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Wir sprechen heute im öFIT Podcast restart digital darüber, wie man die Vernetzung von Govtech, und der öffentlichen Verwaltung fördern kann. Wir, das bin ich, Franziska Weiser und meine beiden Co Hosts Sophie Vogt, wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiterin im Kompetenzzentrum öffentlicher IT mit den Themenschwerpunkten innovativer Staat, Demokratie und e-Government. Hallo Sophie. Hallo. Und alter Bekannter Doktor Mike Weber, Trendforscher und stellvertretender Leiter des öfid. Hallo Mike. Hallo Franziska. Ihr 2, wenn wir mal im Datingbild bleiben wollen, da gehört's ja dazu, dass man sich im Idealfall selbst beschreibt, auch ehrlich beschreibt. Wie würdet ihr denn Civic Tech und Govtech beschreiben? Einfach für Leute, die das noch nie gehört haben. Ja, also Civike ist eigentlich das, was man so in dem Bereich Demokratie ansehen würde oder E-Democracy. Also die versuchen einfach stärker, die Bürger*innen mit der Verwaltung zusammenzubringen. Da geht's auch Open Government. Es macht ja Sinn, überhaupt zu wissen, was die Bevölkerung raucht und benötigt, damit dann entschieden werden kann, wie darauf reagiert wird durch die Verwaltung und dafür können dann zum Beispiel GovTech Lösung genutzt werden. Ja, da werden. Ja, da geht's nicht so stark Effizienz, wie zum Beispiel es bei Gav tech geht. Ich denke, Gav tech zahlt halt auf diese Probleme, die irgendwie auf Effizienz sind getrimmt sind, ein, während Civic Tech halt eben diese überhaupt ja die Stimmung auch der Bürger*innen mit einfangen kann. Also das ist einfach so 2 unterschiedliche Aspekte, wo die Verwaltung auch beides noch Hilfe gebrauchen kann, sag ich mal. Und wenn es halt nicht miteinander irgendwie abgestimmt ist, dann ist es halt auch schwieriger, das insgesamt gut funktionieren zu lassen. Und ich glaube, was halt auch wichtig ist, ist zu sagen, ja, die können gut zusammenarbeiten, aber es macht natürlich jetzt keinen Sinn, dass jetzt 1 der Akteure an 'nem Problem arbeitet, das er gar nicht hat. Also wenn, dann macht es nur Sinn, dass die zusammenarbeiten bei dem Problem, die alle 3 hat. Genau. Mhm. Okay, also speziell, wenn's dann eine Anwendung geht, die wirklich in der breiten Masse bei Bürger*innen funktionieren muss. Und da hätte einfach Civic Tech diese Expertise, Sachen wirklich in die in die Fläche zu bringen und nutzerfreundlich zu machen und solche Sachen, ne? Also da könnte sich die Zivilgesellschaft organisieren und man könnte, ich weiß nicht, ich stell mir jetzt irgendwas vor, aber sone Kiezumfrage machen mit wo hättet ihr denn gerne Grünflächen oder so was. Wär wär das Civic Tech? Genau, also so was so Plattformen, auf denen man sich austauschen kann, auf denen man auch abstimmen kann. Das ist zum Beispiel so was typisch Civic Tech mäßiges. Okay und GavTech dann im Vergleich dazu? GavTech ist eher angesiedelt auf dieser Seite, Verwaltungsdigitalisierung effizienter gestalten. Also die bieten ja digitale Lösungen an für zum Beispiel Bürgerdienste, aber auch so für Verwaltungsaufgaben, das Inneren eher. Also da geht's wirklich diese Effizienzsteigerung mehr. Und die Unternehmen, die da angesiedelt sind, das sind typischerweise Start ups oder mit was für Unternehmen hat man's da zu tun? Genau, also ganz häufig sind es Start ups, die Lösungen anbieten, die auch einfach 'n bisschen ja spezialisierter auf Verwaltungen zugeschnitten sind als jetzt so allgemeine Technologien, die auch von so größeren Firmen angeboten werden. Also die spezialisieren sich häufig stärker auf so kleinere Nischenprobleme oder so, genau. Und weil ich jetzt grade gesagt hab in der Anmoderation, die finden nicht immer so zusammen. Eigentlich ist es ja wirklich naheliegend, weil die ja wie füreinander gemacht sind. Also es gibt wahrscheinlich schon Zusammenarbeit zwischen diesen 3 Bereichen Govtech, Civic Tech und Verwaltung, oder? Ja, also es gibt schon Zusammenarbeit zwischen Govtech und der Verwaltung. Gibt mit Sicherheit auch Zusammenarbeit zwischen Civic Tech und der Verwaltung, aber es ist eben grade der Punkt, dass alle 3 Akteure eher selten zusammenarbeiten. Okay, also es geht nicht so Zweierkonstellation, sondern im Idealfall eine Dreierkonstellation. Genau, ja. Also beides letztendlich. Ja und wenn man mal so guckt, was was steht hinter den Geschäftsmodellen, also welche Menschen und vielleicht auch Arbeitsweisen stehen hinter den Begriffen, ist das sehr unterschiedlich? Ich glaube schon. Die Themenstellung, die Aufgabenstellung ist hier sicherlich sehr gleich die Zielsetzung, ein besseres Zusammenleben zu ermöglichen oder Effizienzgewinn zu realisieren. Aber die Arbeitsweise, die Du gerade angesprochen hast, ist natürlich höchst unterschiedlich zwischen den 3 Akteuren. Das Das da weiß man gar nicht, wo man anfangen soll. Also bei der Verwaltung in in klaren, festen Strukturen, beim Start-up, zumindest dem Klischee nach, sehr agil, sehr schnell, sehr innovativ. Bei Civic Tech dann eher gemeinwohlorientiert, zusammenarbeitend, aber natürlich auch durch diese technische Expertise dann immer in 1 gewissen Nische sich bewegend. Also da da eröffnen sich riesengroße Welten, die man irgendwie zusammenbringen muss. Mhm. Viele spannende Themen, die Du grade genannt hast. Bei Civic Tech, da wär ja zum Beispiel auch denkbar, dass Ehrenamtliche aktiv sind, dass andere vielleicht sehr junge Programmierer und dann in der Verwaltung ja alle Altersstufen, ne, und ganz unterschiedliche Zugänge zu Digitalisierung. Also Also Ja. Mal son Bild zu haben, ist das natürlich genau richtig, was Du beschreibst. Genauso mit diesen Klischees kann man ganz gut arbeiten, die Probleme aufzuzeigen. Ja, sie können auf jeden Fall. Es gibt ja auch gute Beispiele in dem Bereich, wo das hervorragend funktioniert halt gerade über diese Zielsetzung, aber Also gemeinsame Ziel haben ist ja auch im Privatleben kein Fehler. Aber das ändert ja nichts daran, dass man dann in dem Zusammenarbeiten dann mit diesen unterschiedlichen Kulturen umgehen muss, mit unterschiedlicher Sprache, mit unterschiedlichen Anforderungen, mit unterschiedlichen Zum Beispiel Karrierewegen, auch das spielt ja eine Rolle. Also Start-up will vielleicht schnell wachsen, viel verkaufen und in der Verwaltung sind dann doch eher andere Kriterien wichtig. Also dass vielleicht son Bewusstsein einfach hilft, ne, für dieses wie ticken wir, wie ticken die anderen, dann bestimmte Konflikte antizipieren zu können oder da mehr 'n Fokus draufzulegen, dass wir da wirklich richtig gut drüber reden. Also so was wär dann eigentlich das Ziel oder? Das ist sicherlich 'n ganz wichtiges Instrument und als einen kleinen Beitrag haben wir dann ja auch diesen Workshop durchgeführt, mal ein paar Akteure zusammenzubringen. Sich gegenseitig auszutauschen und Verständnis für den anderen zu entwickeln, ist da sicherlich ein wichtiger Punkt. Es ändert natürlich nichts da dran, dass die Verwaltung dann doch wieder verwaltungsförmig danach entscheiden muss, aber mit diesem Grundverständnis versteht man vielleicht besser, warum sich jetzt ein Start-up Warum er sich nicht bewirbt auf eine Ausschreibung oder so was? Wir kommen gleich zu dem Workshop, aber vielleicht davor, weil Du auch gesagt hast, es gibt schon Beispiele für Zusammenarbeit. Ich nehm auch an erfolgreiche Zusammenarbeit. Sophie Mike könnte dir vielleicht mal so ein oder 2 Beispiele nennen, wo's schon klappt, in welchen Bereichen? Ja, also das Problem ist son bisschen, es gibt noch keine gute Sammlung dieser Zusammenarbeit. Also wo man jetzt sagen könnte, ah, da sieht man jetzt immer direkt, wo es grade gut funktioniert. Das ist son bisschen Problem, weil wir kriegen natürlich schon so mit, dass es Berichte auch von Start ups gibt, die zum Beispiel toll mit der Verwaltung zusammenarbeitet. Das ist natürlich dann häufig erst mal eher aus der Start up Sicht auch präsentiert. Da bräuchte es einfach auch, glaub ich, noch 'n bisschen mehr Übersicht darüber, wie jetzt zum Beispiel Civic Tech und Verwaltung, wo so Best Practices vielleicht schon entwickelt wurden. Deshalb jetzt so ein konkretes Beispiel zu nennen, ist da mal gar nicht so einfach, aber nichtsdestotrotz gibt es die. Und man muss sich son bisschen in den Austausch mit den einzelnen Start ups, mit den einzelnen Civic Tech Organisationen begeben, dann davon zu lernen. Deshalb ist halt auch dieser Austausch so wichtig. Mhm. Es gibt ja auch schon ein paar Strukturen. Es gibt ja zum Beispiel Förderprogramme oder Finanzierungsprogramme für Gavtec Start ups, wo man dann in sehr schönen Tagungen immer die die ganzen Geschäftsideen sich angucken kann. Also es ist nach meiner Wahrnehmung ist es im Bereich Gavtec ist die Sichtbarkeit deutlich höher, bei Civiktag sind es dann natürlich auch oft lokale Initiativen. Da ist die die Sichtbarkeit 'n bisschen schwieriger. Ja. Also es wird eben nicht systematisch erfasst im Sinne von, da gab's ein Wahnsinnsprojekt in der Gemeinde Krefeld, davon wissen wir vielleicht im Zweifelsfall nicht, ne, weil's nicht sone Datenbank gibt, wo das alles erfasst wird. Genau. Wie ist es denn generell von der Struktur der Zusammenarbeit? Also es gibt ja, wenn wir im kommerziellen Bereich denken, da könnte ja 'n sehr großer Techkonzern vielleicht in eine kleine App investieren, weil vielleicht mit der Absicht, die dann mal zu übernehmen oder so was. Solche Zusammenarbeiten sind aber ja gar nicht denkbar, ne, zwischen Verwaltung und jetzt diesen Start ups im Bereich Govtech und CiviTech. Doch. Ja, nee, weil Du grad gesagt hast, diese Förderprogramme, also das noch mal besser zu verstehen, also wie wie kann man sich auch an an einander beteiligen, wirklich auch auf 'ner finanziellen Ebene? Ja, also das, woran ich gedacht habe, sind Oder es gibt ja auch mittlerweile Institutionen, die versuchen, dieses das 'n Match zu befördern. Denkt man nur an Gaff der Campus hier in Berlin oder mittlerweile auch in den Ländern, ja, immer weiterverbreitet. Wobei man dann gezielte Austauschformate einrichtet oder halt auch gezielte Unterstützungsformate. Früher Public Deutschland hat zum Beispiel so ein Unterstützungsformat gehabt. Ich weiß gar nicht, ob das weiter fortgeführt wird, jetzt, wo Sie sich geändert haben. Da bin ich gerade erwischte mich aufn falschen Fuß. Das ist dann die Seite, den den Gründungsprozess der Gavtex zu unterstützen und eine Sichtbarkeit zu erzeugen. Aber wie bei Start ups insgesamt auch, ist das Feld da natürlich sehr divers. Also das kann auch mal eine Ausgründung von großen Unternehmen sein. In der Regel wird es oder das Bild ist tatsächlich ein neu gegründetes Unternehmen, ein klassisches klassisches Start-up, aber es kann, wie schon gesagt, auch durchaus eine Ausgründung sein. Ja, aber genau, es wär jetzt nicht so, dass irgendwie 'n Unternehmen hat eine tolle Parkraumbewirtschaftungslösung und dann kauft die Verwaltung dieses Unternehmen oder so was, ne? Das ist ja, so was gäb's ja nicht. Ja, das ist, glaube ich, ich weiß gar nicht, ob es dafür überhaupt ein Beispiel gibt. Vielleicht bei bei Digitalservice könnte man das so sehen, dass es da so passiert ist, aber das ist die absolute Ausnahme. Nein, normalerweise ist es dann so, dass dann diese Unternehmen beauftragt werden von auch von von vielen Verwaltungen. So es gibt zum Beispiel ein Start-up, das mit Facility Management, also mit der Verwaltung von öffentlichen Gebäuden, sehr viele Erfolge gefeiert hatte und auch von vielen Kommunen eingekauft wird, aber dann als Service, als Dienst. Dann kommen wir doch mal zu diesem Workshop. Der war im Februar 2024. Wie lief das dann ab? Also wer war da? Wie war die Resonanz? Also da waren vor allem ganz viele Leute eingeladen aus den unterschiedlichen Bereichen. Wir haben da versucht, wirklich aus Civic Tech, Gavtech und Verwaltung so Leute zusammenzubringen, auch ungefähr gleich verteilt, so verschiedene Stimmungen einzufangen. Aus dem GAPTEC Bereich waren das vor allem Leute, die halt auch in 'nem Start-up arbeiten oder ein Start-up gegründet haben. Aus dem Civic Tech Bereich waren das auch Mitarbeitende aus Civic Tech Initiativen Und dann hatten wir noch einige Leute so aus der Berliner Verwaltung beispielsweise auch. Also wir hatten auch 'n bisschen geschaut, dass wir lokale Start ups mit einladen. Letztendlich wurden es auch 'n paar, die noch weiter hergereist waren, aber genau, wir hatten so versucht, da eine gute Mischung zu erzielen. Und wir haben sehr, sehr viel darüber gesprochen, was so gemeinsame Probleme sind, was vielleicht eigene Probleme sind, einfach sich 'n bisschen anzunähern. Natürlich gibt's dann auch Sachen, die vielleicht den einen mehr interessieren als den anderen oder auch Probleme, die jetzt nicht alle betreffen. Aber am Ende hatten wir dann halt doch einige gesammelt, die alle als problematisch angesehen haben und über die wurde dann noch vertieft diskutiert. 1 der Problemfelder, was ihr da ermittelt habt, ist, glaub ich, grad auch schon son bisschen angeklungen, sind diese verschiedenen Arbeitskulturen, auch Methoden. Ich glaub, Mindset, Differenz habt ihr das genannt. Könnt ihr noch mal genauer beschreiben, worin genau diese Differenz besteht? Also wenn man auf der Verwaltungseite guckt, ist ja ein ein geflügeltes Wort mittlerweile, dass Erfolg in der Verwaltung Fehlervermeidung bedeutet. Das ist son bisschen der der Grundmindset, den man häufig in öffentlichen Verwaltungen findet. Also man darf alles machen, nur nicht schlecht vom Rechnungshof geprüft werden, es auf die Spitze zu treiben. Mhm. Hatten wir schon häufiger hier im Podcast, oder? Ja. Vom Rechnungshof. Doch, noch. Wie Aber also sone sone generelle Risikoscheue dann Genau, genau. Mhm. Also noch mal, wir haben nichts gegen den Rechnungshof. Vielleicht noch mal dazu mal eine Folge. Aber so eine gewisse Risikoscheue trifft es eigentlich hervorragend, die dann natürlich ein bisschen im im Spannungsfeld, nicht Widerspruch zu sagen, im Spannungsfeld dazu steht, jetzt ein 'n junges, innovatives Unternehmen zu beauftragen mit 'ner frischen, neuen Idee, wo man bei Start ups ja nicht so genau weiß, ob sie nächstes Jahr auch noch existieren und die Lösung ist noch nicht bewährt, ist vielleicht noch nirgendwo anders im Einsatz oder nur in wenigen Fällen. Und da da sieht man dann schon, dass der Match in dem Fall, also in dieser Risikobereitschaft, häufig sehr, sehr schwierig ist. Gibt dann natürlich auch 'n paar Auswege raus, aber erst mal erst mal diese Gegenüberstellung ist herausfordernd, ja. Und würdest Du sagen, ist das eine Differenz, die vor allem in den Köpfen ist, also dass da auch Ängste sind, die vielleicht unbegründet sind oder sind's wirklich Strukturen, die geändert werden müssen? Das ist eine ganz, ganz spannende Frage. Ich glaube, es sind auch die Strukturen, die da geändert werden müssen. Das hat, was ich eben schon mal leise angeteasert habe, so was mit wie Karrierewege. Was bewerte ich als Erfolg innerhalb von Verwaltungen? Und da ist ja Weil in diesem Bewertungssystem, die sind auch relativ auf auf Bewahrendes und auf konservativ ausgelegt und erstaunlich wenig oftmals auf Zielerreichung, also auf auf Effektivität des Verwaltungshandelns, auf Wirkungsorientierung und also etwas. Und wenn ich mich daran orientiere, wenn ich in der Verwaltung Karriere machen will, dann sollte ich halt möglichst eben grade nicht innovativ und risikoreich irgendwo reingehen, sondern lieber das Altbewährte befördern. Also und dementsprechend, also es ist sehr stark eine Mindset Geschichte, also eine eine persönliche Geschichte, aber es wird durch die Strukturen auch unterstützt. Also in der Beziehung ist es ja immer so, es liegt immer 'n bisschen an beiden. Also jetzt auf der Seite von den Start ups, gibt's da auch Dinge im Kopf oder in den Strukturen, die vielleicht änderbar wären und dies unnötig kompliziert machen? Wir haben ja immer den den Fokus auf den öffentlichen Sektor, deswegen gehen wir immer Ach so, ja, die können wir nicht anschaffen, meinst Du den anderen, deswegen schauen wir bei uns. Ja, ja. Nein, trotzdem, trotzdem. Also natürlich gibt es, würde ich genauso wieder sehen, genauso wie in der wie in jeder Kommunikation, müssen natürlich beide Seiten aufeinander zugehen. Und wenn es dann irgendwelche Verwaltungsanforderungen gibt, die die einfach unumstößlich sind, weil sie im Gesetz stehen, dann muss natürlich 'n Gav Tech oder 'n Civic Tech das auch verstehen und berücksichtigen. Oder wenn man die technische Seite sich anguckt, natürlich, wenn man ein ein System anbietet, muss sich das natürlich auch in die Verwaltungs IT Landschaft einfügen. Und das sind häufig Aspekte, die bei bei Start ups eher weniger Berücksichtigung finden. Mhm. Also son Verständnis für Zwänge, die's halt gibt, ne, und Anforderungen. Genau. Mhm. Und auch Zeiträume ist ja auch noch 'n ganz wichtiger Punkt. Ja. Sophie, wie weit seid ihr denn da reingegangen? Also seid ihr nur zu der Problembeschreibung beschreibung gegangen oder habt ihr dann auch wirklich gesagt, guck mal, diese Maßnahme könnte für uns funktionieren und diese auch? Also 'n großen Teil hat schon diese Problemaufnahme, sag ich mal, eingenommen, einfach dadurch, dass ja alle das erste Mal son bisschen miteinander in Kontakt gekommen sind. Wir haben aber dann auch versucht, uns darüber auszutauschen, was eigentlich so gute Sachen sind, die schon aufgefallen sind. Also ich weiß zum Beispiel zu diesem Thema Fehlerkultur etablieren und so weiter, dass es dann Beispiele gibt, wo es halt auch wirklich so Runden gibt, wo sich einfach mal nur darüber ausgetauscht wird, was eigentlich gerade alles doof läuft, sage ich mal so salopp. Weil das kann ja aber auch son bisschen noch mal die Motivation wieder fördern, gerade in so längerwierigen Wandelungsprozessen, die halt ja die digitale Transformation einfach ist. Es ging halt auch stärker darum, erst die Ideen zu sammeln und das mehr so als Impulse zu betrachten, die dann halt auch noch weiter diskutiert werden können. Dementsprechend hab ich jetzt nicht die perfekte Lösung, 1 dieser Probleme direkt ranzugehen. Aber es gibt auch immer wieder positive Beispiele. Also zum Beispiel in dem Papier, was ihr dann nach dem Workshop veröffentlicht habt, steht so so was wie Fuck up Night drin, ne? Ne? Ja, genau. Man son Format dann auch für die Verwaltung. Also gibt's das schon oder könnte es das nur geben? Nee, das gibt's schon. Das nennt sich Gescheiter weiter. Ja. Und das ist, also da hatten die verschiedene Verwaltungsmitarbeitende sehr positiv zum Beispiel von berichtet, dass das schon auch recht etabliert, sag ich mal, nicht. Zum Beispiel von berichtet, dass das schon auch recht etabliert sei. Ich mein, ich war jetzt selber nicht da, ich kann jetzt keine persönliche Einschätzung da liefern, aber von unserem Workshop teilnehmen wurde das sehr gelobt. Ich find auch den Namen schon brillant. Ja. Weil genau darum geht es ja, durch das Scheitern zu lernen und dann besser weiterzumachen. Ja. Ist ja auch aus Organisationsperspektive ganz wichtig, dass man aus diesen nicht so gut gelaufenen Projekten lernt und auch ändern kann. Und das, was Mike grade genannt hat, also dieser dieser Karriereaspekt, also dieses ich komme eher durch Bewahrung voran als durch Innovation. Also gibt's da auch schon Formate, wo man sagt, das ist einfach die Beförderung hängt eher daran, bring ich Innovation voran in meinem Bereich? Also das, was es ja gibt, ist in auf verschiedenen Ebenen eine stärkere Wirkungsorientierung in die Verwaltungsarbeit zu bringen. Und darüber dann mit Instrumenten, mit weicheren Instrumenten wie Zielvereinbarungen und so etwas dann eher in solchen Dimensionen auch punkten zu können. Aber da ist natürlich, da hängt mir ja auch wieder 'n ganzer Rattenschwanz dran. Das ist natürlich auch der Mindset der der Führungskräfte und die vorgegebenen Strukturen. Also das ist ein langsamer Wandlungsprozess, denk ich. Okay. Das zweite Problem, was ihr beschreibt, würd ich jetzt mal unter der Überschrift Unwissen behandeln. Da geht's darum, dass die Verwaltung oft als hermetisch und undurchschaubar wahrgenommen wird von außen. Also kann ich mich auch total reinversetzen, zum Beispiel, wenn man son Ausschreibung sieht, ne, und sich denkt so, oh Gott, ich lass es einfach gleich, weil's so kompliziert ist. Hab ich das grad richtig beschrieben? Ja, vollkommen richtig. Ich hab da immer sein kafkareskes Bild vor Augen, ja, vor dem Gericht. Das ist ja auch sehr verständlich. Also, Verwaltung sind hochkomplexe Organisationen, die vielfältige Aufgaben haben, die nicht besonders oft nicht besonders stark darin sind, nach außen zu kommunizieren, vorsichtig formuliert. Und dann auch ja auch noch was von einem wollen klassischerweise Und dementsprechend, dass man dann son Zum Beispiel ein ein ganz kleines Instrument ist ja, sobald man mit der Verwaltung irgendwas zu tun hat, kriegt man häufig, wenn man's beantragt oder sich auf sone Ausschreibung bewirbt, kriegt man häufig sehr wenig Feedback innerhalb des Prozesses. Sondern reicht man halt seine seine Unterlagen da ein, den Auftrag zu bekommen und kriegt dann x Monate später mitgeteilt, tut mir leid, 'n anderer ist es geworden oder auch, man kriegt den Zuschlag, kann ja auch mal passieren. Aber dazwischen die Kommunikation dazwischen ist sehr häufig in sehr vielen Prozessen, in sehr vielen Formaten halt sehr schwach ausgeprägt und das verstärkt natürlich diesen Eindruck, dass man da vor einem Monolithen steht, den man nicht verstehen kann. Ja, also diese sprichwörtlichen Mühlen, ne und dass es eigentlich besser wär, wenn die eine Mühle zu Ende gemahlen hätte, dann sagt's, okay, von meiner Seite sieht's gut aus, ich geborene's mal weiter in den Bereich, weiß ich nicht was, Brandschutz oder irgendwas. Also dass man so Zwischenschritte mitgeteilt bekommt, Ja. Ist immer gut. Ja, das wär großartig. Also im im gesamten Bereich, also von von klassischen Anträgen bis hin auch so in Kooperationsbeziehungen, in Geschäftsanbahnungen ist das natürlich auch für die Unternehmen eine ganz wichtige Information. Bin ich noch im Rennen? Hab ich noch eine Chance oder ich mich anders umgucken? Na ja, auf jeden Fall, weil da hängt ja, also für grade für Start ups, die ja finanziell immer 'n bisschen wackelig aufgestellt sind, die können so was ja noch viel schlechter aussitzen als jetzt vielleicht 'n großes Unternehmen, ne? Ja, genau, genau. Also da sind wir beim Thema Geschwindigkeit. Start ups sind ja oder das Wichtigste ist ja der erste Auftrag, den man möglichst schnell reinholen muss. Und wenn man dann Ausschreibungsprozesse auf der anderen Seite hat, die sich über Monate hinziehen, dann kann alleine das schon ein Riesenproblem werden. Sophie, kannst Du noch mal 'n bisschen erzählen, wie wurde das dann in dem Workshop? Also Du hast ja wahrscheinlich noch so die die Formulierungen auch im Ohr, ne? Also wie wie haben die das da beschrieben? Also ich glaub, das Wort, was am häufigsten gefallen ist, ist einfach kompliziert, also grad bei diesem Ausschreibung und bei der Ausschreibungsthematik bei Vergabe, dass es halt einfach unheimlich komplex ist und man ist ja auch an die Sprache schon allein nicht gewöhnt, wenn man jetzt damit nicht so viel zu tun hat. Es war schon ja schon der der erste Schritt, wo man sich erst mal denkt, hm, hab ich das jetzt überhaupt hier richtig verstanden, was ich hier gerade gelesen habe? Dementsprechend haben sich da glaube ich auch einige etwas überwältigt von gefühlt. Auf der anderen Seite gibt es ja auch schon Start-up, die jetzt schon 'n bisschen mehr Erfahrung gesammelt haben. Also man sieht auch, das ist jetzt kein unüberwindbares Hindernis oder so, aber man muss sich halt eben damit auseinandersetzen und man braucht auch gewisse Hilfestellungen und das ist halt, glaub ich, 'n wichtiger