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And they're all doing this thing called restaking which is actually I think a really interesting thing that a lot more people should should know about. Commitments, I like the phrase commitments better than restaking because it just makes more sense to normal people. Right? Even though the mechanism might be the same like you but like the language about how we describe it, like, you know, I think really does matter in terms of, like, normal people being able to grok this, like And so, like, what commitments offer and and, like, smart contracts and and and blockchains, you can think of smart contracts and blockchains as like commitment machines, like the commit to a certain set of rules. Right? Yeah. No. We can use this to actually make really really crazy collaboration primitives that, like, will just, like, I think cuck being more selfish and additively minded, monsters and to build the commons. I think you actually do need a a blockchain. Well, I think I won't wouldn't say you always need it, but it actually is like probably like the best thing we have for, like, a multinational, like, attempt at doing this, like Yeah. In a very, like, secure and trusted way. Yeah. It can't be shut down. Hey, guys. What you're about to watch is one of the many interviews I took during my time in Thailand for Defcon twenty twenty four. I was in the country for a total of over a month and got the opportunity to meet a bunch of really cool people and interview them in person. DevCon itself was an incredible and interesting experience, and you can find my full review of it on my Patreon. So if you like the content I've been making and would like me to continue going to these kinds of events and improving, then I hope you'll become a patron starting at just $3 per month for access to loads of bonus content and Blockchain Socialist merch at patreon.com/theblockchainsocialist. I am here in Chiang Mai, Thailand where I'm doing short twenty minute videos with, a lot of people that are around in Chiang Mai. This is kind of, like, a bit before DevCon, and throughout DevCon, I'll be doing a similar thing. And, for this first interview, I am going to be speaking to Jay Cardinal, who is the, founder of DAO DAO and, Lair. This is your latest project. It's called Lair. It's Lair is a verb. You know? It's the act of making layers. Oh, you should maybe. If you can clip clip this onto your, cool. I'm using it. It's not too much. Yeah. It's called layer. We're we're kind of it's kind of a joke because there's, like, so many things called Lair and, you know, trying to do, like, interesting things with, like, the most boring names possible. Okay. So, yeah. There's many layers to the layer project. Mhmm. They're like, right now, we're just, like, really focused on, like, letting people build, like, extensions to Ethereum and, like, full stack decentralized applications. Right? Like so, like, thinking, like, a lot more than smart contracts. You know? And there's, like, this new thing that is called actively validated services or restaking. You might have heard of things like IBN layer or symbiotic or, like, Babylon chain and, like, the Bitcoin world. And they're all doing this thing called restaking, which is actually, I think, a really interesting thing that a lot more people should should know about because, not only can you use this, like, let's just call it a mechanism. Now we can use this mechanism for, like, running secure off chain services, like, off chain compute. Like, if you wanted to have your own decentralized oracle, if you wanted to have your own decentralized AI agent or a decentralized proven marketplaces, or all the millions of different types of, like, decentralized off chain pro like, pro like, programs that people can run. You know, but then, like, these this this restaking mechanism, which I think we should just rebrand to commitments, is actually really, really interesting for things like governance and network nations and, like, DeFi, and, yeah, so. Sure. So, like, maybe to just to, like, help the audience kind of, situate themselves on kind of, like, the the very particular niche of the crypto world that we're talking about, Eigenlayer is basically one of, like, a company that has figured out how to take your stake on Ethereum, so Ethereum is on proof of stake, you put in 32 ETH, to take that stake and rather than just validating the Ethereum blockchain, you can use it to validate other types of decentralized services or computational services that may require some sort of decentralized network of computers in the same way as Ethereum. So basically you can you can say I am not only going to stake on Ethereum but I'm also going to do these other decentralized services and I'm putting my stake of Ethereum on the line to to do that. I'm committing to the computation of these particular services that I am voluntarily doing with my computer. Wow. That was, like, a better description than what I gave. Cool. Yeah. So Lair is one of these kind of, like, ABS projects that is specifically trying to We're we're trying to make a stack that allows you to make layers and some of these layers are ABS's, some might be things like roll ups or chains. We just wanna make tools for you to make more of these things. Right. Right. And so I think the the particular kind of thing that we want to zoom in on with the technology that Lair is working on is specifically commitments and using what is I mean just to give maybe slightly more context like I at least I don't know how you've seen it but what I've seen is the eigenlayer stuff and the kind of adding on of these services on top of Ethereum stake has kind of become or what I've seen dominate a lot is like a a mindset of financialization or a mindset of like leveraging your stake for more rewards by for others like through other services. Mhmm. And that can be seen in that framework but I think what we want to talk about a little bit more is how instead we can think about it in a different framework rather than like using it as a purely incentive mechanisms for more money but like committing to, like, a broad range of different types of agreements. Yeah. Totally. And, like so, yeah. Like, commitments I like the phrase commitments better than restaking because it just makes more sense to normal people. Right? Even though the mechanism might be the same, like, you but, like, the language about how we describe it, like, you know, I think really does matter in terms of, like, normal people being able to this, like, concept because, like, you are committing to something. Right? You are committing to lock your tokens to pick a validator, and you're gonna get some rewards for that. You're committing to get those rewards, but you're also committing to pay a potential penalty if the validator that you picked, misbehaved, right? And that's like a staking commitment, right? For like a proof of stake blockchain at a high level, right? We can think about other types of commitments too, right? For example, you're like an actively validated service is an off chain service, and we tend to think of that as like a program, like you're committing to run a certain program in a certain way. Right? But, you know, that could also work for, like, off chain kind of governance processes as well. Right? These things are all kind of, like, asynchronous in Mhmm. In some ways. And so, like, you know, like, a classic problem that a lot of people have is, like, let's say you have two organizations. Right? And to make matters complicated, we're in two different countries. And to make matters even more complicated, they're two third world countries, right? With, maybe they don't have a good governance system of, or like rule of law, right? And we want to work together and collaborate together, right? So how do we do that in the modern world right now? Well, it's a huge pain in the ass. So basically, well, maybe we don't trust the government of your country, and maybe you don't trust the government of my country, like, you know, so then we have to find some third party country, like Singapore, like, you know, Panama, or like there's many, many countries that, like, kind of fulfill these, like, third party Mhmm. Kind of roles. Right? And then we we we we make our agreement and we designate that as the court, like the country in which, like, our agreement will be resolved if there's a dispute between us. Mhmm. And let's say there is a dispute between us, what do we have to do? Well, now we've got to spend a lot of money on international lawyers, and Not everybody can obviously afford to pay like massive rates of international lawyers right so you know if this if this suit is not worth spending like hundreds of thousands of dollars on Well, we are out of luck already but if it let's say it is you know you think it's worth it to like really fight this out right you have to pay those lawyers you fight it out in like Singapore or whatever your third party court was and you win well now you have to like collect Right? So just because you won in court doesn't mean you, like, automatically get the money. Now you have to go through your, like, the process of trying to, like, collect from me, and my government in my country might not be, like, super helpful in helping you do that. Right? Right. And so it's just, like, even in this, like, international law context, like, first of all, we can see, like, a lot of the legacy of, like, colonialism in that we have an international justice system, but it only works for some people. And even then, it doesn't work that well even for those people. So, like, even if you're, like, running, like, some international organization, like, you're dealing with a very inefficient and very expensive system that doesn't, like, help your bottom line. Right? And so, like, what commitments offer and, like, smart contracts and and and blockchains, you can think of smart contracts and blockchains as, like, commitment machines, like, they commit to a certain set of rules. Right? And with smart contract chains, we can extend the set of rules by which they, like, make commitments. And so we could let's say we have our two orgs again, and we wanted to, collaborate or, like, come to some agreement, right? One of the things we could do is because we're already restaking our Ethereum, right? We have another commitment contract where we, like, opt in to, like, you know, with a certain amount of collateral. Maybe we don't trust each other. Right? We opt in with a certain amount of collateral to have that backing the agreement. And then as a third party, we might specify a Claro's court or some DAO or maybe even, like, bread chain or whatever. Like, we specify a third party that, like, gets to decide what the dispute is. Right? Or we specify in the smart contract the process by which, you know, maybe it's just submitting a z k proof of some evidence. Right? Like Mhmm. Anyway, once that's, like, you know, we, like, basically, like, have this, like, restaking commitment that we both are, like, making a commitment towards. Right? It's just like a two party thing. Right? Now that we have that, let's say this dispute happens again. We go to that DAO. Right? They provide their judgment. They they decide, and then you instantly get the money. Right? And so we're, like, actually doing a better job than, like, an international justice system. Right? Are we creating at least the more efficient one, which hopefully even the rich people that don't listen to blockchain socialists should understand, but we're also making one that's, like, much more cost effective for, like, you know, like, a lot more people to actually use and get some use and guarantees out of it, right? So, like, even if you don't, like, live in, a very desirable country or you don't have access to, like, international lawyers or enough funds to pay for them, you can still use blockchain to create, like, enforce enforceable agreements that, like, help you, like, you know, go about and act in the world, like, you know, doing things like raise money. Right? Like, raising