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Ci sono I videogiochi come Fortnite o Roblocks che hanno già una loro versione del metaverso in cui gli utenti vivono, giocano, parlano, fanno acquisti, si innamorano, litigano furiosamente con o senza caschi per la realtà virtuale. Ci sono aziende storiche come Microsoft che soprattutto in campo lavorativo hanno già ingranato la marcia e procedono spedite verso la smaterializzazione delle riunioni e la condivisione degli spazi virtuali ma probabilmente chi più sta investendo nel metaverso sia a livello economico che di immagine è Meta l'azienda che l'anno scorso cambiato nome per segnalare questo cambio di paradigma Facebook esiste ancora ed è affiancato da Instagram, da Whatsapp e soprattutto dal business pubblicitario che continua a macinare ricavi Eppure Max Zuckerberg deciso che I prossimi 10 anni saranno dedicati soprattutto a sviluppare questo nuovo mondo che lui considera il prossimo salto tecnologico. Quali sono stati gli altri salti tecnologici degli ultimi anni? L'arrivo di internet, la nascita dei social network e il passaggio dal desktop al mobile. Secondo lui il futuro è nel metaverso e di questo oggi parleremo con Angelo Mazzetti capo della public policy di Meta per l'Italia, la Grecia, Malta e Cipro. Bentornati a Tecnopolicy e benvenuto ad Angelo Mazzetti. Grazie. Grazie di essere con noi. Grazie a voi dell'invito. La prima domanda che facciamo sempre ai nostri ospiti è una domanda che consegniamo ai nostri ospiti e dunque lasciamo loro la presentazione. Come 6 arrivato a fare quello che fai oggi e qual è stato il tuo percorso fino a qui? Allora sono arrivato come spesso come spesso capita con una traiettoria non lineare. Lo diciamo e leggiamo spesso che la crescita non è un percorso non è una linea retta assomiglia molto di più a un groviglio di cose, di interessi, di passioni, di esperienze, di persone che incontri e che in qualche modo ti arricchiscono e provano a guidarti. Per me è stato così. Io ero, sono e spero ancora di essere considerato un ragazzo che cercava di fare tantissime cose il più possibile. Io avevo una mia startup che si occupava di vendita, di cibo italiano con piccolissime produzioni e che veniva venduto online. Organizzavo degli eventi tramite un comitato promotore, organizzavo una serie di TEDx, quindi il formato in franchising della più famosa conferenza TED. E come parte di queste di mi sono vicino sempre di più al mondo della tecnologia, al mondo delle istituzioni. Ad un certo punto ho visto una posizione che era aperta in Italia su Facebook, ho fatto application, ho fatto 8 colloqui, tra l'altro durante l'estate, durissimi, e alla fine sono entrato e poi da lì all'interno dell'azienda, come sai, come sapete cambiato nome. Non si chiama più Facebook, si chiama Meta e in questi 6 anni ho affrontato tantissime sfide e ho visto anche l'azienda modificarsi in maniera estremamente significativa crescere e devo dire che non c'è stato un momento in cui non ci siamo divertiti o non siamo stati impegnati. Ecco Meta, adesso l'anno scorso c'è stato questo cambio diciamo di strada e di strategia per la vostra azienda e l'obiettivo è costruire il metaverso o costruire uno dei Metaversi che esisteranno nel futuro delle nostre vite. Ecco, qual è l'impegno di Meta e qual è l'obiettivo di Meta nella costruzione del Metaverso? Quale idea l'azienda nella costruzione di questo nuovo mondo? Allora iniziamo cercando di chiarire che cosa intendiamo con la parola Metaverso, almeno noi diciamo I Meta. Per noi il metaverso non è nient'altro che il futuro di internet. Cioè rappresenta quell'insieme di tecnologie, noi speriamo quella piattaforma unica, interoperabile, connessa e aperta che ci darà la possibilità tramite delle tecnologie più immersive di vivere al meglio, di vivere meglio, di prendere più opportunità da esperienze digitali che noi già facciamo oggi. Faccio un esempio, insomma. Noi tante volte ci siamo parlati magari in videoconferenza. Tutti noi in questi ultimi 2 anni l'abbiamo fatto su base quotidiana. È un qualcosa che tanti facevano anche prima di questa pandemia. Tantissimi tutti l'hanno dovuto affrontare nel corso della pandemia, oggi fa parte della nostra quotidianità. Tu oggi da remoto puoi fare un evento, puoi parlare con un tuo caro, puoi seguire un evento sportivo, insomma puoi fare tantissime attività. La differenza però è che non condividi uno spazio con le persone con cui ti stai connettendo. La tua esperienza, la tua interazione è sempre intermediata da uno schermo. 6 nel tuo spazio e nel tuo luogo che quindi non condividi con la persona o con le persone che stai parlando. Diciamo che la differenza, prendo questo come esempio, delle tecnologie immersive come per esempio la realtà virtuale è che ti dà invece la possibilità di vivere comunque un'esperienza di connessione da remoto, in cui si supera la necessità di una presenza fisica, ma allo stesso tempo hai la possibilità di una percezione di presenza, non fisica chiaramente, virtuale, che ti dà la possibilità di condivisione spaziale e di conseguenza di interazione differente, più forte, con tutte quelle possibilità che hai quando effettivamente ti ritrovi nello stare con una persona nello stesso luogo. Body Language, se si è in più di una persona la possibilità di parlare solo con uno piuttosto che con un altro, che con un altro dei partecipanti. Insomma la caratteristica principale sarà quella della presenza. E noi insomma chiaramente ci stiamo facendo una scommessa molto forte, gli investimenti credo parlino da soli. Nel corso del 2021 abbiamo investito oltre 10000000000 di dollari in questo progetto. Crediamo rappresenti il futuro di internet, un ecosistema che sarà destinato a crescere. Insomma ci sono degli studi che ci dicono che nei prossimi 10 anni potrà arrivare a valere circa il 2.8 por 100 del PIL mondiale, il metaverso ovviamente con tutto il suo indotto. In questo momento ci troviamo nella fase in cui ci trovavamo all'inizio degli anni 90 con internet. Cioè c'erano le tecnologie di base, si percepiva l'utilizzo e l'utilità che quelle tecnologie avrebbero potuto portare alla nostra vita quotidiana, all'economia, ma siamo ancora in una fase embrionale, di crescita, in cui gli utilizzi e le prospettive verranno resi più evidenti e ce ne accorgeremo nel corso dei prossimi 10-quindici anni. Quindi questa è un pochino la prospettiva. Bene, chiaro. Quello che molti si chiedono è però come in particolare Meta intende affrontare una serie di rischi e una serie di preoccupazioni che sono legate al metaverso come ad esempio renderlo sicuro, creare anche dei centri di responsabilità per quello che avviene nel metaverso e poi anche come fare a creare una collaborazione anche con gli altri soggetti che ci saranno coinvolti perché ovviamente ci sono altre grandi aziende, altre istituzioni, altri player, chiamiamoli così in generale, che si affacciano nel Metaverso stanno cercando anche loro di costruire delle soluzioni in questo senso e quindi qual è la vostra forma da una parte di responsabilizzazione e dall'altra di collaborazione? Certo, allora partiamo da una premessa generale e cioè che il metaverso per avere successo e per essere utilizzato da centinaia di milioni di persone come speriamo e come crediamo questo succederà nei prossimi anni deve essere una piattaforma nella quale le persone si sentono al sicuro. Si sentono a proprio agio, che vogliono utilizzare, che trovano utili chiaramente, che porti vantaggi economici e per fare, per avere tutte queste caratteristiche chiaramente si deve fare in modo in questa fase di design, di formazione e di costruzione della tecnologia che ovviamente lo si faccia pensando a queste priorità e quindi chiaramente la sicurezza è una di queste, fondamentale e trasversale. Secondo me abbiamo una grandissima opportunità. No, parlavamo prima della prospettiva di 1015 anni. Siamo in una fase embrionale di sviluppo della