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Das ehrenamtlich arbeitende Gremium besteht aus Expertinnen und Experten verschiedener Bereiche wie künstliche Intelligenz, Medizin oder Rechtsinformatik. Es sollte der Regierung und seinen Ministerien in Fragen der Digitalisierung beratend zur Seite stehen, Impulse setzen, aber auch kritische Fragen stellen. Über den Rat, seine Zusammensetzung und darüber, was man in 3 Jahren Arbeit zusammen erreicht hat, darüber wollen wir sprechen. Und ich freu mich dazu, 'n prominenten Gast begrüßen zu dürfen, Katrin Suder. Sie war nach Stationen in der Privatwirtschaft und im Bundesverteidigungsministerium die Vorsitzende des Digitalrats der letzten Bundesregierung. Sie ist uns jetzt per App zugeschaltet. Hallo und herzlich willkommen, liebe Frau Suda. Hallo, guten Morgen, ich freu mich. Liebe Frau Suda, lassen Sie uns erst mal über die Entstehungsgeschichte des Digitalrates sprechen und darüber, wie Sie zum Digitalrat gekommen sind. Wie war das damals? Ja, der Digitalrat ist verankert im Koalitionsvertrag. Das heißt, er hat ein ganz klares Mandat und Auftrag und es war dann in 2018, also die Regierung hatte sich ja Anfang des Jahres formiert. Ich bin mit Ende der letzten Regierung, also nach der Formierung der neuen, bin ich aus dem Amt ausgeschieden und dann hat mich die Bundeskanzlerin zu sich gerufen und hat mich gefragt, ob's ich mir denn vorstellen könnte, diesen Digitalrat zu leiten. Und dann hab ich 'n bisschen Nachdenkzeit erbeten und hab dann auch darüber diskutiert, wie müsste er aufgestellt sein? Was wären sozusagen die Randbedingungen, an die ich glaube, dass so ein Rat erfolgreich arbeiten kann? Und nachdem wir darüber diskutiert haben, dann auch mit dem Kanzleramt, Frau Christiansen und Herr Braun, ja, dann waren wir, wie man so schön sagt, handelseinig. Wir wollen ja gleich son bisschen Bilanz ziehen. Können Sie Ihre Rahmenbedingungen, die Sie damals gestellt haben, darlegen? Was war das? Was was wollten Sie? Was haben Sie verlangt? Naja, zum einen hab ich gesagt, die Zusammensetzung des Digitalrats oder jedem Gremiums ist eigentlich essenziell wichtig. Und ich hatte 2 Dinge gesagt, das eine ist, ich wollte echte Experten auf ihrem Feld. Also Leute, die die Themen nachweislich durchstoßen haben, die die Themen kennen, die es auch am konkreten Beispiel, sei es in Wissenschaft oder in der Wirtschaft gezeigt haben, dass sie ihre Themen beherrschen. Ich wollte auch definitiv keine großen Companys drin haben, keine Interessenvertretung, also wirkliche inhaltliche Expertise und Leute, die den Willen haben, diese Expertise im Sinne des Landes einzubringen. Das war die eine Handbedingung und die zweite war, ich wollte ein hochgradig diverses Team. Ich glaube an die Kraft von diversen Teams, dass die bessere Lösungen entwickeln, das ist nicht immer einfach. Da passiert auch mal Reibung und Streit, aber ich glaub daran und dieses Team ist ja dann auch sehr, sehr divers geworden. Über 20 Jahre Altersunterschied, wir haben wir haben Leute aus der Wissenschaft, aus der Wirtschaft, wir haben von Start-up, wir haben also wir haben 4 4 Frauen, 5 Männer. Wir haben aus 4 Nationen und lebend in 4 Nationen, also wirklich ein Bund gemischtes Gremium. Nun blicken wir noch mal kurz zurück auf das Jahr 2018. Da gab es einen Podcast der Bundeskanzlerin, wo sie zum Digitalrat gesprochen hat. Und da hören wir mal zusammen rein. Ich bin überzeugt, dass wir insgesamt in unserem Regierungshandeln nur mithalten können, wenn wir uns auch immer wieder Rat von außen suchen. Und genau das tun wir, indem wir Expertinnen und Experten aus den verschiedenen Bereichen bitten, uns im Digitalrat zur Seite zu stehen und uns zu beraten. Dabei geht es darum, dass das Menschen sind, die unterschiedliche Erfahrungen haben in dem gesamten Bereich der Digitalisierung und die uns mit ihrer Expertise zur Verfügung stehen. Wir brauchen, und das ist unser Gefühl als Regierung, nicht nur Rat und Tat, sondern wir brauchen ab und zu auch Menschen, die uns antreiben, die uns unbequeme Fragen stellen und die darauf Wert legen, dass das, was wir miteinander diskutieren, dann auch in der Praxis umgesetzt wird. Und deshalb ist der Digitalrat ein kleines, schlagkräftiges Gremium mit 10 solcher Expertinnen und Experten. Und ich bin gespannt auf diese Arbeit und ich bin ganz sicher, dass uns diese Arbeit voranbringen wird und viele neue Ideen bringen wird, die wir dann als Regierung in die Tat umsetzen können. Und jetzt ahnen Sie, was für eine Frage kommt. Sind diese Ideen in die Tat umgesetzt worden? Ja und nein. Also wir haben in Summe über 50 konkrete Vorschläge, Ideen mit der Regierung diskutiert in Summe, ich glaub, 9 Sitzungen waren's. Und davon sind einige direkt umgesetzt worden, andere sind in Umsetzung und einige sind zurückgewiesen worden oder einfach noch gar nicht angegangen worden. Also insofern eine eine gemischte Bilanz. Mhm. Lassen Sie uns über die Bilanz mal 'n bisschen sprechen. Was hat sie denn da eher unglücklich gemacht? Was hat sie glücklich gemacht an dem, was umgesetzt wurde? Und pauschal von der Politik abgewiesen wurde? Na ja, einmal vor der Klammer muss man natürlich sagen, wir wären nicht dieser Digitalrat mit all den Menschen, die da drin sind, wenn wir mit dem Tempo zufrieden sein könnten. Wir sind in Rankings zurückgefallen, deshalb sind wir in Summe natürlich auch auch gegeben das, was wir in unseren jeweiligen Biografien erreicht haben. Natürlich sind wir nicht zufrieden. Es wär auch sehr merkwürdig, wenn es so wäre. Was uns was uns positiv gestimmt hat, ist zum einen, es gab immer eine sehr, sehr offene Diskussionskultur. Das hat die Kanzlerin natürlich mitgeprägt. Sie ist neugierig, sie will Sachen wissen, sie fragt Sachen nach. Sie will Themen wirklich verstehen und dadurch ist es uns gelungen, ein paar Themen zu setzen, die vorher gar nicht drauf waren. Also zum Beispiel die Bedeutung von Daten, insbesondere nicht personenbezogenen Daten im Rahmen 1 verantwortungsvollen Datennutzung, weil Daten sind die Zukunft, immer mehr Innovationen, immer mehr Problemlösungen entstehen aus Daten und das Thema war so gar nicht auf der Agenda. Das ist uns gelungen zu setzen. Es gibt inzwischen eine Datenstrategie der Bundesregierung, die hat auch viel positive Resonanz bekommen und da darf ich bei allem Respekt vielleicht und 1 Bescheidenheit sagen, das wär wahrscheinlich nicht so, wenn wir das Thema nicht über 2, wahrscheinlich sogar 3 Sitzungen gepusht hätten. Das andere, was uns durchaus auch gelungen ist, ist die geopolitische Bedeutung von Politik ins Spiel zu bringen. Die hat ja dann mit digitaler Souveränität das Thema auch in den Rat, in den Europäischen Rat eingebracht. Ich glaub, das war auch 'n Thema, was bis dato sicher bei einigen, aber noch nicht in der Größe verankert war. Was uns zum Beispiel gar nicht gelungen ist und das haben wir ja alle, zumindest die die Kinder haben, aber wahrscheinlich alle mitbekommen, das ganze Thema Bildung. Wir haben versucht, das Thema Bildung als bundespolitisches Thema auf die Agenda zu setzen. Ja, das ist schwierig auf jeden Fall und da müssen wir auch über Föderalismus reden, aber es geht auch eine Menge im derzeitigen föderalistischen Setup und man kann ja auch jeden Setup mal verändern und da ist es uns nicht sonderlich gelungen, das Thema wirklich zu verankern. Und wir merken aber, das ist ein Plattformgeschäft. Hier hier gibt's noch viel Strecke zu tun und jetzt können wir noch über kleinere Maßnahmen reden. Also zum Beispiel haben wir gesagt, hier die Bundesregierung muss noch mit gutem Beispiel vorangehen und muss unbedingt umsetzen die papierlose Kommunikation. Es werden sich ja immer noch Briefe hin- und hergeschickt. Das hat dann doch für unsere Verhältnisse relativ lange gedauert, bis dann sich dazu durchgerungen wurde immerhin, dass jetzt zwischen den Ministerien keine Briefe mehr geschrieben werden, sondern das ganze elektronische Kommunikation hat. Ein erster Schritt, ein symbolischer Einstieg in den Ausstieg. Wir hätten uns gewünscht, die Liebe zum Papier wäre flächendeckend in der in der gesammelten Bundesregierung, in der sammelten Verwaltung auch über alle Stufen hinweg einfach abgeschafft worden. Dass einfach nicht mehr zeitgemäß ist, auch nicht ökologisch. Und da solche doch klaren Schritte, die ja auch gar nicht so kompliziert sind, da ist sonst nicht immer einen etwas gelungen. Sie haben das Thema Digitalisierung im Bereich der Bildung angesprochen und da son bisschen leise doch den Föderalismus kritisiert. Was muss denn passieren, damit es im Bereich der Bildung, im Bereich der Schulen einfach wesentlich schneller vorangeht und dass wir nicht denjenigen, die heute in der fünften Klasse sagen müssen, na ja, wenn ihr irgendwann Abitur macht, dann kommen wir vielleicht dahin, wo wir jetzt sein wollen? Es ist nicht alles immer so easy und mit einem Knopfdruck getan, denn wir sprechen natürlich zum einen über das ganze Thema infrastrukturelle Ausstattung, Skoda behandelt. Also das heißt, wie kriege ich überhaupt dann WLAN? Wie kriege ich das Ganze installiert? Und insbesondere die Frage, der ja, die im Digitalpakt immer so schwierig war, wer macht das Ganze dann? Wer installiert das? Wer wartet das? Wer sorgt das, für dass das funktioniert? Wer richtet Passwörter ein und so weiter und so weiter. Das war nicht unser Thema. Wir haben gesagt, was es dringend braucht, ist Bildungsplattformen. Wir brauchen dringend zum Beispiel eine Plattform für Lehreraus- und Fortbildung, insbesondere den digitale Themen, wie den guten Umgang mit Daten beizubringen. Weil wenn wir die Lehrer nicht digital fortbilden, wie sollen die dann ihre Schüler digital fortbilden? Und da geht's ja weit mehr als immer nur dieses Programmieren. Da geht's auch weit mehr als Mediendidaktik. Da geht es echtes Verständnis, weil Digitalisierung ist anders und prägt unser Leben. Also Thema Lehrerplattform. Und da macht es natürlich Sinn, wenn ich von Plattformen rede, wir leben in Zeiten der Plattformökonomie, dann zu sagen, das macht jedes Bundesland oder jede Kommune oder sonst irgendwie für sehe ich, das macht ja keinen Sinn, das muss es doch zentral zur Verfügung gestellt werden. Und ja, dann kann man sagen, man macht so eine Art Up Store und dann kann auch wieder wettbewerbliche Aspekte