money is like a type of commitment. Like, you know, there's usually legal contracts that come with this. Right? And so commitments is, like, leveraging this sort of, like, lock up mechanism of Aggelayer, like like, at a high level. And, like, there's a lot of better documentation you can read if you really wanna learn this stuff. It's, like, we're locking in tokens in a vault, right? We can think of this vault as a standard, right? And the goal of this vault is to enforce the things that we opt into, you know? Mhmm. To enforce our commitments, right? So if we opt into taking on a certain amount of risk, right? You know, one great example for risk, commitments are great for risk sharing, and I think that that that allows us to build things like potentially, like, insurance protocols and other types of things. Right? Like, imagine we wanna host a huge party as Like a group of like breadchain and like doubt out and like a bunch of like groups like decided they want to like throw like a really cool like all the car people we get all the cool people and What like there's always going to be risk for like throwing a party right like what happens if someone gets injured or something gets really broken and you know? Where the cops come and then like some people get thrown in jail and like we have to get them out or we have to bribe the cops You know or like whatever right So what the group could do is they could actually all just make a commitment for this event. In the event that there is some triggering thing as defined by these groups of people, some bad thing happens, we'll have our like, collateral as backing for, like, to counteract that bad bad bad bad, right? Like, in essence, like, commitments, I think, are, like, it's a good framework that I really want people to think about, like, the actual smart contract mechanisms behind, because it's like, what we're doing is, like, we're creating, like, mutualization agreements. Mhmm. Like like agreements that go both way. In fact, this is I think one of the things that I'm kind of missing in the restaking world these days is like oftentimes like the people building restaking systems, it's all about them providing economic security. Right? Yeah. And, you know, at least for, like, us, we've been working on this thing called mesh security Mhmm. For a really long time. And, like, commitments is sort of just an evolution of that, and one of the important principles is that they're bidirectional. We can make a bidirectional commitment. So, I can make a commitment to you, you can make a commitment to me. That might be over things of, like, how we share rewards, like, potential revenue or potential things that may come. Right? How we want to share risk, how we want to maybe have collateral, you know, like, if we don't fully each other, we want collateral stakes, like, so that we can, like, at least trust, you know, that you're gonna do the profitable thing. Right? Like, why would you Yeah. And the cool thing about, I think, commitments is we can, like, design a bunch of these things, a bunch of these commitment mechanisms to create what the next level thing, which I think is, like, entanglement protocols. So how do organizations of organizations, like, happen? Like, how do we get, like, a bunch of, like, separate teams or separate DAOs or separate companies to, like, come together and form, like, higher level governance entities, right? Mhmm. Like, entangle like, commitments, entanglement protocols allow this to happen in a very bottoms up kind of fashion. Right? Mhmm. It's like the opposite of, like, the network state where there's, like, some top down sovereign that's enforcing something. Right? Like, commitments and entanglement protocols allow a bunch of different organizations all to come together and then opt into higher order things. Mhmm. That's very different. Right, right. Coming from, like, the power is coming up from the bottoms up in terms of what individuals and individual organizations are opting into as, like, as opposed to, like yeah. I don't know. I've just been rambling for a while, but if you're interested in commitments and entanglement protocols and you wanna work on such things. Yeah. I think what what is interesting about this as well, just maybe for interested in context for the for the listeners, is that this is actually really common in places like the world of cooperatives. Like cooperatives, there I can't remember which country it was or if there was something in some sort of, like, bylaws, but there is generally a commitment between cooperatives to handle legal disputes between each other that you don't go to like whatever nation state legal system in order to deal with your issues because they understand that their issues are not like cared for by the states, that the the legal system is already designed by corporations and that the legal system is therefore legally designed in the interest of corporations. So there's no there's like not too good of a reason to do it when you can settle it yourselves. So there are these types of kind of like private law, like courts that also private and there is like a definitely a more kind of like I think as things get a little bit mushy where you can do it for ends of deregulation and financialization of these special economic zones but you can also do it in the case of like a rejection of the status quo being one that is already dominated by corporate interests so why would you go into that? So I think, you know, the blockchain offers us like this interesting space for like it although it seems on the surface like just financial commitments here we're saying that like no this can't actually expand beyond just the financial and we can do this at a level that is like kind of mutual and we can increase the complexity like from the inside out rather than from like you know everyone pray to Balaji for, you know, entering into the whatever fucking network state thing that he's on to in that moment. Yeah. No. We can use this to actually make really, really crazy collaboration primitives that, like, will just, like, I think, cuck, you know, more selfish competitively minded, monsters. And to build the commons. Yeah. I mean, it's like I think that the commons and collaboration are actually, like, very, very effective strategies, and, I think that they'll dominate. Yeah. Yeah. I I really do. I think but but I do think we need, like, the right primitives that enable for, like, bottoms up organization that, like, respects people's, like, sovereignty and stuff like that because, like, and also just, like, allow these new primitives to really emerge. I think that, it's surprising to me that, like, even though DeFi has, like, had a lot of time to come up with, like, basically most financial primitives, There's one primitive that is actually very common in the real world that, like, I've not seen DeFi really tackle, though you could argue restaking is also kind of, like, a version of this primitive, and that's, like, a lien. Mhmm. Like, the concept of lien, right, which is, like, that, like, if you have your money in a bank, there can be, like, a lien on your account. Right? Like, it's, like, such a simple mechanism, but it underlies everything from mortgage contracts, which, you know, like, are are basically, like, loans for people. Right? Like, you know, as long as people are making payments on their house on time, they own their house. There's nothing the bank can do. But if they break the contract, the the bank can get a lien on their house. Right? And, you know, but you I think it's important to think about, like, how these systems can also be used for, like, the commons as well. Because what it really is, it's about, like, how do you enforce the commons? How do you enforce Right. Rules without, again, having, like, a top down, like Yeah. Yeah. You know, kind of a sovereign. Right? And you need that sort of, like, bottoms up commitment and of, like, people sort of, like, opting into additional conditions and rules Yeah. In exchange for benefits, mind you. Right? Like, we, like, I think that what's really great about them is it gives us this very rich mix of both the carrot, obviously, which everyone's focused on, but it also gives us, like, the stick, right? Which allows us to build, like, you know, more one of the crazy things to me is, like, someone who spent a lot of time in Dows is, like, how many, like, disputes, like, basically still wind up in lawsuits which Alright. Which to me is, like, always a challenge that the tooling is not good enough yet and I think that if more things, like, if we can, like, grow this vocabulary of commitments, if we can think about new types of commitment mechanisms for different types of things that, like, I do hope we'll get to a world where that doesn't happen anymore. But Mhmm. That, in fact, like, most things resolve themselves off chain and very few things resolve like resolve themselves on chain and very few things like are resolved in the court cases. I don't think you'll ever completely get rid of that but you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, at least form the basis. I mean I I can imagine you make a situation where the opportunity costs of, you know, going to court are simply much higher than, once after the fact you have made a commitment that is on chain, that you just simply don't want to go through the hassle of going through the nation state court if you don't. Yeah. Also just like time. It's like better UX. Right? Like, would you rather wait, like, three years to get your money or would you rather get your money once the dispute is instantly resolved? Like Right. Right. I I this is much better UX like I I feel like you know, Yeah. It's tackling I think just back to the comments part of, yeah being a part of a commons, being part of, like, community, like, ought to have commitment to it. Like, you can't I mean, to to, you know, get out of this, like, kind of, freeloader problem in these types of communities, Conflict is difficult, and you can make systems where it's difficult to predict all the conflicts that are going to arise, but to at least have some sort of basis in which you are committed to some type of action and some form of solidarity which requires a commitment, and that we don't need a fucking we don't need a nation state to do it, legal system. Maybe we don't need a blockchain to do it, but sometimes maybe we do. Sometimes it would be nice. I think you actually do need a a blockchain. Well, I think I won't wouldn't say you always need it, but it actually is, like, probably, like, the best thing we have for, like, a multinational, like, attempt at doing this, like Yeah. In a very, like, secure and trusted way. Yeah. It can't be shut down. So it's, like, particular context, which may become more and more frequent, I think, with just the way things are going and just also having that possibility to do it, can make it more frequent. Yeah. So let's, let's get Brad Shane, like, all in some commitments and, you know, that's, you know, also, you know, if you can, like, get restaking, like, you you know, or commitments. Right? Getting We're doing that. Getting that reward, put direct that make a commitment to direct that reward towards the commons. Right? And I think that this is really great is because, you know, there's no mechanism by which we can have, like, a bunch of different blockchains, for example. Let's say there's, like, some new thing that we'd all benefit from, right? Like, how do we commit that we're all going to, like, provide some, like, some certain amount of funds to, like, help develop that thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Interacting with the bread chain is a commitment, and we are committed to you, comrades. Yeah. It's, get your bread. Bake that bread. Yeah. Alright. Thanks, Jake, so much for enlightening us with with this work. I don't know if it was enlightening. I hope it was not Definitely. Everything. I think it was a good introduction for people. Yeah? Yeah. Appreciate it. Next time we'll do it with, like, UI and, like, presentation because it's much easier to have pictures. Well, send me the pictures. I'll put them on top. That's amazing. 