tecnologia e di utilizzo da parte delle persone. Bene abbiamo questa opportunità di, ed è in parte quello che già stiamo facendo, anche in queste discussioni, di sviluppare un dibattito pubblico con istituzioni, esperti, accademici, aziende, utenti, consumatori per fare in modo di scrivere dall'inizio le regole dello sviluppo di questo Metaverso e per fare in modo che sia una piattaforma sicura. La tecnologia spessissimo va più veloce delle regole che il legislatore e le istituzioni riescono a scrivere. L'abbiamo visto sicuramente con internet, dove le regolamentazioni più forti sono arrivate dopo trent'anni di sviluppo globale di internet e dove I legislatori e l'esperto dovuto inseguire l'utilizzo della tecnologia che si modificava velocemente. Bene, secondo me qui abbiamo l'opportunità di fare esattamente l'opposto, di guidare lo sviluppo di questa tecnologia e di non farci prendere in contropiede dalla dalla da un utilizzo che poi crediamo nei prossimi anni sarà più basso. Quindi questo è il primo punto della grandissima opportunità il secondo è che dobbiamo avere delle regole chiare in testa sulle quali costruire questo dibattito. Il primo chiaramente si può partire da regolamentazioni di internet di oggi e in qualche modo traslarle all'interno di un contesto di tecnologie più immersive chiaramente non potranno essere sovrapponibili perché le utilizzi saranno differenti. Però insomma quello della protezione dei dati credo sia una di queste regolamentazioni dalle quali partire, quindi bisogna partire nel costruire il metaverso con la logica di minimizzazione dell'utilizzo dei dati, di trasparenza, di controllo da parte dell'utente. Il secondo aspetto è quello della sicurezza, e la sicurezza della persona anche all'interno di questa piattaforma, all'interno del metaverso. L'esempio famoso e citato nel corso degli ultimi mesi è un qualcosa che impareremo nel corso delle settimane, è quello del controllo aggiuntivo tecnologico che è stato inserito per gli avatar che si chiama controlla il tuo spazio a seguito di un caso di arrassment che c'era stato all'interno di un incontro tra diversi avatar e quindi la risposta tecnologica chiaramente può essere una soluzione e si costruirà nel corso degli anni. Deve essere chiaramente inclusivo, questa è l'altra grande sfida che abbiamo davanti nel design di queste tecnologie, bisogna tenere in considerazione diversi utilizzi che potranno essere fatti e poi dovrà essere aperto ed interoperabile perché esattamente come oggi non esiste un internet solo di Google, un internet di Apple, un internet di Microsoft e così via, ma tu puoi passare da una piattaforma, tu utente puoi passare all'interno dello stesso protocollo, stessa tecnologia di base da una piattaforma all'altra e quindi avere una pluralità di servizi che possano servire alla tua vita, al miglioramento sulla tua vita quotidiana, sociale, economica, eccetera, esattamente allo stesso modo il metaverso dovrà avere una serie di possibilità, di esperienze e di servizi che chiaramente si devono parlare tra loro e quindi l'interoperabilità rimarrà una chiave. Chiarissimo. Dunque questo sarà un argomento veramente interessante perché ovviamente sull'interoperabilità alcuni standard di internet nascevano quando ancora internet non aveva un'applicazione commerciale così forte come avuto dopo e quindi dal TCPIP in poi c'era stata una serie di prima studi accademici o legati alla difesa o legati all'internet pre era commerciale e poi c'è stata l'evoluzione commerciale e quindi di questo standard comune hanno potuto beneficiare tutti in un secondo momento. Adesso la sfida sarà cercare di capire di mettere d'accordo una serie di grandi realtà che ovviamente hanno degli interessi che possono confliggere e che possono andare in direzioni diverse anche semplicemente. La domanda sull'applicazione del metaverso ovvero nel mondo del lavoro, nel mondo dell'accademia, nel mondo dell'industria quali sono degli utilizzi di cui potranno beneficiare in particolare a livello lavorativo? Perché è una delle domande principali perché Facebook e Meta sono stati da una parte una grandissima piattaforma privata, nel senso di vita privata, e dall'altra sono diventate anche un grande strumento per aziende, per farsi conoscere, per fare marketing, per arrivare a un pubblico molto più vasto magari di quello che potevano raggiungere. Quindi secondo me c'è anche una grande domanda da parte delle imprese e questo è un po' anche il tema del nostro podcast. Come cambia la prospettiva per un'azienda nel metaverso? Quali sono le strade che potrà prendere? Quali sono gli strumenti che potrà avere per garantire un maggiore coinvolgimento dei clienti, dei partner o delle istituzioni? Assolutamente, allora io credo che questa come dicevamo prima è una cosa che vedremo nei prossimi anni, come si svilupperà e che tipo di utilizzo verrà fatto, esattamente come Facebook era nato all'interno di un campus universitario, per mettere in contatto delle persone in uno spazio comunque sociale già circoscritto e poi si è trasformato nella principale piattaforma internazionale di investimento pubblicitario per le piccole e medie imprese. Oggi sono circa 10000000 che investono su Facebook per raggiungere I propri clienti e che quindi comprato tutta una serie di questioni, chiaramente l'abbassamento delle barriere d'ingresso in determinati mercati, dei costi pubblicitari, eccetera, di internazionalizzazione. È un qualcosa che si è creato con lo sviluppo della piattaforma, ma io credo che nello stesso modo vedremo uno sviluppo del metaverso in questo senso. Pensando agli ambiti di applicazione però, io credo che potremo avere, possiamo avere degli indizi in un qualche modo, no? Di quali possono essere potenzialmente le aree di maggior sviluppo. Allora, al di là del tanto citato e già affermato mondo del gaming con questa tecnologia che però rappresenta solo un pezzettino embrionale dello sviluppo della piattaforma, io credo in altri settori sarà molto importante e già ne vediamo tanti utilizzi come per esempio quello della sanità. Il mondo della formazione in varie forme che chiaramente è trasversale non solamente diciamo della formazione scolastica primaria che sicuramente potrà portare dei benefici in termini di azzeramento della necessità di presenza fisica quando chiaramente non è possibile essere presenti fisicamente perché questo credo sia un'altra cosa importante da sottolineare credo non ci sia niente di meglio di avere un'interazione di persona. Stiamo pensando a questa tecnologia come complementare, non sostitutiva della realtà. Comunque il tema della formazione credo sia molto importante, il mondo della cultura. Il mondo della cultura che tra l'altro già avuto tantissimi esempi è la possibilità di avere una presenza immersiva all'interno di contenuti culturali che tu prima eri abituato a fruire esclusivamente da spettatore e quasi mai da interprete nel senso del chiaramente il contenuto culturale c'è chi lo crea ma un ruolo molto specifico e c'è chi lo fruisce. Nel metaverso avrai la possibilità di potenzialmente interpretare entrambi I ruoli nello stesso momento e quindi credo anche lì si aprirà una possibilità estremamente importante. Tra l'altro qui in Italia insieme a Tim abbiamo inaugurato la loro ricostruzione in realtà virtuale del mausoleo di Augusto. Tra l'altro con il nostro fondatore Mark Zuckerberg e veramente la possibilità di camminare e di ricostruire 2000 anni di storia di un pezzo della città e di un monumento come il Mausoleo di Augusto ti dà questa possibilità di correre tra le epoche e ti dà veramente la percezione delle potenzialità dello strumento. E poi l'ultimo, il lavoro da remoto e la presenza da remoto, dove su questo già stiamo vedendo tantissime applicazioni. Noi abbiamo sviluppato questa piattaforma che si chiama Workrooms, che ti dà la possibilità di avere esattamente un incontro come questo o intorno a un tavolo o insomma