directors that gets elected.\n\nAnd we are thinking, like, we might have, like, a mix of both. Like, there's, a board of directors, but it's rotating. And so if you want to, like, have, a certain position of power or, like, responsibility, you can, like, rotate into that. And and, yeah, we actually just, started, working with, a financial adviser who actually comes from I I wanna say he comes from, like, M and a, but he comes from, like, a traditional, finance background, but he's really interested in, like, cooperatives and, like, helping them get structured. So he's been, really helpful in, like, figuring out, like, how our equity structure works because, you know, right now we're not funded or we have, like, a small amount of, like, angel, money from one of our members.\n\nBut, you know, we're applying for grants and, like, looking into spark sponsorships and potentially looking at what investment would look like. And, you know, so he's giving us tips on, like, how to, like, structure our equity and, how to, like, basically, set up our core corporate structure, how to set up, like, our payout structure for our members, to be able to, like, maintain a maintain a healthy business while we are, you know, trying to achieve these lofty goals and visions.\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah. So then, I mean, it sounds like you guys are making, some progress. But how would someone, like, a listener right now, how would they go about maybe becoming a member, of the cooperative?\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. I think, the first thing to do would probably just be to reach out. Like, follow us on on, our web two and web three spaces. You know, we're really active on scents, like, the Hive, the Hive blogging space, as well as, like, you know, like Twitter, Instagram, whatever. Actually, I guess, this financial advisor that we started working with is a good example.\n\nHe just reached out, essentially saying, like, he wants to help, and he sort of was, like, specifically, like, here's how. And, you know, we just happen to, like, really need, that kind of help, you know, and I didn't, and I've been looking for, you know, people who could give us more advice on that. You know, I talked to, like, another financial adviser, but he was more so on, like, investments and partnerships kinds of things. So, like, he could help us with that, but he can really help us with, like, how do we get, like, actually set up internally. And so, yeah, it was sort of just, like, right place, right time.\n\nAnd, like, you know, now, you know, it'll still take kind of, like, developing a relationship, but it would you know, I think it would be great if, you know, he wound up, you know, coming on or at least just being, an adviser in, like, a official capacity. I think the way that we kinda wanna structure in general is, like, first, you would be an employee. So, you know, you would have, like, a a three month, six month provisional, period. And then, you know, if, you still wanna, join and we still want you to join, then, you know, we would have a vote. And, barring any, like, extreme grievance that someone, like, brought up against you, you would then be able to join.\n\nAnd, yeah, right now, it's really, project based, but I think it'll it'll soon develop into kinda like a fully fleshed out enterprise.\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah. So then right now, if someone is listening and they want to get part take part, then they should direct message you essentially on, one of the Yeah.\n\nSpeaker 1: Or or again. Yeah. Or yeah. Any of our, any of our members, we are on key base as well. So, I'm a future modern on key base.\n\nAnyone that, follows me is, pretty much a member. I don't know how you, like, let people see your, your groups on Keybase. But if you if you definitely, if you message me on Keybase, I'll I'll respond and, and, we can figure out how you can see the rest of the people in the team as well. Cool. Yeah.\n\nAnd we're working on a website and stuff, so then you'll be able to have more visibility into who we are. But, yeah, I think if you if you, find us on social media and start clicking around, pretty much only, retweet other people who are in the collective. So you'll start to find out who we are.\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah. Nice. So I want to go quickly back to the eState project that you mentioned. Yeah. Because you mentioned that, you know, part of this the goals of, Future Modern and, like, the movement we're trying to do is, like, empower disenfranchised communities.\n\nAnd I thought eState was a really I mean, it's a really, like, material example, I think, of\n\nSpeaker 1: Right.\n\nSpeaker 0: Helping out disenfranchised communities. So I thought maybe you can explain a bit how how something like eState, would help disenfranchised communities and, like, maybe you can even specify which disenfranchised communities you think this would help.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. I think, it would be geared towards, basically black and brown urban communities, people who are at risk of displacement by gentrification, facing rising rents, that's who we really want to, target with this. And\n\nSpeaker 0: This is probably especially, like, cogent since I mean, at the moment with the with the corona crisis and on The US, that's Right. People have lost, I think, you know, all you got was the $1,200 stimulus check and, like, I think you're losing unemployment benefits as well for a lot of people. So and the moratorium on evictions, I think, is is ending.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Nationally, it is. I think in California, it officially did. I don't know what the deal is in LA.\n\nIt's very, it's very confusing too because I'm reading that they extended it, but then people are saying that they did it. And it's like, yeah. It's it's really bad. I think what this would, provide people is, first of all, a way to, share information on their housing experiences, their landlord, their building, basically review them and, start attaching, like, a like, a reputation and a history to them. Because, when you apply to rent somewhere, you know, you have to give them your Social Security number, all your your bank account, like, your rental history, your referrals, all this in for basically, everything there is to know about you, but you don't know anything about your landlord.\n\nYou don't know how many people they've evicted before, like, what, their, like, statistics are on, like, who they've, like, let rent versus who they haven't, you know, what their, like, rent price has been over time.\n\nSpeaker 0: Let's see. Landlords ask for a lot of information before you can rent while you don't know jack shit about your landlord.\n\nSpeaker 1: Right. So, kinda looking to to flip that on its head. And so what I like about eState is we wanna set it up as a dual like a like a dual power system, or a counter power system, I guess, is maybe a less, encumbered word for it, where you have members and nonmembers. Members are essentially seeded with, like, community organizations, and then they can invite people to join. And, those members would be the people who are allowed to, make reviews, share information, make posts, and earn, credits essentially for, sharing that information.\n\nMeanwhile, nonmembers can, see the information that's being posted but not post themselves. And we're thinking that, potentially, there's the opportunity for them to pay for information, whether it's, information that's been kept private because, you know, whoever offered it wants to make that information members only or, information that just hasn't been provided, you would be able to essentially, like, fundraise for that that piece of inform for someone to come in and and and fill in that piece of information. So the first step would basically be an information market for housing that was led by, yeah, kind of disenfranchised communities, in in urban areas and in cities. And, in doing that, you can first establish, like, a fairly priced housing market and a fairly kinda informed housing market, which I think is, like, a super important first step because the housing the real estate market is so shady. We and, you know, it is very discriminatory, and, they, you know, jack prices up for no reason.\n\nAnd, just being able to, like, show people that I think is is hugely important. We are working with this engineer who, runs his, his own real estate development company, and he, is, like, born in El Salvador. Basically, came from nothing now, like works at, Department of of of Water and Power. Basically, like, Rex to Rich's story, and is really interested in, like, how, you know, he can use what he knows to make housing more affordable for her people and especially interested in, like, how tech can kinda accelerate that and enable that. So we wind up meeting just on some, oh, like, you are really into revolutionizing industries through tech.\n\nYou know, what what do you got for, like, the real estate industry? And then, you know, I was like, well, I have some ideas. Obviously, being able to, like, collectively invest in real estate, I think, would, you know, open up opportunities for wealth for people that, you know, weren't up, available. But I wanna hear, like, what you think is, like, the issue kind of in what what issues you see in the real estate industry. And he was like, yeah.\n\nThe the kind of, like, the most egregious thing that I see is just the amount of lying, corruption, just misrepresentation of information that occurs in the real estate industry. And, if you were to remove that, I feel like prices would be a lot more fair and affordable for people. And then once you have that sort of fairness, then you can layer in a lot of the things that people have already tried and then, combined with things that in terms of, like, fractional investment and what have you combined with things that people haven't tried, like providing free housing for people when, you know, new spots become available or having, like, real estate development, services available so that when communities gain control of housing, they can, develop them into, you know, more sustainable, more dense, more, just kind of efficient buildings and essentially, quote, unquote, gentrified, like, renew their urban, you know, the urban environment without it causing displacement and instead just benefiting from, their, communities becoming kinda more developed. That's it.\n\nSpeaker 0: I think that makes sense. I mean, real estate is the fuck sometimes. I mean, prices I mean, land the the power dynamic between landlord and the renter is just so, I mean, obvious and egregious. Yeah. But so maybe to stem from that and maybe look at the broader picture, I'm curious to hear what you think the plan is for a future modern to make sociopolitical change in general, and what are the long term goals of a future modern?\n\nSpeaker 1: You know, I think something like e state, something like, tree roots, which is our kind of envisioned life sciences division. Like, once you like, obviously, like, the art and the music is cool and stuff, and it gives you it's really, like, more of, like, a marketing tool, where it's, like, okay. We're out here. You know we're cool. You know you know we're, doing these big things.\n\nOkay. Now we can, like, get into the material world and, like, you know, make some real change. And I think it's like so once you are sort of working and giving people, like, material goods and material wealth, then you kind of have, like, a bargaining chip where you can kind of start playing in the political sphere, whether you know, I think in it starts locally. You know, like, I could imagine a situation where, for instance, one of our members works with this, indigenous collective that, has a lot of, weed growing going on, but they also have, like, a a law arm where they, do, like, youth outreach and basically, like, keeping youth out of gangs and, like, jails and stuff. And through that, they've developed, like, this really solid, like, community network that's been going on for, like, thirty, forty years.\n\nAnd, you can imagine a situation where they are, you know, they get kinda, like, integrated into the future modern infrastructure. We set them up with, like, some, like, blockchain, like, supply chain like, supply chain system. Now they're, like, flushed with cash. We use, like, their, weed, kind of, proceeds to, like, grow food and, like, grow, like, herbal medicines and, like so they're already doing something where they have, like, a dispensary. And then, like, in the dispensary, they have, like, a health clinic.\n\nSo, you know, they're, you know, providing services, that are kind of being subsidized with, what they're selling. And, you know, once you're sort of doing that at scale, maybe you can start to, like, push boundaries a little bit. Like, start, like, growing a farm that, like, may not be legal technically, but it's like the entire city is behind this. So what are you necessarily going to do about it? And then, you know, I could see, like, basically, the the end goal is to create is to be our own, like, quote unquote state or, like, non state or, yeah, I guess, anarchist state where probably, you know, wouldn't just be us.\n\nIt would be a bunch of other, you know, techno tech enabled cooperatives. And we are sort of in this decentralized, like, metropolis where, you know, we have a lot of kind of, like, resources in common that we share with each other. I mean, at that point, we probably, you know, even have, like, a security system because there we we, will potentially have, like, real enemies. What we wanna be is, you know, living in a compound, like, doing experiments, making art, like, growing our own food, and, like, giving away the surplus to, you know, like, the community. And, and, you know, basically, that kind of, like, anarchist, like, utopia, quote, unquote.\n\nYou know, that's, like, the the twenty year, thirty year plan. Yeah. You know? Basically creating, like, a dual a counter power system, like, a a a self sufficient alternative to, everything that exists right now.