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Like, I think one of my first, like, tweets when I came onto Twitter, like, a few months ago, Like, I was seeing, like, Wagmi everywhere. And I'm like, who is we? Like, is it, like, this, like, upper class of, like, neoliberal people who are, like, basically being the, like, early adopters of these tools and this space? Or is it is the we are all gonna make it, like, speaking to, like, you were saying, like, this broader public, because we're going to create things that save us from capitalism. And I obviously hope it's the latter, but I have a sense that it's more the former. So, yeah, I I guess I can just echo or I can confirm that public goods is used at a nauseating amount when it wasn't exactly clear, like, what public goods are or, like, how a particular, project is serving the public. And I think, you know, you you had mentioned, you know, the the word neoliberal, which I think is a whole other can of worms for, like, discussing these sort of ideology behind, like, one, the conception of public goods as presented at ETHDenver or just, like, a lot of the spaces ideas generally where there is this, like, idea of, like, the public as being a public of consumers who, like, are allocating capital as preference. Right? Like, I think, you know, it's you can often hear, like, the the very DeFi people. Right? They'll talk about, like, your tokens as being almost, like, political statements. And I think that's just, like, the most dangerous of thinking. Right? Because what does your citizenry look like in a society where political expression is represented by where you allocate capital. Right? Like, that sure. That's something capitalists do, but, like, we are we are the public. We are you know? Like, the workers do not do that. And when your conception of public good bakes into the, like, fact that, well, well, you know, we're gonna have a sort of, voting system with tokens where people can allocate here and they can, you know, delegate tokens there. Right? And that's if at some point, there's a sort of buy in or if you're airdropping to everybody and then, like, yeah, like, people have to sell tokens to pay rent sometimes. And who's doing that? It's the it's the real public. Right? And the people who never have to do that, the people who can hold through a bear market are going to be, like, the, you know, the the people who the the capitalists. And I think what you're left with is, like, this increasing precarity that they will end up placing on people by gating, quote, unquote, public goods or the governance over them. Right? Because the governance is going to reflect the the desire like, it's gonna reflect the desires of who has the most tokens at that point, and that's going to make the good itself serve their interest the vote the most. And you you increasingly marginalize people away from what otherwise would be a public good. Right? Like, it's not exactly, it's not it's not public if it's serving the interests of your financial needs more than your literal needs as a, I don't know, an existing person on the Internet. Yeah. I get the impression that, I think a lot of the experimentation is, interesting and fairly novel in the crypto space, more or less, as as far as things go. But at the same time, a lot of the mental models I think people are using to create, like, for democratizing or decentralizing, their protocols or their projects, just sort of, like, fits it it looks just like a, like a stock market. Like, as if they're just, like, dropping shares to everyone, which is maybe better than, like, closed off, like, I don't know, stock public offerings that are only available to, like, people with a certain net worth or something like that. It might be better than that, but it's still, like, incomplete like, there there's still a lot wrong with it, I think, from from from our point of view, I would assume. And that's probably why a lot of these things sort of just look like, like, if you are a socialist looking into it, it's sort of like, well, that just looks like the stock market, which is not really what I want. But also, I guess, decentralized ownership under capitalism also may kinda look like a stock market to a certain degree. Yeah. I guess, were there any other, like, sort of noteworthy things that you noticed while, attending the conferences? Well, I I would say, you know, in this What's what's your best your best story? Best story? I mean, I I would say probably connecting with the the crypto leftist in the community. This is something, like, maybe more meta, but for the members of the Discord or people who hang out on the Reddit, I think it's, like, valuable and validating as someone who's in crypto. We obviously spent a lot of time either listening to podcasts or tweeting or reading tweets or scrolling wherever. And, you know, having a perspective we feel is not mainstream for this space and especially when you wanna talk to other leftist about it. It is generally, you know, it's line go up type content. Right? It's, and so, yeah, I think I think my highlight would just be spending the week, like, walking around the conference being like, oh, hey. Hey, Matt. Hey. Hey, Charles. What's what's going on? Like and then talking to them and then being like, yeah. Like, there is someone here who who has, like, the same lens and, you know, sort of foundational value system I have. And, like, I would encourage anyone listening to this to try and connect with more people like that