Punkt, dass man einfach sagt, okay, ich lass mich davon jetzt nicht auch total abschrecken, weil wir werden das jetzt wahrscheinlich nicht superschnell gelöst kriegen, dass das plötzlich alles ganz toll und offen ist und wir es alles verstehen können, sondern dass wir jetzt auch erst mal Maßnahmen etablieren, die jetzt schnell hilfreich sind. Also dass wir zum Beispiel Ansprechpartner für Start ups irgendwie etablieren oder dass man so Onlineangebote auch nutzt, die das schon 'n bisschen besser zusammenfassen wie Co Inno oder so. Also da gibt es ja schon Sachen. Mhm. Also dass man so was wie son Ausschreibungslotsen vielleicht hätte, ne, den man dann ansprechen kann und sagen kann, hm, ich weiß nicht, ob ich das richtig verstanden oder so. Ja, genau. Mhm. Aber ohne Ausschreibung geht's ja nicht, ne. Das ist ja schon 'n Format, da ist die Verwaltung einfach Verwaltung und es muss auch so sein, oder? Also es gibt ja schon auch Vergabeverfahren, die einfach Also das ist immer eine Frage des Preises letztendlich auch. Ja und also einerseits des Preises, je geringer der Wert, desto leichter ist es im Zweifel. Aber es gibt ja auch innovative Vergabeverfahren, die ja eigentlich dafür gedacht sind, genau solche solche Prozesse zu unterstützen, aber die dann andersrum wieder eine andere Komplexität entfalten und dadurch dann noch langwieriger und noch schwieriger werden. Okay. Also das ist das ist ein son son Problem, wo man auch relativ, also wo man sehr viel verändern kann, aber wo wo dann wirklich diese unterschiedlichen Zielsetzungen auch voll aufeinanderprallen, weil das Vergaberecht sehr lange geprägt war von Korruptionsprävention Ja. Im Kern und dementsprechend alles sehr stark darauf ausgerichtet war, dass die Prozesse im im Grunde transparent und sehr marktorientiert, wie das dann heißt, passieren. Das ist natürlich in der Wirtschaft ganz anders, ne. Also wenn wenn da jemand mit Geld eine tolle Idee finden hört und dann kann er mal sagen, das machen wir jetzt mal eben. Das geht in der Verwaltung in der Tat nicht. Aber es gibt gute Instrumente, wie man dieses zwischenzeitlich extrem starre Vergabewesen ein bisschen auflockern kann. Und gibt's da auch sone Konkurrenzsituation, frag ich mich jetzt grade, also dass man mit 'nem Wirtschaftsunternehmen, was eben schneller ist bei solchen Sachen, in Konkurrenz steht und sich das Start-up dann sagt, okay, dann meist halt für die und nicht für die Verwaltung? Also oder ist es doch so spezialisiert von der Dienstleistung, dass eigentlich die Verwaltung der einzig logische Abnehmer wäre? Gibt's nur eine juristische Antwort drauf, es kommt drauf an, aber in der Tat, genau das passiert auch tatsächlich. Also 'n 'n Start-up hat ja vielleicht das Verständnis, was für den öffentlichen Sektor machen zu wollen, aber hat letztlich ja ein Produkt und wenn das auch in der Wirtschaft einsetzbar ist, warum soll es dann nicht auch eine Wirtschaft verkaufen? Und so spricht überhaupt gar nichts gegen. Mhm. Also man muss schon 'n bisschen gucken, dass man da auch konkurrenzfähig bleibt sozusagen als Auftraggeber. Durchaus, also kommt drauf an, wie wie skalierbar die Lösung ist. Muss ja keine Konkurrenzsituation sein. Also wenn ich an eine Plattform denke oder so, die kann ja auch von Privaten genauso genutzt werden Klar, ja. Wie schon gesagt, typisch juristische Antwort, kommt drauf an. Aber in der Tat sollte man sich als als strategischer Einkäufer, als strategische Einkäuferin über solche Sachen halt eben auch Gedanken machen. Wenn ich jetzt es einfach nicht schaffe, aus diversen formalen Gründen Gavtext zu beauftragen, dann bricht mir natürlich auch irgendwann mal das Angebot weg. Und das ist klar, wenn die nie 'n Auftrag von mir kriegen, dann macht mir auch keiner mehr 1. Mhm. Also deswegen auf soner etwas strategischen Ebene sehe ich das genauso, wie Du's beschrieben hast. Und wie steht's mit der Auffindbarkeit? Also Stichwort zentrale Vergabeplattformen? Also die Frage ist ja, ob die Suchen und die Findenden überhaupt zusammenfinden, Oder läuft das eigentlich gut an der Stelle? Also unsere Workshop Teilnehmenden haben sich sehr dafür ausgesprochen, eine zentrale Vergabeplattform zu etablieren und die dann auch vernünftig zu nutzen. Die haben schon eher beschrieben, dass sie Schwierigkeiten haben nach wie vor, auch Ausschreibungen zu finden, auch Ausschreibungen zu finden, die überhaupt in irgend 'ner Form per volksversprechend sind. Also ich glaube, das ist auch 'n wichtiger Punkt, unterscheiden zu können, bei welcher Ausschreibung, selbst wenn die im ersten Moment interessant klingen mag, ist denn jetzt überhaupt das möglich, sich drauf zu bewerben beziehungsweise wo ist es überhaupt erfolgsversprechend, sich dann auch drauf zu bewerben? Also da gibt's schon noch Probleme, würde ich sagen. Ja. Und da hab ich mir das klassische Blackbox Problem, von dem wir eben gesprochen haben. Also ich weiß ja bei soner Ausschreibung oft extrem wenig, zum Beispiel wie die Konkurrenzlage ist. Bewerben sich da jetzt 100 Leute drauf oder 100 Unternehmen drauf oder sind's nur 3? Das erinnert natürlich meine Chancen ganz dramatisch. Wenn man sone klassische Ausschreibung hat, bei der man eine Erfolgsquote von 10 Prozent hat oder so was, dann dann ist es ja auch eine Frage des Aufwands. Also kann ich mir das überhaupt leisten, 10 Angebote abzugeben, in der Hoffnung, dass ich dann einmal 'n Zuschlag kriege. Ja, ja, weil's ja doch aufwendig ist. Und wär's dann der bessere Weg eigentlich, wenn in der Verwaltung irgend eine Stelle total gut wüsste, wo es vielleicht schon zusammenarbeiten gibt und welche Unternehmen interessant sind und die dann anspricht und sagt, hey, bewerbt euch doch mal auf diese Ausschreibung? Also solche Intermediäre sind, glaub ich, extrem wichtig und da gibt es ja auch, also gerade hier im Gav Tech Campus und solche Instrumente, wo man das dann ein bisschen bündeln kann und dann auch son bisschen beide Seiten sehen kann und das Matching son bisschen hinkriegen kann. Und wenn man's dann noch hinkriegt, etwas innovativer zu vergeben, dann kann das enorm hilfreich sein, kann das 'n sehr wichtiger Katalysator sein. Als 'n drittes Problem hab ich mir hier aufgeschrieben, das Stichwort kurzfristige Hypes statt langfristiger Strategie. Das widerspricht ja eigentlich 'n bisschen dem, was wir gerade gesagt haben, ne? Möglichst schneller, möglichst agiler. Was hat's denn damit auf sich? Das ist, glaube ich, vor allem auf so die Beobachtung zurückzuführen, dass es halt immer wieder so Trendtechnologien gibt, sag ich mal, die dann plötzlich ganz, ganz doll gewollt werden, egal ob das jetzt wirklich sinnvoll ist oder nicht, sag ich mal. Also dass das manchmal son bisschen der Trend dahin geht zu sagen, ah ja, das scheint jetzt grade das Beste zu sein, das machen wir jetzt und teilweise noch so ganz langfristig geschaut wird und das ist, glaube ich, dann auch 'n Problem, was auch insbesondere Gavtech Start ups betrifft, die zwar zum einen natürlich auch so auf diese Trends aufspringen können, auf der anderen Seite vielleicht auch ja schon Lösungen anbieten, die jetzt nicht gerade das Trendthema sind, die aber trotzdem total hilfreich sind, aber dadurch dann irgendwie der Fokus 'n bisschen verschoben wird auf dieses neue Trendthema. Und auch aus der Verwaltungsperspektive heraus geht's, glaub ich, da auch 'n bisschen die Nachvollziehbarkeit, warum machen wir denn jetzt das und nicht was anderes? Und da haben halt verschiedene Leute so beschrieben, ja, es ist halt wirklich son bisschen der der Nutzen noch nicht ganz klar, wenn vielleicht schon 'n Projekt angeschoben wird. Mhm. Also wär so was wie, also ich erklär uns jetzt hier auch 'n bisschen für mitschuldig, weil wir die Themen ja auch hier schon besprochen haben, aber so was wie Augmented Reality. Und dann ist es das nächste große Ding und man braucht ganz dringend in jedem Bereich so'ne Anwendung. Also sowas meinst Du, oder? Genau, also es gibt bis Sicherheit auch viele Bereiche, wo das durchaus sinnvoll ist. Das wollte ich jetzt hier auch gar nicht so darstellen, als sei das nicht sinnvoll, genau. Aber es macht halt keinen Sinn zu sagen, boah, das ist jetzt gerade total toll und das halt mich noch mal dann auch einzugrenzen, sag ich mal, für welche Bereiche das jetzt wirklich toll ist. Wir sind komplett unschuldig, weil wir das natürlich immer mitdenken. Entschuldigung. Nein, ich wollte dir noch mal ganz kurz, was Du eben auch in deiner in deiner Frage hattest, darauf eingehen, diese dieser scheinbare Widerspruch zwischen Langfristigkeit und kurzfristiges Agieren, den den finde ich auch ganz wichtig. Also natürlich will 'n Unternehmen möglichst schnell dann Geschäfte machen, ist auch vollkommen klar. Nur auf der anderen Seite liefert es natürlich eine Orientierung, wenn die Verwaltung zeigt, das sind unsere langfristigen Ziele und da kann man dann vielleicht auch in 3 Jahren das Produkt weiterentwickeln in die Richtung, wie es die Verwaltung braucht. Und dann da gibt es immer so ein auf Unternehmensseite dann wieder ein Spannungsfeld, so so risikobehaftet und Unsicherheit Unsicherheit ist das größte Gift für die Wirtschaft. Und je mehr man das rausnehmen kann, desto besser ist es. Und solche langfristigen Strategien Wenn man sagt, es braucht eigentlich eine langfristige Strategie und die ist dann im Idealfall Behördenübergreifend und bundesweit. Das muss doch dann eigentlich von der Politik kommen, oder? Das können doch gar nicht die einzelnen Häuser für sich machen. Jein, es spricht ja nichts dagegen, das auch auf unterschiedlichen Ebenen zu machen. Das Beispiel, das mir jetzt einfällt, ist auch was wie das OZG oder Sonderzugangsgesetz mit klaren Fristen, in 5 Jahren digitalisieren wir alle Verwaltungsprozesse. Das ist ja mal, wie soll man sagen, ein Pfund für die strategische Ausrichtung. Da kann man sich dann auf 5 Jahre dann in der Waffe einstellen, dass halt eine Vielzahl von Verwaltungsprozessen digitalisiert werden und ich kann mir überlegen, wo ist mein spezifischer Beitrag dazu? Und das lässt sich natürlich, also zg 2 0 haben wir jetzt auch wieder auch wieder mit Fristen, wo man sich auch wieder dran orientieren kann und gucken kann, welche Verfahren sind vielleicht noch nicht so ideal digitalisiert und wo könnte ich mich da andocken und das kann ich dann natürlich auch wieder runterbrechen für jede für jedes einzelne Haus oder für jedes einzelne Ressort. Also ja, es ist eine politische Grundsatzentscheidung, wo soll die Reise hingehen? Natürlich. Nur dann die konkrete Operationisierung, das, wo sich die Unternehmen dran dranhängen können, das ist dann schon Strategie der Häuser und einzelnen Einheiten. Ja, okay. Aber das heißt, man man schafft im Prinzip ja auch, man man bereitet so den Boden dafür, dass überhaupt vielleicht erst Gofftext oder Civictext entstehen können, weil die einfach diesen Horizont vor Augen haben, dass sie wissen, okay, in 5 Jahren das und das Ziel, da entwickle ich doch mal was, damit die da schneller hinkommen. Darum geht's ja, ne? Mhm. Also beim Entstehen bin ich mir nicht ganz so sicher, weil 5 Jahre fürn Start-up ist schon ziemlich lang. Ja. Die Durststrecke zu überleben. Aber wenn ich schon im Geschäft bin und mir dann anzugucken, wie kann ich mein Produkt, das ich habe oder wie kann ich das weiterentwickeln oder ein zusätzliches Produkt entwickeln, dafür ist es natürlich sehr hilfreich. Sophie, wir haben jetzt 3 Problemfelder exemplarisch ausgewählt. Würdest Du sagen, es gibt noch eine Sache, die auch einfach 'n Riesenthema war bei diesem Workshop, über das wir noch reden sollten? Also ich glaube, das war quasi gar kein Thema des eigentlichen Workshops, aber diese Vernetzung zu dritt untereinander, weil wir haben immer sehr, sehr viel über einzelne Komponenten gesprochen. Wie kann Gav Tech und Verwaltung besser zusammenarbeiten? Wie kann Civic Tech und Verwaltung besser zusammenarbeiten? Und aber diese übergeordnete Frage, ja, wie kann man sich denn jetzt auch gegenseitig helfen? Die war halt auch immer noch so mit dabei. Also natürlich hilft es dann möglicherweise auch, wenn Gavtech und die Verwaltung gemeinsam irgendwie 'n Problem lösen, das Civic Tech auch hatte. Aber die Vernetzung dieser 3 Akteure zusammen, das war noch son bisschen offen und da ging's halt auch darum, welche Netzwerke kann man denn da überhaupt nutzen? Brauch es neue Netzwerke, macht es überhaupt überhaupt Sinn? Das war sone Frage, die auch nicht abschließend gelöst wurde. Ich glaube, ein eine Key Message ist auf jeden Fall, wir machen jetzt keine neuen Netzwerke, sondern wenn, dann vernetzen wir unsere Netzwerke. Ja. Jetzt habt ihr aus dem Workshop schon eine Veröffentlichung rausgezogen mit dem Titel Aktionsplan für eine verstärkte Zusammenarbeit von Gove, Tech, SEVI Tech und Verwaltung. Ist das sone 1 zu 1 Anleitung? Also muss man jetzt eigentlich nur den Aktionsplan umsetzen oder wie ist das gedacht? Das weiß ich ja schön, aber nein, leider nicht. Dafür sind die Probleme doch 'n bisschen zu komplex. Also die Idee ist dahinter, dass man mal Anregungen sammelt, dass man möglicherweise von diesen Best Practices, die wir tatsächlich schon gesammelt haben, die auch mal 'ner Übersicht hat, dass man vielleicht die tatsächlich direkt irgendwie für sich mal anschauen kann. Aber grundsätzlich geht's eher ja darum, erst mal aufzuzeigen, was sind denn hier gemeinsame Probleme und da dann im Folgenden auch weiter Lösungen zu entwickeln. Und wir haben halt vor allem versucht, jetzt erst mal Ansätze da zu sammeln, also in welche Richtung man überhaupt schauen könnte, Lösungsansätze zu entwickeln. Und wie geht's jetzt weiter? Also das ist ja immer 'n bisschen die Gefahr, ne? Dann hat man mal über alles geredet und dann macht man so weiter wieder vor. Also wo bräuchtet ihr jetzt vielleicht auch politische Unterstützung, finanzielle Unterstützung, damit's dann auch wirklich weitergeht in dem Bereich? Also ich glaub, ein Ziel wär auf jeden Fall, dass man diese Akteure auch noch mal in anderen Konstellationen zusammenbringt, dass die Personen einzeln natürlich auch sich so diese Gedanken dazu machen und das in ihre Organisation mit reintragen, also dass sich da das vor allem dadurch etwas verstetigt. Und ja, man versucht son bisschen stärker diesen Austausch auch zu etablieren. Also indem man irgendwie Formate anbietet und sagt, Leute, nächsten Februar wieder da und da. Also genau Sowas könnte ich mir vorstellen. Genau, von solchen Formaten gibt's ja auch schon 'n paar. Ja. Und 'n paar bieten wir selbst ja auch an, also grade wenn's Richtung Zivilgesellschaft geht, haben wir ja eine große Konferenz jedes Jahr. Also da Das gilt es sicherlich noch weiter zu unterstützen und weiter zu treiben. Mhm. Mhm. Wir haben jetzt das Thema Geld son bisschen ausgespart. Scheitert's auch an nicht vorhandenen finanziellen Ressourcen manchmal in dieser Zusammenarbeit oder falsch verteilten Ressourcen? Also es ist im im Zweifel schon so, dass vermutlich Verwaltungen einen Hang dazu haben, eher groß auszuschreiben und schon alleine, den Verwaltungsaufwand dann wieder dieser Verträge möglichst gering zu halten und nicht allzu viele Dienstleister mit mit an Bord zu haben. So gesehen ist es in in der in der Hinsicht eine vielleicht problematische Verteilung der Finanzen, alles auf einmal auszugeben. Anstatt in vielen kleinen Häppchen, wo ich dann eher kleinere Unternehmen, mit bedienen kann. Dann haben wir natürlich noch den Risikoaspekt, haben wir ja auch schon son bisschen auf auf anderer Ebene angesprochen, auf der Mindset Ebene, aber bei der finanziellen Ebene ist es natürlich auch so. Ich hab da einen einen enormen Begründungsaufwand, wenn ich Geld versenke, weil zum Beispiel das das Unternehmen dann halt einfach den Betrieb einstellt und ich dadurch enorm viel Geld verloren habe und das kann ja auch alles einmal passieren. Da haben wir eine Problematik und die letzte Problematik, aber jetzt jetzt muss ich wieder eine eine Analyseebene hochgehen. Die letzte Problematik, die ich da son bisschen sehe, ist, dass natürlich Wirtschaftlichkeitsgebot der Verwaltung alles öffentliche Gelder, die entsprechend wirtschaftlich vergeben werden müssen auf der einen Seite und auf der anderen Seite sone Start up Logik, die ja auf viel ausprobieren, aber dann halt eben auch auf durchstartende Unicorns setzt. Und jetzt wird's wird's schwierig, wenn ich da son Unternehmen habe, das ganz schnell wächst, ganz viel an Wert gewinnt, sehr viel Einnahmen generieren kann. Auf der einen Seite, wenn ich solche solche Unicorns brauche, auf der anderen Seite aber eine Verwaltung habe, die wirtschaftlich vergeben muss, dann beißt sich das so ein bisschen, ne. Also da da ist durchaus Vielleicht ist deswegen der GarTech Markt auch 'n bisschen anders als der klassische, zumindest der klassische innovative Start up Markt. Ja, also es ist wirklich 'n eigener Bereich und halt vielleicht nicht so unicorn fixiert oder so. Ja, unicorn im Public Bereich wird schwierig. Jetzt hast Du grade schon gesagt, also es gibt, ihr habt schon solche Formate, es gibt konkrete Events. Wenn jetzt jemand zugehört hat und möchte sich melden, möchte unser Herzblatt sein, also ein Gav Tech oder Civic Tech Unternehmen, jemand, der da arbeitet. Könnt ihr noch mal so einen konkretes Event sagen oder ein Netzwerk, wo ihr sagt, okay, das ist echt 'n guter Zugang, 'n Erstzugang? Also die der Gav Tech Campus ist sicherlich eine hervorragende Adresse, da mal anzuklopfen. Und wir sind natürlich auch eine hervorragende Adresse, weiterzuvermitteln. Also bei uns kann man auch einklopfen. Ich würd auch sagen, wenn man sich zum Beispiel als Verwaltungsmitarbeiterder dafür interessiert, mal stärker so in in Gavtec Start-up oder so reinzuschauen, dann ist auch immer Start-up eine gute Adresse. Die bieten nämlich zum Beispiel auch so Hospitationsprogramme an. Das heißt, da könnte ich mal die könnte ich mal in die andere Richtung gehen und da reingucken und wirklich auch mal mitarbeiten in soner Start-up Struktur. Ja, genau. Okay. Ja, das sind doch sehr gute Anlaufstellen. Ich glaube, dann klappt das vielleicht öfter noch mit den Partnerschaften. Danke euch beiden, so vielen, Maik. Wir waren gerne dabei. Ja, danke. Ich danke meinen Gästen heute, Sophie Vogt, wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiterin im Kompetenzzentrum öffentlicher IT und Doktor Mike Weber, stellvertretender Leiter des öfit. Den Aktionsplan und mehr Hintergrund zum Thema findet ihr online unter öfit Punkt d e mit o e geschrieben und ihr findet die Links auch in den Shownotes. Das war, der Podcast des Kompetenzzentrums öffentlicher IT. Wir freuen uns, wenn ihr diesen Podcast weiterempfiehlt. Keine Folge zu verpassen, könnt ihr uns auch abonnieren kostenfrei auf Apple Podcasts, Spotify und vielen weiteren Portalen. Bis zum nächsten Mal, ich bin Franziska Walser. 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Civic Tech und GavTech befassen sich beide mit der Digitalisierung von öffentlichen Prozessen. Die Verwaltung will sich digitalisieren, klingt also nach einem Match, oder? In dieser Partnerschaft steckt großes Potenzial für Innovation, aber auch für Missverständnisse. Wir sprechen heute im öFIT Podcast restart digital darüber, wie man die Vernetzung von Govtech, und der öffentlichen Verwaltung fördern kann.\n\nWir, das bin ich, Franziska Weiser und meine beiden Co Hosts Sophie Vogt, wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiterin im Kompetenzzentrum öffentlicher IT mit den Themenschwerpunkten innovativer Staat, Demokratie und e-Government. Hallo Sophie.\n\nSpeaker 1: Hallo.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und alter Bekannter Doktor Mike Weber, Trendforscher und stellvertretender Leiter des öfid. Hallo Mike.\n\nSpeaker 2: Hallo Franziska.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ihr 2, wenn wir mal im Datingbild bleiben wollen, da gehört's ja dazu, dass man sich im Idealfall selbst beschreibt, auch ehrlich beschreibt. Wie würdet ihr denn Civic Tech und Govtech beschreiben? Einfach für Leute, die das noch nie gehört haben.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also Civike ist eigentlich das, was man so in dem Bereich Demokratie ansehen würde oder E-Democracy. Also die versuchen einfach stärker, die Bürger*innen mit der Verwaltung zusammenzubringen. Da geht's auch Open Government. Es macht ja Sinn, überhaupt zu wissen, was die Bevölkerung raucht und benötigt, damit dann entschieden werden kann, wie darauf reagiert wird durch die Verwaltung und dafür können dann zum Beispiel GovTech Lösung genutzt werden. Ja, da werden.\n\nJa, da geht's nicht so stark Effizienz, wie zum Beispiel es bei Gav tech geht. Ich denke, Gav tech zahlt halt auf diese Probleme, die irgendwie auf Effizienz sind getrimmt sind, ein, während Civic Tech halt eben diese überhaupt ja die Stimmung auch der Bürger*innen mit einfangen kann. Also das ist einfach so 2 unterschiedliche Aspekte, wo die Verwaltung auch beides noch Hilfe gebrauchen kann, sag ich mal. Und wenn es halt nicht miteinander irgendwie abgestimmt ist, dann ist es halt auch schwieriger, das insgesamt gut funktionieren zu lassen. Und ich glaube, was halt auch wichtig ist, ist zu sagen, ja, die können gut zusammenarbeiten, aber es macht natürlich jetzt keinen Sinn, dass jetzt 1 der Akteure an 'nem Problem arbeitet, das er gar nicht hat.\n\nAlso wenn, dann macht es nur Sinn, dass die zusammenarbeiten bei dem Problem, die alle 3 hat. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Okay, also speziell, wenn's dann eine Anwendung geht, die wirklich in der breiten Masse bei Bürger*innen funktionieren muss. Und da hätte einfach Civic Tech diese Expertise, Sachen wirklich in die in die Fläche zu bringen und nutzerfreundlich zu machen und solche Sachen, ne? Also da könnte sich die Zivilgesellschaft organisieren und man könnte, ich weiß nicht, ich stell mir jetzt irgendwas vor, aber sone Kiezumfrage machen mit wo hättet ihr denn gerne Grünflächen oder so was. Wär wär das Civic Tech?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, also so was so Plattformen, auf denen man sich austauschen kann, auf denen man auch abstimmen kann. Das ist zum Beispiel so was typisch Civic Tech mäßiges.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay und GavTech dann im Vergleich dazu?\n\nSpeaker 1: GavTech ist eher angesiedelt auf dieser Seite, Verwaltungsdigitalisierung effizienter gestalten. Also die bieten ja digitale Lösungen an für zum Beispiel Bürgerdienste, aber auch so für Verwaltungsaufgaben, das Inneren eher. Also da geht's wirklich diese Effizienzsteigerung mehr.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und die Unternehmen, die da angesiedelt sind, das sind typischerweise Start ups oder mit was für Unternehmen hat man's da zu tun?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, also ganz häufig sind es Start ups, die Lösungen anbieten, die auch einfach 'n bisschen ja spezialisierter auf Verwaltungen zugeschnitten sind als jetzt so allgemeine Technologien, die auch von so größeren Firmen angeboten werden. Also die spezialisieren sich häufig stärker auf so kleinere Nischenprobleme oder so, genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und weil ich jetzt grade gesagt hab in der Anmoderation, die finden nicht immer so zusammen. Eigentlich ist es ja wirklich naheliegend, weil die ja wie füreinander gemacht sind. Also es gibt wahrscheinlich schon Zusammenarbeit zwischen diesen 3 Bereichen Govtech, Civic Tech und Verwaltung, oder?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also es gibt schon Zusammenarbeit zwischen Govtech und der Verwaltung. Gibt mit Sicherheit auch Zusammenarbeit zwischen Civic Tech und der Verwaltung, aber es ist eben grade der Punkt, dass alle 3 Akteure eher selten zusammenarbeiten.