\n\nSpeaker 0: I like I like the lofty goal.\n\nSpeaker 1: I think, I think\n\nSpeaker 0: it's a lot of people can identify, I think, especially maybe those who listen, like, wanting this type of system and just, like, knowing that we can provide. We just produce some food, some, like, excess of different products that we can share with those who need it rather than, just for profit as it is as it is now.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah.\n\nSpeaker 0: I can identify with that.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. And, I think, there are ways like, I'm really interested in ways that we kind of exploit the capitalist system back. Like, I'm very down to, like, my, one of our artists was saying that we should, like like, get investment and then, like, dissolve the company and then, like, make an entirely new one, like, which I don't know if I'm like if I'm like that kind of, like, debonair, but, like, I would definitely be down, like, this idea of, like, ethical branding or, I they call it ethical advertising. I I, have another term for which is brand laundering. The, you know, like, all these, corporations have, like, you know, some marketing, some budget for marketing.\n\nAnd it's like instead of paying all that money to, like, Facebook, Instagram, Google, Twitter, you could, pay that money as a donation into this network and community of, businesses and cooperatives and nonprofits and and just, like, mutual aid services that we have. And then, like, maybe your name gets, like, attached to it in, like, fine print. And, like, that's, like, the way that you, like, put yourself out in the community, as opposed to, you know, just, like, flipping ads. So it's like, yeah, once you kind of have the ears and eyes and, like, attention of people, you know, there are definitely ways where I'm willing to, like, take capitalist money to kinda, like, contribute to these goals because, you know, we don't really have time to kinda be purists about it. It's more, of, like, how do we protect their influence from creeping in, which, you know, like, one thing that we wanna do is, like, have a small amount of equity that's, like, allowed, the app that investors are allowed to buy, but then they it doesn't give them any voting rights, which I found out that there's apparently, some precedent for it because Mark Zuckerberg, because I was telling this to my friend.\n\nHe was like, oh, yeah. Just like Zuckerberg. And I was like, oh, what are you talking about? He was like, oh, like, Zuckerberg has the only is the only person on the voting rights in Facebook. I was like, what?\n\nLike, that is I mean, that is crazy, but it's also not surprising. It's like if if Zach can do that and, like, keep all the power for himself, then we can definitely do that and keep the power for all of our members and, like, the community that we, service. But, yeah. I mean, but, you know, I think it it's, something we still are looking into. There's also, like, potentially sponsorships or, like, another, way of, you know, just kinda of of being able to keep it going.\n\nYeah. You know, I think it's like taking, like, bits and chunks and pieces off of it, gradually over time.\n\nSpeaker 0: Well, this is a really interesting, conversation, and the project is really interesting. I hope people can, check it out. But maybe you can for the last question, just where can people look, where should they look to find out more about a future modern if they want to learn more?\n\nSpeaker 1: I think, best place right now is our Open Collective. Opencollective.com/afuturemodern. You know, we're also a future modern on everything, Twitter, Instagram, since, Hive. So I would just follow us to keep up with us. Our website will be dropping soon.\n\nSo definitely follow us so you can, keep up with that. I'm also on, Discord and and Telegram is the same thing, a future modern. So, Keybase, a future modern. So, definitely follow us and feel free to message us. Open to discussion anytime.\n\nCool. Well, thanks a lot, and good luck with, with the projects. Thank you. Thank you for having me. This was super interesting, and, I was really happy to get the practice, to talk about\n\nSpeaker 0: the stuff. Anytime.\n\nSpeaker 1: Thanks.", "paragraphs": [ { "sentences": [ { "text": "Hello, everyone.", "start": 12.674999, "end": 13.235 }, { "text": "This is Blockchain Socialist, and you're listening to another new episode.", "start": 13.235, "end": 17.335 }, { "text": "And today, I'm doing an interview with Chibout Ichiban, a founding member of a future modern network of cooperatives, which is delivering liberation tech to the masses through arts, culture, and basic services.", "start": 17.555, "end": 31.849998 }, { "text": "Hey, Chibu.", "start": 32.39, "end": 33.03 }, { "text": "How are you doing?", "start": 33.03, "end": 33.85 } ], "start": 12.674999, "end": 33.85, "num_words": 52.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Good.", "start": 34.55, "end": 34.87 }, { "text": "Good.", "start": 34.87, "end": 35.19 }, { "text": "How are you?", "start": 35.19, "end": 35.93 } ], "start": 34.55, "end": 35.93, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Pretty good.", "start": 36.71, "end": 37.53 }, { "text": "So, the future modern cooperative is a pretty interesting project that's, that I've come across, and I was curious to hear from you.", "start": 37.75, "end": 47.575 }, { "text": "Maybe you can explain a bit what it is and what got you started on it.", "start": 47.715, "end": 52.74 } ], "start": 36.71, "end": 52.74, "num_words": 41.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 53.940002, "end": 54.440002 }, { "text": "So, basically, I I wanted to create a movement that would move us towards a more democratic society by kind of working the levers that I felt like the working class had the most, kind of leverage on.", "start": 54.66, "end": 81.284996 }, { "text": "So, you know, when I look at the way the economy is set up, it's like you have, certain industries where the people who, well, really in any industry, the people who create the value aren't really the ones that get to keep it.", "start": 82.065, "end": 103.205 }, { "text": "But you have certain, you have certain industries, especially in, like, the creative, creative economies, like knowledge economies, these kind of things that have the ability to much more readily, create a different system because of the Internet and because of, technology that we have or just because of inherently how they work.", "start": 104.625, "end": 135.605 }, { "text": "It doesn't necessarily take a lot of this sort of upstart capital.", "start": 135.605, "end": 139.94499 } ], "start": 53.940002, "end": 139.94499, "num_words": 148.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So, like, for instance, if you're, like, an artist or if you're, a a researcher, or, you know, you're you're a musician, it's kinda like you can create a lot of value just with yourself.", "start": 140.005, "end": 156.155 }, { "text": "And, also, you know, these people, tend to be, like, marginalized, and, those industries tend to have a lot of, like, social influence.", "start": 156.375, "end": 169.515 }, { "text": "So it was like, if we could get certain industries to work in a more cooperative manner, and if we could kind of make sure that, marginalized communities these marginalized communities that kind of have the social power are in empowered by technology to be able to kind of lead those industries, then we could, essentially set up a model that people could look at and say, this is what we're, like, exiting to.", "start": 170.89, "end": 206.26 }, { "text": "Alright.", "start": 208.08, "end": 208.58 }, { "text": "Go ahead.", "start": 210.335, "end": 210.44167 } ], "start": 140.005, "end": 210.44167, "num_words": 135.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Using using, areas which aren't so capital intensive.", "start": 210.495, "end": 216.595 }, { "text": "Things like I mean, art, you don't need, you know, a million dollar loan to get up and running to make art.", "start": 218.015, "end": 224.515 } ], "start": 210.495, "end": 224.515, "num_words": 30.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right.", "start": 225.57999, "end": 226.07999 }, { "text": "Right.", "start": 226.21999, "end": 226.71999 }, { "text": "Or just things that are kind of inherently just decentralized.", "start": 228.85999, "end": 232.71999 }, { "text": "I mean, you could, there there are things like like sex work or, like, the cannabis industry where it's kinda like, marginalized people aren't allowed to make money or, like, work in society in sort of these more traditional and prestigious ways, so they have to get it kind of on the edges.", "start": 234.06, "end": 260.33002 }, { "text": "But then it's like those edge ways of making money become mainstream and then sort of, like, get co opted, from those, like, marginalized people who were, like, basically the ones that, like, kept it around and, like, legitimized it in the first place.", "start": 260.39, "end": 276.295 } ], "start": 225.57999, "end": 276.295, "num_words": 109.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So, you know, like, it it could even be, like, like, one thing that we wanna do is, like, create a lobby for black owned weed businesses and basically set it up to where if we're gonna, like, legalize weed, we need to have, like, 50% of the of the employees at these companies be, like, black or indigenous people.", "start": 277.315, "end": 301.76498 }, { "text": "And that needs to be, like, at every, like, level of the business.", "start": 301.76498, "end": 306.245 }, { "text": "It can't just be, like, the entry level people or, like, where you fill those roles at.", "start": 306.245, "end": 312.21 }, { "text": "So, I think we're interested in like attacking it from from different angles, but like really kind of seeing like what those influential markets and, kinda communities and societies are that if we were to decentralize and sort of democratize that, it would act as both, like, a model of influence and, like, a, Yeah.", "start": 312.43, "end": 337.68 }, { "text": "Like, a bargaining chip and, like, politically and power wise to be able to, make the changes that we wanna see in society.", "start": 337.91998, "end": 345.53998 } ], "start": 277.315, "end": 345.53998, "num_words": 168.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 346.4, "end": 346.63998 }, { "text": "I think it's a interesting point about, at least, the marijuana business from what I've read is that, you know, something like 90 plus percent of weed business owners are all white even though, the vast majority of the people who are in jail for, possession of marijuana are people of color.", "start": 346.63998, "end": 366.285 } ], "start": 346.4, "end": 366.285, "num_words": 53.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right.", "start": 366.745, "end": 367.245 }, { "text": "And it's so it's like there is, energy around kind of the racial justice aspect of legalizing weed, which is obviously, like, a great argument.", "start": 367.55, "end": 382.82498 }, { "text": "But if we wanna build a coalition that would actually be able to get this done, that's, like, greater than just, like, the quote, unquote SJWs, there's different arguments for it.", "start": 383.285, "end": 394.405 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 394.405, "end": 394.645 }, { "text": "Like, you can look at it from, like, an economic stimulus perspective.", "start": 394.645, "end": 399.11002 } ], "start": 366.745, "end": 399.11002, "num_words": 70.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Like, basically, I'm working, on, like, ideating this project with, a friend of mine who I actually met through his music, but he was in pharmacy school at the time.", "start": 399.25, "end": 413.295 }, { "text": "And, like, now he's a pharmacy doctor, and he works in, like, pharmacy marketing and policy.", "start": 413.295, "end": 418.675 }, { "text": "So he's, basically, you know, drafting up the the reports and proposal and proposals that are going out to, like, the FDA and, like, hospitals and, you know, these kind of, like, institutions to sell and approve drugs.", "start": 418.815, "end": 434.78 }, { "text": "So he kinda sees exactly how that kind of, like, wheeling and dealing goes on behind the scenes.", "start": 434.78, "end": 440.845 }, { "text": "And, he was essentially telling me that he was reading this report that said, like, if they because, he's from New York.", "start": 441.30502, "end": 449.465 } ], "start": 399.25, "end": 449.465, "num_words": 124.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And he said if if when if and when weed is legalized in New York, that 40% of the jobs in New York will be in the cannabis industry.", "start": 449.465, "end": 461.00998 }, { "text": "So you're talking about like a huge potential economic boom, potential to provide jobs to millions and millions of people if this happens.", "start": 461.38998, "end": 472.425 }, { "text": "And then you also have the kind of health, health care, health, public health policy aspect of it where cannabis responds favorably to more symptoms and more ailments than any other pretty much any other substance.", "start": 472.485, "end": 492.315 }, { "text": "So that's a huge threat to big pharma because once you legalize weed, it's like people don't have to, like, buy opioids anymore.", "start": 492.77502, "end": 502.43 }, { "text": "People, you know, wind up, like, not getting addicted to heroin.", "start": 502.43, "end": 507.65 } ], "start": 449.465, "end": 507.65, "num_words": 122.