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Das Ziel ist es, die beiden Transformationsthemen Nachhaltigkeit und Digitalisierung zusammenzudenken, und zwar so, dass sich daraus keine Überforderung ergibt, sondern eine Entlastung. Heute gibt es ein Update zur Nachhaltigkeitskennvas, sozusagen ein was wurde aus, denn das Tool, das wir 2023 besprochen haben, ist inzwischen in der Praxis angekommen. Es hat sich weiterentwickelt und darüber werden wir sprechen mit vielen Beispielen aus der Praxis. Ich bin Franziska Weiser und bei mir im Studio sind, wie schon bei der ersten Folge zur Nachhaltigkeitskanvas, Dorian Wachsmann, wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter am Kompetenzzentrum öffentlicher IT mit Schwerpunkt auf nachhaltiger Digitalisierung und künstlicher Intelligenz. Hallo, Dorian. Hallo, danke, dass ich da sein darf. Und auch wieder dabei Doktor Mike Weber, Trendforscher und stellvertretender Leiter des öfid. Mike, hallo. Hallo Franziska. Lass uns doch noch mal kurz zurückblicken auf die Ausgangssituation, also 2022, 23. Was war denn der Anlass dafür, dass ihr den Nachhaltigkeitskanvas überhaupt entwickelt habt? Was gab's da fürn Bedarf? Wir haben dann in 'nem Paper dargelegt, dass es eben, also wir haben das natürlich nicht selbst entwickelt, sondern wir haben so die die Diskussion aufgegriffen und haben halt niederei Dimensionen aufgemacht, die Nachhaltigkeit besitzt. Und haben für jede dieser Dimensionen Kriterien zusammengesammelt von den Vorarbeiten, die's auch wieder gab. Also die Gesellschaft für Informatik hatte damals schon Kriterienkatalog entwickelt und andere Akteure auch. Und wir dachten uns, dass es eigentlich schön wäre, 'n Tool zu entwickeln, was möglichst niedrigschwellig ist. Also mit dem auch beispielsweise Kommunen mit begrenzten Ressourcen hingehen können und sagen, okay, wir sind jetzt 'n kleines Team. Wir haben wir wollen dieses Projekt umsetzen, dieses Digitalisierungsprojekt und wir wollen so gut es geht dabei Nachhaltigkeit mitdenken. Mhm. Genau, wir hatten das damals auch Genau. Dieses son großes Poster, ne. Wir hatten das damals auch im Studio und da kann man dann sehr übersichtlich quasi Felder ausfüllen und dann wie sone Art Check machen, oder? Das war die Idee. Wir sind von dem Businessmodel Canvas ausgegangen. Das ist die ähnliche Idee, wo man im Endeffekt diese neuen Felder hat, die man nacheinander ausfüllen kann. Und am Ende hat man eine Übersicht über das eigene Businessmodell. Und wir wollten dieses Businessmodel Canvas halt von Idee aufgreifen, aber für Nachhaltigkeit Nachhaltigkeit und Digitalisierung adaptieren. Genau. Und da sind dann diese Felder draus entstanden, die halt diese 2 grundsätzlichen Perspektiven zusammenbringen, die wir in dem Paper dann auch noch mal erörtern. Und zusätzlich dann auch die ganze Folgenabschätzung und Evaluation nach hinten raus, halt 'n Gesamteindruck von dem Projekt zu bekommen und eventuell idealerweise Möglichkeiten zu identifizieren, wie man Nachhaltigkeit in 'nem eigenen Digitalisierungsprojekt stärken kann. Genau und wenn Sie uns jetzt zuhören und sich fragen, was sind denn eigentlich die 3 Säulen der Nachhaltigkeit, dann gerne zurückscrollen im Podcastfeed, genau, da haben wir sehr ausführlich drüber geredet 2023. Diese 2 Perspektiven, die Du gerade meintest, das da geht's ja darum, dient die Digitalisierung der Nachhaltigkeit und sind die digitalen Tools, die ich einsetze, auch nachhaltig, ne? Genau. Das sind diese beiden Perspektiven. Also ich glaub, wir haben das damals das Wozu und das womit genannt son bisschen, ne? Ja, genau. Noch mal 'n kurzes Beispiel, zum Beispiel, wenn ich eine KI hab, die unglaublich aufwendig energiefressend trainiert wurde, 'n sehr kleines, weiß ich nicht, Energieeffizienzproblem zu lösen, dann ist es halt vielleicht am Ende nicht nachhaltig, ne? Wär ja wär ja schon schön, wenn da eine Energieeffizienzproblem gelöst oder ich kann mir auch eine KI vorstellen, die ich mit extrem viel Daten trainiert hab und extrem viel Energie, die am Ende, weiß ich nicht, mehr Filmvorschläge macht, ne? Ja. Dann haben wir da überhaupt kein Nachhaltigkeitsziel und Genau. Unsere Idee war halt, uns auf die Sustainable Development Goals zu beziehen, ne? Die auch in Kommunen nah an Kommunen und in Landesstrategien ja häufig adressiert werden. Und zu sagen, okay, wenn ich 'n Digitalisierungsprojekt umsetze, will ich eigentlich schauen, wo verortet sich das dann in meinen Nachhaltigkeitszielen? Und dann auf 'ner anderen Ebene, wie Du ja auch beschrieben hast, ne. Wenn ich dann meine digitalen Tools einsetze, wie kann ich die eigentlich gestalten, dass sie halt in allen 3 Dimensionen möglichst nachhaltig sind? Genau, dass man beides im Blick behält. Genau. Ja. Wir beziehen uns heute im Gespräch auf eine ÖFIT Veröffentlichung mit dem Titel Nachhaltigkeit in kommunalen Digitalprojekten, eine qualitative Analyse. Da schreibt ihr in der Einleitung noch mal, dass eben Nachhaltigkeit und Digitalisierung die 2 zentralen Herausforderungen unserer Zeit sind. Beide gleich dringlich, aber werden mit unterschiedlichem Tempo und Fokus verfolgt. Das ist ja vielleicht auch son bisschen son, ja, son sone Beobachtung aus jetzt, ne, von 2023 bis 2025, die liefen beide gleich. Was ist draus geworden? Und also ich les das 'n bisschen so in der Einleitung, dass Die Digitalisierung geht schnell voran und die Nachhaltigkeit haben wir son bisschen vergessen aufm Weg. Hab ich das richtig gelesen? Willst Du, sage ich? Also Ich widerspreche dir danach. Okay. Also also mein Eindruck ist, dass