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, also es geht nicht so Zweierkonstellation, sondern im Idealfall eine Dreierkonstellation.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, ja. Also beides letztendlich.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja und wenn man mal so guckt, was was steht hinter den Geschäftsmodellen, also welche Menschen und vielleicht auch Arbeitsweisen stehen hinter den Begriffen, ist das sehr unterschiedlich?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich glaube schon. Die Themenstellung, die Aufgabenstellung ist hier sicherlich sehr gleich die Zielsetzung, ein besseres Zusammenleben zu ermöglichen oder Effizienzgewinn zu realisieren. Aber die Arbeitsweise, die Du gerade angesprochen hast, ist natürlich höchst unterschiedlich zwischen den 3 Akteuren. Das Das da weiß man gar nicht, wo man anfangen soll. Also bei der Verwaltung in in klaren, festen Strukturen, beim Start-up, zumindest dem Klischee nach, sehr agil, sehr schnell, sehr innovativ.\n\nBei Civic Tech dann eher gemeinwohlorientiert, zusammenarbeitend, aber natürlich auch durch diese technische Expertise dann immer in 1 gewissen Nische sich bewegend. Also da da eröffnen sich riesengroße Welten, die man irgendwie zusammenbringen muss.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Viele spannende Themen, die Du grade genannt hast. Bei Civic Tech, da wär ja zum Beispiel auch denkbar, dass Ehrenamtliche aktiv sind, dass andere vielleicht sehr junge Programmierer und dann in der Verwaltung ja alle Altersstufen, ne, und ganz unterschiedliche Zugänge zu Digitalisierung. Also\n\nSpeaker 2: Also Ja. Mal son Bild zu haben, ist das natürlich genau richtig, was Du beschreibst. Genauso mit diesen Klischees kann man ganz gut arbeiten, die Probleme aufzuzeigen. Ja, sie können auf jeden Fall. Es gibt ja auch gute Beispiele in dem Bereich, wo das hervorragend funktioniert halt gerade über diese Zielsetzung, aber Also gemeinsame Ziel haben ist ja auch im Privatleben kein Fehler.\n\nAber das ändert ja nichts daran, dass man dann in dem Zusammenarbeiten dann mit diesen unterschiedlichen Kulturen umgehen muss, mit unterschiedlicher Sprache, mit unterschiedlichen Anforderungen, mit unterschiedlichen Zum Beispiel Karrierewegen, auch das spielt ja eine Rolle. Also Start-up will vielleicht schnell wachsen, viel verkaufen und in der Verwaltung sind dann doch eher andere Kriterien wichtig.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also dass vielleicht son Bewusstsein einfach hilft, ne, für dieses wie ticken wir, wie ticken die anderen, dann bestimmte Konflikte antizipieren zu können oder da mehr 'n Fokus draufzulegen, dass wir da wirklich richtig gut drüber reden. Also so was wär dann eigentlich das Ziel oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist sicherlich 'n ganz wichtiges Instrument und als einen kleinen Beitrag haben wir dann ja auch diesen Workshop durchgeführt, mal ein paar Akteure zusammenzubringen. Sich gegenseitig auszutauschen und Verständnis für den anderen zu entwickeln, ist da sicherlich ein wichtiger Punkt. Es ändert natürlich nichts da dran, dass die Verwaltung dann doch wieder verwaltungsförmig danach entscheiden muss, aber mit diesem Grundverständnis versteht man vielleicht besser, warum sich jetzt ein Start-up Warum er sich nicht bewirbt auf eine Ausschreibung oder so was?\n\nSpeaker 0: Wir kommen gleich zu dem Workshop, aber vielleicht davor, weil Du auch gesagt hast, es gibt schon Beispiele für Zusammenarbeit. Ich nehm auch an erfolgreiche Zusammenarbeit. Sophie Mike könnte dir vielleicht mal so ein oder 2 Beispiele nennen, wo's schon klappt, in welchen Bereichen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also das Problem ist son bisschen, es gibt noch keine gute Sammlung dieser Zusammenarbeit. Also wo man jetzt sagen könnte, ah, da sieht man jetzt immer direkt, wo es grade gut funktioniert. Das ist son bisschen Problem, weil wir kriegen natürlich schon so mit, dass es Berichte auch von Start ups gibt, die zum Beispiel toll mit der Verwaltung zusammenarbeitet. Das ist natürlich dann häufig erst mal eher aus der Start up Sicht auch präsentiert. Da bräuchte es einfach auch, glaub ich, noch 'n bisschen mehr Übersicht darüber, wie jetzt zum Beispiel Civic Tech und Verwaltung, wo so Best Practices vielleicht schon entwickelt wurden.\n\nDeshalb jetzt so ein konkretes Beispiel zu nennen, ist da mal gar nicht so einfach, aber nichtsdestotrotz gibt es die. Und man muss sich son bisschen in den Austausch mit den einzelnen Start ups, mit den einzelnen Civic Tech Organisationen begeben, dann davon zu lernen. Deshalb ist halt auch dieser Austausch so wichtig. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Es gibt ja auch schon ein paar Strukturen. Es gibt ja zum Beispiel Förderprogramme oder Finanzierungsprogramme für Gavtec Start ups, wo man dann in sehr schönen Tagungen immer die die ganzen Geschäftsideen sich angucken kann. Also es ist nach meiner Wahrnehmung ist es im Bereich Gavtec ist die Sichtbarkeit deutlich höher, bei Civiktag sind es dann natürlich auch oft lokale Initiativen. Da ist die die Sichtbarkeit 'n bisschen schwieriger.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Also es wird eben nicht systematisch erfasst im Sinne von, da gab's ein Wahnsinnsprojekt in der Gemeinde Krefeld, davon wissen wir vielleicht im Zweifelsfall nicht, ne, weil's nicht sone Datenbank gibt, wo das alles erfasst wird.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie ist es denn generell von der Struktur der Zusammenarbeit? Also es gibt ja, wenn wir im kommerziellen Bereich denken, da könnte ja 'n sehr großer Techkonzern vielleicht in eine kleine App investieren, weil vielleicht mit der Absicht, die dann mal zu übernehmen oder so was. Solche Zusammenarbeiten sind aber ja gar nicht denkbar, ne, zwischen Verwaltung und jetzt diesen Start ups im Bereich Govtech und CiviTech.\n\nSpeaker 2: Doch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, nee, weil Du grad gesagt hast, diese Förderprogramme, also das noch mal besser zu verstehen, also wie wie kann man sich auch an an einander beteiligen, wirklich auch auf 'ner finanziellen Ebene?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also das, woran ich gedacht habe, sind Oder es gibt ja auch mittlerweile Institutionen, die versuchen, dieses das 'n Match zu befördern. Denkt man nur an Gaff der Campus hier in Berlin oder mittlerweile auch in den Ländern, ja, immer weiterverbreitet. Wobei man dann gezielte Austauschformate einrichtet oder halt auch gezielte Unterstützungsformate. Früher Public Deutschland hat zum Beispiel so ein Unterstützungsformat gehabt. Ich weiß gar nicht, ob das weiter fortgeführt wird, jetzt, wo Sie sich geändert haben.\n\nDa bin ich gerade erwischte mich aufn falschen Fuß. Das ist dann die Seite, den den Gründungsprozess der Gavtex zu unterstützen und eine Sichtbarkeit zu erzeugen. Aber wie bei Start ups insgesamt auch, ist das Feld da natürlich sehr divers. Also das kann auch mal eine Ausgründung von großen Unternehmen sein. In der Regel wird es oder das Bild ist tatsächlich ein neu gegründetes Unternehmen, ein klassisches klassisches Start-up, aber es kann, wie schon gesagt, auch durchaus eine Ausgründung sein.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, aber genau, es wär jetzt nicht so, dass irgendwie 'n Unternehmen hat eine tolle Parkraumbewirtschaftungslösung und dann kauft die Verwaltung dieses Unternehmen oder so was, ne? Das ist ja, so was gäb's ja nicht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, das ist, glaube ich, ich weiß gar nicht, ob es dafür überhaupt ein Beispiel gibt. Vielleicht bei bei Digitalservice könnte man das so sehen, dass es da so passiert ist, aber das ist die absolute Ausnahme. Nein, normalerweise ist es dann so, dass dann diese Unternehmen beauftragt werden von auch von von vielen Verwaltungen. So es gibt zum Beispiel ein Start-up, das mit Facility Management, also mit der Verwaltung von öffentlichen Gebäuden, sehr viele Erfolge gefeiert hatte und auch von vielen Kommunen eingekauft wird, aber dann als Service, als Dienst.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dann kommen wir doch mal zu diesem Workshop. Der war im Februar 2024. Wie lief das dann ab? Also wer war da? Wie war die Resonanz?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also da waren vor allem ganz viele Leute eingeladen aus den unterschiedlichen Bereichen. Wir haben da versucht, wirklich aus Civic Tech, Gavtech und Verwaltung so Leute zusammenzubringen, auch ungefähr gleich verteilt, so verschiedene Stimmungen einzufangen. Aus dem GAPTEC Bereich waren das vor allem Leute, die halt auch in 'nem Start-up arbeiten oder ein Start-up gegründet haben. Aus dem Civic Tech Bereich waren das auch Mitarbeitende aus Civic Tech Initiativen Und dann hatten wir noch einige Leute so aus der Berliner Verwaltung beispielsweise auch. Also wir hatten auch 'n bisschen geschaut, dass wir lokale Start ups mit einladen.\n\nLetztendlich wurden es auch 'n paar, die noch weiter hergereist waren, aber genau, wir hatten so versucht, da eine gute Mischung zu erzielen. Und wir haben sehr, sehr viel darüber gesprochen, was so gemeinsame Probleme sind, was vielleicht eigene Probleme sind, einfach sich 'n bisschen anzunähern. Natürlich gibt's dann auch Sachen, die vielleicht den einen mehr interessieren als den anderen oder auch Probleme, die jetzt nicht alle betreffen. Aber am Ende hatten wir dann halt doch einige gesammelt, die alle als problematisch angesehen haben und über die wurde dann noch vertieft diskutiert.\n\nSpeaker 0: 1 der Problemfelder, was ihr da ermittelt habt, ist, glaub ich, grad auch schon son bisschen angeklungen, sind diese verschiedenen Arbeitskulturen, auch Methoden. Ich glaub, Mindset, Differenz habt ihr das genannt. Könnt ihr noch mal genauer beschreiben, worin genau diese Differenz besteht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also wenn man auf der Verwaltungseite guckt, ist ja ein ein geflügeltes Wort mittlerweile, dass Erfolg in der Verwaltung Fehlervermeidung bedeutet. Das ist son bisschen der der Grundmindset, den man häufig in öffentlichen Verwaltungen findet. Also man darf alles machen, nur nicht schlecht vom Rechnungshof geprüft werden, es auf die Spitze zu treiben. Mhm. Hatten wir schon häufiger hier im Podcast, oder?\n\nJa. Vom Rechnungshof. Doch, noch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie Aber also sone sone generelle Risikoscheue dann\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, genau. Mhm. Also noch mal, wir haben nichts gegen den Rechnungshof. Vielleicht noch mal dazu mal eine Folge. Aber so eine gewisse Risikoscheue trifft es eigentlich hervorragend, die dann natürlich ein bisschen im im Spannungsfeld, nicht Widerspruch zu sagen, im Spannungsfeld dazu steht, jetzt ein 'n junges, innovatives Unternehmen zu beauftragen mit 'ner frischen, neuen Idee, wo man bei Start ups ja nicht so genau weiß, ob sie nächstes Jahr auch noch existieren und die Lösung ist noch nicht bewährt, ist vielleicht noch nirgendwo anders im Einsatz oder nur in wenigen Fällen.\n\nUnd da da sieht man dann schon, dass der Match in dem Fall, also in dieser Risikobereitschaft, häufig sehr, sehr schwierig ist. Gibt dann natürlich auch 'n paar Auswege raus, aber erst mal erst mal diese Gegenüberstellung ist herausfordernd, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und würdest Du sagen, ist das eine Differenz, die vor allem in den Köpfen ist, also dass da auch Ängste sind, die vielleicht unbegründet sind oder sind's wirklich Strukturen, die geändert werden müssen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist eine ganz, ganz spannende Frage. Ich glaube, es sind auch die Strukturen, die da geändert werden müssen. Das hat, was ich eben schon mal leise angeteasert habe, so was mit wie Karrierewege. Was bewerte ich als Erfolg innerhalb von Verwaltungen? Und da ist ja Weil in diesem Bewertungssystem, die sind auch relativ auf auf Bewahrendes und auf konservativ ausgelegt und erstaunlich wenig oftmals auf Zielerreichung, also auf auf Effektivität des Verwaltungshandelns, auf Wirkungsorientierung und also etwas.\n\nUnd wenn ich mich daran orientiere, wenn ich in der Verwaltung Karriere machen will, dann sollte ich halt möglichst eben grade nicht innovativ und risikoreich irgendwo reingehen, sondern lieber das Altbewährte befördern. Also und dementsprechend, also es ist sehr stark eine Mindset Geschichte, also eine eine persönliche Geschichte, aber es wird durch die Strukturen auch unterstützt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also in der Beziehung ist es ja immer so, es liegt immer 'n bisschen an beiden. Also jetzt auf der Seite von den Start ups, gibt's da auch Dinge im Kopf oder in den Strukturen, die vielleicht änderbar wären und dies unnötig kompliziert machen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Wir haben ja immer den den Fokus auf den öffentlichen Sektor, deswegen gehen wir immer Ach so,\n\nSpeaker 0: ja, die können wir nicht anschaffen, meinst Du den anderen, deswegen schauen wir bei uns.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ja. Nein, trotzdem, trotzdem. Also natürlich gibt es, würde ich genauso wieder sehen, genauso wie in der wie in jeder Kommunikation, müssen natürlich beide Seiten aufeinander zugehen. Und wenn es dann irgendwelche Verwaltungsanforderungen gibt, die die einfach unumstößlich sind, weil sie im Gesetz stehen, dann muss natürlich 'n Gav Tech oder 'n Civic Tech das auch verstehen und berücksichtigen. Oder wenn man die technische Seite sich anguckt, natürlich, wenn man ein ein System anbietet, muss sich das natürlich auch in die Verwaltungs IT Landschaft einfügen.\n\nUnd das sind häufig Aspekte, die bei bei Start ups eher weniger Berücksichtigung finden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Also son Verständnis für Zwänge, die's halt gibt, ne, und Anforderungen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Mhm. Und auch Zeiträume ist ja auch noch 'n ganz wichtiger Punkt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Sophie, wie weit seid ihr denn da reingegangen? Also seid ihr nur zu der Problembeschreibung beschreibung gegangen oder habt ihr dann auch wirklich gesagt, guck mal, diese Maßnahme könnte für uns funktionieren und diese auch?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also 'n großen Teil hat schon diese Problemaufnahme, sag ich mal, eingenommen, einfach dadurch, dass ja alle das erste Mal son bisschen miteinander in Kontakt gekommen sind. Wir haben aber dann auch versucht, uns darüber auszutauschen, was eigentlich so gute Sachen sind, die schon aufgefallen sind. Also ich weiß zum Beispiel zu diesem Thema Fehlerkultur etablieren und so weiter, dass es dann Beispiele gibt, wo es halt auch wirklich so Runden gibt, wo sich einfach mal nur darüber ausgetauscht wird, was eigentlich gerade alles doof läuft, sage ich mal so salopp. Weil das kann ja aber auch son bisschen noch mal die Motivation wieder fördern, gerade in so längerwierigen Wandelungsprozessen, die halt ja die digitale Transformation einfach ist. Es ging halt auch stärker darum, erst die Ideen zu sammeln und das mehr so als Impulse zu betrachten, die dann halt auch noch weiter diskutiert werden können.\n\nDementsprechend hab ich jetzt nicht die perfekte Lösung, 1 dieser Probleme direkt ranzugehen. Aber es gibt auch immer wieder positive Beispiele.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also zum Beispiel in dem Papier, was ihr dann nach dem Workshop veröffentlicht habt, steht so so was wie Fuck up Night drin, ne? Ne? Ja, genau. Man son Format dann auch für die Verwaltung. Also gibt's das schon oder könnte es das nur\n\nSpeaker 2: geben?\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, das gibt's schon. Das nennt sich Gescheiter weiter. Ja. Und das ist, also da hatten die verschiedene Verwaltungsmitarbeitende sehr positiv zum Beispiel von berichtet, dass das schon auch recht etabliert, sag ich mal, nicht. Zum Beispiel von berichtet, dass das schon auch recht etabliert sei.\n\nIch mein, ich war jetzt selber nicht da, ich kann jetzt keine persönliche Einschätzung da liefern, aber von unserem Workshop teilnehmen wurde das sehr gelobt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich find auch den Namen schon brillant. Ja. Weil genau darum geht es ja, durch das Scheitern zu lernen und dann besser weiterzumachen. Ja. Ist ja auch aus Organisationsperspektive ganz wichtig, dass man aus diesen nicht so gut gelaufenen Projekten lernt und auch ändern kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und das, was Mike grade genannt hat, also dieser dieser Karriereaspekt, also dieses ich komme eher durch Bewahrung voran als durch Innovation. Also gibt's da auch schon Formate, wo man sagt, das ist einfach die Beförderung hängt eher daran, bring ich Innovation voran in meinem Bereich?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also das, was es ja gibt, ist in auf verschiedenen Ebenen eine stärkere Wirkungsorientierung in die Verwaltungsarbeit zu bringen. Und darüber dann mit Instrumenten, mit weicheren Instrumenten wie Zielvereinbarungen und so etwas dann eher in solchen Dimensionen auch punkten zu können. Aber da ist natürlich, da hängt mir ja auch wieder 'n ganzer Rattenschwanz dran. Das ist natürlich auch der Mindset der der Führungskräfte und die vorgegebenen Strukturen. Also das ist ein langsamer Wandlungsprozess, denk ich.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Das zweite Problem, was ihr beschreibt, würd ich jetzt mal unter der Überschrift Unwissen behandeln. Da geht's darum, dass die Verwaltung oft als hermetisch und undurchschaubar wahrgenommen wird von außen. Also kann ich mich auch total reinversetzen, zum Beispiel, wenn man son Ausschreibung sieht, ne, und sich denkt so, oh Gott, ich lass es einfach gleich, weil's so kompliziert ist. Hab ich das grad richtig beschrieben?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, vollkommen richtig. Ich hab da immer sein kafkareskes Bild vor Augen, ja, vor dem Gericht. Das ist ja auch sehr verständlich. Also, Verwaltung sind hochkomplexe Organisationen, die vielfältige Aufgaben haben, die nicht besonders oft nicht besonders stark darin sind, nach außen zu kommunizieren, vorsichtig formuliert. Und dann auch ja auch noch was von einem wollen klassischerweise Und dementsprechend, dass man dann son Zum Beispiel ein ein ganz kleines Instrument ist ja, sobald man mit der Verwaltung irgendwas zu tun hat, kriegt man häufig, wenn man's beantragt oder sich auf sone Ausschreibung bewirbt, kriegt man häufig sehr wenig Feedback innerhalb des Prozesses.\n\nSondern reicht man halt seine seine Unterlagen da ein, den Auftrag zu bekommen und kriegt dann x Monate später mitgeteilt, tut mir leid, 'n anderer ist es geworden oder auch, man kriegt den Zuschlag, kann ja auch mal passieren. Aber dazwischen die Kommunikation dazwischen ist sehr häufig in sehr vielen Prozessen, in sehr vielen Formaten halt sehr schwach ausgeprägt und das verstärkt natürlich diesen Eindruck, dass man da vor einem Monolithen steht, den man nicht verstehen kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also diese sprichwörtlichen Mühlen, ne und dass es eigentlich besser wär, wenn die eine Mühle zu Ende gemahlen hätte, dann sagt's, okay, von meiner Seite sieht's gut aus, ich geborene's mal weiter in den Bereich, weiß ich nicht was, Brandschutz oder irgendwas. Also dass man so Zwischenschritte mitgeteilt bekommt, Ja. Ist immer gut.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, das wär großartig. Also im im gesamten Bereich, also von von klassischen Anträgen bis hin auch so in Kooperationsbeziehungen, in Geschäftsanbahnungen ist das natürlich auch für die Unternehmen eine ganz wichtige Information. Bin ich noch im Rennen? Hab ich noch eine Chance oder ich mich anders umgucken?\n\nSpeaker 0: Na ja, auf jeden Fall, weil da hängt ja, also für grade für Start ups, die ja finanziell immer 'n bisschen wackelig aufgestellt sind, die können so was ja noch viel schlechter aussitzen als jetzt vielleicht 'n großes Unternehmen, ne?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, genau, genau. Also da sind wir beim Thema Geschwindigkeit. Start ups sind ja oder das Wichtigste ist ja der erste Auftrag, den man möglichst schnell reinholen muss. Und wenn man dann Ausschreibungsprozesse auf der anderen Seite hat, die sich über Monate hinziehen, dann kann alleine das schon ein Riesenproblem werden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Sophie, kannst Du noch mal 'n bisschen erzählen, wie wurde das dann in dem Workshop? Also Du hast ja wahrscheinlich noch so die die Formulierungen auch im Ohr, ne? Also wie wie haben die das da beschrieben?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also ich glaub, das Wort, was am häufigsten gefallen ist, ist einfach kompliziert, also grad bei diesem Ausschreibung und bei der Ausschreibungsthematik bei Vergabe, dass es halt einfach unheimlich komplex ist und man ist ja auch an die Sprache schon allein nicht gewöhnt, wenn man jetzt damit nicht so viel zu tun hat. Es war schon ja schon der der erste Schritt, wo man sich erst mal denkt, hm, hab ich das jetzt überhaupt hier richtig verstanden, was ich hier gerade gelesen habe? Dementsprechend haben sich da glaube ich auch einige etwas überwältigt von gefühlt. Auf der anderen Seite gibt es ja auch schon Start-up, die jetzt schon 'n bisschen mehr Erfahrung gesammelt haben. Also man sieht auch, das ist jetzt kein unüberwindbares Hindernis oder so, aber man muss sich halt eben damit auseinandersetzen und man braucht auch gewisse Hilfestellungen und das ist halt, glaub ich, 'n wichtiger Punkt, dass man einfach sagt, okay, ich lass mich davon jetzt nicht auch total abschrecken, weil wir werden das jetzt wahrscheinlich nicht superschnell gelöst kriegen, dass das plötzlich alles ganz toll und offen ist und wir es alles verstehen können, sondern dass wir jetzt auch erst mal Maßnahmen etablieren, die jetzt schnell hilfreich sind.\n\nAlso dass wir zum Beispiel Ansprechpartner für Start ups irgendwie etablieren oder dass man so Onlineangebote auch nutzt, die das schon 'n bisschen besser zusammenfassen wie Co Inno oder so. Also da gibt es ja schon Sachen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Also dass man so was wie son Ausschreibungslotsen vielleicht hätte, ne, den man dann ansprechen kann und sagen kann, hm, ich weiß nicht, ob ich das richtig verstanden oder so.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Aber ohne Ausschreibung geht's ja nicht, ne. Das ist ja schon 'n Format, da ist die Verwaltung einfach Verwaltung und es muss auch so sein, oder?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also es gibt ja schon auch Vergabeverfahren, die einfach Also das ist immer eine Frage des Preises letztendlich auch.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja und also einerseits des Preises, je geringer der Wert, desto leichter ist es im Zweifel. Aber es gibt ja auch innovative Vergabeverfahren, die ja eigentlich dafür gedacht sind, genau solche solche Prozesse zu unterstützen, aber die dann andersrum wieder eine andere Komplexität entfalten und dadurch dann noch langwieriger und noch schwieriger werden.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also das ist das ist ein son son Problem, wo man auch relativ, also wo man sehr viel verändern kann, aber wo wo dann wirklich diese unterschiedlichen Zielsetzungen auch voll aufeinanderprallen, weil das Vergaberecht sehr lange geprägt war von Korruptionsprävention Ja. Im Kern und dementsprechend alles sehr stark darauf ausgerichtet war, dass die Prozesse im im Grunde transparent und sehr marktorientiert, wie das dann heißt, passieren. Das ist natürlich in der Wirtschaft ganz anders, ne. Also wenn wenn da jemand mit Geld eine tolle Idee finden hört und dann kann er mal sagen, das machen wir jetzt mal eben. Das geht in der Verwaltung in der Tat nicht.