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's like, that that benefits everyone except for, you know, big pharma, the people who are, like, peddling all these all these prescription drugs.", "start": 507.71, "end": 517.195 }, { "text": "So then they become kind of, like, the big, enemy to, like, to, like, fight against there.", "start": 517.195, "end": 524.715 }, { "text": "But it's like, if you can, create some sort of deal where you're you're sitting at a table and you can say, you know, we work with these clients, these, like, black and indigenous owned, cooperatively owned, cannabis companies.", "start": 524.715, "end": 541.485 }, { "text": "Wouldn't it be great if, like, when weed was legalized, we had some sort of system where, like, the pharma wants to get into it.", "start": 541.625, "end": 548.58496 }, { "text": "Like, they have to, meet these, standards of, like, racial equity, but that will get you into the business.", "start": 548.58496, "end": 557.04004 } ], "start": 507.71, "end": 557.04004, "num_words": 124.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And then, like, we and then we'll set up the law so that we sort of are, positioned like, our clients are positioned in the best way to sort of profit when when these, laws go into go into effect.", "start": 557.04004, "end": 575.375 }, { "text": "So it's, like, definitely being willing to, like, play ball in the, like, sort of electoral space of things.", "start": 575.375, "end": 582.675 }, { "text": "But in the meantime, gaining that sort of, like, social and community power to where it's like, we have the ability to say we need to sit down at a table because we have control over, resources and essentially, like, the support of the people enough to be, like, you know, to have to have something to, like, give and, you know, that the other side wants, basically.", "start": 583.96, "end": 608.34503 } ], "start": 557.04004, "end": 608.34503, "num_words": 127.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 609.60504, "end": 610.10504 }, { "text": "So a future modern is really, it's a cooperative, but it's meant to be a larger movement meant to empower", "start": 610.58, "end": 617.4 } ], "start": 609.60504, "end": 617.4, "num_words": 21.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 617.78, "end": 618.28 } ], "start": 617.78, "end": 618.28, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Marginalized communities and using arts as, like, one of the ways to sort of show how it can work.", "start": 618.74, "end": 628.065 } ], "start": 618.74, "end": 628.065, "num_words": 19.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 628.125, "end": 628.625 }, { "text": "Exactly.", "start": 628.765, "end": 629.265 } ], "start": 628.125, "end": 629.265, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So what are some of the projects that, that you guys are working on, and where exactly does blockchain come into all of it?", "start": 630.365, "end": 637.905 } ], "start": 630.365, "end": 637.905, "num_words": 24.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 639.405, "end": 639.885 }, { "text": "So I feel like blockchain will probably come into every project that we work on because it is the one thing that allows you to essentially force people to act in good behavior without using violence.", "start": 639.885, "end": 660.635 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 661.175, "end": 661.495 }, { "text": "So it's like, if you set up a system that where it's like, not only can you do can you not do the wrong thing, but you're incentivized to do the right thing.", "start": 661.495, "end": 671.22003 }, { "text": "It's like, I don't see any way any other way, of getting us into, like, a a a global large scale, kind of, cooperative mode of operation and production.", "start": 671.68, "end": 686.22504 } ], "start": 639.405, "end": 686.22504, "num_words": 100.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So", "start": 686.765, "end": 687.265 } ], "start": 686.765, "end": 687.265, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "That's assuming that, like, this is a blockchain that is designed to incentivize such, such behavior.", "start": 687.72504, "end": 693.66504 } ], "start": 687.72504, "end": 693.66504, "num_words": 16.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Exactly.", "start": 694.28503, "end": 694.78503 }, { "text": "So, yeah, the question is, like, incentivizing it in such a way where it's not, like, just a tool of speculation that, like, financiers use to get richer and, is actually actively distributing power to, like, the base, you know, the kind of base, like, people in the system.", "start": 694.84503, "end": 716.945 }, { "text": "So as far as, projects well, recently, I've been spending a lot of time on this, art blockchain project.", "start": 717.405, "end": 725.34503 }, { "text": "So there's a lot of really interesting things now that you can do with blockchain to give yourself true ownership over your art in the digital space.", "start": 725.60004, "end": 735.62 } ], "start": 694.28503, "end": 735.62, "num_words": 96.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 736.16003, "end": 736.66003 } ], "start": 736.16003, "end": 736.66003, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And so I think that's another thing with with blockchain that that ties in is the fact that it gives you true ownership.", "start": 736.80005, "end": 746.26495 }, { "text": "And prior to blockchain, there actually was not a concept of true ownership.", "start": 746.40497, "end": 752.985 }, { "text": "And so now that you can own something without there being a third party custodian, the possibilities for people to own their own creations and build wealth from them become, you know, endless.", "start": 754.35, "end": 777.795 }, { "text": "So with that project, I'm really interested in how do we get these kind of new, like, they call it, like, web three, or just, you know, distributed web based, projects out to the masses.", "start": 778.85, "end": 795.625 }, { "text": "And to me, it's like, well, the masses aren't gonna come if the artists and the content aren't there.", "start": 796.165, "end": 802.585 } ], "start": 736.80005, "end": 802.585, "num_words": 123.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "But if I, can show the artist kind of, like, what the value of this is to them, and they, you know, start taking ownership of it and, like, buying into it and, seeing that work for them, then it's like we can create a movement where we're bringing people who aren't even really hip to blockchain or aren't really maybe they've heard of Bitcoin, but they're not really they don't really know, like, everything else that can be done with it.", "start": 802.805, "end": 836.34 }, { "text": "And at the same time, we are creating a new culture within the blockchain space where it's not the the culture isn't about the blockchain itself.", "start": 836.42004, "end": 851.30005 }, { "text": "That's just, like, something that's happening in the back in the background that allows, like, real culture to, like, emerge and and flourish.", "start": 851.30005, "end": 860.065 }, { "text": "So super excited about that project.", "start": 861.96497, "end": 865.345 }, { "text": "We have about 15 artists that we've, you know, started signing up for, like, wallets and, getting on to Scent.", "start": 866.33997, "end": 876.98 } ], "start": 802.805, "end": 876.98, "num_words": 157.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I don't know if you've, heard of Scent, but they're pretty cool Yeah.", "start": 876.98, "end": 881.08 }, { "text": "Projects.", "start": 881.83496, "end": 882.315 }, { "text": "So, you know, having them all, like, write intro posts on Scent and then, you know, getting in them into you know, the the next kind of plan is to, like, get them into, like, these art markets and these sort of art channels, like, all the sort of, like, Discords and and Telegram that people are selling, quote, unquote, crypto art in.", "start": 882.315, "end": 905.03 }, { "text": "And, yeah, I was just having a talk with one of our artists, yesterday or the day before.", "start": 906.61, "end": 913.365 }, { "text": "And, you know, it just went from this conversation of kinda extreme despair coming from him, you know, someone, who I've known for years, I know is extremely talented, like a seminal talent.", "start": 913.985, "end": 931.49 } ], "start": 876.98, "end": 931.49, "num_words": 128.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And it's been proven too.", "start": 931.63, "end": 933.15 }, { "text": "Like, this, artist has basically curated and, like, mentored and developed some of the biggest kind of, like, underground artists in, like, the last five years.", "start": 933.15, "end": 946.875 }, { "text": "And then it's like his music is even kind of more original than theirs.", "start": 946.875, "end": 950.41504 }, { "text": "And, you know, is it, you know, maybe isn't necessarily doesn't necessarily have the same mainstream appeal, but it's like, if the same people who knew, like, Lil Peep, who's, like, an artist that he mentored, if they all knew that, like, Jimmy v was someone who mentored Lil Peep, and that was, like, actual history that, like, people could, like, easily see, I think it would be, you know, at least some of those little fans would have to, like, give him a chance because it's, like, you know, they might have heard people talk about Jimmy v, but then, you know, they think he's black or whatever because he's not popular.", "start": 950.875, "end": 995.02997 }, { "text": "So it's like this, or not as popular.", "start": 995.09, "end": 998.44495 } ], "start": 931.63, "end": 998.44495, "num_words": 166.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know?", "start": 998.44495, "end": 998.845 }, { "text": "Like, he he definitely, like, has friends and good streams, but he's not on that same level.", "start": 998.845, "end": 1004.225 }, { "text": "And, you know, most, music listeners are kind of it's like, I'm only gonna give you your this attend my attention if you're already popular because that's the only way that I know it's, like, worth it for me to, like, pay attention to you.", "start": 1004.605, "end": 1019.84 }, { "text": "So it becomes this, cycle.", "start": 1019.84, "end": 1022.18 }, { "text": "That's why that's why you have, like, seven I think, 77% of streaming and 60% of touring goes to the top 1% of artists.", "start": 1022.56, "end": 1033.285 } ], "start": 998.44495, "end": 1033.285, "num_words": 93.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And this is, like, already in an industry where, music artists only get 11 of, like, all like, the total profit in that, is generated by the music industry itself.", "start": 1033.665, "end": 1047.36 }, { "text": "So it's, like, 89% of money that's made by music goes to managers and Yeah.", "start": 1047.36, "end": 1055.295 }, { "text": "Labels and whoever else.", "start": 1055.375, "end": 1056.8151 }, { "text": "And then of that 11%, like, sixty, seventy, 80 is going to the top 1% of artists.", "start": 1056.8151, "end": 1062.57 }, { "text": "So, you know, there definitely needs to be a better way.", "start": 1062.97, "end": 1067.9299 } ], "start": 1033.665, "end": 1067.9299, "num_words": 77.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I think there there can be.", "start": 1067.9299, "end": 1069.37 }, { "text": "I think, blockchain is a way to eventually decentralize record labels where you can just, basically have, like, your community be your record label.", "start": 1069.37, "end": 1081.935 }, { "text": "And instead of, you know, selling your rights to, some record company to be able to get access to marketing, you could have a situation where I I can see who in my network are kind of, like, the people who could get my, my art out to to receptive ears and essentially reward them whether it's through pay, whether it's through, oh, like, I can see through your blockchain identity that you, shared this message for me, and then, like, 500 people, like, saw that, saw my song through that.", "start": 1082.555, "end": 1129.67 }, { "text": "So then there's a smart contract that says, like, you know, whatever money comes through this, like, some some amount is gonna get split out to, like, the people that helped me, you know, put this together and sort of, promote it because, you know, that's that's what's happening at the end of the day.", "start": 1129.67, "end": 1149.0751 }, { "text": "Anyway, it's just behind closed doors and", "start": 1149.0751, "end": 1152.035 } ], "start": 1067.9299, "end": 1152.035, "num_words": 183.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's not recorded.", "start": 1153.27, "end": 1154.33 } ], "start": 1153.27, "end": 1154.33, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1154.63, "end": 1154.87 }, { "text": "Exactly.", "start": 1154.87, "end": 1155.35 }, { "text": "And and and be be centralized so that only a few people profit from it.", "start": 1155.35, "end": 1161.21 } ], "start": 1154.63, "end": 1161.21, "num_words": 17.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1162.39, "end": 1162.71 }, { "text": "I mean, it's I think that music is, like, a good sort of, like, area where, I think blockchain can be experimented with pretty safely and pretty Yeah.", "start": 1162.71, "end": 1175.465 }, { "text": "Innovatively.", "start": 1176.245, "end": 1176.745 }, { "text": "I think doing something where everything is recorded so much, like, in other different types of industries maybe isn't a fit.", "start": 1177.14, "end": 1184.58 }, { "text": "But definitely in music, I think, you know, sharing me sharing my you know, that I like this song from this, you know, artist is not it's not like a dangerous thing to it's it's, like, not a dangerous space to play in.", "start": 1184.58, "end": 1198.275 } ], "start": 1162.39, "end": 1198.275, "num_words": 94.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1198.735, "end": 1199.235 }, { "text": "That's definitely true.", "start": 1199.295, "end": 1200.595 }, { "text": "And, I feel like music is a lot more valuable than the money that we, than we pay for it.", "start": 1201.055, "end": 1210.03 }, { "text": "It's it's political power, because it's a soapbox.", "start": 1210.03, "end": 1214.51 }, { "text": "It's a way to get, a message out, not just through the music, but even, you know, just through the way that you dress, just like the the way that you associate.", "start": 1214.51, "end": 1224.885 } ], "start": 1198.735, "end": 1224.885, "num_words": 64.