in diversi setting di presentazione o altro, con un numero molto alto di partecipanti dove tu in diverse parti del mondo ti trovi però e ti ritrovi intorno alla stessa alla stessa tavola e hai quel tipo di interazione fisica che stiamo avendo io e te in questo momento ma con delle tecnologie chiaramente di riproduzione di una realtà virtuale. Bene, chiarissimo. L'ultima domanda che facciamo ai nostri ospiti è legata a un consiglio: cioè gli chiediamo di darci un'idea, un personaggio, un libro, un profilo Twitter, qualcuno da seguire per capire di più del tema del giorno, del tema della puntata e dunque del metaverso. Chi ci consigli? Allora io vi consiglio un personaggio che è noto, probabilmente non avrete bisogno del mio consiglio per conoscerlo, che è Matthew Bolt. Matthew Ball, che vi consiglio una cosa che già fatto e una cosa che uscirà. Una cosa che già fatto è una audiochat, di fatto un podcast che potete trovare sul suo sito o facendo una ricerca con Zuckerberg, con Mark Zuckerberg, parlando proprio della prospettiva del metaverso in cui si capisce un pochino meglio qual è la nostra visione, sicuramente meglio di quanto non abbia fatto io in questa chiacchierata. E una cosa che invece riuscirà, uscirà nel corso dell'estate che sarà si chiama The Meraverse un suo libro, un suo libro che rappresenterà secondo me uno di quelle pietre miliari di divulgazione di questa tecnologia e di questa piattaforma il cui nome è utilizzato tantissimo, ma di cui diciamo non sempre se ne capiscono I contorni nel dibattito pubblico. Perfetto, Matthewball che anche un sito che è Matthewball. Vc perché adesso lui è un venture capitalis dopo aver avuto una serie di esperienze anche con varie aziende tra cui Amazon eccetera e sicuramente un sito dove analizza una serie di grandi temi con dei paper approfonditi e l'ultima sua specializzazione è quella del Metaverso e sicuramente questo libro sarà un punto di partenza per capire dove andremo in questo settore. Grazie ancora ad Angelo Mazzetti. Grazie a voi, grazie a te Giorgio. 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La buona notizia è che nessuno può sapere cosa sarà il metaverso perché si tratta di un mondo o di mondi in cui saremo immersi davvero solo fra 5 o 10 anni. Nel frattempo però possiamo iniziare a capire come si muovono I principali attori in questo spazio. Ci sono I videogiochi come Fortnite o Roblocks che hanno già una loro versione del metaverso in cui gli utenti vivono, giocano, parlano, fanno acquisti, si innamorano, litigano furiosamente con o senza caschi per la realtà virtuale. Ci sono aziende storiche come Microsoft che soprattutto in campo lavorativo hanno già ingranato la marcia e procedono spedite verso la smaterializzazione delle riunioni e la condivisione degli spazi virtuali ma probabilmente chi più sta investendo nel metaverso sia a livello economico che di immagine è Meta l'azienda che l'anno scorso cambiato nome per segnalare questo cambio di paradigma Facebook esiste ancora ed è affiancato da Instagram, da Whatsapp e soprattutto dal business pubblicitario che continua a macinare ricavi Eppure Max Zuckerberg deciso che I prossimi 10 anni saranno dedicati soprattutto a sviluppare questo nuovo mondo che lui considera il prossimo salto tecnologico.\n\nQuali sono stati gli altri salti tecnologici degli ultimi anni? L'arrivo di internet, la nascita dei social network e il passaggio dal desktop al mobile. Secondo lui il futuro è nel metaverso e di questo oggi parleremo con Angelo Mazzetti capo della public policy di Meta per l'Italia, la Grecia, Malta e Cipro. Bentornati a Tecnopolicy e benvenuto ad Angelo Mazzetti. Grazie.\n\nGrazie di\n\nSpeaker 1: essere con noi. Grazie a voi dell'invito.\n\nSpeaker 0: La prima domanda che facciamo sempre ai nostri ospiti è una domanda che consegniamo ai nostri ospiti e dunque lasciamo loro la presentazione. Come 6 arrivato a fare quello che fai oggi e qual è stato il tuo percorso fino a qui?\n\nSpeaker 1: Allora sono arrivato come spesso come spesso capita con una traiettoria non lineare. Lo diciamo e leggiamo spesso che la crescita non è un percorso non è una linea retta assomiglia molto di più a un groviglio di cose, di interessi, di passioni, di esperienze, di persone che incontri e che in qualche modo ti arricchiscono e provano a guidarti. Per me è stato così. Io ero, sono e spero ancora di essere considerato un ragazzo che cercava di fare tantissime cose il più possibile. Io avevo una mia startup che si occupava di vendita, di cibo italiano con piccolissime produzioni e che veniva venduto online.\n\nOrganizzavo degli eventi tramite un comitato promotore, organizzavo una serie di TEDx, quindi il formato in franchising della più famosa conferenza TED. E come parte di queste di mi sono vicino sempre di più al mondo della tecnologia, al mondo delle istituzioni. Ad un certo punto ho visto una posizione che era aperta in Italia su Facebook, ho fatto application, ho fatto 8 colloqui, tra l'altro durante l'estate, durissimi, e alla fine sono entrato e poi da lì all'interno dell'azienda, come sai, come sapete cambiato nome. Non si chiama più Facebook, si chiama Meta e in questi 6 anni ho affrontato tantissime sfide e ho visto anche l'azienda modificarsi in maniera estremamente significativa crescere e devo dire che non c'è stato un momento in cui non ci siamo divertiti o non siamo\n\nSpeaker 0: stati impegnati. Ecco Meta, adesso l'anno scorso c'è stato questo cambio diciamo di strada e di strategia per la vostra azienda e l'obiettivo è costruire il metaverso o costruire uno dei Metaversi che esisteranno nel futuro delle nostre vite. Ecco, qual è l'impegno di Meta e qual è l'obiettivo di Meta nella costruzione del Metaverso? Quale idea l'azienda nella costruzione di questo nuovo mondo? Allora iniziamo\n\nSpeaker 1: cercando di chiarire che cosa intendiamo con la parola Metaverso, almeno noi diciamo I Meta. Per noi il metaverso non è nient'altro che il futuro di internet. Cioè rappresenta quell'insieme di tecnologie, noi speriamo quella piattaforma unica, interoperabile, connessa e aperta che ci darà la possibilità tramite delle tecnologie più immersive di vivere al meglio, di vivere meglio, di prendere più opportunità da esperienze digitali che noi già facciamo oggi. Faccio un esempio, insomma. Noi tante volte ci siamo parlati magari in videoconferenza.\n\nTutti noi in questi ultimi 2 anni l'abbiamo fatto su base quotidiana. È un qualcosa che tanti facevano anche prima di questa pandemia. Tantissimi tutti l'hanno dovuto affrontare nel corso della pandemia, oggi fa parte della nostra quotidianità. Tu oggi da remoto puoi fare un evento, puoi parlare con un tuo caro, puoi seguire un evento sportivo, insomma puoi fare tantissime attività. La differenza però è che non condividi uno spazio con le persone con cui ti stai connettendo.\n\nLa tua esperienza, la tua interazione è sempre intermediata da uno schermo. 6 nel tuo spazio e nel tuo luogo che quindi non condividi con la persona o con le persone che stai parlando. Diciamo che la differenza, prendo questo come esempio, delle tecnologie immersive come per esempio la realtà virtuale è che ti dà invece la possibilità di vivere comunque un'esperienza di connessione da remoto, in cui si supera la necessità di una presenza fisica, ma allo stesso tempo hai la possibilità di una percezione di presenza, non fisica chiaramente, virtuale, che ti dà la possibilità di condivisione spaziale e di conseguenza di interazione differente, più forte, con tutte quelle possibilità che hai quando effettivamente ti ritrovi nello stare con una persona nello stesso luogo. Body Language, se si è in più di una persona la possibilità di parlare solo con uno piuttosto che con un altro, che con un altro dei partecipanti. Insomma la caratteristica principale sarà quella della presenza.