gerade jetzt auch auch nach der nach der Bundestagswahl und ist ja jetzt sehr viel Dynamik in dem ganzen Digitalisierungs Feld, Digitalpolitik. Es gibt jetzt 'n eigenes Ministerium. Irgendwie die Energie ist auf jeden Fall da. Es wird viel gemacht, auch was was so die Umsetzung angeht, OZG und so. Das gibt es ja, also ist ja einfach Fortschritt zu beobachten. Und andererseits ist zumindest mein Eindruck jetzt gewesen, dass diesem ganze das ganze Nachhaltigkeitsthema durchaus eher stiefmütterlicher behandelt wird, sag ich mal. Ja. Also so Cherry on the cake kann man's nicht. Ja, ex ex ex ex. Wenn wir noch Kapazitäten haben, machen wir das auch noch. Wir sehen ja in einigen Bereichen so so backlash artige Bewegungen, wo Themen, die vor 'n paar Jahren extrem en vogue waren, sag ich mal, also jetzt eben nicht mehr sind. Und da wollten wir auch mit diesem Impuls noch mal 'n Stoß in die Richtung, eben Nachhaltigkeit doch auch wieder aktiver zu betrachten. Jetzt darf man Und jetzt würde ich gerne ein ganz klein bisschen widersprechen. Also wenn man sich die politischen Diskurse anguckt, dann sehe ich das oder beobachte ich das ganz genauso und Nachhaltigkeit kommt erstaunlich selten mittlerweile als Thema in politischen Reden vor. Oder auch wenn man sich die Klimaschutzziele anguckt, da steht dann irgendwo im Koalitionsvertrag, die halten wir ein, aber wie und mit welchen Instrumenten ist es, da wird's dann schon sehr dünn. Also ja, auf dieser politischen Ebene auf jeden Fall. Aber zum einen ist das Thema halt aus meiner Sicht durchaus schon angekommen. Das zeigen auch so die Beispiele, die ihr da ausgearbeitet habt. Also das Thema ist durchaus auf der Arbeitsebene angekommen und wird da auch berücksichtigt. Das ist das eine und das andere ist, im ganz anderen Kontext kommt so etwas wie Nachhaltigkeitsbetrachtung, Wirkungsbetrachtung jetzt wieder in die Diskussion sehr stark rein. Wirkungsorientierung vom staatlichen Handeln ist im Moment ein Riesenthema. Und da sind Nachhaltigkeitsziele einmal ein ganz wesentlicher Bereich, den man betrachten kann, grade dann, wenn man natürlich Nachhaltigkeitsprojekte beobachtet, dann ist man quasi direkt in der Wirkungsanalyse drin. Mhm. Aber auch für unintendierte Folgen, also nutz ich jetzt die Mega KI, irgend 'n Kleinkram damit zu erledigen. Also solche solche nicht beabsichtigten Nebenwirkungen kann ich damit natürlich wunderbar untersuchen. Und deswegen im Bereich der Nachhaltigkeit sind wir in Fragen der Wirkungsorientierung schon viel weiter als in anderen Bereichen. Also wir können heute, auch wenn es vielleicht politisch nicht mehr en vogue ist, aber wir können auf der operativen Ebene unheimlich viel lernen aus der Nachhaltigkeitsdiskussion. Mhm. Und wir sprechen ja eben auch nicht über die politischen Reden, wir sprechen ja über die Handlungsebene bei den Kommunen sozusagen und das kann ja sich da vielleicht noch mal ganz anders darstellen, ne. Vielleicht ist es den Leuten einfach wichtig und sie machen's und sie sind ja auch durch bestimmte Vorgaben dazu angehalten. Das ist ja auch nicht so, dass man sich da frei entscheiden kann, sondern gibt's ja Vorgaben. Genau, es gibt immer mehr Vorgaben, was Beschaffung angeht. Es gibt auch vermeintlich Planungsrat, Gruppen Green IT, die haben ja auch Richtlinien und so weiter entwickelt. Es gibt auf jeden Fall sehr viel. Aber die eine Sache nur, aber ich mein, das ist ja auch gewissermaßen unrealistisch. Aber wenn man sich die Agenda 20 30 anguckt, also eben diese SDGs, die Ziele, gibt's ja jährliche Berichte, wie gut wir in der Erreichung sind. Mhm. Und da sind wir halt nicht gut. Also da ist viel zu tun. Ich mein, die Ziele sind auch extrem hoch gesteckt und zu erwarten, dass man sie vollumfänglich erfüllt, ist vielleicht 'n bisschen utopisch, aber trotzdem. Also da könnte man noch viel mehr tun. Ja. Die die anderen muss ich jetzt loslassen. Daran sieht man, wie gut die die Wirkungsmessung in dem Bereich schon ist. Dass man überhaupt sagen kann, dass wir das nicht so gut erreichen können. Ja, genau. Genau. Weil man das in anderen Bereichen vielleicht gar nicht sagen könnte. Genau. Bereich der Digitalisierung wird das deutlich schwieriger. Wir versuchen's ja 'n bisschen, aber da ist das deutlich schwieriger zu fassen. Wie ist es auf der konkreten Projekebene? Also das ist ja auch 'n Problem, was der Canvas adressiert. Man könnte ja die Nachhaltigkeit bei Digitalisierungsprojekten son bisschen am Ende drüber deckeln sozusagen und ihr wollt ja, dass man die von Anfang an mitdenkt. Gibt's da Fortschritte? Also nachdem wir das Papier geschrieben haben, also unser erklärtes Ziel war ja, das möglichst niedrigschwellig zu halten und unser was, was wir dann zurückgemeldet bekommen haben, ist, dass es irgendwie noch zu kompliziert ist. Mhm. Dass es schwierig ist, da einzusteigen. Also der Canvas war Ja, genau. Obwohl schon sehr runtergekocht, immer noch zu aufwendig Ja, also zu bearbeiten. So so war die Rückmeldung zumindest. Das heißt, wir haben dann im Anschluss versucht, das Tool auch noch online umzusetzen, dass es halt nicht auf Papier ist, sondern dass man damit eine Anleitung durchgeführt wird. Mhm. Wir haben aber gemerkt, dass auch da dann häufig einfach die die Ressourcen gefehlt haben, sich damit auseinanderzusetzen, intensiv da einzusteigen und dann im Team das zu bearbeiten. Was sich dann als am erfolgreichsten rausgestellt hat, was wir dann in in immer mal wieder so so so kleineren zwei-, dreistündigen Events mit mit Interessierten gemacht haben, ist halt einfach in 'nem Workshop zusammen