\n\nAber es gibt gute Instrumente, wie man dieses zwischenzeitlich extrem starre Vergabewesen ein bisschen auflockern kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und gibt's da auch sone Konkurrenzsituation, frag ich mich jetzt grade, also dass man mit 'nem Wirtschaftsunternehmen, was eben schneller ist bei solchen Sachen, in Konkurrenz steht und sich das Start-up dann sagt, okay, dann meist halt für die und nicht für die Verwaltung? Also oder ist es doch so spezialisiert von der Dienstleistung, dass eigentlich die Verwaltung der einzig logische Abnehmer wäre?\n\nSpeaker 2: Gibt's nur eine juristische Antwort drauf, es kommt drauf an, aber in der Tat, genau das passiert auch tatsächlich. Also 'n 'n Start-up hat ja vielleicht das Verständnis, was für den öffentlichen Sektor machen zu wollen, aber hat letztlich ja ein Produkt und wenn das auch in der Wirtschaft einsetzbar ist, warum soll es dann nicht auch eine Wirtschaft verkaufen? Und so spricht überhaupt gar nichts gegen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Also man muss schon 'n bisschen gucken, dass man da auch konkurrenzfähig bleibt sozusagen als Auftraggeber.\n\nSpeaker 2: Durchaus, also kommt drauf an, wie wie skalierbar die Lösung ist. Muss ja keine Konkurrenzsituation sein. Also wenn ich an eine Plattform denke oder so, die kann ja auch von Privaten genauso genutzt werden Klar, ja. Wie schon gesagt, typisch juristische Antwort, kommt drauf an. Aber in der Tat sollte man sich als als strategischer Einkäufer, als strategische Einkäuferin über solche Sachen halt eben auch Gedanken machen.\n\nWenn ich jetzt es einfach nicht schaffe, aus diversen formalen Gründen Gavtext zu beauftragen, dann bricht mir natürlich auch irgendwann mal das Angebot weg. Und das ist klar, wenn die nie 'n Auftrag von mir kriegen, dann macht mir auch keiner mehr 1. Mhm. Also deswegen auf soner etwas strategischen Ebene sehe ich das genauso, wie Du's beschrieben hast.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und wie steht's mit der Auffindbarkeit? Also Stichwort zentrale Vergabeplattformen? Also die Frage ist ja, ob die Suchen und die Findenden überhaupt zusammenfinden, Oder läuft das eigentlich gut an der Stelle?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also unsere Workshop Teilnehmenden haben sich sehr dafür ausgesprochen, eine zentrale Vergabeplattform zu etablieren und die dann auch vernünftig zu nutzen. Die haben schon eher beschrieben, dass sie Schwierigkeiten haben nach wie vor, auch Ausschreibungen zu finden, auch Ausschreibungen zu finden, die überhaupt in irgend 'ner Form per volksversprechend sind. Also ich glaube, das ist auch 'n wichtiger Punkt, unterscheiden zu können, bei welcher Ausschreibung, selbst wenn die im ersten Moment interessant klingen mag, ist denn jetzt überhaupt das möglich, sich drauf zu bewerben beziehungsweise wo ist es überhaupt erfolgsversprechend, sich dann auch drauf zu bewerben? Also da gibt's schon noch Probleme, würde ich sagen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Und da hab ich mir das klassische Blackbox Problem, von dem wir eben gesprochen haben. Also ich weiß ja bei soner Ausschreibung oft extrem wenig, zum Beispiel wie die Konkurrenzlage ist. Bewerben sich da jetzt 100 Leute drauf oder 100 Unternehmen drauf oder sind's nur 3? Das erinnert natürlich meine Chancen ganz dramatisch.\n\nWenn man sone klassische Ausschreibung hat, bei der man eine Erfolgsquote von 10 Prozent hat oder so was, dann dann ist es ja auch eine Frage des Aufwands. Also kann ich mir das überhaupt leisten, 10 Angebote abzugeben, in der Hoffnung, dass ich dann einmal 'n Zuschlag kriege.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ja, weil's ja doch aufwendig ist. Und wär's dann der bessere Weg eigentlich, wenn in der Verwaltung irgend eine Stelle total gut wüsste, wo es vielleicht schon zusammenarbeiten gibt und welche Unternehmen interessant sind und die dann anspricht und sagt, hey, bewerbt euch doch mal auf diese Ausschreibung?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also solche Intermediäre sind, glaub ich, extrem wichtig und da gibt es ja auch, also gerade hier im Gav Tech Campus und solche Instrumente, wo man das dann ein bisschen bündeln kann und dann auch son bisschen beide Seiten sehen kann und das Matching son bisschen hinkriegen kann. Und wenn man's dann noch hinkriegt, etwas innovativer zu vergeben, dann kann das enorm hilfreich sein, kann das 'n sehr wichtiger Katalysator sein.\n\nSpeaker 0: Als 'n drittes Problem hab ich mir hier aufgeschrieben, das Stichwort kurzfristige Hypes statt langfristiger Strategie. Das widerspricht ja eigentlich 'n bisschen dem, was wir gerade gesagt haben, ne? Möglichst schneller, möglichst agiler. Was hat's denn damit auf sich?\n\nSpeaker 1: Das ist, glaube ich, vor allem auf so die Beobachtung zurückzuführen, dass es halt immer wieder so Trendtechnologien gibt, sag ich mal, die dann plötzlich ganz, ganz doll gewollt werden, egal ob das jetzt wirklich sinnvoll ist oder nicht, sag ich mal. Also dass das manchmal son bisschen der Trend dahin geht zu sagen, ah ja, das scheint jetzt grade das Beste zu sein, das machen wir jetzt und teilweise noch so ganz langfristig geschaut wird und das ist, glaube ich, dann auch 'n Problem, was auch insbesondere Gavtech Start ups betrifft, die zwar zum einen natürlich auch so auf diese Trends aufspringen können, auf der anderen Seite vielleicht auch ja schon Lösungen anbieten, die jetzt nicht gerade das Trendthema sind, die aber trotzdem total hilfreich sind, aber dadurch dann irgendwie der Fokus 'n bisschen verschoben wird auf dieses neue Trendthema. Und auch aus der Verwaltungsperspektive heraus geht's, glaub ich, da auch 'n bisschen die Nachvollziehbarkeit, warum machen wir denn jetzt das und nicht was anderes? Und da haben halt verschiedene Leute so beschrieben, ja, es ist halt wirklich son bisschen der der Nutzen noch nicht ganz klar, wenn vielleicht schon 'n Projekt angeschoben wird.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Also wär so was wie, also ich erklär uns jetzt hier auch 'n bisschen für mitschuldig, weil wir die Themen ja auch hier schon besprochen haben, aber so was wie Augmented Reality. Und dann ist es das nächste große Ding und man braucht ganz dringend in jedem Bereich so'ne Anwendung. Also sowas meinst Du, oder?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, also es gibt bis Sicherheit auch viele Bereiche, wo das durchaus sinnvoll ist. Das wollte ich jetzt hier auch gar nicht so darstellen, als sei das nicht sinnvoll, genau. Aber es macht halt keinen Sinn zu sagen, boah, das ist jetzt gerade total toll und das halt mich noch mal dann auch einzugrenzen, sag ich mal, für welche Bereiche das jetzt wirklich toll ist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wir sind komplett unschuldig, weil wir das natürlich immer mitdenken. Entschuldigung. Nein, ich wollte dir noch mal ganz kurz, was Du eben auch in deiner in deiner Frage hattest, darauf eingehen, diese dieser scheinbare Widerspruch zwischen Langfristigkeit und kurzfristiges Agieren, den den finde ich auch ganz wichtig. Also natürlich will 'n Unternehmen möglichst schnell dann Geschäfte machen, ist auch vollkommen klar. Nur auf der anderen Seite liefert es natürlich eine Orientierung, wenn die Verwaltung zeigt, das sind unsere langfristigen Ziele und da kann man dann vielleicht auch in 3 Jahren das Produkt weiterentwickeln in die Richtung, wie es die Verwaltung braucht.\n\nUnd dann da gibt es immer so ein auf Unternehmensseite dann wieder ein Spannungsfeld, so so risikobehaftet und Unsicherheit Unsicherheit ist das größte Gift für die Wirtschaft. Und je mehr man das rausnehmen kann, desto besser ist es. Und solche langfristigen Strategien\n\nSpeaker 0: Wenn man sagt, es braucht eigentlich eine langfristige Strategie und die ist dann im Idealfall Behördenübergreifend und bundesweit. Das muss doch dann eigentlich von der Politik kommen, oder? Das können doch gar nicht die einzelnen Häuser für sich machen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Jein, es spricht ja nichts dagegen, das auch auf unterschiedlichen Ebenen zu machen. Das Beispiel, das mir jetzt einfällt, ist auch was wie das OZG oder Sonderzugangsgesetz mit klaren Fristen, in 5 Jahren digitalisieren wir alle Verwaltungsprozesse. Das ist ja mal, wie soll man sagen, ein Pfund für die strategische Ausrichtung. Da kann man sich dann auf 5 Jahre dann in der Waffe einstellen, dass halt eine Vielzahl von Verwaltungsprozessen digitalisiert werden und ich kann mir überlegen, wo ist mein spezifischer Beitrag dazu? Und das lässt sich natürlich, also zg 2 0 haben wir jetzt auch wieder auch wieder mit Fristen, wo man sich auch wieder dran orientieren kann und gucken kann, welche Verfahren sind vielleicht noch nicht so ideal digitalisiert und wo könnte ich mich da andocken und das kann ich dann natürlich auch wieder runterbrechen für jede für jedes einzelne Haus oder für jedes einzelne Ressort.\n\nAlso ja, es ist eine politische Grundsatzentscheidung, wo soll die Reise hingehen? Natürlich. Nur dann die konkrete Operationisierung, das, wo sich die Unternehmen dran dranhängen können, das ist dann schon Strategie der Häuser und einzelnen Einheiten.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, okay. Aber das heißt, man man schafft im Prinzip ja auch, man man bereitet so den Boden dafür, dass überhaupt vielleicht erst Gofftext oder Civictext entstehen können, weil die einfach diesen Horizont vor Augen haben,\n\nSpeaker 2: dass\n\nSpeaker 0: sie wissen, okay, in 5 Jahren das und das Ziel, da entwickle ich doch mal was, damit die da schneller hinkommen. Darum geht's ja, ne?\n\nSpeaker 2: Mhm. Also beim Entstehen bin ich mir nicht ganz so sicher, weil 5 Jahre fürn Start-up ist schon ziemlich lang. Ja. Die Durststrecke zu überleben. Aber wenn ich schon im Geschäft bin und mir dann anzugucken, wie kann ich mein Produkt, das ich habe oder wie kann ich das weiterentwickeln oder ein zusätzliches Produkt entwickeln, dafür ist es natürlich sehr hilfreich.\n\nSpeaker 0: Sophie, wir haben jetzt 3 Problemfelder exemplarisch ausgewählt. Würdest Du sagen, es gibt noch eine Sache, die auch einfach 'n Riesenthema war bei diesem Workshop, über das wir noch reden sollten?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also ich glaube, das war quasi gar kein Thema des eigentlichen Workshops, aber diese Vernetzung zu dritt untereinander, weil wir haben immer sehr, sehr viel über einzelne Komponenten gesprochen. Wie kann Gav Tech und Verwaltung besser zusammenarbeiten? Wie kann Civic Tech und Verwaltung besser zusammenarbeiten? Und aber diese übergeordnete Frage, ja, wie kann man sich denn jetzt auch gegenseitig helfen? Die war halt auch immer noch so mit dabei.\n\nAlso natürlich hilft es dann möglicherweise auch, wenn Gavtech und die Verwaltung gemeinsam irgendwie 'n Problem lösen, das Civic Tech auch hatte. Aber die Vernetzung dieser 3 Akteure zusammen, das war noch son bisschen offen und da ging's halt auch darum, welche Netzwerke kann man denn da überhaupt nutzen? Brauch es neue Netzwerke, macht es überhaupt überhaupt Sinn? Das war sone Frage, die auch nicht abschließend gelöst wurde. Ich glaube, ein eine Key Message ist auf jeden Fall, wir machen jetzt keine neuen Netzwerke, sondern wenn, dann vernetzen wir unsere Netzwerke.\n\nJa.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt habt ihr aus dem Workshop schon eine Veröffentlichung rausgezogen mit dem Titel Aktionsplan für eine verstärkte Zusammenarbeit von Gove, Tech, SEVI Tech und Verwaltung. Ist das sone 1 zu 1 Anleitung? Also muss man jetzt eigentlich nur den Aktionsplan umsetzen oder wie ist das gedacht?\n\nSpeaker 1: Das weiß ich ja schön, aber nein, leider nicht. Dafür sind die Probleme doch 'n bisschen zu komplex. Also die Idee ist dahinter, dass man mal Anregungen sammelt, dass man möglicherweise von diesen Best Practices, die wir tatsächlich schon gesammelt haben, die auch mal 'ner Übersicht hat, dass man vielleicht die tatsächlich direkt irgendwie für sich mal anschauen kann. Aber grundsätzlich geht's eher ja darum, erst mal aufzuzeigen, was sind denn hier gemeinsame Probleme und da dann im Folgenden auch weiter Lösungen zu entwickeln. Und wir haben halt vor allem versucht, jetzt erst mal Ansätze da zu sammeln, also in welche Richtung man überhaupt schauen könnte, Lösungsansätze zu entwickeln.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und wie geht's jetzt weiter? Also das ist ja immer 'n bisschen die Gefahr, ne? Dann hat man mal über alles geredet und dann macht man so weiter wieder vor. Also wo bräuchtet ihr jetzt vielleicht auch politische Unterstützung, finanzielle Unterstützung, damit's dann auch wirklich weitergeht in dem Bereich?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also ich glaub, ein Ziel wär auf jeden Fall, dass man diese Akteure auch noch mal in anderen Konstellationen zusammenbringt, dass die Personen einzeln natürlich auch sich so diese Gedanken dazu machen und das in ihre Organisation mit reintragen, also dass sich da das vor allem dadurch etwas verstetigt. Und ja, man versucht son bisschen stärker diesen Austausch auch zu etablieren.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also indem man irgendwie Formate anbietet und sagt, Leute, nächsten Februar wieder da und da. Also genau\n\nSpeaker 1: Sowas könnte ich mir vorstellen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, von solchen Formaten gibt's ja auch schon 'n paar. Ja. Und 'n paar bieten wir selbst ja auch an, also grade wenn's Richtung Zivilgesellschaft geht, haben wir ja eine große Konferenz jedes Jahr. Also da Das gilt es sicherlich noch weiter zu unterstützen und weiter zu treiben. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Wir haben jetzt das Thema Geld son bisschen ausgespart. Scheitert's auch an nicht vorhandenen finanziellen Ressourcen manchmal in dieser Zusammenarbeit oder falsch verteilten Ressourcen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also es ist im im Zweifel schon so, dass vermutlich Verwaltungen einen Hang dazu haben, eher groß auszuschreiben und schon alleine, den Verwaltungsaufwand dann wieder dieser Verträge möglichst gering zu halten und nicht allzu viele Dienstleister mit mit an Bord zu haben. So gesehen ist es in in der in der Hinsicht eine vielleicht problematische Verteilung der Finanzen, alles auf einmal auszugeben. Anstatt in vielen kleinen Häppchen, wo ich dann eher kleinere Unternehmen, mit bedienen kann. Dann haben wir natürlich noch den Risikoaspekt, haben wir ja auch schon son bisschen auf auf anderer Ebene angesprochen, auf der Mindset Ebene, aber bei der finanziellen Ebene ist es natürlich auch so. Ich hab da einen einen enormen Begründungsaufwand, wenn ich Geld versenke, weil zum Beispiel das das Unternehmen dann halt einfach den Betrieb einstellt und ich dadurch enorm viel Geld verloren habe und das kann ja auch alles einmal passieren.\n\nDa haben wir eine Problematik und die letzte Problematik, aber jetzt jetzt muss ich wieder eine eine Analyseebene hochgehen. Die letzte Problematik, die ich da son bisschen sehe, ist, dass natürlich Wirtschaftlichkeitsgebot der Verwaltung alles öffentliche Gelder, die entsprechend wirtschaftlich vergeben werden müssen auf der einen Seite und auf der anderen Seite sone Start up Logik, die ja auf viel ausprobieren, aber dann halt eben auch auf durchstartende Unicorns setzt. Und jetzt wird's wird's schwierig, wenn ich da son Unternehmen habe, das ganz schnell wächst, ganz viel an Wert gewinnt, sehr viel Einnahmen generieren kann. Auf der einen Seite, wenn ich solche solche Unicorns brauche, auf der anderen Seite aber eine Verwaltung habe, die wirtschaftlich vergeben muss, dann beißt sich das so ein bisschen, ne. Also da da ist durchaus Vielleicht ist deswegen der GarTech Markt auch 'n bisschen anders als der klassische, zumindest der klassische innovative Start up Markt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also es ist wirklich 'n eigener Bereich und halt vielleicht nicht so unicorn fixiert oder so.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, unicorn im Public Bereich wird schwierig.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt hast Du grade schon gesagt, also es gibt, ihr habt schon solche Formate, es gibt konkrete Events. Wenn jetzt jemand zugehört hat und möchte sich melden, möchte unser Herzblatt sein, also ein Gav Tech oder Civic Tech Unternehmen, jemand, der da arbeitet. Könnt ihr noch mal so einen konkretes Event sagen oder ein Netzwerk, wo ihr sagt, okay, das ist echt 'n guter Zugang, 'n Erstzugang?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also die der Gav Tech Campus ist sicherlich eine hervorragende Adresse, da mal anzuklopfen. Und wir sind natürlich auch eine hervorragende Adresse, weiterzuvermitteln. Also bei uns kann man auch einklopfen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich würd auch sagen, wenn man sich zum Beispiel als Verwaltungsmitarbeiterder dafür interessiert, mal stärker so in in Gavtec Start-up oder so reinzuschauen, dann ist auch immer Start-up eine gute Adresse. Die bieten nämlich zum Beispiel auch so Hospitationsprogramme an.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das heißt, da könnte ich mal die könnte ich mal in die andere Richtung gehen und da reingucken und wirklich auch mal mitarbeiten in soner Start-up Struktur.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Ja, das sind doch sehr gute Anlaufstellen. Ich glaube, dann klappt das vielleicht öfter noch mit den Partnerschaften. Danke euch beiden, so vielen, Maik.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wir waren gerne dabei.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, danke.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich danke meinen Gästen heute, Sophie Vogt, wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiterin im Kompetenzzentrum öffentlicher IT und Doktor Mike Weber, stellvertretender Leiter des öfit. Den Aktionsplan und mehr Hintergrund zum Thema findet ihr online unter öfit Punkt d e mit o e geschrieben und ihr findet die Links auch in den Shownotes. Das war, der Podcast des Kompetenzzentrums öffentlicher IT. Wir freuen uns, wenn ihr diesen Podcast weiterempfiehlt. Keine Folge zu verpassen, könnt ihr uns auch abonnieren kostenfrei auf Apple Podcasts, Spotify und vielen weiteren Portalen.\n\nBis zum nächsten Mal, ich bin Franziska Walser. Tschüs.", "paragraphs": [ { "sentences": [ { "text": "Es geht das Zusammenspiel zwischen den Bereichen Civic Tech und GavTech und der Verwaltung.", "start": 2.24, "end": 7.94 }, { "text": "Civic Tech und GavTech befassen sich beide mit der Digitalisierung von öffentlichen Prozessen.", "start": 8.559999, "end": 13.059999 }, { "text": "Die Verwaltung will sich digitalisieren, klingt also nach einem Match, oder?", "start": 13.12, "end": 17.165 }, { "text": "In dieser Partnerschaft steckt großes Potenzial für Innovation, aber auch für Missverständnisse.", "start": 18.025, "end": 22.765 }, { "text": "Wir sprechen heute im öFIT Podcast restart digital darüber, wie man die Vernetzung von Govtech, und der öffentlichen Verwaltung fördern kann.", "start": 37.690002, "end": 46.085 } ], "start": 2.24, "end": 46.085, "num_words": 71.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir, das bin ich, Franziska Weiser und meine beiden Co Hosts Sophie Vogt, wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiterin im Kompetenzzentrum öffentlicher IT mit den Themenschwerpunkten innovativer Staat, Demokratie und e-Government.", "start": 46.785, "end": 59.379997 }, { "text": "Hallo Sophie.", "start": 59.76, "end": 60.42 } ], "start": 46.785, "end": 60.42, "num_words": 29.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Hallo.", "start": 60.8, "end": 61.3 } ], "start": 60.8, "end": 61.3, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und alter Bekannter Doktor Mike Weber, Trendforscher und stellvertretender Leiter des öfid.", "start": 62.16, "end": 66.979996 }, { "text": "Hallo Mike.", "start": 67.119995, "end": 67.86 } ], "start": 62.16, "end": 67.86, "num_words": 14.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Hallo Franziska.", "start": 68.0, "end": 68.9 } ], "start": 68.0, "end": 68.9, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ihr 2, wenn wir mal im Datingbild bleiben wollen, da gehört's ja dazu, dass man sich im Idealfall selbst beschreibt, auch ehrlich beschreibt.", "start": 70.525, "end": 78.545 }, { "text": "Wie würdet ihr denn Civic Tech und Govtech beschreiben?", "start": 79.885, "end": 83.585 }, { "text": "Einfach für Leute, die das noch nie gehört haben.", "start": 84.91, "end": 87.01 } ], "start": 70.525, "end": 87.01, "num_words": 41.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, also Civike ist eigentlich das, was man so in dem Bereich Demokratie ansehen würde oder E-Democracy.", "start": 87.39, "end": 94.93 }, { "text": "Also die versuchen einfach stärker, die Bürger*innen mit der Verwaltung zusammenzubringen.", "start": 95.63, "end": 99.825 }, { "text": "Da geht's auch Open Government.", "start": 100.045, "end": 101.505 }, { "text": "Es macht ja Sinn, überhaupt zu wissen, was die Bevölkerung raucht und benötigt, damit dann entschieden werden kann, wie darauf reagiert wird durch die Verwaltung und dafür können dann zum Beispiel GovTech Lösung genutzt werden.", "start": 102.045, "end": 111.885 }, { "text": "Ja, da werden.", "start": 111.885, "end": 115.22889 } ], "start": 87.39, "end": 115.22889, "num_words": 71.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, da geht's nicht so stark Effizienz, wie zum Beispiel es bei Gav tech geht.", "start": 115.22889, "end": 117.159996 }, { "text": "Ich denke, Gav tech zahlt halt auf diese Probleme, die irgendwie auf Effizienz sind getrimmt sind, ein, während Civic Tech halt eben diese überhaupt ja die Stimmung auch der Bürger*innen mit einfangen kann.", "start": 118.259995, "end": 133.085 }, { "text": "Also das ist einfach so 2 unterschiedliche Aspekte, wo die Verwaltung auch beides noch Hilfe gebrauchen kann, sag ich mal.", "start": 133.085, "end": 140.54501 }, { "text": "Und wenn es halt nicht miteinander irgendwie abgestimmt ist, dann ist es halt auch schwieriger, das insgesamt gut funktionieren zu lassen.", "start": 140.76501, "end": 148.03 }, { "text": "Und ich glaube, was halt auch wichtig ist, ist zu sagen, ja, die können gut zusammenarbeiten, aber es macht natürlich jetzt keinen Sinn, dass jetzt 1 der Akteure an 'nem Problem arbeitet, das er gar nicht hat.", "start": 148.03, "end": 157.875 } ], "start": 115.22889, "end": 157.875, "num_words": 126.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also wenn, dann macht es nur Sinn, dass die zusammenarbeiten bei dem Problem, die alle 3 hat.", "start": 157.875, "end": 162.45499 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 162.75499, "end": 163.25499 } ], "start": 157.875, "end": 163.25499, "num_words": 18.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 164.03499, "end": 164.435 }, { "text": "Okay, also speziell, wenn's dann eine Anwendung geht, die wirklich in der breiten Masse bei Bürger*innen funktionieren muss.", "start": 164.435, "end": 172.73999 }, { "text": "Und da hätte einfach Civic Tech diese Expertise, Sachen wirklich in die in die Fläche zu bringen und nutzerfreundlich zu machen und solche Sachen, ne?", "start": 172.73999, "end": 180.92 }, { "text": "Also da könnte sich die Zivilgesellschaft organisieren und man könnte, ich weiß nicht, ich stell mir jetzt irgendwas vor, aber sone Kiezumfrage machen mit wo hättet ihr denn gerne Grünflächen oder so was.", "start": 182.995, "end": 193.235 }, { "text": "Wär wär das Civic Tech?", "start": 193.235, "end": 194.775 } ], "start": 164.03499, "end": 194.775, "num_words": 82.