reinbringen, dann können sich Leute darin bewerben, aber das schreit doch nach einem zentralen Angebot und umgekehrt, das kann ich nur sagen mit mit wir haben 3 Töchter und was wir alles mitgemacht haben an zig verschiedenen Tools, also ich hab mich glaub ich in 6 verschiedene Tools eingearbeitet, das ist dann natürlich auch Wahnsinn und Digitalisierung ist ein Plattformspiel und das bedeutet, dass Skalierung einfach Sinn macht und dass es darum geht, dann auch die Kosten runterzutreiben, die Usability hochzutreiben und da verstehe ich's Unser System, unser föderales System ist so nicht angelegt. Das soll Machtzentralisierung verhindern. Das war damals, als es geschaffen wurde, sicher richtig, Machtzentralisierung verhindern. Das war damals, als es geschaffen wurde, sicher richtig. Aber passt das noch zum digitalen Zeitalter? Und da glaube ich, nein, da passt es nicht mehr. Haben das inzwischen auch die Verantwortlichen verstanden in den Bundesministerien? Es gibt ja auch diese Diskussion dieses zentrale Digitalministerium immer mal wieder. Ja, das ist jetzt ja noch mal eine andere Frage. Also zum Beispiel könnte das BMBF, also das Ministerium für Bildung und Forschung, das könnte ja eine Lehrerplattform anbieten. Das hat ja erst mal gar nichts mit Digitalministerium zu tun, so wie ja jedes Ministerium seine eigenen Prozesse, seine Bürger- und Bürgerinnenangebote digitalisiert zur Verfügung stellen muss, vom Kindergeld bis zu Bildungsangeboten. Das Digitalministerium, das wär jetzt eine Zentralisierung innerhalb der Bundesregierung. Das ist ja sehr hitzig diskutiert worden. Ich würde erst mal vor der Klammer wieder sagen, eine Reorganisation, und das hab ich in meinen vielen Jahren in der Beratung kennengelernt, das löst immer ein Problem und schafft immer ziemlich viele neue. Also mit Reorganisation ist noch nicht noch nicht alles gelöst. Wir als Digitalrat, wir waren da auch sehr klar, dass wenn wir jetzt alle Digitalisierungsaufgaben, die die Bundesregierung hat, zentralisieren würden, dann werden wir weit zurückgeschmissen. Das kann es nicht sein. Also das wär vor vor 10 Jahren vielleicht richtig gewesen, aber das ist jetzt nicht mehr richtig. Aber es gibt heute in der Bundesregierung ein paar Lehrstellen. Also zum Beispiel die Frage, wer genau kümmert sich digitale Policy- und Zukunftsthemen, wie die Datenstrategie? Die hat das Kanzleramt federführend verantwortet. Das ist ja nicht so eigentlich der Bundesregierungset-up, weil es dort niemanden gab. Wer kümmert sich das Thema digitale Souveränität nach vorne zu treiben? Wer sorgt dafür, dass wir eine klare Stimme in Europa haben, wenn es an Digitalregulierung, DMA und DSA geht? Und diese Fragen, die müssen irgendwo gebündelt werden, die sind heute verstreut oder gar nicht behandelt, noch viel schlimmer. Und dann muss man überlegen, macht das Sinn, das in einem eigenen Ministerium zu bündeln? Macht das Sinn, das im Kanzleramt zu bündeln oder macht das Sinn, das in einem existierenden Ministerium zu bündeln? Das wiederum sind dann Fragen, die hängen natürlich vom Gesamtzuschnitt ab. Aber es gibt 'n paar Fragen heute, die nicht gelöst sind, die hab ich grade gesagt und ich glaube, die gesamte Bundesverwaltung muss dringend schneller und besser werden, ihre eigenen Themen und Produkte zu digitalisieren. Und hier könnte auch letzte Bundesregierung aus letzte Bundesregierung aus SPD, CDUCSU ist jetzt sozusagen am Ende. Wir warten auf die Ampelkoalition. Wird es jetzt wieder einen Digitalrat geben? Sitzen Sie sozusagen in Wartestellung grade auf halb 8 und warten, ob Sie angesprochen werden? Wie ist im Moment dieser Status quo, wie's weitergeht? Na ja, der Status, wir sind per Kabinettsbeschluss 20 18 eingesetzt worden. Der hatte, wahrscheinlich weil man nicht dran gedacht hat, der hatte keine Auflösungsklausel. Also rein formal existieren wir noch, wir haben aber natürlich selbstverständlich gesagt, so wir wir machen jetzt keine Sitzung und wir unterstützen nur noch mit einem ganz Light Touch Modell laufende Projekte, die die sowieso noch weiterlaufen und ansonsten ist es jetzt natürlich Aufgabe der nächsten Bundesregierung zu überlegen, ob sie das wieder in einen Koalitionsvertrag oder in in welcher Form auch immer oder in 'ner gesetzlichen Form irgendeine Form verankern oder nicht und wie sie das tun. Und insofern also sind wir jetzt, haben wir unsere Aktivitäten so weit runtergefahren, wie sich das gehört. Jetzt kommt eine neue Regierung und die muss für sich gestalten, wie sie regieren möchte. Nun wissen wir, dass der wahrscheinlich künftige Bundeskanzler Olaf Scholz nach den Koalitionsverhandlungen immer im Auto zurückfährt, nach Potsdam. Da hat er ungefähr so 20 Minuten Zeit. Das ist Zeit, unseren Podcast zu hören. Jetzt gehen wir mal davon aus, er hört uns grade zu. Er kommt von den Koalitionsverhandlungen zurück. Was könnten Sie denn ihm für ein Angebot machen? Was würden Sie ihm gerne für ein Angebot machen, was die Form des Digitalrats angeht? Ja, die Form des Digitalrats angeht? Der Digitalrat war 'n Experiment. Ich glaube, wir haben gelernt, was was wirklich gut und kraftvoll sein kann, dass wir Expertise hatten und dass wir alles Leute waren, die ganz konkret helfen wollten. Wir haben in vielen dieser 50 Maßnahmeninitiativen ganz konkret mit Unterstützung geholfen. Wir haben zum Beispiel alle Staatssekretäre mal mit denen einen agilen Workshop gemacht, die Arbeitsmethoden näherzubringen. Ich glaube, das ist ein Modell, ich sagen würde, das kann ich empfehlen, dass das funktioniert. Echte tatkräftige hilft von außen. Man muss die ihn aber natürlich weiterentwickeln. Das ist ja das mit Experimenten so ist ja auch die agile Arbeitsweise in den in den Review gehen, was hat geklappt, was hat nicht geklappt. Zum Beispiel ist es uns sehr schwergefallen, in Ministerien reinzugehen und dort konkreter zu helfen und Projekte ganz konkret zu unterstützen, weil wir dafür Wir hatten keine Geschäftsstelle. Es war auch eine gute Entscheidung zunächst keine Geschäftsstelle zu haben, damit wir schlank bleiben in Strukturen und keine Overhead Kosten und Strukturen schaffen. Aber dort noch mal klug nachzudenken, wie schafft man eigentlich das sozusagen Mainstream, also das in die Breite bringen dieser vielen und nicht ganz einfachen digitalen Themen und wie kann man in der Breite unterstützen, antreiben und auch Fragen stellen? Das ist sicher was, da lohnt sich's, drüber nachzudenken. Und da können wir gerne helfen. Wir haben gesagt, wir helfen in der Übergabe und teilen unsere Erfahrungen gerne mit. Katrin Suder, ganz herzlichen Dank für das Gespräch. Es war sehr spannend. Wir hoffen, wir hören noch viel von Ihnen. 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"transcript": "\nSpeaker 0: Und damit ein herzliches Willkommen zu unserem neuen Podcast. Wir sprechen in der heutigen Folge über den Digitalrat der Bundesregierung. Begrüßen dürfen wir dazu die Vorsitzende des Gremiums, Katrin Suder. Mein Name ist Julian Regenthalpatzak, herzlich willkommen. 2018 hat die damalige Große Koalition aus SPD und CDUCSU den Digitalrat ins Leben gerufen.\n\nDas ehrenamtlich arbeitende Gremium besteht aus Expertinnen und Experten verschiedener Bereiche wie künstliche Intelligenz, Medizin oder Rechtsinformatik. Es sollte der Regierung und seinen Ministerien in Fragen der Digitalisierung beratend zur Seite stehen, Impulse setzen, aber auch kritische Fragen stellen. Über den Rat, seine Zusammensetzung und darüber, was man in 3 Jahren Arbeit zusammen erreicht hat, darüber wollen wir sprechen. Und ich freu mich dazu, 'n prominenten Gast begrüßen zu dürfen, Katrin Suder. Sie war nach Stationen in der Privatwirtschaft und im Bundesverteidigungsministerium die Vorsitzende des Digitalrats der letzten Bundesregierung.\n\nSie ist uns jetzt per App zugeschaltet. Hallo und herzlich willkommen, liebe Frau Suda.\n\nSpeaker 1: Hallo, guten Morgen, ich freu mich.\n\nSpeaker 0: Liebe Frau Suda, lassen Sie uns erst mal über die Entstehungsgeschichte des Digitalrates sprechen und darüber, wie Sie zum Digitalrat gekommen sind. Wie war das damals?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, der Digitalrat ist verankert im Koalitionsvertrag. Das heißt, er hat ein ganz klares Mandat und Auftrag und es war dann in 2018, also die Regierung hatte sich ja Anfang des Jahres formiert. Ich bin mit Ende der letzten Regierung, also nach der Formierung der neuen, bin ich aus dem Amt ausgeschieden und dann hat mich die Bundeskanzlerin zu sich gerufen und hat mich gefragt, ob's ich mir denn vorstellen könnte, diesen Digitalrat zu leiten. Und dann hab ich 'n bisschen Nachdenkzeit erbeten und hab dann auch darüber diskutiert, wie müsste er aufgestellt sein? Was wären sozusagen die Randbedingungen, an die ich glaube, dass so ein Rat erfolgreich arbeiten kann?\n\nUnd nachdem wir darüber diskutiert haben, dann auch mit dem Kanzleramt, Frau Christiansen und Herr Braun, ja, dann waren wir, wie man so schön sagt, handelseinig.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wir wollen ja gleich son bisschen Bilanz ziehen. Können Sie Ihre Rahmenbedingungen, die Sie damals gestellt haben, darlegen? Was war das? Was was wollten Sie? Was haben Sie verlangt?\n\nSpeaker 1: Naja, zum einen hab ich gesagt, die Zusammensetzung des Digitalrats oder jedem Gremiums ist eigentlich essenziell wichtig. Und ich hatte 2 Dinge gesagt, das eine ist, ich wollte echte Experten auf ihrem Feld. Also Leute, die die Themen nachweislich durchstoßen haben, die die Themen kennen, die es auch am konkreten Beispiel, sei es in Wissenschaft oder in der Wirtschaft gezeigt haben, dass sie ihre Themen beherrschen. Ich wollte auch definitiv keine großen Companys drin haben, keine Interessenvertretung, also wirkliche inhaltliche Expertise und Leute, die den Willen haben, diese Expertise im Sinne des Landes einzubringen. Das war die eine Handbedingung und die zweite war, ich wollte ein hochgradig diverses Team.\n\nIch glaube an die Kraft von diversen Teams, dass die bessere Lösungen entwickeln, das ist nicht immer einfach. Da passiert auch mal Reibung und Streit, aber ich glaub daran und dieses Team ist ja dann auch sehr, sehr divers geworden. Über 20 Jahre Altersunterschied, wir haben wir haben Leute aus der Wissenschaft, aus der Wirtschaft, wir haben von Start-up, wir haben also wir haben 4 4 Frauen, 5 Männer. Wir haben aus 4 Nationen und lebend in 4 Nationen, also wirklich ein Bund gemischtes Gremium.