Also wir füllen das zusammen aus. Wir füllen das mal zusammen aus. Wir erklären, wir sind für Rückfragen dann da. Mhm. Und da wir die ja diese Beobachtung gemacht haben, haben wir dann gesagt, warum nicht das Ganze noch mal strukturiert anhand von soner Reihe von Workshops durchgehen, durchsprechen und dann da zweierlei draus ziehen. Zum einen für uns vielleicht noch mal zu lernen, wie wir so was noch einfacher gestalten können und zum anderen dann halt auch den interessierten Kommunen zu helfen, diese Kenntnis anzuwenden. Okay. Also genau, es gibt immer noch das Ziel, dass man vielleicht mal 'n Tool hat, was man auch autark alleine anwenden kann, aber jetzt habt ihr erst mal Workshops gemacht, auch einfach das Tool zu verbessern, ne, und den Leuten zu helfen. Genau. Könnt ihr mal erzählen, wie die Workshops so ablaufen? Also wer wer kommt dahin? Fordern die das an? Wie bringt ihr's zu den Leuten? Also genau, wir haben wir haben das kennen wir's damals hier zusammen mit dem Beratungsunternehmen City und BITS entwickelt, die in den kommunalen Kontext sehr gut vernetzt sind. Und wir haben jetzt auch die Workshops wieder gemeinsam mit denen zusammen gemacht. Das heißt, sie haben in ihrem Netzwerk nach Kommunen angefragt, die da vielleicht Interesse dran hätten. Und wir hatten dann Rückmeldungen und haben dann ausgesucht nach Projekten, die möglichst unterschiedlich sind, die auch explizit nicht unbedingt rein nachhaltigkeitsbezogen sind. Das werden wir dann ja auch sehen, wenn wir in die Beispiele reingehen. Wir haben jetzt auch das eine Projekt drin, was gar kein Digitalisierungsprojekt an sich ist, sondern eher son klassisches Kommunalentwicklungsprojekt. Einfach mal, zu sehen, ob das da eventuell auch Anwendungspotenzial hat. Und so haben wir dann jetzt 5 Projekte ausgesucht, die sich über 'n 'n 'n breites Spektrum abdecken. Und genau und dann in den, also ich kann auch gern gleich kurz beschreiben, wie son wie son Workshop ausgesehen hat oder Ja, vielleicht, genau. Oder ich weiß nicht, vielleicht Mike, kannst Du noch mal erzählen, ist das ist das son übliches Vorgehen? Also oder ist das für euch auch neu gewesen, dass man sagt irgendwie, wir haben wir haben Tools und wir probieren das in 'nem Workshop aus? Und da gibt's eine Nachfrage für Ja, also das machen wir normalerweise schon, dass wir dann auf auf Tagungen, Konferenzen oder bei uns bei Besuchergruppen oder wie auch immer unsere Tools dann demonstrieren und vorstellen und dann natürlich auch das Feedback einsammeln, was kann man den Tools besser machen? Dass wir das so strukturiert wie in diesem Fall durchführen, also ganz gezielt mit Auswahl eine eine festgelegte Serie und auch mit Einfluss darauf, welche Projekte wir uns angucken. Das ist, glaub ich, in der iffid Geschichte einmalig in dieser Form. Das haben wir uns schon mal vorgenommen, aber diesmal haben wir's geschafft. Ja, also dass die ja richtig wie sone Versuchsanordnung haben sozusagen Ja, genau. Damit. Mhm, okay. Ja, dann erzähl doch mal, wie die abgelaufen sind, die Workshops. 2 bis 3 Stunden, hast Du gesagt, ne? Genau, meistens eher doch 3 Stunden, weil's sich ja doch alles immer wieder zieht. Also wir hatten im Vorhinein 'n Workshopkonzept entwickelt, was sich in eigentlich 3 Teile geteilt hat. Zwar 'n erster kurzer Teil, der so als Impuls gedient hat, einmal die Sachen darzulegen, die halt einfach gebraucht werden. Das ist unser Verständnis von Nachhaltigkeit. Das ist unser Verständnis von dem dem Zusammenspiel von Nachhaltigkeit und Digitalisierung. Und dann sind wir eigentlich in dem größten Teil des Workshops dieses Canvas wirklich durchgegangen, weil wir doch gemerkt haben, dass es zu viel Zeit kosten würde, das gesamte Canvas durchzugehen, dass wir den ersten Teil, den Steuerungsteil, wo es halt die Ziele geht, im Vorhinein schon abgesprochen hatten. Das heißt, wir hatten nach Inhalten gefragt, nach Projektbeschreibungen und Rahmenbedingungen. Und dann haben wir das den Kennvest Teil schon ausgefüllt gehabt und sind nur noch mal ganz kurz durchgegangen. Passt das alles so? Gibt's noch Anmerkungen, Verbesserungen oder haben wir da was falsch gemacht? Das heißt, das werden wir relativ schnell abgehakt und dann sind wir eigentlich, und es war wirklich der größte Teil, diese 21 Nachhaltigkeitskriterien, die sich über diese Säulen da ökologisch, ökonomisch und sozial ziehen, die wir damals zusammengetragen haben. Die sind wir wirklich Schritt für Schritt durchgegangen, haben jedes einzelne Kriterium kurz vorgestellt und haben dann eigentlich die Projekt Mitarbeitenden. Wir waren immer in 'ner größeren Gruppe, ne. Also es war nicht nur irgendwie der Projektverantwortliche Projektverantwortliche da und haben sie dann diskutieren lassen über dieses Kriterium, inwieweit das in ihrem Kontext überhaupt relevant ist. Es kann ja sein, es spielt einfach überhaupt keine Rolle, irgendwie sauberes Wasser. Ja. Wir machen was ganz anderes, hat haben wir gar nichts damit zu tun. Genau. Genau, ja. Dann haben wir auch motiviert zu sagen, wenn 'n Kriterium keine Rolle spielt, dann könnte es auch werfen, weil es gab dann teilweise die Tendenz, ja, wir konstruieren uns jetzt hier irgendwas. Und wir müssen wollen alles erfüllen. Genau, aber das ist ja völliger Quatsch. Also es geht ja wirklich darum, wir haben ja möglichst breites Angebot mit den Kriterien. Und es geht ja auch darum, klar zu sagen, okay, das betrifft uns einfach nicht. Mhm. Und dann sind wir halt Schritt für Schritt diese 21 Kriterien durchgegangen. Und bei jedem Kriterium wurde erst gefragt, betrifft es