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Auch im öffentlichen Sektor wird schon mit KI gearbeitet, in Projekten aber auch auf Eigeninitiative, weil einzelne Mitarbeitende frei verfügbare KI Werkzeuge einfach nutzen. Wie diese KI Kompetenz systematisch und flächendeckend in den Organisationen verankert werden kann, darum geht es heute bei. Ich bin Franziska Walser und bin heute digital verbunden mit meinen beiden Co Hosts. Das sind Maximilian Kubi, wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter am Kompetenzzentrum öffentlicher IT, kurz öFIT, mit dem Schwerpunkt Datenanalyse, KI und digitale Verwaltung. Und ebenfalls zugeschaltet ist Nicole Opiella, Politologin und stellvertretende Leiterin des Kompetenzzentrum Öffentlicher IT. Hallo Nicole, hallo Max. Hallo. Hallo Franziska. So, wir sprechen heute über den Einsatz von KI und die Frage ist ja, wir sind so mittendrin, ne? Ich hab ja grade gesagt, es gibt schon Mitarbeitende, die nutzen das, haben sich das Zeug einfach irgendwie runtergeladen, sich 'n Account gemacht. Kann man das nicht einfach laufen lassen in dem Vertrauen darauf, dass das Arbeit abnimmt und das ist Motivation genug? Ja, das ist eine spannende Frage. Das ist wahrscheinlich auch der Ansatz, den viele jetzt aktuell fahren werden. Und wir argumentieren in unserem Kompetenz Framework, dass es eben nicht einfach möglich ist, die Sachen laufen zu lassen, sondern dass es sinnvoll ist, den effektiven und sicheren Einsatz von generativer KI auch nachhaltig sicherzustellen in der Organisation, eben die Kompetenzen nicht als nices Add on sozusagen am Schluss zu sehen. Wenn was eingeführt ist, machen wir jetzt noch schnell die Kompetenzen dazu und das schlauen die Mitarbeiterinnen auf, sondern das als essenzielle Grundlage dafür zu sehen. Mhm. Kannst Du's noch mal 'n bisschen mehr erklären? Also so Worst Case, wenn jetzt da sone wilde Nutzung auf eigene Faust erfolgt? Also was könnte da alles schieflaufen? Genau, Worst Case ist son bisschen das, was einem durch den EU AI Act drohen kann, wenn man quasi die Lösungen, die GenKI Lösungen nicht so einsetzt, dass sie quasi regulatorischen Maßgaben entsprechen. Mhm. Und beispielsweise auch Klassen, ja, ne. Da wird unterteilt Es gibt Risikoklassen, ja. Nutze das zum Beispiel für medizinische Zwecke. Ich nutz das, den Weg nach Hause finden und das sind unterschiedliche Risikoklassen, ne. Genau. Und dann gibt's aber auch noch die die Problematik, dass quasi welche Daten ich damit verwende, jetzt nicht zwangsläufig nur im EU AI Act, sondern auch GDPR, wie heißt das auf Deutsch? Datenschutz Grundverordnung. Datenschutz Grundverordnung heißt das auf Deutsch, genau. Dass das da auch noch festgelegt ist. Das heißt, wenn Mitarbeiter jetzt plötzlich anfangen, irgendwelche persönlichen Daten in, ich sag's jetzt mal, 'n Chatbot einzugeben, dann wird's auch problematisch. Das heißt, auf jeden Fall ein gewisses Grundverständnis ist auf jeden Fall nötig und eine gewisse Sensibilisierung. Aber wir argumentieren eben, dass es darüber auch hinausgehen muss in der Organisation. Warum gibt's jetzt dieses Kompetenz Framework, was ihr entwickelt habt, warum muss sich der öffentliche Sektor wirklich spezifisch zu generativer KI positionieren? Der öffentliche Sektor hat einfach durch seine Aufgaben und durch seine Anwendungsfelder, in denen generative KI zum Einsatz kommen kann, besondere Herausforderungen, weil eben schutzbedürftige Daten verwendet werden oder Entscheidungen getroffen werden, bei denen eben zum Beispiel der EU AI Act oder die Datenschutzgrundverordnung zum Tragen kommen und eben sichergestellt werden muss, dass diese Systeme richtig eingesetzt werden und auf der anderen Seite die Systeme auch entsprechend gestaltet werden, dass sie eben möglichst ausschließen, dass sie nicht konform oder dass sie quasi schadensvoll eingesetzt werden, sozusagen. Generative KI hat einfach 'n ganz großes Potenzial für den öffentlichen Sektor. Da geht es ja darum, dass ich Inhalte generieren kann, also beispielsweise auch Texte, aber natürlich auch Audio-, Videobilder oder Coachnipsel, aber gerade Text ist ja 'n ganz wesentlicher Anwendungsfall für die öffentliche Verwaltung. Das ist sehr textlastig, da müssen Anträge durchgegeben werden. Da wird auch sehr viel an Text produziert, Entscheidungsvorlagen, Beschlüsse, Bescheide werden erstellt. Es muss auch dieses Wissen, was ich für diese Vermerke mache, die ich brauche, das muss ich auch erst mal aus verschiedenen Dokumenten mir vielleicht zusammensuchen. Ich muss gucken, wer muss beteiligt werden? Das sind alles so kleine Anwendungsfälle, in denen generative KI mich gut unterstützen kann. Das heißt, dieses Potenzial ist im öffentlichen Sektor unglaublich groß und deswegen, ja, wäre es schade, wenn dieses Potenzial dann nicht auch genützt würde, denn der öffentliche Sektor steht ja gerade aus verschiedenen Richtungen unter Druck. Unter anderem, dass viele Mitarbeitende kurz vor der Rente stehen, also Mitarbeitende auch wegfallen. Das ist einfach auch 'n es einfach auch 'n großes Arbeitsaufkommen, gerade in speziellen Bereichen, gibt, wo dann wirklich die Bearbeitungszeiten teilweise sehr lang sind, weil die Mitarbeitenden hier überlastet sind. Und deshalb ist es sinnvoll, da generative KI einzusetzen. Und wenn man Kompetenzen dabei direkt mitdenkt, wenn ich eine Lösung für generative KI einführe, dass ich die Mitarbeitenden und deren Kompetenzen und Schulungen direkt mitdenke, die Mitarbeitenden mitnehme, dann schaffe ich auf Seiten der Mitarbeitenden einfach auch diese Sicherheit, dass sie das anwenden dürfen und wie und dass sie es auch können. Und das ist was ganz anderes als das, was wir am Anfang diskutiert haben. Ich sag einfach mal, hier ist eine Lösung und guckt guckt doch einfach mal, was ihr damit anfangen könnt. Ja. Das kann das kann zum Teil auch sinnvoll sein. Man schmeißt sone Lösung einfach mal in eine Organisation rein und sagt, probiert doch mal aus und und guckt mal, wo's nützlich sein kann und was passiert damit. Dann gibt's vielleicht einige, die darauf tatsächlich auch anspringen und genau, dann kann kann das vielleicht Probleme verursachen, wenn Unternehmensinterner hinterher in ja in irgendwelchen irgendwelchen öffentlichen Servern dann landen und auf der anderen Seite hat man natürlich die Mitarbeitenden, die dann Angst haben, was falsch zu machen und dann gar nicht damit damit arbeiten. Und dem kann man entgegenwirken, indem man einfach ganz feste Guidelines quasi schafft und eben son Kompetenz Framework mitdenkt und entwickelt und dadurch den Mitarbeitenden einfach eine Hilfestellung und Sicherheit an die Hand gibt. Wobei, was ich sagen wollte, so kleine Experimentierräume auch total sinnvoll sein können, einfach mal zu gucken, jetzt hab ich eine Lösung, aber vielleicht fällt mir ja dann ein, ach, bei meiner täglichen Arbeit in dem und dem Bereich könnte sowas vielleicht auch ganz sinnvoll sein, ne? Und und kann ich das mal ausprobieren und und wie kann ich das dann gestalten? Aber erst mal Sicherheit zu schaffen, nicht nur für die Mitarbeitenden, auch für das Unternehmen, dass ich da nicht in datenschutzrechtlich oder in anderer Hinsicht in irgendwelche Schwierigkeiten hineinlaufe. Ja, also son Rausholen aus der Grauzone. Aber es ist schön, dass Du auch noch mal gesagt hast, wo wirklich die Chancen liegen, weil wir ja jetzt sehr gekommen sind von den Risiken, auch von den juristischen regulatorischen Risiken und es gibt aber eben auch gewaltige Chancen. Welche Einsatzfelder kann man denn da unterscheiden? Also ihr nennt ja in dem Kompetenz Framework 3 Stück, Textgenerierung und Kommunikation ist 1 davon, dann Wissensmanagement und Informationserschließung und Interaktion mit Bürger*innen und Fallbearbeitung. Könntet ihr das noch mal aufschlüsseln, dass man sich auch wirklich was drunter vorstellen kann? Also was für Anwendungen sind denn da denkbar? Oder sind vielleicht auch existieren schon, ne? Es gibt ja auch schon Dinge. Genau, also bei der Informations, also wie Nicole vorhin schon gesagt hat, das geht eigentlich grundsätzlich oder son bisschen macht der der der Anwendungsfalltext in der Verwaltung natürlich aktuell am meisten Sinn, weil das einfach die größte Menge an Daten sind, die in Verwaltungen verwendet werden. Wie Du grade gesagt hast, zur Informationserschließung und fürs Wissensmanagement gibt's eben die Möglichkeit, aus Dokumenten, die erst mal als Textdokument per se, so dann spricht da von unstrukturierten Daten, die erst mal unstrukturiert sind, quasi strukturierte Daten rauszuziehen. Also gewisse Informationen, die in einem Fließtext, sag ich mal, beispielsweise vorhanden sind mithilfe von generativen KI Modellen, diese Informationen zu extrahieren und dann in weitere Prozess oder für weitere Entscheidungs- oder Prozessschritte verfügbar zu machen. Das ist quasi die Information so. Ist da son Beispiel dafür? Noch son bisschen theoretisch. Also ich glaube, gibt's nicht in Berlin irgendwie was, was dann aus den parlamentarischen Anfragen Genau, das wär Modul für parlamentarische Anfragen gibt's in Berlin, ne? Genau, das ist sozusagen sone Mischung zwischen Chatbot und Informationserschließung. Öffentlich verfügbares Beispiel sogar, da kann man als Bürger, Bürgerin in Berlin einfach mal schauen, was die in in Berlin, Moment, ich muss mal ganz kurz gucken, das geht quasi Parlava dieses, genau. Und da geht's vor allem die Hauptausschussvorgänge der Wahlperiode. Also quasi im Prinzip geht's geht's darum, als Bürgerin in Berlin mal zu gucken, was mein Abgeordnetenhaus so entschieden hat. Und dafür wurde 'n Chatbot entwickelt, der dann auf die jeweiligen Ausschussvorgänge dieser Wahlperiode zugreifen kann und dann die Fragen der Bürgerinnen, der Bürger, zum Beispiel, was wurde in Sachen Wohnraum oder in Sachen Parkplätze. Parkplätze oder was auch immer So, ja. Genau von Berlin beschlossen. Und dann antwortet der Chatbot auf Basis dieser Daten. Das heißt, er anders als jetzt vielleicht andere öffentliche verfügbare Chatbots, die nicht auf bestimmte Daten trainiert sind, nutzt er nur die Informationen, die er aus diesen Dokumenten ziehen kann. Okay. Man spricht da von sogenannten Chatbots, also. Das heißt, die ziehen wirklich die Informationen, die sie dann für ihre Antworten nutzen, nur aus einem bestimmten Set an an an Dokumenten und Informationen. Ich erspare mir das dann eben als Bürgerin, mich durch die ganzen Protokolle zu Wühlen von sämtlichen Ausschusssitzungen und so weiter Genau, krieg. Der erschließt es für mich, ne? Genau und krieg's quasi son bisschen strukturierter aufbereitet, genau. Aber das, was halt wichtig zu wissen ist, ist, dass generative KI oder die Technologie, die hinter generativer KI steckt, auch über Chatbots, das ist so das klassische Beispiel, das einem immer gleich einfällt, aber es geht auch über Chatbots oder kann auch über Chatbots hinausgehen. Und das war das, was ich vorhin meinte. Also quasi generative KI kann auch helfen, eben trotzdem beispielsweise eine Tabelle aus 'nem Text zu machen, ne. Das war das, was ich vorhin meinte. Und das ist das ist das, was in Verwaltungen und in in Verwaltungsprozessen einfach auch sehr, sehr viel Arbeitserleichterung schaffen. Ja. Okay. Also sowas wie, gut, ich hab's jetzt mehr 'n literarisches Beispiel, aber man könnte sagen, machen wir mal eine Tabelle auf der Suche nach der verlorenen Zeit. Wie oft kommt das Wort Zeit vor und wie ist der Anteil von weiblichen und männlichen Protagonisten? So was könnte man machen, ne? Ja oder deutlich auch komplexer, also dadurch, dass die Sprachmodelle ja etwas höheres etwas höheres Sprachverständnis haben oder ein höheres Konzeptverständnis als jetzt klassisches, einfach nur Wörter zählen zum Beispiel Das stimmt, das zu einfach. Kann man quasi auch son bisschen schon mehr Informationen, die man als als Leser als Leserin von 'nem Text quasi durch sich erschließen rausziehen würde, kann man quasi auch schon mithilfe von generativer KI dann rausziehen. Ja. Genau. Also wir haben jetzt gesprochen über Dinge, die es schon gibt. Mhm. Was könntet ihr euch denn für zukünftige Anwendungsfelder vorstellen, die ihr euch eben vorstellen könnt, weil ihr euch mit dem Thema intensiv befasst habt, aber die sich so jemand in der Behörde, für den ist es vielleicht noch total utopisch, dass so was jemals klappen könnte. Ja, also das ist, da wird's natürlich dann auch schnell kritisch und auch so, dass man sich als Gesellschaft generell überlegen muss, was wollen wir eigentlich von unserem Staat? Ja, weil nicht als was machbar ist, muss ja auch Genau, genau, weil also da ist grade zum Beispiel die große Diskussion darum, wie inwiefern sollten immer Mitarbeiter, Mitarbeiterinnen der Behörde sozusagen den letzten den die letzte Entscheidung tragen, letztendlich die Entscheidung. Man man spricht davon Human oversite, also quasi menschliche Aufsicht in in solchen KI Prozessen weiterhin behalten. Aber wenn man das jetzt mal auf der beiseitelässt und sagt, es gäbe die Möglichkeit, möglichst fehlerfrei oder möglichst so, dass es möglichst eine geringe Fehlerquote hat, die Prozesse so weitgehend zu automatisieren, dann könnte man ganz utopisch gesprochen davon ausgehen, dass der Großteil der Behördeninteraktionen, die Bürgerinnen haben, theoretisch mithilfe von Chatbots automatisiert werden können, weil es geht größtenteils, wie Nicole gesagt hat, Text oder so Informationsaustausch und da kann eben generative KI ziemlich viel. Genau, also Text und Daten und wir haben ja auch in dem in der Papier haben wir das auch noch mal ganz klar gemacht, dass wir uns generative KI Systeme angucken, die sone Assistenzfunktion haben oder wo es eine Teilautomatisierung geht. Das heißt, da sind auch immer noch mitarbeitende Menschen beteiligt, das nennt man dann Human in the Loop. Also in diesem ganzen Prozess werden zwar Dinge vielleicht vorbereitet, aufbereitet, Texte natürlich können das auch Daten sein, also tatsächlich Zahlen, aber letztlich sind dann sind dann doch immer Mitarbeitende beteiligt und die treffen die Entscheidung, sind dann doch immer Mitarbeitende beteiligt und die treffen die Entscheidung. Aber klar, gerade wenn's wenn's Prozesse geht, wo beispielsweise Bürgerinnen und Bürger einen Anspruch haben, wo sie und wenn man dann noch weiterdenkt, das ist ja schon fast utopisch, wenn wir dann die Registermodernisierung geschafft haben, tatsächlich die Register verknüpft sind und man darauf auch zugreifen kann, dann könnte man sich ja schon denken, keine Ahnung, Elterngeld, dass ich da vielleicht ja doch, muss ich noch sagen, wie lange möchte ich in Elternzeit gehen, aber alles andere, was habe ich denn überhaupt für Ansprüche und was habe ich denn überhaupt verdient, das könnte ja dann alles automatisch passieren und dann könnte ich ja auch von generativer KI einen netten formulierten Bescheid erhalten, dass ich dann 'n Anspruch auf Elterngeld habe. Ja, das hat mir auch eine eigene Folge dazu, wollte ich an der Stelle Genau. Ergänzen zur Automatisierung von Verwaltungsverfahren und in Österreich wird es schon gemacht, also bei dem Kindergeld, glaube ich, Kindergeld ist, genau, die machen das schon. Also soweit denke ich es nicht und wir haben eine ganze Folge dazu, kann man nachhören. Genau. Genau und wenn ich da kurz noch ergänzen darf, Nicole, ich glaub, der große Vorteil von generativer KI versus, sagen wir mal, klassischer Automatisierung mithilfe von beispielsweise Eingabeformularen et cetera, die Bürgerinnen ausfüllen müssen, liegt natürlich darin, dass generative KI natürlich sprachlich mit den Bürgerinnen interagieren kann. Und idealerweise, das da gibt's auch schon Beispiele dafür, dass die generative KI, nachdem wie gut das zugrunde liegende Sprachmodell ist, sich auch sprachlich so anpassen kann, dass es für die Bürgerinnen und Bürger einfacher wird, die Behörden Fachsprache, sag ich mal, zu verstehen und auch dann wirklich da vielleicht zu kommunizieren, was tatsächlich die Bedarfe sind. Und damit auch zu 'ner leichteren Verständigung zwischen, sag ich mal, Behördensprech und Bürgerinnensprech. Also son Thema bei jeder Freiheit, ja. Nicht nur auch Fremdsprache. Auch fremdsprachlich, also auch Übersetzung ist natürlich auch 'n super Anwendungsfall für generative KI und genau, wenn ich den Deutschen vielleicht nicht so mächtig bin, ist das natürlich auch toll, wenn dann dadurch noch mal Hürden abgebaut werden können im Behördenkontakt Und dieses, dass ich natürlich sprachlich damit interagieren kann, ist natürlich auch für die Verwaltungsmitarbeitenden ganz relevant. Also damit umziehen zu können mit diesen Tools, muss ich eben nicht in der Lage sein, zu programmieren, sondern ich kann halt einfach natürlich sprachlich irgendwelche Eingaben machen, Fragen stellen et cetera. Ihr zitiert in eurer Veröffentlichung auch eine Unternehmensbefragung vom Statistischen Bundesamt. Da wird fehlendes Wissen mit 71 Prozent als Topgrund dafür genannt, warum KI in Unternehmen nicht genutzt wird. Das ist jetzt eine Untersuchung, die bezieht sich wie gesagt auf Unternehmen. Wenn ihr jetzt schätzen müsstet, wie ist es denn bei der Verwaltung? Ist da der Prozentsatz für vielen das Wissen ähnlich hoch? Ich glaub ja, das lässt sich auf die Verwaltung übertragen, weil das ist das, was natürlich bei dem, was wir grade, was immer son bisschen durch durchgeklungen ist in dem ganzen Gespräch bis jetzt auch, dass die Verantwortung und das Risiko, das natürlich in der Verwaltung besteht, wenn man solche Systeme einsetzt, über Bürgerbefinden irgendwie zu entscheiden beispielsweise, ist natürlich gegebenenfalls noch mal höher als im Privatsektor, ne. Im Privatsektor geht's quasi auch darum, Datenschutz einzuhalten und so weiter. Aber aber der Rechtsanspruch, dem ein Bürger gegenüber dem Staat hat, ist natürlich 'n ganz anderer und noch mal viel umfänglicher als der, den ein ein Kunde, eine Kundin gegenüber einem Unternehmen hat. Deswegen glaub ich sogar, dass die Zahlen im öffentlichen Sektor vielleicht sogar eher in der Richtung, also eher höher liegen. Ja, weil man auch mehr Wissen braucht sozusagen. Deswegen Weil man mehr Wissen braucht und mehr mehr Unsicherheit hat und mehr sichergehen muss, dass das auch wirklich alles korrekt und nach rechtlichen Vorschriften funktioniert. Und da werden wir wahrscheinlich jetzt dann gleich noch drauf eingehen. Das kommt halt braucht nicht nur Wissen bei den Nutzerinnen, sondern eben auch bei den Techniker Technikerinnen und bei den Entscheiderinnen. Ja. Und ihr habt's ja also Kompetenz Framework genannt und nicht Wissens Framework. Mhm. Also dieser Kompetenzbegriff ist ja mehr, als was man sich jetzt so unmittelbar vorstellt und was man vielleicht in Fortbildungen vermitteln könnte. Es ist eben mehr als Wissen, ne? Genau, also Kompetenz, da orientieren wir uns an der OECD. Da wird eigentlich gesagt, Kompetenz ermöglicht es, eine Aufgabe oder Aktivität in einem spezifischen Kontext erfolgreich zu erledigen. Also es geht quasi einen konkreten Nutzen 1 Kompetenz für eine bestimmte Aufgabe. Und was das aber bedeutet, ist, dass es eben über das Wissen hinausgeht, weil erfolgreich irgendwas bewältigen zu können, brauch ich nicht nur das Wissen, sondern ich muss es auch dieses Wissen auch anwenden können und ich brauch und das ist auch im im Kontext von generativer KI sehr wichtig, das Mindset dahinter, also die Haltung, beispielsweise offen, aber kritisch mit solchen Systemen umgehen zu können. Okay, dann Das heißt, das könnte auch total individuell und charakterabhängig auch sein, oder? Also je nachdem, welcher Mensch da vor einem sitzt, der braucht vielleicht andere Kompetenzfelder, die bei ihm entwickelt werden müssten. Genau, ja, das kann charakterabhängig sein, wobei da würde ich sagen, grade im im im Bereich von Mindset wird's natürlich dann son bisschen auch schwierig dann zu sagen, so inwiefern können wir das tatsächlich beeinflussen? Wir versuchen in unserem Kompetenz Framework Framework sozusagen den Idealzustand, was wir sehen und was wir auch aus der Literatur gefunden haben, was wichtig ist. Aber individuell können natürlich bestimmte Bereiche unter ausgeprägt sein oder über ausgeprägt sein und die muss man dann entsprechend anpassen. Ja, weil ich kann durch die organisationalen Regeln, auch durch die Organisationskultur, kann ich natürlich dieses diesen Mindset auch 'n bisschen beeinflussen. Also beim Mindset geht's ja auch beispielsweise Offenheit, Experimentierfreude. Das kann ich ja auch 'n bisschen vorleben und auch psychologische Sicherheit schaffen beispielsweise, damit meine Mitarbeitenden dann auch in der Lage sind, vielleicht diese