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nun blicken wir noch mal kurz zurück auf das Jahr 2018. Da gab es einen Podcast der Bundeskanzlerin, wo sie zum Digitalrat gesprochen hat. Und da hören wir mal zusammen rein.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich bin überzeugt, dass wir insgesamt in unserem Regierungshandeln nur mithalten können, wenn wir uns auch immer wieder Rat von außen suchen. Und genau das tun wir, indem wir Expertinnen und Experten aus den verschiedenen Bereichen bitten, uns im Digitalrat zur Seite zu stehen und uns zu beraten. Dabei geht es darum, dass das Menschen sind, die unterschiedliche Erfahrungen haben in dem gesamten Bereich der Digitalisierung und die uns mit ihrer Expertise zur Verfügung stehen. Wir brauchen, und das ist unser Gefühl als Regierung, nicht nur Rat und Tat, sondern wir brauchen ab und zu auch Menschen, die uns antreiben, die uns unbequeme Fragen stellen und die darauf Wert legen, dass das, was wir miteinander diskutieren, dann auch in der Praxis umgesetzt wird. Und deshalb ist der Digitalrat ein kleines, schlagkräftiges Gremium mit 10 solcher Expertinnen und Experten.\n\nUnd ich bin gespannt auf diese Arbeit und ich bin ganz sicher, dass uns diese Arbeit voranbringen wird und viele neue Ideen bringen wird, die wir dann als Regierung in die Tat umsetzen können.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und jetzt ahnen Sie, was für eine Frage kommt. Sind diese Ideen in die Tat umgesetzt worden?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja und nein. Also wir haben in Summe über 50 konkrete Vorschläge, Ideen mit der Regierung diskutiert in Summe, ich glaub, 9 Sitzungen waren's. Und davon sind einige direkt umgesetzt worden, andere sind in Umsetzung und einige sind zurückgewiesen worden oder einfach noch gar nicht angegangen worden. Also insofern eine eine gemischte Bilanz.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Lassen Sie uns über die Bilanz mal 'n bisschen sprechen. Was hat sie denn da eher unglücklich gemacht? Was hat sie glücklich gemacht an dem, was umgesetzt wurde? Und pauschal von der Politik abgewiesen wurde?\n\nSpeaker 1: Na ja, einmal vor der Klammer muss man natürlich sagen, wir wären nicht dieser Digitalrat mit all den Menschen, die da drin sind, wenn wir mit dem Tempo zufrieden sein könnten. Wir sind in Rankings zurückgefallen, deshalb sind wir in Summe natürlich auch auch gegeben das, was wir in unseren jeweiligen Biografien erreicht haben. Natürlich sind wir nicht zufrieden. Es wär auch sehr merkwürdig, wenn es so wäre. Was uns was uns positiv gestimmt hat, ist zum einen, es gab immer eine sehr, sehr offene Diskussionskultur.\n\nDas hat die Kanzlerin natürlich mitgeprägt. Sie ist neugierig, sie will Sachen wissen, sie fragt Sachen nach. Sie will Themen wirklich verstehen und dadurch ist es uns gelungen, ein paar Themen zu setzen, die vorher gar nicht drauf waren. Also zum Beispiel die Bedeutung von Daten, insbesondere nicht personenbezogenen Daten im Rahmen 1 verantwortungsvollen Datennutzung, weil Daten sind die Zukunft, immer mehr Innovationen, immer mehr Problemlösungen entstehen aus Daten und das Thema war so gar nicht auf der Agenda. Das ist uns gelungen zu setzen.\n\nEs gibt inzwischen eine Datenstrategie der Bundesregierung, die hat auch viel positive Resonanz bekommen und da darf ich bei allem Respekt vielleicht und 1 Bescheidenheit sagen, das wär wahrscheinlich nicht so, wenn wir das Thema nicht über 2, wahrscheinlich sogar 3 Sitzungen gepusht hätten. Das andere, was uns durchaus auch gelungen ist, ist die geopolitische Bedeutung von Politik ins Spiel zu bringen. Die hat ja dann mit digitaler Souveränität das Thema auch in den Rat, in den Europäischen Rat eingebracht. Ich glaub, das war auch 'n Thema, was bis dato sicher bei einigen, aber noch nicht in der Größe verankert war. Was uns zum Beispiel gar nicht gelungen ist und das haben wir ja alle, zumindest die die Kinder haben, aber wahrscheinlich alle mitbekommen, das ganze Thema Bildung.\n\nWir haben versucht, das Thema Bildung als bundespolitisches Thema auf die Agenda zu setzen. Ja, das ist schwierig auf jeden Fall und da müssen wir auch über Föderalismus reden, aber es geht auch eine Menge im derzeitigen föderalistischen Setup und man kann ja auch jeden Setup mal verändern und da ist es uns nicht sonderlich gelungen, das Thema wirklich zu verankern. Und wir merken aber, das ist ein Plattformgeschäft. Hier hier gibt's noch viel Strecke zu tun und jetzt können wir noch über kleinere Maßnahmen reden. Also zum Beispiel haben wir gesagt, hier die Bundesregierung muss noch mit gutem Beispiel vorangehen und muss unbedingt umsetzen die papierlose Kommunikation.\n\nEs werden sich ja immer noch Briefe hin- und hergeschickt. Das hat dann doch für unsere Verhältnisse relativ lange gedauert, bis dann sich dazu durchgerungen wurde immerhin, dass jetzt zwischen den Ministerien keine Briefe mehr geschrieben werden, sondern das ganze elektronische Kommunikation hat. Ein erster Schritt, ein symbolischer Einstieg in den Ausstieg. Wir hätten uns gewünscht, die Liebe zum Papier wäre flächendeckend in der in der gesammelten Bundesregierung, in der sammelten Verwaltung auch über alle Stufen hinweg einfach abgeschafft worden. Dass einfach nicht mehr zeitgemäß ist, auch nicht ökologisch.\n\nUnd da solche doch klaren Schritte, die ja auch gar nicht so kompliziert sind, da ist sonst nicht immer einen etwas gelungen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Sie haben das Thema Digitalisierung im Bereich der Bildung angesprochen und da son bisschen leise doch den Föderalismus kritisiert. Was muss denn passieren, damit es im Bereich der Bildung, im Bereich der Schulen einfach wesentlich schneller vorangeht und dass wir nicht denjenigen, die heute in der fünften Klasse sagen müssen, na ja, wenn ihr irgendwann Abitur macht, dann kommen wir vielleicht dahin, wo wir jetzt sein wollen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Es ist nicht alles immer so easy und mit einem Knopfdruck getan, denn wir sprechen natürlich zum einen über das ganze Thema infrastrukturelle Ausstattung, Skoda behandelt. Also das heißt, wie kriege ich überhaupt dann WLAN? Wie kriege ich das Ganze installiert? Und insbesondere die Frage, der ja, die im Digitalpakt immer so schwierig war, wer macht das Ganze dann? Wer installiert das?\n\nWer wartet das? Wer sorgt das, für dass das funktioniert? Wer richtet Passwörter ein und so weiter und so weiter. Das war nicht unser Thema. Wir haben gesagt, was es dringend braucht, ist Bildungsplattformen.\n\nWir brauchen dringend zum Beispiel eine Plattform für Lehreraus- und Fortbildung, insbesondere den digitale Themen, wie den guten Umgang mit Daten beizubringen. Weil wenn wir die Lehrer nicht digital fortbilden, wie sollen die dann ihre Schüler digital fortbilden? Und da geht's ja weit mehr als immer nur dieses Programmieren. Da geht's auch weit mehr als Mediendidaktik. Da geht es echtes Verständnis, weil Digitalisierung ist anders und prägt unser Leben.\n\nAlso Thema Lehrerplattform. Und da macht es natürlich Sinn, wenn ich von Plattformen rede, wir leben in Zeiten der Plattformökonomie, dann zu sagen, das macht jedes Bundesland oder jede Kommune oder sonst irgendwie für sehe ich, das macht ja keinen Sinn, das muss es doch zentral zur Verfügung gestellt werden. Und ja, dann kann man sagen, man macht so eine Art Up Store und dann kann auch wieder wettbewerbliche Aspekte reinbringen, dann können sich Leute darin bewerben, aber das schreit doch nach einem zentralen Angebot und umgekehrt, das kann ich nur sagen mit mit wir haben 3 Töchter und was wir alles mitgemacht haben an zig verschiedenen Tools, also ich hab mich glaub ich in 6 verschiedene Tools eingearbeitet, das ist dann natürlich auch Wahnsinn und Digitalisierung ist ein Plattformspiel und das bedeutet, dass Skalierung einfach Sinn macht und dass es darum geht, dann auch die Kosten runterzutreiben, die Usability hochzutreiben und da verstehe ich's Unser System, unser föderales System ist so nicht angelegt. Das soll Machtzentralisierung verhindern. Das war damals, als es geschaffen wurde, sicher richtig, Machtzentralisierung verhindern.\n\nDas war damals, als es geschaffen wurde, sicher richtig. Aber passt das noch zum digitalen Zeitalter? Und da glaube ich, nein, da passt es nicht mehr.\n\nSpeaker 0: Haben das inzwischen auch die Verantwortlichen verstanden in den Bundesministerien? Es gibt ja auch diese Diskussion dieses zentrale Digitalministerium immer mal wieder.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das ist jetzt ja noch mal eine andere Frage. Also zum Beispiel könnte das BMBF, also das Ministerium für Bildung und Forschung, das könnte ja eine Lehrerplattform anbieten. Das hat ja erst mal gar nichts mit Digitalministerium zu tun, so wie ja jedes Ministerium seine eigenen Prozesse, seine Bürger- und Bürgerinnenangebote digitalisiert zur Verfügung stellen muss, vom Kindergeld bis zu Bildungsangeboten. Das Digitalministerium, das wär jetzt eine Zentralisierung innerhalb der Bundesregierung. Das ist ja sehr hitzig diskutiert worden.\n\nIch würde erst mal vor der Klammer wieder sagen, eine Reorganisation, und das hab ich in meinen vielen Jahren in der Beratung kennengelernt, das löst immer ein Problem und schafft immer ziemlich viele neue. Also mit Reorganisation ist noch nicht noch nicht alles gelöst. Wir als Digitalrat, wir waren da auch sehr klar, dass wenn wir jetzt alle Digitalisierungsaufgaben, die die Bundesregierung hat, zentralisieren würden, dann werden wir weit zurückgeschmissen. Das kann es nicht sein. Also das wär vor vor 10 Jahren vielleicht richtig gewesen, aber das ist jetzt nicht mehr richtig.\n\nAber es gibt heute in der Bundesregierung ein paar Lehrstellen. Also zum Beispiel die Frage, wer genau kümmert sich digitale Policy- und Zukunftsthemen, wie die Datenstrategie? Die hat das Kanzleramt federführend verantwortet. Das ist ja nicht so eigentlich der Bundesregierungset-up, weil es dort niemanden gab. Wer kümmert sich das Thema digitale Souveränität nach vorne zu treiben?