uns? Wenn wenn wenn ja, wie inwieweit? Wird es vielleicht auch schon umgesetzt? Und wenn ja, wenn nicht, gibt es Möglichkeiten, das eventuell bei uns perspektivisch umzusetzen. Mhm. Immer mit diesen diesen Schritt durch. Genau und dann, je nachdem, wie lang, das war ja 'n sehr hat teilweise sehr lange gedauert. Ja, 21 Kriterien ist auch erst mal eine Menge, ne, wenn man da Ja, das ist ja so über alles diskutiert, ja. Genau. Und auch wenn je größer das Team ist und dann mehr Input, dann kann man ja auch theoretisch über ein einzelnes Kriterium eine halbe Stunde reden, wenn's nicht wichtig ist. Aber dann, je nachdem, wie viel Zeit wir nach hinten raus hatten, sind wir dann halt noch in den Evaluationsteil gegangen und haben gefragt, okay, jetzt habt ihr diese Kriterien festgelegt. Wie wollt ihr die denn messen eigentlich? Das ist ja diese Frage nach den Key Performance Indikatoren. Und da haben wir dann häufig gemerkt, dass da noch noch sehr, ich sag mal, noch noch viel Möglichkeit zur Verbesserung gibt. Also da ist ja häufig 'n ja noch noch 'n weißes weißes Feld gewesen, Aber auch großes Interesse, da drüber nachzudenken und zu sich zu fragen, okay, wie wie kann man so was eigentlich messen? Und dann bei ein oder bei 2 Projekten hat mir, glaub ich, dann am Ende auch noch eine Folgenabschätzung vorgenommen, wo wir dann halt gefragt haben über 3 verschiedene Zeithorizonte in den 3 Dimensionen, wie stellt ihr euch eigentlich vor? Welchen Impact kann euer Projekt haben? Im Positiven wie im Negativen? Das ist ja diese Wirkungsorientierung im Prinzip, Mike, wo Du gerade gesagt hast, das ist gerade das große Ding. Das ist die ganz hohe Kunst der Wirkungsorientierung, ja. Und wenn man das dann noch schafft über diese Key Performance Indicator, wie er sie nennt, messbar zu machen und greifbar zu machen, das ist bei Impact 'n ganz schwieriges Feld. Deswegen habt ihr auch gefragt, oder was heißt die Nummer? Genau, also wir haben da wirklich Ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich was stellt ihr euch denn vor? Was könnte denn sein? Ja. Das ist ja auch meistens dann in der letzten Viertelstunde noch 'n bisschen passiert. Aber es war trotzdem interessant. Und auch zu sehen, dass die Projekte jetzt nicht nur Positives bei sich selbst auch festgestellt haben, sondern auch gesagt haben, na gut, beispielsweise bei der bei dem einen Projekt ging's ja Verkehrsaufkommen über übern Kanal. Wenn wir das jetzt optimieren, dann kann das natürlich auch dazu führen, dass erst mal der mehr Verkehr entsteht, ne? Genau, weil mehr Leute Auto fahren, weil sich denken, das läuft ja prima. Genau. Das kommt gut durch. Genau, also so sone sone Erkenntnisse gab's dann auch. Und die Projekte waren ja in ganz unterschiedlichen Stadien, so wie ich's auch verstanden hab. Also manche waren noch so, also wir überlegen das zu machen, wir wissen noch gar nicht genau, ob wir's machen und manche waren schon sehr weit fortgeschritten. Da hat man, das ist ja auch 'n Unterschied, wie viel man dann überhaupt noch Einfluss nehmen kann, ne, zu dem Genau. Zeitpunkt, ja. Also die Workshops sind ja auch alle letztes Jahr schon passiert. Das heißt, die Projekte sind jetzt im Nachhinein ja auch noch weiterentwickelt worden. Man meint, die sind jetzt fertig geworden und so. Aber ja, das war in in der Tat son bisschen ja, unterschiedlich. Ob es eher eine Retrospektive war oder eher eine was können wir eigentlich noch tun, Perspektive. Wobei natürlich man auch aus den abgeschlossenen Projekten dann wieder lernen kann, was man beim nächsten Mal anders machen kann. Total, weil das sind ja immer dieselben Leute, ne und die machen dann das nächste Projekt. Also ja, genau. Ja, und auch original kann man ja offen lernen und dann Ja. Zum Beispiel das Indikatorensets zu sammeln, die ja teilweise, also zumindest bei einigen einigen Kriterien ja relativ eindeutig sind, Energieeffizienz oder Wiederverwertbarkeit. Das sind ja relativ klare Kriterien, die man beim nächsten Mal dann auch gleich wieder ansetzen kann, wenn man neues Projekt startet. Ja, dann geht's in 2 Stunden und nicht in 3 Stunden beim nächsten Mal. Na ja, wenn man am Anfang steht, haben wir vielleicht noch mehr Kriterien, die man diskutieren muss, könnt ich mir vorstellen. Okay, aber dann lass doch mal in die in die Beispiele einsteigen. Also ihr stellt 5 Beispiele im Detail vor. Es waren aber mehr Workshops wahrscheinlich, ne. Also das sind jetzt 5, die habt ihr euch rausgegriffen, weil man die einfach besonders spannend waren. Nee, das waren tatsächlich genau die 5, die wir auch gemacht haben. Okay, also das ist eure Versuchsanordnung. Wir hatten wir hatten, ich glaube, 10, 15 interessierte Kommunen und aus denen haben wir dann die 5 Kommunen ausgelöst, mit denen wir die Workshops halten wollen und die haben wir dann auch alle in dem Impuls berücksichtigt. Also wir haben jetzt keinen rausgeworfen. Ja, okay, genau. Also die 5 stellt ihr alle vor in dieser Veröffentlichung. Ich würd jetzt gerne mal 3 rausgreifen, weil 5 'n bisschen den Rahmen sprengt und es gab so ein Projekt, das hat mich gleich neugierig gemacht, das heißt der digitale Bienenstock im Kreis Recklinghausen. Worum geht's denn da? Genau, es ist auch irgendwie, ich ich weiß gar nicht, wie ich das sagen darf, aber mein Lieblingsprojekt, einfach weil's weil's so schön ist, ne. Ich glaub, Bienen mag eigentlich jeder, glaube ich. Ja. Brücken Recklinghausen ist ein Projekt, was in Zusammenarbeit 'n starkes Sommerbett mit dem Hof Wessels entwickelt wurde. Der Hof Wessels ist ein Lernort für außerschulische