\n\nE noi insomma chiaramente ci stiamo facendo una scommessa molto forte, gli investimenti credo parlino da soli. Nel corso del 2021 abbiamo investito oltre 10000000000 di dollari in questo progetto. Crediamo rappresenti il futuro di internet, un ecosistema che sarà destinato a crescere. Insomma ci sono degli studi che ci dicono che nei prossimi 10 anni potrà arrivare a valere circa il 2.8 por 100 del PIL mondiale, il metaverso ovviamente con tutto il suo indotto. In questo momento ci troviamo nella fase in cui ci trovavamo all'inizio degli anni 90 con internet.\n\nCioè c'erano le tecnologie di base, si percepiva l'utilizzo e l'utilità che quelle tecnologie avrebbero potuto portare alla nostra vita quotidiana, all'economia, ma siamo ancora in una fase embrionale, di crescita, in cui gli utilizzi e le prospettive verranno resi più evidenti e ce ne accorgeremo nel corso dei prossimi 10-quindici anni. Quindi questa è\n\nSpeaker 0: un pochino la prospettiva. Bene, chiaro. Quello che molti si chiedono è però come in particolare Meta intende affrontare una serie di rischi e una serie di preoccupazioni che sono legate al metaverso come ad esempio renderlo sicuro, creare anche dei centri di responsabilità per quello che avviene nel metaverso e poi anche come fare a creare una collaborazione anche con gli altri soggetti che ci saranno coinvolti perché ovviamente ci sono altre grandi aziende, altre istituzioni, altri player, chiamiamoli così in generale, che si affacciano nel Metaverso stanno cercando anche loro di costruire delle soluzioni in questo senso e quindi qual è la vostra forma da una parte di responsabilizzazione e dall'altra di collaborazione? Certo,\n\nSpeaker 1: allora partiamo da una premessa generale e cioè che il metaverso per avere successo e per essere utilizzato da centinaia di milioni di persone come speriamo e come crediamo questo succederà nei prossimi anni deve essere una piattaforma nella quale le persone si sentono al sicuro. Si sentono a proprio agio, che vogliono utilizzare, che trovano utili chiaramente, che porti vantaggi economici e per fare, per avere tutte queste caratteristiche chiaramente si deve fare in modo in questa fase di design, di formazione e di costruzione della tecnologia che ovviamente lo si faccia pensando a queste priorità e quindi chiaramente la sicurezza è una di queste, fondamentale e trasversale. Secondo me abbiamo una grandissima opportunità. No, parlavamo prima della prospettiva di 1015 anni. Siamo in una fase embrionale di sviluppo della tecnologia e di utilizzo da parte delle persone.\n\nBene abbiamo questa opportunità di, ed è in parte quello che già stiamo facendo, anche in queste discussioni, di sviluppare un dibattito pubblico con istituzioni, esperti, accademici, aziende, utenti, consumatori per fare in modo di scrivere dall'inizio le regole dello sviluppo di questo Metaverso e per fare in modo che sia una piattaforma sicura. La tecnologia spessissimo va più veloce delle regole che il legislatore e le istituzioni riescono a scrivere. L'abbiamo visto sicuramente con internet, dove le regolamentazioni più forti sono arrivate dopo trent'anni di sviluppo globale di internet e dove I legislatori e l'esperto dovuto inseguire l'utilizzo della tecnologia che si modificava velocemente. Bene, secondo me qui abbiamo l'opportunità di fare esattamente l'opposto, di guidare lo sviluppo di questa tecnologia e di non farci prendere in contropiede dalla dalla da un utilizzo che poi crediamo nei prossimi anni sarà più basso. Quindi questo è il primo punto della grandissima opportunità il secondo è che dobbiamo avere delle regole chiare in testa sulle quali costruire questo dibattito.\n\nIl primo chiaramente si può partire da regolamentazioni di internet di oggi e in qualche modo traslarle all'interno di un contesto di tecnologie più immersive chiaramente non potranno essere sovrapponibili perché le utilizzi saranno differenti. Però insomma quello della protezione dei dati credo sia una di queste regolamentazioni dalle quali partire, quindi bisogna partire nel costruire il metaverso con la logica di minimizzazione dell'utilizzo dei dati, di trasparenza, di controllo da parte dell'utente. Il secondo aspetto è quello della sicurezza, e la sicurezza della persona anche all'interno di questa piattaforma, all'interno del metaverso. L'esempio famoso e citato nel corso degli ultimi mesi è un qualcosa che impareremo nel corso delle settimane, è quello del controllo aggiuntivo tecnologico che è stato inserito per gli avatar che si chiama controlla il tuo spazio a seguito di un caso di arrassment che c'era stato all'interno di un incontro tra diversi avatar e quindi la risposta tecnologica chiaramente può essere una soluzione e si costruirà nel corso degli anni. Deve essere chiaramente inclusivo, questa è l'altra grande sfida che abbiamo davanti nel design di queste tecnologie, bisogna tenere in considerazione diversi utilizzi che potranno essere fatti e poi dovrà essere aperto ed interoperabile perché esattamente come oggi non esiste un internet solo di Google, un internet di Apple, un internet di Microsoft e così via, ma tu puoi passare da una piattaforma, tu utente puoi passare all'interno dello stesso protocollo, stessa tecnologia di base da una piattaforma all'altra e quindi avere una pluralità di servizi che possano servire alla tua vita, al miglioramento sulla tua vita quotidiana, sociale, economica, eccetera, esattamente allo stesso modo il metaverso dovrà avere una serie di possibilità, di esperienze e di servizi che chiaramente si devono parlare tra loro e quindi l'interoperabilità rimarrà una chiave.\n\nSpeaker 0: Chiarissimo. Dunque questo sarà un argomento veramente interessante perché ovviamente sull'interoperabilità alcuni standard di internet nascevano quando ancora internet non aveva un'applicazione commerciale così forte come avuto dopo e quindi dal TCPIP in poi c'era stata una serie di prima studi accademici o legati alla difesa o legati all'internet pre era commerciale e poi c'è stata l'evoluzione commerciale e quindi di questo standard comune hanno potuto beneficiare tutti in un secondo momento. Adesso la sfida sarà cercare di capire di mettere d'accordo una serie di grandi realtà che ovviamente hanno degli interessi che possono confliggere e che possono andare in direzioni diverse anche semplicemente. La domanda sull'applicazione del metaverso ovvero nel mondo del lavoro, nel mondo dell'accademia, nel mondo dell'industria quali sono degli utilizzi di cui potranno beneficiare in particolare a livello lavorativo? Perché è una delle domande principali perché Facebook e Meta sono stati da una parte una grandissima piattaforma privata, nel senso di vita privata, e dall'altra sono diventate anche un grande strumento per aziende, per farsi conoscere, per fare marketing, per arrivare a un pubblico molto più vasto magari di quello che potevano raggiungere.\n\nQuindi secondo me c'è anche una grande domanda da parte delle imprese e questo è un po' anche il tema del nostro podcast. Come cambia la prospettiva per un'azienda nel metaverso? Quali sono le strade che potrà prendere? Quali sono gli strumenti che potrà avere per garantire un maggiore coinvolgimento dei clienti, dei partner o delle istituzioni? Assolutamente, allora\n\nSpeaker 1: io credo che questa come dicevamo prima è una cosa che vedremo nei prossimi anni, come si svilupperà e che tipo di utilizzo verrà fatto, esattamente come Facebook era nato all'interno di un campus universitario, per mettere in contatto delle persone in uno spazio comunque sociale già circoscritto e poi si è trasformato nella principale piattaforma internazionale di investimento pubblicitario per le piccole e medie imprese. Oggi sono circa 10000000 che investono su Facebook per raggiungere I propri clienti e che quindi comprato tutta una serie di questioni, chiaramente l'abbassamento delle barriere d'ingresso in determinati mercati, dei costi pubblicitari, eccetera, di internazionalizzazione. È un qualcosa che si è creato con lo sviluppo della piattaforma, ma io credo che nello stesso modo vedremo uno sviluppo del metaverso in questo senso. Pensando agli ambiti di applicazione però, io credo che potremo avere, possiamo avere degli indizi in un qualche modo, no? Di quali possono essere potenzialmente le aree di maggior sviluppo.