\n\nWer sorgt dafür, dass wir eine klare Stimme in Europa haben, wenn es an Digitalregulierung, DMA und DSA geht? Und diese Fragen, die müssen irgendwo gebündelt werden, die sind heute verstreut oder gar nicht behandelt, noch viel schlimmer. Und dann muss man überlegen, macht das Sinn, das in einem eigenen Ministerium zu bündeln? Macht das Sinn, das im Kanzleramt zu bündeln oder macht das Sinn, das in einem existierenden Ministerium zu bündeln? Das wiederum sind dann Fragen, die hängen natürlich vom Gesamtzuschnitt ab.\n\nAber es gibt 'n paar Fragen heute, die nicht gelöst sind, die hab ich grade gesagt und ich glaube, die gesamte Bundesverwaltung muss dringend schneller und besser werden, ihre eigenen Themen und Produkte zu digitalisieren. Und hier könnte auch letzte\n\nSpeaker 0: Bundesregierung aus letzte Bundesregierung aus SPD, CDUCSU ist jetzt sozusagen am Ende. Wir warten auf die Ampelkoalition. Wird es jetzt wieder einen Digitalrat geben? Sitzen Sie sozusagen in Wartestellung grade auf halb 8 und warten, ob Sie angesprochen werden? Wie ist im Moment dieser Status quo, wie's weitergeht?\n\nSpeaker 1: Na ja, der Status, wir sind per Kabinettsbeschluss 20 18 eingesetzt worden. Der hatte, wahrscheinlich weil man nicht dran gedacht hat, der hatte keine Auflösungsklausel. Also rein formal existieren wir noch, wir haben aber natürlich selbstverständlich gesagt, so wir wir machen jetzt keine Sitzung und wir unterstützen nur noch mit einem ganz Light Touch Modell laufende Projekte, die die sowieso noch weiterlaufen und ansonsten ist es jetzt natürlich Aufgabe der nächsten Bundesregierung zu überlegen, ob sie das wieder in einen Koalitionsvertrag oder in in welcher Form auch immer oder in 'ner gesetzlichen Form irgendeine Form verankern oder nicht und wie sie das tun. Und insofern also sind wir jetzt, haben wir unsere Aktivitäten so weit runtergefahren, wie sich das gehört. Jetzt kommt eine neue Regierung und die muss für sich gestalten, wie sie regieren möchte.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nun wissen wir, dass der wahrscheinlich künftige Bundeskanzler Olaf Scholz nach den Koalitionsverhandlungen immer im Auto zurückfährt, nach Potsdam. Da hat er ungefähr so 20 Minuten Zeit. Das ist Zeit, unseren Podcast zu hören. Jetzt gehen wir mal davon aus, er hört uns grade zu. Er kommt von den Koalitionsverhandlungen zurück.\n\nWas könnten Sie denn ihm für ein Angebot machen? Was würden Sie ihm gerne für ein Angebot machen, was die Form des Digitalrats angeht? Ja, die Form des Digitalrats\n\nSpeaker 1: angeht? Der Digitalrat war 'n Experiment. Ich glaube, wir haben gelernt, was was wirklich gut und kraftvoll sein kann, dass wir Expertise hatten und dass wir alles Leute waren, die ganz konkret helfen wollten. Wir haben in vielen dieser 50 Maßnahmeninitiativen ganz konkret mit Unterstützung geholfen. Wir haben zum Beispiel alle Staatssekretäre mal mit denen einen agilen Workshop gemacht, die Arbeitsmethoden näherzubringen.\n\nIch glaube, das ist ein Modell, ich sagen würde, das kann ich empfehlen, dass das funktioniert. Echte tatkräftige hilft von außen. Man muss die ihn aber natürlich weiterentwickeln. Das ist ja das mit Experimenten so ist ja auch die agile Arbeitsweise in den in den Review gehen, was hat geklappt, was hat nicht geklappt. Zum Beispiel ist es uns sehr schwergefallen, in Ministerien reinzugehen und dort konkreter zu helfen und Projekte ganz konkret zu unterstützen, weil wir dafür Wir hatten keine Geschäftsstelle.\n\nEs war auch eine gute Entscheidung zunächst keine Geschäftsstelle zu haben, damit wir schlank bleiben in Strukturen und keine Overhead Kosten und Strukturen schaffen. Aber dort noch mal klug nachzudenken, wie schafft man eigentlich das sozusagen Mainstream, also das in die Breite bringen dieser vielen und nicht ganz einfachen digitalen Themen und wie kann man in der Breite unterstützen, antreiben und auch Fragen stellen? Das ist sicher was, da lohnt sich's, drüber nachzudenken. Und da können wir gerne helfen. Wir haben gesagt, wir helfen in der Übergabe und teilen unsere Erfahrungen gerne mit.\n\nSpeaker 0: Katrin Suder, ganz herzlichen Dank für das Gespräch. Es war sehr spannend. Wir hoffen, wir hören noch viel von Ihnen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, bitte.", "paragraphs": [ { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und damit ein herzliches Willkommen zu unserem neuen Podcast.", "start": 6.96, "end": 10.099999 }, { "text": "Wir sprechen in der heutigen Folge über den Digitalrat der Bundesregierung.", "start": 10.48, "end": 14.179999 }, { "text": "Begrüßen dürfen wir dazu die Vorsitzende des Gremiums, Katrin Suder.", "start": 15.025, "end": 19.425 }, { "text": "Mein Name ist Julian Regenthalpatzak, herzlich willkommen.", "start": 19.425, "end": 22.005 }, { "text": "2018 hat die damalige Große Koalition aus SPD und CDUCSU den Digitalrat ins Leben gerufen.", "start": 24.625, "end": 33.09 } ], "start": 6.96, "end": 33.09, "num_words": 52.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das ehrenamtlich arbeitende Gremium besteht aus Expertinnen und Experten verschiedener Bereiche wie künstliche Intelligenz, Medizin oder Rechtsinformatik.", "start": 33.39, "end": 42.45 }, { "text": "Es sollte der Regierung und seinen Ministerien in Fragen der Digitalisierung beratend zur Seite stehen, Impulse setzen, aber auch kritische Fragen stellen.", "start": 43.415, "end": 52.394997 }, { "text": "Über den Rat, seine Zusammensetzung und darüber, was man in 3 Jahren Arbeit zusammen erreicht hat, darüber wollen wir sprechen.", "start": 52.614998, "end": 60.88 }, { "text": "Und ich freu mich dazu, 'n prominenten Gast begrüßen zu dürfen, Katrin Suder.", "start": 60.88, "end": 65.36 }, { "text": "Sie war nach Stationen in der Privatwirtschaft und im Bundesverteidigungsministerium die Vorsitzende des Digitalrats der letzten Bundesregierung.", "start": 65.36, "end": 73.695 } ], "start": 33.39, "end": 73.695, "num_words": 89.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sie ist uns jetzt per App zugeschaltet.", "start": 74.075, "end": 76.015 }, { "text": "Hallo und herzlich willkommen, liebe Frau Suda.", "start": 76.55499, "end": 78.494995 } ], "start": 74.075, "end": 78.494995, "num_words": 14.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Hallo, guten Morgen, ich freu mich.", "start": 78.954994, "end": 80.73 } ], "start": 78.954994, "end": 80.73, "num_words": 6.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Liebe Frau Suda, lassen Sie uns erst mal über die Entstehungsgeschichte des Digitalrates sprechen und darüber, wie Sie zum Digitalrat gekommen sind.", "start": 80.97, "end": 88.57 }, { "text": "Wie war das damals?", "start": 88.57, "end": 89.630005 } ], "start": 80.97, "end": 89.630005, "num_words": 26.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, der Digitalrat ist verankert im Koalitionsvertrag.", "start": 90.41, "end": 92.990005 }, { "text": "Das heißt, er hat ein ganz klares Mandat und Auftrag und es war dann in 2018, also die Regierung hatte sich ja Anfang des Jahres formiert.", "start": 93.770004, "end": 101.795006 }, { "text": "Ich bin mit Ende der letzten Regierung, also nach der Formierung der neuen, bin ich aus dem Amt ausgeschieden und dann hat mich die Bundeskanzlerin zu sich gerufen und hat mich gefragt, ob's ich mir denn vorstellen könnte, diesen Digitalrat zu leiten.", "start": 102.335, "end": 116.8 }, { "text": "Und dann hab ich 'n bisschen Nachdenkzeit erbeten und hab dann auch darüber diskutiert, wie müsste er aufgestellt sein?", "start": 117.02, "end": 122.3 }, { "text": "Was wären sozusagen die Randbedingungen, an die ich glaube, dass so ein Rat erfolgreich arbeiten kann?", "start": 122.3, "end": 127.205 } ], "start": 90.41, "end": 127.205, "num_words": 110.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und nachdem wir darüber diskutiert haben, dann auch mit dem Kanzleramt, Frau Christiansen und Herr Braun, ja, dann waren wir, wie man so schön sagt, handelseinig.", "start": 127.345, "end": 134.085 } ], "start": 127.345, "end": 134.085, "num_words": 26.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir wollen ja gleich son bisschen Bilanz ziehen.", "start": 135.02501, "end": 137.02501 }, { "text": "Können Sie Ihre Rahmenbedingungen, die Sie damals gestellt haben, darlegen?", "start": 137.02501, "end": 141.23999 }, { "text": "Was war das?", "start": 141.23999, "end": 141.79999 }, { "text": "Was was wollten Sie?", "start": 141.79999, "end": 142.51999 }, { "text": "Was haben Sie verlangt?", "start": 142.51999, "end": 143.5 } ], "start": 135.02501, "end": 143.5, "num_words": 29.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Naja, zum einen hab ich gesagt, die Zusammensetzung des Digitalrats oder jedem Gremiums ist eigentlich essenziell wichtig.", "start": 144.28, "end": 150.84 }, { "text": "Und ich hatte 2 Dinge gesagt, das eine ist, ich wollte echte Experten auf ihrem Feld.", "start": 150.84, "end": 156.725 }, { "text": "Also Leute, die die Themen nachweislich durchstoßen haben, die die Themen kennen, die es auch am konkreten Beispiel, sei es in Wissenschaft oder in der Wirtschaft gezeigt haben, dass sie ihre Themen beherrschen.", "start": 157.025, "end": 167.54 }, { "text": "Ich wollte auch definitiv keine großen Companys drin haben, keine Interessenvertretung, also wirkliche inhaltliche Expertise und Leute, die den Willen haben, diese Expertise im Sinne des Landes einzubringen.", "start": 167.92, "end": 179.04501 }, { "text": "Das war die eine Handbedingung und die zweite war, ich wollte ein hochgradig diverses Team.", "start": 179.10501, "end": 183.425 } ], "start": 144.28, "end": 183.425, "num_words": 109.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ich glaube an die Kraft von diversen Teams, dass die bessere Lösungen entwickeln, das ist nicht immer einfach.", "start": 183.425, "end": 188.065 }, { "text": "Da passiert auch mal Reibung und Streit, aber ich glaub daran und dieses Team ist ja dann auch sehr, sehr divers geworden.", "start": 188.065, "end": 193.98999 }, { "text": "Über 20 Jahre Altersunterschied, wir haben wir haben Leute aus der Wissenschaft, aus der Wirtschaft, wir haben von Start-up, wir haben also wir haben 4 4 Frauen, 5 Männer.", "start": 194.20999, "end": 204.06499 }, { "text": "Wir haben aus 4 Nationen und lebend in 4 Nationen, also wirklich ein Bund gemischtes Gremium.", "start": 204.06499, "end": 208.72499 } ], "start": 183.425, "end": 208.72499, "num_words": 85.