Umweltbildung vom BNE. Genau, das heißt, das Projekt zahlt eigentlich auf zweierlei Ziele ein. Einmal gute Bildung, weil halt versucht wird, über das Projekt Umweltbildung Menschen zu bringen und zum anderen natürlich das Wohl der Bienen zu verbessern, also auf das Ziel, 15 Leben an Land. Mhm. Genau. Und was was da konkret gemacht wurde, ist, dass sie da halt ein Bienenstock steht und dieser Bienenstock wurde mit Sensorik ausgestattet. Das ist Sensorik, mit der unterschiedliche Sachen gemessen werden. Das ist Temperaturgewicht, Luftfeuchtigkeit in 'nem Bienenstock. Und diese Daten werden dann über Loravan quasi über dieses Netz gesendet. Das ist wie son mini lokales WLAN, ne. Ich hab das mal Genau. Also ich kann's jetzt nicht besser erklären. Du kannst es wahrscheinlich besser erklären, aber genau. Genau. So so kann man sich das vorstellen. Die Daten werden dann gesammelt, auch frei zur Verfügung gestellt. Das heißt, jeder Interessierte kann sich dann anschauen und übern Dashboard diese Daten beobachten, analysieren, auswerten. Wie's den Bienen geht. Kann man an diesen Indikatoren ableiten? Also zum Beispiel Genau. Bei Gewicht kann man merken, okay, wächst der Stamm oder werden's weniger, ne? Weil Weil einfach mehr Bienen wiegen mehr. Genau. So zum Beispiel. Genau. Dann gibt's ja die idealen Bedingungen, in denen die Bienen halt leben. Und entsprechend kann auch der Imker dann da variabel drauf reagieren, wenn er halt immer sieht, die Luftfeuchtigkeit ist zu hoch, sag ich mal und kann dagegen steuern. Ja. Ist auch dein Lieblingsprojekt, Mike, hast Du gesagt, ne? Absolut. Das, obwohl meine Tochter mal von der Wespe gestochen worden ist und seitdem alles, was so ähnlich aussieht, 'n bisschen Panik in der Familie aussiehst. Nein, ist 'n wunderbares Projekt, 'n klassisches Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt, kann man, glaub ich, sagen. Dementsprechend das, was ich eben mit Wirkungsorientierung gesagt habe, kann man hier 1 zu 1 anwenden und kann direkt von den von den Sustainable Development Goals aufwirken. Wirken. Genau, weil da ist sozusagen die Nachhaltigkeit eigentlich der Treiber und die Digitalisierung kommt assistierend dazu, ne. Genau. Das ist ja die Wertigkeit der Genau. Wertigkeit der Und da sieht man ja in diesem Projekt zum Beispiel durch die Offenlegung der Daten, die Datenverfügbarkeit oder auch die Berücksichtigung von Nachhaltigkeitskriterien in der Hardwarebeschaffung, dass man da dann direkt Digitalisierungsaspekte mit reindenken kann und muss. Also deswegen 'n wunderbares Beispiel. Wie habt ihr denn dann den Canvas genutzt in dem Projekt? Also weil Mike auch gerade schon sagte, also die Sensoren müssen ja beschaffen werden, da gibt's dann auch wieder Nachhaltigkeitskriterien. Also was hat die Benutzung der Kenntnis da so aufgedeckt? Genau. Also wir haben zum einen dadurch, dass es halt 'n klares Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt ist, in vielen Aspekten auch schon gemerkt, dass dass Nachhaltigkeit halt gut beachtet wird. Das geht halt ja auch über die über die Zielsetzung hinaus, also auch bei der Ressourcenbeschaffung, sagen wir, die Sensoren müssen ja gekauft werden. Und die Sensoren werden dann teilweise auch auch als Bildungsprojekt dann vor Ort irgendwie zusammengebaut mit mit den entsprechenden Mitschüler*innen, die daran interessiert sind. Beispielsweise bei den Sensoren wird darauf geachtet, dass sie energieeffizient sind, dass sie solarbetrieben sind, dass sie auch rückbaufähig sind. Solche Aspekte wurden halt alle schon beachtet. Wir haben dann aber gemerkt, dass in der sozialen Dimension mit den Kriterien, die da liegen, dass da noch Potenzial gibt. Also wir haben dann festgestellt, dass das Dashboard, was sie da entwickelt haben, zum Beispiel noch nicht barrierefrei ist. Mhm. Aber insgesamt und das haben wir dann auch bei der Folgenabschätzung gemerkt, dass das halt schon also schon vielerlei Hinsicht 'n Vorzeigeprojekt. Eine Sache, die da noch aufgefallen ist, war mit der Beschaffung der Sensoren, wo sie halt festgestellt haben, dass sie die teilweise aus aus aus China, glaub ich, ein eingekauft haben. Und die ganzen Aspekte, die so mit Lieferketten zusammenhängt, dass sie die nicht zurückverfolgen konnten. Aber das ist irgendwie auch Weil das einfach schwer ist. Genau, genau. Wobei man da keine, weiß ich nicht, Siegel hat oder so was. Exakt. Da darf, genau und da ist es gibt ja auch auf auf europäischer Lieferkettengesetz und ganze Thematik, aber das ist eben verdammt schwierig in der Praxis dann irgendwie fest sicherzustellen, dass die Sachen, die ich da jetzt gekauft habe, auch tatsächlich meinen ökologischen Werten quasi entsprechen. Ja, okay. Was ich natürlich auch besonders spannend daran finde, ist die direkte Verbindung dann halt in Lern- und Lehrangebote Ja. Hinein. Also dieses Projekt an sich schon auf Nachhaltigkeitsziele, auf ein ganz wichtiges Nachhaltigkeitsziel Biodiversität letztlich einzahlenend. Und das dann nicht nur als Projekt so stehenzulassen, sondern gleich durch die Datenverfügbarkeit auf der einen Seite und durch die Bildungsangebote auf der anderen Seite, das gleich in die Breite zu bringen. Das find ich schon sehr beeindruckend. Genau, also das sind Daten, da könnte zum Beispiel jemand eine Doktorarbeit mitschreiben oder so was, ne, weil man kommt einfach ran an die Daten und die Schüler und Schülerinnen Genau, also der der Plan ist auch, das Projekt, glaube ich, noch größer zu aufzuziehen. Ich weiß nicht genau, in welchem, weil das jetzt nicht mehr verfolgt hab, aber ich weiß auf jeden