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's a way for, you know, black people to get representation, people to see us in in a different way.", "start": 1224.885, "end": 1232.105 }, { "text": "So, you know, I think it's really powerful if you, can really build a movement around music and art, and enable that through technology, it just it just gives, like, a new seed of power.", "start": 1233.845, "end": 1255.7849 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1256.485, "end": 1256.985 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1258.085, "end": 1258.485 }, { "text": "So, that's that's kind of, one project that we're working on.", "start": 1258.485, "end": 1264.41 } ], "start": 1224.885, "end": 1264.41, "num_words": 68.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Actually, that spans a couple projects.", "start": 1264.87, "end": 1267.75 }, { "text": "There's one that's, like, focused on art in the blockchain, and there's one that's focused on music and AI.", "start": 1267.75, "end": 1274.25 }, { "text": "But, you know, they're they'll probably work together with, you know, the AI being essentially how do you find who the people are that you need to support you.", "start": 1274.725, "end": 1286.585 }, { "text": "And then the blockchain being, like, the incentive structure that allows you to, cooperate, and and, remove kind of the centralized finance, structure from it.", "start": 1286.725, "end": 1301.655 }, { "text": "So and then you we're we are talking about eState, which is another project that is, you know, not involved in music and art.", "start": 1304.055, "end": 1313.3351 } ], "start": 1264.87, "end": 1313.3351, "num_words": 103.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's involved in housing.", "start": 1313.3351, "end": 1317.39 }, { "text": "Oh, before I go into that, should I talk about just briefly, like, why this came to be?", "start": 1317.53, "end": 1324.03 } ], "start": 1313.3351, "end": 1324.03, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1324.65, "end": 1324.9701 }, { "text": "Sure.", "start": 1324.9701, "end": 1325.29 }, { "text": "Why not?", "start": 1325.29, "end": 1325.6101 }, { "text": "Go for it.", "start": 1325.6101, "end": 1326.25 } ], "start": 1324.65, "end": 1326.25, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1326.25, "end": 1326.4901 }, { "text": "I mean, I was just, I had, come up with this sort of, music AI project when I was in college.", "start": 1326.4901, "end": 1334.3551 }, { "text": "I was really interested in, kinda like I was saying, how do we get original artists that then get buried under imitators, more kind of exposure and surface those to the that same kind of, community that is, consuming the more popular artists.", "start": 1334.7351, "end": 1357.615 }, { "text": "And, I because as a kid, I was really into, like, finding kinda new, independent or alternative or underground music, just like, you know, was tired of the fact that the radio played the same songs all the time.", "start": 1359.115, "end": 1377.0 }, { "text": "I was like, I know there has to be, you know, different music out there.", "start": 1377.0, "end": 1379.76 } ], "start": 1326.25, "end": 1379.76, "num_words": 119.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So I, like, started finding music online a lot, using blogs and stuff.", "start": 1379.76, "end": 1385.035 }, { "text": "And then as I got older and sort of met people who actually, make music, I sort of got disillusioned from the, like, blog space because I was meeting people who are, like, really talented, musicians.", "start": 1385.035, "end": 1398.64 }, { "text": "And I was like, yo, you're, you know, your music is just as good as, like, the stuff that I'm finding on, like, pigeons and planes or, like, stereo gum or whatever.", "start": 1398.64, "end": 1406.8201 }, { "text": "Why don't you just, like, submit your demo to them and then, like, you can, like, take a a year off college and, like, go tour or something?", "start": 1406.9601, "end": 1414.145 }, { "text": "They're like, no.", "start": 1414.145, "end": 1415.265 } ], "start": 1379.76, "end": 1415.265, "num_words": 112.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "That's not how there's that's, like, not how it works.", "start": 1415.265, "end": 1417.425 }, { "text": "It's not like this meritocracy where, like, everyone gets, like, a fair listen and then they just, like, choose completely based on the quality of the song, like, who or, like, the originality of the song, like, who, you know, they're gonna they're gonna showcase.", "start": 1417.425, "end": 1432.34 }, { "text": "It's very much about, like, who you know and, like, whether you can say, like, oh, like, I worked with someone that worked with someone that you worked with and, like, be able to, like, draw those common threads.", "start": 1432.34, "end": 1446.885 }, { "text": "So it's, like, sort of getting disillusioned from that.", "start": 1446.885, "end": 1450.2699 }, { "text": "At the same time, the kinda like Twitter was coming up.", "start": 1450.2699, "end": 1454.7699 } ], "start": 1415.265, "end": 1454.7699, "num_words": 114.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "SoundCloud, had just come out.", "start": 1454.99, "end": 1457.71 }, { "text": "So it was like this these new kind of information highways where it was very, it was, like, social media, but, like, a like, a step up from that where it was, like, completely public.", "start": 1457.71, "end": 1475.255 }, { "text": "You know, streams of information could come to you from kinda, like, anywhere.", "start": 1476.33, "end": 1480.11 }, { "text": "And, you know, when I, once I sort of joined up, I started finding all this content that I would have never found if I was just, kind of, like, looking at blogs because the blogs, like, weren't writing about them.", "start": 1480.73, "end": 1493.535 }, { "text": "And I was real I realized that, like, a lot of the way that I was finding these new artists or, like, this new content or whatever was, like, you know, it start off following some people I know.", "start": 1493.835, "end": 1503.775 } ], "start": 1454.99, "end": 1503.775, "num_words": 133.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And then, like, I would see that they were, like, like, a a number of them were, like, interacting or, like, following or, like, retweeting, like, someone else that I didn't know.", "start": 1503.9401, "end": 1513.3 }, { "text": "And so after a time, it's like, okay.", "start": 1513.3, "end": 1516.1 }, { "text": "Like, those artists can sort sort of, like, like, cosign this artist or it seems like they're, like, these, like, 20 artists who, like, I I see, like, in, in, like, concert with each other, just sort of, like, mentioned around each other all the time.", "start": 1516.1, "end": 1530.4451 }, { "text": "So, like, maybe I should, like, that's kinda like a community and I should, like, follow all of them.", "start": 1530.4451, "end": 1535.09 }, { "text": "And then I'll, like, have a better idea of, like, what's going on in this, kind of scene as a whole.", "start": 1535.09, "end": 1540.47 } ], "start": 1503.9401, "end": 1540.47, "num_words": 126.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And then I was like, well, because I was learning in my, like, computer science classes about networks and kind of, network topology and structure and economics and how, like, graph theory can be applied to networks to teach you all these different things about, kind of how they break down and their dynamics.", "start": 1541.81, "end": 1563.5599 }, { "text": "And I was like, well, I could, you know, kind of just apply this and automate the the thing that I'm already doing manually, trying to, kind of search the space, use algorithms to do that.", "start": 1563.94, "end": 1578.9551 }, { "text": "And then I was like, well, you know, people are kind of already doing that, but the way that they're doing it is, like, in the background.", "start": 1578.9551, "end": 1588.44 }, { "text": "And, you know, you just see, like, the end result, like, the end suggestion or recommendation or whatever.", "start": 1588.98, "end": 1594.84 }, { "text": "I thought it would be really cool if I could actually see that knowledge web itself and have the, have the the information that and the insight that was being pulled from the, you know, the the AI or whatever you wanna call it be, like, explicitly visual.", "start": 1595.0599, "end": 1613.785 } ], "start": 1541.81, "end": 1613.785, "num_words": 183.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So literally anyone could, like, understand, what it what, you know, what the insight was and, like, use that to explore for new content themselves as opposed to just kind of being spoon fed, an answer.", "start": 1613.845, "end": 1629.1 }, { "text": "Because when you're spoon fed an answer and you don't know why, then, of course, it becomes very easy to just make sure people listen to the same kind of, like, stratosphere of, of music and don't ever, like, expose themselves to, like, anything outside of that.", "start": 1629.1, "end": 1646.55 }, { "text": "So I thought it would you know, by instead having, like, a visual knowledge map of music, it would make people more comfortable branching out from what they know to what they don't know because it would show them the connections between them.", "start": 1646.79, "end": 1662.285 }, { "text": "So, you know, I that was just like this idea I had, was, you know, kinda, like, toying around with it for a bit.", "start": 1664.045, "end": 1673.025 }, { "text": "A couple years later, I wound up going to this, festival, called, lighting in a bottle.", "start": 1673.9651, "end": 1681.7999 } ], "start": 1613.845, "end": 1681.7999, "num_words": 166.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's like, they call it, like, a transformative festival.", "start": 1681.7999, "end": 1684.46 }, { "text": "And I guess it it's, like, kind of it's, like, you know, very new agey, but, like, the new age y kind of vibe, like, borrows these ideas almost from socialism, but but, like, not really.", "start": 1685.1599, "end": 1701.0249 }, { "text": "But, like, it's to", "start": 1701.4049, "end": 1702.5249 } ], "start": 1681.7999, "end": 1702.5249, "num_words": 49.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "be honest with you.", "start": 1702.5249, "end": 1703.585 } ], "start": 1702.5249, "end": 1703.585, "num_words": 4.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1704.6849, "end": 1705.005 }, { "text": "But it's, like, you know, this idea of, like, community, like, people would, form they call them tribes and, like, you know, they would, like, come in tribes and, you know, people would kinda have, like, these open, like, art installations or, like, their camp would be, like, set up very, like, artistically, and, like, maybe you could just, like, walk around.", "start": 1705.005, "end": 1724.255 }, { "text": "Like, it was very much more open and kind of, less, corporate y than, like, a Coachella or, like, other, like, festivals that I've been to.", "start": 1724.255, "end": 1738.0499 }, { "text": "And I wound up, befriending this group of people called, like, First Kiss Society.", "start": 1738.11, "end": 1743.1699 }, { "text": "They called themselves, and they were, this, I guess, collective, like, basically, the a tribe that was based around tea.", "start": 1743.23, "end": 1751.6499 } ], "start": 1704.6849, "end": 1751.6499, "num_words": 123.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So they were really into, like, tea and, like, different kinds of tea and, like, the the different healing powers that each tea had, and they would, like, make tea and, you know, give it out to people.", "start": 1751.975, "end": 1762.215 }, { "text": "And I was like, this is really cool.", "start": 1762.215, "end": 1763.655 }, { "text": "Like, I like the idea of people just coming around coming together around something they care about and, like, trying to make that into a service for people.", "start": 1763.655, "end": 1772.78 }, { "text": "But when I when I thought about it and I thought about, like, the people I knew and, like, what they're into, I was like, we could do something way more grand.", "start": 1773.24, "end": 1782.205 }, { "text": "Like, not still, like, you know, this tea or whatever, but, like, there's, like, a lot that we could accomplish if we took that kind of mentality of, like, we're gonna, like, work together in solidarity to achieve this rather than, oh, I'm just gonna, like, try and go, like, get a job at Google, and that's gonna be, you know, my story.", "start": 1782.205, "end": 1804.91 } ], "start": 1751.975, "end": 1804.91, "num_words": 169.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And so, you know, I knew what I I kinda wanted this to, be focused around.", "start": 1805.29, "end": 1811.345 }, { "text": "You know, I was really interested in, like, data privacy and sort of, like, online autonomy and the opportunity to, create a more equitable kind of system, using technology.", "start": 1811.345, "end": 1828.1499 }, { "text": "And, you know, the the idea, like, kind of, formed from there, I think yeah.", "start": 1830.21, "end": 1837.97 }, { "text": "I think, with, like, you know, at the time and I think after that, it's just, like, things kinda happen in, like, current events and stuff that, like, made people more aware of, like, the the kind of issues that I was talking about.", "start": 1838.21, "end": 1854.765 }, { "text": "You know, when I first sort of came to my friends, like, talking about, like, oh, like, we should make a cooperative.", "start": 1854.8251, "end": 1862.58 } ], "start": 1805.29, "end": 1862.58, "num_words": 126.