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Nun blicken wir noch mal kurz zurück auf das Jahr 2018.", "start": 209.98499, "end": 212.805 }, { "text": "Da gab es einen Podcast der Bundeskanzlerin, wo sie zum Digitalrat gesprochen hat.", "start": 213.34499, "end": 218.37001 }, { "text": "Und da hören wir mal zusammen rein.", "start": 218.37001, "end": 219.99 } ], "start": 209.98499, "end": 219.99, "num_words": 31.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ich bin überzeugt, dass wir insgesamt in unserem Regierungshandeln nur mithalten können, wenn wir uns auch immer wieder Rat von außen suchen.", "start": 220.13, "end": 228.31001 }, { "text": "Und genau das tun wir, indem wir Expertinnen und Experten aus den verschiedenen Bereichen bitten, uns im Digitalrat zur Seite zu stehen und uns zu beraten.", "start": 228.605, "end": 238.465 }, { "text": "Dabei geht es darum, dass das Menschen sind, die unterschiedliche Erfahrungen haben in dem gesamten Bereich der Digitalisierung und die uns mit ihrer Expertise zur Verfügung stehen.", "start": 239.08499, "end": 250.29001 }, { "text": "Wir brauchen, und das ist unser Gefühl als Regierung, nicht nur Rat und Tat, sondern wir brauchen ab und zu auch Menschen, die uns antreiben, die uns unbequeme Fragen stellen und die darauf Wert legen, dass das, was wir miteinander diskutieren, dann auch in der Praxis umgesetzt wird.", "start": 250.83, "end": 265.745 }, { "text": "Und deshalb ist der Digitalrat ein kleines, schlagkräftiges Gremium mit 10 solcher Expertinnen und Experten.", "start": 265.885, "end": 272.75 } ], "start": 220.13, "end": 272.75, "num_words": 138.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und ich bin gespannt auf diese Arbeit und ich bin ganz sicher, dass uns diese Arbeit voranbringen wird und viele neue Ideen bringen wird, die wir dann als Regierung in die Tat umsetzen können.", "start": 273.13, "end": 283.755 } ], "start": 273.13, "end": 283.755, "num_words": 34.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und jetzt ahnen Sie, was für eine Frage kommt.", "start": 284.075, "end": 286.95502 }, { "text": "Sind diese Ideen in die Tat umgesetzt worden?", "start": 286.95502, "end": 289.535 } ], "start": 284.075, "end": 289.535, "num_words": 17.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja und nein.", "start": 290.715, "end": 291.695 }, { "text": "Also wir haben in Summe über 50 konkrete Vorschläge, Ideen mit der Regierung diskutiert in Summe, ich glaub, 9 Sitzungen waren's.", "start": 292.155, "end": 299.375 }, { "text": "Und davon sind einige direkt umgesetzt worden, andere sind in Umsetzung und einige sind zurückgewiesen worden oder einfach noch gar nicht angegangen worden.", "start": 299.81, "end": 308.29 }, { "text": "Also insofern eine eine gemischte Bilanz.", "start": 308.29, "end": 310.47 } ], "start": 290.715, "end": 310.47, "num_words": 53.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 310.93002, "end": 311.33002 }, { "text": "Lassen Sie uns über die Bilanz mal 'n bisschen sprechen.", "start": 311.33002, "end": 313.25888 }, { "text": "Was hat sie denn da eher unglücklich gemacht?", "start": 313.25888, "end": 313.33002 }, { "text": "Was hat sie glücklich gemacht an dem, was umgesetzt wurde?", "start": 313.33002, "end": 313.89 }, { "text": "Und pauschal von der Politik abgewiesen wurde?", "start": 313.89, "end": 323.03497 } ], "start": 310.93002, "end": 323.03497, "num_words": 36.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Na ja, einmal vor der Klammer muss man natürlich sagen, wir wären nicht dieser Digitalrat mit all den Menschen, die da drin sind, wenn wir mit dem Tempo zufrieden sein könnten.", "start": 323.03497, "end": 330.52 }, { "text": "Wir sind in Rankings zurückgefallen, deshalb sind wir in Summe natürlich auch auch gegeben das, was wir in unseren jeweiligen Biografien erreicht haben.", "start": 330.52, "end": 337.24 }, { "text": "Natürlich sind wir nicht zufrieden.", "start": 337.24, "end": 338.12 }, { "text": "Es wär auch sehr merkwürdig, wenn es so wäre.", "start": 338.12, "end": 340.22 }, { "text": "Was uns was uns positiv gestimmt hat, ist zum einen, es gab immer eine sehr, sehr offene Diskussionskultur.", "start": 340.84, "end": 346.885 } ], "start": 323.03497, "end": 346.885, "num_words": 86.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das hat die Kanzlerin natürlich mitgeprägt.", "start": 347.745, "end": 349.505 }, { "text": "Sie ist neugierig, sie will Sachen wissen, sie fragt Sachen nach.", "start": 349.505, "end": 352.385 }, { "text": "Sie will Themen wirklich verstehen und dadurch ist es uns gelungen, ein paar Themen zu setzen, die vorher gar nicht drauf waren.", "start": 352.385, "end": 358.14 }, { "text": "Also zum Beispiel die Bedeutung von Daten, insbesondere nicht personenbezogenen Daten im Rahmen 1 verantwortungsvollen Datennutzung, weil Daten sind die Zukunft, immer mehr Innovationen, immer mehr Problemlösungen entstehen aus Daten und das Thema war so gar nicht auf der Agenda.", "start": 358.14, "end": 372.635 }, { "text": "Das ist uns gelungen zu setzen.", "start": 372.635, "end": 373.83502 } ], "start": 347.745, "end": 373.83502, "num_words": 85.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Es gibt inzwischen eine Datenstrategie der Bundesregierung, die hat auch viel positive Resonanz bekommen und da darf ich bei allem Respekt vielleicht und 1 Bescheidenheit sagen, das wär wahrscheinlich nicht so, wenn wir das Thema nicht über 2, wahrscheinlich sogar 3 Sitzungen gepusht hätten.", "start": 373.83502, "end": 387.05002 }, { "text": "Das andere, was uns durchaus auch gelungen ist, ist die geopolitische Bedeutung von Politik ins Spiel zu bringen.", "start": 387.51, "end": 393.11002 }, { "text": "Die hat ja dann mit digitaler Souveränität das Thema auch in den Rat, in den Europäischen Rat eingebracht.", "start": 393.11002, "end": 397.615 }, { "text": "Ich glaub, das war auch 'n Thema, was bis dato sicher bei einigen, aber noch nicht in der Größe verankert war.", "start": 397.915, "end": 402.635 }, { "text": "Was uns zum Beispiel gar nicht gelungen ist und das haben wir ja alle, zumindest die die Kinder haben, aber wahrscheinlich alle mitbekommen, das ganze Thema Bildung.", "start": 402.635, "end": 410.43 } ], "start": 373.83502, "end": 410.43, "num_words": 128.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir haben versucht, das Thema Bildung als bundespolitisches Thema auf die Agenda zu setzen.", "start": 410.43, "end": 414.59 }, { "text": "Ja, das ist schwierig auf jeden Fall und da müssen wir auch über Föderalismus reden, aber es geht auch eine Menge im derzeitigen föderalistischen Setup und man kann ja auch jeden Setup mal verändern und da ist es uns nicht sonderlich gelungen, das Thema wirklich zu verankern.", "start": 414.59, "end": 427.925 }, { "text": "Und wir merken aber, das ist ein Plattformgeschäft.", "start": 428.545, "end": 430.405 }, { "text": "Hier hier gibt's noch viel Strecke zu tun und jetzt können wir noch über kleinere Maßnahmen reden.", "start": 431.105, "end": 435.24 }, { "text": "Also zum Beispiel haben wir gesagt, hier die Bundesregierung muss noch mit gutem Beispiel vorangehen und muss unbedingt umsetzen die papierlose Kommunikation.", "start": 435.24, "end": 442.69998 } ], "start": 410.43, "end": 442.69998, "num_words": 108.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Es werden sich ja immer noch Briefe hin- und hergeschickt.", "start": 442.75998, "end": 444.69998 }, { "text": "Das hat dann doch für unsere Verhältnisse relativ lange gedauert, bis dann sich dazu durchgerungen wurde immerhin, dass jetzt zwischen den Ministerien keine Briefe mehr geschrieben werden, sondern das ganze elektronische Kommunikation hat.", "start": 445.08, "end": 456.165 }, { "text": "Ein erster Schritt, ein symbolischer Einstieg in den Ausstieg.", "start": 456.165, "end": 458.505 }, { "text": "Wir hätten uns gewünscht, die Liebe zum Papier wäre flächendeckend in der in der gesammelten Bundesregierung, in der sammelten Verwaltung auch über alle Stufen hinweg einfach abgeschafft worden.", "start": 458.645, "end": 468.12 }, { "text": "Dass einfach nicht mehr zeitgemäß ist, auch nicht ökologisch.", "start": 468.12, "end": 470.38 } ], "start": 442.75998, "end": 470.38, "num_words": 89.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und da solche doch klaren Schritte, die ja auch gar nicht so kompliziert sind, da ist sonst nicht immer einen etwas gelungen.", "start": 471.16, "end": 477.66 } ], "start": 471.16, "end": 477.66, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sie haben das Thema Digitalisierung im Bereich der Bildung angesprochen und da son bisschen leise doch den Föderalismus kritisiert.", "start": 478.535, "end": 487.515 }, { "text": "Was muss denn passieren, damit es im Bereich der Bildung, im Bereich der Schulen einfach wesentlich schneller vorangeht und dass wir nicht denjenigen, die heute in der fünften Klasse sagen müssen, na ja, wenn ihr irgendwann Abitur macht, dann kommen wir vielleicht dahin, wo wir jetzt sein wollen?", "start": 487.655, "end": 500.83002 } ], "start": 478.535, "end": 500.83002, "num_words": 67.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Es ist nicht alles immer so easy und mit einem Knopfdruck getan, denn wir sprechen natürlich zum einen über das ganze Thema infrastrukturelle Ausstattung, Skoda behandelt.", "start": 501.53, "end": 513.895 }, { "text": "Also das heißt, wie kriege ich überhaupt dann WLAN?", "start": 514.115, "end": 516.115 }, { "text": "Wie kriege ich das Ganze installiert?", "start": 516.115, "end": 517.395 }, { "text": "Und insbesondere die Frage, der ja, die im Digitalpakt immer so schwierig war, wer macht das Ganze dann?", "start": 517.395, "end": 522.04 }, { "text": "Wer installiert das?", "start": 522.04, "end": 523.08 } ], "start": 501.53, "end": 523.08, "num_words": 62.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wer wartet das?", "start": 523.08, "end": 523.8 }, { "text": "Wer sorgt das, für dass das funktioniert?", "start": 523.8, "end": 525.24 }, { "text": "Wer richtet Passwörter ein und so weiter und so weiter.", "start": 525.24, "end": 527.56 }, { "text": "Das war nicht unser Thema.", "start": 527.56, "end": 529.02 }, { "text": "Wir haben gesagt, was es dringend braucht, ist Bildungsplattformen.", "start": 529.24, "end": 532.7 } ], "start": 523.08, "end": 532.7, "num_words": 34.