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Ne abbiamo parlato in questa puntata con Sandro Mezzadra professore di filosofia politica all'Università degli Studi di Bologna la pandemia si è innestata in uno scenario globale complesso e in continua ridefinizione come si sta ridefinendo in questo la concezione dello stato nazione e che cambiamenti stiamo vedendo nel modo di governare I territori a livello internazionale e nazionale? Beh gli stati nazione sono stati investiti e travolti dalla pandemia e le risposte alla pandemia non possono essere semplicemente nazionali lo vediamo ad esempio a proposito della Gran Bretagna che viene spesso citata come esempio di una risposta efficace al virus quantomeno nella seconda fase attraverso I vaccini I vaccini che vengono somministrati in Gran Bretagna provengono da una filiera produttiva che si estende dall'India alla Ciociaria mi sembra un punto significativo e credo che questo tema mh peculiarmente transnazionale ripresenterà a livello globale anche dopo la fine della crisi che stiamo vivendo ma per ragionare sullo stato nazione nel contesto di questa crisi dobbiamo indubbiamente registrare il fatto che sugli stati nazionali si è indirizzata una richiesta di protezione da parte di quote consistenti della popolazione contemporaneamente le politiche degli stati nazionali sono state improntate comprensibilmente a un governo dell'emergenza a un governo di un'emergenza almeno duplice sanitaria ed economico sociale. Nella congiuntura che stiamo vivendo io credo che sia necessario lavorare per ampliare in qualche modo perfino stravolgere la richiesta di protezione di cui parlavo poc'anzi penso che sia necessario reinterpretare il concetto stesso di protezione mh ed estenderlo a terreni fondamentali come ad esempio quello della salute e dell'istruzione mh che negli ultimi anni sono stati ferocemente attaccati e per certi aspetti anche destrutturati da politiche che in termini molto generali possiamo definire neoliberali perché questo ampliamento della richiesta di protezione questo scarto mh nella semantica stessa della protezione sia possibile è necessario un grande protagonismo sociale sono necessari lotte e movimenti sociali La diffusione del virus è anche il risultato della distensione globale. Che rapporto c'è tra questa pandemia e la globalizzazione? Se da un lato si è diffusa senza discriminazioni ed è diventata una questione globale dall'altro che disuguaglianze sta portando? La pandemia da covid 19 evidentemente un rapporto con la globalizzazione il modo e la grande velocità con cui il coronavirus si è diffuso nel mondo non possono essere compresi senza tenere presente quella esperienza di accelerata mobilità delle persone e delle merci che è un tratto costitutivo di quella che chiamiamo globalizzazione. Non sorprende dunque che il primo risultato della pandemia sia stata una crisi di mobilità, una crisi di mobilità che hanno pagato in primo luogo profughi emigranti ma che in fondo coinvolto tutti e tutte noi Penso che un punto di vista particolarmente efficace sulla pandemia sul suo rapporto con la mobilità e sulla crisi di mobilità che determinato sia offerto dalla logistica da quella logistica che per quanto molto spesso sia stata ignorata in questi anni dai sociologi dai ricercatori che si sono occupati di globalizzazione costituisce la condizione di possibilità di quest'ultima il suo scheletro infrastrutturale non è un caso che soprattutto nei primi giorni, nelle prime settimane dopo l'inizio della pandemia la logistica abbia rallentato le sue operazioni e si sia pervenuti in molti casi a un vero blocco di queste ultime ma contemporaneamente la logistica dalla movimentazione dei container all'ultimo miglio della consegna delle merci è stata in tutto il mondo praticamente dichiarata dai governi una attività economica essenziale con tutto quello che ne consegue. Il che ci fa comprendere come I processi globali che hanno influenzato caratterizzato la nostra vita negli ultimi decenni non siano certamente destinati ad arrestarsi con la pandemia. Sono certamente destinati a riorganizzarti, a riorganizzare anche la scala spaziale delle loro operazioni. Mi chiedete poi del rapporto tra la pandemia globale e le disuguaglianze. Beh diciamo intanto che la pandemia si è effettivamente globalizzata in tempi molto rapidi mh ma assunto forme molto diverse in diversi paesi in diverse regioni del mondo. Se guardiamo ad a 3 paesi pur diversi