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, also so was so Plattformen, auf denen man sich austauschen kann, auf denen man auch abstimmen kann.", "start": 195.32, "end": 200.52 }, { "text": "Das ist zum Beispiel so was typisch Civic Tech mäßiges.", "start": 200.52, "end": 202.86 } ], "start": 195.32, "end": 202.86, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay und GavTech dann im Vergleich dazu?", "start": 203.32, "end": 205.74 } ], "start": 203.32, "end": 205.74, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "GavTech ist eher angesiedelt auf dieser Seite, Verwaltungsdigitalisierung effizienter gestalten.", "start": 206.84, "end": 212.405 }, { "text": "Also die bieten ja digitale Lösungen an für zum Beispiel Bürgerdienste, aber auch so für Verwaltungsaufgaben, das Inneren eher.", "start": 212.405, "end": 221.465 }, { "text": "Also da geht's wirklich diese Effizienzsteigerung mehr.", "start": 221.525, "end": 225.09001 } ], "start": 206.84, "end": 225.09001, "num_words": 36.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und die Unternehmen, die da angesiedelt sind, das sind typischerweise Start ups oder mit was für Unternehmen hat man's da zu tun?", "start": 225.95, "end": 233.73001 } ], "start": 225.95, "end": 233.73001, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, also ganz häufig sind es Start ups, die Lösungen anbieten, die auch einfach 'n bisschen ja spezialisierter auf Verwaltungen zugeschnitten sind als jetzt so allgemeine Technologien, die auch von so größeren Firmen angeboten werden.", "start": 234.03, "end": 249.765 }, { "text": "Also die spezialisieren sich häufig stärker auf so kleinere Nischenprobleme oder so, genau.", "start": 249.765, "end": 255.49 } ], "start": 234.03, "end": 255.49, "num_words": 48.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und weil ich jetzt grade gesagt hab in der Anmoderation, die finden nicht immer so zusammen.", "start": 256.67, "end": 262.05 }, { "text": "Eigentlich ist es ja wirklich naheliegend, weil die ja wie füreinander gemacht sind.", "start": 263.47, "end": 268.795 }, { "text": "Also es gibt wahrscheinlich schon Zusammenarbeit zwischen diesen 3 Bereichen Govtech, Civic Tech und Verwaltung, oder?", "start": 268.795, "end": 274.975 } ], "start": 256.67, "end": 274.975, "num_words": 45.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, also es gibt schon Zusammenarbeit zwischen Govtech und der Verwaltung.", "start": 276.40997, "end": 280.59 }, { "text": "Gibt mit Sicherheit auch Zusammenarbeit zwischen Civic Tech und der Verwaltung, aber es ist eben grade der Punkt, dass alle 3 Akteure eher selten zusammenarbeiten.", "start": 281.12997, "end": 288.03 } ], "start": 276.40997, "end": 288.03, "num_words": 36.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay, also es geht nicht so Zweierkonstellation, sondern im Idealfall eine Dreierkonstellation.", "start": 289.045, "end": 293.465 } ], "start": 289.045, "end": 293.465, "num_words": 12.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, ja.", "start": 294.725, "end": 295.625 }, { "text": "Also beides letztendlich.", "start": 296.165, "end": 297.945 } ], "start": 294.725, "end": 297.945, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja und wenn man mal so guckt, was was steht hinter den Geschäftsmodellen, also welche Menschen und vielleicht auch Arbeitsweisen stehen hinter den Begriffen, ist das sehr unterschiedlich?", "start": 299.045, "end": 311.93 } ], "start": 299.045, "end": 311.93, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ich glaube schon.", "start": 313.765, "end": 314.725 }, { "text": "Die Themenstellung, die Aufgabenstellung ist hier sicherlich sehr gleich die Zielsetzung, ein besseres Zusammenleben zu ermöglichen oder Effizienzgewinn zu realisieren.", "start": 314.725, "end": 322.825 }, { "text": "Aber die Arbeitsweise, die Du gerade angesprochen hast, ist natürlich höchst unterschiedlich zwischen den 3 Akteuren.", "start": 323.365, "end": 328.345 }, { "text": "Das Das da weiß man gar nicht, wo man anfangen soll.", "start": 328.885, "end": 330.71002 }, { "text": "Also bei der Verwaltung in in klaren, festen Strukturen, beim Start-up, zumindest dem Klischee nach, sehr agil, sehr schnell, sehr innovativ.", "start": 330.71002, "end": 338.57 } ], "start": 313.765, "end": 338.57, "num_words": 71.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Bei Civic Tech dann eher gemeinwohlorientiert, zusammenarbeitend, aber natürlich auch durch diese technische Expertise dann immer in 1 gewissen Nische sich bewegend.", "start": 339.99002, "end": 350.215 }, { "text": "Also da da eröffnen sich riesengroße Welten, die man irgendwie zusammenbringen muss.", "start": 350.515, "end": 354.695 } ], "start": 339.99002, "end": 354.695, "num_words": 34.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 354.835, "end": 355.335 }, { "text": "Viele spannende Themen, die Du grade genannt hast.", "start": 355.475, "end": 357.475 }, { "text": "Bei Civic Tech, da wär ja zum Beispiel auch denkbar, dass Ehrenamtliche aktiv sind, dass andere vielleicht sehr junge Programmierer und dann in der Verwaltung ja alle Altersstufen, ne, und ganz unterschiedliche Zugänge zu Digitalisierung.", "start": 357.475, "end": 371.66 }, { "text": "Also", "start": 372.04, "end": 372.2 } ], "start": 354.835, "end": 372.2, "num_words": 45.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also Ja.", "start": 373.67502, "end": 374.195 }, { "text": "Mal son Bild zu haben, ist das natürlich genau richtig, was Du beschreibst.", "start": 374.635, "end": 377.93503 }, { "text": "Genauso mit diesen Klischees kann man ganz gut arbeiten, die Probleme aufzuzeigen.", "start": 378.15503, "end": 381.61502 }, { "text": "Ja, sie können auf jeden Fall.", "start": 383.11502, "end": 384.55502 }, { "text": "Es gibt ja auch gute Beispiele in dem Bereich, wo das hervorragend funktioniert halt gerade über diese Zielsetzung, aber Also gemeinsame Ziel haben ist ja auch im Privatleben kein Fehler.", "start": 384.55502, "end": 393.89 } ], "start": 373.67502, "end": 393.89, "num_words": 63.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Aber das ändert ja nichts daran, dass man dann in dem Zusammenarbeiten dann mit diesen unterschiedlichen Kulturen umgehen muss, mit unterschiedlicher Sprache, mit unterschiedlichen Anforderungen, mit unterschiedlichen Zum Beispiel Karrierewegen, auch das spielt ja eine Rolle.", "start": 395.15, "end": 408.525 }, { "text": "Also Start-up will vielleicht schnell wachsen, viel verkaufen und in der Verwaltung sind dann doch eher andere Kriterien wichtig.", "start": 408.525, "end": 415.425 } ], "start": 395.15, "end": 415.425, "num_words": 55.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also dass vielleicht son Bewusstsein einfach hilft, ne, für dieses wie ticken wir, wie ticken die anderen, dann bestimmte Konflikte antizipieren zu können oder da mehr 'n Fokus draufzulegen, dass wir da wirklich richtig gut drüber reden.", "start": 416.34, "end": 430.74 }, { "text": "Also so was wär dann eigentlich das Ziel oder?", "start": 430.74, "end": 433.595 } ], "start": 416.34, "end": 433.595, "num_words": 46.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das ist sicherlich 'n ganz wichtiges Instrument und als einen kleinen Beitrag haben wir dann ja auch diesen Workshop durchgeführt, mal ein paar Akteure zusammenzubringen.", "start": 434.05502, "end": 442.555 }, { "text": "Sich gegenseitig auszutauschen und Verständnis für den anderen zu entwickeln, ist da sicherlich ein wichtiger Punkt.", "start": 443.17502, "end": 448.09 }, { "text": "Es ändert natürlich nichts da dran, dass die Verwaltung dann doch wieder verwaltungsförmig danach entscheiden muss, aber mit diesem Grundverständnis versteht man vielleicht besser, warum sich jetzt ein Start-up Warum er sich nicht bewirbt auf eine Ausschreibung oder so was?", "start": 448.09, "end": 461.55 } ], "start": 434.05502, "end": 461.55, "num_words": 81.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir kommen gleich zu dem Workshop, aber vielleicht davor, weil Du auch gesagt hast, es gibt schon Beispiele für Zusammenarbeit.", "start": 462.135, "end": 469.115 }, { "text": "Ich nehm auch an erfolgreiche Zusammenarbeit.", "start": 469.495, "end": 471.755 }, { "text": "Sophie Mike könnte dir vielleicht mal so ein oder 2 Beispiele nennen, wo's schon klappt, in welchen Bereichen?", "start": 472.855, "end": 478.84003 } ], "start": 462.135, "end": 478.84003, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, also das Problem ist son bisschen, es gibt noch keine gute Sammlung dieser Zusammenarbeit.", "start": 482.74002, "end": 489.195 }, { "text": "Also wo man jetzt sagen könnte, ah, da sieht man jetzt immer direkt, wo es grade gut funktioniert.", "start": 489.655, "end": 493.73502 }, { "text": "Das ist son bisschen Problem, weil wir kriegen natürlich schon so mit, dass es Berichte auch von Start ups gibt, die zum Beispiel toll mit der Verwaltung zusammenarbeitet.", "start": 493.73502, "end": 501.915 }, { "text": "Das ist natürlich dann häufig erst mal eher aus der Start up Sicht auch präsentiert.", "start": 501.975, "end": 506.5 }, { "text": "Da bräuchte es einfach auch, glaub ich, noch 'n bisschen mehr Übersicht darüber, wie jetzt zum Beispiel Civic Tech und Verwaltung, wo so Best Practices vielleicht schon entwickelt wurden.", "start": 507.04, "end": 515.3 } ], "start": 482.74002, "end": 515.3, "num_words": 105.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Deshalb jetzt so ein konkretes Beispiel zu nennen, ist da mal gar nicht so einfach, aber nichtsdestotrotz gibt es die.", "start": 515.52, "end": 521.985 }, { "text": "Und man muss sich son bisschen in den Austausch mit den einzelnen Start ups, mit den einzelnen Civic Tech Organisationen begeben, dann davon zu lernen.", "start": 522.685, "end": 529.40497 }, { "text": "Deshalb ist halt auch dieser Austausch so wichtig.", "start": 529.40497, "end": 531.40497 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 531.40497, "end": 531.90497 } ], "start": 515.52, "end": 531.90497, "num_words": 54.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Es gibt ja auch schon ein paar Strukturen.", "start": 532.10004, "end": 534.9 }, { "text": "Es gibt ja zum Beispiel Förderprogramme oder Finanzierungsprogramme für Gavtec Start ups, wo man dann in sehr schönen Tagungen immer die die ganzen Geschäftsideen sich angucken kann.", "start": 534.9, "end": 546.26 }, { "text": "Also es ist nach meiner Wahrnehmung ist es im Bereich Gavtec ist die Sichtbarkeit deutlich höher, bei Civiktag sind es dann natürlich auch oft lokale Initiativen.", "start": 546.26, "end": 554.575 }, { "text": "Da ist die die Sichtbarkeit 'n bisschen schwieriger.", "start": 555.675, "end": 557.935 } ], "start": 532.10004, "end": 557.935, "num_words": 69.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 558.395, "end": 558.895 }, { "text": "Also es wird eben nicht systematisch erfasst im Sinne von, da gab's ein Wahnsinnsprojekt in der Gemeinde Krefeld, davon wissen wir vielleicht im Zweifelsfall nicht, ne, weil's nicht sone Datenbank gibt, wo das alles erfasst wird.", "start": 558.955, "end": 570.9 } ], "start": 558.395, "end": 570.9, "num_words": 37.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 570.9, "end": 571.4 } ], "start": 570.9, "end": 571.4, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wie ist es denn generell von der Struktur der Zusammenarbeit?", "start": 571.54004, "end": 574.36005 }, { "text": "Also es gibt ja, wenn wir im kommerziellen Bereich denken, da könnte ja 'n sehr großer Techkonzern vielleicht in eine kleine App investieren, weil vielleicht mit der Absicht, die dann mal zu übernehmen oder so was.", "start": 574.58, "end": 587.445 }, { "text": "Solche Zusammenarbeiten sind aber ja gar nicht denkbar, ne, zwischen Verwaltung und jetzt diesen Start ups im Bereich Govtech und CiviTech.", "start": 587.745, "end": 595.02 } ], "start": 571.54004, "end": 595.02, "num_words": 67.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Doch.", "start": 595.4, "end": 595.9 } ], "start": 595.4, "end": 595.9, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, nee, weil Du grad gesagt hast, diese Förderprogramme, also das noch mal besser zu verstehen, also wie wie kann man sich auch an an einander beteiligen, wirklich auch auf 'ner finanziellen Ebene?", "start": 596.28, "end": 605.26 } ], "start": 596.28, "end": 605.26, "num_words": 33.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, also das, woran ich gedacht habe, sind Oder es gibt ja auch mittlerweile Institutionen, die versuchen, dieses das 'n Match zu befördern.", "start": 605.89496, "end": 613.83496 }, { "text": "Denkt man nur an Gaff der Campus hier in Berlin oder mittlerweile auch in den Ländern, ja, immer weiterverbreitet.", "start": 613.89496, "end": 618.39496 }, { "text": "Wobei man dann gezielte Austauschformate einrichtet oder halt auch gezielte Unterstützungsformate.", "start": 619.87, "end": 624.45 }, { "text": "Früher Public Deutschland hat zum Beispiel so ein Unterstützungsformat gehabt.", "start": 625.07, "end": 629.25 }, { "text": "Ich weiß gar nicht, ob das weiter fortgeführt wird, jetzt, wo Sie sich geändert haben.", "start": 629.31, "end": 632.43 } ], "start": 605.89496, "end": 632.43, "num_words": 78.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Da bin ich gerade erwischte mich aufn falschen Fuß.", "start": 632.43, "end": 635.625 }, { "text": "Das ist dann die Seite, den den Gründungsprozess der Gavtex zu unterstützen und eine Sichtbarkeit zu erzeugen.", "start": 637.04504, "end": 644.905 }, { "text": "Aber wie bei Start ups insgesamt auch, ist das Feld da natürlich sehr divers.", "start": 645.445, "end": 649.59 }, { "text": "Also das kann auch mal eine Ausgründung von großen Unternehmen sein.", "start": 649.67004, "end": 652.63 }, { "text": "In der Regel wird es oder das Bild ist tatsächlich ein neu gegründetes Unternehmen, ein klassisches klassisches Start-up, aber es kann, wie schon gesagt, auch durchaus eine Ausgründung sein.", "start": 652.63, "end": 662.655 } ], "start": 632.43, "end": 662.655, "num_words": 80.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, aber genau, es wär jetzt nicht so, dass irgendwie 'n Unternehmen hat eine tolle Parkraumbewirtschaftungslösung und dann kauft die Verwaltung dieses Unternehmen oder so was, ne?", "start": 662.895, "end": 672.255 }, { "text": "Das ist ja, so was gäb's ja nicht.", "start": 672.255, "end": 674.35504 } ], "start": 662.895, "end": 674.35504, "num_words": 35.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, das ist, glaube ich, ich weiß gar nicht, ob es dafür überhaupt ein Beispiel gibt.", "start": 675.31, "end": 679.47 }, { "text": "Vielleicht bei bei Digitalservice könnte man das so sehen, dass es da so passiert ist, aber das ist die absolute Ausnahme.", "start": 679.47, "end": 685.23 }, { "text": "Nein, normalerweise ist es dann so, dass dann diese Unternehmen beauftragt werden von auch von von vielen Verwaltungen.", "start": 685.23, "end": 692.105 }, { "text": "So es gibt zum Beispiel ein Start-up, das mit Facility Management, also mit der Verwaltung von öffentlichen Gebäuden, sehr viele Erfolge gefeiert hatte und auch von vielen Kommunen eingekauft wird, aber dann als Service, als Dienst.", "start": 692.32495, "end": 704.345 } ], "start": 675.31, "end": 704.345, "num_words": 91.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Dann kommen wir doch mal zu diesem Workshop.", "start": 704.76996, "end": 706.76996 }, { "text": "Der war im Februar 2024.", "start": 706.76996, "end": 708.39 }, { "text": "Wie lief das dann ab?", "start": 710.85, "end": 712.13 }, { "text": "Also wer war da?", "start": 712.13, "end": 713.26996 }, { "text": "Wie war die Resonanz?", "start": 713.97, "end": 716.39 } ], "start": 704.76996, "end": 716.39, "num_words": 26.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also da waren vor allem ganz viele Leute eingeladen aus den unterschiedlichen Bereichen.", "start": 716.52997, "end": 720.85504 }, { "text": "Wir haben da versucht, wirklich aus Civic Tech, Gavtech und Verwaltung so Leute zusammenzubringen, auch ungefähr gleich verteilt, so verschiedene Stimmungen einzufangen.", "start": 720.85504, "end": 730.47504 }, { "text": "Aus dem GAPTEC Bereich waren das vor allem Leute, die halt auch in 'nem Start-up arbeiten oder ein Start-up gegründet haben.", "start": 730.97003, "end": 738.17004 }, { "text": "Aus dem Civic Tech Bereich waren das auch Mitarbeitende aus Civic Tech Initiativen Und dann hatten wir noch einige Leute so aus der Berliner Verwaltung beispielsweise auch.", "start": 738.17004, "end": 748.495 }, { "text": "Also wir hatten auch 'n bisschen geschaut, dass wir lokale Start ups mit einladen.", "start": 748.495, "end": 753.55505 } ], "start": 716.52997, "end": 753.55505, "num_words": 97.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Letztendlich wurden es auch 'n paar, die noch weiter hergereist waren, aber genau, wir hatten so versucht, da eine gute Mischung zu erzielen.", "start": 754.815, "end": 761.17 }, { "text": "Und wir haben sehr, sehr viel darüber gesprochen, was so gemeinsame Probleme sind, was vielleicht eigene Probleme sind, einfach sich 'n bisschen anzunähern.", "start": 762.43, "end": 770.13 }, { "text": "Natürlich gibt's dann auch Sachen, die vielleicht den einen mehr interessieren als den anderen oder auch Probleme, die jetzt nicht alle betreffen.", "start": 770.27, "end": 778.78503 }, { "text": "Aber am Ende hatten wir dann halt doch einige gesammelt, die alle als problematisch angesehen haben und über die wurde dann noch vertieft diskutiert.", "start": 779.005, "end": 787.10504 } ], "start": 754.815, "end": 787.10504, "num_words": 92.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "1 der Problemfelder, was ihr da ermittelt habt, ist, glaub ich, grad auch schon son bisschen angeklungen, sind diese verschiedenen Arbeitskulturen, auch Methoden.", "start": 789.02, "end": 798.39996 }, { "text": "Ich glaub, Mindset, Differenz habt ihr das genannt.", "start": 798.54, "end": 801.27997 }, { "text": "Könnt ihr noch mal genauer beschreiben, worin genau diese Differenz besteht?", "start": 801.71497, "end": 806.77496 } ], "start": 789.02, "end": 806.77496, "num_words": 42.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also wenn man auf der Verwaltungseite guckt, ist ja ein ein geflügeltes Wort mittlerweile, dass Erfolg in der Verwaltung Fehlervermeidung bedeutet.", "start": 808.115, "end": 815.975 }, { "text": "Das ist son bisschen der der Grundmindset, den man häufig in öffentlichen Verwaltungen findet.", "start": 816.27, "end": 821.49005 }, { "text": "Also man darf alles machen, nur nicht schlecht vom Rechnungshof geprüft werden, es auf die Spitze zu treiben.", "start": 822.11005, "end": 826.99005 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 826.99005, "end": 827.39 }, { "text": "Hatten wir schon häufiger hier im Podcast, oder?", "start": 827.39, "end": 829.31006 } ], "start": 808.115, "end": 829.31006, "num_words": 62.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 829.31006, "end": 829.55005 }, { "text": "Vom Rechnungshof.", "start": 829.55005, "end": 829.78 }, { "text": "Doch, noch.", "start": 829.78, "end": 830.27 } ], "start": 829.31006, "end": 830.27, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wie Aber also sone sone generelle Risikoscheue dann", "start": 830.27, "end": 834.675 } ], "start": 830.27, "end": 834.675, "num_words": 8.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, genau.", "start": 834.91504, "end": 835.715 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 835.715, "end": 836.03503 }, { "text": "Also noch mal, wir haben nichts gegen den Rechnungshof.", "start": 836.03503, "end": 838.135 }, { "text": "Vielleicht noch mal dazu mal eine Folge.", "start": 838.195, "end": 839.895 }, { "text": "Aber so eine gewisse Risikoscheue trifft es eigentlich hervorragend, die dann natürlich ein bisschen im im Spannungsfeld, nicht Widerspruch zu sagen, im Spannungsfeld dazu steht, jetzt ein 'n junges, innovatives Unternehmen zu beauftragen mit 'ner frischen, neuen Idee, wo man bei Start ups ja nicht so genau weiß, ob sie nächstes Jahr auch noch existieren und die Lösung ist noch nicht bewährt, ist vielleicht noch nirgendwo anders im Einsatz oder nur in wenigen Fällen.", "start": 841.395, "end": 871.045 } ], "start": 834.91504, "end": 871.045, "num_words": 93.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und da da sieht man dann schon, dass der Match in dem Fall, also in dieser Risikobereitschaft, häufig sehr, sehr schwierig ist.", "start": 871.425, "end": 880.05 }, { "text": "Gibt dann natürlich auch 'n paar Auswege raus, aber erst mal erst mal diese Gegenüberstellung ist herausfordernd, ja.", "start": 880.58997, "end": 887.17 } ], "start": 871.425, "end": 887.17, "num_words": 40.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und würdest Du sagen, ist das eine Differenz, die vor allem in den Köpfen ist, also dass da auch Ängste sind, die vielleicht unbegründet sind oder sind's wirklich Strukturen, die geändert werden müssen?", "start": 887.70996, "end": 897.53503 } ], "start": 887.70996, "end": 897.53503, "num_words": 33.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das ist eine ganz, ganz spannende Frage.", "start": 898.715, "end": 900.715 }, { "text": "Ich glaube, es sind auch die Strukturen, die da geändert werden müssen.", "start": 900.715, "end": 904.17505 }, { "text": "Das hat, was ich eben schon mal leise angeteasert habe, so was mit wie Karrierewege.", "start": 904.54, "end": 909.76 }, { "text": "Was bewerte ich als Erfolg innerhalb von Verwaltungen?", "start": 910.54, "end": 913.52 }, { "text": "Und da ist ja Weil in diesem Bewertungssystem, die sind auch relativ auf auf Bewahrendes und auf konservativ ausgelegt und erstaunlich wenig oftmals auf Zielerreichung, also auf auf Effektivität des Verwaltungshandelns, auf Wirkungsorientierung und also etwas.", "start": 914.86, "end": 931.105 } ], "start": 898.715, "end": 931.105, "num_words": 78.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und wenn ich mich daran orientiere, wenn ich in der Verwaltung Karriere machen will, dann sollte ich halt möglichst eben grade nicht innovativ und risikoreich irgendwo reingehen, sondern lieber das Altbewährte befördern.", "start": 931.81, "end": 944.07 }, { "text": "Also und dementsprechend, also es ist sehr stark eine Mindset Geschichte, also eine eine persönliche Geschichte, aber es wird durch die Strukturen auch unterstützt.", "start": 944.925, "end": 953.185 } ], "start": 931.81, "end": 953.185, "num_words": 56.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also in der Beziehung ist es ja immer so, es liegt immer 'n bisschen an beiden.", "start": 954.685, "end": 957.985 }, { "text": "Also jetzt auf der Seite von den Start ups, gibt's da auch Dinge im Kopf oder in den Strukturen, die vielleicht änderbar wären und dies unnötig kompliziert machen?", "start": 958.045, "end": 970.81 } ], "start": 954.685, "end": 970.81, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir haben ja immer den den Fokus auf den öffentlichen Sektor, deswegen gehen wir immer Ach so,", "start": 973.075, "end": 976.675 } ], "start": 973.075, "end": 976.675, "num_words": 17.