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Well, I think at first, I like", "start": 1862.58, "end": 1864.1 } ], "start": 1862.58, "end": 1864.1, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Maybe it's a good time to because I was gonna ask why", "start": 1865.14, "end": 1868.2 } ], "start": 1865.14, "end": 1868.2, "num_words": 12.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 1868.58, "end": 1868.78 } ], "start": 1868.58, "end": 1868.78, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Why design this as a cooperative?", "start": 1868.98, "end": 1871.8451 } ], "start": 1868.98, "end": 1871.8451, "num_words": 6.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right.", "start": 1872.225, "end": 1872.7051 } ], "start": 1872.225, "end": 1872.7051, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And how how does that, you know, how does that internally work, the cooperative structure in in, like, such a such a system or in such a project like Aficionado?", "start": 1872.7051, "end": 1882.165 }, { "text": "Hey, everyone.", "start": 1884.7201, "end": 1885.38 }, { "text": "If you're enjoying this interview so far and you want to be sure that more content like this can be made, you can, of course, donate to my efforts through Patreon.", "start": 1885.52, "end": 1894.4801 }, { "text": "So if you go to patreon.com/theblockchainsocialist you can donate starting at $3 per month or more to help me out and join other patrons like Andrew Sam Paul Matthew Kendra and the newest patron jb at the moment I spent more on this project and I've ever earned on it due to hosting costs so any amount really helps and in the future I'm hoping to make more complex bits of content to help get the message that blockchain doesn't need to be used to further entrench capitalist exploitation and we can use it to make something much better than that so that message resonates with you I hope you'll help out and if you can't help out financially don't worry understand one thing you can do to help is to subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you're using or leave a review you can as well join the different groups that are available out there there's the crypto leftist subreddit and the discord group which are the most, which are the biggest ones.", "start": 1894.4801, "end": 1956.385 } ], "start": 1872.7051, "end": 1956.385, "num_words": 238.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Or you can follow me on Twitter at TB socialist.", "start": 1956.6849, "end": 1959.1849 }, { "text": "But that's it for me.", "start": 1959.8049, "end": 1960.845 }, { "text": "So let's get back to the interview with Chibu from a future modern.", "start": 1960.845, "end": 1964.625 } ], "start": 1956.6849, "end": 1964.625, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1967.14, "end": 1967.64 }, { "text": "So exactly.", "start": 1968.66, "end": 1969.24 }, { "text": "I was like I'd heard of cooperatives.", "start": 1969.46, "end": 1971.64 }, { "text": "When I first came up with this idea, I wasn't, like, gung ho on cooperatives or, like, you know, super like involved in the cooperative space at all.", "start": 1972.5, "end": 1982.955 }, { "text": "But I had heard of them and had, you know, like an intellectual idea of what they were.", "start": 1982.955, "end": 1990.255 } ], "start": 1967.14, "end": 1990.255, "num_words": 56.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And, I just thought like, and then so I started, like, looking more into it, and it just sort of made sense as a way to, involve, you know, like, really in, just sort of, you know, passionate, like, dedicated people, in a way that made them feel like they had ownership.", "start": 1990.7949, "end": 2017.645 }, { "text": "Because I think, like, when I first, came up with, area that, like, music AI project I talked about, I was like, oh, I wanted, like, a couple people to, like, help me, work on it.", "start": 2018.345, "end": 2030.6001 }, { "text": "So I was like, yo, guys, let's make this company.", "start": 2030.66, "end": 2033.235 }, { "text": "I'm gonna have 90% equity, and, like, you guys are gonna have 5%.", "start": 2033.235, "end": 2037.175 }, { "text": "And it almost sound it, like, sounded ridiculous coming out of my mouth, but I was like, that's just how companies are set up.", "start": 2037.395, "end": 2042.995 } ], "start": 1990.7949, "end": 2042.995, "num_words": 135.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 2042.995, "end": 2043.3151 }, { "text": "So, like, that's what I say.", "start": 2043.3151, "end": 2045.1051 }, { "text": "And, you know, one of them was like, that's ridiculous.", "start": 2045.3201, "end": 2047.24 }, { "text": "Like, why, like, why would I do that?", "start": 2047.24, "end": 2048.92 }, { "text": "And I was kinda like, well, that's just kinda, like, how it works.", "start": 2048.92, "end": 2051.96 } ], "start": 2042.995, "end": 2051.96, "num_words": 38.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And he was like, no.", "start": 2051.96, "end": 2052.84 }, { "text": "Like, I'm not gonna do that.", "start": 2052.84, "end": 2054.3801 }, { "text": "So, you know, I sort of had, like, that experience of, like, yeah.", "start": 2054.44, "end": 2058.245 }, { "text": "I mean, that really doesn't make sense.", "start": 2058.245, "end": 2059.7651 }, { "text": "Like, I would not there's not anyone that I would work with that I would really wanna be, like, the boss of.", "start": 2059.7651, "end": 2066.0051 } ], "start": 2051.96, "end": 2066.0051, "num_words": 53.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know what I mean?", "start": 2066.0051, "end": 2066.8052 }, { "text": "So it's like", "start": 2066.8052, "end": 2067.2852 } ], "start": 2066.0051, "end": 2067.2852, "num_words": 8.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I think I think there's, like Yeah.", "start": 2070.46, "end": 2072.24 }, { "text": "I feel like it's a lot of time.", "start": 2072.54, "end": 2074.1401 }, { "text": "Like, I think it'd be interesting to know how many people actually would have created maybe a cooperative instead if they knew, you know, if they knew there was an alternative to, like, a start up or, like, a normal company.", "start": 2074.1401, "end": 2088.355 }, { "text": "I mean, I I feel like a lot of people don't naturally want to be the boss over someone necessarily.", "start": 2088.355, "end": 2095.815 } ], "start": 2070.46, "end": 2095.815, "num_words": 76.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right.", "start": 2096.49, "end": 2096.99 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2097.05, "end": 2097.53 }, { "text": "And, yeah, there was some, person that I met who, like, went to MIT, and it was funny because, like, I met him at this, kinda like underground hip hop bar in LA, and, like, his French shirt had, like, some, like, nerdy, like, spelling out of, like, MIT.", "start": 2098.01, "end": 2120.175 }, { "text": "It was like, what is it?", "start": 2120.395, "end": 2122.05 }, { "text": "Like, e over c squared for, like, m, and then it was, like, square root of negative one for I.", "start": 2122.05, "end": 2127.57 } ], "start": 2096.49, "end": 2127.57, "num_words": 77.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And it was, like, you know, super nerdy.", "start": 2127.57, "end": 2129.25 }, { "text": "And then I, like, looked at his trailer.", "start": 2129.25, "end": 2130.4502 }, { "text": "I was like, oh, you went to MIT.", "start": 2130.4502, "end": 2131.81 }, { "text": "And so it's like, obviously, we're, like, instant friends because, like, I, like, caught it.", "start": 2131.81, "end": 2135.59 }, { "text": "And, you know, then he was he was telling me about, like, oh, how he's really into the startup scene in LA and stuff.", "start": 2135.945, "end": 2141.385 } ], "start": 2127.57, "end": 2141.385, "num_words": 63.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I was like, oh, this is my ticket.", "start": 2141.385, "end": 2142.985 }, { "text": "Like, you know, he's like this white dude.", "start": 2142.985, "end": 2145.145 }, { "text": "Like, I was like, this dude probably knows, like, everything and everyone about, like, making a startup.", "start": 2145.145, "end": 2150.09 }, { "text": "Like, this is, you know, how this is how I'm gonna, you know, this is this is gonna be my mentor.", "start": 2150.1501, "end": 2155.1902 }, { "text": "And then like, we started talking about it and he was like, yeah, the first thing you wanna do is like set up a C corporation and like make yourself like the sole owner.", "start": 2155.1902, "end": 2163.675 } ], "start": 2141.385, "end": 2163.675, "num_words": 88.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Was just like, well, yeah, I've already kind of been here and like I know like that's not gonna be the way that we're gonna do it.", "start": 2164.715, "end": 2170.735 }, { "text": "So like I, you know, realized then that I needed to find kinda like a new community, or at least just like the people that were doing something more similar to what I was doing.", "start": 2171.5151, "end": 2185.5999 }, { "text": "But, yeah, I think a lot of people don't know.", "start": 2187.2598, "end": 2189.8398 }, { "text": "And, you know, I just I just known about it because, you know, my interest in anarchism, and just, like, having debates with people about, like, oh, you know, like, how would we organize society without a government?", "start": 2190.605, "end": 2206.19 }, { "text": "So I would just like throw up, oh, you know, we just have like cooperatives and then there'd be councils.", "start": 2206.19, "end": 2211.97 } ], "start": 2164.715, "end": 2211.97, "num_words": 130.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And this is just like, I haven't read like a lot of like literature or anything.", "start": 2212.19, "end": 2217.8052 }, { "text": "This is just, like, me thinking, like, you know, as an economist, like, that's what my background is.", "start": 2217.8052, "end": 2223.645 }, { "text": "Like, you know, maybe something like that would work.", "start": 2223.645, "end": 2226.3052 }, { "text": "And then yeah.", "start": 2227.725, "end": 2228.685 }, { "text": "So once I, you know, actually started building it, that's when I was like, okay.", "start": 2228.685, "end": 2232.64 } ], "start": 2212.19, "end": 2232.64, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I actually need to, like, learn kind of like what the history of this is, like, who's done this before, you know, what works, what doesn't.", "start": 2232.64, "end": 2240.5 }, { "text": "And, you know, also kind of realize that we in ourselves are a research project and, you know, creating best practices, for it in this kind of new world, especially because, you know, we want it to be enabled by blockchain, and we see Blockchain as a way for it to be able to kind of scale and be, like, the next, like, business model of the future.", "start": 2241.76, "end": 2266.86 } ], "start": 2232.64, "end": 2266.86, "num_words": 94.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So how exactly does the cooperative work within a future model?", "start": 2267.32, "end": 2271.72 }, { "text": "How like, Yeah.", "start": 2271.72, "end": 2273.435 }, { "text": "Is it I imagine it's gotta be a little bit different than if you're using blockchain sometimes.", "start": 2273.435, "end": 2278.655 } ], "start": 2267.32, "end": 2278.655, "num_words": 31.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2280.395, "end": 2280.875 }, { "text": "So, yeah, I think that's still in flux, because I'm learning so much about not only blockchain, but, like, also alternatives to blockchain, like, basically, like, mutual credit systems and, like, the work that's been done there.", "start": 2280.875, "end": 2295.82 }, { "text": "And, you know, working with, this company called Resonate, which is another, which is a cooperatively owned meet music streaming coop, that we're partnering with.", "start": 2298.36, "end": 2311.645 }, { "text": "And", "start": 2311.7048, "end": 2311.785 } ], "start": 2280.395, "end": 2311.785, "num_words": 64.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Who I who I interviewed, Rich Jensen, the current CEO.", "start": 2312.025, "end": 2318.09 } ], "start": 2312.025, "end": 2318.09, "num_words": 10.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Oh, yeah.", "start": 2318.47, "end": 2319.03 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2319.03, "end": 2319.27 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2319.27, "end": 2319.4302 }, { "text": "I talked to Rich.", "start": 2319.4302, "end": 2320.27 }, { "text": "I talked to Rich, you know, like, once a week or more.", "start": 2320.27, "end": 2324.71 } ], "start": 2318.47, "end": 2324.71, "num_words": 20.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And and, yeah, you know, I think, in their sort of space, they have, like, mixed feelings or, like, split feelings about blockchain.", "start": 2324.71, "end": 2334.2148 }, { "text": "You know, they but I think part of that is they, you know, used it before, and they see how kind of the fluctuations in the market and, like, the tokens can kind of, you know, mess up their operations.", "start": 2334.355, "end": 2346.9102 }, { "text": "So I think it's important to kind of learn from that.", "start": 2347.1301, "end": 2352.6501 }, { "text": "Like, I was interested in, like, making our company a DAO, but then, it's like I look at how a DAO works, and it's basically, like, the amount of money you have is, like, the amount of votes you have.", "start": 2352.6501, "end": 2366.605 }, { "text": "And it's just like that that doesn't make sense.", "start": 2366.605, "end": 2369.165 } ], "start": 2324.71, "end": 2369.165, "num_words": 123.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Like, that's just", "start": 2369.165, "end": 2369.805 } ], "start": 2369.165, "end": 2369.805, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I guess how you design it.", "start": 2370.49, "end": 2371.6902 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2371.6902, "end": 2372.01 }, { "text": "That's how how a lot of them are designed currently are very, unimaginative when it comes to, they sort of take on just like a capitalist form.", "start": 2372.01, "end": 2380.8901 } ], "start": 2370.49, "end": 2380.8901, "num_words": 34.