Experimentierfreude auch auszuleben. Auf der anderen Seite kann ich durch die Organisationskultur auch eher dazu beitragen, dass eben vielleicht keine so große Offenheit herrscht. Also ich kann Es ist natürlich schon auch definitiv individuell beeinflusst, aber durch die organisationalen Regeln und die Organisationskultur, also wie's dann gelebt wird, kann man das durchaus beeinflussen. Ja, okay. Jetzt ist ja Kompetenzerwerb nichts Neues, ne? Wir leben in 1 Welt des lebenslangen Lernens. Mitarbeitende haben vielleicht gerade gelernt, wie man Dinge in die Cloud hochlädt, wie man aus der Cloud arbeitet oder irgendwas. Aber was ist denn grundsätzlich anders an der Einführung der Nutzung von generativer KI im Vergleich zur Einführung, sagen wir mal, jetzt einen neuen Softwarelösung? Es ist ja schon 'n ganz anderer Ansatz, oder? Ja, generative KI auf Basis von großen Sprachmodellen, die wir sprechen da von offenen Systemen oder die eine offenen Nutzung zulassen, ne, also wo ich quasi theoretisch alles damit machen könnte. Da ist natürlich die nötigen Kompetenzen dafür, dann auch nur diese Systeme dann oder diese Systeme dann entsprechend anzuwenden, deutlich höher als, sag ich mal, in 'ner Software, die mir nur eine Eingabe von bestimmten Informationen ermöglicht und diese auch nur auf eine bestimmte Art verarbeitet. Mhm. Diese Mensch Maschine Interaktion ist auch irgendwie anders, ne? Ich finde, es fühlt sich anders an, dass man irgendwie nicht so klar ist, okay, bist Du jetzt der Experte, bin ich der Experte? Also irgendwie fühlt sich's 'n bisschen gleichberechtigter an als bei so Sachen, die so eindeutig einfach Werkzeuge zur Arbeit sind. Genau, also je nachdem, wie frei und offen ich sie nutzen kann, werden dadurch natürlich auch höhere Anforderungen daran gestellt, was ich dann mit den Ergebnissen mache. Also dass ich auch in der Lage bin, diesen Output, den ich dann da habe, Zusammenfassung, Empfehlungen, Klassifizierung, Sonstiges, auch kritisch bewerten zu können und mir auch bewusst zu sein, ja, also auf den ersten Blick kann diese Lösung sehr, sehr viel, aber es gibt halt auch gewisse Grenzen im Umgang mit generativer KI, die mir da bewusst sein müssen. Genau, ich kann das 'n bisschen eingrenzen durch durch solche Rex, wie Max eben schon gesagt hatte, aber dass zum Beispiel es auch sein kann, dass da irgendwas halluziniert wird, was vielleicht sich eigentlich nicht so ergeben hat aus aus den Informationen, die zugrunde lagen. Also dass ich auch in der Lage bin, eben, dass ich die zugrunde lagen. Also dass ich auch in der Lage bin, eben diesen Output damit verantwortungsvoll umzugehen und den auch Und die Qualität einschätzen zu können und auch zu wissen, wie kann ich damit umgehen? Wo muss ich vielleicht genau hingucken und inwieweit kann mir das tatsächlich weiterhelfen? Also, das ist schon eine höhere Anforderung, als wenn ich jetzt ein ein Programm nutze. Ja und muss vielleicht auch anders vermittelt werden dann letztendlich ins Unternehmen, also in die Behörde rein. Es muss anders vermittelt werden und das muss auch, also darin liegt dann sozusagen die Kehrseite dieser natürlich sprachlichen Interaktion mit solchen Systemen, weil das natürlich erst mal überzeugend klingt oder überzeugend klingen kann, was da rauskommt. Und das heißt, dass die Mitarbeiterinnen dann nicht der Versuchung verfallen, das dann einfach so direkt zu übernehmen und zu sagen, ja, das wird schon passen, die Maschine hat das so gesagt, sondern dass es eben auch 'n Bewusstsein dafür gibt, wie kommt denn die Maschine überhaupt zu dem Ergebnis und wie hat vielleicht auch das, was ich vorher mit der Maschine besprochen hab in dem gleichen Chat beispielsweise, Einfluss darauf eventuell und hab ich vielleicht die Maschine durch meine Eingaben auch in eine bestimmte Richtung gelenkt oder muss ich sie in eine bestimmte Richtung lenken? Man spricht da dann, es gibt da auch so schon Ansätze, die dann quasi von Metathinking sprechen, also nicht mehr quasi von vom ganz konkreten am Anwendungsfall oder an an der konkreten Fragestellung, sondern eigentlich mehr, wie gehe ich sone Fragestellung ganz generell eigentlich an und wie wie versuche ich in sonem Prozess, vielleicht mit 'ner generativen KI, auf eine Lösung zu kommen? Also es wird quasi die Kompetenzen gehen son Stück weit auf eine höhere Ebene vielleicht sogar. Ja, okay. Klingt anspruchsvoll. Inwieweit kann denn dieses Kompetenz Framework dabei helfen? Also als ihr das erarbeitet habt, was habt ihr euch da vorgestellt? Für wen kann das hilfreich sein? Wie kann man's nutzen? Es richtet sich vor allem an die Personen, die damit befasst sind, zu entscheiden, ob und wie KI eingesetzt wird in der Organisation und an die Personen, die eben mit dem Kompetenzaufbau in der Organisation befasst sind, nämlich genau in diesem Zuge dann auch zu überlegen, was für eine Lösung haben wir denn hier? Genau, was hat die beispielsweise für eine Risikoklasse? Was hat die für einen Anwendungsfall? Was soll damit überhaupt gemacht werden können, was vielleicht auch gerade nicht? Und was bedeutet das dann auch im gleichen Schritt für die Kompetenzen für die Mitarbeitenden der Organisation? Also es soll sone Orientierung geben, sone Hilfestellung, dass einfach da sich einen Überblick zu verschaffen und zu überlegen, wie wollen wir es machen? Was braucht es dafür? Genau, es ist quasi Es geht 'n ganzheitlichen Blick auf dieses Thema. Wenn wir generative KI in der Verwaltung einsetzen wollen, haben wir nämlich eigentlich 2 Stellschrauben, wenn man so sagen will, den effektiven und sicheren Einsatz sicherzustellen. Einerseits die Gestaltung des Systems und andererseits die Anwendung 1 Systems. Und bei der Gestaltung des Systems geht's dann darum, die Entscheiderinnen und die Technikerinnen, die über solche Systeme entscheiden, über den Einsatz entscheiden und den auch dann bereitstellen oder die Systeme implementieren, dass die eben über die ganzen Grenzen, Möglichkeiten Bescheid wissen, wie ich solche Systeme am besten implementieren kann. Und auf der Nutzung des Systems geht's natürlich die Nutzer und die Nutzerinnen, die dann Die auch Bürger*innen sein können am Die auch Bürger*innen sein können, wobei wir da son bisschen mit unserem Kompetenz Framework natürlich uns primär auf die gehöreninternen Mitarbeiterinnen, beispielsweise Fachexpertin, Fachbearbeiterinnen et cetera fokussieren, weil die Bürgerinnen und Bürger, die werden bestimmt auch die die generative KI Kompetenzen sind, auf der Seite auch zu schulen, aber das geht son bisschen über das hinaus, was eine Behörde intern leisten kann, natürlich. Okay. Das noch mal deutlich zu sagen, es muss nicht in 1 Behörde jeder alles können. Also es müssen nicht alle Beamtinnen im gleichen Maß zur KI Experten werden. Genau, einfach nur Kompetenzen zu Schulen ganz generell für alle in 1 Organisation macht wenig Sinn, sondern die Kompetenzschulung muss immer mit 1 konkreten Gen KI Lösung einhergehen. Also wir wissen, wir haben eine Anwendung und dann an der Anwendung vermitteln wir An der Anwendung vermitteln, genau. Und da haben wir wir unterscheiden auch noch mal vom über Also es gibt Basiskompetenzen, da sagen wir, okay, das ist das sind quasi Grundverständnis zu generativer KI und Datenverarbeitung und so weiter. Das ist gut, wenn das alle wissen, auch das, was wir anfangs besprochen haben, auch die Potenziale zu sehen in der Organisation, ne. Dafür braucht's gewisse Basiskompetenzen. Die haben wir auch aufgeführt in unserem Framework, aber alles, was über diese Basiskompetenzen hinausgeht, sagen wir, macht nur Sinn, wenn man's mit Blick auf eine spezifische generative KI Lösung schult. Also wenn ich quasi eine Idee hab, wie soll diese wie soll diese Lösung aussehen ungefähr und von wem soll sie genutzt werden? Erst dann macht's Sinn quasi, gezielt zu schulen, weil dann weiß ich, was fürn Freiheitsgrad, also wie offen ist ist das System gestaltet? Was kann der Nutzer, die Nutzerin mit dem System machen? Und weiß auch das Risiko, das quasi in diesem Anwendungskontext bestehen kann. Mhm. Okay. Kannst Du noch einmal die Basiskenntnisse so ausführen kurz? Also ich nehm an, Datenschutz gehört da dazu, Wissen und Barrierefreiheit, solche Sachen, ne, sind da drin. Also, genau, es geht primär geht's darum, quasi erst mal digitale Bedienkompetenz, also sich überhaupt mit digitalen Anwendungen zurechtzufinden. Datenkompetenz sind erst mal die ganz grundlegenden Sachen, die unabhängig von generativer KI sind und dann die generativen, KI bezogenen Kompetenzen. Da geht's darum, eben zu wissen, was wofür kann ich generative KI einsetzen und wofür gegebenenfalls nicht? Also von Texterstellung, Bildgenerierung, Übersetzungen, Transkriptionen und so weiter und das Wissen über die Funktionsweise. Also wie wird das eigentlich gemacht? Wie funktioniert son generatives KI System ganz generell? Also jetzt nicht im Detail, sondern einfach nur 'n Grundverständnis davon zu haben, dass der Output eben auf Basis statistischer Kenntnisse sozusagen aus gewissen Trainingsdaten Ja. Erzeugt wird. Und wenn Du jetzt, mir leuchtet das total ein, dass es Sinn macht, das am praktischen Beispiel dann zu entwickeln, die einzelnen Kompetenzen, aber ist es nicht auch 'n Stück weit sone Henne Ei Geschichte, dass Leute, die ja gar nicht wissen, so richtig, was man damit machen kann, sich dann Sachen ausdenken müssen, mit denen man dann die Kompetenzen schult? Also weißt Du, was ich meine? Also wie kommt man überhaupt die Anwendungen, ne, wenn jetzt Genau, genau, genau. Kompetenzen noch nicht so flächendeckend da sind? Genau, also deswegen sagen wir ja, diese Basiskompetenzen sind sollen genau diesen diesen diesen Problemen vorbeugen, dass wir quasi sagen, eine dieses gewisse Grundverständnis muss da sein und dann gehen wir quasi von den Basiskompetenzen, die idealerweise möglichst breit geschult werden, eben die Potenziale auch in der Organisation aufzudecken. Mhm. Wenn's dann darüber hinausgeht, geht's dann quasi in die Entscheiderinnenkompetenzen, die dann konkreter wissen, okay, was was sind jetzt beispielsweise die strategischen Voraussetzungen, die Risiken, betriebswirtschaftlichen Gesichtspunkte und so weiter, um's dann auch konkret in Projekten umsetzen zu können. Die Techniker, die dann die technische Seite betreuen und zum Schluss dann auch die Nutzerinnen, die dann quasi diese Systeme anwenden. Und jetzt mal also von der Idee dieses Kompetenz Frameworks zurück in die Praxis. Also diese Basiskompetenzen, wo ihr sagt, das ist so der erste Schritt und die Grundlage, wie weit ist das denn? Also ist da schon der Lernprozess in Gang gekommen in den Behörden? Teilweise ja, weil in den Basiskompetenzen stecken natürlich auch Digitalkompetenzen ganz allgemein drin und die werden auch schon vermittelt. Inwiefern generative KI Kompetenzen, also spezifisch auf generative KI und beispielsweise die Nutzungsmöglichkeiten und die Grenzen und so weiter, da ist es vermutlich, wir haben da keine belastbaren Daten, aber vermutlich sehr unterschiedlich. Da gibt's einige Behörden, die da sehr weit sind, die ja auch gewisse Systeme auch schon einsetzen und andere Behörden, die da eben noch ganz am Anfang stehen. Und Max hat es ja gesagt, also Behörden, die solche Systeme schon einsetzen, müssen eigentlich auch schon weiter vorne sein, was die Kompetenzen angeht, weil die KI Verordnung eben genau auch das festlegt. Also Organisationen, die generative KI einsetzen, müssen auch dafür sorgen, dass die Mitarbeitenden über den entsprechenden Kompetenzbedarf verfügen. Also das ist tatsächlich in der KI Verordnung auch festgelegt. Und vielleicht, wenn ich auch noch eine Sache kurz ergänzen darf bei dem Thema Schulungen, weil was häufig vorkommt, ist natürlich, dass 'n risikobasierter Schulungsansatz gefahren wird, wo quasi auf die Datenschutz und sonstigen Risiken aufmerksam gemacht wird. Und das ist alles auch gut so und auch wichtig, aber man sollte nicht vergessen, eben auch die Chancen auch entsprechend zu schulen und die Mitarbeiterinnen auch quasi in den die Möglichkeiten von diesen Technologien auch aufzuzeigen und die die positiven Anwendungsfälle auch entsprechend zu schulen. Also nicht nur quasi 'n risikobasierter Ansatz, sondern auch den bisschen mehr ausbalancieren mit 'nem eher chancenbasierten Ansatz. Ja. Und vielleicht auch geht's Raum, oder? Also ich erinnere mich, als ich das erste Mal versucht hab, zum Beispiel eine Präsentation zu prompten und es hat definitiv viel, viel länger gedauert, als wenn ich das selber gemacht hätte. Also es geht ja auch 'n bisschen dieses, worüber wir hier oft sprechen, so Fehlerfreundlichkeit, Zeit, Raum, ne, das ist ja auch wichtig, wahrscheinlich. Genau, ausprobieren, experimentieren, ja. Ja, okay. Wir haben jetzt grad über die verschiedenen Rollen gesprochen, also dass eben nicht jeder alles wissen muss und dass es gut ist, am konkreten Anwendungsfall zu arbeiten. Jetzt gibt's ja auch verschiedene Systeme und die bringen auch verschiedene Freiheitsgrade mit sich. Max, kannst Du das noch mal erklären? Was ist überhaupt son Freiheitsgrad und warum ist das wichtig, eben auf das System auch noch mal zu gucken, weil das Auswirkungen auf die Kompetenzen hat? Genau, 'n Freiheitsgrad, den Begriff verwenden wir so, dass wir damit versuchen zum Reisen, wie viel Freiheit ein System den Nutzenden gibt in der Interaktion. Also beispielsweise kann ich frei wählen, was ich diesem System an Informationen reingebe? Kann ich die Funktion frei wählen? Und dann kann man quasi grundsätzlich 3 Systeme, man kann 4 unterscheiden, aber wir machen die 3 Haupt 3 Hauptarten. Einmal quasi eine vorgegebene Nutzung, wo ich quasi weder Input noch Funktion frei wählen kann, eine geführte Nutzung, wo ich den Input zwar frei wählen kann, aber das System beispielsweise eine Übersetzung, die immer einfach nur Deutsch und Englisch übersetzt, da kann ich zwar den Input, den Text, den ich reingebe, immer anders auswählen, aber im Prinzip die Funktion ist vorgegeben. Und dann letztendlich die offenen Nutzung, das sind quasi klassische, was wir jetzt heute unter Chatbots, also große Sprach unter großen Chatbots, die auf großen Sprachmodellen basieren, verstehen. Da kann ich sowohl frei wählen, was ich dem System an Informationen reingebe, als auch welche, was ich mit diesen Informationen machen will, ne, und und welche welche Funktion ich quasi von dem System haben möchte. Und je nachdem, wie dieser Freiheitsgrad ausgestaltet ist, also ob er quasi den Nutzerinnen eine höhere Freiheit gibt bei 'ner offenen Nutzung oder eine ganz geringe Freiheit bei 'ner vorgegebenen oder sehr geführten Nutzung oder geführten Nutzung, verschieben sich die Kompetenzanforderungen. Also 'n 'n Nutzer muss natürlich mehr Kompetenzen haben bei Systemen, die komplett offen gestaltet sind und weniger, wenn diese Systeme eine vorgegebene oder eine geführte Nutzung haben. In dem Fall ist es aber wichtig, dass dieses System die die die die Kompetenzen, die dann nicht bei den Nutzerinnen liegen müssen zwangsläufig, die müssen ja irgendwo anders liegen, weil das System muss ja trotzdem sozusagen wissen, was es was es was es tun darf, was es tun kann und so weiter und was es tun soll. Und die Kompetenzen, die dafür nötig sind, das zu entscheiden, müssen dann eben nicht bei den Nutzerinnen liegen, sondern bei den Technikerinnen und bei den Entscheiderinnen. Ja, bei den beiden Ebenen drüber sozusagen, ne, würde man sagen Genau. Oder die, die vorherkommen. Wie vorher, genau. Ja. Genau. Okay. Das Also bei der das da das hatte ich ja vorhin auch schon, glaub ich, versucht, so kurz anzureißen bei der Gestaltung des Systems, ne. Also diese 2 Stellschrauben, einmal Gestaltung des System, einmal Nutzung des Systems. Und wenn ich die Kompetenzen eben bei der Nutzung des Systems möglichst gering halten will, brauche ich entsprechend höhere Kompetenzen bei der Gestaltung des Systems. Genau und was da noch einen Einfluss auf den jeweiligen Kompetenzbedarf hat, ist die Risikoklasse. Die haben wir eben auch einmal ganz kurz angesprochen, weil je höher die entsprechende Risikoklasse, desto größer sind auch die Anforderungen, die sich aus der europäischen KI Verordnung ergeben, beispielsweise in Bezug auf Haftung oder auch auf menschlicher Aufsicht und das heißt, diese systemspezifischen Kompetenzen, das sind dann Kompetenzen im Bereich Ethik, Recht und Standards, also Rechtsvorschriften, technische Normen, Datenschutz, aber beispielsweise auch Nachhaltigkeit und auch die Fachkompetenz. Da steigen die Anforderungen, je höher die Risikoklasse und das betrifft dann die systemspezifischen Komponenten, also die, die ich gerade genannt habe, für die jeweiligen Rollen, also für Nutzerinnen, Entscheiderinnen und Technikerinnen. Ja und dafür ist eben das Kompetenz Framework sehr nützlich, weil man dann einfach mal diese ganzen Variablen so aufgeschlüsselt sieht, ne? Was sind alles Einflussfaktoren auf welche Kompetenzen brauche ich? Genau, man weiß einfach, was muss ich im Blick behalten? Was muss ich mir bewusst machen, wenn ich eben überlege generativer KI einzuführen? Wir sind jetzt schon ziemlich am Ende der Folge und ich wollte dich aber noch mal ganz konkret fragen. Also für alle Leute, die jetzt Lust haben, loszulegen mit diesem Kompetenz Framework und ansetzen wollen, da wo wir gesagt haben, dass man eben ansetzen sollte bei den Basiskompetenzen. Wie bringt man das denn in Gang? Na, das Allerwichtigste beim In Gangbringen ist, dass die Schwelle zum In Gangbringen möglichst niedrig ist. Das bedeutet, Angebote schaffen in der Organisation, sich sehr einfach mit diesen mit dem mit mit dieser Technologie auseinanderzusetzen. Also entweder durch beispielsweise eine Kaffeepause, durch 'n ein Mittagessen, wo diese Systeme eben nebenbei mal erklärt werden und die die Möglichkeiten und und Risiken bei der Nutzung aufgezeigt werden. Also das heißt, möglichst möglichst niedrigschwellig Also nicht gleich son fünftägiges Seminar ansetzen, sondern Genau, nicht gleich Nein, klar. Mit dem mit dem mit der Kanone auch Spatzen schießen, sondern da geht's erst mal darum, wie der Name sagt, die ganz grundlegenden Basis möglichst breit zu verankern. Und natürlich ist es da dann die Frage, inwiefern kann man so was verpflichtend machen? Idealerweise wär's, dass solche Veranstaltungen verpflichtend sind, eben sicherzustellen, dass möglichst alle und nicht nur die, die die Lust haben oder die die sich dafür interessieren bei solchen Veranstaltungen dabei sind, also quasi auch remote. Also es gibt ja auch ganz viele wunderbare Onlinematerialien schon Ja, also man muss nicht das Rad neu erfinden. Es gibt Dinge, die sind schon da, ne? Könnt ihr da irgendwas empfehlen? Genau, also es geht ja erst mal darum, bei den Basiskompetenzen auch son bisschen die Denkräume aufzumachen und erst mal den Blick son bisschen zu weiten dafür, was was ist auch generative KI, nicht nur, aber auch das und überhaupt, wo könnte ich die vielleicht überhaupt in meiner Organisation, in meiner alltäglichen Arbeit einsetzen und das eben möglichst niedrigschwellig und möglichst nutzer*innenzentriert zu gestalten, also vielleicht auch so verschiedene Learning Nuggets anzubieten. Max hat da gerade schon 'n paar genannt, die Datenlabore des Bundes machen da schon relativ viel, die haben dann auch Tutorials, die haben irgendwelche Hilfestellungen oder Leitfäden, die man nutzen kann, sich mal einfach, vielleicht auch nur in 5 Minuten, einfach son bisschen mal damit auseinanderzusetzen und da son bisschen reinzuarbeiten. Und wer schon relativ viel macht, auch für die gesamte Bundesverwaltung beispielsweise, ist das BMZ, also die haben Webinare, wo es verschiedene Datenthemen geht. KI und auch generative KI spielt dann natürlich auch eine Rolle und die steht allen Mitarbeitenden in der Bundesverwaltung stehen die offen und die werden hinterher auch beispielsweise über Youtube bereitgestellt, das heißt auch von anderen Verwaltungsebenen, Länder oder Kommunen oder auch interessierte Bürger*innen können sich diese Tutorials angucken und sich 'n bisschen aufschlauen zu generativer KI. Mehr Input, mehr Kompetenz zu diesem Thema gibt's online unter öfid Punkt d e mit o e geschrieben. Und nächsten Monat gibt's natürlich wieder eine neue Folge von We Start digital, dann wieder mit meinem Kollegen Philipp 1. Alle unsere früheren Podcasts, zum Beispiel auch den zum Thema Automatisierung des Verwaltungsverfahrens findet ihr auf den gängigen Podcastplattformen, auf Apple Podcasts, auf Spotify und auf vielen weiteren Portalen. Da könnt ihr digital auch abonnieren. Ich bin Franziska Walser, ich danke euch fürs Zuhören. 