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "ja, die können wir nicht anschaffen, meinst Du den anderen, deswegen schauen wir bei uns.", "start": 976.675, "end": 979.795 } ], "start": 976.675, "end": 979.795, "num_words": 15.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, ja.", "start": 979.795, "end": 980.53503 }, { "text": "Nein, trotzdem, trotzdem.", "start": 980.835, "end": 982.275 }, { "text": "Also natürlich gibt es, würde ich genauso wieder sehen, genauso wie in der wie in jeder Kommunikation, müssen natürlich beide Seiten aufeinander zugehen.", "start": 982.275, "end": 990.06 }, { "text": "Und wenn es dann irgendwelche Verwaltungsanforderungen gibt, die die einfach unumstößlich sind, weil sie im Gesetz stehen, dann muss natürlich 'n Gav Tech oder 'n Civic Tech das auch verstehen und berücksichtigen.", "start": 990.06, "end": 1003.955 }, { "text": "Oder wenn man die technische Seite sich anguckt, natürlich, wenn man ein ein System anbietet, muss sich das natürlich auch in die Verwaltungs IT Landschaft einfügen.", "start": 1004.73505, "end": 1012.195 } ], "start": 979.795, "end": 1012.195, "num_words": 86.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und das sind häufig Aspekte, die bei bei Start ups eher weniger Berücksichtigung finden.", "start": 1012.815, "end": 1018.61 } ], "start": 1012.815, "end": 1018.61, "num_words": 14.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1018.61, "end": 1019.08997 }, { "text": "Also son Verständnis für Zwänge, die's halt gibt, ne, und Anforderungen.", "start": 1019.08997, "end": 1022.47 } ], "start": 1018.61, "end": 1022.47, "num_words": 12.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 1023.00995, "end": 1023.50995 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1023.56995, "end": 1023.97 }, { "text": "Und auch Zeiträume ist ja auch noch 'n ganz wichtiger Punkt.", "start": 1023.97, "end": 1026.63 } ], "start": 1023.00995, "end": 1026.63, "num_words": 13.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 1026.69, "end": 1027.19 }, { "text": "Sophie, wie weit seid ihr denn da reingegangen?", "start": 1027.89, "end": 1029.91 }, { "text": "Also seid ihr nur zu der Problembeschreibung beschreibung gegangen oder habt ihr dann auch wirklich gesagt, guck mal, diese Maßnahme könnte für uns funktionieren und diese auch?", "start": 1029.97, "end": 1039.325 } ], "start": 1026.69, "end": 1039.325, "num_words": 36.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also 'n großen Teil hat schon diese Problemaufnahme, sag ich mal, eingenommen, einfach dadurch, dass ja alle das erste Mal son bisschen miteinander in Kontakt gekommen sind.", "start": 1041.225, "end": 1049.91 }, { "text": "Wir haben aber dann auch versucht, uns darüber auszutauschen, was eigentlich so gute Sachen sind, die schon aufgefallen sind.", "start": 1049.91, "end": 1055.8301 }, { "text": "Also ich weiß zum Beispiel zu diesem Thema Fehlerkultur etablieren und so weiter, dass es dann Beispiele gibt, wo es halt auch wirklich so Runden gibt, wo sich einfach mal nur darüber ausgetauscht wird, was eigentlich gerade alles doof läuft, sage ich mal so salopp.", "start": 1055.8301, "end": 1068.8049 }, { "text": "Weil das kann ja aber auch son bisschen noch mal die Motivation wieder fördern, gerade in so längerwierigen Wandelungsprozessen, die halt ja die digitale Transformation einfach ist.", "start": 1070.785, "end": 1079.6 }, { "text": "Es ging halt auch stärker darum, erst die Ideen zu sammeln und das mehr so als Impulse zu betrachten, die dann halt auch noch weiter diskutiert werden können.", "start": 1079.66, "end": 1086.845 } ], "start": 1041.225, "end": 1086.845, "num_words": 146.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Dementsprechend hab ich jetzt nicht die perfekte Lösung, 1 dieser Probleme direkt ranzugehen.", "start": 1086.845, "end": 1092.5449 }, { "text": "Aber es gibt auch immer wieder positive Beispiele.", "start": 1092.6849, "end": 1094.945 } ], "start": 1086.845, "end": 1094.945, "num_words": 21.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also zum Beispiel in dem Papier, was ihr dann nach dem Workshop veröffentlicht habt, steht so so was wie Fuck up Night drin, ne?", "start": 1095.565, "end": 1101.54 }, { "text": "Ne?", "start": 1101.54, "end": 1101.7959 }, { "text": "Ja, genau.", "start": 1101.7959, "end": 1102.3075 }, { "text": "Man son Format dann auch für die Verwaltung.", "start": 1102.3075, "end": 1104.3539 }, { "text": "Also gibt's das schon oder könnte es das nur", "start": 1104.3539, "end": 1106.6561 } ], "start": 1095.565, "end": 1106.6561, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "geben?", "start": 1106.6561, "end": 1106.9119 } ], "start": 1106.6561, "end": 1106.9119, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Nee, das gibt's schon.", "start": 1106.9119, "end": 1107.935 }, { "text": "Das nennt sich Gescheiter weiter.", "start": 1107.935, "end": 1109.2141 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 1109.2141, "end": 1109.47 }, { "text": "Und das ist, also da hatten die verschiedene Verwaltungsmitarbeitende sehr positiv zum Beispiel von berichtet, dass das schon auch recht etabliert, sag ich mal, nicht.", "start": 1109.47, "end": 1115.865 }, { "text": "Zum Beispiel von berichtet, dass das schon auch recht etabliert sei.", "start": 1116.025, "end": 1118.985 } ], "start": 1106.9119, "end": 1118.985, "num_words": 46.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ich mein, ich war jetzt selber nicht da, ich kann jetzt keine persönliche Einschätzung da liefern, aber von unserem Workshop teilnehmen wurde das sehr gelobt.", "start": 1118.985, "end": 1128.525 } ], "start": 1118.985, "end": 1128.525, "num_words": 25.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ich find auch den Namen schon brillant.", "start": 1128.6, "end": 1130.1599 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 1130.1599, "end": 1130.52 }, { "text": "Weil genau darum geht es ja, durch das Scheitern zu lernen und dann besser weiterzumachen.", "start": 1130.52, "end": 1134.7 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 1135.0, "end": 1135.16 }, { "text": "Ist ja auch aus Organisationsperspektive ganz wichtig, dass man aus diesen nicht so gut gelaufenen Projekten lernt und auch ändern kann.", "start": 1135.16, "end": 1142.14 } ], "start": 1128.6, "end": 1142.14, "num_words": 45.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und das, was Mike grade genannt hat, also dieser dieser Karriereaspekt, also dieses ich komme eher durch Bewahrung voran als durch Innovation.", "start": 1143.125, "end": 1151.4651 }, { "text": "Also gibt's da auch schon Formate, wo man sagt, das ist einfach die Beförderung hängt eher daran, bring ich Innovation voran in meinem Bereich?", "start": 1151.685, "end": 1159.41 } ], "start": 1143.125, "end": 1159.41, "num_words": 46.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also das, was es ja gibt, ist in auf verschiedenen Ebenen eine stärkere Wirkungsorientierung in die Verwaltungsarbeit zu bringen.", "start": 1162.11, "end": 1169.89 }, { "text": "Und darüber dann mit Instrumenten, mit weicheren Instrumenten wie Zielvereinbarungen und so etwas dann eher in solchen Dimensionen auch punkten zu können.", "start": 1170.805, "end": 1179.625 }, { "text": "Aber da ist natürlich, da hängt mir ja auch wieder 'n ganzer Rattenschwanz dran.", "start": 1179.845, "end": 1182.645 }, { "text": "Das ist natürlich auch der Mindset der der Führungskräfte und die vorgegebenen Strukturen.", "start": 1182.645, "end": 1188.7 }, { "text": "Also das ist ein langsamer Wandlungsprozess, denk ich.", "start": 1188.7, "end": 1191.6 } ], "start": 1162.11, "end": 1191.6, "num_words": 76.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 1192.54, "end": 1193.04 }, { "text": "Das zweite Problem, was ihr beschreibt, würd ich jetzt mal unter der Überschrift Unwissen behandeln.", "start": 1193.98, "end": 1201.985 }, { "text": "Da geht's darum, dass die Verwaltung oft als hermetisch und undurchschaubar wahrgenommen wird von außen.", "start": 1202.045, "end": 1207.165 }, { "text": "Also kann ich mich auch total reinversetzen, zum Beispiel, wenn man son Ausschreibung sieht, ne, und sich denkt so, oh Gott, ich lass es einfach gleich, weil's so kompliziert ist.", "start": 1207.165, "end": 1217.5199 }, { "text": "Hab ich das grad richtig beschrieben?", "start": 1217.5199, "end": 1218.98 } ], "start": 1192.54, "end": 1218.98, "num_words": 67.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, vollkommen richtig.", "start": 1219.6, "end": 1220.8799 }, { "text": "Ich hab da immer sein kafkareskes Bild vor Augen, ja, vor dem Gericht.", "start": 1220.8799, "end": 1224.4199 }, { "text": "Das ist ja auch sehr verständlich.", "start": 1224.72, "end": 1225.84 }, { "text": "Also, Verwaltung sind hochkomplexe Organisationen, die vielfältige Aufgaben haben, die nicht besonders oft nicht besonders stark darin sind, nach außen zu kommunizieren, vorsichtig formuliert.", "start": 1225.84, "end": 1237.565 }, { "text": "Und dann auch ja auch noch was von einem wollen klassischerweise Und dementsprechend, dass man dann son Zum Beispiel ein ein ganz kleines Instrument ist ja, sobald man mit der Verwaltung irgendwas zu tun hat, kriegt man häufig, wenn man's beantragt oder sich auf sone Ausschreibung bewirbt, kriegt man häufig sehr wenig Feedback innerhalb des Prozesses.", "start": 1238.105, "end": 1257.38 } ], "start": 1219.6, "end": 1257.38, "num_words": 102.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sondern reicht man halt seine seine Unterlagen da ein, den Auftrag zu bekommen und kriegt dann x Monate später mitgeteilt, tut mir leid, 'n anderer ist es geworden oder auch, man kriegt den Zuschlag, kann ja auch mal passieren.", "start": 1258.1151, "end": 1272.535 }, { "text": "Aber dazwischen die Kommunikation dazwischen ist sehr häufig in sehr vielen Prozessen, in sehr vielen Formaten halt sehr schwach ausgeprägt und das verstärkt natürlich diesen Eindruck, dass man da vor einem Monolithen steht, den man nicht verstehen kann.", "start": 1273.1599, "end": 1287.34 } ], "start": 1258.1151, "end": 1287.34, "num_words": 77.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, also diese sprichwörtlichen Mühlen, ne und dass es eigentlich besser wär, wenn die eine Mühle zu Ende gemahlen hätte, dann sagt's, okay, von meiner Seite sieht's gut aus, ich geborene's mal weiter in den Bereich, weiß ich nicht was, Brandschutz oder irgendwas.", "start": 1287.9049, "end": 1299.105 }, { "text": "Also dass man so Zwischenschritte mitgeteilt bekommt, Ja.", "start": 1299.105, "end": 1302.0249 }, { "text": "Ist immer gut.", "start": 1302.065, "end": 1302.75 } ], "start": 1287.9049, "end": 1302.75, "num_words": 54.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, das wär großartig.", "start": 1302.83, "end": 1303.79 }, { "text": "Also im im gesamten Bereich, also von von klassischen Anträgen bis hin auch so in Kooperationsbeziehungen, in Geschäftsanbahnungen ist das natürlich auch für die Unternehmen eine ganz wichtige Information.", "start": 1303.79, "end": 1313.31 }, { "text": "Bin ich noch im Rennen?", "start": 1313.31, "end": 1314.11 }, { "text": "Hab ich noch eine Chance oder ich mich anders umgucken?", "start": 1314.11, "end": 1316.775 } ], "start": 1302.83, "end": 1316.775, "num_words": 48.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Na ja, auf jeden Fall, weil da hängt ja, also für grade für Start ups, die ja finanziell immer 'n bisschen wackelig aufgestellt sind, die können so was ja noch viel schlechter aussitzen als jetzt vielleicht 'n großes Unternehmen, ne?", "start": 1316.835, "end": 1328.17 } ], "start": 1316.835, "end": 1328.17, "num_words": 40.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, genau, genau.", "start": 1328.17, "end": 1329.37 }, { "text": "Also da sind wir beim Thema Geschwindigkeit.", "start": 1329.37, "end": 1332.81 }, { "text": "Start ups sind ja oder das Wichtigste ist ja der erste Auftrag, den man möglichst schnell reinholen muss.", "start": 1332.81, "end": 1339.05 }, { "text": "Und wenn man dann Ausschreibungsprozesse auf der anderen Seite hat, die sich über Monate hinziehen, dann kann alleine das schon ein Riesenproblem werden.", "start": 1339.05, "end": 1345.0851 } ], "start": 1328.17, "end": 1345.0851, "num_words": 51.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sophie, kannst Du noch mal 'n bisschen erzählen, wie wurde das dann in dem Workshop?", "start": 1346.8251, "end": 1350.425 }, { "text": "Also Du hast ja wahrscheinlich noch so die die Formulierungen auch im Ohr, ne?", "start": 1350.425, "end": 1353.865 }, { "text": "Also wie wie haben die das da beschrieben?", "start": 1353.865, "end": 1355.645 } ], "start": 1346.8251, "end": 1355.645, "num_words": 37.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also ich glaub, das Wort, was am häufigsten gefallen ist, ist einfach kompliziert, also grad bei diesem Ausschreibung und bei der Ausschreibungsthematik bei Vergabe, dass es halt einfach unheimlich komplex ist und man ist ja auch an die Sprache schon allein nicht gewöhnt, wenn man jetzt damit nicht so viel zu tun hat.", "start": 1357.16, "end": 1374.335 }, { "text": "Es war schon ja schon der der erste Schritt, wo man sich erst mal denkt, hm, hab ich das jetzt überhaupt hier richtig verstanden, was ich hier gerade gelesen habe?", "start": 1374.335, "end": 1381.715 }, { "text": "Dementsprechend haben sich da glaube ich auch einige etwas überwältigt von gefühlt.", "start": 1382.095, "end": 1385.215 }, { "text": "Auf der anderen Seite gibt es ja auch schon Start-up, die jetzt schon 'n bisschen mehr Erfahrung gesammelt haben.", "start": 1385.215, "end": 1389.39 }, { "text": "Also man sieht auch, das ist jetzt kein unüberwindbares Hindernis oder so, aber man muss sich halt eben damit auseinandersetzen und man braucht auch gewisse Hilfestellungen und das ist halt, glaub ich, 'n wichtiger Punkt, dass man einfach sagt, okay, ich lass mich davon jetzt nicht auch total abschrecken, weil wir werden das jetzt wahrscheinlich nicht superschnell gelöst kriegen, dass das plötzlich alles ganz toll und offen ist und wir es alles verstehen können, sondern dass wir jetzt auch erst mal Maßnahmen etablieren, die jetzt schnell hilfreich sind.", "start": 1389.39, "end": 1417.9 } ], "start": 1357.16, "end": 1417.9, "num_words": 202.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also dass wir zum Beispiel Ansprechpartner für Start ups irgendwie etablieren oder dass man so Onlineangebote auch nutzt, die das schon 'n bisschen besser zusammenfassen wie Co Inno oder so.", "start": 1417.9, "end": 1430.38 }, { "text": "Also da gibt es ja schon Sachen.", "start": 1430.38, "end": 1432.0801 } ], "start": 1417.9, "end": 1432.0801, "num_words": 37.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1432.5851, "end": 1432.665 }, { "text": "Also dass man so was wie son Ausschreibungslotsen vielleicht hätte, ne, den man dann ansprechen kann und sagen kann, hm, ich weiß nicht, ob ich das richtig verstanden oder so.", "start": 1432.665, "end": 1441.5651 } ], "start": 1432.5851, "end": 1441.5651, "num_words": 31.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, genau.", "start": 1441.625, "end": 1442.525 } ], "start": 1441.625, "end": 1442.525, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1443.145, "end": 1443.2251 }, { "text": "Aber ohne Ausschreibung geht's ja nicht, ne.", "start": 1443.2251, "end": 1445.545 }, { "text": "Das ist ja schon 'n Format, da ist die Verwaltung einfach Verwaltung und es muss auch so sein, oder?", "start": 1445.545, "end": 1451.5599 } ], "start": 1443.145, "end": 1451.5599, "num_words": 27.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also es gibt ja schon auch Vergabeverfahren, die einfach Also das ist immer eine Frage des Preises letztendlich auch.", "start": 1453.22, "end": 1460.44 } ], "start": 1453.22, "end": 1460.44, "num_words": 19.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja und also einerseits des Preises, je geringer der Wert, desto leichter ist es im Zweifel.", "start": 1462.365, "end": 1468.225 }, { "text": "Aber es gibt ja auch innovative Vergabeverfahren, die ja eigentlich dafür gedacht sind, genau solche solche Prozesse zu unterstützen, aber die dann andersrum wieder eine andere Komplexität entfalten und dadurch dann noch langwieriger und noch schwieriger werden.", "start": 1468.845, "end": 1482.6 } ], "start": 1462.365, "end": 1482.6, "num_words": 53.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 1482.82, "end": 1483.22 } ], "start": 1482.82, "end": 1483.22, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also das ist das ist ein son son Problem, wo man auch relativ, also wo man sehr viel verändern kann, aber wo wo dann wirklich diese unterschiedlichen Zielsetzungen auch voll aufeinanderprallen, weil das Vergaberecht sehr lange geprägt war von Korruptionsprävention Ja.", "start": 1483.22, "end": 1500.595 }, { "text": "Im Kern und dementsprechend alles sehr stark darauf ausgerichtet war, dass die Prozesse im im Grunde transparent und sehr marktorientiert, wie das dann heißt, passieren.", "start": 1500.6749, "end": 1512.92 }, { "text": "Das ist natürlich in der Wirtschaft ganz anders, ne.", "start": 1513.22, "end": 1516.615 }, { "text": "Also wenn wenn da jemand mit Geld eine tolle Idee finden hört und dann kann er mal sagen, das machen wir jetzt mal eben.", "start": 1516.615, "end": 1523.0349 }, { "text": "Das geht in der Verwaltung in der Tat nicht.", "start": 1523.335, "end": 1525.335 } ], "start": 1483.22, "end": 1525.335, "num_words": 108.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Aber es gibt gute Instrumente, wie man dieses zwischenzeitlich extrem starre Vergabewesen ein bisschen auflockern kann.", "start": 1525.335, "end": 1533.2201 } ], "start": 1525.335, "end": 1533.2201, "num_words": 16.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und gibt's da auch sone Konkurrenzsituation, frag ich mich jetzt grade, also dass man mit 'nem Wirtschaftsunternehmen, was eben schneller ist bei solchen Sachen, in Konkurrenz steht und sich das Start-up dann sagt, okay, dann meist halt für die und nicht für die Verwaltung?", "start": 1533.68, "end": 1548.365 }, { "text": "Also oder ist es doch so spezialisiert von der Dienstleistung, dass eigentlich die Verwaltung der einzig logische Abnehmer wäre?", "start": 1548.425, "end": 1555.165 } ], "start": 1533.68, "end": 1555.165, "num_words": 63.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Gibt's nur eine juristische Antwort drauf, es kommt drauf an, aber in der Tat, genau das passiert auch tatsächlich.", "start": 1556.28, "end": 1561.4 }, { "text": "Also 'n 'n Start-up hat ja vielleicht das Verständnis, was für den öffentlichen Sektor machen zu wollen, aber hat letztlich ja ein Produkt und wenn das auch in der Wirtschaft einsetzbar ist, warum soll es dann nicht auch eine Wirtschaft verkaufen?", "start": 1561.4, "end": 1573.515 }, { "text": "Und so spricht überhaupt gar nichts gegen.", "start": 1573.655, "end": 1575.435 } ], "start": 1556.28, "end": 1575.435, "num_words": 67.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1575.495, "end": 1575.895 }, { "text": "Also man muss schon 'n bisschen gucken, dass man da auch konkurrenzfähig bleibt sozusagen als Auftraggeber.", "start": 1575.895, "end": 1580.635 } ], "start": 1575.495, "end": 1580.635, "num_words": 17.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Durchaus, also kommt drauf an, wie wie skalierbar die Lösung ist.", "start": 1582.36, "end": 1585.26 }, { "text": "Muss ja keine Konkurrenzsituation sein.", "start": 1585.48, "end": 1587.48 }, { "text": "Also wenn ich an eine Plattform denke oder so, die kann ja auch von Privaten genauso genutzt werden Klar, ja.", "start": 1587.48, "end": 1592.14 }, { "text": "Wie schon gesagt, typisch juristische Antwort, kommt drauf an.", "start": 1593.24, "end": 1595.925 }, { "text": "Aber in der Tat sollte man sich als als strategischer Einkäufer, als strategische Einkäuferin über solche Sachen halt eben auch Gedanken machen.", "start": 1595.925, "end": 1603.765 } ], "start": 1582.36, "end": 1603.765, "num_words": 67.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wenn ich jetzt es einfach nicht schaffe, aus diversen formalen Gründen Gavtext zu beauftragen, dann bricht mir natürlich auch irgendwann mal das Angebot weg.", "start": 1603.765, "end": 1613.9199 }, { "text": "Und das ist klar, wenn die nie 'n Auftrag von mir kriegen, dann macht mir auch keiner mehr 1.", "start": 1613.9199, "end": 1617.52 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1617.52, "end": 1617.9199 }, { "text": "Also deswegen auf soner etwas strategischen Ebene sehe ich das genauso, wie Du's beschrieben hast.", "start": 1617.9199, "end": 1622.6599 } ], "start": 1603.765, "end": 1622.6599, "num_words": 59.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und wie steht's mit der Auffindbarkeit?", "start": 1623.015, "end": 1624.715 }, { "text": "Also Stichwort zentrale Vergabeplattformen?", "start": 1626.295, "end": 1628.235 }, { "text": "Also die Frage ist ja, ob die Suchen und die Findenden überhaupt zusammenfinden, Oder läuft das eigentlich gut an der Stelle?", "start": 1628.855, "end": 1639.77 } ], "start": 1623.015, "end": 1639.77, "num_words": 31.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also unsere Workshop Teilnehmenden haben sich sehr dafür ausgesprochen, eine zentrale Vergabeplattform zu etablieren und die dann auch vernünftig zu nutzen.", "start": 1640.55, "end": 1649.8301 }, { "text": "Die haben schon eher beschrieben, dass sie Schwierigkeiten haben nach wie vor, auch Ausschreibungen zu finden, auch Ausschreibungen zu finden, die überhaupt in irgend 'ner Form per volksversprechend sind.", "start": 1649.8301, "end": 1659.565 }, { "text": "Also ich glaube, das ist auch 'n wichtiger Punkt, unterscheiden zu können, bei welcher Ausschreibung, selbst wenn die im ersten Moment interessant klingen mag, ist denn jetzt überhaupt das möglich, sich drauf zu bewerben beziehungsweise wo ist es überhaupt erfolgsversprechend, sich dann auch drauf zu bewerben?", "start": 1660.025, "end": 1676.63 }, { "text": "Also da gibt's schon noch Probleme, würde ich sagen.", "start": 1677.09, "end": 1680.3099 } ], "start": 1640.55, "end": 1680.3099, "num_words": 105.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 1680.3949, "end": 1680.7949 }, { "text": "Und da hab ich mir das klassische Blackbox Problem, von dem wir eben gesprochen haben.", "start": 1680.7949, "end": 1684.075 }, { "text": "Also ich weiß ja bei soner Ausschreibung oft extrem wenig, zum Beispiel wie die Konkurrenzlage ist.", "start": 1684.075, "end": 1689.695 }, { "text": "Bewerben sich da jetzt 100 Leute drauf oder 100 Unternehmen drauf oder sind's nur 3?", "start": 1689.7549, "end": 1693.995 }, { "text": "Das erinnert natürlich meine Chancen ganz dramatisch.", "start": 1693.995, "end": 1696.47 } ], "start": 1680.3949, "end": 1696.47, "num_words": 54.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wenn man sone klassische Ausschreibung hat, bei der man eine Erfolgsquote von 10 Prozent hat oder so was, dann dann ist es ja auch eine Frage des Aufwands.", "start": 1696.93, "end": 1705.81 }, { "text": "Also kann ich mir das überhaupt leisten, 10 Angebote abzugeben, in der Hoffnung, dass ich dann einmal 'n Zuschlag kriege.", "start": 1705.81, "end": 1712.695 } ], "start": 1696.93, "end": 1712.695, "num_words": 48.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, ja, weil's ja doch aufwendig ist.", "start": 1712.695, "end": 1714.135 }, { "text": "Und wär's dann der bessere Weg eigentlich, wenn in der Verwaltung irgend eine Stelle total gut wüsste, wo es vielleicht schon zusammenarbeiten gibt und welche Unternehmen interessant sind und die dann anspricht und sagt, hey, bewerbt euch doch mal auf diese Ausschreibung?", "start": 1714.135, "end": 1726.71 } ], "start": 1712.695, "end": 1726.71, "num_words": 49.