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"punctuated_word": "Alright.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.27837116 } ], "summaries": null, "paragraphs": { "transcript": "\nSpeaker 0: They're like right now we're just like really focused on like letting people build like extensions to Ethereum and like full stack decentralized applications. Right? Like so like thinking like a lot more than smart contracts and there's like this new thing that is called actively validated services or restaking. You might have heard of things like I can layer or symbiotic or like Babylon chain and like the Bitcoin world. And they're all doing this thing called restaking which is actually I think a really interesting thing that a lot more people should should know about.\n\nCommitments, I like the phrase commitments better than restaking because it just makes more sense to normal people. Right? Even though the mechanism might be the same like you but like the language about how we describe it, like, you know, I think really does matter in terms of, like, normal people being able to grok this, like And so, like, what commitments offer and and, like, smart contracts and and and blockchains, you can think of smart contracts and blockchains as like commitment machines, like the commit to a certain set of rules. Right? Yeah.\n\nNo. We can use this to actually make really really crazy collaboration primitives that, like, will just, like, I think cuck being more selfish and additively minded, monsters\n\nSpeaker 1: and to build the commons.\n\nSpeaker 0: I think you actually do need a a blockchain. Well, I think I won't wouldn't say you always need it, but it actually is like probably like the best thing we have for, like, a multinational, like, attempt at doing this, like Yeah. In a very, like, secure and trusted way. Yeah. It can't be shut down.\n\nHey, guys. What you're about\n\nSpeaker 1: to watch is one of the many interviews I took during my time in Thailand for Defcon twenty twenty four. I was in the country for a total of over a month and got the opportunity to meet a bunch of really cool people and interview them in person. DevCon itself was an incredible and interesting experience, and you can find my full review of it on my Patreon. So if you like the content I've been making and would like me to continue going to these kinds of events and improving, then I hope you'll become a patron starting at just $3 per month for access to loads of bonus content and Blockchain Socialist merch at patreon.com/theblockchainsocialist. I am here in Chiang Mai, Thailand where I'm doing short twenty minute videos with, a lot of people that are around in Chiang Mai.\n\nThis is kind of, like, a bit before DevCon, and throughout DevCon, I'll be doing a similar thing. And, for this first interview, I am going to be speaking to Jay Cardinal, who is the, founder of DAO DAO and, Lair. This is\n\nSpeaker 0: your latest project. It's called Lair. It's Lair is a verb. You know? It's the act of making layers.\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh, you should maybe. If you can clip clip this onto your, cool. I'm using it. It's not too much.\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah. It's called layer. We're we're kind of it's kind of a joke because there's, like, so many things called Lair and, you know, trying to do, like, interesting things with, like, the most boring names possible. Okay. So, yeah.\n\nThere's many layers to the layer project. Mhmm. They're like, right now, we're just, like, really focused on, like, letting people build, like, extensions to Ethereum and, like, full stack decentralized applications. Right? Like so, like, thinking, like, a lot more than smart contracts.\n\nYou know? And there's, like, this new thing that is called actively validated services or restaking. You might have heard of things like IBN layer or symbiotic or, like, Babylon chain and, like, the Bitcoin world. And they're all doing this thing called restaking, which is actually, I think, a really interesting thing that a lot more people should should know about because, not only can you use this, like, let's just call it a mechanism. Now we can use this mechanism for, like, running secure off chain services, like, off chain compute.\n\nLike, if you wanted to have your own decentralized oracle, if you wanted to have your own decentralized AI agent or a decentralized proven marketplaces, or all the millions of different types of, like, decentralized off chain pro like, pro like, programs that people can run. You know, but then, like, these this this restaking mechanism, which I think we should just rebrand to commitments, is actually really, really interesting for things like governance and network nations and, like, DeFi, and, yeah, so.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sure. So, like, maybe to just to, like, help the audience kind of, situate themselves on kind of, like, the the very particular niche of the crypto world that we're talking about, Eigenlayer is basically one of, like, a company that has figured out how to take your stake on Ethereum, so Ethereum is on proof of stake, you put in 32 ETH, to take that stake and rather than just validating the Ethereum blockchain, you can use it to validate other types of decentralized services or computational services that may require some sort of decentralized network of computers in the same way as Ethereum. So basically you can you can say I am not only going to stake on Ethereum but I'm also going to do these other decentralized services and I'm putting my stake of Ethereum on the line to to do that. I'm committing to the computation of these particular services that I am voluntarily doing with my computer.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wow. That was, like, a better description than what I gave.\n\nSpeaker 1: Cool. Yeah. So Lair is one of these kind of, like, ABS projects that is specifically trying to\n\nSpeaker 0: We're we're trying to make a stack that allows you to make layers and some of these layers are ABS's, some might be things like roll ups or chains. We just wanna make tools for you to make more of these things.\n\nSpeaker 1: Right. Right. And so I think the the particular kind of thing that we want to zoom in on with the technology that Lair is working on is specifically commitments and using what is I mean just to give maybe slightly more context like I at least I don't know how you've seen it but what I've seen is the eigenlayer stuff and the kind of adding on of these services on top of Ethereum stake has kind of become or what I've seen dominate a lot is like a a mindset of financialization or a mindset of like leveraging your stake for more rewards by for others like through other services.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhmm.\n\nSpeaker 1: And that can be seen in that framework but I think what we want to talk about a little bit more is how instead we can think about it in a different framework rather than like using it as a purely incentive mechanisms for more money but like committing to, like, a broad range of different types of agreements.\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah. Totally. And, like so, yeah. Like, commitments I like the phrase commitments better than restaking because it just makes more sense to normal people. Right?\n\nEven though the mechanism might be the same, like, you but, like, the language about how we describe it, like, you know, I think really does matter in terms of, like, normal people being able to this, like, concept because, like, you are committing to something. Right? You are committing to lock your tokens to pick a validator, and you're gonna get some rewards for that. You're committing to get those rewards, but you're also committing to pay a potential penalty if the validator that you picked, misbehaved, right? And that's like a staking commitment, right?\n\nFor like a proof of stake blockchain at a high level, right? We can think about other types of commitments too, right? For example, you're like an actively validated service is an off chain service, and we tend to think of that as like a program, like you're committing to run a certain program in a certain way. Right? But, you know, that could also work for, like, off chain kind of governance processes as well.\n\nRight? These things are all kind of, like, asynchronous in Mhmm. In some ways. And so, like, you know, like, a classic problem that a lot of people have is, like, let's say you have two organizations. Right?\n\nAnd to make matters complicated, we're in two different countries. And to make matters even more complicated, they're two third world countries, right? With, maybe they don't have a good governance system of, or like rule of law, right? And we want to work together and collaborate together, right? So how do we do that in the modern world right now?\n\nWell, it's a huge pain in the ass. So basically, well, maybe we don't trust the government of your country, and maybe you don't trust the government of my country, like, you know, so then we have to find some third party country, like Singapore, like, you know, Panama, or like there's many, many countries that, like, kind of fulfill these, like, third party Mhmm. Kind of roles. Right? And then we we we we make our agreement and we designate that as the court, like the country in which, like, our agreement will be resolved if there's a dispute between us.\n\nMhmm. And let's say there is a dispute between us, what do we have to do? Well, now we've got to spend a lot of money on international lawyers, and Not everybody can obviously afford to pay like massive rates of international lawyers right so you know if this if this suit is not worth spending like hundreds of thousands of dollars on Well, we are out of luck already but if it let's say it is you know you think it's worth it to like really fight this out right you have to pay those lawyers you fight it out in like Singapore or whatever your third party court was and you win well now you have to like collect Right? So just because you won in court doesn't mean you, like, automatically get the money. Now you have to go through your, like, the process of trying to, like, collect from me, and my government in my country might not be, like, super helpful in helping you do that.\n\nSpeaker 1: Right? Right.\n\nSpeaker 0: And so it's just, like, even in this, like, international law context, like, first of all, we can see, like, a lot of the legacy of, like, colonialism in that we have an international justice system, but it only works for some people. And even then, it doesn't work that well even for those people. So, like, even if you're, like, running, like, some international organization, like, you're dealing with a very inefficient and very expensive system that doesn't, like, help your bottom line. Right? And so, like, what commitments offer and, like, smart contracts and and and blockchains, you can think of smart contracts and blockchains as, like, commitment machines, like, they commit to a certain set of rules.\n\nRight? And with smart contract chains, we can extend the set of rules by which they, like, make commitments. And so we could let's say we have our two orgs again, and we wanted to, collaborate or, like, come to some agreement, right? One of the things we could do is because we're already restaking our Ethereum, right? We have another commitment contract where we, like, opt in to, like, you know, with a certain amount of collateral.\n\nMaybe we don't trust each other. Right? We opt in with a certain amount of collateral to have that backing the agreement. And then as a third party, we might specify a Claro's court or some DAO or maybe even, like, bread chain or whatever. Like, we specify a third party that, like, gets to decide what the dispute is.