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"end": 2491.73, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "Mal.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.6865741 } ], "summaries": null, "paragraphs": { "transcript": "\nSpeaker 0: Schnell ein Gedicht zum Geburtstag des Großonkels schreiben, Mona Lisa in einem Video rappen lassen oder einen Podcast komplett ohne Sprecher*innen und Studio erstellen. Das alles kann generative künstliche Intelligenz, vorausgesetzt natürlich, man weiß wie. Auch im öffentlichen Sektor wird schon mit KI gearbeitet, in Projekten aber auch auf Eigeninitiative, weil einzelne Mitarbeitende frei verfügbare KI Werkzeuge einfach nutzen. Wie diese KI Kompetenz systematisch und flächendeckend in den Organisationen verankert werden kann, darum geht es heute bei. Ich bin Franziska Walser und bin heute digital verbunden mit meinen beiden Co Hosts.\n\nDas sind Maximilian Kubi, wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter am Kompetenzzentrum öffentlicher IT, kurz öFIT, mit dem Schwerpunkt Datenanalyse, KI und digitale Verwaltung. Und ebenfalls zugeschaltet ist Nicole Opiella, Politologin und stellvertretende Leiterin des Kompetenzzentrum Öffentlicher IT. Hallo Nicole, hallo Max.\n\nSpeaker 1: Hallo.\n\nSpeaker 0: Hallo Franziska. So, wir sprechen heute über den Einsatz von KI und die Frage ist ja, wir sind so mittendrin, ne? Ich hab ja grade gesagt, es gibt schon Mitarbeitende, die nutzen das, haben sich das Zeug einfach irgendwie runtergeladen, sich 'n Account gemacht. Kann man das nicht einfach laufen lassen in dem Vertrauen darauf, dass das Arbeit abnimmt und das ist Motivation genug?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das ist eine spannende Frage. Das ist wahrscheinlich auch der Ansatz, den viele jetzt aktuell fahren werden. Und wir argumentieren in unserem Kompetenz Framework, dass es eben nicht einfach möglich ist, die Sachen laufen zu lassen, sondern dass es sinnvoll ist, den effektiven und sicheren Einsatz von generativer KI auch nachhaltig sicherzustellen in der Organisation, eben die Kompetenzen nicht als nices Add on sozusagen am Schluss zu sehen. Wenn was eingeführt ist, machen wir jetzt noch schnell die Kompetenzen dazu und das schlauen die Mitarbeiterinnen auf, sondern das als essenzielle Grundlage dafür zu sehen. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Kannst Du's noch mal 'n bisschen mehr erklären? Also so Worst Case, wenn jetzt da sone wilde Nutzung auf eigene Faust erfolgt? Also was könnte da alles schieflaufen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, Worst Case ist son bisschen das, was einem durch den EU AI Act drohen kann, wenn man quasi die Lösungen, die GenKI Lösungen nicht so einsetzt, dass sie quasi regulatorischen Maßgaben entsprechen. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und beispielsweise auch Klassen, ja, ne. Da wird unterteilt Es\n\nSpeaker 1: gibt Risikoklassen, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nutze das zum Beispiel für medizinische Zwecke. Ich nutz das, den Weg nach Hause finden und das sind unterschiedliche Risikoklassen, ne.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Und dann gibt's aber auch noch die die Problematik, dass quasi welche Daten ich damit verwende, jetzt nicht zwangsläufig nur im EU AI Act, sondern auch GDPR, wie heißt das auf Deutsch? Datenschutz Grundverordnung. Datenschutz Grundverordnung heißt das auf Deutsch, genau. Dass das da auch noch festgelegt ist.\n\nDas heißt, wenn Mitarbeiter jetzt plötzlich anfangen, irgendwelche persönlichen Daten in, ich sag's jetzt mal, 'n Chatbot einzugeben, dann wird's auch problematisch. Das heißt, auf jeden Fall ein gewisses Grundverständnis ist auf jeden Fall nötig und eine gewisse Sensibilisierung. Aber wir argumentieren eben, dass es darüber auch hinausgehen muss in der Organisation.\n\nSpeaker 0: Warum gibt's jetzt dieses Kompetenz Framework, was ihr entwickelt habt, warum muss sich der öffentliche Sektor wirklich spezifisch zu generativer KI positionieren?\n\nSpeaker 1: Der öffentliche Sektor hat einfach durch seine Aufgaben und durch seine Anwendungsfelder, in denen generative KI zum Einsatz kommen kann, besondere Herausforderungen, weil eben schutzbedürftige Daten verwendet werden oder Entscheidungen getroffen werden, bei denen eben zum Beispiel der EU AI Act oder die Datenschutzgrundverordnung zum Tragen kommen und eben sichergestellt werden muss, dass diese Systeme richtig eingesetzt werden und auf der anderen Seite die Systeme auch entsprechend gestaltet werden, dass sie eben möglichst ausschließen, dass sie nicht konform oder dass sie quasi schadensvoll eingesetzt werden, sozusagen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Generative KI hat einfach 'n ganz großes Potenzial für den öffentlichen Sektor. Da geht es ja darum, dass ich Inhalte generieren kann, also beispielsweise auch Texte, aber natürlich auch Audio-, Videobilder oder Coachnipsel, aber gerade Text ist ja 'n ganz wesentlicher Anwendungsfall für die öffentliche Verwaltung. Das ist sehr textlastig, da müssen Anträge durchgegeben werden. Da wird auch sehr viel an Text produziert, Entscheidungsvorlagen, Beschlüsse, Bescheide werden erstellt. Es muss auch dieses Wissen, was ich für diese Vermerke mache, die ich brauche, das muss ich auch erst mal aus verschiedenen Dokumenten mir vielleicht zusammensuchen.\n\nIch muss gucken, wer muss beteiligt werden? Das sind alles so kleine Anwendungsfälle, in denen generative KI mich gut unterstützen kann. Das heißt, dieses Potenzial ist im öffentlichen Sektor unglaublich groß und deswegen, ja, wäre es schade, wenn dieses Potenzial dann nicht auch genützt würde, denn der öffentliche Sektor steht ja gerade aus verschiedenen Richtungen unter Druck. Unter anderem, dass viele Mitarbeitende kurz vor der Rente stehen, also Mitarbeitende auch wegfallen. Das ist einfach auch 'n es einfach auch 'n großes Arbeitsaufkommen, gerade in speziellen Bereichen, gibt, wo dann wirklich die Bearbeitungszeiten teilweise sehr lang sind, weil die Mitarbeitenden hier überlastet sind.\n\nUnd deshalb ist es sinnvoll, da generative KI einzusetzen. Und wenn man Kompetenzen dabei direkt mitdenkt, wenn ich eine Lösung für generative KI einführe, dass ich die Mitarbeitenden und deren Kompetenzen und Schulungen direkt mitdenke, die Mitarbeitenden mitnehme, dann schaffe ich auf Seiten der Mitarbeitenden einfach auch diese Sicherheit, dass sie das anwenden dürfen und wie und dass sie es auch können. Und das ist was ganz anderes als das, was wir am Anfang diskutiert haben. Ich sag einfach mal, hier ist eine Lösung und guckt guckt doch einfach mal, was ihr damit anfangen könnt. Ja.\n\nDas kann das kann zum Teil auch sinnvoll sein. Man schmeißt sone Lösung einfach mal in eine Organisation rein und sagt, probiert doch mal aus und und guckt mal, wo's nützlich sein kann und was passiert damit. Dann gibt's vielleicht einige, die darauf tatsächlich auch anspringen und genau, dann kann kann das vielleicht Probleme verursachen, wenn Unternehmensinterner hinterher in ja in irgendwelchen irgendwelchen öffentlichen Servern dann landen und auf der anderen Seite hat man natürlich die Mitarbeitenden, die dann Angst haben, was falsch zu machen und dann gar nicht damit damit arbeiten. Und dem kann man entgegenwirken, indem man einfach ganz feste Guidelines quasi schafft und eben son Kompetenz Framework mitdenkt und entwickelt und dadurch den Mitarbeitenden einfach eine Hilfestellung und Sicherheit an die Hand gibt. Wobei, was ich sagen wollte, so kleine Experimentierräume auch total sinnvoll sein können, einfach mal zu gucken, jetzt hab ich eine Lösung, aber vielleicht fällt mir ja dann ein, ach, bei meiner täglichen Arbeit in dem und dem Bereich könnte sowas vielleicht auch ganz sinnvoll sein, ne?\n\nUnd und kann ich das mal ausprobieren und und wie kann ich das dann gestalten? Aber erst mal Sicherheit zu schaffen, nicht nur für die Mitarbeitenden, auch für das Unternehmen, dass ich da nicht in datenschutzrechtlich oder in anderer Hinsicht in irgendwelche Schwierigkeiten hineinlaufe.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also son Rausholen aus der Grauzone. Aber es ist schön, dass Du auch noch mal gesagt hast, wo wirklich die Chancen liegen, weil wir ja jetzt sehr gekommen sind von den Risiken, auch von den juristischen regulatorischen Risiken und es gibt aber eben auch gewaltige Chancen. Welche Einsatzfelder kann man denn da unterscheiden? Also ihr nennt ja in dem Kompetenz Framework 3 Stück, Textgenerierung und Kommunikation ist 1 davon, dann Wissensmanagement und Informationserschließung und Interaktion mit Bürger*innen und Fallbearbeitung. Könntet ihr das noch mal aufschlüsseln, dass man sich auch wirklich was drunter vorstellen kann?\n\nAlso was für Anwendungen sind denn da denkbar? Oder sind vielleicht auch existieren schon, ne? Es gibt ja auch schon Dinge.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, also bei der Informations, also wie Nicole vorhin schon gesagt hat, das geht eigentlich grundsätzlich oder son bisschen macht der der der Anwendungsfalltext in der Verwaltung natürlich aktuell am meisten Sinn, weil das einfach die größte Menge an Daten sind, die in Verwaltungen verwendet werden. Wie Du grade gesagt hast, zur Informationserschließung und fürs Wissensmanagement gibt's eben die Möglichkeit, aus Dokumenten, die erst mal als Textdokument per se, so dann spricht da von unstrukturierten Daten, die erst mal unstrukturiert sind, quasi strukturierte Daten rauszuziehen. Also gewisse Informationen, die in einem Fließtext, sag ich mal, beispielsweise vorhanden sind mithilfe von generativen KI Modellen, diese Informationen zu extrahieren und dann in weitere Prozess oder für weitere Entscheidungs- oder Prozessschritte verfügbar zu machen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist quasi\n\nSpeaker 1: die Information so.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ist da son Beispiel dafür? Noch son bisschen theoretisch. Also ich glaube, gibt's nicht in Berlin irgendwie was, was dann aus den parlamentarischen Anfragen\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, das\n\nSpeaker 0: wär Modul für parlamentarische Anfragen gibt's in Berlin, ne?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, das ist sozusagen sone Mischung zwischen Chatbot und Informationserschließung. Öffentlich verfügbares Beispiel sogar, da kann man als Bürger, Bürgerin in Berlin einfach mal schauen, was die in in Berlin, Moment, ich muss mal ganz kurz gucken, das geht quasi Parlava dieses, genau. Und da geht's vor allem die Hauptausschussvorgänge der Wahlperiode. Also quasi im Prinzip geht's geht's darum, als Bürgerin in Berlin mal zu gucken, was mein Abgeordnetenhaus so entschieden hat. Und dafür wurde 'n Chatbot entwickelt, der dann auf die jeweiligen Ausschussvorgänge dieser Wahlperiode zugreifen kann und dann die Fragen der Bürgerinnen, der Bürger, zum Beispiel, was wurde in Sachen Wohnraum oder in Sachen\n\nSpeaker 2: Parkplätze.\n\nSpeaker 1: Parkplätze oder was auch immer\n\nSpeaker 2: So, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau von Berlin beschlossen. Und dann antwortet der Chatbot auf Basis dieser Daten. Das heißt, er anders als jetzt vielleicht andere öffentliche verfügbare Chatbots, die nicht auf bestimmte Daten trainiert sind, nutzt er nur die Informationen, die er aus diesen Dokumenten ziehen kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Man spricht da von sogenannten Chatbots, also. Das heißt, die ziehen wirklich die Informationen, die sie dann für ihre Antworten nutzen, nur aus einem bestimmten Set an an an Dokumenten und Informationen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich erspare mir das dann eben als Bürgerin, mich durch die ganzen Protokolle zu Wühlen von sämtlichen Ausschusssitzungen und so weiter Genau, krieg. Der erschließt es für mich, ne?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau und krieg's quasi son bisschen strukturierter aufbereitet, genau. Aber das, was halt wichtig zu wissen ist, ist, dass generative KI oder die Technologie, die hinter generativer KI steckt, auch über Chatbots, das ist so das klassische Beispiel, das einem immer gleich einfällt, aber es geht auch über Chatbots oder kann auch über Chatbots hinausgehen. Und das war das, was ich vorhin meinte. Also quasi generative KI kann auch helfen, eben trotzdem beispielsweise eine Tabelle aus 'nem Text zu machen, ne. Das war das, was ich vorhin meinte.\n\nUnd das ist das ist das, was in Verwaltungen und in in Verwaltungsprozessen einfach auch sehr, sehr viel Arbeitserleichterung schaffen. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Also sowas wie, gut, ich hab's jetzt mehr 'n literarisches Beispiel, aber man könnte sagen, machen wir mal eine Tabelle auf der Suche nach der verlorenen Zeit. Wie oft kommt das Wort Zeit vor und wie ist der Anteil von weiblichen und männlichen Protagonisten? So was könnte man machen, ne?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja oder deutlich auch komplexer, also dadurch, dass die Sprachmodelle ja etwas höheres etwas höheres Sprachverständnis haben oder ein höheres Konzeptverständnis als jetzt klassisches, einfach nur Wörter zählen\n\nSpeaker 2: zum Beispiel\n\nSpeaker 0: Das stimmt, das zu einfach.\n\nSpeaker 1: Kann man quasi auch son bisschen schon mehr Informationen, die man als als Leser als Leserin von 'nem Text quasi durch sich erschließen rausziehen würde, kann man quasi auch schon mithilfe von generativer KI dann rausziehen. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Also wir\n\nSpeaker 0: haben jetzt gesprochen über Dinge, die es schon gibt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was könntet ihr euch denn für zukünftige Anwendungsfelder vorstellen, die ihr euch eben vorstellen könnt, weil ihr euch mit dem Thema intensiv befasst habt, aber die sich so jemand in der Behörde, für den ist es vielleicht noch total utopisch, dass so was jemals klappen könnte.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also das ist, da wird's natürlich dann auch schnell kritisch und auch so, dass man sich als Gesellschaft generell überlegen muss, was wollen wir eigentlich von unserem Staat?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, weil\n\nSpeaker 0: nicht als was machbar ist, muss ja auch\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, genau, weil also da ist grade zum Beispiel die große Diskussion darum, wie inwiefern sollten immer Mitarbeiter, Mitarbeiterinnen der Behörde sozusagen den letzten den die letzte Entscheidung tragen, letztendlich die Entscheidung. Man man spricht davon Human oversite, also quasi menschliche Aufsicht in in solchen KI Prozessen weiterhin behalten. Aber wenn man das jetzt mal auf der beiseitelässt und sagt, es gäbe die Möglichkeit, möglichst fehlerfrei oder möglichst so, dass es möglichst eine geringe Fehlerquote hat, die Prozesse so weitgehend zu automatisieren, dann könnte man ganz utopisch gesprochen davon ausgehen, dass der Großteil der Behördeninteraktionen, die Bürgerinnen haben, theoretisch mithilfe von Chatbots automatisiert werden können, weil es geht größtenteils, wie Nicole gesagt hat, Text oder so Informationsaustausch und da kann eben generative KI ziemlich viel.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also Text und Daten und wir haben ja auch in dem in der Papier haben wir das auch noch mal ganz klar gemacht, dass wir uns generative KI Systeme angucken, die sone Assistenzfunktion haben oder wo es eine Teilautomatisierung geht. Das heißt, da sind auch immer noch mitarbeitende Menschen beteiligt, das nennt man dann Human in the Loop. Also in diesem ganzen Prozess werden zwar Dinge vielleicht vorbereitet, aufbereitet, Texte natürlich können das auch Daten sein, also tatsächlich Zahlen, aber letztlich sind dann sind dann doch immer Mitarbeitende beteiligt und die treffen die Entscheidung, sind dann doch immer Mitarbeitende beteiligt und die treffen die Entscheidung. Aber klar, gerade wenn's wenn's Prozesse geht, wo beispielsweise Bürgerinnen und Bürger einen Anspruch haben, wo sie und wenn man dann noch weiterdenkt, das ist ja schon fast utopisch, wenn wir dann die Registermodernisierung geschafft haben, tatsächlich die Register verknüpft sind und man darauf auch zugreifen kann, dann könnte man sich ja schon denken, keine Ahnung, Elterngeld, dass ich da vielleicht ja doch, muss ich noch sagen, wie lange möchte ich in Elternzeit gehen, aber alles andere, was habe ich denn überhaupt für Ansprüche und was habe ich denn überhaupt verdient, das könnte ja dann alles automatisch passieren und dann könnte ich ja auch von generativer KI einen netten formulierten Bescheid erhalten, dass ich dann 'n Anspruch auf Elterngeld habe.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, das hat mir auch eine eigene Folge dazu, wollte ich an der Stelle Genau. Ergänzen zur Automatisierung von Verwaltungsverfahren und in Österreich wird es schon gemacht, also bei dem Kindergeld, glaube ich, Kindergeld ist, genau, die machen das schon. Also soweit denke ich es nicht und wir haben eine ganze Folge dazu, kann man nachhören. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau und wenn ich da kurz noch ergänzen darf, Nicole, ich glaub, der große Vorteil von generativer KI versus, sagen wir mal, klassischer Automatisierung mithilfe von beispielsweise Eingabeformularen et cetera, die Bürgerinnen ausfüllen müssen, liegt natürlich darin, dass generative KI natürlich sprachlich mit den Bürgerinnen interagieren kann. Und idealerweise, das da gibt's auch schon Beispiele dafür, dass die generative KI, nachdem wie gut das zugrunde liegende Sprachmodell ist, sich auch sprachlich so anpassen kann, dass es für die Bürgerinnen und Bürger einfacher wird, die Behörden Fachsprache, sag ich mal, zu verstehen und auch dann wirklich da vielleicht zu kommunizieren, was tatsächlich die Bedarfe sind. Und damit auch zu 'ner leichteren Verständigung zwischen, sag ich mal, Behördensprech und Bürgerinnensprech.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also son Thema bei jeder Freiheit, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nicht nur auch Fremdsprache. Auch fremdsprachlich, also auch Übersetzung ist natürlich auch 'n super Anwendungsfall für generative KI und genau, wenn ich den Deutschen vielleicht nicht so mächtig bin, ist das natürlich auch toll, wenn dann dadurch noch mal Hürden abgebaut werden können im Behördenkontakt Und dieses, dass ich natürlich sprachlich damit interagieren kann, ist natürlich auch für die Verwaltungsmitarbeitenden ganz relevant. Also damit umziehen zu können mit diesen Tools, muss ich eben nicht in der Lage sein, zu programmieren, sondern\n\nSpeaker 0: ich kann halt einfach natürlich sprachlich irgendwelche Eingaben machen, Fragen stellen et cetera. Ihr zitiert in eurer Veröffentlichung auch eine Unternehmensbefragung vom Statistischen Bundesamt. Da wird fehlendes Wissen mit 71 Prozent als Topgrund dafür genannt, warum KI in Unternehmen nicht genutzt wird. Das ist jetzt eine Untersuchung, die bezieht sich wie gesagt auf Unternehmen. Wenn ihr jetzt schätzen müsstet, wie ist es denn bei der Verwaltung?\n\nIst da der Prozentsatz für vielen das Wissen ähnlich hoch?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich glaub ja, das lässt sich auf die Verwaltung übertragen, weil das ist das, was natürlich bei dem, was wir grade, was immer son bisschen durch durchgeklungen ist in dem ganzen Gespräch bis jetzt auch, dass die Verantwortung und das Risiko, das natürlich in der Verwaltung besteht, wenn man solche Systeme einsetzt, über Bürgerbefinden irgendwie zu entscheiden beispielsweise, ist natürlich gegebenenfalls noch mal höher als im Privatsektor, ne. Im Privatsektor geht's quasi auch darum, Datenschutz einzuhalten und so weiter. Aber aber der Rechtsanspruch, dem ein Bürger gegenüber dem Staat hat, ist natürlich 'n ganz anderer und noch mal viel umfänglicher als der, den ein ein Kunde, eine Kundin gegenüber einem Unternehmen hat. Deswegen glaub ich sogar, dass die Zahlen im öffentlichen Sektor vielleicht sogar eher in der Richtung, also eher höher liegen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, weil man auch mehr Wissen braucht sozusagen. Deswegen Weil\n\nSpeaker 1: man mehr Wissen braucht und mehr mehr Unsicherheit hat und mehr sichergehen muss, dass das auch wirklich alles korrekt und nach rechtlichen Vorschriften funktioniert. Und da werden wir wahrscheinlich jetzt dann gleich noch drauf eingehen. Das kommt halt braucht nicht nur Wissen bei den Nutzerinnen, sondern eben auch bei den Techniker Technikerinnen und bei den Entscheiderinnen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Und ihr habt's ja also Kompetenz Framework genannt und nicht Wissens Framework.