come gli Stati Uniti, il Brasile e l'India vediamo come la pandemia abbia colpito in modo selettivo e discriminatorio gruppi sociali specifici. Gli afroamericani, I Latinex negli Stati Uniti, gli indigeni I neri I poveri in Brasile I poveri I senza casta in India più in generale è stato pubblicato a gennaio un rapporto dell'OCSpam sulla crescita delle diseguaglianze durante la pandemia. Un unico dato l'aumento di ricchezza dei 10 miliardari più ricchi del pianeta durante la pandemia sarebbe sufficiente ad assicurare la vaccinazione di tutti gli abitanti del pianeta effettivamente in questo anno abbiamo assistito a una vera e propria esplosione della diseguaglianza e della povertà di una disuguaglianza, di una povertà sempre più marcatamente razzializzate e sessualizzate. I poveri sono sempre più spesso appartenenti a cosiddette minoranze e donne. Questa è una tendenza di lungo periodo. Mh? È una tendenza che caratterizzato il capitalismo quantomeno dalla fine degli anni 70 dello scorso secolo. Ma è una tendenza che la pandemia accelera ed esaspera. La crisi pandemica aumenta le distanze e acuisce le distanze e acuisce le conflittualità. Come possono e che ruolo avranno le amministrazioni locali nell'agire su queste tensioni e disparità colmando I vuoti venuti a crearsi? Certamente in in una situazione caratterizzata da una crescita esponenziale della disuguaglianza e della povertà è facile immaginare che si moltiplichino I conflitti sono molte le analisi che vengono proposte e che sottolineano come nel mondo post pandemico il capitalismo in particolare sia destinato a essere caratterizzato sempre più da brutalità da violenza brutalità, violenza, disuguaglianza, povertà. Io direi che abbiamo un bisogno assoluto di conflitti per contrastare queste tendenze ma sono anche consapevole del fatto che I conflitti in una situazione di questo genere possono assumere caratteristiche distruttive. In ogni caso I conflitti di cui stiamo parlando sono destinati a esprimersi in modo privilegiato nelle città. Ecco io credo che la città possa divenire lo spazio al cui interni I conflitti vengono valorizzati nella loro capacità di produrre uguaglianza e libertà. Nella loro capacità di produrre una nuova dimensione della comunità della comunità urbana che si fondi sul contrasto di brutalità, violenza, disuguaglianza, povertà. Da questo punto di vista I governi locali I governi urbani, metropolitani possono fare moltissimo possono predisporre delle infrastrutture politiche potremmo dire capaci di agevolare questa produzione conflittuale di nuova uguaglianza, di nuova libertà, di nuova comunità urbana di cui abbiamo oggi un enorme bisogno e di cui continueremo ad avere bisogno dopo la fine della pandemia. Le amministrazioni locali peraltro possono svolgere un ruolo importante anche dentro processi che stanno profondamente trasformando come dire l'ordine e il disordine mondiale possono giocare un ruolo che definirei perfino di politica estera a partire da una precisa individuazione dei principali processi globali che attraversano le città. E infine ci può consigliare una buona pratica che faccia riflettere in questo momento storico particolare? Io ho sottolineato come in questo momento ci sia un enorme bisogno di una nuova stagione di protagonismo sociale, di movimenti, di conflitti che siano in grado di contestare e invertire tendenze che nella crisi pandemica come ho già detto sembrano prefigurare un nonno caratterizzato da diseguaglianza, da povertà da violenza e da brutalità. Dunque le buone pratiche che possono che posso consigliare si riferiscono a questo terreno al terreno dei movimenti dei conflitti. Una buona pratica è sicuramente lo sciopero dell'intera filiera di Amazon del 22 marzo in Italia. Una buona pratica è quella dello sciopero dei rider del 26 marzo che si propone peraltro come occasione di confluenza per altri soggetti colpiti dalla crisi ad esempio I lavoratori della cultura e dello spettacolo. Ecco credo che si debbano moltiplicare buone pratiche come queste e che sia a partire da queste buone pratiche che si debbano immaginare anche buone pratiche sul terreno dell'amministrazione locale del governo metropolitano Avete ascoltato I podcast della fondazione per l'Innovazione urbana riflessioni in parole sulle città che cambiano Coordinamento Chiara Faini contenuti Marta Zaramella e Flavia Tommasini produzione Silvia Santa Chiara e Luca Tarantini Montaggio Flavia Tommasini Trovi I nostri