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir brauchen dringend zum Beispiel eine Plattform für Lehreraus- und Fortbildung, insbesondere den digitale Themen, wie den guten Umgang mit Daten beizubringen.", "start": 533.525, "end": 541.945 }, { "text": "Weil wenn wir die Lehrer nicht digital fortbilden, wie sollen die dann ihre Schüler digital fortbilden?", "start": 542.005, "end": 547.22504 }, { "text": "Und da geht's ja weit mehr als immer nur dieses Programmieren.", "start": 547.35, "end": 550.08997 }, { "text": "Da geht's auch weit mehr als Mediendidaktik.", "start": 550.38995, "end": 552.41 }, { "text": "Da geht es echtes Verständnis, weil Digitalisierung ist anders und prägt unser Leben.", "start": 552.70996, "end": 556.70996 } ], "start": 533.525, "end": 556.70996, "num_words": 69.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also Thema Lehrerplattform.", "start": 556.70996, "end": 557.76996 }, { "text": "Und da macht es natürlich Sinn, wenn ich von Plattformen rede, wir leben in Zeiten der Plattformökonomie, dann zu sagen, das macht jedes Bundesland oder jede Kommune oder sonst irgendwie für sehe ich, das macht ja keinen Sinn, das muss es doch zentral zur Verfügung gestellt werden.", "start": 558.06995, "end": 571.90497 }, { "text": "Und ja, dann kann man sagen, man macht so eine Art Up Store und dann kann auch wieder wettbewerbliche Aspekte reinbringen, dann können sich Leute darin bewerben, aber das schreit doch nach einem zentralen Angebot und umgekehrt, das kann ich nur sagen mit mit wir haben 3 Töchter und was wir alles mitgemacht haben an zig verschiedenen Tools, also ich hab mich glaub ich in 6 verschiedene Tools eingearbeitet, das ist dann natürlich auch Wahnsinn und Digitalisierung ist ein Plattformspiel und das bedeutet, dass Skalierung einfach Sinn macht und dass es darum geht, dann auch die Kosten runterzutreiben, die Usability hochzutreiben und da verstehe ich's Unser System, unser föderales System ist so nicht angelegt.", "start": 571.90497, "end": 606.61633 }, { "text": "Das soll Machtzentralisierung verhindern.", "start": 606.61633, "end": 606.63763 }, { "text": "Das war damals, als es geschaffen wurde, sicher richtig, Machtzentralisierung verhindern.", "start": 606.63763, "end": 609.5 } ], "start": 556.70996, "end": 609.5, "num_words": 179.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das war damals, als es geschaffen wurde, sicher richtig.", "start": 609.5, "end": 612.07996 }, { "text": "Aber passt das noch zum digitalen Zeitalter?", "start": 612.22, "end": 614.77997 }, { "text": "Und da glaube ich, nein, da passt es nicht mehr.", "start": 614.77997, "end": 617.12 } ], "start": 609.5, "end": 617.12, "num_words": 26.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Haben das inzwischen auch die Verantwortlichen verstanden in den Bundesministerien?", "start": 617.74, "end": 621.51996 }, { "text": "Es gibt ja auch diese Diskussion dieses zentrale Digitalministerium immer mal wieder.", "start": 622.53503, "end": 627.195 } ], "start": 617.74, "end": 627.195, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, das ist jetzt ja noch mal eine andere Frage.", "start": 628.055, "end": 629.97504 }, { "text": "Also zum Beispiel könnte das BMBF, also das Ministerium für Bildung und Forschung, das könnte ja eine Lehrerplattform anbieten.", "start": 629.97504, "end": 635.115 }, { "text": "Das hat ja erst mal gar nichts mit Digitalministerium zu tun, so wie ja jedes Ministerium seine eigenen Prozesse, seine Bürger- und Bürgerinnenangebote digitalisiert zur Verfügung stellen muss, vom Kindergeld bis zu Bildungsangeboten.", "start": 635.25, "end": 647.35 }, { "text": "Das Digitalministerium, das wär jetzt eine Zentralisierung innerhalb der Bundesregierung.", "start": 648.215, "end": 652.075 }, { "text": "Das ist ja sehr hitzig diskutiert worden.", "start": 653.09503, "end": 655.195 } ], "start": 628.055, "end": 655.195, "num_words": 79.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ich würde erst mal vor der Klammer wieder sagen, eine Reorganisation, und das hab ich in meinen vielen Jahren in der Beratung kennengelernt, das löst immer ein Problem und schafft immer ziemlich viele neue.", "start": 655.41504, "end": 664.15 }, { "text": "Also mit Reorganisation ist noch nicht noch nicht alles gelöst.", "start": 664.15, "end": 667.05 }, { "text": "Wir als Digitalrat, wir waren da auch sehr klar, dass wenn wir jetzt alle Digitalisierungsaufgaben, die die Bundesregierung hat, zentralisieren würden, dann werden wir weit zurückgeschmissen.", "start": 667.19, "end": 676.515 }, { "text": "Das kann es nicht sein.", "start": 676.895, "end": 678.015 }, { "text": "Also das wär vor vor 10 Jahren vielleicht richtig gewesen, aber das ist jetzt nicht mehr richtig.", "start": 678.015, "end": 682.255 } ], "start": 655.41504, "end": 682.255, "num_words": 92.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Aber es gibt heute in der Bundesregierung ein paar Lehrstellen.", "start": 682.255, "end": 685.715 }, { "text": "Also zum Beispiel die Frage, wer genau kümmert sich digitale Policy- und Zukunftsthemen, wie die Datenstrategie?", "start": 686.015, "end": 692.19 }, { "text": "Die hat das Kanzleramt federführend verantwortet.", "start": 692.49, "end": 694.83 }, { "text": "Das ist ja nicht so eigentlich der Bundesregierungset-up, weil es dort niemanden gab.", "start": 694.89, "end": 699.05 }, { "text": "Wer kümmert sich das Thema digitale Souveränität nach vorne zu treiben?", "start": 699.05, "end": 702.845 } ], "start": 682.255, "end": 702.845, "num_words": 56.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wer sorgt dafür, dass wir eine klare Stimme in Europa haben, wenn es an Digitalregulierung, DMA und DSA geht?", "start": 702.985, "end": 709.385 }, { "text": "Und diese Fragen, die müssen irgendwo gebündelt werden, die sind heute verstreut oder gar nicht behandelt, noch viel schlimmer.", "start": 709.385, "end": 715.08 }, { "text": "Und dann muss man überlegen, macht das Sinn, das in einem eigenen Ministerium zu bündeln?", "start": 715.24, "end": 718.68 }, { "text": "Macht das Sinn, das im Kanzleramt zu bündeln oder macht das Sinn, das in einem existierenden Ministerium zu bündeln?", "start": 718.68, "end": 723.9 }, { "text": "Das wiederum sind dann Fragen, die hängen natürlich vom Gesamtzuschnitt ab.", "start": 723.96, "end": 727.755 } ], "start": 702.985, "end": 727.755, "num_words": 83.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Aber es gibt 'n paar Fragen heute, die nicht gelöst sind, die hab ich grade gesagt und ich glaube, die gesamte Bundesverwaltung muss dringend schneller und besser werden, ihre eigenen Themen und Produkte zu digitalisieren.", "start": 728.075, "end": 739.455 }, { "text": "Und hier könnte auch letzte", "start": 739.515, "end": 741.2 } ], "start": 728.075, "end": 741.2, "num_words": 40.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Bundesregierung aus letzte Bundesregierung aus SPD, CDUCSU ist jetzt sozusagen am Ende.", "start": 751.82, "end": 757.275 }, { "text": "Wir warten auf die Ampelkoalition.", "start": 757.275, "end": 758.575 }, { "text": "Wird es jetzt wieder einen Digitalrat geben?", "start": 759.515, "end": 762.875 }, { "text": "Sitzen Sie sozusagen in Wartestellung grade auf halb 8 und warten, ob Sie angesprochen werden?", "start": 762.875, "end": 768.71 }, { "text": "Wie ist im Moment dieser Status quo, wie's weitergeht?", "start": 769.09, "end": 771.83 } ], "start": 751.82, "end": 771.83, "num_words": 48.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Na ja, der Status, wir sind per Kabinettsbeschluss 20 18 eingesetzt worden.", "start": 772.69, "end": 777.67 }, { "text": "Der hatte, wahrscheinlich weil man nicht dran gedacht hat, der hatte keine Auflösungsklausel.", "start": 777.865, "end": 781.005 }, { "text": "Also rein formal existieren wir noch, wir haben aber natürlich selbstverständlich gesagt, so wir wir machen jetzt keine Sitzung und wir unterstützen nur noch mit einem ganz Light Touch Modell laufende Projekte, die die sowieso noch weiterlaufen und ansonsten ist es jetzt natürlich Aufgabe der nächsten Bundesregierung zu überlegen, ob sie das wieder in einen Koalitionsvertrag oder in in welcher Form auch immer oder in 'ner gesetzlichen Form irgendeine Form verankern oder nicht und wie sie das tun.", "start": 781.78503, "end": 807.93506 }, { "text": "Und insofern also sind wir jetzt, haben wir unsere Aktivitäten so weit runtergefahren, wie sich das gehört.", "start": 807.93506, "end": 812.015 }, { "text": "Jetzt kommt eine neue Regierung und die muss für sich gestalten, wie sie regieren möchte.", "start": 812.015, "end": 815.79504 } ], "start": 772.69, "end": 815.79504, "num_words": 135.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Nun wissen wir, dass der wahrscheinlich künftige Bundeskanzler Olaf Scholz nach den Koalitionsverhandlungen immer im Auto zurückfährt, nach Potsdam.", "start": 816.49506, "end": 822.10004 }, { "text": "Da hat er ungefähr so 20 Minuten Zeit.", "start": 822.10004, "end": 824.44 }, { "text": "Das ist Zeit, unseren Podcast zu hören.", "start": 824.44, "end": 826.2 }, { "text": "Jetzt gehen wir mal davon aus, er hört uns grade zu.", "start": 826.2, "end": 828.7 }, { "text": "Er kommt von den Koalitionsverhandlungen zurück.", "start": 828.92, "end": 831.32 } ], "start": 816.49506, "end": 831.32, "num_words": 51.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Was könnten Sie denn ihm für ein Angebot machen?", "start": 831.32, "end": 833.6453 }, { "text": "Was würden Sie ihm gerne für ein Angebot machen, was die Form des Digitalrats angeht?", "start": 833.6453, "end": 834.12 }, { "text": "Ja, die Form des Digitalrats", "start": 834.12, "end": 837.815 } ], "start": 831.32, "end": 837.815, "num_words": 29.