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also dieser Kompetenzbegriff ist ja mehr, als was man sich jetzt so unmittelbar vorstellt und was man vielleicht in Fortbildungen vermitteln könnte. Es ist eben mehr als Wissen,\n\nSpeaker 1: ne? Genau, also Kompetenz, da orientieren wir uns an der OECD. Da wird eigentlich gesagt, Kompetenz ermöglicht es, eine Aufgabe oder Aktivität in einem spezifischen Kontext erfolgreich zu erledigen. Also es geht quasi einen konkreten Nutzen 1 Kompetenz für eine bestimmte Aufgabe. Und was das aber bedeutet, ist, dass es eben über das Wissen hinausgeht, weil erfolgreich irgendwas bewältigen zu können, brauch ich nicht nur das Wissen, sondern ich muss es auch dieses Wissen auch anwenden können und ich brauch und das ist auch im im Kontext von generativer KI sehr wichtig, das Mindset dahinter, also die Haltung, beispielsweise offen, aber kritisch mit solchen Systemen umgehen zu können.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, dann Das heißt, das könnte auch total individuell und charakterabhängig auch sein, oder? Also je nachdem, welcher Mensch da vor einem sitzt, der braucht vielleicht andere Kompetenzfelder, die bei ihm entwickelt werden müssten.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, ja, das kann charakterabhängig sein, wobei da würde ich sagen, grade im im im Bereich von Mindset wird's natürlich dann son bisschen auch schwierig dann zu sagen, so inwiefern können wir das tatsächlich beeinflussen? Wir versuchen in unserem Kompetenz Framework Framework sozusagen den Idealzustand, was wir sehen und was wir auch aus der Literatur gefunden haben, was wichtig ist. Aber individuell können natürlich bestimmte Bereiche unter ausgeprägt sein oder über ausgeprägt sein und die muss man dann entsprechend anpassen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, weil ich kann durch die organisationalen Regeln, auch durch die Organisationskultur, kann ich natürlich dieses diesen Mindset auch 'n bisschen beeinflussen. Also beim Mindset geht's ja auch beispielsweise Offenheit, Experimentierfreude. Das kann ich ja auch 'n bisschen vorleben und auch psychologische Sicherheit schaffen beispielsweise, damit meine Mitarbeitenden dann auch in der Lage sind, vielleicht diese Experimentierfreude auch auszuleben. Auf der anderen Seite kann ich durch die Organisationskultur auch eher dazu beitragen, dass eben vielleicht keine so große Offenheit herrscht. Also ich kann Es ist natürlich schon auch definitiv individuell beeinflusst, aber durch die organisationalen Regeln und die Organisationskultur, also wie's dann gelebt wird, kann man das durchaus beeinflussen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, okay. Jetzt ist ja Kompetenzerwerb nichts Neues, ne? Wir leben in 1 Welt des lebenslangen Lernens. Mitarbeitende haben vielleicht gerade gelernt, wie man Dinge in die Cloud hochlädt, wie man aus der Cloud arbeitet oder irgendwas. Aber was ist denn grundsätzlich anders an der Einführung der Nutzung von generativer KI im Vergleich zur Einführung, sagen wir mal, jetzt einen neuen Softwarelösung?\n\nEs ist ja schon 'n ganz anderer Ansatz, oder?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, generative KI auf Basis von großen Sprachmodellen, die wir sprechen da von offenen Systemen oder die eine offenen Nutzung zulassen, ne, also wo ich quasi theoretisch alles damit machen könnte. Da ist natürlich die nötigen Kompetenzen dafür, dann auch nur diese Systeme dann oder diese Systeme dann entsprechend anzuwenden, deutlich höher als, sag ich mal, in 'ner Software, die mir nur eine Eingabe von bestimmten Informationen ermöglicht und diese auch nur auf eine bestimmte Art verarbeitet.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Diese Mensch Maschine Interaktion ist auch irgendwie anders, ne? Ich finde, es fühlt sich anders an, dass man irgendwie nicht so klar ist, okay, bist Du jetzt der Experte, bin ich der Experte? Also irgendwie fühlt sich's 'n bisschen gleichberechtigter an als bei so Sachen, die so eindeutig einfach Werkzeuge zur Arbeit sind.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also je nachdem, wie frei und offen ich sie nutzen kann, werden dadurch natürlich auch höhere Anforderungen daran gestellt, was ich dann mit den Ergebnissen mache. Also dass ich auch in der Lage bin, diesen Output, den ich dann da habe, Zusammenfassung, Empfehlungen, Klassifizierung, Sonstiges, auch kritisch bewerten zu können und mir auch bewusst zu sein, ja, also auf den ersten Blick kann diese Lösung sehr, sehr viel, aber es gibt halt auch gewisse Grenzen im Umgang mit generativer KI, die mir da bewusst sein müssen. Genau, ich kann das 'n bisschen eingrenzen durch durch solche Rex, wie Max eben schon gesagt hatte, aber dass zum Beispiel es auch sein kann, dass da irgendwas halluziniert wird, was vielleicht sich eigentlich nicht so ergeben hat aus aus den Informationen, die zugrunde lagen. Also dass ich auch in der Lage bin, eben, dass ich die zugrunde lagen. Also dass ich auch in der Lage bin, eben diesen Output damit verantwortungsvoll umzugehen und den auch Und die Qualität einschätzen zu können und auch zu wissen, wie kann ich damit umgehen?\n\nWo muss ich vielleicht genau hingucken und inwieweit kann mir das tatsächlich weiterhelfen? Also, das ist schon eine höhere Anforderung, als wenn ich jetzt ein ein Programm nutze.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja und muss vielleicht auch anders vermittelt werden dann letztendlich ins Unternehmen, also in die Behörde rein.\n\nSpeaker 1: Es muss anders vermittelt werden und das muss auch, also darin liegt dann sozusagen die Kehrseite dieser natürlich sprachlichen Interaktion mit solchen Systemen, weil das natürlich erst mal überzeugend klingt oder überzeugend klingen kann, was da rauskommt. Und das heißt, dass die Mitarbeiterinnen dann nicht der Versuchung verfallen, das dann einfach so direkt zu übernehmen und zu sagen, ja, das wird schon passen, die Maschine hat das so gesagt, sondern dass es eben auch 'n Bewusstsein dafür gibt, wie kommt denn die Maschine überhaupt zu dem Ergebnis und wie hat vielleicht auch das, was ich vorher mit der Maschine besprochen hab in dem gleichen Chat beispielsweise, Einfluss darauf eventuell und hab ich vielleicht die Maschine durch meine Eingaben auch in eine bestimmte Richtung gelenkt oder muss ich sie in eine bestimmte Richtung lenken? Man spricht da dann, es gibt da auch so schon Ansätze, die dann quasi von Metathinking sprechen, also nicht mehr quasi von vom ganz konkreten am Anwendungsfall oder an an der konkreten Fragestellung, sondern eigentlich mehr, wie gehe ich sone Fragestellung ganz generell eigentlich an und wie wie versuche ich in sonem Prozess, vielleicht mit 'ner generativen KI, auf eine Lösung zu kommen? Also es wird quasi die Kompetenzen gehen son Stück weit auf eine höhere Ebene vielleicht sogar.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, okay. Klingt anspruchsvoll. Inwieweit kann denn dieses Kompetenz Framework dabei helfen? Also als ihr das erarbeitet habt, was habt ihr euch da vorgestellt? Für wen kann das hilfreich sein?\n\nWie kann man's nutzen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Es richtet sich vor allem an die Personen, die damit befasst sind, zu entscheiden, ob und wie KI eingesetzt wird in der Organisation und an die Personen, die eben mit dem Kompetenzaufbau in der Organisation befasst sind, nämlich genau in diesem Zuge dann auch zu überlegen, was für eine Lösung haben wir denn hier? Genau, was hat die beispielsweise für eine Risikoklasse? Was hat die für einen Anwendungsfall? Was soll damit überhaupt gemacht werden können, was vielleicht auch gerade nicht? Und was bedeutet das dann auch im gleichen Schritt für die Kompetenzen für die Mitarbeitenden der Organisation?\n\nAlso es soll sone Orientierung geben, sone Hilfestellung, dass einfach da sich einen Überblick zu verschaffen und zu überlegen, wie wollen wir es machen? Was braucht es dafür?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, es ist quasi Es geht 'n ganzheitlichen Blick auf dieses Thema. Wenn wir generative KI in der Verwaltung einsetzen wollen, haben wir nämlich eigentlich 2 Stellschrauben, wenn man so sagen will, den effektiven und sicheren Einsatz sicherzustellen. Einerseits die Gestaltung des Systems und andererseits die Anwendung 1 Systems. Und bei der Gestaltung des Systems geht's dann darum, die Entscheiderinnen und die Technikerinnen, die über solche Systeme entscheiden, über den Einsatz entscheiden und den auch dann bereitstellen oder die Systeme implementieren, dass die eben über die ganzen Grenzen, Möglichkeiten Bescheid wissen, wie ich solche Systeme am besten implementieren kann. Und auf der Nutzung des Systems geht's natürlich die Nutzer und die Nutzerinnen, die dann\n\nSpeaker 0: Die auch Bürger*innen sein können am\n\nSpeaker 1: Die auch Bürger*innen sein können, wobei wir da son bisschen mit unserem Kompetenz Framework natürlich uns primär auf die gehöreninternen Mitarbeiterinnen, beispielsweise Fachexpertin, Fachbearbeiterinnen et cetera fokussieren, weil die Bürgerinnen und Bürger, die werden bestimmt auch die die generative KI Kompetenzen sind, auf der Seite auch zu schulen, aber das geht son bisschen über das hinaus, was eine Behörde intern leisten kann, natürlich.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Das noch mal deutlich zu sagen, es muss nicht in 1 Behörde jeder alles können. Also es müssen nicht alle Beamtinnen im gleichen Maß zur KI Experten werden.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, einfach nur Kompetenzen zu Schulen ganz generell für alle in 1 Organisation macht wenig Sinn, sondern die Kompetenzschulung muss immer mit 1 konkreten Gen KI Lösung einhergehen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also wir wissen, wir haben eine Anwendung und dann an der Anwendung vermitteln wir\n\nSpeaker 1: An der Anwendung vermitteln, genau. Und da haben wir wir unterscheiden auch noch mal vom über Also es gibt Basiskompetenzen, da sagen wir, okay, das ist das sind quasi Grundverständnis zu generativer KI und Datenverarbeitung und so weiter. Das ist gut, wenn das alle wissen, auch das, was wir anfangs besprochen haben, auch die Potenziale zu sehen in der Organisation, ne. Dafür braucht's gewisse Basiskompetenzen. Die haben wir auch aufgeführt in unserem Framework, aber alles, was über diese Basiskompetenzen hinausgeht, sagen wir, macht nur Sinn, wenn man's mit Blick auf eine spezifische generative KI Lösung schult.\n\nAlso wenn ich quasi eine Idee hab, wie soll diese wie soll diese Lösung aussehen ungefähr und von wem soll sie genutzt werden? Erst dann macht's Sinn quasi, gezielt zu schulen, weil dann weiß ich, was fürn Freiheitsgrad, also wie offen ist ist das System gestaltet? Was kann der Nutzer, die Nutzerin mit dem System machen? Und weiß auch das Risiko, das quasi in diesem Anwendungskontext bestehen kann. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Kannst Du noch einmal die Basiskenntnisse so ausführen kurz? Also ich nehm an, Datenschutz gehört da dazu, Wissen und Barrierefreiheit, solche Sachen, ne, sind da drin.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also, genau, es geht primär geht's darum, quasi erst mal digitale Bedienkompetenz, also sich überhaupt mit digitalen Anwendungen zurechtzufinden. Datenkompetenz sind erst mal die ganz grundlegenden Sachen, die unabhängig von generativer KI sind und dann die generativen, KI bezogenen Kompetenzen. Da geht's darum, eben zu wissen, was wofür kann ich generative KI einsetzen und wofür gegebenenfalls nicht? Also von Texterstellung, Bildgenerierung, Übersetzungen, Transkriptionen und so weiter und das Wissen über die Funktionsweise. Also wie wird das eigentlich gemacht?\n\nWie funktioniert son generatives KI System ganz generell? Also jetzt nicht im Detail, sondern einfach nur 'n Grundverständnis davon zu haben, dass der Output eben auf Basis statistischer Kenntnisse sozusagen aus gewissen Trainingsdaten Ja. Erzeugt wird.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und wenn Du jetzt, mir leuchtet das total ein, dass es Sinn macht, das am praktischen Beispiel dann zu entwickeln, die einzelnen Kompetenzen, aber ist es nicht auch 'n Stück weit sone Henne Ei Geschichte, dass Leute, die ja gar nicht wissen, so richtig, was man damit machen kann, sich dann Sachen ausdenken müssen, mit denen man dann die Kompetenzen schult? Also weißt Du, was ich meine? Also wie kommt man überhaupt die Anwendungen, ne, wenn jetzt\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, genau, genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Kompetenzen noch nicht so flächendeckend da sind?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, also deswegen sagen wir ja, diese Basiskompetenzen sind sollen genau diesen diesen diesen Problemen vorbeugen, dass wir quasi sagen, eine dieses gewisse Grundverständnis muss da sein und dann gehen wir quasi von den Basiskompetenzen, die idealerweise möglichst breit geschult werden, eben die Potenziale auch in der Organisation aufzudecken. Mhm. Wenn's dann darüber hinausgeht, geht's dann quasi in die Entscheiderinnenkompetenzen, die dann konkreter wissen, okay, was was sind jetzt beispielsweise die strategischen Voraussetzungen, die Risiken, betriebswirtschaftlichen Gesichtspunkte und so weiter, um's dann auch konkret in Projekten umsetzen zu können. Die Techniker, die dann die technische Seite betreuen und zum Schluss dann auch die Nutzerinnen, die dann quasi diese Systeme anwenden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und jetzt mal also von der Idee dieses Kompetenz Frameworks zurück in die Praxis. Also diese Basiskompetenzen, wo ihr sagt, das ist so der erste Schritt und die Grundlage, wie weit ist das denn? Also ist da schon der Lernprozess in Gang gekommen in den Behörden?\n\nSpeaker 1: Teilweise ja, weil in den Basiskompetenzen stecken natürlich auch Digitalkompetenzen ganz allgemein drin und die werden auch schon vermittelt. Inwiefern generative KI Kompetenzen, also spezifisch auf generative KI und beispielsweise die Nutzungsmöglichkeiten und die Grenzen und so weiter, da ist es vermutlich, wir haben da keine belastbaren Daten, aber vermutlich sehr unterschiedlich. Da gibt's einige Behörden, die da sehr weit sind, die ja auch gewisse Systeme auch schon einsetzen und andere Behörden, die da eben noch ganz am Anfang stehen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und Max hat es ja gesagt, also Behörden, die solche Systeme schon einsetzen, müssen eigentlich auch schon weiter vorne sein, was die Kompetenzen angeht, weil die KI Verordnung eben genau auch das festlegt. Also Organisationen, die generative KI einsetzen, müssen auch dafür sorgen, dass die Mitarbeitenden über den entsprechenden Kompetenzbedarf verfügen. Also das ist tatsächlich in der KI Verordnung auch festgelegt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und vielleicht, wenn ich auch noch eine Sache kurz ergänzen darf bei dem Thema Schulungen, weil was häufig vorkommt, ist natürlich, dass 'n risikobasierter Schulungsansatz gefahren wird, wo quasi auf die Datenschutz und sonstigen Risiken aufmerksam gemacht wird. Und das ist alles auch gut so und auch wichtig, aber man sollte nicht vergessen, eben auch die Chancen auch entsprechend zu schulen und die Mitarbeiterinnen auch quasi in den die Möglichkeiten von diesen Technologien auch aufzuzeigen und die die positiven Anwendungsfälle auch entsprechend zu schulen. Also nicht nur quasi 'n risikobasierter Ansatz, sondern auch den bisschen mehr ausbalancieren mit 'nem eher chancenbasierten Ansatz.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Und vielleicht auch geht's Raum, oder? Also ich erinnere mich, als ich das erste Mal versucht hab, zum Beispiel eine Präsentation zu prompten und es hat definitiv viel, viel länger gedauert, als wenn ich das selber gemacht hätte. Also es geht ja auch 'n bisschen dieses, worüber wir hier oft sprechen, so Fehlerfreundlichkeit, Zeit, Raum, ne, das ist ja auch wichtig, wahrscheinlich.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, ausprobieren, experimentieren, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, okay. Wir haben jetzt grad über die verschiedenen Rollen gesprochen, also dass eben nicht jeder alles wissen muss und dass es gut ist, am konkreten Anwendungsfall zu arbeiten. Jetzt gibt's ja auch verschiedene Systeme und die bringen auch verschiedene Freiheitsgrade mit sich. Max, kannst Du das noch mal erklären? Was ist überhaupt son Freiheitsgrad und warum ist das wichtig, eben auf das System auch noch mal zu gucken, weil das Auswirkungen auf die Kompetenzen hat?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, 'n Freiheitsgrad, den Begriff verwenden wir so, dass wir damit versuchen zum Reisen, wie viel Freiheit ein System den Nutzenden gibt in der Interaktion. Also beispielsweise kann ich frei wählen, was ich diesem System an Informationen reingebe? Kann ich die Funktion frei wählen? Und dann kann man quasi grundsätzlich 3 Systeme, man kann 4 unterscheiden, aber wir machen die 3 Haupt 3 Hauptarten. Einmal quasi eine vorgegebene Nutzung, wo ich quasi weder Input noch Funktion frei wählen kann, eine geführte Nutzung, wo ich den Input zwar frei wählen kann, aber das System beispielsweise eine Übersetzung, die immer einfach nur Deutsch und Englisch übersetzt, da kann ich zwar den Input, den Text, den ich reingebe, immer anders auswählen, aber im Prinzip die Funktion ist vorgegeben.\n\nUnd dann letztendlich die offenen Nutzung, das sind quasi klassische, was wir jetzt heute unter Chatbots, also große Sprach unter großen Chatbots, die auf großen Sprachmodellen basieren, verstehen. Da kann ich sowohl frei wählen, was ich dem System an Informationen reingebe, als auch welche, was ich mit diesen Informationen machen will, ne, und und welche welche Funktion ich quasi von dem System haben möchte. Und je nachdem, wie dieser Freiheitsgrad ausgestaltet ist, also ob er quasi den Nutzerinnen eine höhere Freiheit gibt bei 'ner offenen Nutzung oder eine ganz geringe Freiheit bei 'ner vorgegebenen oder sehr geführten Nutzung oder geführten Nutzung, verschieben sich die Kompetenzanforderungen. Also 'n 'n Nutzer muss natürlich mehr Kompetenzen haben bei Systemen, die komplett offen gestaltet sind und weniger, wenn diese Systeme eine vorgegebene oder eine geführte Nutzung haben. In dem Fall ist es aber wichtig, dass dieses System die die die die Kompetenzen, die dann nicht bei den Nutzerinnen liegen müssen zwangsläufig, die müssen ja irgendwo anders liegen, weil das System muss ja trotzdem sozusagen wissen, was es was es was es tun darf, was es tun kann und so weiter und was es tun soll.\n\nUnd die Kompetenzen, die dafür nötig sind, das zu entscheiden, müssen dann eben nicht bei den Nutzerinnen liegen, sondern bei den Technikerinnen und bei den Entscheiderinnen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, bei den beiden Ebenen drüber sozusagen, ne, würde man sagen Genau. Oder die, die vorherkommen. Wie\n\nSpeaker 1: vorher, genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Genau. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das Also bei der das da das hatte ich ja vorhin auch schon, glaub ich, versucht, so kurz anzureißen bei der Gestaltung des Systems, ne. Also diese 2 Stellschrauben, einmal Gestaltung des System, einmal Nutzung des Systems. Und wenn ich die Kompetenzen eben bei der Nutzung des Systems möglichst gering halten will, brauche ich entsprechend höhere Kompetenzen bei der Gestaltung des Systems.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau und was da noch einen Einfluss auf den jeweiligen Kompetenzbedarf hat, ist die Risikoklasse. Die haben wir eben auch einmal ganz kurz angesprochen, weil je höher die entsprechende Risikoklasse, desto größer sind auch die Anforderungen, die sich aus der europäischen KI Verordnung ergeben, beispielsweise in Bezug auf Haftung oder auch auf menschlicher Aufsicht und das heißt, diese systemspezifischen Kompetenzen, das sind dann Kompetenzen im Bereich Ethik, Recht und Standards, also Rechtsvorschriften, technische Normen, Datenschutz, aber beispielsweise auch Nachhaltigkeit und auch die Fachkompetenz. Da steigen die Anforderungen, je höher die Risikoklasse und das betrifft dann die systemspezifischen Komponenten, also die, die ich gerade genannt habe, für die jeweiligen Rollen, also für Nutzerinnen, Entscheiderinnen und Technikerinnen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja und dafür ist eben das Kompetenz Framework sehr nützlich, weil man dann einfach mal diese ganzen Variablen so aufgeschlüsselt sieht, ne? Was sind alles Einflussfaktoren auf welche Kompetenzen brauche ich?