\n\nRight? Or we specify in the smart contract the process by which, you know, maybe it's just submitting a z k proof of some evidence. Right? Like Mhmm. Anyway, once that's, like, you know, we, like, basically, like, have this, like, restaking commitment that we both are, like, making a commitment towards.\n\nRight? It's just like a two party thing. Right? Now that we have that, let's say this dispute happens again. We go to that DAO.\n\nRight? They provide their judgment. They they decide, and then you instantly get the money. Right? And so we're, like, actually doing a better job than, like, an international justice system.\n\nRight? Are we creating at least the more efficient one, which hopefully even the rich people that don't listen to blockchain socialists should understand, but we're also making one that's, like, much more cost effective for, like, you know, like, a lot more people to actually use and get some use and guarantees out of it, right? So, like, even if you don't, like, live in, a very desirable country or you don't have access to, like, international lawyers or enough funds to pay for them, you can still use blockchain to create, like, enforce enforceable agreements that, like, help you, like, you know, go about and act in the world, like, you know, doing things like raise money. Right? Like, raising money is like a type of commitment.\n\nLike, you know, there's usually legal contracts that come with this. Right? And so commitments is, like, leveraging this sort of, like, lock up mechanism of Aggelayer, like like, at a high level. And, like, there's a lot of better documentation you can read if you really wanna learn this stuff. It's, like, we're locking in tokens in a vault, right?\n\nWe can think of this vault as a standard, right? And the goal of this vault is to enforce the things that we opt into, you know? Mhmm. To enforce our commitments, right? So if we opt into taking on a certain amount of risk, right?\n\nYou know, one great example for risk, commitments are great for risk sharing, and I think that that that allows us to build things like potentially, like, insurance protocols and other types of things. Right? Like, imagine we wanna host a huge party as Like a group of like breadchain and like doubt out and like a bunch of like groups like decided they want to like throw like a really cool like all the car people we get all the cool people and What like there's always going to be risk for like throwing a party right like what happens if someone gets injured or something gets really broken and you know? Where the cops come and then like some people get thrown in jail and like we have to get them out or we have to bribe the cops You know or like whatever right So what the group could do is they could actually all just make a commitment for this event. In the event that there is some triggering thing as defined by these groups of people, some bad thing happens, we'll have our like, collateral as backing for, like, to counteract that bad bad bad bad, right?\n\nLike, in essence, like, commitments, I think, are, like, it's a good framework that I really want people to think about, like, the actual smart contract mechanisms behind, because it's like, what we're doing is, like, we're creating, like, mutualization agreements. Mhmm. Like like agreements that go both way. In fact, this is I think one of the things that I'm kind of missing in the restaking world these days is like oftentimes like the people building restaking systems, it's all about them providing economic security. Right?\n\nYeah. And, you know, at least for, like, us, we've been working on this thing called mesh security\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhmm.\n\nSpeaker 0: For a really long time. And, like, commitments is sort of just an evolution of that, and one of the important principles is that they're bidirectional. We can make a bidirectional commitment. So, I can make a commitment to you, you can make a commitment to me. That might be over things of, like, how we share rewards, like, potential revenue or potential things that may come.\n\nRight? How we want to share risk, how we want to maybe have collateral, you know, like, if we don't fully each other, we want collateral stakes, like, so that we can, like, at least trust, you know, that you're gonna do the profitable thing. Right? Like, why would you Yeah. And the cool thing about, I think, commitments is we can, like, design a bunch of these things, a bunch of these commitment mechanisms to create what the next level thing, which I think is, like, entanglement protocols.\n\nSo how do organizations of organizations, like, happen? Like, how do we get, like, a bunch of, like, separate teams or separate DAOs or separate companies to, like, come together and form, like, higher level governance entities, right? Mhmm. Like, entangle like, commitments, entanglement protocols allow this to happen in a very bottoms up kind of fashion. Right?\n\nMhmm. It's like the opposite of, like, the network state where there's, like, some top down sovereign that's enforcing something. Right? Like, commitments and entanglement protocols allow a bunch of different organizations all to come together and then opt into higher order things. Mhmm.\n\nThat's very different. Right, right. Coming from, like, the power is coming up from the bottoms up in terms of what individuals and individual organizations are opting into as, like, as opposed to, like yeah. I don't know. I've just been rambling for a while, but if you're interested in commitments and entanglement protocols and you wanna work on such things.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. I think what what is interesting about this as well, just maybe for interested in context for the for the listeners, is that this is actually really common in places like the world of cooperatives. Like cooperatives, there I can't remember which country it was or if there was something in some sort of, like, bylaws, but there is generally a commitment between cooperatives to handle legal disputes between each other that you don't go to like whatever nation state legal system in order to deal with your issues because they understand that their issues are not like cared for by the states, that the the legal system is already designed by corporations and that the legal system is therefore legally designed in the interest of corporations. So there's no there's like not too good of a reason to do it when you can settle it yourselves. So there are these types of kind of like private law, like courts that also private and there is like a definitely a more kind of like I think as things get a little bit mushy where you can do it for ends of deregulation and financialization of these special economic zones but you can also do it in the case of like a rejection of the status quo being one that is already dominated by corporate interests so why would you go into that?\n\nSo I think, you know, the blockchain offers us like this interesting space for like it although it seems on the surface like just financial commitments here we're saying that like no this can't actually expand beyond just the financial and we can do this at a level that is like kind of mutual and we can increase the complexity like from the inside out rather than from like you know everyone pray to Balaji for, you know, entering into the whatever fucking network state thing\n\nSpeaker 0: that\n\nSpeaker 1: he's on to in that moment. Yeah.\n\nSpeaker 0: No. We can use this to actually make really, really crazy collaboration primitives that, like, will just, like, I think, cuck, you know, more selfish competitively minded, monsters.\n\nSpeaker 1: And to build the commons.\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah. I mean, it's like I think that the commons and collaboration are actually, like, very, very effective strategies, and, I think that they'll dominate.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.\n\nSpeaker 0: I I really do. I think but but I do think we need, like, the right primitives that enable for, like, bottoms up organization that, like, respects people's, like, sovereignty and stuff like that because, like, and also just, like, allow these new primitives to really emerge. I think that, it's surprising to me that, like, even though DeFi has, like, had a lot of time to come up with, like, basically most financial primitives, There's one primitive that is actually very common in the real world that, like, I've not seen DeFi really tackle, though you could argue restaking is also kind of, like, a version of this primitive, and that's, like, a lien. Mhmm. Like, the concept of lien, right, which is, like, that, like, if you have your money in a bank, there can be, like, a lien on your account.\n\nRight? Like, it's, like, such a simple mechanism, but it underlies everything from mortgage contracts, which, you know, like, are are basically, like, loans for people. Right? Like, you know, as long as people are making payments on their house on time, they own their house. There's nothing the bank can do.\n\nBut if they break the contract, the the bank can get a lien on their house. Right? And, you know, but you I think it's important to think about, like, how these systems can also be used for, like, the commons as well. Because what it really is, it's about, like, how do you enforce the commons? How do you enforce Right.\n\nRules without, again, having, like, a top down, like Yeah. Yeah. You know, kind of a sovereign. Right? And you need that sort of, like, bottoms up commitment and of, like, people sort of, like, opting into additional conditions and rules Yeah.\n\nIn exchange for benefits, mind you. Right? Like, we, like, I think that what's really great about them is it gives us this very rich mix of both the carrot, obviously, which everyone's focused on, but it also gives us, like, the stick, right? Which allows us to build, like, you know, more one of the crazy things to me is, like, someone who spent a lot of time in Dows is, like, how many, like, disputes, like, basically still wind up in lawsuits which\n\nSpeaker 1: Alright.\n\nSpeaker 0: Which to me is, like, always a challenge that the tooling is not good enough yet and I think that if more things, like, if we can, like, grow this vocabulary of commitments, if we can think about new types of commitment mechanisms for different types of things that, like, I do hope we'll get to a world where that doesn't happen anymore. But Mhmm. That, in fact, like, most things resolve themselves off chain and very few things resolve like resolve themselves on chain and very few things like are resolved in the court cases. I don't think you'll ever completely get rid of that but you know.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, at least form the basis. I mean I I can imagine you make a situation where the opportunity costs of, you know, going to court are simply much higher than, once after the fact you have made a commitment that is on chain, that you just simply don't want to go through the hassle of going through the nation state court if you don't.\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah. Also just like time. It's like better UX. Right? Like, would you rather wait, like, three years to get your money or would you rather get your money once the dispute is instantly resolved?\n\nLike\n\nSpeaker 1: Right. Right. I I\n\nSpeaker 0: this is much better UX like I I feel like you know,\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. It's tackling I think just back to the comments part of, yeah being a part of a commons, being part of, like, community, like, ought to have commitment to it. Like, you can't I mean, to to, you know, get out of this, like, kind of, freeloader problem in these types of communities, Conflict is difficult, and you can make systems where it's difficult to predict all the conflicts that are going to arise, but to at least have some sort of basis in which you are committed to some type of action and some form of solidarity which requires a commitment, and that we don't need a fucking we don't need a nation state to do it, legal system. Maybe we don't need a blockchain to do it, but sometimes maybe we do. Sometimes it would be nice.