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "angeht?", "start": 839.315, "end": 839.795 }, { "text": "Der Digitalrat war 'n Experiment.", "start": 839.795, "end": 842.055 }, { "text": "Ich glaube, wir haben gelernt, was was wirklich gut und kraftvoll sein kann, dass wir Expertise hatten und dass wir alles Leute waren, die ganz konkret helfen wollten.", "start": 842.115, "end": 851.31 }, { "text": "Wir haben in vielen dieser 50 Maßnahmeninitiativen ganz konkret mit Unterstützung geholfen.", "start": 851.31, "end": 855.79004 }, { "text": "Wir haben zum Beispiel alle Staatssekretäre mal mit denen einen agilen Workshop gemacht, die Arbeitsmethoden näherzubringen.", "start": 855.79004, "end": 860.45 } ], "start": 839.315, "end": 860.45, "num_words": 62.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ich glaube, das ist ein Modell, ich sagen würde, das kann ich empfehlen, dass das funktioniert.", "start": 860.67, "end": 864.665 }, { "text": "Echte tatkräftige hilft von außen.", "start": 865.045, "end": 867.305 }, { "text": "Man muss die ihn aber natürlich weiterentwickeln.", "start": 867.365, "end": 869.385 }, { "text": "Das ist ja das mit Experimenten so ist ja auch die agile Arbeitsweise in den in den Review gehen, was hat geklappt, was hat nicht geklappt.", "start": 869.765, "end": 876.40497 }, { "text": "Zum Beispiel ist es uns sehr schwergefallen, in Ministerien reinzugehen und dort konkreter zu helfen und Projekte ganz konkret zu unterstützen, weil wir dafür Wir hatten keine Geschäftsstelle.", "start": 876.40497, "end": 885.98004 } ], "start": 860.67, "end": 885.98004, "num_words": 82.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Es war auch eine gute Entscheidung zunächst keine Geschäftsstelle zu haben, damit wir schlank bleiben in Strukturen und keine Overhead Kosten und Strukturen schaffen.", "start": 885.98004, "end": 892.515 }, { "text": "Aber dort noch mal klug nachzudenken, wie schafft man eigentlich das sozusagen Mainstream, also das in die Breite bringen dieser vielen und nicht ganz einfachen digitalen Themen und wie kann man in der Breite unterstützen, antreiben und auch Fragen stellen?", "start": 892.675, "end": 905.49005 }, { "text": "Das ist sicher was, da lohnt sich's, drüber nachzudenken.", "start": 905.49005, "end": 907.51 }, { "text": "Und da können wir gerne helfen.", "start": 907.65, "end": 908.93005 }, { "text": "Wir haben gesagt, wir helfen in der Übergabe und teilen unsere Erfahrungen gerne mit.", "start": 908.93005, "end": 913.03 } ], "start": 885.98004, "end": 913.03, "num_words": 93.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Katrin Suder, ganz herzlichen Dank für das Gespräch.", "start": 913.73004, "end": 916.53 }, { "text": "Es war sehr spannend.", "start": 916.53, "end": 917.33 }, { "text": "Wir hoffen, wir hören noch viel von Ihnen.", "start": 917.33, "end": 919.43005 } ], "start": 913.73004, "end": 919.43005, "num_words": 20.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, bitte.", "start": 919.65, "end": 920.39 } ], "start": 919.65, "end": 920.39, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 1 } ] }, "entities": null, "translations": null, "topics": null } ], "detected_language": "" } ], "utterances": [ { "start": 6.96, "end": 10.099999, "confidence": 0.95496964, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Und damit ein herzliches Willkommen zu unserem neuen Podcast.", "words": [ { "word": "und", "start": 6.96, "end": 7.2, "confidence": 0.96240234, "punctuated_word": "Und", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.80190223 }, { "word": "damit", "start": 7.2, "end": 7.52, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "damit", 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Was war das? Was was wollten Sie? 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Das war die eine Handbedingung und die zweite war, ich wollte ein hochgradig diverses Team. Ich glaube an die Kraft von diversen Teams, dass die bessere Lösungen entwickeln, das ist nicht immer einfach. Da passiert auch mal Reibung und Streit, aber ich glaub daran und dieses Team ist ja dann auch sehr, sehr divers geworden. 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Also insofern eine eine gemischte Bilanz.", "words": [ { "word": "einfach", "start": 307.01, "end": 307.25, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "einfach", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6772016 }, { "word": "noch", "start": 307.25, "end": 307.33002, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "noch", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6772016 }, { "word": "gar", "start": 307.33002, "end": 307.57, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "gar", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6772016 }, { "word": "nicht", "start": 307.57, "end": 307.73, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "nicht", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6772016 }, { "word": "angegangen", "start": 307.73, "end": 308.05002, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "angegangen", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6772016 }, { "word": "worden", "start": 308.05002, "end": 308.29, "confidence": 0.93774414, "punctuated_word": "worden.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6772016 }, { "word": "also", "start": 308.29, "end": 308.53, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Also", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6772016 }, { "word": "insofern", "start": 308.53, "end": 309.03, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "insofern", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6772016 }, { "word": "eine", "start": 309.09, "end": 309.25, "confidence": 0.9135742, "punctuated_word": "eine", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6772016 }, { "word": "eine", "start": 309.25, "end": 309.49002, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "eine", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6772016 }, { "word": "gemischte", "start": 309.49002, "end": 309.97, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "gemischte", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6772016 }, { "word": "bilanz", "start": 309.97, "end": 310.47, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Bilanz.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6772016 } ], "speaker": 1, "id": "30548163-4438-4824-ad35-f2b9063657cb" }, { "start": 310.93002, "end": 314.39, "confidence": 0.94125164, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Mhm. Lassen Sie uns über die Bilanz mal 'n bisschen sprechen. Was hat sie denn da eher unglücklich gemacht? Was hat sie glücklich gemacht an dem, was umgesetzt wurde? 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Na ja, einmal vor der Klammer muss man natürlich sagen, wir wären nicht dieser Digitalrat mit all den Menschen, die da drin sind, wenn wir mit dem Tempo zufrieden sein könnten. 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Das soll Machtzentralisierung verhindern. Das war damals, als es geschaffen wurde, sicher richtig,", "words": [ { "word": "unser", "start": 605.235, "end": 605.395, "confidence": 0.5493164, "punctuated_word": "Unser", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.64007914 }, { "word": "system", "start": 605.395, "end": 605.635, "confidence": 0.9111328, "punctuated_word": "System,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.64007914 }, { "word": "unser", "start": 605.635, "end": 605.955, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "unser", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.64007914 }, { "word": "föderales", "start": 605.955, "end": 606.435, "confidence": 0.99365234, "punctuated_word": "föderales", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.64007914 }, { "word": "system", "start": 606.435, "end": 606.595, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "System", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.64007914 }, { "word": "ist", "start": 606.595, "end": 606.6003, "confidence": 0.92089844, "punctuated_word": "ist", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "so", "start": 606.6003, "end": 606.60565, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "so", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "nicht", "start": 606.60565, "end": 606.61096, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "nicht", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "angelegt", "start": 606.61096, "end": 606.61633, "confidence": 0.7807617, "punctuated_word": "angelegt.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "das", "start": 606.61633, "end": 606.62164, "confidence": 0.59716797, "punctuated_word": "Das", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "soll", "start": 606.62164, "end": 606.62695, "confidence": 0.9863281, "punctuated_word": "soll", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "machtzentralisierung", "start": 606.62695, "end": 606.6323, "confidence": 0.9007161, "punctuated_word": "Machtzentralisierung", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "verhindern", "start": 606.6323, "end": 606.63763, "confidence": 0.9169922, "punctuated_word": "verhindern.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "das", "start": 606.63763, "end": 606.643, "confidence": 0.88671875, "punctuated_word": "Das", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "war", "start": 606.643, "end": 606.6483, "confidence": 0.82373047, "punctuated_word": "war", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "damals", "start": 606.6483, "end": 606.6536, "confidence": 0.7766113, "punctuated_word": "damals,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "als", "start": 606.6536, "end": 606.659, "confidence": 0.8408203, "punctuated_word": "als", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "es", "start": 606.659, "end": 606.6643, "confidence": 0.8364258, "punctuated_word": "es", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "geschaffen", "start": 606.6643, "end": 606.6697, "confidence": 0.7597656, "punctuated_word": "geschaffen", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "wurde", "start": 606.6697, "end": 606.675, "confidence": 0.9890137, "punctuated_word": "wurde,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "sicher", "start": 606.675, "end": 607.175, "confidence": 0.96777344, "punctuated_word": "sicher", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 }, { "word": "richtig", "start": 607.235, "end": 607.735, "confidence": 0.7302246, "punctuated_word": "richtig,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.44234395 } ], "speaker": 1, "id": "e5f45e19-484c-4a64-83d1-b0f2a094107e" }, { "start": 608.22, "end": 617.12, "confidence": 0.9837182, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Machtzentralisierung verhindern. Das war damals, als es geschaffen wurde, sicher richtig. Aber passt das noch zum digitalen Zeitalter? 