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2380.8901, "end": 2381.1301 }, { "text": "It's just like a decentralized capitalism.", "start": 2381.1301, "end": 2383.07 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2384.7148, "end": 2385.2148 }, { "text": "But, yeah.", "start": 2386.9548, "end": 2388.255 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2388.315, "end": 2388.555 } ], "start": 2380.8901, "end": 2388.555, "num_words": 11.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I would say it's, it's pretty unimaginative.", "start": 2388.555, "end": 2390.575 }, { "text": "But, I mean, I guess there's, like, a different way to do it, but then there's, like, there's not necessarily the template for it.", "start": 2390.875, "end": 2395.6748 }, { "text": "So it's like Yeah.", "start": 2395.6748, "end": 2396.57 }, { "text": "It can't necessarily be the thing we do right now because, you know, we're gonna be spending all this time trying to figure it out.", "start": 2396.65, "end": 2403.45 }, { "text": "So I think right now, you know, the way that's set up is just, like, we have different projects that are considered different cooperatives.", "start": 2403.45, "end": 2410.43 } ], "start": 2388.555, "end": 2410.43, "num_words": 84.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And then there's sport sort of, like, under the future modern umbrella.", "start": 2412.225, "end": 2415.2651 }, { "text": "So we have area, which is that, music, like, visualized AI, startup, I guess.", "start": 2415.2651, "end": 2423.125 }, { "text": "We have Artel, which is, like, this art collective, blockchain art collective that I was talking about.", "start": 2423.665, "end": 2430.16 }, { "text": "We have Estate, which, isn't meant to be, a way for blockchain to provide housing, But it rolls out in a multi phase process because the first question is, like, okay.", "start": 2430.7, "end": 2447.305 }, { "text": "If you want, a blockchain to provide people free housing, like, how do you get actually acquire the housing that you're gonna then give to people?", "start": 2447.305, "end": 2457.13 } ], "start": 2412.225, "end": 2457.13, "num_words": 100.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And, like, how do you move housing from the sort of traditional financial system into, like, this cooperative system.", "start": 2458.95, "end": 2467.295 }, { "text": "And so the program is to, iteratively gain more leverage to be able to as inexpensively and as sort of, like, efficiently and quickly as possible, buy back, property in our neighborhoods and have them basically stewarded by, you you know, like, community organizers, community leaders, just marginalized, groups in those in those neighborhoods and then have rules for how we, share it out, make you know, some mix between, sharing it to kind of people who are in in the, like, membership group and then, like, renting it out to people who are out of the membership group so that you can fund, like, basically, subsidize, the services that you're giving to people in the membership group.", "start": 2468.395, "end": 2528.605 }, { "text": "And then, you know, ideally, after time, it's like we we control enough of this housing that we can actually start, like, making demands.", "start": 2528.605, "end": 2536.545 }, { "text": "So that is kind of, like, what we're doing with that, which, you know you know, this idea of, like, giving people housing with blockchain is a great idea.", "start": 2538.7651, "end": 2550.1702 }, { "text": "And I was just, like, this is my concept of, like, how we would get there.", "start": 2550.6301, "end": 2555.37 } ], "start": 2458.95, "end": 2555.37, "num_words": 206.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And, then we have those are kinda like the three projects that are kinda initialized, and we're trying to get up and running.", "start": 2557.005, "end": 2567.025 }, { "text": "And then there there are other projects that are sort of, being ideated, like, having some kind of, like, life sciences division where, you know, we could work on things like legalized like, weed legalization and making sure that's, like, equitable, making sure, you know, helping, like, farming co ops get set up.", "start": 2568.1401, "end": 2590.285 }, { "text": "Like, we have, like, a lot of, people with, like, earth systems, civil engineering, kinda like environmental engineering and science background.", "start": 2590.285, "end": 2599.43 }, { "text": "So mobilizing that to, you know, provide different services for the community, improve perhaps provide, like, educational experiences as well.", "start": 2599.49, "end": 2612.815 }, { "text": "So it's like kids can learn, like, how to like, it's like if you're gonna take, like, an economics class, why isn't the economics class on, like, cooperative economics and, like, how you can work your with your, like, classmates to, you know, create, like, a self sustaining farm or, like, whatever it is.", "start": 2612.815, "end": 2631.66 } ], "start": 2557.005, "end": 2631.66, "num_words": 171.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So, you know, that's, that's kinda, like, how it's set up.", "start": 2633.8, "end": 2637.5 }, { "text": "And then people can kinda, like, move between projects.", "start": 2638.595, "end": 2641.7349 }, { "text": "We're discussing right now if we wanna be, like, a a a collective or a traditional cooperative.", "start": 2642.9949, "end": 2649.4148 }, { "text": "I think, you know, the idea is, like, a collective is, like, completely direct, decision making, direct democratic decision making.", "start": 2651.075, "end": 2660.5698 }, { "text": "And then, like, a cooperative that's not a collective would potentially have, like, a board of directors that gets elected.", "start": 2660.7898, "end": 2667.3699 } ], "start": 2633.8, "end": 2667.3699, "num_words": 77.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And we are thinking, like, we might have, like, a mix of both.", "start": 2667.735, "end": 2671.8152 }, { "text": "Like, there's, a board of directors, but it's rotating.", "start": 2671.8152, "end": 2674.875 }, { "text": "And so if you want to, like, have, a certain position of power or, like, responsibility, you can, like, rotate into that.", "start": 2675.175, "end": 2683.5952 }, { "text": "And and, yeah, we actually just, started, working with, a financial adviser who actually comes from I I wanna say he comes from, like, M and a, but he comes from, like, a traditional, finance background, but he's really interested in, like, cooperatives and, like, helping them get structured.", "start": 2683.71, "end": 2705.075 }, { "text": "So he's been, really helpful in, like, figuring out, like, how our equity structure works because, you know, right now we're not funded or we have, like, a small amount of, like, angel, money from one of our members.", "start": 2705.935, "end": 2721.11 } ], "start": 2667.735, "end": 2721.11, "num_words": 132.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "But, you know, we're applying for grants and, like, looking into spark sponsorships and potentially looking at what investment would look like.", "start": 2721.11, "end": 2730.105 }, { "text": "And, you know, so he's giving us tips on, like, how to, like, structure our equity and, how to, like, basically, set up our core corporate structure, how to set up, like, our payout structure for our members, to be able to, like, maintain a maintain a healthy business while we are, you know, trying to achieve these lofty goals and visions.", "start": 2730.405, "end": 2758.945 } ], "start": 2721.11, "end": 2758.945, "num_words": 84.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2759.8052, "end": 2760.3052 }, { "text": "So then, I mean, it sounds like you guys are making, some progress.", "start": 2761.565, "end": 2765.745 }, { "text": "But how would someone, like, a listener right now, how would they go about maybe becoming a member, of the cooperative?", "start": 2766.445, "end": 2775.22 } ], "start": 2759.8052, "end": 2775.22, "num_words": 35.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2775.6802, "end": 2776.0 }, { "text": "I think, the first thing to do would probably just be to reach out.", "start": 2776.0, "end": 2780.72 }, { "text": "Like, follow us on on, our web two and web three spaces.", "start": 2780.72, "end": 2787.615 }, { "text": "You know, we're really active on scents, like, the Hive, the Hive blogging space, as well as, like, you know, like Twitter, Instagram, whatever.", "start": 2788.955, "end": 2801.2 }, { "text": "Actually, I guess, this financial advisor that we started working with is a good example.", "start": 2802.14, "end": 2809.36 } ], "start": 2775.6802, "end": 2809.36, "num_words": 66.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "He just reached out, essentially saying, like, he wants to help, and he sort of was, like, specifically, like, here's how.", "start": 2809.42, "end": 2817.865 }, { "text": "And, you know, we just happen to, like, really need, that kind of help, you know, and I didn't, and I've been looking for, you know, people who could give us more advice on that.", "start": 2819.525, "end": 2830.52 }, { "text": "You know, I talked to, like, another financial adviser, but he was more so on, like, investments and partnerships kinds of things.", "start": 2831.3, "end": 2838.275 }, { "text": "So, like, he could help us with that, but he can really help us with, like, how do we get, like, actually set up internally.", "start": 2838.275, "end": 2843.095 }, { "text": "And so, yeah, it was sort of just, like, right place, right time.", "start": 2845.4749, "end": 2849.155 } ], "start": 2809.42, "end": 2849.155, "num_words": 116.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And, like, you know, now, you know, it'll still take kind of, like, developing a relationship, but it would you know, I think it would be great if, you know, he wound up, you know, coming on or at least just being, an adviser in, like, a official capacity.", "start": 2849.155, "end": 2864.75 }, { "text": "I think the way that we kinda wanna structure in general is, like, first, you would be an employee.", "start": 2865.865, "end": 2871.885 }, { "text": "So, you know, you would have, like, a a three month, six month provisional, period.", "start": 2872.5051, "end": 2878.445 }, { "text": "And then, you know, if, you still wanna, join and we still want you to join, then, you know, we would have a vote.", "start": 2879.09, "end": 2886.47 }, { "text": "And, barring any, like, extreme grievance that someone, like, brought up against you, you would then be able to join.", "start": 2886.77, "end": 2897.345 } ], "start": 2849.155, "end": 2897.345, "num_words": 127.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And, yeah, right now, it's really, project based, but I think it'll it'll soon develop into kinda like a fully fleshed out enterprise.", "start": 2897.645, "end": 2908.86 } ], "start": 2897.645, "end": 2908.86, "num_words": 23.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2910.12, "end": 2910.62 }, { "text": "So then right now, if someone is listening and they want to get part take part, then they should direct message you essentially on, one of the Yeah.", "start": 2910.84, "end": 2919.885 } ], "start": 2910.12, "end": 2919.885, "num_words": 29.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Or or again.", "start": 2919.885, "end": 2921.185 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2921.325, "end": 2921.645 }, { "text": "Or yeah.", "start": 2921.645, "end": 2922.2852 }, { "text": "Any of our, any of our members, we are on key base as well.", "start": 2922.2852, "end": 2927.965 }, { "text": "So, I'm a future modern on key base.", "start": 2927.965, "end": 2931.3 } ], "start": 2919.885, "end": 2931.3, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Anyone that, follows me is, pretty much a member.", "start": 2931.94, "end": 2936.68 }, { "text": "I don't know how you, like, let people see your, your groups on Keybase.", "start": 2938.58, "end": 2946.965 }, { "text": "But if you if you definitely, if you message me on Keybase, I'll I'll respond and, and, we can figure out how you can see the rest of the people in the team as well.", "start": 2946.965, "end": 2956.425 }, { "text": "Cool.", "start": 2957.1802, "end": 2957.5 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2957.5, "end": 2957.58 } ], "start": 2931.94, "end": 2957.58, "num_words": 60.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And we're working on a website and stuff, so then you'll be able to have more visibility into who we are.", "start": 2957.58, "end": 2963.1802 }, { "text": "But, yeah, I think if you if you, find us on social media and start clicking around, pretty much only, retweet other people who are in the collective.", "start": 2963.1802, "end": 2973.335 }, { "text": "So you'll start to find out who we are.", "start": 2973.335, "end": 2976.795 } ], "start": 2957.58, "end": 2976.795, "num_words": 58.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2977.335, "end": 2977.835 }, { "text": "Nice.", "start": 2978.135, "end": 2978.635 }, { "text": "So I want to go quickly back to the eState project that you mentioned.", "start": 2980.055, "end": 2984.68 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2984.82, "end": 2985.32 }, { "text": "Because you mentioned that, you know, part of this the goals of, Future Modern and, like, the movement we're trying to do is, like, empower disenfranchised communities.", "start": 2985.7, "end": 2995.94 } ], "start": 2977.335, "end": 2995.94, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And I thought eState was a really I mean, it's a really, like, material example, I think, of", "start": 2995.94, "end": 3002.475 } ], "start": 2995.94, "end": 3002.475, "num_words": 18.