\n\nSpeaker 0: I think you actually do need a a blockchain. Well, I think I won't wouldn't say you always need it, but it actually is, like, probably, like, the best thing we have for, like, a multinational, like, attempt at doing this, like Yeah. In a very, like, secure and trusted way. Yeah.\n\nSpeaker 1: It can't be shut down. So it's, like, particular context, which may become more and more frequent, I think, with just the way things are going and just also having that possibility to do it, can make it more frequent.\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah. So let's, let's get Brad Shane, like, all in some commitments and, you know, that's, you know, also, you know, if you can, like, get restaking, like, you you know, or commitments. Right? Getting We're doing that. Getting that reward, put direct that make a commitment to direct that reward towards the commons.\n\nRight?\n\nSpeaker 1: And I\n\nSpeaker 0: think that this is really great is because, you know, there's no mechanism by which we can have, like, a bunch of different blockchains, for example. Let's say there's, like, some new thing that we'd all benefit from, right? Like, how do we commit that we're all going to, like, provide some, like, some certain amount of funds to, like, help develop that thing, right?\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Interacting with the bread chain is a commitment, and we are committed to you, comrades. Yeah.\n\nSpeaker 0: It's, get your bread.\n\nSpeaker 1: Bake that bread. Yeah. Alright. Thanks, Jake, so much for enlightening us with with this work.\n\nSpeaker 0: I don't know if it was enlightening. I hope it was not Definitely. Everything.\n\nSpeaker 1: I think it was a good introduction for people.\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah? Yeah. Appreciate it. Next time we'll do it with, like, UI and, like, presentation because it's much easier to have pictures.\n\nSpeaker 1: Well, send me the pictures. I'll put them on top. That's amazing. Alright.", "paragraphs": [ { "sentences": [ { "text": "They're like right now we're just like really focused on like letting people build like extensions to Ethereum and like full stack decentralized applications.", "start": 0.08, "end": 9.38 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 10.0, "end": 10.24 }, { "text": "Like so like thinking like a lot more than smart contracts and there's like this new thing that is called actively validated services or restaking.", "start": 10.24, "end": 18.775 }, { "text": "You might have heard of things like I can layer or symbiotic or like Babylon chain and like the Bitcoin world.", "start": 18.875, "end": 25.974998 }, { "text": "And they're all doing this thing called restaking which is actually I think a really interesting thing that a lot more people should should know about.", "start": 26.24, "end": 33.28 } ], "start": 0.08, "end": 33.28, "num_words": 97.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Commitments, I like the phrase commitments better than restaking because it just makes more sense to normal people.", "start": 33.28, "end": 38.4 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 38.4, "end": 38.64 }, { "text": "Even though the mechanism might be the same like you but like the language about how we describe it, like, you know, I think really does matter in terms of, like, normal people being able to grok this, like And so, like, what commitments offer and and, like, smart contracts and and and blockchains, you can think of smart contracts and blockchains as like commitment machines, like the commit to a certain set of rules.", "start": 38.64, "end": 60.22 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 60.22, "end": 60.54 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 60.54, "end": 60.940002 } ], "start": 33.28, "end": 60.940002, "num_words": 96.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "No.", "start": 60.940002, "end": 61.100002 }, { "text": "We can use this to actually make really really crazy collaboration primitives that, like, will just, like, I think cuck being more selfish and additively minded, monsters", "start": 61.100002, "end": 71.705 } ], "start": 60.940002, "end": 71.705, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "and to build the commons.", "start": 71.705, "end": 73.625 } ], "start": 71.705, "end": 73.625, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I think you actually do need a a blockchain.", "start": 73.625, "end": 76.125 }, { "text": "Well, I think I won't wouldn't say you always need it, but it actually is like probably like the best thing we have for, like, a multinational, like, attempt at doing this, like Yeah.", "start": 76.345, "end": 85.70999 }, { "text": "In a very, like, secure and trusted way.", "start": 85.78999, "end": 87.63 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 87.63, "end": 87.78999 }, { "text": "It can't be shut down.", "start": 87.78999, "end": 88.93 } ], "start": 73.625, "end": 88.93, "num_words": 57.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Hey, guys.", "start": 89.63, "end": 90.27 }, { "text": "What you're about", "start": 90.27, "end": 90.909996 } ], "start": 89.63, "end": 90.909996, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "to watch is one of the many interviews I took during my time in Thailand for Defcon twenty twenty four.", "start": 90.909996, "end": 96.21 }, { "text": "I was in the country for a total of over a month and got the opportunity to meet a bunch of really cool people and interview them in person.", "start": 96.415, "end": 103.395 }, { "text": "DevCon itself was an incredible and interesting experience, and you can find my full review of it on my Patreon.", "start": 103.774994, "end": 109.155 }, { "text": "So if you like the content I've been making and would like me to continue going to these kinds of events and improving, then I hope you'll become a patron starting at just $3 per month for access to loads of bonus content and Blockchain Socialist merch at patreon.com/theblockchainsocialist.", "start": 109.62, "end": 126.365005 }, { "text": "I am here in Chiang Mai, Thailand where I'm doing short twenty minute videos with, a lot of people that are around in Chiang Mai.", "start": 128.745, "end": 137.80501 } ], "start": 90.909996, "end": 137.80501, "num_words": 143.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "This is kind of, like, a bit before DevCon, and throughout DevCon, I'll be doing a similar thing.", "start": 138.41, "end": 142.99 }, { "text": "And, for this first interview, I am going to be speaking to Jay Cardinal, who is the, founder of DAO DAO and, Lair.", "start": 143.61, "end": 158.195 }, { "text": "This is", "start": 158.735, "end": 159.05501 } ], "start": 138.41, "end": 159.05501, "num_words": 43.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "your latest project.", "start": 159.05501, "end": 159.935 }, { "text": "It's called Lair.", "start": 159.935, "end": 160.995 }, { "text": "It's Lair is a verb.", "start": 161.05501, "end": 162.91501 }, { "text": "You know?", "start": 163.05501, "end": 163.535 }, { "text": "It's the act of making layers.", "start": 163.535, "end": 164.94 } ], "start": 159.05501, "end": 164.94, "num_words": 19.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Oh, you should maybe.", "start": 164.94, "end": 165.84 }, { "text": "If you can clip clip this onto your, cool.", "start": 166.3, "end": 168.8 }, { "text": "I'm using it.", "start": 169.42, "end": 169.98 }, { "text": "It's not too much.", "start": 169.98, "end": 170.88 } ], "start": 164.94, "end": 170.88, "num_words": 20.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 172.54001, "end": 173.04001 }, { "text": "It's called layer.", "start": 175.34, "end": 176.40001 }, { "text": "We're we're kind of it's kind of a joke because there's, like, so many things called Lair and, you know, trying to do, like, interesting things with, like, the most boring names possible.", "start": 179.145, "end": 186.765 }, { "text": "Okay.", "start": 187.065, "end": 187.565 }, { "text": "So, yeah.", "start": 187.945, "end": 190.39 } ], "start": 172.54001, "end": 190.39, "num_words": 40.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "There's many layers to the layer project.", "start": 190.39, "end": 192.33 }, { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 192.47, "end": 192.97 }, { "text": "They're like, right now, we're just, like, really focused on, like, letting people build, like, extensions to Ethereum and, like, full stack decentralized applications.", "start": 193.99, "end": 203.37001 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 204.045, "end": 204.285 }, { "text": "Like so, like, thinking, like, a lot more than smart contracts.", "start": 204.285, "end": 207.185 } ], "start": 190.39, "end": 207.185, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know?", "start": 207.72499, "end": 208.305 }, { "text": "And there's, like, this new thing that is called actively validated services or restaking.", "start": 209.005, "end": 214.785 }, { "text": "You might have heard of things like IBN layer or symbiotic or, like, Babylon chain and, like, the Bitcoin world.", "start": 215.405, "end": 222.05 }, { "text": "And they're all doing this thing called restaking, which is actually, I think, a really interesting thing that a lot more people should should know about because, not only can you use this, like, let's just call it a mechanism.", "start": 222.27, "end": 234.16501 }, { "text": "Now we can use this mechanism for, like, running secure off chain services, like, off chain compute.", "start": 234.16501, "end": 238.985 } ], "start": 207.72499, "end": 238.985, "num_words": 93.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Like, if you wanted to have your own decentralized oracle, if you wanted to have your own decentralized AI agent or a decentralized proven marketplaces, or all the millions of different types of, like, decentralized off chain pro like, pro like, programs that people can run.", "start": 239.04501, "end": 254.41 }, { "text": "You know, but then, like, these this this restaking mechanism, which I think we should just rebrand to commitments, is actually really, really interesting for things like governance and network nations and, like, DeFi, and, yeah, so.", "start": 256.55002, "end": 274.595 } ], "start": 239.04501, "end": 274.595, "num_words": 83.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sure.", "start": 275.06, "end": 275.3 }, { "text": "So, like, maybe to just to, like, help the audience kind of, situate themselves on kind of, like, the the very particular niche of the crypto world that we're talking about, Eigenlayer is basically one of, like, a company that has figured out how to take your stake on Ethereum, so Ethereum is on proof of stake, you put in 32 ETH, to take that stake and rather than just validating the Ethereum blockchain, you can use it to validate other types of decentralized services or computational services that may require some sort of decentralized network of computers in the same way as Ethereum.", "start": 275.3, "end": 312.4 }, { "text": "So basically you can you can say I am not only going to stake on Ethereum but I'm also going to do these other decentralized services and I'm putting my stake of Ethereum on the line to to do that.", "start": 312.69998, "end": 325.345 }, { "text": "I'm committing to the computation of these particular services that I am voluntarily doing with my computer.", "start": 325.345, "end": 335.07 } ], "start": 275.06, "end": 335.07, "num_words": 162.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wow.", "start": 335.37003, "end": 335.61002 }, { "text": "That was, like, a better description than what I gave.", "start": 335.61002, "end": 338.43002 } ], "start": 335.37003, "end": 338.43002, "num_words": 11.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Cool.", "start": 341.45, "end": 341.95 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 342.01, "end": 342.51 }, { "text": "So Lair is one of these kind of, like, ABS projects that is specifically trying to", "start": 343.13, "end": 348.715 } ], "start": 341.45, "end": 348.715, "num_words": 18.