because it it's encouraging for staying in the space. I think that if you do go, like, absolutely. Like, that is the way to do it. Like, those were my favorite moments of all the, like, silly parties that I went to. Like, my conversation with James and fellow crypto leftist were, like, my favorite, most enlightening parts of the conference. However, honestly, like, I don't think that I would go to another conference like this. Like, I think that it feels, like, having friends in the space who are coming from, like, multiple different places, like, it feels like a hotbed for people who, like, wanna chill their projects and who want to get funding. And, and so it feels like a big networking event of people just kind of trying to, like, charm each other much of the time. And so I think with the nature of the project that we're working on and kind of the intention that I brought to youth Denver, like, much of it just felt like a mismatch. Like, I would be like, oh, we're working on this mutual aid app. People would be like, what's mutual aid? We would talk about it, and they'd be like, that's nice. And then it was, like, conversation over. And so I was like, you know, I I think that they were wonderful learnings, but I think it made me question, like, what am I doing here? Like, it, like, it feels like a lot of the people at the conference have quite a different intention than I do. And I think that that's fair. Also also maybe what you expected. Yeah. I guess I it just also felt like icky environment sometimes. And so I was like, okay. Like, I maybe might have actually had especially at events like Schelling Point, like, might have had an easier time just tuning in from online because, James might have been able James might agree, but, like, at the conference, it was, like, so loud. It was, like, trying to listen to people talk in, like, a crowded cafeteria. 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I think I feel like that about much of the language in the space. Like, as mentioned, it's just like, you know, this, like, NFT gated, like, ultra wealthy, like, group, like, is a social club is called a community. And, like, you know, again, just terms like mutual aid and public goods, I I do think are far overused. Like, it's like, what is this, like, public we are referring to?\n\nLike, I think one of my first, like, tweets when I came onto Twitter, like, a few months ago, Like, I was seeing, like, Wagmi everywhere. And I'm like, who is we? Like, is it, like, this, like, upper class of, like, neoliberal people who are, like, basically being the, like, early adopters of these tools and this space? Or is it is the we are all gonna make it, like, speaking to, like, you were saying, like, this broader public, because we're going to create things that save us from capitalism. And I obviously hope it's the latter, but I have a sense that it's more the former.\n\nSo, yeah, I I guess I can just echo or I can confirm that public goods is used at a nauseating amount when it wasn't exactly clear, like, what public goods are or, like, how a particular, project is serving the public.\n\nSpeaker 1: And I think, you know, you you had mentioned, you know, the the word neoliberal, which I think is a whole other can of worms for, like, discussing these sort of ideology behind, like, one, the conception of public goods as presented at ETHDenver or just, like, a lot of the spaces ideas generally where there is this, like, idea of, like, the public as being a public of consumers who, like, are allocating capital as preference. Right? Like, I think, you know, it's you can often hear, like, the the very DeFi people. Right? They'll talk about, like, your tokens as being almost, like, political statements.\n\nAnd I think that's just, like, the most dangerous of thinking. Right? Because what does your citizenry look like in a society where political expression is represented by where you allocate capital. Right? Like, that sure.\n\nThat's something capitalists do, but, like, we are we are the public. We are you know? Like, the workers do not do that. And when your conception of public good bakes into the, like, fact that, well, well, you know, we're gonna have a sort of, voting system with tokens where people can allocate here and they can, you know, delegate tokens there. Right?\n\nAnd that's if at some point, there's a sort of buy in or if you're airdropping to everybody and then, like, yeah, like, people have to sell tokens to pay rent sometimes. And who's doing that? It's the it's the real public. Right? And the people who never have to do that, the people who can hold through a bear market are going to be, like, the, you know, the the people who the the capitalists.\n\nAnd I think what you're left with is, like, this increasing precarity that they will end up placing on people by gating, quote, unquote, public goods or the governance over them. Right? Because the governance is going to reflect the the desire like, it's gonna reflect the desires of who has the most tokens at that point, and that's going to make the good itself serve their interest the vote the most. And you you increasingly marginalize people away from what otherwise would be a public good. Right?\n\nLike, it's not exactly, it's not it's not public if it's serving the interests of your financial needs more than your literal needs as a, I don't know, an existing person on the Internet.