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Also zum Beispiel könnte das BMBF, also das Ministerium für Bildung und Forschung, das könnte ja eine Lehrerplattform anbieten. 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Das ist ja nicht so eigentlich der Bundesregierungset-up,", "words": [ { "word": "verantwortet", "start": 694.33, "end": 694.83, "confidence": 0.85530597, "punctuated_word": "verantwortet.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "das", "start": 694.89, "end": 695.05, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Das", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "ist", "start": 695.05, "end": 695.21, "confidence": 0.9951172, "punctuated_word": "ist", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "ja", "start": 695.21, "end": 695.37, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ja", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "nicht", "start": 695.37, "end": 695.61, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "nicht", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "so", "start": 695.61, "end": 696.01, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "so", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "eigentlich", "start": 696.01, "end": 696.33, "confidence": 0.984375, "punctuated_word": "eigentlich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "der", "start": 696.33, "end": 696.57, "confidence": 0.9873047, "punctuated_word": "der", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "bundesregierungset-up", "start": 696.57, "end": 697.07, "confidence": 0.8134068, "punctuated_word": "Bundesregierungset-up,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 } ], "speaker": 1, "id": "7ea73abb-012a-40c5-a9ef-8e8b454bb3a9" }, { "start": 697.77, "end": 701.23004, "confidence": 0.99745685, "channel": 0, "transcript": "weil es dort niemanden gab. Wer kümmert sich das Thema digitale Souveränität", "words": [ { "word": "weil", "start": 697.77, "end": 697.93, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "weil", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "es", "start": 697.93, "end": 698.17, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "es", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "dort", "start": 698.17, "end": 698.41003, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "dort", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "niemanden", "start": 698.41003, "end": 698.73004, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "niemanden", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "gab", "start": 698.73004, "end": 699.05, "confidence": 0.9753418, "punctuated_word": "gab.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "wer", "start": 699.05, "end": 699.29004, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Wer", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "kümmert", "start": 699.29004, "end": 699.53, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "kümmert", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "sich", "start": 699.53, "end": 699.69, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "sich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6423231 }, { "word": "das", "start": 699.85004, "end": 700.01, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "das", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.578631 }, { "word": "thema", "start": 700.01, "end": 700.41003, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Thema", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.578631 }, { "word": "digitale", "start": 700.41003, "end": 700.73004, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "digitale", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.578631 }, { "word": "souveränität", "start": 700.73004, "end": 701.23004, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "Souveränität", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.578631 } ], "speaker": 1, "id": "fea07789-23b0-417b-aed5-2a6ca206115d" }, { "start": 701.705, "end": 707.405, "confidence": 0.98796433, "channel": 0, "transcript": "nach vorne zu treiben? Wer sorgt dafür, dass wir eine klare Stimme in Europa haben, wenn es an Digitalregulierung,", "words": [ { "word": "nach", "start": 701.705, "end": 701.945, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "nach", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.578631 }, { "word": "vorne", "start": 701.945, "end": 702.105, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "vorne", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.578631 }, { "word": "zu", "start": 702.105, "end": 702.345, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "zu", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.578631 }, { "word": "treiben", "start": 702.345, "end": 702.845, "confidence": 0.9633789, "punctuated_word": "treiben?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.578631 }, { "word": "wer", "start": 702.985, "end": 703.485, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Wer", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.578631 }, { "word": "sorgt", "start": 703.705, "end": 704.025, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "sorgt", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.578631 }, { "word": "dafür", "start": 704.025, "end": 704.345, "confidence": 0.99853516, "punctuated_word": "dafür,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.578631 }, { "word": "dass", "start": 704.345, "end": 704.505, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "dass", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.578631 }, { "word": "wir", "start": 704.505, "end": 704.745, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "wir", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.46761167 }, { "word": "eine", "start": 704.745, "end": 704.905, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "eine", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.46761167 }, { "word": "klare", "start": 704.905, "end": 705.305, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "klare", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.46761167 }, { "word": "stimme", "start": 705.305, "end": 705.465, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Stimme", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.46761167 }, { "word": "in", "start": 705.465, "end": 705.705, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "in", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.46761167 }, { "word": "europa", "start": 705.705, "end": 706.025, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Europa", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.46761167 }, { "word": "haben", "start": 706.025, "end": 706.345, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "haben,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.46761167 }, { "word": "wenn", "start": 706.345, "end": 706.505, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "wenn", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.46761167 }, { "word": "es", "start": 706.505, "end": 706.665, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "es", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6504539 }, { "word": "an", "start": 706.665, "end": 706.905, "confidence": 0.9370117, "punctuated_word": "an", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6504539 }, { "word": "digitalregulierung", "start": 706.905, "end": 707.405, "confidence": 0.8782552, "punctuated_word": "Digitalregulierung,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6504539 } ], "speaker": 1, "id": "d9ac7c4d-cd45-4b61-bfa8-0d5b316f173f" }, { "start": 707.945, "end": 733.855, "confidence": 0.9724619, "channel": 0, "transcript": "DMA und DSA geht? Und diese Fragen, die müssen irgendwo gebündelt werden, die sind heute verstreut oder gar nicht behandelt, noch viel schlimmer. Und dann muss man überlegen, macht das Sinn, das in einem eigenen Ministerium zu bündeln? Macht das Sinn, das im Kanzleramt zu bündeln oder macht das Sinn, das in einem existierenden Ministerium zu bündeln? Das wiederum sind dann Fragen, die hängen natürlich vom Gesamtzuschnitt ab. Aber es gibt 'n paar Fragen heute, die nicht gelöst sind, die hab ich grade gesagt und ich glaube, die gesamte Bundesverwaltung", "words": [ { "word": "dma", "start": 707.945, "end": 708.265, "confidence": 0.9909668, "punctuated_word": "DMA", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6504539 }, { "word": "und", "start": 708.265, "end": 708.505, "confidence": 0.9790039, "punctuated_word": "und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6504539 }, { "word": "dsa", "start": 708.505, "end": 708.985, "confidence": 0.97509766, "punctuated_word": "DSA", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6504539 }, { "word": "geht", "start": 708.985, "end": 709.385, "confidence": 0.9069824, "punctuated_word": "geht?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6504539 }, { "word": "und", "start": 709.385, "end": 709.625, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "Und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6504539 }, { "word": "diese", "start": 709.625, "end": 709.865, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "diese", 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Wir haben zum Beispiel alle Staatssekretäre mal mit denen einen agilen Workshop gemacht, die Arbeitsmethoden näherzubringen. 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Es war auch eine gute Entscheidung zunächst keine Geschäftsstelle zu haben, damit wir schlank bleiben in Strukturen und keine Overhead Kosten und Strukturen schaffen. Aber dort noch mal klug nachzudenken, wie schafft man eigentlich das sozusagen Mainstream, also das in die Breite bringen dieser vielen und nicht ganz einfachen digitalen Themen und wie kann man in der Breite unterstützen, antreiben und auch Fragen stellen? Das ist sicher was, da lohnt sich's, drüber nachzudenken. Und da können wir gerne helfen. 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