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right.", "start": 3002.715, "end": 3003.215 } ], "start": 3002.715, "end": 3003.215, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Helping out disenfranchised communities.", "start": 3003.5151, "end": 3005.5352 }, { "text": "So I thought maybe you can explain a bit how how something like eState, would help disenfranchised communities and, like, maybe you can even specify which disenfranchised communities you think this would help.", "start": 3005.595, "end": 3019.8 } ], "start": 3003.5151, "end": 3019.8, "num_words": 37.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 3022.18, "end": 3022.5 }, { "text": "I think, it would be geared towards, basically black and brown urban communities, people who are at risk of displacement by gentrification, facing rising rents, that's who we really want to, target with this.", "start": 3022.5, "end": 3043.94 }, { "text": "And", "start": 3044.4, "end": 3044.9 } ], "start": 3022.18, "end": 3044.9, "num_words": 36.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "This is probably especially, like, cogent since I mean, at the moment with the with the corona crisis and on The US, that's Right.", "start": 3045.68, "end": 3055.875 }, { "text": "People have lost, I think, you know, all you got was the $1,200 stimulus check and, like, I think you're losing unemployment benefits as well for a lot of people.", "start": 3056.335, "end": 3066.115 }, { "text": "So and the moratorium on evictions, I think, is is ending.", "start": 3066.63, "end": 3070.0898 } ], "start": 3045.68, "end": 3070.0898, "num_words": 65.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 3070.8699, "end": 3071.2698 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 3071.91, "end": 3072.23 }, { "text": "Nationally, it is.", "start": 3072.23, "end": 3073.19 }, { "text": "I think in California, it officially did.", "start": 3073.19, "end": 3075.8298 }, { "text": "I don't know what the deal is in LA.", "start": 3075.8298, "end": 3078.3098 } ], "start": 3070.8699, "end": 3078.3098, "num_words": 21.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's very, it's very confusing too because I'm reading that they extended it, but then people are saying that they did it.", "start": 3078.3098, "end": 3085.535 }, { "text": "And it's like, yeah.", "start": 3085.535, "end": 3088.095 }, { "text": "It's it's really bad.", "start": 3088.095, "end": 3089.315 }, { "text": "I think what this would, provide people is, first of all, a way to, share information on their housing experiences, their landlord, their building, basically review them and, start attaching, like, a like, a reputation and a history to them.", "start": 3090.095, "end": 3111.595 }, { "text": "Because, when you apply to rent somewhere, you know, you have to give them your Social Security number, all your your bank account, like, your rental history, your referrals, all this in for basically, everything there is to know about you, but you don't know anything about your landlord.", "start": 3111.595, "end": 3129.35 } ], "start": 3078.3098, "end": 3129.35, "num_words": 119.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You don't know how many people they've evicted before, like, what, their, like, statistics are on, like, who they've, like, let rent versus who they haven't, you know, what their, like, rent price has been over time.", "start": 3129.35, "end": 3143.845 } ], "start": 3129.35, "end": 3143.845, "num_words": 37.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Let's see.", "start": 3145.425, "end": 3146.145 }, { "text": "Landlords ask for a lot of information before you can rent while you don't know jack shit about your landlord.", "start": 3146.145, "end": 3152.1902 } ], "start": 3145.425, "end": 3152.1902, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right.", "start": 3152.73, "end": 3153.21 }, { "text": "So, kinda looking to to flip that on its head.", "start": 3153.21, "end": 3157.79 }, { "text": "And so what I like about eState is we wanna set it up as a dual like a like a dual power system, or a counter power system, I guess, is maybe a less, encumbered word for it, where you have members and nonmembers.", "start": 3158.09, "end": 3177.785 }, { "text": "Members are essentially seeded with, like, community organizations, and then they can invite people to join.", "start": 3178.005, "end": 3185.77 }, { "text": "And, those members would be the people who are allowed to, make reviews, share information, make posts, and earn, credits essentially for, sharing that information.", "start": 3186.23, "end": 3200.565 } ], "start": 3152.73, "end": 3200.565, "num_words": 96.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Meanwhile, nonmembers can, see the information that's being posted but not post themselves.", "start": 3201.105, "end": 3208.3 }, { "text": "And we're thinking that, potentially, there's the opportunity for them to pay for information, whether it's, information that's been kept private because, you know, whoever offered it wants to make that information members only or, information that just hasn't been provided, you would be able to essentially, like, fundraise for that that piece of inform for someone to come in and and and fill in that piece of information.", "start": 3208.52, "end": 3238.67 }, { "text": "So the first step would basically be an information market for housing that was led by, yeah, kind of disenfranchised communities, in in urban areas and in cities.", "start": 3240.01, "end": 3255.445 }, { "text": "And, in doing that, you can first establish, like, a fairly priced housing market and a fairly kinda informed housing market, which I think is, like, a super important first step because the housing the real estate market is so shady.", "start": 3255.985, "end": 3273.79 }, { "text": "We and, you know, it is very discriminatory, and, they, you know, jack prices up for no reason.", "start": 3274.5698, "end": 3283.885 } ], "start": 3201.105, "end": 3283.885, "num_words": 169.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And, just being able to, like, show people that I think is is hugely important.", "start": 3284.2651, "end": 3290.0452 }, { "text": "We are working with this engineer who, runs his, his own real estate development company, and he, is, like, born in El Salvador.", "start": 3292.345, "end": 3306.2 }, { "text": "Basically, came from nothing now, like works at, Department of of of Water and Power.", "start": 3306.2, "end": 3312.3452 }, { "text": "Basically, like, Rex to Rich's story, and is really interested in, like, how, you know, he can use what he knows to make housing more affordable for her people and especially interested in, like, how tech can kinda accelerate that and enable that.", "start": 3312.3452, "end": 3330.35 }, { "text": "So we wind up meeting just on some, oh, like, you are really into revolutionizing industries through tech.", "start": 3330.4102, "end": 3338.505 } ], "start": 3284.2651, "end": 3338.505, "num_words": 114.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know, what what do you got for, like, the real estate industry?", "start": 3339.545, "end": 3342.2048 }, { "text": "And then, you know, I was like, well, I have some ideas.", "start": 3342.7449, "end": 3345.1648 }, { "text": "Obviously, being able to, like, collectively invest in real estate, I think, would, you know, open up opportunities for wealth for people that, you know, weren't up, available.", "start": 3345.625, "end": 3358.5298 }, { "text": "But I wanna hear, like, what you think is, like, the issue kind of in what what issues you see in the real estate industry.", "start": 3358.8298, "end": 3366.3252 }, { "text": "And he was like, yeah.", "start": 3366.3252, "end": 3367.0452 } ], "start": 3339.545, "end": 3367.0452, "num_words": 83.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "The the kind of, like, the most egregious thing that I see is just the amount of lying, corruption, just misrepresentation of information that occurs in the real estate industry.", "start": 3367.0452, "end": 3380.4302 }, { "text": "And, if you were to remove that, I feel like prices would be a lot more fair and affordable for people.", "start": 3381.05, "end": 3388.4302 }, { "text": "And then once you have that sort of fairness, then you can layer in a lot of the things that people have already tried and then, combined with things that in terms of, like, fractional investment and what have you combined with things that people haven't tried, like providing free housing for people when, you know, new spots become available or having, like, real estate development, services available so that when communities gain control of housing, they can, develop them into, you know, more sustainable, more dense, more, just kind of efficient buildings and essentially, quote, unquote, gentrified, like, renew their urban, you know, the urban environment without it causing displacement and instead just benefiting from, their, communities becoming kinda more developed.", "start": 3390.01, "end": 3449.1301 }, { "text": "That's it.", "start": 3450.07, "end": 3450.6301 } ], "start": 3367.0452, "end": 3450.6301, "num_words": 175.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I think that makes sense.", "start": 3450.6301, "end": 3451.9102 }, { "text": "I mean, real estate is the fuck sometimes.", "start": 3451.9102, "end": 3455.6848 }, { "text": "I mean, prices I mean, land the the power dynamic between landlord and the renter is just so, I mean, obvious and egregious.", "start": 3455.6848, "end": 3464.7449 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 3465.365, "end": 3465.865 }, { "text": "But so maybe to stem from that and maybe look at the broader picture, I'm curious to hear what you think the plan is for a future modern to make sociopolitical change in general, and what are the long term goals of a future modern?", "start": 3467.3, "end": 3484.2349 } ], "start": 3450.6301, "end": 3484.2349, "num_words": 82.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know, I think something like e state, something like, tree roots, which is our kind of envisioned life sciences division.", "start": 3484.855, "end": 3492.395 }, { "text": "Like, once you like, obviously, like, the art and the music is cool and stuff, and it gives you it's really, like, more of, like, a marketing tool, where it's, like, okay.", "start": 3492.615, "end": 3502.56 }, { "text": "We're out here.", "start": 3502.56, "end": 3503.54 }, { "text": "You know we're cool.", "start": 3503.76, "end": 3505.06 }, { "text": "You know you know we're, doing these big things.", "start": 3505.6, "end": 3509.36 } ], "start": 3484.855, "end": 3509.36, "num_words": 69.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 3509.36, "end": 3509.76 }, { "text": "Now we can, like, get into the material world and, like, you know, make some real change.", "start": 3509.76, "end": 3516.635 }, { "text": "And I think it's like so once you are sort of working and giving people, like, material goods and material wealth, then you kind of have, like, a bargaining chip where you can kind of start playing in the political sphere, whether you know, I think in it starts locally.", "start": 3516.935, "end": 3537.6501 }, { "text": "You know, like, I could imagine a situation where, for instance, one of our members works with this, indigenous collective that, has a lot of, weed growing going on, but they also have, like, a a law arm where they, do, like, youth outreach and basically, like, keeping youth out of gangs and, like, jails and stuff.", "start": 3539.1501, "end": 3565.9102 }, { "text": "And through that, they've developed, like, this really solid, like, community network that's been going on for, like, thirty, forty years.", "start": 3565.9102, "end": 3572.545 } ], "start": 3509.36, "end": 3572.545, "num_words": 146.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And, you can imagine a situation where they are, you know, they get kinda, like, integrated into the future modern infrastructure.", "start": 3573.005, "end": 3587.64 }, { "text": "We set them up with, like, some, like, blockchain, like, supply chain like, supply chain system.", "start": 3588.26, "end": 3594.8398 }, { "text": "Now they're, like, flushed with cash.", "start": 3595.14, "end": 3596.92 }, { "text": "We use, like, their, weed, kind of, proceeds to, like, grow food and, like, grow, like, herbal medicines and, like so they're already doing something where they have, like, a dispensary.", "start": 3597.9849, "end": 3610.32 }, { "text": "And then, like, in the dispensary, they have, like, a health clinic.", "start": 3610.32, "end": 3613.22 } ], "start": 3573.005, "end": 3613.22, "num_words": 86.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So, you know, they're, you know, providing services, that are kind of being subsidized with, what they're selling.", "start": 3613.6, "end": 3622.5 }, { "text": "And, you know, once you're sort of doing that at scale, maybe you can start to, like, push boundaries a little bit.", "start": 3623.04, "end": 3631.855 }, { "text": "Like, start, like, growing a farm that, like, may not be legal technically, but it's like the entire city is behind this.", "start": 3631.855, "end": 3639.9001 }, { "text": "So what are you necessarily going to do about it?", "start": 3639.9001, "end": 3644.0 }, { "text": "And then, you know, I could see, like, basically, the the end goal is to create is to be our own, like, quote unquote state or, like, non state or, yeah, I guess, anarchist state where probably, you know, wouldn't just be us.", "start": 3644.22, "end": 3661.9949 } ], "start": 3613.6, "end": 3661.9949, "num_words": 115.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It would be a bunch of other, you know, techno tech enabled cooperatives.", "start": 3661.9949, "end": 3667.59 }, { "text": "And we are sort of in this decentralized, like, metropolis where, you know, we have a lot of kind of, like, resources in common that we share with each other.", "start": 3669.1702, "end": 3681.9648 }, { "text": "I mean, at that point, we probably, you know, even have, like, a security system because there we we, will potentially have, like, real enemies.", "start": 3682.1848, "end": 3691.325 }, { "text": "What we wanna be is, you know, living in a compound, like, doing experiments, making art, like, growing our own food, and, like, giving away the surplus to, you know, like, the community.", "start": 3692.28, "end": 3705.34 }, { "text": "And, and, you know, basically, that kind of, like, anarchist, like, utopia, quote, unquote.", "start": 3705.72, "end": 3713.565 } ], "start": 3661.9949, "end": 3713.565, "num_words": 115.