\n\nSpeaker 2: Yeah. I get the impression that, I think a lot of the experimentation is, interesting and fairly novel in the crypto space, more or less, as as far as things go. But at the same time, a lot of the mental models I think people are using to create, like, for democratizing or decentralizing, their protocols or their projects, just sort of, like, fits it it looks just like a, like a stock market. Like, as if they're just, like, dropping shares to everyone, which is maybe better than, like, closed off, like, I don't know, stock public offerings that are only available to, like, people with a certain net worth or something like that. It might be better than that, but it's still, like, incomplete like, there there's still a lot wrong with it, I think, from from from our point of view, I would assume.\n\nAnd that's probably why a lot of these things sort of just look like, like, if you are a socialist looking into it, it's sort of like, well, that just looks like the stock market, which is not really what I want. But also, I guess, decentralized ownership under capitalism also may kinda look like a stock market to a certain degree. Yeah. I guess, were there any other, like, sort of noteworthy things that you noticed while, attending the conferences?\n\nSpeaker 1: Well, I I would say, you know, in this What's\n\nSpeaker 2: what's your best your best story?\n\nSpeaker 1: Best story? I mean, I I would say probably connecting with the the crypto leftist in the community. This is something, like, maybe more meta, but for the members of the Discord or people who hang out on the Reddit, I think it's, like, valuable and validating as someone who's in crypto. We obviously spent a lot of time either listening to podcasts or tweeting or reading tweets or scrolling wherever. And, you know, having a perspective we feel is not mainstream for this space and especially when you wanna talk to other leftist about it.\n\nIt is generally, you know, it's line go up type content. Right? It's, and so, yeah, I think I think my highlight would just be spending the week, like, walking around the conference being like, oh, hey. Hey, Matt. Hey.\n\nHey, Charles. What's what's going on? Like and then talking to them and then being like, yeah. Like, there is someone here who who has, like, the same lens and, you know, sort of foundational value system I have. And, like, I would encourage anyone listening to this to try and connect with more people like that because it it's encouraging for staying in the space.\n\nSpeaker 0: I think that if you do go, like, absolutely. Like, that is the way to do it. Like, those were my favorite moments of all the, like, silly parties that I went to. Like, my conversation with James and fellow crypto leftist were, like, my favorite, most enlightening parts of the conference. However, honestly, like, I don't think that I would go to another conference like this.\n\nLike, I think that it feels, like, having friends in the space who are coming from, like, multiple different places, like, it feels like a hotbed for people who, like, wanna chill their projects and who want to get funding. And, and so it feels like a big networking event of people just kind of trying to, like, charm each other much of the time. And so I think with the nature of the project that we're working on and kind of the intention that I brought to youth Denver, like, much of it just felt like a mismatch. Like, I would be like, oh, we're working on this mutual aid app. People would be like, what's mutual aid?\n\nWe would talk about it, and they'd be like, that's nice. And then it was, like, conversation over. And so I was like, you know, I I think that they were wonderful learnings, but I think it made me question, like, what am I doing here? Like, it, like, it feels like a lot of the people at the conference have quite a different intention than I do. And I think that that's fair.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also also maybe what\n\nSpeaker 0: you expected. Yeah. I guess I it just also felt like icky environment sometimes. And so I was like, okay. Like, I maybe might have actually had especially at events like Schelling Point, like, might have had an easier time just tuning in from online because, James might have been able James might agree, but, like, at the conference, it was, like, so loud.\n\nIt was, like, trying to listen to people talk in, like, a crowded cafeteria. And so, yeah, I feel like in many ways with the conference, like, people listening online might have had a better experience.", "paragraphs": [ { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 0.88, "end": 1.12 }, { "text": "I think I feel like that about much of the language in the space.", "start": 1.12, "end": 3.6799998 }, { "text": "Like, as mentioned, it's just like, you know, this, like, NFT gated, like, ultra wealthy, like, group, like, is a social club is called a community.", "start": 3.6799998, "end": 12.799999 }, { "text": "And, like, you know, again, just terms like mutual aid and public goods, I I do think are far overused.", "start": 12.799999, "end": 19.145 }, { "text": "Like, it's like, what is this, like, public we are referring to?", "start": 19.205, "end": 22.404999 } ], "start": 0.88, "end": 22.404999, "num_words": 73.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Like, I think one of my first, like, tweets when I came onto Twitter, like, a few months ago, Like, I was 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I think I feel like that about much of the language in the space. 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