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also solche Intermediäre sind, glaub ich, extrem wichtig und da gibt es ja auch, also gerade hier im Gav Tech Campus und solche Instrumente, wo man das dann ein bisschen bündeln kann und dann auch son bisschen beide Seiten sehen kann und das Matching son bisschen hinkriegen kann.", "start": 1727.41, "end": 1740.5651 }, { "text": "Und wenn man's dann noch hinkriegt, etwas innovativer zu vergeben, dann kann das enorm hilfreich sein, kann das 'n sehr wichtiger Katalysator sein.", "start": 1740.5651, "end": 1750.025 } ], "start": 1727.41, "end": 1750.025, "num_words": 71.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Als 'n drittes Problem hab ich mir hier aufgeschrieben, das Stichwort kurzfristige Hypes statt langfristiger Strategie.", "start": 1750.47, "end": 1759.19 }, { "text": "Das widerspricht ja eigentlich 'n bisschen dem, was wir gerade gesagt haben, ne?", "start": 1759.19, "end": 1762.07 }, { "text": "Möglichst schneller, möglichst agiler.", "start": 1762.07, "end": 1763.61 }, { "text": "Was hat's denn damit auf sich?", "start": 1764.645, "end": 1766.5851 } ], "start": 1750.47, "end": 1766.5851, "num_words": 39.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das ist, glaube ich, vor allem auf so die Beobachtung zurückzuführen, dass es halt immer wieder so Trendtechnologien gibt, sag ich mal, die dann plötzlich ganz, ganz doll gewollt werden, egal ob das jetzt wirklich sinnvoll ist oder nicht, sag ich mal.", "start": 1767.4451, "end": 1780.99 }, { "text": "Also dass das manchmal son bisschen der Trend dahin geht zu sagen, ah ja, das scheint jetzt grade das Beste zu sein, das machen wir jetzt und teilweise noch so ganz langfristig geschaut wird und das ist, glaube ich, dann auch 'n Problem, was auch insbesondere Gavtech Start ups betrifft, die zwar zum einen natürlich auch so auf diese Trends aufspringen können, auf der anderen Seite vielleicht auch ja schon Lösungen anbieten, die jetzt nicht gerade das Trendthema sind, die aber trotzdem total hilfreich sind, aber dadurch dann irgendwie der Fokus 'n bisschen verschoben wird auf dieses neue Trendthema.", "start": 1780.99, "end": 1813.37 }, { "text": "Und auch aus der Verwaltungsperspektive heraus geht's, glaub ich, da auch 'n bisschen die Nachvollziehbarkeit, warum machen wir denn jetzt das und nicht was anderes?", "start": 1814.23, "end": 1821.8351 }, { "text": "Und da haben halt verschiedene Leute so beschrieben, ja, es ist halt wirklich son bisschen der der Nutzen noch nicht ganz klar, wenn vielleicht schon 'n Projekt angeschoben wird.", "start": 1822.135, "end": 1831.5951 } ], "start": 1767.4451, "end": 1831.5951, "num_words": 195.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1832.3099, "end": 1832.39 }, { "text": "Also wär so was wie, also ich erklär uns jetzt hier auch 'n bisschen für mitschuldig, weil wir die Themen ja auch hier schon besprochen haben, aber so was wie Augmented Reality.", "start": 1832.39, "end": 1840.97 }, { "text": "Und dann ist es das nächste große Ding und man braucht ganz dringend in jedem Bereich so'ne Anwendung.", "start": 1841.4299, "end": 1847.915 }, { "text": "Also sowas meinst Du, oder?", "start": 1848.2151, "end": 1849.915 } ], "start": 1832.3099, "end": 1849.915, "num_words": 56.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, also es gibt bis Sicherheit auch viele Bereiche, wo das durchaus sinnvoll ist.", "start": 1850.295, "end": 1853.5751 }, { "text": "Das wollte ich jetzt hier auch gar nicht so darstellen, als sei das nicht sinnvoll, genau.", "start": 1853.5751, "end": 1857.8151 }, { "text": "Aber es macht halt keinen Sinn zu sagen, boah, das ist jetzt gerade total toll und das halt mich noch mal dann auch einzugrenzen, sag ich mal, für welche Bereiche das jetzt wirklich toll ist.", "start": 1857.8151, "end": 1867.0099 } ], "start": 1850.295, "end": 1867.0099, "num_words": 65.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir sind komplett unschuldig, weil wir das natürlich immer mitdenken.", "start": 1867.1499, "end": 1870.7699 }, { "text": "Entschuldigung.", "start": 1872.19, "end": 1872.69 }, { "text": "Nein, ich wollte dir noch mal ganz kurz, was Du eben auch in deiner in deiner Frage hattest, darauf eingehen, diese dieser scheinbare Widerspruch zwischen Langfristigkeit und kurzfristiges Agieren, den den finde ich auch ganz wichtig.", "start": 1873.07, "end": 1886.985 }, { "text": "Also natürlich will 'n Unternehmen möglichst schnell dann Geschäfte machen, ist auch vollkommen klar.", "start": 1887.4451, "end": 1892.3451 }, { "text": "Nur auf der anderen Seite liefert es natürlich eine Orientierung, wenn die Verwaltung zeigt, das sind unsere langfristigen Ziele und da kann man dann vielleicht auch in 3 Jahren das Produkt weiterentwickeln in die Richtung, wie es die Verwaltung braucht.", "start": 1893.17, "end": 1905.11 } ], "start": 1867.1499, "end": 1905.11, "num_words": 101.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und dann da gibt es immer so ein auf Unternehmensseite dann wieder ein Spannungsfeld, so so risikobehaftet und Unsicherheit Unsicherheit ist das größte Gift für die Wirtschaft.", "start": 1905.7849, "end": 1916.0249 }, { "text": "Und je mehr man das rausnehmen kann, desto besser ist es.", "start": 1916.0249, "end": 1919.3049 }, { "text": "Und solche langfristigen Strategien", "start": 1919.3049, "end": 1921.325 } ], "start": 1905.7849, "end": 1921.325, "num_words": 42.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wenn man sagt, es braucht eigentlich eine langfristige Strategie und die ist dann im Idealfall Behördenübergreifend und bundesweit.", "start": 1928.88, "end": 1938.115 }, { "text": "Das muss doch dann eigentlich von der Politik kommen, oder?", "start": 1938.335, "end": 1940.495 }, { "text": "Das können doch gar nicht die einzelnen Häuser für sich machen.", "start": 1940.495, "end": 1943.6349 } ], "start": 1928.88, "end": 1943.6349, "num_words": 39.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Jein, es spricht ja nichts dagegen, das auch auf unterschiedlichen Ebenen zu machen.", "start": 1944.8949, "end": 1948.11 }, { "text": "Das Beispiel, das mir jetzt einfällt, ist auch was wie das OZG oder Sonderzugangsgesetz mit klaren Fristen, in 5 Jahren digitalisieren wir alle Verwaltungsprozesse.", "start": 1948.27, "end": 1956.29 }, { "text": "Das ist ja mal, wie soll man sagen, ein Pfund für die strategische Ausrichtung.", "start": 1956.99, "end": 1961.01 }, { "text": "Da kann man sich dann auf 5 Jahre dann in der Waffe einstellen, dass halt eine Vielzahl von Verwaltungsprozessen digitalisiert werden und ich kann mir überlegen, wo ist mein spezifischer Beitrag dazu?", "start": 1961.47, "end": 1972.4049 }, { "text": "Und das lässt sich natürlich, also zg 2 0 haben wir jetzt auch wieder auch wieder mit Fristen, wo man sich auch wieder dran orientieren kann und gucken kann, welche Verfahren sind vielleicht noch nicht so ideal digitalisiert und wo könnte ich mich da andocken und das kann ich dann natürlich auch wieder runterbrechen für jede für jedes einzelne Haus oder für jedes einzelne Ressort.", "start": 1972.705, "end": 1991.295 } ], "start": 1944.8949, "end": 1991.295, "num_words": 148.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also ja, es ist eine politische Grundsatzentscheidung, wo soll die Reise hingehen?", "start": 1991.375, "end": 1994.655 }, { "text": "Natürlich.", "start": 1994.655, "end": 1995.155 }, { "text": "Nur dann die konkrete Operationisierung, das, wo sich die Unternehmen dran dranhängen können, das ist dann schon Strategie der Häuser und einzelnen Einheiten.", "start": 1995.775, "end": 2003.395 } ], "start": 1991.375, "end": 2003.395, "num_words": 36.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, okay.", "start": 2003.65, "end": 2004.39 }, { "text": "Aber das heißt, man man schafft im Prinzip ja auch, man man bereitet so den Boden dafür, dass überhaupt vielleicht erst Gofftext oder Civictext entstehen können, weil die einfach diesen Horizont vor Augen haben,", "start": 2004.53, "end": 2016.15 } ], "start": 2003.65, "end": 2016.15, "num_words": 36.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "dass", "start": 2017.25, "end": 2017.41 } ], "start": 2017.25, "end": 2017.41, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "sie wissen, okay, in 5 Jahren das und das Ziel, da entwickle ich doch mal was, damit die da schneller hinkommen.", "start": 2017.41, "end": 2023.735 }, { "text": "Darum geht's ja, ne?", "start": 2024.355, "end": 2025.6549 } ], "start": 2017.41, "end": 2025.6549, "num_words": 25.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 2025.715, "end": 2026.115 }, { "text": "Also beim Entstehen bin ich mir nicht ganz so sicher, weil 5 Jahre fürn Start-up ist schon ziemlich lang.", "start": 2026.115, "end": 2031.3949 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 2031.3949, "end": 2031.7949 }, { "text": "Die Durststrecke zu überleben.", "start": 2031.955, "end": 2033.1549 }, { "text": "Aber wenn ich schon im Geschäft bin und mir dann anzugucken, wie kann ich mein Produkt, das ich habe oder wie kann ich das weiterentwickeln oder ein zusätzliches Produkt entwickeln, dafür ist es natürlich sehr hilfreich.", "start": 2033.1549, "end": 2045.38 } ], "start": 2025.715, "end": 2045.38, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sophie, wir haben jetzt 3 Problemfelder exemplarisch ausgewählt.", "start": 2045.875, "end": 2049.415 }, { "text": "Würdest Du sagen, es gibt noch eine Sache, die auch einfach 'n Riesenthema war bei diesem Workshop, über das wir noch reden sollten?", "start": 2050.355, "end": 2056.775 } ], "start": 2045.875, "end": 2056.775, "num_words": 31.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also ich glaube, das war quasi gar kein Thema des eigentlichen Workshops, aber diese Vernetzung zu dritt untereinander, weil wir haben immer sehr, sehr viel über einzelne Komponenten gesprochen.", "start": 2058.6099, "end": 2069.41 }, { "text": "Wie kann Gav Tech und Verwaltung besser zusammenarbeiten?", "start": 2069.41, "end": 2071.59 }, { "text": "Wie kann Civic Tech und Verwaltung besser zusammenarbeiten?", "start": 2071.81, "end": 2074.675 }, { "text": "Und aber diese übergeordnete Frage, ja, wie kann man sich denn jetzt auch gegenseitig helfen?", "start": 2075.055, "end": 2081.375 }, { "text": "Die war halt auch immer noch so mit dabei.", "start": 2081.375, "end": 2084.095 } ], "start": 2058.6099, "end": 2084.095, "num_words": 69.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also natürlich hilft es dann möglicherweise auch, wenn Gavtech und die Verwaltung gemeinsam irgendwie 'n Problem lösen, das Civic Tech auch hatte.", "start": 2084.095, "end": 2092.3298 }, { "text": "Aber die Vernetzung dieser 3 Akteure zusammen, das war noch son bisschen offen und da ging's halt auch darum, welche Netzwerke kann man denn da überhaupt nutzen?", "start": 2092.71, "end": 2100.95 }, { "text": "Brauch es neue Netzwerke, macht es überhaupt überhaupt Sinn?", "start": 2100.95, "end": 2103.5552 }, { "text": "Das war sone Frage, die auch nicht abschließend gelöst wurde.", "start": 2103.695, "end": 2107.135 }, { "text": "Ich glaube, ein eine Key Message ist auf jeden Fall, wir machen jetzt keine neuen Netzwerke, sondern wenn, dann vernetzen wir unsere Netzwerke.", "start": 2107.135, "end": 2113.5552 } ], "start": 2084.095, "end": 2113.5552, "num_words": 91.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 2115.135, "end": 2115.635 } ], "start": 2115.135, "end": 2115.635, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Jetzt habt ihr aus dem Workshop schon eine Veröffentlichung rausgezogen mit dem Titel Aktionsplan für eine verstärkte Zusammenarbeit von Gove, Tech, SEVI Tech und Verwaltung.", "start": 2116.39, "end": 2127.05 }, { "text": "Ist das sone 1 zu 1 Anleitung?", "start": 2127.67, "end": 2129.27 }, { "text": "Also muss man jetzt eigentlich nur den Aktionsplan umsetzen oder wie ist das gedacht?", "start": 2129.27, "end": 2133.2852 } ], "start": 2116.39, "end": 2133.2852, "num_words": 46.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das weiß ich ja schön, aber nein, leider nicht.", "start": 2133.745, "end": 2136.385 }, { "text": "Dafür sind die Probleme doch 'n bisschen zu komplex.", "start": 2136.385, "end": 2138.8052 }, { "text": "Also die Idee ist dahinter, dass man mal Anregungen sammelt, dass man möglicherweise von diesen Best Practices, die wir tatsächlich schon gesammelt haben, die auch mal 'ner Übersicht hat, dass man vielleicht die tatsächlich direkt irgendwie für sich mal anschauen kann.", "start": 2139.5051, "end": 2153.77 }, { "text": "Aber grundsätzlich geht's eher ja darum, erst mal aufzuzeigen, was sind denn hier gemeinsame Probleme und da dann im Folgenden auch weiter Lösungen zu entwickeln.", "start": 2154.07, "end": 2163.3452 }, { "text": "Und wir haben halt vor allem versucht, jetzt erst mal Ansätze da zu sammeln, also in welche Richtung man überhaupt schauen könnte, Lösungsansätze zu entwickeln.", "start": 2163.3452, "end": 2171.7651 } ], "start": 2133.745, "end": 2171.7651, "num_words": 109.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und wie geht's jetzt weiter?", "start": 2173.38, "end": 2175.0598 }, { "text": "Also das ist ja immer 'n bisschen die Gefahr, ne?", "start": 2175.0598, "end": 2177.2998 }, { "text": "Dann hat man mal über alles geredet und dann macht man so weiter wieder vor.", "start": 2177.2998, "end": 2181.0598 }, { "text": "Also wo bräuchtet ihr jetzt vielleicht auch politische Unterstützung, finanzielle Unterstützung, damit's dann auch wirklich weitergeht in dem Bereich?", "start": 2181.0598, "end": 2188.68 } ], "start": 2173.38, "end": 2188.68, "num_words": 49.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also ich glaub, ein Ziel wär auf jeden Fall, dass man diese Akteure auch noch mal in anderen Konstellationen zusammenbringt, dass die Personen einzeln natürlich auch sich so diese Gedanken dazu machen und das in ihre Organisation mit reintragen, also dass sich da das vor allem dadurch etwas verstetigt.", "start": 2189.825, "end": 2207.3801 }, { "text": "Und ja, man versucht son bisschen stärker diesen Austausch auch zu etablieren.", "start": 2207.92, "end": 2212.5 } ], "start": 2189.825, "end": 2212.5, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also indem man irgendwie Formate anbietet und sagt, Leute, nächsten Februar wieder da und da.", "start": 2214.705, "end": 2221.5852 }, { "text": "Also genau", "start": 2221.5852, "end": 2222.725 } ], "start": 2214.705, "end": 2222.725, "num_words": 17.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sowas könnte ich mir vorstellen.", "start": 2223.0251, "end": 2224.5652 } ], "start": 2223.0251, "end": 2224.5652, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, von solchen Formaten gibt's ja auch schon 'n paar.", "start": 2225.3452, "end": 2227.86 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 2227.9402, "end": 2228.1 }, { "text": "Und 'n paar bieten wir selbst ja auch an, also grade wenn's Richtung Zivilgesellschaft geht, haben wir ja eine große Konferenz jedes Jahr.", "start": 2228.1, "end": 2234.52 }, { "text": "Also da Das gilt es sicherlich noch weiter zu unterstützen und weiter zu treiben.", "start": 2234.58, "end": 2238.9202 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 2239.78, "end": 2240.28 } ], "start": 2225.3452, "end": 2240.28, "num_words": 49.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 2241.075, "end": 2241.155 }, { "text": "Wir haben jetzt das Thema Geld son bisschen ausgespart.", "start": 2241.155, "end": 2244.615 }, { "text": "Scheitert's auch an nicht vorhandenen finanziellen Ressourcen manchmal in dieser Zusammenarbeit oder falsch verteilten Ressourcen?", "start": 2245.875, "end": 2253.175 } ], "start": 2241.075, "end": 2253.175, "num_words": 25.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also es ist im im Zweifel schon so, dass vermutlich Verwaltungen einen Hang dazu haben, eher groß auszuschreiben und schon alleine, den Verwaltungsaufwand dann wieder dieser Verträge möglichst gering zu halten und nicht allzu viele Dienstleister mit mit an Bord zu haben.", "start": 2255.43, "end": 2273.5251 }, { "text": "So gesehen ist es in in der in der Hinsicht eine vielleicht problematische Verteilung der Finanzen, alles auf einmal auszugeben.", "start": 2273.5251, "end": 2282.345 }, { "text": "Anstatt in vielen kleinen Häppchen, wo ich dann eher kleinere Unternehmen, mit bedienen kann.", "start": 2282.405, "end": 2288.27 }, { "text": "Dann haben wir natürlich noch den Risikoaspekt, haben wir ja auch schon son bisschen auf auf anderer Ebene angesprochen, auf der Mindset Ebene, aber bei der finanziellen Ebene ist es natürlich auch so.", "start": 2289.3699, "end": 2300.1052 }, { "text": "Ich hab da einen einen enormen Begründungsaufwand, wenn ich Geld versenke, weil zum Beispiel das das Unternehmen dann halt einfach den Betrieb einstellt und ich dadurch enorm viel Geld verloren habe und das kann ja auch alles einmal passieren.", "start": 2300.405, "end": 2314.36 } ], "start": 2255.43, "end": 2314.36, "num_words": 148.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Da haben wir eine Problematik und die letzte Problematik, aber jetzt jetzt muss ich wieder eine eine Analyseebene hochgehen.", "start": 2315.06, "end": 2322.935 }, { "text": "Die letzte Problematik, die ich da son bisschen sehe, ist, dass natürlich Wirtschaftlichkeitsgebot der Verwaltung alles öffentliche Gelder, die entsprechend wirtschaftlich vergeben werden müssen auf der einen Seite und auf der anderen Seite sone Start up Logik, die ja auf viel ausprobieren, aber dann halt eben auch auf durchstartende Unicorns setzt.", "start": 2323.155, "end": 2344.82 }, { "text": "Und jetzt wird's wird's schwierig, wenn ich da son Unternehmen habe, das ganz schnell wächst, ganz viel an Wert gewinnt, sehr viel Einnahmen generieren kann.", "start": 2345.28, "end": 2355.4248 }, { "text": "Auf der einen Seite, wenn ich solche solche Unicorns brauche, auf der anderen Seite aber eine Verwaltung habe, die wirtschaftlich vergeben muss, dann beißt sich das so ein bisschen, ne.", "start": 2356.285, "end": 2368.07 }, { "text": "Also da da ist durchaus Vielleicht ist deswegen der GarTech Markt auch 'n bisschen anders als der klassische, zumindest der klassische innovative Start up Markt.", "start": 2368.07, "end": 2377.035 } ], "start": 2315.06, "end": 2377.035, "num_words": 150.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, also es ist wirklich 'n eigener Bereich und halt vielleicht nicht so unicorn fixiert oder so.", "start": 2377.175, "end": 2381.575 } ], "start": 2377.175, "end": 2381.575, "num_words": 17.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, unicorn im Public Bereich wird schwierig.", "start": 2381.575, "end": 2384.635 } ], "start": 2381.575, "end": 2384.635, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Jetzt hast Du grade schon gesagt, also es gibt, ihr habt schon solche Formate, es gibt konkrete Events.", "start": 2386.695, "end": 2392.8801 }, { "text": "Wenn jetzt jemand zugehört hat und möchte sich melden, möchte unser Herzblatt sein, also ein Gav Tech oder Civic Tech Unternehmen, jemand, der da arbeitet.", "start": 2393.66, "end": 2405.115 }, { "text": "Könnt ihr noch mal so einen konkretes Event sagen oder ein Netzwerk, wo ihr sagt, okay, das ist echt 'n guter Zugang, 'n Erstzugang?", "start": 2405.7349, "end": 2415.835 } ], "start": 2386.695, "end": 2415.835, "num_words": 67.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also die der Gav Tech Campus ist sicherlich eine hervorragende Adresse, da mal anzuklopfen.", "start": 2420.36, "end": 2424.54 }, { "text": "Und wir sind natürlich auch eine hervorragende Adresse, weiterzuvermitteln.", "start": 2425.08, "end": 2427.58 }, { "text": "Also bei uns kann man auch einklopfen.", "start": 2427.8801, "end": 2429.26 } ], "start": 2420.36, "end": 2429.26, "num_words": 30.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ich würd auch sagen, wenn man sich zum Beispiel als Verwaltungsmitarbeiterder dafür interessiert, mal stärker so in in Gavtec Start-up oder so reinzuschauen, dann ist auch immer Start-up eine gute Adresse.", "start": 2429.9602, "end": 2440.7952 }, { "text": "Die bieten nämlich zum Beispiel auch so Hospitationsprogramme an.", "start": 2440.7952, "end": 2444.0952 } ], "start": 2429.9602, "end": 2444.0952, "num_words": 40.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das heißt, da könnte ich mal die könnte ich mal in die andere Richtung gehen und da reingucken und wirklich auch mal mitarbeiten in soner Start-up Struktur.", "start": 2445.25, "end": 2452.2102 } ], "start": 2445.25, "end": 2452.2102, "num_words": 27.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, genau.", "start": 2452.2102, "end": 2452.87 } ], "start": 2452.2102, "end": 2452.87, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 2454.29, "end": 2454.79 }, { "text": "Ja, das sind doch sehr gute Anlaufstellen.", "start": 2454.85, "end": 2456.55 }, { "text": "Ich glaube, dann klappt das vielleicht öfter noch mit den Partnerschaften.", "start": 2456.6902, "end": 2460.645 }, { "text": "Danke euch beiden, so vielen, Maik.", "start": 2460.945, "end": 2462.645 } ], "start": 2454.29, "end": 2462.645, "num_words": 25.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir waren gerne dabei.", "start": 2464.2249, "end": 2465.445 } ], "start": 2464.2249, "end": 2465.445, "num_words": 4.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, danke.", "start": 2465.905, "end": 2466.885 } ], "start": 2465.905, "end": 2466.885, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ich danke meinen Gästen heute, Sophie Vogt, wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiterin im Kompetenzzentrum öffentlicher IT und Doktor Mike Weber, stellvertretender Leiter des öfit.", "start": 2470.6199, "end": 2480.5598 }, { "text": "Den Aktionsplan und mehr Hintergrund zum Thema findet ihr online unter öfit Punkt d e mit o e geschrieben und ihr findet die Links auch in den Shownotes.", "start": 2481.0999, "end": 2489.855 }, { "text": "Das war, der Podcast des Kompetenzzentrums öffentlicher IT.", "start": 2490.875, "end": 2495.76 }, { "text": "Wir freuen uns, wenn ihr diesen Podcast weiterempfiehlt.", "start": 2495.84, "end": 2497.86 }, { "text": "Keine Folge zu verpassen, könnt ihr uns auch abonnieren kostenfrei auf Apple Podcasts, Spotify und vielen weiteren Portalen.", "start": 2498.96, "end": 2505.14 } ], "start": 2470.6199, "end": 2505.14, "num_words": 83.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Bis zum nächsten Mal, ich bin Franziska Walser.", "start": 2505.76, "end": 2507.94 }, { "text": "Tschüs.", "start": 2508.08, "end": 2508.58 } ], "start": 2505.76, "end": 2508.58, "num_words": 9.0, "speaker": 0 } ] }, "entities": null, "translations": null, "topics": null } ], "detected_language": "" } ], "utterances": [ { "start": 2.24, "end": 6.58, "confidence": 0.9023363, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Es geht das Zusammenspiel zwischen den Bereichen Civic Tech und GavTech", "words": [ { "word": "es", "start": 2.24, "end": 2.48, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Es", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.8193185 }, { "word": "geht", "start": 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Und wenn es halt nicht miteinander irgendwie abgestimmt ist, dann ist es halt auch schwieriger, das insgesamt gut funktionieren zu lassen. Und ich glaube, was halt auch wichtig ist, ist zu sagen, ja, die können gut zusammenarbeiten, aber es macht natürlich jetzt keinen Sinn, dass jetzt 1 der Akteure an 'nem Problem arbeitet, das er gar nicht hat. 