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know, that's, like, the the twenty year, thirty year plan.", "start": 3713.865, "end": 3717.965 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 3718.665, "end": 3718.825 }, { "text": "You know?", "start": 3718.825, "end": 3719.565 }, { "text": "Basically creating, like, a dual a counter power system, like, a a a self sufficient alternative to, everything that exists right now.", "start": 3720.15, "end": 3730.0898 } ], "start": 3713.865, "end": 3730.0898, "num_words": 36.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I like I like the lofty goal.", "start": 3731.99, "end": 3734.0698 } ], "start": 3731.99, "end": 3734.0698, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I think, I think", "start": 3734.0698, "end": 3736.035 } ], "start": 3734.0698, "end": 3736.035, "num_words": 4.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "it's a lot of people can identify, I think, especially maybe those who listen, like, wanting this type of system and just, like, knowing that we can provide.", "start": 3736.975, "end": 3748.355 }, { "text": "We just produce some food, some, like, excess of different products that we can share with those who need it rather than, just for profit as it is as it is now.", "start": 3750.25, "end": 3760.75 } ], "start": 3736.975, "end": 3760.75, "num_words": 60.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 3760.8901, "end": 3761.3901 } ], "start": 3760.8901, "end": 3761.3901, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I can identify with that.", "start": 3761.9302, "end": 3763.275 } ], "start": 3761.9302, "end": 3763.275, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 3763.595, "end": 3763.955 }, { "text": "And, I think, there are ways like, I'm really interested in ways that we kind of exploit the capitalist system back.", "start": 3763.955, "end": 3774.575 }, { "text": "Like, I'm very down to, like, my, one of our artists was saying that we should, like like, get investment and then, like, dissolve the company and then, like, make an entirely new one, like, which I don't know if I'm like if I'm like that kind of, like, debonair, but, like, I would definitely be down, like, this idea of, like, ethical branding or, I they call it ethical advertising.", "start": 3776.17, "end": 3802.095 }, { "text": "I I, have another term for which is brand laundering.", "start": 3803.275, "end": 3806.175 }, { "text": "The, you know, like, all these, corporations have, like, you know, some marketing, some budget for marketing.", "start": 3807.8801, "end": 3816.1401 } ], "start": 3763.595, "end": 3816.1401, "num_words": 120.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And it's like instead of paying all that money to, like, Facebook, Instagram, Google, Twitter, you could, pay that money as a donation into this network and community of, businesses and cooperatives and nonprofits and and just, like, mutual aid services that we have.", "start": 3817.08, "end": 3838.69 }, { "text": "And then, like, maybe your name gets, like, attached to it in, like, fine print.", "start": 3838.8298, "end": 3842.6099 }, { "text": "And, like, that's, like, the way that you, like, put yourself out in the community, as opposed to, you know, just, like, flipping ads.", "start": 3842.67, "end": 3852.165 }, { "text": "So it's like, yeah, once you kind of have the ears and eyes and, like, attention of people, you know, there are definitely ways where I'm willing to, like, take capitalist money to kinda, like, contribute to these goals because, you know, we don't really have time to kinda be purists about it.", "start": 3853.585, "end": 3877.6848 }, { "text": "It's more, of, like, how do we protect their influence from creeping in, which, you know, like, one thing that we wanna do is, like, have a small amount of equity that's, like, allowed, the app that investors are allowed to buy, but then they it doesn't give them any voting rights, which I found out that there's apparently, some precedent for it because Mark Zuckerberg, because I was telling this to my friend.", "start": 3877.7449, "end": 3905.775 } ], "start": 3817.08, "end": 3905.775, "num_words": 210.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "He was like, oh, yeah.", "start": 3905.775, "end": 3906.415 }, { "text": "Just like Zuckerberg.", "start": 3906.415, "end": 3907.215 }, { "text": "And I was like, oh, what are you talking about?", "start": 3907.215, "end": 3908.415 }, { "text": "He was like, oh, like, Zuckerberg has the only is the only person on the voting rights in Facebook.", "start": 3908.415, "end": 3912.655 }, { "text": "I was like, what?", "start": 3912.655, "end": 3913.715 } ], "start": 3905.775, "end": 3913.715, "num_words": 41.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Like, that is I mean, that is crazy, but it's also not surprising.", "start": 3914.015, "end": 3917.635 }, { "text": "It's like if if Zach can do that and, like, keep all the power for himself, then we can definitely do that and keep the power for all of our members and, like, the community that we, service.", "start": 3918.5, "end": 3929.48 }, { "text": "But, yeah.", "start": 3931.8052, "end": 3933.725 }, { "text": "I mean, but, you know, I think it it's, something we still are looking into.", "start": 3933.725, "end": 3939.485 }, { "text": "There's also, like, potentially sponsorships or, like, another, way of, you know, just kinda of of being able to keep it going.", "start": 3939.8052, "end": 3949.79 } ], "start": 3914.015, "end": 3949.79, "num_words": 90.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 3951.45, "end": 3951.95 }, { "text": "You know, I think it's like taking, like, bits and chunks and pieces off of it, gradually over time.", "start": 3952.73, "end": 3961.6748 } ], "start": 3951.45, "end": 3961.6748, "num_words": 20.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Well, this is a really interesting, conversation, and the project is really interesting.", "start": 3963.335, "end": 3968.2148 }, { "text": "I hope people can, check it out.", "start": 3968.2148, "end": 3970.2148 }, { "text": "But maybe you can for the last question, just where can people look, where should they look to find out more about a future modern if they want to learn more?", "start": 3970.2148, "end": 3979.94 } ], "start": 3963.335, "end": 3979.94, "num_words": 51.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I think, best place right now is our Open Collective.", "start": 3981.76, "end": 3984.66 }, { "text": "Opencollective.com/afuturemodern.", "start": 3984.905, "end": 3987.7249 }, { "text": "You know, we're also a future modern on everything, Twitter, Instagram, since, Hive.", "start": 3988.9849, "end": 3997.7249 }, { "text": "So I would just follow us to keep up with us.", "start": 3998.6902, "end": 4001.33 }, { "text": "Our website will be dropping soon.", "start": 4001.33, "end": 4003.4302 } ], "start": 3981.76, "end": 4003.4302, "num_words": 41.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So definitely follow us so you can, keep up with that.", "start": 4004.1301, "end": 4008.87 }, { "text": "I'm also on, Discord and and Telegram is the same thing, a future modern.", "start": 4009.8901, "end": 4014.385 }, { "text": "So, Keybase, a future modern.", "start": 4014.385, "end": 4018.145 }, { "text": "So, definitely follow us and feel free to message us.", "start": 4018.145, "end": 4022.9648 }, { "text": "Open to discussion anytime.", "start": 4023.9849, "end": 4026.885 } ], "start": 4004.1301, "end": 4026.885, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Cool.", "start": 4028.34, "end": 4028.84 }, { "text": "Well, thanks a lot, and good luck with, with the projects.", "start": 4029.62, "end": 4034.12 }, { "text": "Thank you.", "start": 4035.1401, "end": 4035.7002 }, { "text": "Thank you for having me.", "start": 4035.7002, "end": 4036.7402 }, { "text": "This was super interesting, and, I was really happy to get the practice, to talk about", "start": 4036.7402, "end": 4043.485 } ], "start": 4028.34, "end": 4043.485, "num_words": 35.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "the stuff.", "start": 4043.485, "end": 4044.065 }, { "text": "Anytime.", "start": 4045.565, "end": 4046.065 } ], "start": 4043.485, "end": 4046.065, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Thanks.", "start": 4047.645, "end": 4048.145 } ], "start": 4047.645, "end": 4048.145, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 } ] }, "entities": null, "translations": null, "topics": null } ], "detected_language": "" } ], "utterances": [ { "start": 12.674999, "end": 14.855, "confidence": 0.9263188, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Hello, everyone. This is Blockchain Socialist,", "words": [ { "word": "hello", "start": 12.674999, "end": 12.755, "confidence": 0.9547453, "punctuated_word": "Hello,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.4285295 }, { "word": "everyone", "start": 12.755, "end": 13.235, "confidence": 0.99552166, "punctuated_word": "everyone.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.4285295 }, { "word": "this", "start": 13.235, "end": 13.554999, "confidence": 0.99665606, "punctuated_word": "This", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.4285295 }, { "word": "is", "start": 13.554999, "end": 13.875, "confidence": 0.9990108, "punctuated_word": "is", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.4285295 }, { "word": "blockchain", "start": 13.875, "end": 14.355, "confidence": 0.8814893, "punctuated_word": "Blockchain", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.4285295 }, { "word": "socialist", "start": 14.355, "end": 14.855, "confidence": 0.7304896, "punctuated_word": "Socialist,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.4285295 } ], "speaker": 0, "id": "86cd2317-4196-4043-80fd-f29f0f499c15" }, { "start": 15.155, "end": 19.335, "confidence": 0.98397636, "channel": 0, "transcript": "and you're listening to another new episode. 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How are you doing?", "words": [ { "word": "hey", "start": 32.39, "end": 32.629997, "confidence": 0.9500693, "punctuated_word": "Hey,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.1792432 }, { "word": "chibu", "start": 32.629997, "end": 33.03, "confidence": 0.66689396, "punctuated_word": "Chibu.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.1792432 }, { "word": "how", "start": 33.03, "end": 33.11, "confidence": 0.99810237, "punctuated_word": "How", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.1792432 }, { "word": "are", "start": 33.11, "end": 33.27, "confidence": 0.6158983, "punctuated_word": "are", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.1792432 }, { "word": "you", "start": 33.27, "end": 33.35, "confidence": 0.9992047, "punctuated_word": "you", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.1792432 }, { "word": "doing", "start": 33.35, "end": 33.85, "confidence": 0.999684, "punctuated_word": "doing?", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.1792432 } ], "speaker": 0, "id": "15561f90-7986-4379-83b2-c56e1ba4ed9a" }, { "start": 34.55, "end": 35.93, "confidence": 0.9969686, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Good. Good. How are you?", "words": [ { "word": "good", "start": 34.55, "end": 34.87, "confidence": 0.9860266, "punctuated_word": "Good.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.11559987 }, { "word": "good", "start": 34.87, "end": 35.19, "confidence": 0.99947894, "punctuated_word": "Good.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.11559987 }, { "word": "how", "start": 35.19, "end": 35.35, "confidence": 0.9996904, "punctuated_word": "How", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.11559987 }, { "word": "are", "start": 35.35, "end": 35.43, "confidence": 0.9997495, "punctuated_word": "are", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.11559987 }, { "word": "you", "start": 35.43, "end": 35.93, "confidence": 0.9998977, "punctuated_word": "you?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.11559987 } ], "speaker": 1, "id": "aa2c82dc-72ea-47f0-ad70-ad7991bac46e" }, { "start": 36.71, "end": 38.25, "confidence": 0.96609354, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Pretty good. 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And how how does that, you know, how does that internally work,", "words": [ { "word": "right", "start": 1872.225, "end": 1872.7051, "confidence": 0.99657774, "punctuated_word": "Right.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.17514062 }, { "word": "and", "start": 1872.7051, "end": 1872.785, "confidence": 0.5242068, "punctuated_word": "And", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.36275 }, { "word": "how", "start": 1872.785, "end": 1873.105, "confidence": 0.99700135, "punctuated_word": "how", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.36275 }, { "word": "how", "start": 1873.105, "end": 1873.265, "confidence": 0.9928241, "punctuated_word": "how", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.36275 }, { "word": "does", "start": 1873.265, "end": 1873.425, "confidence": 0.99863964, "punctuated_word": "does", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.36275 }, { "word": "that", "start": 1873.425, "end": 1873.925, "confidence": 0.9764463, "punctuated_word": "that,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.36275 }, 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If you're enjoying this interview so far and you want to be sure that more content like this can be made, you can, of course, donate to my efforts through Patreon. 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