podcast su WWW punto fondazioneinnovazioneurbana punto it Questo podcast è stato realizzato nell'aprile del 2021", "confidence": 0.9951172, "words": [ { "word": "i", "start": 5.2799997, "end": 5.44, "confidence": 0.6533203, "punctuated_word": "I", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.5323545 }, { "word": "podcast", "start": 5.44, "end": 5.94, "confidence": 0.9838867, "punctuated_word": "podcast", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.5323545 }, { "word": "della", "start": 6.3199997, "end": 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Come cambia la partecipazione nel nuovo scenario globalizzato? Il ruolo dello Stato è cambiato e così anche quello della politica e della governance. Quali sono le nuove sfide? Ne abbiamo parlato in questa puntata con Sandro Mezzadra professore di filosofia politica all'Università degli Studi di Bologna la pandemia si è innestata in uno scenario globale complesso e in continua ridefinizione come si sta ridefinendo in questo la concezione dello stato nazione e che cambiamenti stiamo vedendo nel modo di governare I territori a livello internazionale e nazionale?\n\nSpeaker 1: Beh gli stati nazione sono stati investiti e travolti dalla pandemia e le risposte alla pandemia non possono essere semplicemente nazionali lo vediamo ad esempio a proposito della Gran Bretagna che viene spesso citata come esempio di una risposta efficace al virus quantomeno nella seconda fase attraverso I vaccini I vaccini che vengono somministrati in Gran Bretagna provengono da una filiera produttiva che si estende dall'India alla Ciociaria mi sembra un punto significativo e credo che questo tema mh peculiarmente transnazionale ripresenterà a livello globale anche dopo la fine della crisi che stiamo vivendo ma per ragionare sullo stato nazione nel contesto di questa crisi dobbiamo indubbiamente registrare il fatto che sugli stati nazionali si è indirizzata una richiesta di protezione da parte di quote consistenti della popolazione contemporaneamente le politiche degli stati nazionali sono state improntate comprensibilmente a un governo dell'emergenza a un governo di un'emergenza almeno duplice sanitaria ed economico sociale. Nella congiuntura che stiamo vivendo io credo che sia necessario lavorare per ampliare in qualche modo perfino stravolgere la richiesta di protezione di cui parlavo poc'anzi penso che sia necessario reinterpretare il concetto stesso di protezione mh ed estenderlo a terreni fondamentali come ad esempio quello della salute e dell'istruzione mh che negli ultimi anni sono stati ferocemente attaccati e per certi aspetti anche destrutturati da politiche che in termini molto generali possiamo definire neoliberali perché questo ampliamento della richiesta di protezione questo scarto mh nella semantica stessa della protezione sia possibile è necessario un grande protagonismo sociale sono necessari lotte e movimenti sociali\n\nSpeaker 0: La diffusione del virus è anche il risultato della distensione globale. Che rapporto c'è tra questa pandemia e la globalizzazione? Se da un lato si è diffusa senza discriminazioni ed è diventata una questione globale dall'altro che disuguaglianze sta portando?\n\nSpeaker 1: La pandemia da covid 19 evidentemente un rapporto con la globalizzazione il modo e la grande velocità con cui il coronavirus si è diffuso nel mondo non possono essere compresi senza tenere presente quella esperienza di accelerata mobilità delle persone e delle merci che è un tratto costitutivo di quella che chiamiamo globalizzazione. Non sorprende dunque che il primo risultato della pandemia sia stata una crisi di mobilità, una crisi di mobilità che hanno pagato in primo luogo profughi emigranti ma che in fondo coinvolto tutti e tutte noi Penso che un punto di vista particolarmente efficace sulla pandemia sul suo rapporto con la mobilità e sulla crisi di mobilità che determinato sia offerto dalla logistica da quella logistica che per quanto molto spesso sia stata ignorata in questi anni dai sociologi dai ricercatori che si sono occupati di globalizzazione costituisce la condizione di possibilità di quest'ultima il suo scheletro infrastrutturale non è un caso che soprattutto nei primi giorni, nelle prime settimane dopo l'inizio della pandemia la logistica abbia rallentato le sue operazioni e si sia pervenuti in molti casi a un vero blocco di queste ultime ma contemporaneamente la logistica dalla movimentazione dei container all'ultimo miglio della consegna delle merci è stata in tutto il mondo praticamente dichiarata dai governi una attività economica essenziale con tutto quello che ne consegue.