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We're we're trying to make a stack that allows you to make layers and some of these layers are ABS's, some might be things like roll ups or chains.", "start": 349.415, "end": 356.795 }, { "text": "We just wanna make tools for you to make more of these things.", "start": 358.45502, "end": 360.96 } ], "start": 349.415, "end": 360.96, "num_words": 42.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right.", "start": 361.52, "end": 362.0 }, { "text": "Right.", "start": 362.0, "end": 362.5 }, { "text": "And so I think the the particular kind of thing that we want to zoom in on with the technology that Lair is working on is specifically commitments and using what is I mean just to give maybe slightly more context like I at least I don't know how you've seen it but what I've seen is the eigenlayer stuff and the kind of adding on of these services on top of Ethereum stake has kind of become or what I've seen dominate a lot is like a a mindset of financialization or a mindset of like leveraging your stake for more rewards by for others like through other services.", "start": 362.72, "end": 403.58 } ], "start": 361.52, "end": 403.58, "num_words": 112.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 403.96, "end": 404.46 } ], "start": 403.96, "end": 404.46, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And that can be seen in that framework but I think what we want to talk about a little bit more is how instead we can think about it in a different framework rather than like using it as a purely incentive mechanisms for more money but like committing to, like, a broad range of different types of agreements.", "start": 406.36, "end": 425.61 } ], "start": 406.36, "end": 425.61, "num_words": 59.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 426.94998, "end": 427.11 }, { "text": "Totally.", "start": 427.11, "end": 427.61 }, { "text": "And, like so, yeah.", "start": 429.50998, "end": 431.66998 }, { "text": "Like, commitments I like the phrase commitments better than restaking because it just makes more sense to normal people.", "start": 431.66998, "end": 437.025 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 437.025, "end": 437.185 } ], "start": 426.94998, "end": 437.185, "num_words": 26.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Even though the mechanism might be the same, like, you but, like, the language about how we describe it, like, you know, I think really does matter in terms of, like, normal people being able to this, like, concept because, like, you are committing to something.", "start": 437.185, "end": 450.8 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 450.8, "end": 451.03998 }, { "text": "You are committing to lock your tokens to pick a validator, and you're gonna get some rewards for that.", "start": 451.03998, "end": 458.47998 }, { "text": "You're committing to get those rewards, but you're also committing to pay a potential penalty if the validator that you picked, misbehaved, right?", "start": 458.47998, "end": 465.075 }, { "text": "And that's like a staking commitment, right?", "start": 465.075, "end": 467.075 } ], "start": 437.185, "end": 467.075, "num_words": 96.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "For like a proof of stake blockchain at a high level, right?", "start": 467.075, "end": 469.495 }, { "text": "We can think about other types of commitments too, right?", "start": 470.11502, "end": 472.535 }, { "text": "For example, you're like an actively validated service is an off chain service, and we tend to think of that as like a program, like you're committing to run a certain program in a certain way.", "start": 473.075, "end": 483.14 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 483.14, "end": 483.64 }, { "text": "But, you know, that could also work for, like, off chain kind of governance processes as well.", "start": 486.26, "end": 490.02 } ], "start": 467.075, "end": 490.02, "num_words": 76.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 490.02, "end": 490.34 }, { "text": "These things are all kind of, like, asynchronous in Mhmm.", "start": 490.34, "end": 494.52536 }, { "text": "In some ways.", "start": 494.82214, "end": 495.71252 }, { "text": "And so, like, you know, like, a classic problem that a lot of people have is, like, let's say you have two organizations.", "start": 496.0093, "end": 502.83536 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 502.83536, "end": 503.13214 } ], "start": 490.02, "end": 503.13214, "num_words": 38.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And to make matters complicated, we're in two different countries.", "start": 503.13214, "end": 506.1 }, { "text": "And to make matters even more complicated, they're two third world countries, right?", "start": 506.18, "end": 510.18 }, { "text": "With, maybe they don't have a good governance system of, or like rule of law, right?", "start": 510.18, "end": 514.36 }, { "text": "And we want to work together and collaborate together, right?", "start": 514.58, "end": 517.64 }, { "text": "So how do we do that in the modern world right now?", "start": 517.94, "end": 520.935 } ], "start": 503.13214, "end": 520.935, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Well, it's a huge pain in the ass.", "start": 520.935, "end": 522.535 }, { "text": "So basically, well, maybe we don't trust the government of your country, and maybe you don't trust the government of my country, like, you know, so then we have to find some third party country, like Singapore, like, you know, Panama, or like there's many, many countries that, like, kind of fulfill these, like, third party Mhmm.", "start": 522.535, "end": 539.8 }, { "text": "Kind of roles.", "start": 539.83997, "end": 540.48 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 540.48, "end": 540.64 }, { "text": "And then we we we we make our agreement and we designate that as the court, like the country in which, like, our agreement will be resolved if there's a dispute between us.", "start": 540.64, "end": 551.485 } ], "start": 520.935, "end": 551.485, "num_words": 102.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 551.485, "end": 551.985 }, { "text": "And let's say there is a dispute between us, what do we have to do?", "start": 552.045, "end": 554.605 }, { "text": "Well, now we've got to spend a lot of money on international lawyers, and Not everybody can obviously afford to pay like massive rates of international lawyers right so you know if this if this suit is not worth spending like hundreds of thousands of dollars on Well, we are out of luck already but if it let's say it is you know you think it's worth it to like really fight this out right you have to pay those lawyers you fight it out in like Singapore or whatever your third party court was and you win well now you have to like collect Right?", "start": 554.605, "end": 588.06 }, { "text": "So just because you won in court doesn't mean you, like, automatically get the money.", "start": 588.06, "end": 591.5 }, { "text": "Now you have to go through your, like, the process of trying to, like, collect from me, and my government in my country might not be, like, super helpful in helping you do that.", "start": 591.5, "end": 601.095 } ], "start": 551.485, "end": 601.095, "num_words": 171.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 601.095, "end": 601.595 }, { "text": "Right.", "start": 602.055, "end": 602.375 } ], "start": 601.095, "end": 602.375, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And so it's just, like, even in this, like, international law context, like, first of all, we can see, like, a lot of the legacy of, like, colonialism in that we have an international justice system, but it only works for some people.", "start": 603.81494, "end": 615.115 }, { "text": "And even then, it doesn't work that well even for those people.", "start": 615.45, "end": 618.57 }, { "text": "So, like, even if you're, like, running, like, some international organization, like, you're dealing with a very inefficient and very expensive system that doesn't, like, help your bottom line.", "start": 618.57, "end": 629.37 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 629.37, "end": 629.87 }, { "text": "And so, like, what commitments offer and, like, smart contracts and and and blockchains, you can think of smart contracts and blockchains as, like, commitment machines, like, they commit to a certain set of rules.", "start": 631.65497, "end": 642.69495 } ], "start": 603.81494, "end": 642.69495, "num_words": 120.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 642.69495, "end": 643.175 }, { "text": "And with smart contract chains, we can extend the set of rules by which they, like, make commitments.", "start": 643.175, "end": 648.42004 }, { "text": "And so we could let's say we have our two orgs again, and we wanted to, collaborate or, like, come to some agreement, right?", "start": 649.52, "end": 656.5 }, { "text": "One of the things we could do is because we're already restaking our Ethereum, right?", "start": 656.56, "end": 661.06 }, { "text": "We have another commitment contract where we, like, opt in to, like, you know, with a certain amount of collateral.", "start": 661.33496, "end": 667.975 } ], "start": 642.69495, "end": 667.975, "num_words": 78.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Maybe we don't trust each other.", "start": 667.975, "end": 669.175 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 669.175, "end": 669.675 }, { "text": "We opt in with a certain amount of collateral to have that backing the agreement.", "start": 670.935, "end": 674.375 }, { "text": "And then as a third party, we might specify a Claro's court or some DAO or maybe even, like, bread chain or whatever.", "start": 674.375, "end": 681.81 }, { "text": "Like, we specify a third party that, like, gets to decide what the dispute is.", "start": 681.81, "end": 686.13 } ], "start": 667.975, "end": 686.13, "num_words": 60.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 686.13, "end": 686.37 }, { "text": "Or we specify in the smart contract the process by which, you know, maybe it's just submitting a z k proof of some evidence.", "start": 686.37, "end": 693.025 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 693.16504, "end": 693.485 }, { "text": "Like Mhmm.", "start": 693.485, "end": 694.705 }, { "text": "Anyway, once that's, like, you know, we, like, basically, like, have this, like, restaking commitment that we both are, like, making a commitment towards.", "start": 695.485, "end": 704.64 } ], "start": 686.13, "end": 704.64, "num_words": 52.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 704.94, "end": 705.26 }, { "text": "It's just like a two party thing.", "start": 705.26, "end": 706.77997 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 706.77997, "end": 707.27997 }, { "text": "Now that we have that, let's say this dispute happens again.", "start": 709.82, "end": 712.95996 }, { "text": "We go to that DAO.", "start": 714.54, "end": 715.5 } ], "start": 704.94, "end": 715.5, "num_words": 25.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 715.5, "end": 715.74 }, { "text": "They provide their judgment.", "start": 715.74, "end": 716.77997 }, { "text": "They they decide, and then you instantly get the money.", "start": 716.77997, "end": 719.1 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 719.1, "end": 719.595 }, { "text": "And so we're, like, actually doing a better job than, like, an international justice system.", "start": 719.83496, "end": 724.235 } ], "start": 715.5, "end": 724.235, "num_words": 31.