Fall, dass die Idee da war, das auf mehrere Bienenstücke auszuweiten und auch anderen Kommunen anzubieten und darüber dann halt mehr Daten zu sammeln, mehr Daten Ja. Generell besser. Und eventuell dann auch, wenn man sich vorstellt, man möchte jetzt eine eine Strategie zum zur Biodiversität entwickeln, also 'n politische, dass dass man dann halt auf diesen Datenschatz zurückgreifen kann. Ja. Das war so der die Hoffnung, die dahinter ja auch 'n bisschen gesteckt hat. Damit wird es dann ja auch auf der Seite dann zum Warendigitalisierungsprojekt, dann reden wir über Interporabilität, über Metadaten, über Datenschnittstellen und so weiter. Du meinst, sobald man die über Metadaten, über Datenschnittstellen und so weiter. Du meinst, sobald man die Daten anfängt miteinander zu verknüpfen und vergleichbar zu machen Schon die Bereitstellung, ne? Muss man das ja schon alles mitdenken oder das sollte man. Ja, das ist ambitioniert, wenn dann verschiedene Bienenstöcke in verschiedenen Kommunen miteinander kommunizieren sollen. Wenn die das schaffen? Bienen können da auch miteinander kommunizieren, das kann nicht so schwer sein. Okay, also das war jetzt 'n ganz klassisches Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt, leuchtet sofort ein, dass Bienen und Nachhaltigkeit zusammenhängen. Jetzt gibt's 'n anderes Projekt, da denkt man gar nicht sofort an Klimawandel oder Ressourcensparsamkeit, und zwar das virtuelle Bauamt im Landkreis Ober Spreewald Lausitz. Das ist jetzt 'n Vorhaben, das ist schon abgeschlossen und worum geht's denn bei dem virtuellen Bauamt? Genau. Das war 'n Testpilot vom Land Brandenburg und OSL, das Hochschulspremel Lausitz war halt damit beauftragt, diesen gesamten Prozess des Stellen 1 Bauantrages online zu ermöglichen. Und das geht halt von, der Bauherr möchte die ganzen Daten an die eingeben. Die müssen dann verarbeitet werden, müssen entsprechend auch vielleicht verwaltungsintern geteilt werden, beispielsweise das Katasteramt könnte Interesse an den Daten haben und so weiter. Und dann muss auch der Bescheid am Ende wieder digital an den Bauherrenherren zurückgehen. Und das dieser gesamte Prozess haben sie dann halt unter diesem virtuellen Bauamt zusammengefasst. Und wie Du schon richtig gesagt hast, das ist erst mal und das hatte ich ja auch am Anfang gesagt, wir gucken uns hier nicht nur 'n Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt an. Das ist ja erst mal kein klassisches Nachhaltigkeitspreis. Nee, ist ja son richtig klassisches Digitalisierungsprojekt, wo die Gefahr wäre, dass die Nachhaltigkeit am Ende son bisschen noch dran ornamentiert wird, im besten Fall. Im besten Fall, genau. Oder halt auch einfach nicht beachtet wird. Das kann natürlich auch sein, genau. Und aus diesem Grund haben wir das Projekt aufgenommen, mal da reinzuschauen, so zu schauen, ja, wird Nachhaltigkeit beachtet? Wenn ja, wie viel, wie viel auch vielleicht implizit. Also es kann ja auch sein, ne, dass wir dann merken, okay, wir haben jetzt hier diese krasse Nachhaltigkeitsbrille und gucken da drauf. Und die machen das aber schon, aber reden vielleicht auch gar nicht so sehr dadrüber. Das kann natürlich auch sein. Ja. Ornamentiert. Ich hab nur das Wort gelernt. Sehr schön. Wie Stuck. Genau, daran denk ich die ganze Zeit. Keine tragende Säule, aber schön. Ja. Und frag mich grad, wie nachhaltig Stuck ist. Das Themenfeld, wenn man das Themenfeld Bau insgesamt aufmacht, hat man natürlich noch ganz andere Nachhaltigkeitsaspekte, die man da berücksichtigen könnte. Ist halt eine andere Baustelle. Und da denk ich, nützt so ein Canvas auch, darauf zu fokussieren, was denn hier in diesem ganz konkreten Projekt wirklich die entscheidenden relevanten Punkte sind. Haben schon gesagt, Energieeffizienz von Bauten oder so was wäre sicherlich 'n wunderbarer Aspekt, aber darum geht's halt ja einfach Nee, darum geht's halt ja darum, sondern einfach nur wenige Teile und wenn Du mit Lehmbauweise baust, wird dein Antrag schneller bearbeitet. Das war nicht der Punkt, sondern Wäre aber mal eine gute Idee. Aber kleiner Teaser, das ist ja dann in dem dritten Projekt, was wir besprechen, vielleicht noch mal interessant. Da geht's ja dann tatsächlich Bau, ne. Ne. Ja. Also eine Immobilie. Hier haben wir ja jetzt diesen Prozess des Antragstellens und Okay. Und es ist 'n abgeschlossenes Projekt. Also es hat offensichtlich funktioniert. Also die Menschen in diesem Landkreis können das jetzt machen. Ich glaube, ganz ganz Brandenburg müsste das jetzt zur Verfügung führen. Das sei Testpilot in OSL und das ist jetzt, glaub ich, auf der Brandenburg Plattform verfügbar, wenn ich das richtig gesehen hab. Ja. Und jetzt mal konkret im Workshop. Also als ihr da gearbeitet habt mit der Canvas, was hat sich denn da so gezeigt? Ja, also bei dem Projekt hat sich gezeigt, dass es ganz schön eingebunden ist in die Anforderungen, die das Land gestellt hat. Mhm. Also die hatten gar nicht so viel Nein, die hatten relativ wenig Flexibilität in dem, was sie machen konnten. Weil wie gesagt, das war halt 'n Testpilot vom Land Brandenburg und entsprechend war das eingebettet in ganz Mengen Richtlinien, die sie erfüllen mussten. Es gab es gibt diese Schnittstelle, die sie abdecken müssen, damit es dann halt auch eingebunden werden kann in in den Landeskontext. Die Software, die Sie dann dafür beauftragt haben, beziehungsweise glaub ich, wo Sie sich Lizenzen für gekauft haben, Laut dem Workshop teilnehmen dann nur diesen einen Anbieter, den sie da nutzen konnten. Das heißt, da gab's auch gar nicht die Möglichkeit, jetzt beispielsweise