\n\nAllora, al di là del tanto citato e già affermato mondo del gaming con questa tecnologia che però rappresenta solo un pezzettino embrionale dello sviluppo della piattaforma, io credo in altri settori sarà molto importante e già ne vediamo tanti utilizzi come per esempio quello della sanità. Il mondo della formazione in varie forme che chiaramente è trasversale non solamente diciamo della formazione scolastica primaria che sicuramente potrà portare dei benefici in termini di azzeramento della necessità di presenza fisica quando chiaramente non è possibile essere presenti fisicamente perché questo credo sia un'altra cosa importante da sottolineare credo non ci sia niente di meglio di avere un'interazione di persona. Stiamo pensando a questa tecnologia come complementare, non sostitutiva della realtà. Comunque il tema della formazione credo sia molto importante, il mondo della cultura. Il mondo della cultura che tra l'altro già avuto tantissimi esempi è la possibilità di avere una presenza immersiva all'interno di contenuti culturali che tu prima eri abituato a fruire esclusivamente da spettatore e quasi mai da\n\nSpeaker 0: interprete nel senso del chiaramente il contenuto culturale\n\nSpeaker 1: c'è chi lo crea ma un ruolo molto specifico e c'è chi lo fruisce. Nel metaverso avrai la possibilità di potenzialmente interpretare entrambi I ruoli nello stesso momento e quindi credo anche lì si aprirà una possibilità estremamente importante. Tra l'altro qui in Italia insieme a Tim abbiamo inaugurato la loro ricostruzione in realtà virtuale del mausoleo di Augusto. Tra l'altro con il nostro fondatore Mark Zuckerberg e veramente la possibilità di camminare e di ricostruire 2000 anni di storia di un pezzo della città e di un monumento come il Mausoleo di Augusto ti dà questa possibilità di correre tra le epoche e ti dà veramente la percezione delle potenzialità dello strumento. E poi l'ultimo, il lavoro da remoto e la presenza da remoto, dove su questo già stiamo vedendo tantissime applicazioni.\n\nNoi abbiamo sviluppato questa piattaforma che si chiama Workrooms, che ti dà la possibilità di avere esattamente un incontro come questo o intorno a un tavolo o insomma in diversi setting di presentazione o altro, con un numero molto alto di partecipanti dove tu in diverse parti del mondo ti trovi però e ti ritrovi intorno alla stessa alla stessa tavola e hai quel tipo di interazione fisica che stiamo avendo io e te in questo momento ma con delle tecnologie chiaramente di riproduzione di una realtà virtuale.\n\nSpeaker 0: Bene, chiarissimo. L'ultima domanda che facciamo ai nostri ospiti è legata a un consiglio: cioè gli chiediamo di darci un'idea, un personaggio, un libro, un profilo Twitter, qualcuno da seguire per capire di più del tema del giorno, del tema della puntata e dunque del metaverso. Chi ci consigli? Allora io vi consiglio un personaggio che è noto, probabilmente non\n\nSpeaker 1: avrete bisogno del mio consiglio per conoscerlo, che è Matthew Bolt. Matthew Ball, che vi consiglio una cosa che già fatto e una cosa che uscirà. Una cosa che già fatto è una audiochat, di fatto un podcast che potete trovare sul suo sito o facendo una ricerca con Zuckerberg, con Mark Zuckerberg, parlando proprio della prospettiva del metaverso in cui si capisce un pochino meglio qual è la nostra visione, sicuramente meglio di quanto non abbia fatto io in questa chiacchierata. E una cosa che invece riuscirà, uscirà nel corso dell'estate che sarà si chiama The Meraverse un suo libro, un suo libro che rappresenterà secondo me uno di quelle pietre miliari di divulgazione di questa tecnologia e di questa piattaforma il cui nome è utilizzato tantissimo, ma di cui diciamo non sempre se ne capiscono I contorni nel dibattito pubblico.\n\nSpeaker 0: Perfetto, Matthewball che anche un sito che è Matthewball. Vc perché adesso lui è un venture capitalis dopo aver avuto una serie di esperienze anche con varie aziende tra cui Amazon eccetera e sicuramente un sito dove analizza una serie di grandi temi con dei paper approfonditi e l'ultima sua specializzazione è quella del Metaverso e sicuramente questo libro sarà un punto di partenza per capire dove andremo in questo settore. Grazie ancora ad Angelo Mazzetti.\n\nSpeaker 1: Grazie a voi, grazie a te Giorgio.\n\nSpeaker 0: Questo episodio è stato scritto da me ed Eleonora Russo registrato negli studi di Zuan a Roma e prodotto da Business Plus.", "paragraphs": [ { "sentences": [ { "text": "Il metaverso è diventato una buzzword, cioè una parola che tutti usano, che infilano nei discorsi e nei progetti di investimento però senza sapere davvero che cosa sia.", "start": 10.4, "end": 21.195 }, { "text": "La buona notizia è che nessuno può sapere cosa sarà il metaverso perché si tratta di un mondo o di mondi in cui saremo immersi davvero solo fra 5 o 10 anni.", "start": 21.575, "end": 31.41 }, { "text": "Nel frattempo però possiamo iniziare a capire come si muovono I principali attori in questo spazio.", "start": 31.41, "end": 36.63 }, { "text": "Ci sono I videogiochi come Fortnite o Roblocks che hanno già una loro versione del metaverso in cui gli utenti vivono, giocano, parlano, fanno acquisti, si innamorano, litigano furiosamente con o senza caschi per la realtà virtuale.", "start": 36.77, "end": 50.635 }, { "text": "Ci sono aziende storiche come Microsoft che soprattutto in campo lavorativo hanno già ingranato la marcia e procedono spedite verso la smaterializzazione delle riunioni e la condivisione degli spazi virtuali ma probabilmente chi più sta investendo nel metaverso sia a livello economico che di immagine è Meta l'azienda che l'anno scorso cambiato nome per segnalare questo cambio di paradigma Facebook esiste ancora ed è affiancato da Instagram, da Whatsapp e soprattutto dal business pubblicitario che continua a macinare ricavi Eppure Max Zuckerberg deciso che I prossimi 10 anni saranno dedicati soprattutto a sviluppare questo nuovo mondo che lui considera il prossimo salto tecnologico.", "start": 50.855, "end": 90.57 } ], "start": 10.4, "end": 90.57, "num_words": 216.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Quali sono stati gli altri salti tecnologici degli ultimi anni?", "start": 91.03, "end": 94.365 }, { "text": "L'arrivo di internet, la nascita dei social network e il passaggio dal desktop al mobile.", "start": 94.365, "end": 99.505 }, { "text": "Secondo lui il futuro è nel metaverso e di questo oggi parleremo con Angelo Mazzetti capo della public policy di Meta per l'Italia, la Grecia, Malta e Cipro.", "start": 99.685, "end": 114.41 }, { "text": "Bentornati a Tecnopolicy e benvenuto ad Angelo Mazzetti.", "start": 114.41, "end": 117.79 }, { "text": "Grazie.", "start": 118.57, "end": 119.07 } ], "start": 91.03, "end": 119.07, "num_words": 62.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Grazie di", "start": 119.29, "end": 119.850006 } ], "start": 119.29, "end": 119.850006, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "essere con noi.", "start": 119.850006, "end": 120.65 }, { "text": "Grazie a voi dell'invito.", "start": 120.65, "end": 121.79 } ], "start": 119.850006, "end": 121.79, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "La prima domanda che facciamo sempre ai nostri ospiti è una domanda che consegniamo ai nostri ospiti e dunque lasciamo loro la presentazione.", "start": 122.245, "end": 131.865 }, { "text": "Come 6 arrivato a fare quello che fai oggi e qual è stato il tuo percorso fino a qui?", "start": 132.485, "end": 136.98 } ], "start": 122.245, "end": 136.98, "num_words": 42.