\n\nIl che ci fa comprendere come I processi globali che hanno influenzato caratterizzato la nostra vita negli ultimi decenni non siano certamente destinati ad arrestarsi con la pandemia. Sono certamente destinati a riorganizzarti, a riorganizzare anche la scala spaziale delle loro operazioni. Mi chiedete poi del rapporto tra la pandemia globale e le disuguaglianze. Beh diciamo intanto che la pandemia si è effettivamente globalizzata in tempi molto rapidi mh ma assunto forme molto diverse in diversi paesi in diverse regioni del mondo. Se guardiamo ad a 3 paesi pur diversi come gli Stati Uniti, il Brasile e l'India vediamo come la pandemia abbia colpito in modo selettivo e discriminatorio gruppi sociali specifici.\n\nGli afroamericani, I Latinex negli Stati Uniti, gli indigeni I neri I poveri in Brasile I poveri I senza casta in India più in generale è stato pubblicato a gennaio un rapporto dell'OCSpam sulla crescita delle diseguaglianze durante la pandemia. Un unico dato l'aumento di ricchezza dei 10 miliardari più ricchi del pianeta durante la pandemia sarebbe sufficiente ad assicurare la vaccinazione di tutti gli abitanti del pianeta effettivamente in questo anno abbiamo assistito a una vera e propria esplosione della diseguaglianza e della povertà di una disuguaglianza, di una povertà sempre più marcatamente razzializzate e sessualizzate. I poveri sono sempre più spesso appartenenti a cosiddette minoranze e donne. Questa è una tendenza di lungo periodo. Mh?\n\nÈ una tendenza che caratterizzato il capitalismo quantomeno dalla fine degli anni 70 dello scorso secolo. Ma è una tendenza che la pandemia accelera ed esaspera.\n\nSpeaker 0: La crisi pandemica aumenta le distanze e acuisce le distanze e acuisce le conflittualità. Come possono e che ruolo avranno le amministrazioni locali nell'agire su queste tensioni e disparità colmando I vuoti venuti a crearsi?\n\nSpeaker 1: Certamente in in una situazione caratterizzata da una crescita esponenziale della disuguaglianza e della povertà è facile immaginare che si moltiplichino I conflitti sono molte le analisi che vengono proposte e che sottolineano come nel mondo post pandemico il capitalismo in particolare sia destinato a essere caratterizzato sempre più da brutalità da violenza brutalità, violenza, disuguaglianza, povertà. Io direi che abbiamo un bisogno assoluto di conflitti per contrastare queste tendenze ma sono anche consapevole del fatto che I conflitti in una situazione di questo genere possono assumere caratteristiche distruttive. In ogni caso I conflitti di cui stiamo parlando sono destinati a esprimersi in modo privilegiato nelle città. Ecco io credo che la città possa divenire lo spazio al cui interni I conflitti vengono valorizzati nella loro capacità di produrre uguaglianza e libertà. Nella loro capacità di produrre una nuova dimensione della comunità della comunità urbana che si fondi sul contrasto di brutalità, violenza, disuguaglianza, povertà.\n\nDa questo punto di vista I governi locali I governi urbani, metropolitani possono fare moltissimo possono predisporre delle infrastrutture politiche potremmo dire capaci di agevolare questa produzione conflittuale di nuova uguaglianza, di nuova libertà, di nuova comunità urbana di cui abbiamo oggi un enorme bisogno e di cui continueremo ad avere bisogno dopo la fine della pandemia. Le amministrazioni locali peraltro possono svolgere un ruolo importante anche dentro processi che stanno profondamente trasformando come dire l'ordine e il disordine mondiale possono giocare un ruolo che definirei perfino di politica estera a partire da una precisa individuazione dei principali processi globali che attraversano le città.\n\nSpeaker 0: E infine ci può consigliare una buona pratica che faccia riflettere in questo momento storico particolare?