nach Open Source Alternativen zu schauen, Mhm. Sondern sie mussten sich halt auf dieses Lizenzangebot einlassen. Generell war's halt 'n reines Softwareprojekt. Das heißt, all diese ökologischen Kriterien nach Materialproduktion so weit, werden auch eher zurückgestellt. Indirekt haben wir dann diskutiert, inwieweit jetzt die Server, die da in im Land bereitstehen, inwieweit da auf Energieeffizienz und so geachtet wird, beziehungsweise ob eventuell auch neue dazugekauft werden müssten, wenn das jetzt breit ausgerollt wird. Aber da gab's auch, glaub ich, noch keine klare kleine klare Erkenntnis zu. Mhm. Okay, also die Gestaltungsfreiheit war nicht so groß. Genau. Trotzdem oder gerade deshalb ist es natürlich superspannend, was die Einschätzung der der Beteiligten in dem Kontext ist. Also wir haben's ja erst eben gesagt, eine klassische OZG Umsetzung, die wir hier haben, klassisches Digitalisierungsprojekt. Onlinezugangsgesetz, Mike. Oder? Onlinezugangsgesetz Okay. Genau, wo wir diese magischen 575 Leistungen digitalisieren wollen und auch schon einige Fortschritte in dem Bereich gemacht haben. Und dann kann man jetzt mal einmal an einem relativ komplexen Antragsverfahren man einmal diese diese Nachhaltigkeitskriterien versuchen zu bewerten und hat damit natürlich auch Erkenntnisse, was das für die oder welche Wirkung die gesamte Digitalisierung in dem Bereich Mhm. Haben kann. Also es es lässt sich schon drüber eskalieren, was man da rausbekommen hat. Als Drittes würde ich gerne über das Multilokal Stocksee sprechen. Das ist das, was Du schon angeteast hast. Das ist nämlich eigentlich weder 'n Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt noch 'n Digitalprojekt, muss man sagen. Das ist 'n Bauprojekt. Wie habt ihr denn den Canvas da nutzen können? Genau, das war ein kleines Experiment, würd ich mal sagen, weil wir uns gefragt haben, diese Kriterien, die wir da aufgestellt haben, lassen sie sich eigentlich nur auf Digitalprojekte anwenden? Oder lassen sie sich vielleicht auf ganz klassische Kommunalprojekte auch anwenden, was halt in dem Fall jetzt hier die Renovierung und den Ausbau 1 Immobilie in kommunaler Hand ist. Okay, also dieses Multilokal, einfach damit man sich das mal vorstellen kann, da soll einfach 'n neuer Ort in 'nem ländlichen Raum, nehm ich mal an, etabliert werden. Genau, also es gibt es gibt diese Immobilie, also vor allem, das auch noch mal wichtig zu erwähnen, das Projekt befindet sich in Planung, also da ist noch nichts passiert, da ist momentan gerade die Ideenfindung. Und die haben halt nun mal in der Kommune diese eine alte Meierei, das ist eine, so wie ich das verstanden hab, eine baufällige Immobilie. Ich hab mich gefragt, was ist eine Meierei? Da wird was mit Milch gemacht. Ich kann's dir nicht genauer sagen. Wurde. Ja, wurde. Es steht halt einfach, ja, es steht halt einfach leer. Okay. Und die steht am Dorfplatz und der Dorfplatz ist ziemlich verweist. Und der Wunsch der Kommune wäre eigentlich, den wieder zu beleben. Mhm. Und eine Idee wäre dann halt, dieses Gebäude zu renovieren und auszubauen zu einem, deswegen heißt es Multilokal, zu einem multifunktionalen Ort, in dem halt verschiedene Sachen angeboten werden. Unter anderem 'n Co Working's place, son, Sie haben's multifunktionalen Ort genannt halt im unteren Bereich, Ostern vielleicht eine Bar, gibt so Hocker und verschiedene Spieleangebote, irgendwas, was halt die Menschen wieder stärker an diesen Dorf Platz bringt. Da stecken natürlich dann auch wieder ganz so viel Schwierigkeiten mit drin. Ganz zuvorderst natürlich die Finanzierung, weil sone die kleine Kommune halt wirklich finanziell nur begrenzte Mittel hat, da Okay. Was draus zu machen. Aber das klingt jetzt nach so Workshop Teilnehmenden, die vor vielen, vielen Herausforderungen stehen. Wie haben die dann reagiert, als ihr ihnen dann auch noch den Canvas vorgelegt habt und gesagt habt irgendwie, wir haben da ja noch was, worüber ihr nachdenken muss? Na ja, in dem Fall wars eher so als Inspiration zu verstehen, Ja. Weil wir ja noch so früh in der in der Planungsphase sind und dann war die Schwierigkeit, mit dem Canvas erst mal die richtige Flughöhe zu treffen. Mhm. Weil dadurch, dass es halt diesen Digitalhintergrund hat und zum Beispiel für den Co Working Space, der da geplant ist, wird eine Buchungsplattform gebraucht oder beziehungsweise die haben da schon eine im Kopf. Jetzt könnte man natürlich hingehen und sagen, wir wenden diesen die diesen Canvas vor allem auf diese Buchungsplattform an, ne. Und schauen uns da die Nachhaltigkeitskriterien an, aber das war ja gar nicht das Ziel. Weil das sozusagen das digitale Weil es das genau. Wäre. Genau, weil weil's ja irgendwie Also heutzutage 'n Projekt zu finden, was komplett ohne digital auskommt, fast schon selten würde ich mal vermuten. Also ist ja irgendwo spielt immer digital mit rein und man könnte sich natürlich diese Digitalaspekte rauspicken und die jetzt betrachten. Aber wir haben jetzt halt vor allem auf die Immobilie schauen wollen. Und da war dem dem Bürgermeister in dem Workshop, der dem war ganz wichtig, dass die Kommune vorangeht, was Nachhaltigkeit angeht. Also bei dem Ausbau der Immobilie war ihm halt ganz wichtig, dass diese klassischen Nachhaltigkeitsaspekte bei 'ner bei 'ner Renovierung beachtet werden. Also dass sozusagen die Leute dann nicht sagen können, wieso, wenn soll ich eine Wärmepumpe einbauen, wenn ihr keine habt? Genau. Oder so. Ex. Genau. Sone sone sone Sachen. Und deswegen war war ihm da 'n großer, also hat er da 'n großen Schwerpunkt draufgelegt. Und