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Allora sono arrivato come spesso come spesso capita con una traiettoria non lineare.", "start": 137.86, "end": 143.64 }, { "text": "Lo diciamo e leggiamo spesso che la crescita non è un percorso non è una linea retta assomiglia molto di più a un groviglio di cose, di interessi, di passioni, di esperienze, di persone che incontri e che in qualche modo ti arricchiscono e provano a guidarti.", "start": 144.5, "end": 161.595 }, { "text": "Per me è stato così.", "start": 162.05501, "end": 164.43 }, { "text": "Io ero, sono e spero ancora di essere considerato un ragazzo che cercava di fare tantissime cose il più possibile.", "start": 165.39, "end": 175.95 }, { "text": "Io avevo una mia startup che si occupava di vendita, di cibo italiano con piccolissime produzioni e che veniva venduto online.", "start": 175.95, "end": 185.505 } ], "start": 137.86, "end": 185.505, "num_words": 106.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Organizzavo degli eventi tramite un comitato promotore, organizzavo una serie di TEDx, quindi il formato in franchising della più famosa conferenza TED.", "start": 186.845, "end": 196.71 }, { "text": "E come parte di queste di mi sono vicino sempre di più al mondo della tecnologia, al mondo delle istituzioni.", "start": 197.17, "end": 210.225 }, { "text": "Ad un certo punto ho visto una posizione che era aperta in Italia su Facebook, ho fatto application, ho fatto 8 colloqui, tra l'altro durante l'estate, durissimi, e alla fine sono entrato e poi da lì all'interno dell'azienda, come sai, come sapete cambiato nome.", "start": 210.48502, "end": 230.13 }, { "text": "Non si chiama più Facebook, si chiama Meta e in questi 6 anni ho affrontato tantissime sfide e ho visto anche l'azienda modificarsi in maniera estremamente significativa crescere e devo dire che non c'è stato un momento in cui non ci siamo divertiti o non siamo", "start": 230.83, "end": 249.20001 } ], "start": 186.845, "end": 249.20001, "num_words": 132.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "stati impegnati.", "start": 252.62001, "end": 252.86002 }, { "text": "Ecco Meta, adesso l'anno scorso c'è stato questo cambio diciamo di strada e di strategia per la vostra azienda e l'obiettivo è costruire il metaverso o costruire uno dei Metaversi che esisteranno nel futuro delle nostre vite.", "start": 252.86002, "end": 269.29498 }, { "text": "Ecco, qual è l'impegno di Meta e qual è l'obiettivo di Meta nella costruzione del Metaverso?", "start": 269.35498, "end": 275.29498 }, { "text": "Quale idea l'azienda nella costruzione di questo nuovo mondo?", "start": 275.35498, "end": 282.50998 }, { "text": "Allora iniziamo", "start": 282.72998, "end": 284.27 } ], "start": 252.62001, "end": 284.27, "num_words": 66.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "cercando di chiarire che cosa intendiamo con la parola Metaverso, almeno noi diciamo I Meta.", "start": 285.37, "end": 291.15 }, { "text": "Per noi il metaverso non è nient'altro che il futuro di internet.", "start": 291.545, "end": 296.445 }, { "text": "Cioè rappresenta quell'insieme di tecnologie, noi speriamo quella piattaforma unica, interoperabile, connessa e aperta che ci darà la possibilità tramite delle tecnologie più immersive di vivere al meglio, di vivere meglio, di prendere più opportunità da esperienze digitali che noi già facciamo oggi.", "start": 296.665, "end": 317.985 }, { "text": "Faccio un esempio, insomma.", "start": 318.94498, "end": 320.405 }, { "text": "Noi tante volte ci siamo parlati magari in videoconferenza.", "start": 321.26498, "end": 324.56497 } ], "start": 285.37, "end": 324.56497, "num_words": 83.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Tutti noi in questi ultimi 2 anni l'abbiamo fatto su base quotidiana.", "start": 325.025, "end": 329.985 }, { "text": "È un qualcosa che tanti facevano anche prima di questa pandemia.", "start": 329.985, "end": 332.645 }, { "text": "Tantissimi tutti l'hanno dovuto affrontare nel corso della pandemia, oggi fa parte della nostra quotidianità.", "start": 333.03, "end": 337.93002 }, { "text": "Tu oggi da remoto puoi fare un evento, puoi parlare con un tuo caro, puoi seguire un evento sportivo, insomma puoi fare tantissime attività.", "start": 338.39, "end": 350.32498 }, { "text": "La differenza però è che non condividi uno spazio con le persone con cui ti stai connettendo.", "start": 350.32498, "end": 356.905 } ], "start": 325.025, "end": 356.905, "num_words": 79.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "La tua esperienza, la tua interazione è sempre intermediata da uno schermo.", "start": 356.965, "end": 363.13 }, { "text": "6 nel tuo spazio e nel tuo luogo che quindi non condividi con la persona o con le persone che stai parlando.", "start": 363.35, "end": 376.16998 }, { "text": "Diciamo che la differenza, prendo questo come esempio, delle tecnologie immersive come per esempio la realtà virtuale è che ti dà invece la possibilità di vivere comunque un'esperienza di connessione da remoto, in cui si supera la necessità di una presenza fisica, ma allo stesso tempo hai la possibilità di una percezione di presenza, non fisica chiaramente, virtuale, che ti dà la possibilità di condivisione spaziale e di conseguenza di interazione differente, più forte, con tutte quelle possibilità che hai quando effettivamente ti ritrovi nello stare con una persona nello stesso luogo.", "start": 376.725, "end": 412.575 }, { "text": "Body Language, se si è in più di una persona la possibilità di parlare solo con uno piuttosto che con un altro, che con un altro dei partecipanti.", "start": 412.575, "end": 420.67 }, { "text": "Insomma la caratteristica principale sarà quella della presenza.", "start": 420.67, "end": 426.03003 } ], "start": 356.965, "end": 426.03003, "num_words": 162.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "E noi insomma chiaramente ci stiamo facendo una scommessa molto forte, gli investimenti credo parlino da soli.", "start": 426.03003, "end": 432.445 }, { "text": "Nel corso del 2021 abbiamo investito oltre 10000000000 di dollari in questo progetto.", "start": 432.445, "end": 437.825 }, { "text": "Crediamo rappresenti il futuro di internet, un ecosistema che sarà destinato a crescere.", "start": 437.885, "end": 443.245 }, { "text": "Insomma ci sono degli studi che ci dicono che nei prossimi 10 anni potrà arrivare a valere circa il 2.8 por 100 del PIL mondiale, il metaverso ovviamente con tutto il suo indotto.", "start": 443.245, "end": 453.72 }, { "text": "In questo momento ci troviamo nella fase in cui ci trovavamo all'inizio degli anni 90 con internet.", "start": 454.42, "end": 460.92 } ], "start": 426.03003, "end": 460.92, "num_words": 93.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Cioè c'erano le tecnologie di base, si percepiva l'utilizzo e l'utilità che quelle tecnologie avrebbero potuto portare alla nostra vita quotidiana, all'economia, ma siamo ancora in una fase embrionale, di crescita, in cui gli utilizzi e le prospettive verranno resi più evidenti e ce ne accorgeremo nel corso dei prossimi 10-quindici anni.", "start": 462.23502, "end": 487.7 }, { "text": "Quindi questa è", "start": 487.7, "end": 488.18 } ], "start": 462.23502, "end": 488.18, "num_words": 55.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "un pochino la prospettiva.", "start": 488.18, "end": 489.32 }, { "text": "Bene, chiaro.", "start": 489.535, "end": 490.355 }, { "text": "Quello che molti si chiedono è però come in particolare Meta intende affrontare una serie di rischi e una serie di preoccupazioni che sono legate al metaverso come ad esempio renderlo sicuro, creare anche dei centri di responsabilità per quello che avviene nel metaverso e poi anche come fare a creare una collaborazione anche con gli altri soggetti che ci saranno coinvolti perché ovviamente ci sono altre grandi aziende, altre istituzioni, altri player, chiamiamoli così in generale, che si affacciano nel Metaverso stanno cercando anche loro di costruire delle soluzioni in questo senso e quindi qual è la vostra forma da una parte di responsabilizzazione e dall'altra di collaborazione?", "start": 491.055, "end": 542.78 }, { "text": "Certo,", "start": 543.64, "end": 544.14 } ], "start": 488.18, "end": 544.14, "num_words": 116.