\n\nSpeaker 1: Io ho sottolineato come in questo momento ci sia un enorme bisogno di una nuova stagione di protagonismo sociale, di movimenti, di conflitti che siano in grado di contestare e invertire tendenze che nella crisi pandemica come ho già detto sembrano prefigurare un nonno caratterizzato da diseguaglianza, da povertà da violenza e da brutalità. Dunque le buone pratiche che possono che posso consigliare si riferiscono a questo terreno al terreno dei movimenti dei conflitti. Una buona pratica è sicuramente lo sciopero dell'intera filiera di Amazon del 22 marzo in Italia. Una buona pratica è quella dello sciopero dei rider del 26 marzo che si propone peraltro come occasione di confluenza per altri soggetti colpiti dalla crisi ad esempio I lavoratori della cultura e dello spettacolo. Ecco credo che si debbano moltiplicare buone pratiche come queste e che sia a partire da queste buone pratiche che si debbano immaginare anche buone pratiche sul terreno dell'amministrazione locale del governo metropolitano\n\nSpeaker 0: Avete ascoltato I podcast della fondazione per l'Innovazione urbana riflessioni in parole sulle città che cambiano Coordinamento Chiara Faini contenuti Marta Zaramella e Flavia Tommasini produzione Silvia Santa Chiara e Luca Tarantini Montaggio Flavia Tommasini Trovi I nostri podcast su WWW punto fondazioneinnovazioneurbana punto it Questo podcast è stato realizzato nell'aprile del 2021", "paragraphs": [ { "sentences": [ { "text": "I podcast della Fondazione per l'Innovazione urbana riflessioni in parole sulle città che cambiano Appunti per una nuova partecipazione attivismo pratiche di prossimità e partecipazione democratica a confronto con le sfide urbane e globali.", "start": 5.2799997, "end": 28.064999 }, { "text": "Come cambia la partecipazione nel nuovo scenario globalizzato?", "start": 31.38, "end": 34.52 }, { "text": "Il ruolo dello Stato è cambiato e così anche quello della politica e della governance.", "start": 35.219997, "end": 39.559998 }, { "text": "Quali sono le nuove sfide?", "start": 40.1, "end": 41.64 }, { "text": "Ne abbiamo parlato in questa puntata con Sandro Mezzadra professore di filosofia politica all'Università degli Studi di Bologna la pandemia si è innestata in uno scenario globale complesso e in continua ridefinizione come si sta ridefinendo in questo la concezione dello stato nazione e che cambiamenti stiamo vedendo nel modo di governare I territori a livello internazionale e nazionale?", "start": 41.765003, "end": 65.58 } ], "start": 5.2799997, "end": 65.58, "num_words": 121.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Beh gli stati nazione sono stati investiti e travolti dalla pandemia e le risposte alla pandemia non possono essere semplicemente nazionali lo vediamo ad esempio a proposito della Gran Bretagna che viene spesso citata come esempio di una risposta efficace al virus quantomeno nella seconda fase attraverso I vaccini I vaccini che vengono somministrati in Gran Bretagna provengono da una filiera produttiva che si estende dall'India alla Ciociaria mi sembra un punto significativo e credo che questo tema mh peculiarmente transnazionale ripresenterà a livello globale anche dopo la fine della crisi che stiamo vivendo ma per ragionare sullo stato nazione nel contesto di questa crisi dobbiamo indubbiamente registrare il fatto che sugli stati nazionali si è indirizzata una richiesta di protezione da parte di quote consistenti della popolazione contemporaneamente le politiche degli stati nazionali sono state improntate comprensibilmente a un governo dell'emergenza a un governo di un'emergenza almeno duplice sanitaria ed economico sociale.", "start": 66.52, "end": 193.81999 }, { "text": "Nella congiuntura che stiamo vivendo io credo che sia necessario lavorare per ampliare in qualche modo perfino stravolgere la richiesta di protezione di cui parlavo poc'anzi penso che sia necessario reinterpretare il concetto stesso di protezione mh ed estenderlo a terreni fondamentali come ad esempio quello della salute e dell'istruzione mh che negli ultimi anni sono stati ferocemente attaccati e per certi aspetti anche destrutturati da politiche che in termini molto generali possiamo definire neoliberali perché questo ampliamento della richiesta di protezione questo scarto mh nella semantica stessa della protezione sia possibile è necessario un grande protagonismo sociale sono necessari lotte e movimenti sociali", "start": 193.81999, "end": 275.215 } ], "start": 66.52, "end": 275.215, "num_words": 257.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "La diffusione del virus è anche il risultato della distensione globale.", "start": 276.13, "end": 280.47 }, { "text": "Che rapporto c'è tra questa pandemia e la globalizzazione?", "start": 280.77, "end": 283.83 }, { "text": "Se da un lato si è diffusa senza discriminazioni ed è diventata una questione globale dall'altro che disuguaglianze sta portando?", "start": 284.53, "end": 292.815 } ], "start": 276.13, "end": 292.815, "num_words": 40.