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 724.235, "end": 724.475 }, { "text": "Are we creating at least the more efficient one, which hopefully even the rich people that don't listen to blockchain socialists should understand, but we're also making one that's, like, much more cost effective for, like, you know, like, a lot more people to actually use and get some use and guarantees out of it, right?", "start": 724.475, "end": 739.02 }, { "text": "So, like, even if you don't, like, live in, a very desirable country or you don't have access to, like, international lawyers or enough funds to pay for them, you can still use blockchain to create, like, enforce enforceable agreements that, like, help you, like, you know, go about and act in the world, like, you know, doing things like raise money.", "start": 739.08, "end": 759.20496 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 759.20496, "end": 759.365 }, { "text": "Like, raising money is like a type of commitment.", "start": 759.365, "end": 761.25 } ], "start": 724.235, "end": 761.25, "num_words": 129.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Like, you know, there's usually legal contracts that come with this.", "start": 761.25, "end": 763.65 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 763.65, "end": 764.13 }, { "text": "And so commitments is, like, leveraging this sort of, like, lock up mechanism of Aggelayer, like like, at a high level.", "start": 764.13, "end": 770.45 }, { "text": "And, like, there's a lot of better documentation you can read if you really wanna learn this stuff.", "start": 770.45, "end": 774.45 }, { "text": "It's, like, we're locking in tokens in a vault, right?", "start": 774.45, "end": 777.13495 } ], "start": 761.25, "end": 777.13495, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We can think of this vault as a standard, right?", "start": 777.13495, "end": 779.555 }, { "text": "And the goal of this vault is to enforce the things that we opt into, you know?", "start": 779.615, "end": 784.355 }, { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 784.415, "end": 784.735 }, { "text": "To enforce our commitments, right?", "start": 785.45496, "end": 786.99 }, { "text": "So if we opt into taking on a certain amount of risk, right?", "start": 787.23, "end": 790.52997 } ], "start": 777.13495, "end": 790.52997, "num_words": 46.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know, one great example for risk, commitments are great for risk sharing, and I think that that that allows us to build things like potentially, like, insurance protocols and other types of things.", "start": 791.63, "end": 800.19 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 800.19, "end": 800.58997 }, { "text": "Like, imagine we wanna host a huge party as Like a group of like breadchain and like doubt out and like a bunch of like groups like decided they want to like throw like a really cool like all the car people we get all the cool people and What like there's always going to be risk for like throwing a party right like what happens if someone gets injured or something gets really broken and you know?", "start": 800.58997, "end": 822.16 }, { "text": "Where the cops come and then like some people get thrown in jail and like we have to get them out or we have to bribe the cops You know or like whatever right So what the group could do is they could actually all just make a commitment for this event.", "start": 822.69995, "end": 835.075 }, { "text": "In the event that there is some triggering thing as defined by these groups of people, some bad thing happens, we'll have our like, collateral as backing for, like, to counteract that bad bad bad bad, right?", "start": 835.295, "end": 848.86 } ], "start": 791.63, "end": 848.86, "num_words": 202.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Like, in essence, like, commitments, I think, are, like, it's a good framework that I really want people to think about, like, the actual smart contract mechanisms behind, because it's like, what we're doing is, like, we're creating, like, mutualization agreements.", "start": 849.0, "end": 861.415 }, { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 861.415, "end": 861.615 }, { "text": "Like like agreements that go both way.", "start": 863.615, "end": 866.575 }, { "text": "In fact, this is I think one of the things that I'm kind of missing in the restaking world these days is like oftentimes like the people building restaking systems, it's all about them providing economic security.", "start": 866.575, "end": 875.76 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 875.76, "end": 876.24005 } ], "start": 849.0, "end": 876.24005, "num_words": 87.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 876.24005, "end": 876.64 }, { "text": "And, you know, at least for, like, us, we've been working on this thing called mesh security", "start": 876.96, "end": 881.2 } ], "start": 876.24005, "end": 881.2, "num_words": 18.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 881.68005, "end": 881.84 } ], "start": 881.68005, "end": 881.84, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "For a really long time.", "start": 881.92004, "end": 883.04004 }, { "text": "And, like, commitments is sort of just an evolution of that, and one of the important principles is that they're bidirectional.", "start": 883.04004, "end": 888.5 }, { "text": "We can make a bidirectional commitment.", "start": 888.72003, "end": 890.48004 }, { "text": "So, I can make a commitment to you, you can make a commitment to me.", "start": 890.48004, "end": 893.945 }, { "text": "That might be over things of, like, how we share rewards, like, potential revenue or potential things that may come.", "start": 893.945, "end": 899.385 } ], "start": 881.92004, "end": 899.385, "num_words": 67.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 899.385, "end": 899.885 }, { "text": "How we want to share risk, how we want to maybe have collateral, you know, like, if we don't fully each other, we want collateral stakes, like, so that we can, like, at least trust, you know, that you're gonna do the profitable thing.", "start": 900.265, "end": 913.20996 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 913.20996, "end": 913.37 }, { "text": "Like, why would you Yeah.", "start": 913.37, "end": 914.35 }, { "text": "And the cool thing about, I think, commitments is we can, like, design a bunch of these things, a bunch of these commitment mechanisms to create what the next level thing, which I think is, like, entanglement protocols.", "start": 915.69, "end": 926.935 } ], "start": 899.385, "end": 926.935, "num_words": 89.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So how do organizations of organizations, like, happen?", "start": 927.15497, "end": 930.355 }, { "text": "Like, how do we get, like, a bunch of, like, separate teams or separate DAOs or separate companies to, like, come together and form, like, higher level governance entities, right?", "start": 930.355, "end": 942.95 }, { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 942.95, "end": 943.43 }, { "text": "Like, entangle like, commitments, entanglement protocols allow this to happen in a very bottoms up kind of fashion.", "start": 944.07, "end": 950.175 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 950.175, "end": 950.65497 } ], "start": 927.15497, "end": 950.65497, "num_words": 58.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 950.65497, "end": 950.89496 }, { "text": "It's like the opposite of, like, the network state where there's, like, some top down sovereign that's enforcing something.", "start": 950.89496, "end": 955.69495 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 955.69495, "end": 956.19495 }, { "text": "Like, commitments and entanglement protocols allow a bunch of different organizations all to come together and then opt into higher order things.", "start": 956.25494, "end": 964.77 }, { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 965.15, "end": 965.31 } ], "start": 950.65497, "end": 965.31, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "That's very different.", "start": 965.31, "end": 966.11 }, { "text": "Right, right.", "start": 966.11, "end": 966.67 }, { "text": "Coming from, like, the power is coming up from the bottoms up in terms of what individuals and individual organizations are opting into as, like, as opposed to, like yeah.", "start": 966.67, "end": 977.745 }, { "text": "I don't know.", "start": 977.745, "end": 978.145 }, { "text": "I've just been rambling for a while, but if you're interested in commitments and entanglement protocols and you wanna work on such things.", "start": 978.145, "end": 984.48505 } ], "start": 965.31, "end": 984.48505, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 985.185, "end": 985.505 }, { "text": "I think what what is interesting about this as well, just maybe for interested in context for the for the listeners, is that this is actually really common in places like the world of cooperatives.", "start": 985.505, "end": 995.49 }, { "text": "Like cooperatives, there I can't remember which country it was or if there was something in some sort of, like, bylaws, but there is generally a commitment between cooperatives to handle legal disputes between each other that you don't go to like whatever nation state legal system in order to deal with your issues because they understand that their issues are not like cared for by the states, that the the legal system is already designed by corporations and that the legal system is therefore legally designed in the interest of corporations.", "start": 995.94995, "end": 1031.095 }, { "text": "So there's no there's like not too good of a reason to do it when you can settle it yourselves.", "start": 1031.095, "end": 1036.5549 }, { "text": "So there are these types of kind of like private law, like courts that also private and there is like a definitely a more kind of like I think as things get a little bit mushy where you can do it for ends of deregulation and financialization of these special economic zones but you can also do it in the case of like a rejection of the status quo being one that is already dominated by corporate interests so why would you go into that?", "start": 1037.015, "end": 1069.255 } ], "start": 985.185, "end": 1069.255, "num_words": 233.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So I think, you know, the blockchain offers us like this interesting space for like it although it seems on the surface like just financial commitments here we're saying that like no this can't actually expand beyond just the financial and we can do this at a level that is like kind of mutual and we can increase the complexity like from the inside out rather than from like you know everyone pray to Balaji for, you know, entering into the whatever fucking network state thing", "start": 1069.255, "end": 1103.63 } ], "start": 1069.255, "end": 1103.63, "num_words": 86.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "that", "start": 1103.63, "end": 1103.79 } ], "start": 1103.63, "end": 1103.79, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "he's on to in that moment.", "start": 1103.79, "end": 1104.83 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1104.83, "end": 1104.99 } ], "start": 1103.79, "end": 1104.99, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "No.", "start": 1104.99, "end": 1105.15 }, { "text": "We can use this to actually make really, really crazy collaboration primitives that, like, will just, like, I think, cuck, you know, more selfish competitively minded, monsters.", "start": 1105.15, "end": 1115.6849 } ], "start": 1104.99, "end": 1115.6849, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And to build the commons.", "start": 1115.6849, "end": 1117.625 } ], "start": 1115.6849, "end": 1117.625, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1118.165, "end": 1118.285 }, { "text": "I mean, it's like I think that the commons and collaboration are actually, like, very, very effective strategies, and, I think that they'll dominate.", "start": 1118.285, "end": 1129.25 } ], "start": 1118.165, "end": 1129.25, "num_words": 25.