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, man weiß einfach, was muss ich im Blick behalten? Was muss ich mir bewusst machen, wenn ich eben überlege generativer KI einzuführen?\n\nSpeaker 0: Wir sind jetzt schon ziemlich am Ende der Folge und ich wollte dich aber noch mal ganz konkret fragen. Also für alle Leute, die jetzt Lust haben, loszulegen mit diesem Kompetenz Framework und ansetzen wollen, da wo wir gesagt haben, dass man eben ansetzen sollte bei den Basiskompetenzen. Wie bringt man das denn in Gang?\n\nSpeaker 1: Na, das Allerwichtigste beim In Gangbringen ist, dass die Schwelle zum In Gangbringen möglichst niedrig ist. Das bedeutet, Angebote schaffen in der Organisation, sich sehr einfach mit diesen mit dem mit mit dieser Technologie auseinanderzusetzen. Also entweder durch beispielsweise eine Kaffeepause, durch 'n ein Mittagessen, wo diese Systeme eben nebenbei mal erklärt werden und die die Möglichkeiten und und Risiken bei der Nutzung aufgezeigt werden. Also das heißt, möglichst möglichst niedrigschwellig\n\nSpeaker 0: Also nicht gleich son fünftägiges Seminar ansetzen, sondern Genau,\n\nSpeaker 1: nicht gleich Nein, klar. Mit dem mit dem mit der Kanone auch Spatzen schießen, sondern da geht's erst mal darum, wie der Name sagt, die ganz grundlegenden Basis möglichst breit zu verankern. Und natürlich ist es da dann die Frage, inwiefern kann man so was verpflichtend machen? Idealerweise wär's, dass solche Veranstaltungen verpflichtend sind, eben sicherzustellen, dass möglichst alle und nicht nur die, die die Lust haben oder die die sich dafür interessieren bei solchen Veranstaltungen dabei sind, also quasi auch remote. Also es gibt ja auch ganz viele wunderbare Onlinematerialien schon Ja,\n\nSpeaker 2: also man\n\nSpeaker 0: muss nicht das Rad neu erfinden. Es gibt Dinge, die sind schon da, ne? Könnt ihr da irgendwas empfehlen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also es geht ja erst mal darum, bei den Basiskompetenzen auch son bisschen die Denkräume aufzumachen und erst mal den Blick son bisschen zu weiten dafür, was was ist auch generative KI, nicht nur, aber auch das und überhaupt, wo könnte ich die vielleicht überhaupt in meiner Organisation, in meiner alltäglichen Arbeit einsetzen und das eben möglichst niedrigschwellig und möglichst nutzer*innenzentriert zu gestalten, also vielleicht auch so verschiedene Learning Nuggets anzubieten. Max hat da gerade schon 'n paar genannt, die Datenlabore des Bundes machen da schon relativ viel, die haben dann auch Tutorials, die haben irgendwelche Hilfestellungen oder Leitfäden, die man nutzen kann, sich mal einfach, vielleicht auch nur in 5 Minuten, einfach son bisschen mal damit auseinanderzusetzen und da son bisschen reinzuarbeiten. Und wer schon relativ viel macht, auch für die gesamte Bundesverwaltung beispielsweise, ist das BMZ, also die haben Webinare, wo es verschiedene Datenthemen geht. KI und auch generative KI spielt dann natürlich auch eine Rolle und die steht allen Mitarbeitenden in der Bundesverwaltung stehen die offen und die werden hinterher auch beispielsweise über Youtube bereitgestellt, das heißt auch von anderen Verwaltungsebenen, Länder oder Kommunen oder auch interessierte Bürger*innen können sich diese Tutorials angucken und sich 'n bisschen aufschlauen zu generativer KI.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mehr Input, mehr Kompetenz zu diesem Thema gibt's online unter öfid Punkt d e mit o e geschrieben. Und nächsten Monat gibt's natürlich wieder eine neue Folge von We Start digital, dann wieder mit meinem Kollegen Philipp 1. Alle unsere früheren Podcasts, zum Beispiel auch den zum Thema Automatisierung des Verwaltungsverfahrens findet ihr auf den gängigen Podcastplattformen, auf Apple Podcasts, auf Spotify und auf vielen weiteren Portalen. Da könnt ihr digital auch abonnieren. Ich bin Franziska Walser, ich danke euch fürs Zuhören.\n\nBis zum nächsten Mal.", "paragraphs": [ { "sentences": [ { "text": "Schnell ein Gedicht zum Geburtstag des Großonkels schreiben, Mona Lisa in einem Video rappen lassen oder einen Podcast komplett ohne Sprecher*innen und Studio erstellen.", "start": 1.5999999, "end": 10.5 }, { "text": "Das alles kann generative künstliche Intelligenz, vorausgesetzt natürlich, man weiß wie.", "start": 10.639999, "end": 15.38 }, { "text": "Auch im öffentlichen Sektor wird schon mit KI gearbeitet, in Projekten aber auch auf Eigeninitiative, weil einzelne Mitarbeitende frei verfügbare KI Werkzeuge einfach nutzen.", "start": 15.955, "end": 25.015 }, { "text": "Wie diese KI Kompetenz systematisch und flächendeckend in den Organisationen verankert werden kann, darum geht es heute bei.", "start": 25.474998, "end": 31.92 }, { "text": "Ich bin Franziska Walser und bin heute digital verbunden mit meinen beiden Co Hosts.", "start": 45.455, "end": 49.555 } ], "start": 1.5999999, "end": 49.555, "num_words": 91.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das sind Maximilian Kubi, wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter am Kompetenzzentrum öffentlicher IT, kurz öFIT, mit dem Schwerpunkt Datenanalyse, KI und digitale Verwaltung.", "start": 49.614998, "end": 59.155 }, { "text": "Und ebenfalls zugeschaltet ist Nicole Opiella, Politologin und stellvertretende Leiterin des Kompetenzzentrum Öffentlicher IT.", "start": 59.97, "end": 67.03 }, { "text": "Hallo Nicole, hallo Max.", "start": 67.17, "end": 68.630005 } ], "start": 49.614998, "end": 68.630005, "num_words": 38.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Hallo.", "start": 69.33, "end": 69.81 } ], "start": 69.33, "end": 69.81, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Hallo Franziska.", "start": 69.81, "end": 70.55 }, { "text": "So, wir sprechen heute über den Einsatz von KI und die Frage ist ja, wir sind so mittendrin, ne?", "start": 72.08501, "end": 78.565 }, { "text": "Ich hab ja grade gesagt, es gibt schon Mitarbeitende, die nutzen das, haben sich das Zeug einfach irgendwie runtergeladen, sich 'n Account gemacht.", "start": 78.565, "end": 86.185005 }, { "text": "Kann man das nicht einfach laufen lassen in dem Vertrauen darauf, dass das Arbeit abnimmt und das ist Motivation genug?", "start": 86.405, "end": 92.880005 } ], "start": 69.81, "end": 92.880005, "num_words": 64.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, das ist eine spannende Frage.", "start": 94.54, "end": 95.98 }, { "text": "Das ist wahrscheinlich auch der Ansatz, den viele jetzt aktuell fahren werden.", "start": 95.98, "end": 99.840004 }, { "text": "Und wir argumentieren in unserem Kompetenz Framework, dass es eben nicht einfach möglich ist, die Sachen laufen zu lassen, sondern dass es sinnvoll ist, den effektiven und sicheren Einsatz von generativer KI auch nachhaltig sicherzustellen in der Organisation, eben die Kompetenzen nicht als nices Add on sozusagen am Schluss zu sehen.", "start": 100.465004, "end": 119.97 }, { "text": "Wenn was eingeführt ist, machen wir jetzt noch schnell die Kompetenzen dazu und das schlauen die Mitarbeiterinnen auf, sondern das als essenzielle Grundlage dafür zu sehen.", "start": 119.97, "end": 128.05 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 128.05, "end": 128.415 } ], "start": 94.54, "end": 128.415, "num_words": 96.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Kannst Du's noch mal 'n bisschen mehr erklären?", "start": 128.495, "end": 129.935 }, { "text": "Also so Worst Case, wenn jetzt da sone wilde Nutzung auf eigene Faust erfolgt?", "start": 129.935, "end": 134.495 }, { "text": "Also was könnte da alles schieflaufen?", "start": 134.495, "end": 136.275 } ], "start": 128.495, "end": 136.275, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, Worst Case ist son bisschen das, was einem durch den EU AI Act drohen kann, wenn man quasi die Lösungen, die GenKI Lösungen nicht so einsetzt, dass sie quasi regulatorischen Maßgaben entsprechen.", "start": 136.495, "end": 149.14 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 149.16, "end": 149.66 } ], "start": 136.495, "end": 149.66, "num_words": 34.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und beispielsweise auch Klassen, ja, ne.", "start": 149.68001, "end": 151.52 }, { "text": "Da wird unterteilt Es", "start": 151.52, "end": 152.40001 } ], "start": 149.68001, "end": 152.40001, "num_words": 10.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "gibt Risikoklassen, ja.", "start": 152.40001, "end": 152.8 } ], "start": 152.40001, "end": 152.8, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Nutze das zum Beispiel für medizinische Zwecke.", "start": 152.88, "end": 154.64 }, { "text": "Ich nutz das, den Weg nach Hause finden und das sind unterschiedliche Risikoklassen, ne.", "start": 154.64, "end": 158.92499 } ], "start": 152.88, "end": 158.92499, "num_words": 21.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 158.92499, "end": 159.245 }, { "text": "Und dann gibt's aber auch noch die die Problematik, dass quasi welche Daten ich damit verwende, jetzt nicht zwangsläufig nur im EU AI Act, sondern auch GDPR, wie heißt das auf Deutsch?", "start": 159.245, "end": 170.4 }, { "text": "Datenschutz Grundverordnung.", "start": 171.84, "end": 172.65999 }, { "text": "Datenschutz Grundverordnung heißt das auf Deutsch, genau.", "start": 172.95999, "end": 175.29999 }, { "text": "Dass das da auch noch festgelegt ist.", "start": 175.51999, "end": 177.2 } ], "start": 158.92499, "end": 177.2, "num_words": 49.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das heißt, wenn Mitarbeiter jetzt plötzlich anfangen, irgendwelche persönlichen Daten in, ich sag's jetzt mal, 'n Chatbot einzugeben, dann wird's auch problematisch.", "start": 177.2, "end": 186.815 }, { "text": "Das heißt, auf jeden Fall ein gewisses Grundverständnis ist auf jeden Fall nötig und eine gewisse Sensibilisierung.", "start": 186.875, "end": 192.97499 }, { "text": "Aber wir argumentieren eben, dass es darüber auch hinausgehen muss in der Organisation.", "start": 193.915, "end": 198.815 } ], "start": 177.2, "end": 198.815, "num_words": 52.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Warum gibt's jetzt dieses Kompetenz Framework, was ihr entwickelt habt, warum muss sich der öffentliche Sektor wirklich spezifisch zu generativer KI positionieren?", "start": 199.19, "end": 208.81 } ], "start": 199.19, "end": 208.81, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Der öffentliche Sektor hat einfach durch seine Aufgaben und durch seine Anwendungsfelder, in denen generative KI zum Einsatz kommen kann, besondere Herausforderungen, weil eben schutzbedürftige Daten verwendet werden oder Entscheidungen getroffen werden, bei denen eben zum Beispiel der EU AI Act oder die Datenschutzgrundverordnung zum Tragen kommen und eben sichergestellt werden muss, dass diese Systeme richtig eingesetzt werden und auf der anderen Seite die Systeme auch entsprechend gestaltet werden, dass sie eben möglichst ausschließen, dass sie nicht konform oder dass sie quasi schadensvoll eingesetzt werden, sozusagen.", "start": 210.07, "end": 246.725 } ], "start": 210.07, "end": 246.725, "num_words": 86.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Generative KI hat einfach 'n ganz großes Potenzial für den öffentlichen Sektor.", "start": 247.265, "end": 252.485 }, { "text": "Da geht es ja darum, dass ich Inhalte generieren kann, also beispielsweise auch Texte, aber natürlich auch Audio-, Videobilder oder Coachnipsel, aber gerade Text ist ja 'n ganz wesentlicher Anwendungsfall für die öffentliche Verwaltung.", "start": 253.31999, "end": 270.175 }, { "text": "Das ist sehr textlastig, da müssen Anträge durchgegeben werden.", "start": 270.555, "end": 274.235 }, { "text": "Da wird auch sehr viel an Text produziert, Entscheidungsvorlagen, Beschlüsse, Bescheide werden erstellt.", "start": 274.235, "end": 282.27 }, { "text": "Es muss auch dieses Wissen, was ich für diese Vermerke mache, die ich brauche, das muss ich auch erst mal aus verschiedenen Dokumenten mir vielleicht zusammensuchen.", "start": 282.88998, "end": 291.47 } ], "start": 247.265, "end": 291.47, "num_words": 94.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ich muss gucken, wer muss beteiligt werden?", "start": 292.16998, "end": 294.27 }, { "text": "Das sind alles so kleine Anwendungsfälle, in denen generative KI mich gut unterstützen kann.", "start": 294.425, "end": 300.105 }, { "text": "Das heißt, dieses Potenzial ist im öffentlichen Sektor unglaublich groß und deswegen, ja, wäre es schade, wenn dieses Potenzial dann nicht auch genützt würde, denn der öffentliche Sektor steht ja gerade aus verschiedenen Richtungen unter Druck.", "start": 300.105, "end": 314.80002 }, { "text": "Unter anderem, dass viele Mitarbeitende kurz vor der Rente stehen, also Mitarbeitende auch wegfallen.", "start": 315.5, "end": 317.4657 }, { "text": "Das ist einfach auch 'n es einfach auch 'n großes Arbeitsaufkommen, gerade in speziellen Bereichen, gibt, wo dann wirklich die Bearbeitungszeiten teilweise sehr lang sind, weil die Mitarbeitenden hier überlastet sind.", "start": 317.4657, "end": 332.475 } ], "start": 292.16998, "end": 332.475, "num_words": 102.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und deshalb ist es sinnvoll, da generative KI einzusetzen.", "start": 332.82, "end": 336.28 }, { "text": "Und wenn man Kompetenzen dabei direkt mitdenkt, wenn ich eine Lösung für generative KI einführe, dass ich die Mitarbeitenden und deren Kompetenzen und Schulungen direkt mitdenke, die Mitarbeitenden mitnehme, dann schaffe ich auf Seiten der Mitarbeitenden einfach auch diese Sicherheit, dass sie das anwenden dürfen und wie und dass sie es auch können.", "start": 336.82, "end": 361.56 }, { "text": "Und das ist was ganz anderes als das, was wir am Anfang diskutiert haben.", "start": 361.62, "end": 364.74002 }, { "text": "Ich sag einfach mal, hier ist eine Lösung und guckt guckt doch einfach mal, was ihr damit anfangen könnt.", "start": 364.74002, "end": 371.145 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 371.305, "end": 371.54498 } ], "start": 332.82, "end": 371.54498, "num_words": 96.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das kann das kann zum Teil auch sinnvoll sein.", "start": 371.54498, "end": 374.185 }, { "text": "Man schmeißt sone Lösung einfach mal in eine Organisation rein und sagt, probiert doch mal aus und und guckt mal, wo's nützlich sein kann und was passiert damit.", "start": 374.185, "end": 381.88498 }, { "text": "Dann gibt's vielleicht einige, die darauf tatsächlich auch anspringen und genau, dann kann kann das vielleicht Probleme verursachen, wenn Unternehmensinterner hinterher in ja in irgendwelchen irgendwelchen öffentlichen Servern dann landen und auf der anderen Seite hat man natürlich die Mitarbeitenden, die dann Angst haben, was falsch zu machen und dann gar nicht damit damit arbeiten.", "start": 383.53, "end": 405.815 }, { "text": "Und dem kann man entgegenwirken, indem man einfach ganz feste Guidelines quasi schafft und eben son Kompetenz Framework mitdenkt und entwickelt und dadurch den Mitarbeitenden einfach eine Hilfestellung und Sicherheit an die Hand gibt.", "start": 406.515, "end": 421.57 }, { "text": "Wobei, was ich sagen wollte, so kleine Experimentierräume auch total sinnvoll sein können, einfach mal zu gucken, jetzt hab ich eine Lösung, aber vielleicht fällt mir ja dann ein, ach, bei meiner täglichen Arbeit in dem und dem Bereich könnte sowas vielleicht auch ganz sinnvoll sein, ne?", "start": 421.57, "end": 439.35 } ], "start": 371.54498, "end": 439.35, "num_words": 173.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und und kann ich das mal ausprobieren und und wie kann ich das dann gestalten?", "start": 439.35, "end": 442.88998 }, { "text": "Aber erst mal Sicherheit zu schaffen, nicht nur für die Mitarbeitenden, auch für das Unternehmen, dass ich da nicht in datenschutzrechtlich oder in anderer Hinsicht in irgendwelche Schwierigkeiten hineinlaufe.", "start": 443.51, "end": 455.785 } ], "start": 439.35, "end": 455.785, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, also son Rausholen aus der Grauzone.", "start": 456.085, "end": 458.565 }, { "text": "Aber es ist schön, dass Du auch noch mal gesagt hast, wo wirklich die Chancen liegen, weil wir ja jetzt sehr gekommen sind von den Risiken, auch von den juristischen regulatorischen Risiken und es gibt aber eben auch gewaltige Chancen.", "start": 458.565, "end": 471.21 }, { "text": "Welche Einsatzfelder kann man denn da unterscheiden?", "start": 472.15, "end": 474.97 }, { "text": "Also ihr nennt ja in dem Kompetenz Framework 3 Stück, Textgenerierung und Kommunikation ist 1 davon, dann Wissensmanagement und Informationserschließung und Interaktion mit Bürger*innen und Fallbearbeitung.", "start": 475.11002, "end": 487.83502 }, { "text": "Könntet ihr das noch mal aufschlüsseln, dass man sich auch wirklich was drunter vorstellen kann?", "start": 489.65503, "end": 493.33502 } ], "start": 456.085, "end": 493.33502, "num_words": 95.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also was für Anwendungen sind denn da denkbar?", "start": 493.33502, "end": 495.515 }, { "text": "Oder sind vielleicht auch existieren schon, ne?", "start": 495.65503, "end": 497.49503 }, { "text": "Es gibt ja auch schon Dinge.", "start": 497.49503, "end": 498.795 } ], "start": 493.33502, "end": 498.795, "num_words": 21.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, also bei der Informations, also wie Nicole vorhin schon gesagt hat, das geht eigentlich grundsätzlich oder son bisschen macht der der der Anwendungsfalltext in der Verwaltung natürlich aktuell am meisten Sinn, weil das einfach die größte Menge an Daten sind, die in Verwaltungen verwendet werden.", "start": 500.31998, "end": 514.065 }, { "text": "Wie Du grade gesagt hast, zur Informationserschließung und fürs Wissensmanagement gibt's eben die Möglichkeit, aus Dokumenten, die erst mal als Textdokument per se, so dann spricht da von unstrukturierten Daten, die erst mal unstrukturiert sind, quasi strukturierte Daten rauszuziehen.", "start": 514.065, "end": 531.02997 }, { "text": "Also gewisse Informationen, die in einem Fließtext, sag ich mal, beispielsweise vorhanden sind mithilfe von generativen KI Modellen, diese Informationen zu extrahieren und dann in weitere Prozess oder für weitere Entscheidungs- oder Prozessschritte verfügbar zu machen.", "start": 531.08997, "end": 546.51495 } ], "start": 500.31998, "end": 546.51495, "num_words": 121.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das ist quasi", "start": 546.575, "end": 547.135 } ], "start": 546.575, "end": 547.135, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "die Information so.", "start": 547.135, "end": 547.615 } ], "start": 547.135, "end": 547.615, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ist da son Beispiel dafür?", "start": 547.615, "end": 548.89496 }, { "text": "Noch son bisschen theoretisch.", "start": 548.89496, "end": 550.115 }, { "text": "Also ich glaube, gibt's nicht in Berlin irgendwie was, was dann aus den parlamentarischen Anfragen", "start": 550.255, "end": 554.355 } ], "start": 547.615, "end": 554.355, "num_words": 24.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, das", "start": 555.12, "end": 555.52 } ], "start": 555.12, "end": 555.52, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "wär Modul für parlamentarische Anfragen gibt's in Berlin, ne?", "start": 555.52, "end": 558.66003 } ], "start": 555.52, "end": 558.66003, "num_words": 9.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, das ist sozusagen sone Mischung zwischen Chatbot und Informationserschließung.", "start": 558.72003, "end": 562.42 }, { "text": "Öffentlich verfügbares Beispiel sogar, da kann man als Bürger, Bürgerin in Berlin einfach mal schauen, was die in in Berlin, Moment, ich muss mal ganz kurz gucken, das geht quasi Parlava dieses, genau.", "start": 563.84, "end": 578.40497 }, { "text": "Und da geht's vor allem die Hauptausschussvorgänge der Wahlperiode.", "start": 578.625, "end": 582.805 }, { "text": "Also quasi im Prinzip geht's geht's darum, als Bürgerin in Berlin mal zu gucken, was mein Abgeordnetenhaus so entschieden hat.", "start": 582.94495, "end": 591.24005 }, { "text": "Und dafür wurde 'n Chatbot entwickelt, der dann auf die jeweiligen Ausschussvorgänge dieser Wahlperiode zugreifen kann und dann die Fragen der Bürgerinnen, der Bürger, zum Beispiel, was wurde in Sachen Wohnraum oder in Sachen", "start": 591.46, "end": 604.925 } ], "start": 558.72003, "end": 604.925, "num_words": 106.