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "La pandemia da covid 19 evidentemente un rapporto con la globalizzazione il modo e la grande velocità con cui il coronavirus si è diffuso nel mondo non possono essere compresi senza tenere presente quella esperienza di accelerata mobilità delle persone e delle merci che è un tratto costitutivo di quella che chiamiamo globalizzazione.", "start": 293.915, "end": 343.22 }, { "text": "Non sorprende dunque che il primo risultato della pandemia sia stata una crisi di mobilità, una crisi di mobilità che hanno pagato in primo luogo profughi emigranti ma che in fondo coinvolto tutti e tutte noi Penso che un punto di vista particolarmente efficace sulla pandemia sul suo rapporto con la mobilità e sulla crisi di mobilità che determinato sia offerto dalla logistica da quella logistica che per quanto molto spesso sia stata ignorata in questi anni dai sociologi dai ricercatori che si sono occupati di globalizzazione costituisce la condizione di possibilità di quest'ultima il suo scheletro infrastrutturale non è un caso che soprattutto nei primi giorni, nelle prime settimane dopo l'inizio della pandemia la logistica abbia rallentato le sue operazioni e si sia pervenuti in molti casi a un vero blocco di queste ultime ma contemporaneamente la logistica dalla movimentazione dei container all'ultimo miglio della consegna delle merci è stata in tutto il mondo praticamente dichiarata dai governi una attività economica essenziale con tutto quello che ne consegue.", "start": 344.24002, "end": 464.575 } ], "start": 293.915, "end": 464.575, "num_words": 222.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Il che ci fa comprendere come I processi globali che hanno influenzato caratterizzato la nostra vita negli ultimi decenni non siano certamente destinati ad arrestarsi con la pandemia.", "start": 464.715, "end": 486.36 }, { "text": "Sono certamente destinati a riorganizzarti, a riorganizzare anche la scala spaziale delle loro operazioni.", "start": 486.745, "end": 496.04498 }, { "text": "Mi chiedete poi del rapporto tra la pandemia globale e le disuguaglianze.", "start": 496.66498, "end": 507.41 }, { "text": "Beh diciamo intanto che la pandemia si è effettivamente globalizzata in tempi molto rapidi mh ma assunto forme molto diverse in diversi paesi in diverse regioni del mondo.", "start": 509.07, "end": 527.415 }, { "text": "Se guardiamo ad a 3 paesi pur diversi come gli Stati Uniti, il Brasile e l'India vediamo come la pandemia abbia colpito in modo selettivo e discriminatorio gruppi sociali specifici.", "start": 527.415, "end": 547.02496 } ], "start": 464.715, "end": 547.02496, "num_words": 112.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Gli afroamericani, I Latinex negli Stati Uniti, gli indigeni I neri I poveri in Brasile I poveri I senza casta in India più in generale è stato pubblicato a gennaio un rapporto dell'OCSpam sulla crescita delle diseguaglianze durante la pandemia.", "start": 547.165, "end": 571.49 }, { "text": "Un unico dato l'aumento di ricchezza dei 10 miliardari più ricchi del pianeta durante la pandemia sarebbe sufficiente ad assicurare la vaccinazione di tutti gli abitanti del pianeta effettivamente in questo anno abbiamo assistito a una vera e propria esplosione della diseguaglianza e della povertà di una disuguaglianza, di una povertà sempre più marcatamente razzializzate e sessualizzate.", "start": 571.49, "end": 600.84 }, { "text": "I poveri sono sempre più spesso appartenenti a cosiddette minoranze e donne.", "start": 601.3, "end": 610.555 }, { "text": "Questa è una tendenza di lungo periodo.", "start": 610.555, "end": 612.735 }, { "text": "Mh?", "start": 612.875, "end": 613.195 } ], "start": 547.165, "end": 613.195, "num_words": 117.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "È una tendenza che caratterizzato il capitalismo quantomeno dalla fine degli anni 70 dello scorso secolo.", "start": 613.195, "end": 622.63 }, { "text": "Ma è una tendenza che la pandemia accelera ed esaspera.", "start": 622.63, "end": 627.93 } ], "start": 613.195, "end": 627.93, "num_words": 26.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "La crisi pandemica aumenta le distanze e acuisce le distanze e acuisce le conflittualità.", "start": 628.39, "end": 633.305 }, { "text": "Come possono e che ruolo avranno le amministrazioni locali nell'agire su queste tensioni e disparità colmando I vuoti venuti a crearsi?", "start": 634.245, "end": 642.185 } ], "start": 628.39, "end": 642.185, "num_words": 35.