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1129.63, "end": 1129.87 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1129.87, "end": 1130.27 } ], "start": 1129.63, "end": 1130.27, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I I really do.", "start": 1130.27, "end": 1130.9099 }, { "text": "I think but but I do think we need, like, the right primitives that enable for, like, bottoms up organization that, like, respects people's, like, sovereignty and stuff like that because, like, and also just, like, allow these new primitives to really emerge.", "start": 1130.9099, "end": 1145.175 }, { "text": "I think that, it's surprising to me that, like, even though DeFi has, like, had a lot of time to come up with, like, basically most financial primitives, There's one primitive that is actually very common in the real world that, like, I've not seen DeFi really tackle, though you could argue restaking is also kind of, like, a version of this primitive, and that's, like, a lien.", "start": 1145.175, "end": 1166.9199 }, { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 1167.2999, "end": 1167.46 }, { "text": "Like, the concept of lien, right, which is, like, that, like, if you have your money in a bank, there can be, like, a lien on your account.", "start": 1167.46, "end": 1173.765 } ], "start": 1130.27, "end": 1173.765, "num_words": 144.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 1173.765, "end": 1174.005 }, { "text": "Like, it's, like, such a simple mechanism, but it underlies everything from mortgage contracts, which, you know, like, are are basically, like, loans for people.", "start": 1174.005, "end": 1184.64 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1184.64, "end": 1184.88 }, { "text": "Like, you know, as long as people are making payments on their house on time, they own their house.", "start": 1184.88, "end": 1188.72 }, { "text": "There's nothing the bank can do.", "start": 1188.72, "end": 1189.76 } ], "start": 1173.765, "end": 1189.76, "num_words": 52.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "But if they break the contract, the the bank can get a lien on their house.", "start": 1189.76, "end": 1194.24 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1194.24, "end": 1194.5599 }, { "text": "And, you know, but you I think it's important to think about, like, how these systems can also be used for, like, the commons as well.", "start": 1194.5599, "end": 1202.255 }, { "text": "Because what it really is, it's about, like, how do you enforce the commons?", "start": 1202.255, "end": 1206.1951 }, { "text": "How do you enforce Right.", "start": 1206.495, "end": 1208.165 } ], "start": 1189.76, "end": 1208.165, "num_words": 62.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Rules without, again, having, like, a top down, like Yeah.", "start": 1208.415, "end": 1211.64 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1211.64, "end": 1211.72 }, { "text": "You know, kind of a sovereign.", "start": 1211.7999, "end": 1212.9199 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1212.9199, "end": 1213.16 }, { "text": "And you need that sort of, like, bottoms up commitment and of, like, people sort of, like, opting into additional conditions and rules Yeah.", "start": 1213.16, "end": 1220.0 } ], "start": 1208.415, "end": 1220.0, "num_words": 42.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "In exchange for benefits, mind you.", "start": 1220.28, "end": 1222.28 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1222.28, "end": 1222.52 }, { "text": "Like, we, like, I think that what's really great about them is it gives us this very rich mix of both the carrot, obviously, which everyone's focused on, but it also gives us, like, the stick, right?", "start": 1222.52, "end": 1234.025 }, { "text": "Which allows us to build, like, you know, more one of the crazy things to me is, like, someone who spent a lot of time in Dows is, like, how many, like, disputes, like, basically still wind up in lawsuits which", "start": 1234.025, "end": 1245.29 } ], "start": 1220.28, "end": 1245.29, "num_words": 85.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Alright.", "start": 1245.6901, "end": 1246.1901 } ], "start": 1245.6901, "end": 1246.1901, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Which to me is, like, always a challenge that the tooling is not good enough yet and I think that if more things, like, if we can, like, grow this vocabulary of commitments, if we can think about new types of commitment mechanisms for different types of things that, like, I do hope we'll get to a world where that doesn't happen anymore.", "start": 1246.3301, "end": 1261.015 }, { "text": "But Mhmm.", "start": 1261.015, "end": 1261.7351 }, { "text": "That, in fact, like, most things resolve themselves off chain and very few things resolve like resolve themselves on chain and very few things like are resolved in the court cases.", "start": 1261.8151, "end": 1271.16 }, { "text": "I don't think you'll ever completely get rid of that but you know.", "start": 1271.16, "end": 1273.9 } ], "start": 1246.3301, "end": 1273.9, "num_words": 109.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah, yeah, yeah, at least form the basis.", "start": 1273.96, "end": 1275.64 }, { "text": "I mean I I can imagine you make a situation where the opportunity costs of, you know, going to court are simply much higher than, once after the fact you have made a commitment that is on chain, that you just simply don't want to go through the hassle of going through the nation state court if you don't.", "start": 1275.64, "end": 1297.1901 } ], "start": 1273.96, "end": 1297.1901, "num_words": 67.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1298.05, "end": 1298.21 }, { "text": "Also just like time.", "start": 1298.21, "end": 1299.51 }, { "text": "It's like better UX.", "start": 1299.65, "end": 1300.61 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1300.61, "end": 1300.85 }, { "text": "Like, would you rather wait, like, three years to get your money or would you rather get your money once the dispute is instantly resolved?", "start": 1300.85, "end": 1307.99 } ], "start": 1298.05, "end": 1307.99, "num_words": 35.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Like", "start": 1308.1849, "end": 1308.265 } ], "start": 1308.1849, "end": 1308.265, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right.", "start": 1308.585, "end": 1309.085 }, { "text": "Right.", "start": 1309.3049, "end": 1309.625 }, { "text": "I I", "start": 1309.705, "end": 1310.025 } ], "start": 1308.585, "end": 1310.025, "num_words": 4.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "this is much better UX like I I feel like you know,", "start": 1310.345, "end": 1313.165 } ], "start": 1310.345, "end": 1313.165, "num_words": 12.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1315.785, "end": 1316.105 }, { "text": "It's tackling I think just back to the comments part of, yeah being a part of a commons, being part of, like, community, like, ought to have commitment to it.", "start": 1316.105, "end": 1325.7899 }, { "text": "Like, you can't I mean, to to, you know, get out of this, like, kind of, freeloader problem in these types of communities, Conflict is difficult, and you can make systems where it's difficult to predict all the conflicts that are going to arise, but to at least have some sort of basis in which you are committed to some type of action and some form of solidarity which requires a commitment, and that we don't need a fucking we don't need a nation state to do it, legal system.", "start": 1325.7899, "end": 1358.29 }, { "text": "Maybe we don't need a blockchain to do it, but sometimes maybe we do.", "start": 1358.91, "end": 1361.715 }, { "text": "Sometimes it would be nice.", "start": 1361.715, "end": 1362.835 } ], "start": 1315.785, "end": 1362.835, "num_words": 140.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I think you actually do need a a blockchain.", "start": 1362.835, "end": 1365.255 }, { "text": "Well, I think I won't wouldn't say you always need it, but it actually is, like, probably, like, the best thing we have for, like, a multinational, like, attempt at doing this, like Yeah.", "start": 1365.475, "end": 1374.84 }, { "text": "In a very, like, secure and trusted way.", "start": 1374.96, "end": 1376.7999 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1376.7999, "end": 1376.96 } ], "start": 1362.835, "end": 1376.96, "num_words": 52.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It can't be shut down.", "start": 1376.96, "end": 1377.76 }, { "text": "So it's, like, particular context, which may become more and more frequent, I think, with just the way things are going and just also having that possibility to do it, can make it more frequent.", "start": 1377.76, "end": 1388.675 } ], "start": 1376.96, "end": 1388.675, "num_words": 40.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1389.055, "end": 1389.295 }, { "text": "So let's, let's get Brad Shane, like, all in some commitments and, you know, that's, you know, also, you know, if you can, like, get restaking, like, you you know, or commitments.", "start": 1389.295, "end": 1399.42 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1399.42, "end": 1399.66 }, { "text": "Getting We're doing that.", "start": 1399.66, "end": 1400.3401 }, { "text": "Getting that reward, put direct that make a commitment to direct that reward towards the commons.", "start": 1400.38, "end": 1405.18 } ], "start": 1389.055, "end": 1405.18, "num_words": 54.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 1405.18, "end": 1405.42 } ], "start": 1405.18, "end": 1405.42, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And I", "start": 1405.42, "end": 1405.5801 } ], "start": 1405.42, "end": 1405.5801, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "think that this is really great is because, you know, there's no mechanism by which we can have, like, a bunch of different blockchains, for example.", "start": 1405.5801, "end": 1411.52 }, { "text": "Let's say there's, like, some new thing that we'd all benefit from, right?", "start": 1411.66, "end": 1415.5751 }, { "text": "Like, how do we commit that we're all going to, like, provide some, like, some certain amount of funds to, like, help develop that thing, right?", "start": 1415.5751, "end": 1423.255 } ], "start": 1405.5801, "end": 1423.255, "num_words": 65.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1423.255, "end": 1423.5751 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1423.5751, "end": 1424.0751 }, { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 1424.3351, "end": 1424.8351 }, { "text": "Interacting with the bread chain is a commitment, and we are committed to you, comrades.", "start": 1425.0951, "end": 1430.23 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1431.25, "end": 1431.65 } ], "start": 1423.255, "end": 1431.65, "num_words": 19.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's, get your bread.", "start": 1431.65, "end": 1433.67 } ], "start": 1431.65, "end": 1433.67, "num_words": 4.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Bake that bread.", "start": 1434.21, "end": 1435.01 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1435.01, "end": 1435.51 }, { "text": "Alright.", "start": 1436.05, "end": 1436.45 }, { "text": "Thanks, Jake, so much for enlightening us with with this work.", "start": 1436.45, "end": 1440.145 } ], "start": 1434.21, "end": 1440.145, "num_words": 16.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I don't know if it was enlightening.", "start": 1440.145, "end": 1441.345 }, { "text": "I hope it was not Definitely.", "start": 1441.345, "end": 1442.425 }, { "text": "Everything.", "start": 1442.625, "end": 1443.105 } ], "start": 1440.145, "end": 1443.105, "num_words": 14.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I think it was a good introduction for people.", "start": 1443.105, "end": 1444.965 } ], "start": 1443.105, "end": 1444.965, "num_words": 9.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah?", "start": 1445.185, "end": 1445.685 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1445.825, "end": 1446.325 }, { "text": "Appreciate it.", "start": 1446.545, "end": 1447.445 }, { "text": "Next time we'll do it with, like, UI and, like, presentation because it's much easier to have pictures.", "start": 1447.825, "end": 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Right? 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