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Genau. Wie ist es denn generell von der Struktur der Zusammenarbeit? 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Also wer war da?", "words": [ { "word": "wie", "start": 710.85, "end": 711.25, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Wie", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.854368 }, { "word": "lief", "start": 711.25, "end": 711.49, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "lief", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.854368 }, { "word": "das", "start": 711.49, "end": 711.73, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "das", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.854368 }, { "word": "dann", "start": 711.73, "end": 711.97, "confidence": 0.8520508, "punctuated_word": "dann", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.854368 }, { "word": "ab", "start": 711.97, "end": 712.13, "confidence": 0.9848633, "punctuated_word": "ab?", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.854368 }, { "word": "also", "start": 712.13, "end": 712.37, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Also", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.854368 }, { "word": "wer", "start": 712.37, "end": 712.52997, "confidence": 0.9921875, "punctuated_word": "wer", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.854368 }, { "word": "war", "start": 712.52997, "end": 712.76996, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "war", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.854368 }, { "word": "da", "start": 712.76996, "end": 713.26996, "confidence": 0.9758301, "punctuated_word": "da?", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.854368 } ], "speaker": 0, "id": "d8d37b43-6eec-49d1-a162-1ccf6beb9e64" }, { "start": 713.97, "end": 714.87, "confidence": 1.0, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Wie war die", "words": [ { "word": "wie", "start": 713.97, "end": 714.13, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Wie", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.854368 }, { "word": "war", "start": 714.13, "end": 714.37, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "war", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.854368 }, { "word": "die", "start": 714.37, "end": 714.87, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "die", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.854368 } ], "speaker": 0, "id": "f50ddc88-11bc-4bbf-b976-8992e9a5d11c" }, { "start": 715.89, "end": 724.47504, "confidence": 0.96814597, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Resonanz? Also da waren vor allem ganz viele Leute eingeladen aus den unterschiedlichen Bereichen. 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Mhm. Und auch Zeiträume ist ja auch noch 'n ganz wichtiger Punkt. 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Ich find auch den Namen schon brillant. Ja. 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Ist immer gut. Ja, das wär großartig. Also im im gesamten Bereich, also von von klassischen Anträgen bis hin auch so in Kooperationsbeziehungen,", "words": [ { "word": "mitgeteilt", "start": 1301.0249, "end": 1301.505, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "mitgeteilt", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.78979933 }, { "word": "bekommt", "start": 1301.505, "end": 1301.825, "confidence": 0.71691895, "punctuated_word": "bekommt,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.78979933 }, { "word": "ja", "start": 1301.985, "end": 1302.0249, "confidence": 0.9658203, "punctuated_word": "Ja.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.78979933 }, { "word": "ist", "start": 1302.065, "end": 1302.225, "confidence": 0.41430664, "punctuated_word": "Ist", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.31545556 }, { "word": "immer", "start": 1302.225, "end": 1302.385, "confidence": 0.86572266, "punctuated_word": "immer", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.31545556 }, { "word": "gut", "start": 1302.385, "end": 1302.75, "confidence": 0.9975586, "punctuated_word": "gut.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.31545556 }, { "word": "ja", "start": 1302.83, "end": 1302.99, "confidence": 0.9748535, "punctuated_word": "Ja,", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.5221933 }, { "word": "das", "start": 1302.99, "end": 1303.15, "confidence": 0.984375, "punctuated_word": "das", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.5221933 }, { "word": "wär", "start": 1303.15, "end": 1303.47, "confidence": 0.87597656, "punctuated_word": "wär", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.5221933 }, { "word": "großartig", "start": 1303.47, "end": 1303.79, "confidence": 0.90844727, "punctuated_word": "großartig.", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.5221933 }, { "word": "also", "start": 1303.79, "end": 1304.11, "confidence": 0.8496094, "punctuated_word": "Also", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.5221933 }, { "word": "im", "start": 1304.11, "end": 1304.35, "confidence": 0.42236328, "punctuated_word": "im", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.5221933 }, { "word": "im", "start": 1304.35, "end": 1304.51, "confidence": 0.57666016, "punctuated_word": "im", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.5221933 }, { "word": "gesamten", "start": 1304.51, "end": 1304.83, "confidence": 0.96533203, "punctuated_word": "gesamten", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.80086344 }, { "word": "bereich", "start": 1304.83, "end": 1305.31, "confidence": 0.9211426, "punctuated_word": "Bereich,", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.80086344 }, { "word": "also", "start": 1305.31, "end": 1305.71, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "also", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.80086344 }, { "word": "von", "start": 1305.71, "end": 1305.95, "confidence": 0.94921875, "punctuated_word": "von", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.80086344 }, { "word": "von", "start": 1305.95, "end": 1306.45, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "von", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.80086344 }, { "word": "klassischen", "start": 1306.67, "end": 1307.15, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "klassischen", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.80086344 }, { "word": "anträgen", "start": 1307.15, "end": 1307.55, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "Anträgen", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.80086344 }, { "word": "bis", "start": 1307.55, "end": 1307.63, "confidence": 0.97802734, "punctuated_word": "bis", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.80086344 }, { "word": "hin", "start": 1307.63, "end": 1307.87, "confidence": 0.99316406, "punctuated_word": "hin", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "auch", "start": 1307.87, "end": 1307.95, "confidence": 0.9892578, "punctuated_word": "auch", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "so", "start": 1307.95, "end": 1308.27, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "so", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "in", "start": 1308.27, "end": 1308.67, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "in", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "kooperationsbeziehungen", "start": 1308.67, "end": 1309.17, "confidence": 0.93619794, "punctuated_word": "Kooperationsbeziehungen,", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 } ], "speaker": 2, "id": "bbdb872f-a5fd-438d-9e83-c8fac8f7318a" }, { "start": 1309.71, "end": 1310.37, "confidence": 0.9168091, "channel": 0, "transcript": "in Geschäftsanbahnungen", "words": [ { "word": "in", "start": 1309.71, "end": 1309.87, "confidence": 0.8769531, "punctuated_word": "in", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "geschäftsanbahnungen", "start": 1309.87, "end": 1310.37, "confidence": 0.95666504, "punctuated_word": "Geschäftsanbahnungen", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 } ], "speaker": 2, "id": "56e56733-eca0-4c74-9ed0-c23be4f47681" }, { "start": 1310.91, "end": 1315.49, "confidence": 0.9536022, "channel": 0, "transcript": "ist das natürlich auch für die Unternehmen eine ganz wichtige Information. Bin ich noch im Rennen? Hab ich noch eine Chance oder", "words": [ { "word": "ist", "start": 1310.91, "end": 1311.07, "confidence": 0.57714844, "punctuated_word": "ist", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "das", "start": 1311.07, "end": 1311.23, "confidence": 0.99316406, "punctuated_word": "das", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "natürlich", "start": 1311.23, "end": 1311.47, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "natürlich", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "auch", "start": 1311.47, "end": 1311.63, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "auch", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "für", "start": 1311.63, "end": 1311.79, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "für", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "die", "start": 1311.79, "end": 1311.95, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "die", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "unternehmen", "start": 1311.95, "end": 1312.27, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Unternehmen", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "eine", "start": 1312.27, "end": 1312.35, "confidence": 0.9838867, "punctuated_word": "eine", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "ganz", "start": 1312.35, "end": 1312.59, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ganz", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "wichtige", "start": 1312.59, "end": 1312.91, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "wichtige", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "information", "start": 1312.91, "end": 1313.31, "confidence": 0.9477539, "punctuated_word": "Information.", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "bin", "start": 1313.31, "end": 1313.47, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "Bin", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "ich", "start": 1313.47, "end": 1313.63, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "noch", "start": 1313.63, "end": 1313.79, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "noch", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "im", "start": 1313.79, "end": 1313.95, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "im", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "rennen", "start": 1313.95, "end": 1314.11, "confidence": 0.7595215, "punctuated_word": "Rennen?", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.88072026 }, { "word": "hab", "start": 1314.11, "end": 1314.27, "confidence": 0.88671875, "punctuated_word": "Hab", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.69216996 }, { "word": "ich", "start": 1314.27, "end": 1314.43, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.69216996 }, { "word": "noch", "start": 1314.43, "end": 1314.59, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "noch", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.69216996 }, { "word": "eine", "start": 1314.59, "end": 1314.75, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "eine", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.69216996 }, { "word": "chance", "start": 1314.75, "end": 1314.99, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Chance", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.69216996 }, { "word": "oder", "start": 1314.99, "end": 1315.49, "confidence": 0.84277344, "punctuated_word": "oder", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.69216996 } ], "speaker": 2, "id": "9c88c444-1b13-4b1a-b541-e1e5d1daa4b0" }, { "start": 1315.795, "end": 1323.095, "confidence": 0.9388631, "channel": 0, "transcript": "ich mich anders umgucken? Na ja, auf jeden Fall, weil da hängt ja, also für grade für Start ups, die ja finanziell immer 'n bisschen wackelig aufgestellt sind,", "words": [ { "word": "ich", "start": 1315.795, "end": 1315.955, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.69216996 }, { "word": "mich", "start": 1315.955, "end": 1316.035, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "mich", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.69216996 }, { "word": "anders", "start": 1316.035, "end": 1316.275, "confidence": 0.98095703, "punctuated_word": "anders", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.69216996 }, { "word": "umgucken", "start": 1316.275, "end": 1316.775, "confidence": 0.9617513, "punctuated_word": "umgucken?", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.69216996 }, { "word": "na", "start": 1316.835, "end": 1317.075, "confidence": 0.62841797, "punctuated_word": "Na", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "ja", "start": 1317.075, "end": 1317.235, "confidence": 0.9880371, "punctuated_word": "ja,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "auf", "start": 1317.235, "end": 1317.395, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "auf", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "jeden", "start": 1317.395, "end": 1317.555, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "jeden", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "fall", "start": 1317.555, "end": 1317.875, "confidence": 0.9880371, "punctuated_word": "Fall,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "weil", "start": 1317.875, "end": 1318.035, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "weil", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "da", "start": 1318.035, "end": 1318.1951, "confidence": 0.9838867, "punctuated_word": "da", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "hängt", "start": 1318.1951, "end": 1318.435, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "hängt", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "ja", "start": 1318.435, "end": 1318.675, "confidence": 0.704834, "punctuated_word": "ja,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "also", "start": 1318.675, "end": 1318.835, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "also", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "für", "start": 1318.835, "end": 1319.075, "confidence": 0.8676758, "punctuated_word": "für", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "grade", "start": 1319.075, "end": 1319.3151, "confidence": 0.6152344, "punctuated_word": "grade", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "für", "start": 1319.3151, "end": 1319.555, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "für", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "start", "start": 1319.555, "end": 1319.795, "confidence": 0.96240234, "punctuated_word": "Start", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "ups", "start": 1319.795, "end": 1320.035, "confidence": 0.99853516, "punctuated_word": "ups,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "die", "start": 1320.035, "end": 1320.275, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "die", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "ja", "start": 1320.275, "end": 1320.435, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ja", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "finanziell", "start": 1320.435, "end": 1320.915, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "finanziell", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "immer", "start": 1320.915, "end": 1321.075, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "immer", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.87382656 }, { "word": "'n", "start": 1321.075, "end": 1321.155, "confidence": 0.9946289, "punctuated_word": "'n", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.94440347 }, { "word": "bisschen", "start": 1321.155, "end": 1321.475, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "bisschen", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.94440347 }, { "word": "wackelig", "start": 1321.475, "end": 1321.875, "confidence": 0.65234375, "punctuated_word": "wackelig", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.94440347 }, { "word": "aufgestellt", "start": 1321.875, "end": 1322.375, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "aufgestellt", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.94440347 }, { "word": "sind", "start": 1322.595, "end": 1323.095, "confidence": 0.97021484, "punctuated_word": "sind,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.94440347 } ], "speaker": 0, "id": "5209062a-6dcf-42f8-b1d2-f0d414f266e3" }, { "start": 1323.715, "end": 1330.99, "confidence": 0.96509767, "channel": 0, "transcript": "die können so was ja noch viel schlechter aussitzen als jetzt vielleicht 'n großes Unternehmen, ne? Ja, genau, genau. 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Start ups sind ja oder das Wichtigste ist ja der erste Auftrag,", "words": [ { "word": "geschwindigkeit", "start": 1332.49, "end": 1332.81, "confidence": 0.9628906, "punctuated_word": "Geschwindigkeit.", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8573592 }, { "word": "start", "start": 1332.81, "end": 1332.97, "confidence": 0.94384766, "punctuated_word": "Start", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8573592 }, { "word": "ups", "start": 1332.97, "end": 1333.37, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ups", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8573592 }, { "word": "sind", "start": 1333.37, "end": 1333.61, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "sind", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8573592 }, { "word": "ja", "start": 1333.61, "end": 1334.11, "confidence": 0.97802734, "punctuated_word": "ja", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8573592 }, { "word": "oder", "start": 1334.17, "end": 1334.67, "confidence": 0.5678711, "punctuated_word": "oder", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8573592 }, { "word": "das", "start": 1334.81, "end": 1335.05, "confidence": 0.8442383, "punctuated_word": "das", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8573592 }, { "word": "wichtigste", "start": 1335.05, "end": 1335.37, "confidence": 0.95703125, "punctuated_word": "Wichtigste", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8573592 }, { "word": "ist", "start": 1335.37, "end": 1335.53, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "ist", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8573592 }, { "word": "ja", "start": 1335.53, "end": 1335.61, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "ja", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.76811194 }, { "word": "der", "start": 1335.61, "end": 1335.85, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "der", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.76811194 }, { "word": "erste", "start": 1335.85, "end": 1336.09, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "erste", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.76811194 }, { "word": "auftrag", "start": 1336.09, "end": 1336.59, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Auftrag,", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.76811194 } ], "speaker": 2, "id": "2268edca-a914-45e2-a6e8-891f7465f743" }, { "start": 1337.37, "end": 1340.11, "confidence": 0.9776278, "channel": 0, "transcript": "den man möglichst schnell reinholen muss. 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"channel": 0, "transcript": "Sophie, kannst Du noch mal 'n bisschen erzählen, wie wurde das dann in dem Workshop? Also Du hast ja wahrscheinlich noch so die die Formulierungen auch im Ohr, ne? 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Es war schon ja schon der der erste Schritt, wo man sich erst mal denkt, hm, hab ich das jetzt überhaupt hier richtig verstanden, was ich hier gerade gelesen habe?", "words": [ { "word": "bei", "start": 1364.76, "end": 1365.0, "confidence": 0.8305664, "punctuated_word": "bei", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7748765 }, { "word": "vergabe", "start": 1365.0, "end": 1365.5, "confidence": 0.98461914, "punctuated_word": "Vergabe,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7748765 }, { "word": "dass", "start": 1365.7999, "end": 1366.04, "confidence": 0.9863281, "punctuated_word": "dass", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7748765 }, { "word": "es", "start": 1366.04, "end": 1366.2, "confidence": 0.9267578, "punctuated_word": "es", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7748765 }, { "word": "halt", "start": 1366.2, "end": 1366.52, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "halt", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7748765 }, { "word": "einfach", "start": 1366.52, "end": 1367.02, 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Auf der anderen Seite gibt es ja auch schon Start-up, die jetzt schon 'n bisschen mehr Erfahrung gesammelt haben. 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Aber ohne Ausschreibung geht's ja nicht, ne. 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Also 'n 'n Start-up hat ja vielleicht das Verständnis, was für den öffentlichen Sektor machen zu wollen, aber hat letztlich ja ein Produkt und wenn das auch in der Wirtschaft einsetzbar ist, warum soll es dann nicht auch eine Wirtschaft verkaufen? Und so spricht überhaupt gar nichts gegen. Mhm. 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Ja. Und da hab ich mir das klassische Blackbox Problem, von dem wir eben gesprochen haben. 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Bewerben sich da jetzt 100 Leute drauf oder 100 Unternehmen drauf oder sind's nur 3? 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"transcript": "und wo könnte ich mich da andocken", "words": [ { "word": "und", "start": 1984.06, "end": 1984.2201, "confidence": 0.89208984, "punctuated_word": "und", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.78028345 }, { "word": "wo", "start": 1984.2201, "end": 1984.38, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "wo", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.78028345 }, { "word": "könnte", "start": 1984.38, "end": 1984.62, "confidence": 0.64746094, "punctuated_word": "könnte", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.78028345 }, { "word": "ich", "start": 1984.62, "end": 1984.78, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.78028345 }, { "word": "mich", "start": 1984.78, "end": 1984.9401, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "mich", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.78028345 }, { "word": "da", "start": 1984.9401, "end": 1985.18, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "da", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.78028345 }, { "word": "andocken", 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Also ja, es ist eine politische Grundsatzentscheidung, wo soll die Reise hingehen? 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Ja, okay. 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Mhm. Also beim Entstehen bin ich mir nicht ganz so sicher, weil 5 Jahre fürn Start-up ist schon ziemlich lang. Ja. Die Durststrecke zu überleben. 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Wie kann Gav Tech und Verwaltung besser zusammenarbeiten? 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Die war halt auch immer noch so mit dabei. 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Das war sone Frage, die auch nicht abschließend gelöst wurde. 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