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "allora partiamo da una premessa generale e cioè che il metaverso per avere successo e per essere utilizzato da centinaia di milioni di persone come speriamo e come crediamo questo succederà nei prossimi anni deve essere una piattaforma nella quale le persone si sentono al sicuro.", "start": 544.855, "end": 561.18 }, { "text": "Si sentono a proprio agio, che vogliono utilizzare, che trovano utili chiaramente, che porti vantaggi economici e per fare, per avere tutte queste caratteristiche chiaramente si deve fare in modo in questa fase di design, di formazione e di costruzione della tecnologia che ovviamente lo si faccia pensando a queste priorità e quindi chiaramente la sicurezza è una di queste, fondamentale e trasversale.", "start": 561.24, "end": 585.375 }, { "text": "Secondo me abbiamo una grandissima opportunità.", "start": 586.82, "end": 591.56006 }, { "text": "No, parlavamo prima della prospettiva di 1015 anni.", "start": 591.78, "end": 594.2 }, { "text": "Siamo in una fase embrionale di sviluppo della tecnologia e di utilizzo da parte delle persone.", "start": 594.98004, "end": 599.48004 } ], "start": 544.855, "end": 599.48004, "num_words": 139.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Bene abbiamo questa opportunità di, ed è in parte quello che già stiamo facendo, anche in queste discussioni, di sviluppare un dibattito pubblico con istituzioni, esperti, accademici, aziende, utenti, consumatori per fare in modo di scrivere dall'inizio le regole dello sviluppo di questo Metaverso e per fare in modo che sia una piattaforma sicura.", "start": 599.645, "end": 627.18 }, { "text": "La tecnologia spessissimo va più veloce delle regole che il legislatore e le istituzioni riescono a scrivere.", "start": 627.18, "end": 634.925 }, { "text": "L'abbiamo visto sicuramente con internet, dove le regolamentazioni più forti sono arrivate dopo trent'anni di sviluppo globale di internet e dove I legislatori e l'esperto dovuto inseguire l'utilizzo della tecnologia che si modificava velocemente.", "start": 635.065, "end": 647.74005 }, { "text": "Bene, secondo me qui abbiamo l'opportunità di fare esattamente l'opposto, di guidare lo sviluppo di questa tecnologia e di non farci prendere in contropiede dalla dalla da un utilizzo che poi crediamo nei prossimi anni sarà più basso.", "start": 647.88, "end": 660.035 }, { "text": "Quindi questo è il primo punto della grandissima opportunità il secondo è che dobbiamo avere delle regole chiare in testa sulle quali costruire questo dibattito.", "start": 660.035, "end": 668.13495 } ], "start": 599.645, "end": 668.13495, "num_words": 168.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Il primo chiaramente si può partire da regolamentazioni di internet di oggi e in qualche modo traslarle all'interno di un contesto di tecnologie più immersive chiaramente non potranno essere sovrapponibili perché le utilizzi saranno differenti.", "start": 668.87, "end": 683.93 }, { "text": "Però insomma quello della protezione dei dati credo sia una di queste regolamentazioni dalle quali partire, quindi bisogna partire nel costruire il metaverso con la logica di minimizzazione dell'utilizzo dei dati, di trasparenza, di controllo da parte dell'utente.", "start": 683.99, "end": 695.44495 }, { "text": "Il secondo aspetto è quello della sicurezza, e la sicurezza della persona anche all'interno di questa piattaforma, all'interno del metaverso.", "start": 696.225, "end": 704.63995 }, { "text": "L'esempio famoso e citato nel corso degli ultimi mesi è un qualcosa che impareremo nel corso delle settimane, è quello del controllo aggiuntivo tecnologico che è stato inserito per gli avatar che si chiama controlla il tuo spazio a seguito di un caso di arrassment che c'era stato all'interno di un incontro tra diversi avatar e quindi la risposta tecnologica chiaramente può essere una soluzione e si costruirà nel corso degli anni.", "start": 705.74, "end": 733.93 }, { "text": "Deve essere chiaramente inclusivo, questa è l'altra grande sfida che abbiamo davanti nel design di queste tecnologie, bisogna tenere in considerazione diversi utilizzi che potranno essere fatti e poi dovrà essere aperto ed interoperabile perché esattamente come oggi non esiste un internet solo di Google, un internet di Apple, un internet di Microsoft e così via, ma tu puoi passare da una piattaforma, tu utente puoi passare all'interno dello stesso protocollo, stessa tecnologia di base da una piattaforma all'altra e quindi avere una pluralità di servizi che possano servire alla tua vita, al miglioramento sulla tua vita quotidiana, sociale, economica, eccetera, esattamente allo stesso modo il metaverso dovrà avere una serie di possibilità, di esperienze e di servizi che chiaramente si devono parlare tra loro e quindi l'interoperabilità rimarrà una chiave.", "start": 733.93, "end": 780.575 } ], "start": 668.87, "end": 780.575, "num_words": 296.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Chiarissimo.", "start": 781.115, "end": 781.615 }, { "text": "Dunque questo sarà un argomento veramente interessante perché ovviamente sull'interoperabilità alcuni standard di internet nascevano quando ancora internet non aveva un'applicazione commerciale così forte come avuto dopo e quindi dal TCPIP in poi c'era stata una serie di prima studi accademici o legati alla difesa o legati all'internet pre era commerciale e poi c'è stata l'evoluzione commerciale e quindi di questo standard comune hanno potuto beneficiare tutti in un secondo momento.", "start": 782.635, "end": 817.77 }, { "text": "Adesso la sfida sarà cercare di capire di mettere d'accordo una serie di grandi realtà che ovviamente hanno degli interessi che possono confliggere e che possono andare in direzioni diverse anche semplicemente.", "start": 818.47, "end": 831.89496 }, { "text": "La domanda sull'applicazione del metaverso ovvero nel mondo del lavoro, nel mondo dell'accademia, nel mondo dell'industria quali sono degli utilizzi di cui potranno beneficiare in particolare a livello lavorativo?", "start": 831.95496, "end": 847.16003 }, { "text": "Perché è una delle domande principali perché Facebook e Meta sono stati da una parte una grandissima piattaforma privata, nel senso di vita privata, e dall'altra sono diventate anche un grande strumento per aziende, per farsi conoscere, per fare marketing, per arrivare a un pubblico molto più vasto magari di quello che potevano raggiungere.", "start": 847.16003, "end": 871.37006 } ], "start": 781.115, "end": 871.37006, "num_words": 187.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Quindi secondo me c'è anche una grande domanda da parte delle imprese e questo è un po' anche il tema del nostro podcast.", "start": 871.91003, "end": 879.13 }, { "text": "Come cambia la prospettiva per un'azienda nel metaverso?", "start": 880.755, "end": 884.695 }, { "text": "Quali sono le strade che potrà prendere?", "start": 884.915, "end": 888.515 }, { "text": "Quali sono gli strumenti che potrà avere per garantire un maggiore coinvolgimento dei clienti, dei partner o delle istituzioni?", "start": 888.515, "end": 895.23 }, { "text": "Assolutamente, allora", "start": 897.07, "end": 898.37 } ], "start": 871.91003, "end": 898.37, "num_words": 59.