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Parkplätze.", "start": 605.705, "end": 606.145 } ], "start": 605.705, "end": 606.145, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Parkplätze oder was auch immer", "start": 606.585, "end": 607.705 } ], "start": 606.585, "end": 607.705, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So, ja.", "start": 607.785, "end": 608.265 } ], "start": 607.785, "end": 608.265, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau von Berlin beschlossen.", "start": 608.505, "end": 610.045 }, { "text": "Und dann antwortet der Chatbot auf Basis dieser Daten.", "start": 610.105, "end": 613.465 }, { "text": "Das heißt, er anders als jetzt vielleicht andere öffentliche verfügbare Chatbots, die nicht auf bestimmte Daten trainiert sind, nutzt er nur die Informationen, die er aus diesen Dokumenten ziehen kann.", "start": 613.465, "end": 625.18 } ], "start": 608.505, "end": 625.18, "num_words": 43.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 625.18, "end": 625.42004 } ], "start": 625.18, "end": 625.42004, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Man spricht da von sogenannten Chatbots, also.", "start": 625.42004, "end": 629.22504 }, { "text": "Das heißt, die ziehen wirklich die Informationen, die sie dann für ihre Antworten nutzen, nur aus einem bestimmten Set an an an Dokumenten und Informationen.", "start": 629.92505, "end": 638.265 } ], "start": 625.42004, "end": 638.265, "num_words": 32.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ich erspare mir das dann eben als Bürgerin, mich durch die ganzen Protokolle zu Wühlen von sämtlichen Ausschusssitzungen und so weiter Genau, krieg.", "start": 638.565, "end": 645.62 }, { "text": "Der erschließt es für mich, ne?", "start": 645.66, "end": 647.26 } ], "start": 638.565, "end": 647.26, "num_words": 29.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau und krieg's quasi son bisschen strukturierter aufbereitet, genau.", "start": 647.26, "end": 651.74 }, { "text": "Aber das, was halt wichtig zu wissen ist, ist, dass generative KI oder die Technologie, die hinter generativer KI steckt, auch über Chatbots, das ist so das klassische Beispiel, das einem immer gleich einfällt, aber es geht auch über Chatbots oder kann auch über Chatbots hinausgehen.", "start": 651.74, "end": 666.635 }, { "text": "Und das war das, was ich vorhin meinte.", "start": 666.695, "end": 668.375 }, { "text": "Also quasi generative KI kann auch helfen, eben trotzdem beispielsweise eine Tabelle aus 'nem Text zu machen, ne.", "start": 668.375, "end": 678.12 }, { "text": "Das war das, was ich vorhin meinte.", "start": 678.12, "end": 679.39996 } ], "start": 647.26, "end": 679.39996, "num_words": 88.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und das ist das ist das, was in Verwaltungen und in in Verwaltungsprozessen einfach auch sehr, sehr viel Arbeitserleichterung schaffen.", "start": 679.39996, "end": 687.8 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 687.8, "end": 688.215 } ], "start": 679.39996, "end": 688.215, "num_words": 21.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 688.53503, "end": 688.85504 }, { "text": "Also sowas wie, gut, ich hab's jetzt mehr 'n literarisches Beispiel, aber man könnte sagen, machen wir mal eine Tabelle auf der Suche nach der verlorenen Zeit.", "start": 688.85504, "end": 697.11505 }, { "text": "Wie oft kommt das Wort Zeit vor und wie ist der Anteil von weiblichen und männlichen Protagonisten?", "start": 697.73505, "end": 702.395 }, { "text": "So was könnte man machen, ne?", "start": 703.24005, "end": 704.62006 } ], "start": 688.53503, "end": 704.62006, "num_words": 51.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja oder deutlich auch komplexer, also dadurch, dass die Sprachmodelle ja etwas höheres etwas höheres Sprachverständnis haben oder ein höheres Konzeptverständnis als jetzt klassisches, einfach nur Wörter zählen", "start": 704.84, "end": 717.4 } ], "start": 704.84, "end": 717.4, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "zum Beispiel", "start": 717.4, "end": 717.64 } ], "start": 717.4, "end": 717.64, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das stimmt, das zu einfach.", "start": 717.80005, "end": 719.055 } ], "start": 717.80005, "end": 719.055, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Kann man quasi auch son bisschen schon mehr Informationen, die man als als Leser als Leserin von 'nem Text quasi durch sich erschließen rausziehen würde, kann man quasi auch schon mithilfe von generativer KI dann rausziehen.", "start": 719.055, "end": 732.575 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 732.575, "end": 733.075 } ], "start": 719.055, "end": 733.075, "num_words": 37.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 733.56, "end": 733.72 }, { "text": "Also wir", "start": 733.72, "end": 733.95996 } ], "start": 733.56, "end": 733.95996, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "haben jetzt gesprochen über Dinge, die es schon gibt.", "start": 733.95996, "end": 736.54 } ], "start": 733.95996, "end": 736.54, "num_words": 9.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 736.68, "end": 737.18 } ], "start": 736.68, "end": 737.18, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Was könntet ihr euch denn für zukünftige Anwendungsfelder vorstellen, die ihr euch eben vorstellen könnt, weil ihr euch mit dem Thema intensiv befasst habt, aber die sich so jemand in der Behörde, für den ist es vielleicht noch total utopisch, dass so was jemals klappen könnte.", "start": 737.48, "end": 750.665 } ], "start": 737.48, "end": 750.665, "num_words": 46.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, also das ist, da wird's natürlich dann auch schnell kritisch und auch so, dass man sich als Gesellschaft generell überlegen muss, was wollen wir eigentlich von unserem Staat?", "start": 751.285, "end": 761.35004 } ], "start": 751.285, "end": 761.35004, "num_words": 29.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, weil", "start": 761.35004, "end": 761.91003 } ], "start": 761.35004, "end": 761.91003, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "nicht als was machbar ist, muss ja auch", "start": 761.91003, "end": 763.67 } ], "start": 761.91003, "end": 763.67, "num_words": 8.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, genau, weil also da ist grade zum Beispiel die große Diskussion darum, wie inwiefern sollten immer Mitarbeiter, Mitarbeiterinnen der Behörde sozusagen den letzten den die letzte Entscheidung tragen, letztendlich die Entscheidung.", "start": 763.91003, "end": 778.46497 }, { "text": "Man man spricht davon Human oversite, also quasi menschliche Aufsicht in in solchen KI Prozessen weiterhin behalten.", "start": 778.765, "end": 786.765 }, { "text": "Aber wenn man das jetzt mal auf der beiseitelässt und sagt, es gäbe die Möglichkeit, möglichst fehlerfrei oder möglichst so, dass es möglichst eine geringe Fehlerquote hat, die Prozesse so weitgehend zu automatisieren, dann könnte man ganz utopisch gesprochen davon ausgehen, dass der Großteil der Behördeninteraktionen, die Bürgerinnen haben, theoretisch mithilfe von Chatbots automatisiert werden können, weil es geht größtenteils, wie Nicole gesagt hat, Text oder so Informationsaustausch und da kann eben generative KI ziemlich viel.", "start": 786.765, "end": 826.05 } ], "start": 763.91003, "end": 826.05, "num_words": 125.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, also Text und Daten und wir haben ja auch in dem in der Papier haben wir das auch noch mal ganz klar gemacht, dass wir uns generative KI Systeme angucken, die sone Assistenzfunktion haben oder wo es eine Teilautomatisierung geht.", "start": 826.05, "end": 840.185 }, { "text": "Das heißt, da sind auch immer noch mitarbeitende Menschen beteiligt, das nennt man dann Human in the Loop.", "start": 840.185, "end": 847.245 }, { "text": "Also in diesem ganzen Prozess werden zwar Dinge vielleicht vorbereitet, aufbereitet, Texte natürlich können das auch Daten sein, also tatsächlich Zahlen, aber letztlich sind dann sind dann doch immer Mitarbeitende beteiligt und die treffen die Entscheidung, sind dann doch immer Mitarbeitende beteiligt und die treffen die Entscheidung.", "start": 847.49, "end": 863.53503 }, { "text": "Aber klar, gerade wenn's wenn's Prozesse geht, wo beispielsweise Bürgerinnen und Bürger einen Anspruch haben, wo sie und wenn man dann noch weiterdenkt, das ist ja schon fast utopisch, wenn wir dann die Registermodernisierung geschafft haben, tatsächlich die Register verknüpft sind und man darauf auch zugreifen kann, dann könnte man sich ja schon denken, keine Ahnung, Elterngeld, dass ich da vielleicht ja doch, muss ich noch sagen, wie lange möchte ich in Elternzeit gehen, aber alles andere, was habe ich denn überhaupt für Ansprüche und was habe ich denn überhaupt verdient, das könnte ja dann alles automatisch passieren und dann könnte ich ja auch von generativer KI einen netten formulierten Bescheid erhalten, dass ich dann 'n Anspruch auf Elterngeld habe.", "start": 864.155, "end": 917.955 } ], "start": 826.05, "end": 917.955, "num_words": 226.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, das hat mir auch eine eigene Folge dazu, wollte ich an der Stelle Genau.", "start": 918.495, "end": 921.775 }, { "text": "Ergänzen zur Automatisierung von Verwaltungsverfahren und in Österreich wird es schon gemacht, also bei dem Kindergeld, glaube ich, Kindergeld ist, genau, die machen das schon.", "start": 921.935, "end": 930.48 }, { "text": "Also soweit denke ich es nicht und wir haben eine ganze Folge dazu, kann man nachhören.", "start": 930.48, "end": 933.7 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 934.24, "end": 934.72003 } ], "start": 918.495, "end": 934.72003, "num_words": 57.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau und wenn ich da kurz noch ergänzen darf, Nicole, ich glaub, der große Vorteil von generativer KI versus, sagen wir mal, klassischer Automatisierung mithilfe von beispielsweise Eingabeformularen et cetera, die Bürgerinnen ausfüllen müssen, liegt natürlich darin, dass generative KI natürlich sprachlich mit den Bürgerinnen interagieren kann.", "start": 934.72003, "end": 956.11 }, { "text": "Und idealerweise, das da gibt's auch schon Beispiele dafür, dass die generative KI, nachdem wie gut das zugrunde liegende Sprachmodell ist, sich auch sprachlich so anpassen kann, dass es für die Bürgerinnen und Bürger einfacher wird, die Behörden Fachsprache, sag ich mal, zu verstehen und auch dann wirklich da vielleicht zu kommunizieren, was tatsächlich die Bedarfe sind.", "start": 956.17, "end": 977.7 }, { "text": "Und damit auch zu 'ner leichteren Verständigung zwischen, sag ich mal, Behördensprech und Bürgerinnensprech.", "start": 977.94, "end": 983.0 } ], "start": 934.72003, "end": 983.0, "num_words": 118.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also son Thema bei jeder Freiheit, ja.", "start": 983.46, "end": 985.62 } ], "start": 983.46, "end": 985.62, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Nicht nur auch Fremdsprache.", "start": 985.62, "end": 987.08 }, { "text": "Auch fremdsprachlich, also auch Übersetzung ist natürlich auch 'n super Anwendungsfall für generative KI und genau, wenn ich den Deutschen vielleicht nicht so mächtig bin, ist das natürlich auch toll, wenn dann dadurch noch mal Hürden abgebaut werden können im Behördenkontakt Und dieses, dass ich natürlich sprachlich damit interagieren kann, ist natürlich auch für die Verwaltungsmitarbeitenden ganz relevant.", "start": 988.82, "end": 1010.43 }, { "text": "Also damit umziehen zu können mit diesen Tools, muss ich eben nicht in der Lage sein, zu programmieren, sondern", "start": 1010.43, "end": 1017.285 } ], "start": 985.62, "end": 1017.285, "num_words": 81.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "ich kann halt einfach natürlich sprachlich irgendwelche Eingaben machen, Fragen stellen et cetera.", "start": 1017.285, "end": 1022.745 }, { "text": "Ihr zitiert in eurer Veröffentlichung auch eine Unternehmensbefragung vom Statistischen Bundesamt.", "start": 1023.125, "end": 1028.825 }, { "text": "Da wird fehlendes Wissen mit 71 Prozent als Topgrund dafür genannt, warum KI in Unternehmen nicht genutzt wird.", "start": 1029.5801, "end": 1037.12 }, { "text": "Das ist jetzt eine Untersuchung, die bezieht sich wie gesagt auf Unternehmen.", "start": 1037.5, "end": 1040.56 }, { "text": "Wenn ihr jetzt schätzen müsstet, wie ist es denn bei der Verwaltung?", "start": 1040.9401, "end": 1043.74 } ], "start": 1017.285, "end": 1043.74, "num_words": 66.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ist da der Prozentsatz für vielen das Wissen ähnlich hoch?", "start": 1043.74, "end": 1046.9049 } ], "start": 1043.74, "end": 1046.9049, "num_words": 10.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ich glaub ja, das lässt sich auf die Verwaltung übertragen, weil das ist das, was natürlich bei dem, was wir grade, was immer son bisschen durch durchgeklungen ist in dem ganzen Gespräch bis jetzt auch, dass die Verantwortung und das Risiko, das natürlich in der Verwaltung besteht, wenn man solche Systeme einsetzt, über Bürgerbefinden irgendwie zu entscheiden beispielsweise, ist natürlich gegebenenfalls noch mal höher als im Privatsektor, ne.", "start": 1046.9049, "end": 1073.805 }, { "text": "Im Privatsektor geht's quasi auch darum, Datenschutz einzuhalten und so weiter.", "start": 1073.805, "end": 1078.4451 }, { "text": "Aber aber der Rechtsanspruch, dem ein Bürger gegenüber dem Staat hat, ist natürlich 'n ganz anderer und noch mal viel umfänglicher als der, den ein ein Kunde, eine Kundin gegenüber einem Unternehmen hat.", "start": 1078.4451, "end": 1093.27 }, { "text": "Deswegen glaub ich sogar, dass die Zahlen im öffentlichen Sektor vielleicht sogar eher in der Richtung, also eher höher liegen.", "start": 1093.89, "end": 1099.5149 } ], "start": 1046.9049, "end": 1099.5149, "num_words": 132.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, weil man auch mehr Wissen braucht sozusagen.", "start": 1099.5149, "end": 1101.7549 }, { "text": "Deswegen Weil", "start": 1101.7549, "end": 1102.315 } ], "start": 1099.5149, "end": 1102.315, "num_words": 10.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "man mehr Wissen braucht und mehr mehr Unsicherheit hat und mehr sichergehen muss, dass das auch wirklich alles korrekt und nach rechtlichen Vorschriften funktioniert.", "start": 1102.315, "end": 1112.55 }, { "text": "Und da werden wir wahrscheinlich jetzt dann gleich noch drauf eingehen.", "start": 1112.61, "end": 1114.8501 }, { "text": "Das kommt halt braucht nicht nur Wissen bei den Nutzerinnen, sondern eben auch bei den Techniker Technikerinnen und bei den Entscheiderinnen.", "start": 1114.8501, "end": 1120.87 } ], "start": 1102.315, "end": 1120.87, "num_words": 56.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 1121.0901, "end": 1121.5901 }, { "text": "Und ihr habt's ja also Kompetenz Framework genannt und nicht Wissens Framework.", "start": 1121.65, "end": 1125.6749 } ], "start": 1121.0901, "end": 1125.6749, "num_words": 13.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1126.455, "end": 1126.7749 } ], "start": 1126.455, "end": 1126.7749, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also dieser Kompetenzbegriff ist ja mehr, als was man sich jetzt so unmittelbar vorstellt und was man vielleicht in Fortbildungen vermitteln könnte.", "start": 1126.7749, "end": 1134.855 }, { "text": "Es ist eben mehr als Wissen,", "start": 1134.855, "end": 1136.235 } ], "start": 1126.7749, "end": 1136.235, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "ne?", "start": 1136.75, "end": 1136.91 }, { "text": "Genau, also Kompetenz, da orientieren wir uns an der OECD.", "start": 1136.91, "end": 1140.4501 }, { "text": "Da wird eigentlich gesagt, Kompetenz ermöglicht es, eine Aufgabe oder Aktivität in einem spezifischen Kontext erfolgreich zu erledigen.", "start": 1140.5901, "end": 1148.13 }, { "text": "Also es geht quasi einen konkreten Nutzen 1 Kompetenz für eine bestimmte Aufgabe.", "start": 1148.3501, "end": 1153.805 }, { "text": "Und was das aber bedeutet, ist, dass es eben über das Wissen hinausgeht, weil erfolgreich irgendwas bewältigen zu können, brauch ich nicht nur das Wissen, sondern ich muss es auch dieses Wissen auch anwenden können und ich brauch und das ist auch im im Kontext von generativer KI sehr wichtig, das Mindset dahinter, also die Haltung, beispielsweise offen, aber kritisch mit solchen Systemen umgehen zu können.", "start": 1153.805, "end": 1178.92 } ], "start": 1136.75, "end": 1178.92, "num_words": 108.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay, dann Das heißt, das könnte auch total individuell und charakterabhängig auch sein, oder?", "start": 1179.265, "end": 1184.225 }, { "text": "Also je nachdem, welcher Mensch da vor einem sitzt, der braucht vielleicht andere Kompetenzfelder, die bei ihm entwickelt werden müssten.", "start": 1184.225, "end": 1191.6849 } ], "start": 1179.265, "end": 1191.6849, "num_words": 34.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, ja, das kann charakterabhängig sein, wobei da würde ich sagen, grade im im im Bereich von Mindset wird's natürlich dann son bisschen auch schwierig dann zu sagen, so inwiefern können wir das tatsächlich beeinflussen?", "start": 1192.4501, "end": 1204.9501 }, { "text": "Wir versuchen in unserem Kompetenz Framework Framework sozusagen den Idealzustand, was wir sehen und was wir auch aus der Literatur gefunden haben, was wichtig ist.", "start": 1205.01, "end": 1212.9751 }, { "text": "Aber individuell können natürlich bestimmte Bereiche unter ausgeprägt sein oder über ausgeprägt sein und die muss man dann entsprechend anpassen.", "start": 1213.435, "end": 1220.895 } ], "start": 1192.4501, "end": 1220.895, "num_words": 80.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, weil ich kann durch die organisationalen Regeln, auch durch die Organisationskultur, kann ich natürlich dieses diesen Mindset auch 'n bisschen beeinflussen.", "start": 1221.14, "end": 1232.04 }, { "text": "Also beim Mindset geht's ja auch beispielsweise Offenheit, Experimentierfreude.", "start": 1232.8201, "end": 1238.265 }, { "text": "Das kann ich ja auch 'n bisschen vorleben und auch psychologische Sicherheit schaffen beispielsweise, damit meine Mitarbeitenden dann auch in der Lage sind, vielleicht diese Experimentierfreude auch auszuleben.", "start": 1239.8451, "end": 1253.05 }, { "text": "Auf der anderen Seite kann ich durch die Organisationskultur auch eher dazu beitragen, dass eben vielleicht keine so große Offenheit herrscht.", "start": 1253.67, "end": 1261.61 }, { "text": "Also ich kann Es ist natürlich schon auch definitiv individuell beeinflusst, aber durch die organisationalen Regeln und die Organisationskultur, also wie's dann gelebt wird, kann man das durchaus beeinflussen.", "start": 1262.0701, "end": 1274.265 } ], "start": 1221.14, "end": 1274.265, "num_words": 109.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, okay.", "start": 1275.045, "end": 1276.265 }, { "text": "Jetzt ist ja Kompetenzerwerb nichts Neues, ne?", "start": 1276.64, "end": 1279.4401 }, { "text": "Wir leben in 1 Welt des lebenslangen Lernens.", "start": 1279.4401, "end": 1281.9401 }, { "text": "Mitarbeitende haben vielleicht gerade gelernt, wie man Dinge in die Cloud hochlädt, wie man aus der Cloud arbeitet oder irgendwas.", "start": 1282.9601, "end": 1288.1001 }, { "text": "Aber was ist denn grundsätzlich anders an der Einführung der Nutzung von generativer KI im Vergleich zur Einführung, sagen wir mal, jetzt einen neuen Softwarelösung?", "start": 1288.9601, "end": 1297.0449 } ], "start": 1275.045, "end": 1297.0449, "num_words": 62.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Es ist ja schon 'n ganz anderer Ansatz, oder?", "start": 1298.065, "end": 1300.8049 } ], "start": 1298.065, "end": 1300.8049, "num_words": 9.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, generative KI auf Basis von großen Sprachmodellen, die wir sprechen da von offenen Systemen oder die eine offenen Nutzung zulassen, ne, also wo ich quasi theoretisch alles damit machen könnte.", "start": 1301.4249, "end": 1312.22 }, { "text": "Da ist natürlich die nötigen Kompetenzen dafür, dann auch nur diese Systeme dann oder diese Systeme dann entsprechend anzuwenden, deutlich höher als, sag ich mal, in 'ner Software, die mir nur eine Eingabe von bestimmten Informationen ermöglicht und diese auch nur auf eine bestimmte Art verarbeitet.", "start": 1312.76, "end": 1329.4149 } ], "start": 1301.4249, "end": 1329.4149, "num_words": 77.