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Certamente in in una situazione caratterizzata da una crescita esponenziale della disuguaglianza e della povertà è facile immaginare che si moltiplichino I conflitti sono molte le analisi che vengono proposte e che sottolineano come nel mondo post pandemico il capitalismo in particolare sia destinato a essere caratterizzato sempre più da brutalità da violenza brutalità, violenza, disuguaglianza, povertà.", "start": 642.805, "end": 694.04504 }, { "text": "Io direi che abbiamo un bisogno assoluto di conflitti per contrastare queste tendenze ma sono anche consapevole del fatto che I conflitti in una situazione di questo genere possono assumere caratteristiche distruttive.", "start": 694.04504, "end": 714.7 }, { "text": "In ogni caso I conflitti di cui stiamo parlando sono destinati a esprimersi in modo privilegiato nelle città.", "start": 715.16003, "end": 728.605 }, { "text": "Ecco io credo che la città possa divenire lo spazio al cui interni I conflitti vengono valorizzati nella loro capacità di produrre uguaglianza e libertà.", "start": 728.825, "end": 742.61 }, { "text": "Nella loro capacità di produrre una nuova dimensione della comunità della comunità urbana che si fondi sul contrasto di brutalità, violenza, disuguaglianza, povertà.", "start": 742.94495, "end": 757.045 } ], "start": 642.805, "end": 757.045, "num_words": 155.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Da questo punto di vista I governi locali I governi urbani, metropolitani possono fare moltissimo possono predisporre delle infrastrutture politiche potremmo dire capaci di agevolare questa produzione conflittuale di nuova uguaglianza, di nuova libertà, di nuova comunità urbana di cui abbiamo oggi un enorme bisogno e di cui continueremo ad avere bisogno dopo la fine della pandemia.", "start": 757.345, "end": 797.76996 }, { "text": "Le amministrazioni locali peraltro possono svolgere un ruolo importante anche dentro processi che stanno profondamente trasformando come dire l'ordine e il disordine mondiale possono giocare un ruolo che definirei perfino di politica estera a partire da una precisa individuazione dei principali processi globali che attraversano le città.", "start": 798.07, "end": 836.35504 } ], "start": 757.345, "end": 836.35504, "num_words": 104.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "E infine ci può consigliare una buona pratica che faccia riflettere in questo momento storico particolare?", "start": 836.97504, "end": 842.835 } ], "start": 836.97504, "end": 842.835, "num_words": 16.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Io ho sottolineato come in questo momento ci sia un enorme bisogno di una nuova stagione di protagonismo sociale, di movimenti, di conflitti che siano in grado di contestare e invertire tendenze che nella crisi pandemica come ho già detto sembrano prefigurare un nonno caratterizzato da diseguaglianza, da povertà da violenza e da brutalità.", "start": 843.215, "end": 883.29004 }, { "text": "Dunque le buone pratiche che possono che posso consigliare si riferiscono a questo terreno al terreno dei movimenti dei conflitti.", "start": 883.91003, "end": 893.895 }, { "text": "Una buona pratica è sicuramente lo sciopero dell'intera filiera di Amazon del 22 marzo in Italia.", "start": 893.955, "end": 902.07 }, { "text": "Una buona pratica è quella dello sciopero dei rider del 26 marzo che si propone peraltro come occasione di confluenza per altri soggetti colpiti dalla crisi ad esempio I lavoratori della cultura e dello spettacolo.", "start": 902.15, "end": 918.725 }, { "text": "Ecco credo che si debbano moltiplicare buone pratiche come queste e che sia a partire da queste buone pratiche che si debbano immaginare anche buone pratiche sul terreno dell'amministrazione locale del governo metropolitano", "start": 918.945, "end": 936.74 } ], "start": 843.215, "end": 936.74, "num_words": 158.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Avete ascoltato I podcast della fondazione per l'Innovazione urbana riflessioni in parole sulle città che cambiano Coordinamento Chiara Faini contenuti Marta Zaramella e Flavia Tommasini produzione Silvia Santa Chiara e Luca Tarantini Montaggio Flavia Tommasini Trovi I nostri podcast su 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