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "io credo che questa come dicevamo prima è una cosa che vedremo nei prossimi anni, come si svilupperà e che tipo di utilizzo verrà fatto, esattamente come Facebook era nato all'interno di un campus universitario, per mettere in contatto delle persone in uno spazio comunque sociale già circoscritto e poi si è trasformato nella principale piattaforma internazionale di investimento pubblicitario per le piccole e medie imprese.", "start": 900.11, "end": 924.565 }, { "text": "Oggi sono circa 10000000 che investono su Facebook per raggiungere I propri clienti e che quindi comprato tutta una serie di questioni, chiaramente l'abbassamento delle barriere d'ingresso in determinati mercati, dei costi pubblicitari, eccetera, di internazionalizzazione.", "start": 924.565, "end": 937.68 }, { "text": "È un qualcosa che si è creato con lo sviluppo della piattaforma, ma io credo che nello stesso modo vedremo uno sviluppo del metaverso in questo senso.", "start": 938.77997, "end": 945.735 }, { "text": "Pensando agli ambiti di applicazione però, io credo che potremo avere, possiamo avere degli indizi in un qualche modo, no?", "start": 945.735, "end": 952.375 }, { "text": "Di quali possono essere potenzialmente le aree di maggior sviluppo.", "start": 952.375, "end": 955.81494 } ], "start": 900.11, "end": 955.81494, "num_words": 159.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Allora, al di là del tanto citato e già affermato mondo del gaming con questa tecnologia che però rappresenta solo un pezzettino embrionale dello sviluppo della piattaforma, io credo in altri settori sarà molto importante e già ne vediamo tanti utilizzi come per esempio quello della sanità.", "start": 955.81494, "end": 976.11163 }, { "text": "Il mondo della formazione in varie forme che chiaramente è trasversale non solamente diciamo della formazione scolastica primaria che sicuramente potrà portare dei benefici in termini di azzeramento della necessità di presenza fisica quando chiaramente non è possibile essere presenti fisicamente perché questo credo sia un'altra cosa importante da sottolineare credo non ci sia niente di meglio di avere un'interazione di persona.", "start": 976.46497, "end": 1006.26495 }, { "text": "Stiamo pensando a questa tecnologia come complementare, non sostitutiva della realtà.", "start": 1006.26495, "end": 1010.20496 }, { "text": "Comunque il tema della formazione credo sia molto importante, il mondo della cultura.", "start": 1011.14496, "end": 1015.5 }, { "text": "Il mondo della cultura che tra l'altro già avuto tantissimi esempi è la possibilità di avere una presenza immersiva all'interno di contenuti culturali che tu prima eri abituato a fruire esclusivamente da spettatore e quasi mai da", "start": 1016.2, "end": 1035.5298 } ], "start": 955.81494, "end": 1035.5298, "num_words": 170.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "interprete nel senso del chiaramente il contenuto culturale", "start": 1035.5298, "end": 1036.0479 } ], "start": 1035.5298, "end": 1036.0479, "num_words": 8.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "c'è chi lo crea ma un ruolo molto specifico e c'è chi lo fruisce.", "start": 1036.0479, "end": 1043.5651 }, { "text": "Nel metaverso avrai la possibilità di potenzialmente interpretare entrambi I ruoli nello stesso momento e quindi credo anche lì si aprirà una possibilità estremamente importante.", "start": 1044.0701, "end": 1054.79 }, { "text": "Tra l'altro qui in Italia insieme a Tim abbiamo inaugurato la loro ricostruzione in realtà virtuale del mausoleo di Augusto.", "start": 1054.79, "end": 1061.8949 }, { "text": "Tra l'altro con il nostro fondatore Mark Zuckerberg e veramente la possibilità di camminare e di ricostruire 2000 anni di storia di un pezzo della città e di un monumento come il Mausoleo di Augusto ti dà questa possibilità di correre tra le epoche e ti dà veramente la percezione delle potenzialità dello strumento.", "start": 1062.0349, "end": 1085.48 }, { "text": "E poi l'ultimo, il lavoro da remoto e la presenza da remoto, dove su questo già stiamo vedendo tantissime applicazioni.", "start": 1085.48, "end": 1091.235 } ], "start": 1036.0479, "end": 1091.235, "num_words": 133.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Noi abbiamo sviluppato questa piattaforma che si chiama Workrooms, che ti dà la possibilità di avere esattamente un incontro come questo o intorno a un tavolo o insomma in diversi setting di presentazione o altro, con un numero molto alto di partecipanti dove tu in diverse parti del mondo ti trovi però e ti ritrovi intorno alla stessa alla stessa tavola e hai quel tipo di interazione fisica che stiamo avendo io e te in questo momento ma con delle tecnologie chiaramente di riproduzione di una realtà virtuale.", "start": 1092.575, "end": 1119.945 } ], "start": 1092.575, "end": 1119.945, "num_words": 88.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Bene, chiarissimo.", "start": 1120.325, "end": 1121.625 }, { "text": "L'ultima domanda che facciamo ai nostri ospiti è legata a un consiglio: cioè gli chiediamo di darci un'idea, un personaggio, un libro, un profilo Twitter, qualcuno da seguire per capire di più del tema del giorno, del tema della puntata e dunque del metaverso.", "start": 1122.1649, "end": 1142.2251 }, { "text": "Chi ci consigli?", "start": 1142.4451, "end": 1143.425 }, { "text": "Allora io vi consiglio un personaggio che è noto, probabilmente non", "start": 1143.805, "end": 1146.8451 } ], "start": 1120.325, "end": 1146.8451, "num_words": 60.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "avrete bisogno del mio consiglio per conoscerlo, che è Matthew Bolt.", "start": 1146.8451, "end": 1150.0651 }, { "text": "Matthew Ball, che vi consiglio una cosa che già fatto e una cosa che uscirà.", "start": 1151.2, "end": 1156.58 }, { "text": "Una cosa che già fatto è una audiochat, di fatto un podcast che potete trovare sul suo sito o facendo una ricerca con Zuckerberg, con Mark Zuckerberg, parlando proprio della prospettiva del metaverso in cui si capisce un pochino meglio qual è la nostra visione, sicuramente meglio di quanto non abbia fatto io in questa chiacchierata.", "start": 1157.36, "end": 1176.215 }, { "text": "E una cosa che invece riuscirà, uscirà nel corso dell'estate che sarà si chiama The Meraverse un suo libro, un suo libro che rappresenterà secondo me uno di quelle pietre miliari di divulgazione di questa tecnologia e di questa piattaforma il cui nome è utilizzato tantissimo, ma di cui diciamo non sempre se ne capiscono I contorni nel dibattito pubblico.", "start": 1176.215, "end": 1204.345 } ], "start": 1146.8451, "end": 1204.345, "num_words": 142.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Perfetto, Matthewball che anche un sito che è Matthewball.", "start": 1204.345, "end": 1208.61 }, { "text": "Vc perché adesso lui è un venture capitalis dopo aver avuto una serie di esperienze anche con varie aziende tra cui Amazon eccetera e sicuramente un sito dove analizza una serie di grandi temi con dei paper approfonditi e l'ultima sua specializzazione è quella del Metaverso e sicuramente questo libro sarà un punto di partenza per capire dove andremo in questo settore.", "start": 1208.87, "end": 1234.3301 }, { "text": "Grazie ancora ad Angelo Mazzetti.", "start": 1234.79, "end": 1236.55 } ], "start": 1204.345, "end": 1236.55, "num_words": 76.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Grazie a voi, grazie a te Giorgio.", "start": 1236.55, "end": 1238.0901 } ], "start": 1236.55, "end": 1238.0901, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Questo episodio è stato scritto da me ed Eleonora Russo registrato negli studi di Zuan a Roma e prodotto da Business Plus.", "start": 1241.27, "end": 1247.985 } ], "start": 1241.27, "end": 1247.985, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 0 } ] }, "entities": null, "translations": null, "topics": null } ], "detected_language": "" } ], "utterances": [ { "start": 10.4, "end": 11.059999, "confidence": 0.91052246, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Il 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Nel frattempo però possiamo iniziare a capire come si muovono I principali attori in questo spazio. 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