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1329.7949, "end": 1330.2949 }, { "text": "Diese Mensch Maschine Interaktion ist auch irgendwie anders, ne?", "start": 1330.595, "end": 1334.69 }, { "text": "Ich finde, es fühlt sich anders an, dass man irgendwie nicht so klar ist, okay, bist Du jetzt der Experte, bin ich der Experte?", "start": 1334.69, "end": 1340.45 }, { "text": "Also irgendwie fühlt sich's 'n bisschen gleichberechtigter an als bei so Sachen, die so eindeutig einfach Werkzeuge zur Arbeit sind.", "start": 1340.45, "end": 1348.915 } ], "start": 1329.7949, "end": 1348.915, "num_words": 54.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, also je nachdem, wie frei und offen ich sie nutzen kann, werden dadurch natürlich auch höhere Anforderungen daran gestellt, was ich dann mit den Ergebnissen mache.", "start": 1348.915, "end": 1359.255 }, { "text": "Also dass ich auch in der Lage bin, diesen Output, den ich dann da habe, Zusammenfassung, Empfehlungen, Klassifizierung, Sonstiges, auch kritisch bewerten zu können und mir auch bewusst zu sein, ja, also auf den ersten Blick kann diese Lösung sehr, sehr viel, aber es gibt halt auch gewisse Grenzen im Umgang mit generativer KI, die mir da bewusst sein müssen.", "start": 1359.5801, "end": 1384.7949 }, { "text": "Genau, ich kann das 'n bisschen eingrenzen durch durch solche Rex, wie Max eben schon gesagt hatte, aber dass zum Beispiel es auch sein kann, dass da irgendwas halluziniert wird, was vielleicht sich eigentlich nicht so ergeben hat aus aus den Informationen, die zugrunde lagen.", "start": 1385.5901, "end": 1399.6653 }, { "text": "Also dass ich auch in der Lage bin, eben, dass ich die zugrunde lagen.", "start": 1399.6653, "end": 1402.625 }, { "text": "Also dass ich auch in der Lage bin, eben diesen Output damit verantwortungsvoll umzugehen und den auch Und die Qualität einschätzen zu können und auch zu wissen, wie kann ich damit umgehen?", "start": 1403.3251, "end": 1415.1499 } ], "start": 1348.915, "end": 1415.1499, "num_words": 178.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wo muss ich vielleicht genau hingucken und inwieweit kann mir das tatsächlich weiterhelfen?", "start": 1415.69, "end": 1420.2699 }, { "text": "Also, das ist schon eine höhere Anforderung, als wenn ich jetzt ein ein Programm nutze.", "start": 1421.69, "end": 1426.2699 } ], "start": 1415.69, "end": 1426.2699, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja und muss vielleicht auch anders vermittelt werden dann letztendlich ins Unternehmen, also in die Behörde rein.", "start": 1426.8251, "end": 1432.125 } ], "start": 1426.8251, "end": 1432.125, "num_words": 17.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Es muss anders vermittelt werden und das muss auch, also darin liegt dann sozusagen die Kehrseite dieser natürlich sprachlichen Interaktion mit solchen Systemen, weil das natürlich erst mal überzeugend klingt oder überzeugend klingen kann, was da rauskommt.", "start": 1432.265, "end": 1445.79 }, { "text": "Und das heißt, dass die Mitarbeiterinnen dann nicht der Versuchung verfallen, das dann einfach so direkt zu übernehmen und zu sagen, ja, das wird schon passen, die Maschine hat das so gesagt, sondern dass es eben auch 'n Bewusstsein dafür gibt, wie kommt denn die Maschine überhaupt zu dem Ergebnis und wie hat vielleicht auch das, was ich vorher mit der Maschine besprochen hab in dem gleichen Chat beispielsweise, Einfluss darauf eventuell und hab ich vielleicht die Maschine durch meine Eingaben auch in eine bestimmte Richtung gelenkt oder muss ich sie in eine bestimmte Richtung lenken?", "start": 1445.79, "end": 1478.91 }, { "text": "Man spricht da dann, es gibt da auch so schon Ansätze, die dann quasi von Metathinking sprechen, also nicht mehr quasi von vom ganz konkreten am Anwendungsfall oder an an der konkreten Fragestellung, sondern eigentlich mehr, wie gehe ich sone Fragestellung ganz generell eigentlich an und wie wie versuche ich in sonem Prozess, vielleicht mit 'ner generativen KI, auf eine Lösung zu kommen?", "start": 1478.91, "end": 1503.38 }, { "text": "Also es wird quasi die Kompetenzen gehen son Stück weit auf eine höhere Ebene vielleicht sogar.", "start": 1503.38, "end": 1508.74 } ], "start": 1432.265, "end": 1508.74, "num_words": 212.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, okay.", "start": 1508.74, "end": 1509.56 }, { "text": "Klingt anspruchsvoll.", "start": 1510.5, "end": 1511.4 }, { "text": "Inwieweit kann denn dieses Kompetenz Framework dabei helfen?", "start": 1511.78, "end": 1514.9 }, { "text": "Also als ihr das erarbeitet habt, was habt ihr euch da vorgestellt?", "start": 1514.9, "end": 1518.915 }, { "text": "Für wen kann das hilfreich sein?", "start": 1518.915, "end": 1520.515 } ], "start": 1508.74, "end": 1520.515, "num_words": 30.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wie kann man's nutzen?", "start": 1520.515, "end": 1521.5751 } ], "start": 1520.515, "end": 1521.5751, "num_words": 4.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Es richtet sich vor allem an die Personen, die damit befasst sind, zu entscheiden, ob und wie KI eingesetzt wird in der Organisation und an die Personen, die eben mit dem Kompetenzaufbau in der Organisation befasst sind, nämlich genau in diesem Zuge dann auch zu überlegen, was für eine Lösung haben wir denn hier?", "start": 1522.755, "end": 1548.115 }, { "text": "Genau, was hat die beispielsweise für eine Risikoklasse?", "start": 1548.815, "end": 1551.075 }, { "text": "Was hat die für einen Anwendungsfall?", "start": 1551.375, "end": 1552.595 }, { "text": "Was soll damit überhaupt gemacht werden können, was vielleicht auch gerade nicht?", "start": 1554.095, "end": 1558.275 }, { "text": "Und was bedeutet das dann auch im gleichen Schritt für die Kompetenzen für die Mitarbeitenden der Organisation?", "start": 1558.655, "end": 1565.47 } ], "start": 1522.755, "end": 1565.47, "num_words": 97.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also es soll sone Orientierung geben, sone Hilfestellung, dass einfach da sich einen Überblick zu verschaffen und zu überlegen, wie wollen wir es machen?", "start": 1566.41, "end": 1578.105 }, { "text": "Was braucht es dafür?", "start": 1578.165, "end": 1579.465 } ], "start": 1566.41, "end": 1579.465, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, es ist quasi Es geht 'n ganzheitlichen Blick auf dieses Thema.", "start": 1580.405, "end": 1584.105 }, { "text": "Wenn wir generative KI in der Verwaltung einsetzen wollen, haben wir nämlich eigentlich 2 Stellschrauben, wenn man so sagen will, den effektiven und sicheren Einsatz sicherzustellen.", "start": 1584.485, "end": 1596.03 }, { "text": "Einerseits die Gestaltung des Systems und andererseits die Anwendung 1 Systems.", "start": 1596.73, "end": 1600.3301 }, { "text": "Und bei der Gestaltung des Systems geht's dann darum, die Entscheiderinnen und die Technikerinnen, die über solche Systeme entscheiden, über den Einsatz entscheiden und den auch dann bereitstellen oder die Systeme implementieren, dass die eben über die ganzen Grenzen, Möglichkeiten Bescheid wissen, wie ich solche Systeme am besten implementieren kann.", "start": 1600.3301, "end": 1620.7999 }, { "text": "Und auf der Nutzung des Systems geht's natürlich die Nutzer und die Nutzerinnen, die dann", "start": 1621.02, "end": 1625.1 } ], "start": 1580.405, "end": 1625.1, "num_words": 114.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Die auch Bürger*innen sein können am", "start": 1625.34, "end": 1627.02 } ], "start": 1625.34, "end": 1627.02, "num_words": 6.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Die auch Bürger*innen sein können, wobei wir da son bisschen mit unserem Kompetenz Framework natürlich uns primär auf die gehöreninternen Mitarbeiterinnen, beispielsweise Fachexpertin, Fachbearbeiterinnen et cetera fokussieren, weil die Bürgerinnen und Bürger, die werden bestimmt auch die die generative KI Kompetenzen sind, auf der Seite auch zu schulen, aber das geht son bisschen über das hinaus, was eine Behörde intern leisten kann, natürlich.", "start": 1627.26, "end": 1653.9501 } ], "start": 1627.26, "end": 1653.9501, "num_words": 63.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 1654.17, "end": 1654.67 }, { "text": "Das noch mal deutlich zu sagen, es muss nicht in 1 Behörde jeder alles können.", "start": 1654.9701, "end": 1660.575 }, { "text": "Also es müssen nicht alle Beamtinnen im gleichen Maß zur KI Experten werden.", "start": 1660.575, "end": 1664.515 } ], "start": 1654.17, "end": 1664.515, "num_words": 29.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, einfach nur Kompetenzen zu Schulen ganz generell für alle in 1 Organisation macht wenig Sinn, sondern die Kompetenzschulung muss immer mit 1 konkreten Gen KI Lösung einhergehen.", "start": 1664.8151, "end": 1676.84 } ], "start": 1664.8151, "end": 1676.84, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also wir wissen, wir haben eine Anwendung und dann an der Anwendung vermitteln wir", "start": 1677.2999, "end": 1680.98 } ], "start": 1677.2999, "end": 1680.98, "num_words": 14.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "An der Anwendung vermitteln, genau.", "start": 1681.22, "end": 1682.98 }, { "text": "Und da haben wir wir unterscheiden auch noch mal vom über Also es gibt Basiskompetenzen, da sagen wir, okay, das ist das sind quasi Grundverständnis zu generativer KI und Datenverarbeitung und so weiter.", "start": 1682.98, "end": 1692.565 }, { "text": "Das ist gut, wenn das alle wissen, auch das, was wir anfangs besprochen haben, auch die Potenziale zu sehen in der Organisation, ne.", "start": 1692.565, "end": 1700.245 }, { "text": "Dafür braucht's gewisse Basiskompetenzen.", "start": 1700.245, "end": 1701.7849 }, { "text": "Die haben wir auch aufgeführt in unserem Framework, aber alles, was über diese Basiskompetenzen hinausgeht, sagen wir, macht nur Sinn, wenn man's mit Blick auf eine spezifische generative KI Lösung schult.", "start": 1703.07, "end": 1715.145 } ], "start": 1681.22, "end": 1715.145, "num_words": 96.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also wenn ich quasi eine Idee hab, wie soll diese wie soll diese Lösung aussehen ungefähr und von wem soll sie genutzt werden?", "start": 1715.145, "end": 1721.865 }, { "text": "Erst dann macht's Sinn quasi, gezielt zu schulen, weil dann weiß ich, was fürn Freiheitsgrad, also wie offen ist ist das System gestaltet?", "start": 1721.865, "end": 1730.4299 }, { "text": "Was kann der Nutzer, die Nutzerin mit dem System machen?", "start": 1730.49, "end": 1733.47 }, { "text": "Und weiß auch das Risiko, das quasi in diesem Anwendungskontext bestehen kann.", "start": 1733.77, "end": 1738.4099 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1738.4099, "end": 1738.8099 } ], "start": 1715.145, "end": 1738.8099, "num_words": 69.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 1738.8099, "end": 1739.3099 }, { "text": "Kannst Du noch einmal die Basiskenntnisse so ausführen kurz?", "start": 1739.45, "end": 1743.9149 }, { "text": "Also ich nehm an, Datenschutz gehört da dazu, Wissen und Barrierefreiheit, solche Sachen, ne, sind da drin.", "start": 1743.9149, "end": 1749.595 } ], "start": 1738.8099, "end": 1749.595, "num_words": 27.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also, genau, es geht primär geht's darum, quasi erst mal digitale Bedienkompetenz, also sich überhaupt mit digitalen Anwendungen zurechtzufinden.", "start": 1749.595, "end": 1757.5 }, { "text": "Datenkompetenz sind erst mal die ganz grundlegenden Sachen, die unabhängig von generativer KI sind und dann die generativen, KI bezogenen Kompetenzen.", "start": 1757.5, "end": 1767.5 }, { "text": "Da geht's darum, eben zu wissen, was wofür kann ich generative KI einsetzen und wofür gegebenenfalls nicht?", "start": 1767.5, "end": 1774.635 }, { "text": "Also von Texterstellung, Bildgenerierung, Übersetzungen, Transkriptionen und so weiter und das Wissen über die Funktionsweise.", "start": 1774.635, "end": 1783.34 }, { "text": "Also wie wird das eigentlich gemacht?", "start": 1783.64, "end": 1785.72 } ], "start": 1749.595, "end": 1785.72, "num_words": 78.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wie funktioniert son generatives KI System ganz generell?", "start": 1785.72, "end": 1789.98 }, { "text": "Also jetzt nicht im Detail, sondern einfach nur 'n Grundverständnis davon zu haben, dass der Output eben auf Basis statistischer Kenntnisse sozusagen aus gewissen Trainingsdaten Ja.", "start": 1790.12, "end": 1800.825 }, { "text": "Erzeugt wird.", "start": 1800.905, "end": 1801.8049 } ], "start": 1785.72, "end": 1801.8049, "num_words": 36.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und wenn Du jetzt, mir leuchtet das total ein, dass es Sinn macht, das am praktischen Beispiel dann zu entwickeln, die einzelnen Kompetenzen, aber ist es nicht auch 'n Stück weit sone Henne Ei Geschichte, dass Leute, die ja gar nicht wissen, so richtig, was man damit machen kann, sich dann Sachen ausdenken müssen, mit denen man dann die Kompetenzen schult?", "start": 1803.145, "end": 1821.89 }, { "text": "Also weißt Du, was ich meine?", "start": 1821.89, "end": 1823.19 }, { "text": "Also wie kommt man überhaupt die Anwendungen, ne, wenn jetzt", "start": 1823.25, "end": 1825.7521 } ], "start": 1803.145, "end": 1825.7521, "num_words": 77.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, genau, genau.", "start": 1825.8893, "end": 1826.3007 } ], "start": 1825.8893, "end": 1826.3007, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Kompetenzen noch nicht so flächendeckend da sind?", "start": 1826.4379, "end": 1827.9349 } ], "start": 1826.4379, "end": 1827.9349, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, also deswegen sagen wir ja, diese Basiskompetenzen sind sollen genau diesen diesen diesen Problemen vorbeugen, dass wir quasi sagen, eine dieses gewisse Grundverständnis muss da sein und dann gehen wir quasi von den Basiskompetenzen, die idealerweise möglichst breit geschult werden, eben die Potenziale auch in der Organisation aufzudecken.", "start": 1827.9349, "end": 1847.2301 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1847.4501, "end": 1847.9501 }, { "text": "Wenn's dann darüber hinausgeht, geht's dann quasi in die Entscheiderinnenkompetenzen, die dann konkreter wissen, okay, was was sind jetzt beispielsweise die strategischen Voraussetzungen, die Risiken, betriebswirtschaftlichen Gesichtspunkte und so weiter, um's dann auch konkret in Projekten umsetzen zu können.", "start": 1848.0901, "end": 1866.0851 }, { "text": "Die Techniker, die dann die technische Seite betreuen und zum Schluss dann auch die Nutzerinnen, die dann quasi diese Systeme anwenden.", "start": 1866.0851, "end": 1873.37 } ], "start": 1827.9349, "end": 1873.37, "num_words": 110.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und jetzt mal also von der Idee dieses Kompetenz Frameworks zurück in die Praxis.", "start": 1875.1901, "end": 1880.3301 }, { "text": "Also diese Basiskompetenzen, wo ihr sagt, das ist so der erste Schritt und die Grundlage, wie weit ist das denn?", "start": 1880.55, "end": 1888.1151 }, { "text": "Also ist da schon der Lernprozess in Gang gekommen in den Behörden?", "start": 1888.1151, "end": 1892.295 } ], "start": 1875.1901, "end": 1892.295, "num_words": 46.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Teilweise ja, weil in den Basiskompetenzen stecken natürlich auch Digitalkompetenzen ganz allgemein drin und die werden auch schon vermittelt.", "start": 1893.0751, "end": 1901.25 }, { "text": "Inwiefern generative KI Kompetenzen, also spezifisch auf generative KI und beispielsweise die Nutzungsmöglichkeiten und die Grenzen und so weiter, da ist es vermutlich, wir haben da keine belastbaren Daten, aber vermutlich sehr unterschiedlich.", "start": 1902.59, "end": 1916.875 }, { "text": "Da gibt's einige Behörden, die da sehr weit sind, die ja auch gewisse Systeme auch schon einsetzen und andere Behörden, die da eben noch ganz am Anfang stehen.", "start": 1916.875, "end": 1927.135 } ], "start": 1893.0751, "end": 1927.135, "num_words": 80.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und Max hat es ja gesagt, also Behörden, die solche Systeme schon einsetzen, müssen eigentlich auch schon weiter vorne sein, was die Kompetenzen angeht, weil die KI Verordnung eben genau auch das festlegt.", "start": 1927.37, "end": 1939.7101 }, { "text": "Also Organisationen, die generative KI einsetzen, müssen auch dafür sorgen, dass die Mitarbeitenden über den entsprechenden Kompetenzbedarf verfügen.", "start": 1939.8501, "end": 1950.025 }, { "text": "Also das ist tatsächlich in der KI Verordnung auch festgelegt.", "start": 1950.245, "end": 1952.745 } ], "start": 1927.37, "end": 1952.745, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und vielleicht, wenn ich auch noch eine Sache kurz ergänzen darf bei dem Thema Schulungen, weil was häufig vorkommt, ist natürlich, dass 'n risikobasierter Schulungsansatz gefahren wird, wo quasi auf die Datenschutz und sonstigen Risiken aufmerksam gemacht wird.", "start": 1953.365, "end": 1968.07 }, { "text": "Und das ist alles auch gut so und auch wichtig, aber man sollte nicht vergessen, eben auch die Chancen auch entsprechend zu schulen und die Mitarbeiterinnen auch quasi in den die Möglichkeiten von diesen Technologien auch aufzuzeigen und die die positiven Anwendungsfälle auch entsprechend zu schulen.", "start": 1968.07, "end": 1985.24 }, { "text": "Also nicht nur quasi 'n risikobasierter Ansatz, sondern auch den bisschen mehr ausbalancieren mit 'nem eher chancenbasierten Ansatz.", "start": 1985.24, "end": 1993.58 } ], "start": 1953.365, "end": 1993.58, "num_words": 102.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 1993.6399, "end": 1994.1399 }, { "text": "Und vielleicht auch geht's Raum, oder?", "start": 1995.32, "end": 1997.1599 }, { "text": "Also ich erinnere mich, als ich das erste Mal versucht hab, zum Beispiel eine Präsentation zu prompten und es hat definitiv viel, viel länger gedauert, als wenn ich das selber gemacht hätte.", "start": 1997.1599, "end": 2005.535 }, { "text": "Also es geht ja auch 'n bisschen dieses, worüber wir hier oft sprechen, so Fehlerfreundlichkeit, Zeit, Raum, ne, das ist ja auch wichtig, wahrscheinlich.", "start": 2005.535, "end": 2014.87 } ], "start": 1993.6399, "end": 2014.87, "num_words": 63.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, ausprobieren, experimentieren, ja.", "start": 2014.87, "end": 2017.03 } ], "start": 2014.87, "end": 2017.03, "num_words": 4.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, okay.", "start": 2017.03, "end": 2018.0901 }, { "text": "Wir haben jetzt grad über die verschiedenen Rollen gesprochen, also dass eben nicht jeder alles wissen muss und dass es gut ist, am konkreten Anwendungsfall zu arbeiten.", "start": 2019.43, "end": 2028.1649 }, { "text": "Jetzt gibt's ja auch verschiedene Systeme und die bringen auch verschiedene Freiheitsgrade mit sich.", "start": 2028.705, "end": 2033.4249 }, { "text": "Max, kannst Du das noch mal erklären?", "start": 2033.4249, "end": 2034.865 }, { "text": "Was ist überhaupt son Freiheitsgrad und warum ist das wichtig, eben auf das System auch noch mal zu gucken, weil das Auswirkungen auf die Kompetenzen hat?", "start": 2034.865, "end": 2041.205 } ], "start": 2017.03, "end": 2041.205, "num_words": 76.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, 'n Freiheitsgrad, den Begriff verwenden wir so, dass wir damit versuchen zum Reisen, wie viel Freiheit ein System den Nutzenden gibt in der Interaktion.", "start": 2041.71, "end": 2054.465 }, { "text": "Also beispielsweise kann ich frei wählen, was ich diesem System an Informationen reingebe?", "start": 2054.8452, "end": 2060.225 }, { "text": "Kann ich die Funktion frei wählen?", "start": 2060.5251, "end": 2062.385 }, { "text": "Und dann kann man quasi grundsätzlich 3 Systeme, man kann 4 unterscheiden, aber wir machen die 3 Haupt 3 Hauptarten.", "start": 2063.0051, "end": 2070.35 }, { "text": "Einmal quasi eine vorgegebene Nutzung, wo ich quasi weder Input noch Funktion frei wählen kann, eine geführte Nutzung, wo ich den Input zwar frei wählen kann, aber das System beispielsweise eine Übersetzung, die immer einfach nur Deutsch und Englisch übersetzt, da kann ich zwar den Input, den Text, den ich reingebe, immer anders auswählen, aber im Prinzip die Funktion ist vorgegeben.", "start": 2070.41, "end": 2093.575 } ], "start": 2041.71, "end": 2093.575, "num_words": 125.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und dann letztendlich die offenen Nutzung, das sind quasi klassische, was wir jetzt heute unter Chatbots, also große Sprach unter großen Chatbots, die auf großen Sprachmodellen basieren, verstehen.", "start": 2093.575, "end": 2104.1702 }, { "text": "Da kann ich sowohl frei wählen, was ich dem System an Informationen reingebe, als auch welche, was ich mit diesen Informationen machen will, ne, und und welche welche Funktion ich quasi von dem System haben möchte.", "start": 2104.23, "end": 2116.605 }, { "text": "Und je nachdem, wie dieser Freiheitsgrad ausgestaltet ist, also ob er quasi den Nutzerinnen eine höhere Freiheit gibt bei 'ner offenen Nutzung oder eine ganz geringe Freiheit bei 'ner vorgegebenen oder sehr geführten Nutzung oder geführten Nutzung, verschieben sich die Kompetenzanforderungen.", "start": 2117.145, "end": 2134.52 }, { "text": "Also 'n 'n Nutzer muss natürlich mehr Kompetenzen haben bei Systemen, die komplett offen gestaltet sind und weniger, wenn diese Systeme eine vorgegebene oder eine geführte Nutzung haben.", "start": 2135.035, "end": 2147.775 }, { "text": "In dem Fall ist es aber wichtig, dass dieses System die die die die Kompetenzen, die dann nicht bei den Nutzerinnen liegen müssen zwangsläufig, die müssen ja irgendwo anders liegen, weil das System muss ja trotzdem sozusagen wissen, was es was es was es tun darf, was es tun kann und so weiter und was es tun soll.", "start": 2148.29, "end": 2164.965 } ], "start": 2093.575, "end": 2164.965, "num_words": 191.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und die Kompetenzen, die dafür nötig sind, das zu entscheiden, müssen dann eben nicht bei den Nutzerinnen liegen, sondern bei den Technikerinnen und bei den Entscheiderinnen.", "start": 2165.345, "end": 2172.4849 } ], "start": 2165.345, "end": 2172.4849, "num_words": 26.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, bei den beiden Ebenen drüber sozusagen, ne, würde man sagen Genau.", "start": 2172.625, "end": 2176.025 }, { "text": "Oder die, die vorherkommen.", "start": 2176.225, "end": 2177.365 }, { "text": "Wie", "start": 2177.585, "end": 2177.7449 } ], "start": 2172.625, "end": 2177.7449, "num_words": 17.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "vorher, genau.", "start": 2177.7449, "end": 2178.305 } ], "start": 2177.7449, "end": 2178.305, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 2178.305, "end": 2178.805 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 2179.1, "end": 2179.2334 }, { "text": "Okay.", "start": 2179.2334, "end": 2179.3667 } ], "start": 2178.305, "end": 2179.3667, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das Also bei der das da das hatte ich ja vorhin auch schon, glaub ich, versucht, so kurz anzureißen bei der Gestaltung des Systems, ne.", "start": 2179.3667, "end": 2184.3801 }, { "text": "Also diese 2 Stellschrauben, einmal Gestaltung des System, einmal Nutzung des Systems.", "start": 2184.3801, "end": 2188.16 }, { "text": "Und wenn ich die Kompetenzen eben bei der Nutzung des Systems möglichst gering halten will, brauche ich entsprechend höhere Kompetenzen bei der Gestaltung des Systems.", "start": 2188.7, "end": 2197.075 } ], "start": 2179.3667, "end": 2197.075, "num_words": 62.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau und was da noch einen Einfluss auf den jeweiligen Kompetenzbedarf hat, ist die Risikoklasse.", "start": 2197.135, "end": 2202.355 }, { "text": "Die haben wir eben auch einmal ganz kurz angesprochen, weil je höher die entsprechende Risikoklasse, desto größer sind auch die Anforderungen, die sich aus der europäischen KI Verordnung ergeben, beispielsweise in Bezug auf Haftung oder auch auf menschlicher Aufsicht und das heißt, diese systemspezifischen Kompetenzen, das sind dann Kompetenzen im Bereich Ethik, Recht und Standards, also Rechtsvorschriften, technische Normen, Datenschutz, aber beispielsweise auch Nachhaltigkeit und auch die Fachkompetenz.", "start": 2202.495, "end": 2237.8599 }, { "text": "Da steigen die Anforderungen, je höher die Risikoklasse und das betrifft dann die systemspezifischen Komponenten, also die, die ich gerade genannt habe, für die jeweiligen Rollen, also für Nutzerinnen, Entscheiderinnen und Technikerinnen.", "start": 2238.8, "end": 2251.7048 } ], "start": 2197.135, "end": 2251.7048, "num_words": 115.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja und dafür ist eben das Kompetenz Framework sehr nützlich, weil man dann einfach mal diese ganzen Variablen so aufgeschlüsselt sieht, ne?", "start": 2252.325, "end": 2259.045 }, { "text": "Was sind alles Einflussfaktoren auf welche Kompetenzen brauche ich?", "start": 2259.045, "end": 2262.92 } ], "start": 2252.325, "end": 2262.92, "num_words": 31.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, man weiß einfach, was muss ich im Blick behalten?", "start": 2262.92, "end": 2265.4 }, { "text": "Was muss ich mir bewusst machen, wenn ich eben überlege generativer KI einzuführen?", "start": 2265.4, "end": 2270.2998 } ], "start": 2262.92, "end": 2270.2998, "num_words": 23.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir sind jetzt schon ziemlich am Ende der Folge und ich wollte dich aber noch mal ganz konkret fragen.", "start": 2271.72, "end": 2277.1748 }, { "text": "Also für alle Leute, die jetzt Lust haben, loszulegen mit diesem Kompetenz Framework und ansetzen wollen, da wo wir gesagt haben, dass man eben ansetzen sollte bei den Basiskompetenzen.", "start": 2277.1748, "end": 2286.2349 }, { "text": "Wie bringt man das denn in Gang?", "start": 2287.1748, "end": 2289.115 } ], "start": 2271.72, "end": 2289.115, "num_words": 55.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Na, das Allerwichtigste beim In Gangbringen ist, dass die Schwelle zum In Gangbringen möglichst niedrig ist.", "start": 2291.53, "end": 2298.25 }, { "text": "Das bedeutet, Angebote schaffen in der Organisation, sich sehr einfach mit diesen mit dem mit mit dieser Technologie auseinanderzusetzen.", "start": 2298.25, "end": 2309.625 }, { "text": "Also entweder durch beispielsweise eine Kaffeepause, durch 'n ein Mittagessen, wo diese Systeme eben nebenbei mal erklärt werden und die die Möglichkeiten und und Risiken bei der Nutzung aufgezeigt werden.", "start": 2310.165, "end": 2326.9 }, { "text": "Also das heißt, möglichst möglichst niedrigschwellig", "start": 2326.9, "end": 2329.575 } ], "start": 2291.53, "end": 2329.575, "num_words": 71.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also nicht gleich son fünftägiges Seminar ansetzen, sondern Genau,", "start": 2330.115, "end": 2332.7551 } ], "start": 2330.115, "end": 2332.7551, "num_words": 9.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "nicht gleich Nein, klar.", "start": 2332.7551, "end": 2333.895 }, { "text": "Mit dem mit dem mit der Kanone auch Spatzen schießen, sondern da geht's erst mal darum, wie der Name sagt, die ganz grundlegenden Basis möglichst breit zu verankern.", "start": 2334.0352, "end": 2343.335 }, { "text": "Und natürlich ist es da dann die Frage, inwiefern kann man so was verpflichtend machen?", "start": 2343.395, "end": 2348.55 }, { "text": "Idealerweise wär's, dass solche Veranstaltungen verpflichtend sind, eben sicherzustellen, dass möglichst alle und nicht nur die, die die Lust haben oder die die sich dafür interessieren bei solchen Veranstaltungen dabei sind, also quasi auch remote.", "start": 2348.93, "end": 2365.805 }, { "text": "Also es gibt ja auch ganz viele wunderbare Onlinematerialien schon Ja,", "start": 2365.805, "end": 2369.325 } ], "start": 2332.7551, "end": 2369.325, "num_words": 93.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "also man", "start": 2369.325, "end": 2369.565 } ], "start": 2369.325, "end": 2369.565, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "muss nicht das Rad neu erfinden.", "start": 2369.565, "end": 2370.605 }, { "text": "Es gibt Dinge, die sind schon da, ne?", "start": 2370.605, "end": 2371.9648 }, { "text": "Könnt ihr da irgendwas empfehlen?", "start": 2371.9648, "end": 2373.265 } ], "start": 2369.565, "end": 2373.265, "num_words": 19.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, also es geht ja erst mal darum, bei den Basiskompetenzen auch son bisschen die Denkräume aufzumachen und erst mal den Blick son bisschen zu weiten dafür, was was ist auch generative KI, nicht nur, aber auch das und überhaupt, wo könnte ich die vielleicht überhaupt in meiner Organisation, in meiner alltäglichen Arbeit einsetzen und das eben möglichst niedrigschwellig und möglichst nutzer*innenzentriert zu gestalten, also vielleicht auch so verschiedene Learning Nuggets anzubieten.", "start": 2374.5999, "end": 2400.985 }, { "text": "Max hat da gerade schon 'n paar genannt, die Datenlabore des Bundes machen da schon relativ viel, die haben dann auch Tutorials, die haben irgendwelche Hilfestellungen oder Leitfäden, die man nutzen kann, sich mal einfach, vielleicht auch nur in 5 Minuten, einfach son bisschen mal damit auseinanderzusetzen und da son bisschen reinzuarbeiten.", "start": 2401.69, "end": 2419.9749 }, { "text": "Und wer schon relativ viel macht, auch für die gesamte Bundesverwaltung beispielsweise, ist das BMZ, also die haben Webinare, wo es verschiedene Datenthemen geht.", "start": 2420.435, "end": 2433.26 }, { "text": "KI und auch generative KI spielt dann natürlich auch eine Rolle und die steht allen Mitarbeitenden in der Bundesverwaltung stehen die offen und die werden hinterher auch beispielsweise über Youtube bereitgestellt, das heißt auch von anderen Verwaltungsebenen, Länder oder Kommunen oder auch interessierte Bürger*innen können sich diese Tutorials angucken und sich 'n bisschen aufschlauen zu generativer KI.", "start": 2433.4, "end": 2455.835 } ], "start": 2374.5999, "end": 2455.835, "num_words": 205.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mehr Input, mehr Kompetenz zu diesem Thema gibt's online unter öfid Punkt d e mit o e geschrieben.", "start": 2457.65, "end": 2463.8298 }, { "text": "Und nächsten Monat gibt's natürlich wieder eine neue Folge von We Start digital, dann wieder mit meinem Kollegen Philipp 1.", "start": 2464.2898, "end": 2471.265 }, { "text": "Alle unsere früheren Podcasts, zum Beispiel auch den zum Thema Automatisierung des Verwaltungsverfahrens findet ihr auf den gängigen Podcastplattformen, auf Apple Podcasts, auf Spotify und auf vielen weiteren Portalen.", "start": 2471.825, "end": 2484.2449 }, { "text": "Da könnt ihr digital auch abonnieren.", "start": 2484.7048, "end": 2487.25 }, { "text": "Ich bin Franziska Walser, ich danke euch fürs Zuhören.", "start": 2487.71, "end": 2490.29 } ], "start": 2457.65, "end": 2490.29, "num_words": 82.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Bis zum nächsten Mal.", "start": 2490.51, "end": 2491.73 } ], "start": 2490.51, "end": 2491.73, "num_words": 4.0, "speaker": 0 } ] }, "entities": null, 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Wenn was eingeführt ist, machen wir jetzt noch schnell die Kompetenzen dazu und das schlauen die Mitarbeiterinnen auf, sondern das als essenzielle Grundlage dafür zu sehen. Mhm. Kannst Du's noch mal 'n bisschen mehr erklären? Also so Worst Case, wenn jetzt da sone wilde Nutzung auf eigene Faust erfolgt? Also was könnte da alles schieflaufen? 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Und da werden wir wahrscheinlich jetzt dann gleich noch drauf eingehen. Das kommt halt braucht nicht nur Wissen bei den Nutzerinnen, sondern eben auch bei den Techniker Technikerinnen und bei den Entscheiderinnen. Ja. 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Genau, also Kompetenz,", "words": [ { "word": "ne", "start": 1136.75, "end": 1136.91, "confidence": 0.9135742, "punctuated_word": "ne?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.804947 }, { "word": "genau", "start": 1136.91, "end": 1137.31, "confidence": 0.85180664, "punctuated_word": "Genau,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.804947 }, { "word": "also", "start": 1137.31, "end": 1137.63, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "also", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.804947 }, { "word": "kompetenz", "start": 1137.63, "end": 1138.13, "confidence": 0.9724121, "punctuated_word": "Kompetenz,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.804947 } ], "speaker": 1, "id": "d289792f-496f-4d0c-adea-9173ec3d91e2" }, { "start": 1138.67, "end": 1142.53, "confidence": 0.98380536, "channel": 0, "transcript": "da orientieren wir uns an der OECD. 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Und was das aber bedeutet, ist, dass es eben über das Wissen hinausgeht, weil erfolgreich", "words": [ { "word": "für", "start": 1152.285, "end": 1152.525, "confidence": 0.9873047, "punctuated_word": "für", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8042606 }, { "word": "eine", "start": 1152.525, "end": 1153.005, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "eine", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8042606 }, { "word": "bestimmte", "start": 1153.005, "end": 1153.405, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "bestimmte", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8042606 }, { "word": "aufgabe", "start": 1153.405, "end": 1153.805, "confidence": 0.9658203, "punctuated_word": "Aufgabe.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8042606 }, { "word": "und", "start": 1153.805, "end": 1153.9651, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "Und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8042606 }, { "word": "was", "start": 1153.9651, "end": 1154.2051, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "was", 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Mhm. Okay. 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Max, kannst Du das noch mal erklären? 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Genau, man weiß einfach, was muss ich im Blick behalten? Was muss ich mir bewusst machen, wenn ich eben überlege generativer", "words": [ { "word": "auf", "start": 2260.805, "end": 2261.16, "confidence": 0.97265625, "punctuated_word": "auf", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.84498316 }, { "word": "welche", "start": 2261.4, "end": 2261.7998, "confidence": 0.9741211, "punctuated_word": "welche", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.84498316 }, { "word": "kompetenzen", "start": 2261.7998, "end": 2262.2998, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Kompetenzen", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.84498316 }, { "word": "brauche", "start": 2262.44, "end": 2262.5999, "confidence": 0.8720703, "punctuated_word": "brauche", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.84498316 }, { "word": "ich", "start": 2262.5999, "end": 2262.92, "confidence": 0.9785156, "punctuated_word": "ich?", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.84498316 }, { "word": "genau", "start": 2262.92, "end": 2263.16, "confidence": 0.8581543, "punctuated_word": "Genau,", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.6695009 }, { "word": "man", "start": 2263.16, "end": 2263.4, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "man", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.6695009 }, { "word": "weiß", "start": 2263.4, "end": 2263.72, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "weiß", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.6695009 }, { "word": "einfach", "start": 2263.72, "end": 2264.1199, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "einfach,", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.6695009 }, { "word": "was", "start": 2264.1199, "end": 2264.28, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "was", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.6695009 }, { "word": "muss", "start": 2264.28, "end": 2264.44, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "muss", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.6695009 }, { "word": "ich", "start": 2264.44, "end": 2264.5999, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.46957898 }, { "word": "im", "start": 2264.5999, "end": 2264.76, "confidence": 0.9863281, "punctuated_word": "im", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.46957898 }, { "word": "blick", "start": 2264.76, "end": 2265.0, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Blick", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.46957898 }, { "word": "behalten", "start": 2265.0, "end": 2265.4, "confidence": 0.7988281, "punctuated_word": "behalten?", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.46957898 }, { "word": "was", "start": 2265.4, "end": 2265.64, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Was", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8671308 }, { "word": "muss", "start": 2265.64, "end": 2265.72, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "muss", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8671308 }, { "word": "ich", "start": 2265.72, "end": 2265.96, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8671308 }, { "word": "mir", "start": 2265.96, "end": 2266.2, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "mir", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8671308 }, { "word": "bewusst", "start": 2266.2, "end": 2266.68, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "bewusst", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8671308 }, { "word": "machen", "start": 2266.68, "end": 2267.18, "confidence": 0.9838867, "punctuated_word": "machen,", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8671308 }, { "word": "wenn", "start": 2267.4, "end": 2267.64, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "wenn", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8671308 }, { "word": "ich", "start": 2267.64, "end": 2267.7998, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8671308 }, { "word": "eben", "start": 2267.7998, "end": 2268.1199, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "eben", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8671308 }, { "word": "überlege", "start": 2268.1199, "end": 2268.5999, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "überlege", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8671308 }, { "word": "generativer", "start": 2268.5999, "end": 2269.0999, "confidence": 0.7548828, "punctuated_word": "generativer", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8671308 } ], "speaker": 2, "id": "a8e91538-b5d4-4bc0-95c9-f0226c46e6b1" }, { "start": 2269.4, "end": 2270.2998, "confidence": 0.9355469, "channel": 0, "transcript": "KI einzuführen?", "words": [ { "word": "ki", "start": 2269.4, "end": 2269.7998, "confidence": 0.9301758, "punctuated_word": "KI", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8671308 }, { "word": "einzuführen", "start": 2269.7998, "end": 2270.2998, "confidence": 0.94091797, "punctuated_word": "einzuführen?", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.8671308 } ], "speaker": 2, "id": "c2bbb421-96be-45e6-8c18-43094407d8c3" }, { "start": 2271.72, "end": 2279.6748, "confidence": 0.9698661, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Wir sind jetzt schon ziemlich am Ende der Folge und ich wollte dich aber noch mal ganz konkret fragen. Also für alle Leute, die jetzt Lust haben, loszulegen", "words": [ { "word": "wir", "start": 2271.72, "end": 2271.88, "confidence": 0.94628906, "punctuated_word": "Wir", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.66561025 }, { "word": "sind", "start": 2271.88, "end": 2272.0398, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "sind", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.66561025 }, { "word": "jetzt", "start": 2272.0398, "end": 2272.3599, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "jetzt", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.66561025 }, { "word": "schon", "start": 2272.3599, "end": 2272.68, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "schon", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.66561025 }, { "word": "ziemlich", "start": 2272.68, "end": 2273.0798, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ziemlich", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.66561025 }, { "word": "am", "start": 2273.0798, "end": 2273.3198, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "am", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.66561025 }, { "word": "ende", 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