ansonsten halt diese ganzen Punkte, wenn wir da 'n multifunktionalen Ort einrichten wollen, aber vermutlich nicht das Geld haben werden, da immer jemanden vor Ort zu haben, der aufpassen kann, was da passiert, dass es dann son bisschen Konflikte geben kann. Wir haben's dann ja unter dem Kriterium Sicherheit diskutiert zum Beispiel, ne. Also wie viel Freiraum will man den Menschen vor Ort dann eigentlich geben, was sie mit diesem Ort anstellen können, ne? Weil Vandalismus wär zum Beispiel dann wieder 'n Risiko. Muss man deswegen Kameras installieren, aber Kameras würden dann wieder so so Sone Atmosphäre Genau. Son bisschen Misstrauen Es ist ja auch so. So. Da gab's dann wieder eine ganze Reihe von Konflikten, die wir so auf dieser sozialen Ebene andiskutiert haben. Mhm. Ja. Ich würde gerne noch dein deine Ursprungsfrage 'n bisschen umdrehen. Ich würd sie ganz gerne andersrum stellen wollen. Du hast ja gesagt, das ist ja ein ein gigantisches Risiko, dass man solche Kriterien wie Nachhaltigkeitskriterien dann noch mal oben dranpappt und damit dann Ja, man hat vielleicht schon den Denkmalschutz am Hals wegen der Altenmalerei und so weiter. Genau. Genau. Genau. Das ist 'n gewaltiges Risiko und der Ansatz hier ist ja genau, das Spiel umzudrehen. Nämlich diese Nachhaltigkeitskriterium zum in diesem Fall ja auch für die Projektentwicklung wichtigen Aspekt zu machen, zum integralen Bestandteil. Und man darf ja auch nicht vergessen, dass diese Erreichung der Nachhaltigkeitsziele ja auch einfach im Sinne der Wirkungsorientierung auch wieder auch einfach Vorteile für das Projekt und für die Projektdurchführenden mit sich bringt. Also wenn ich wirtschaftliche Nachhaltigkeitskriterien erfülle, dann steht das Projekt normalerweise aus solideren Füßen. Ist grade bei fürn an schwachen Kommunen natürlich ganz besonders wichtig. Ja. Also deswegen oder man sollte ein bisschen dahin kommen, ist nicht als Add on, als obendrauf, nicht als Verzierung am Rande, als Ornament zu verstehen, sondern halt als integralen Bestandteil des des Planungsprozesses, wenn man grade so früh in dem Stadium steckt. Okay. Ja. Gut, also all das kann man nachlesen in der aktuellen Veröffentlichung. Ihr seid sozusagen zurückgekehrt zum Papierformat, also ihr habt mit der Canvas angefangen, seid dann in die Praxis gegangen, seid jetzt zurück in der Dokumentation. Warum war euch das denn auch wichtig, diese Anwendungsfälle dann zu dokumentieren? Zweierlei. Also das eine ist, dass das einfach so ist, wie wir arbeiten. Also ich mein, da muss 'n Papier bei rauskommen. Das ist unsere eigene Wirkungsorientierung. Ja, so möchte ihr das mit dem KPI Papier. Genau. Wir müssen einfach x Papiere produzieren und deswegen war das auf jeden Fall von Anfang an mit drin. Nach den Workshops würden wir die noch mal zusammenführen. Aber wir haben natürlich auch damit 'n klares Vernetzungsangebot, ne. Also wir wir zeigen diese Beispiele. Wir verlinken auf die Projektseiten. Wir hoffen, dass da Interessierte diese Projekte entweder als Inspiration lesen oder sich vielleicht auch tatsächlich melden bei den Projektverantwortlichen, vielleicht eigene Projekte zu initiieren. Also aus dem Aspekt heraus find ich, ist es auf jeden Fall sinnvoll, da noch mal 'n halt diesen Impuls zu schreiben. Und wir haben dann nachher nach hinten heraus ja auch noch 2, 3 Handlungsempfehlungen, die quasi diese Projekte zusammenführen. Genau, das find ich spannend. Also ihr habt aus diesem aus diesen 5 sehr, sehr unterschiedlichen Projekten und Workshops habt ihr so was Generelles ableiten können sozusagen. Genau, das war auch von Anfang an das Ziel. Also Ja. Klar, das eine war, dass wir für uns noch mal reflektiert haben, wie wir vielleicht auch die Chemnitzmethodik anpassen können, aber das war jetzt nicht Ziel in den Handlungsempfehlungen. Handlungsempfehlungen waren ja eher nach außen gerichtet, noch mal zu schauen, was können wir eigentlich mitgeben? Da haben sich eigentlich so 3 Sachen, würd ich sagen, rauskristallisiert. Das ist zum einen, dass wir zumindest den Eindruck hatten, dass die SDGs auf der hohen Flughöhe, wie sie jetzt halt auf auf UN Ebene existieren, für die Kommunen wirklich nur begrenzt sinnvoll sind, grade auch wenn's dann nach Richtung KPIs geht. Es gibt ja verschiedene Länderstrategien, wo die dann konkretisiert werden und für den eigenen Kontext irgendwie adaptiert. Die sind das auf jeden Fall schon viel sinnvoller. Aber man kann das ja noch weiter runterbrechen, ne. Also dass sich da vielleicht auch mal eine eine Kommune sich Gedanken macht, welche SDGs sind für mich jetzt in meinem Kontext ganz Also ich grad mal auf den 21 irgendwie die zentralen 17 17 nicht raus. 17, genau. Ja. Aber auch da ist es natürlich großartig, diese Basis zu haben, die man sich konkretisieren lässt und dann halt sich zu überlegen, wie kann ich vor Ort möglicherweise Staaten beim Einfachsten erfassen. Genau, also ich bin ja großer Fan davon, das nicht, aber ich würd's halt wünschen, dass Du noch häufiger nach unten nennen durch Ja. Also das ist die erste Handlungsempfehlung, dass man sagt, macht Nachhaltigkeit konkreter und damit anwendbarer. Genau und denkt bestimmt die entsprechende Indikator dazu. Mhm. Okay. Den größten Mehrwert, den ich in den Workshops empfunden habe, war eigentlich, wenn die Teams da zusammengekommen sind und darüber diskutiert haben. Mhm. Einfach dieser Austausch, grade auch in den kleinen Teams. Wenn man dann als ich hab jetzt ein konkretes Thema, sei es die Barriere, vor allem meine Anwendung. Und ich diskutier jetzt darüber immer mit 10 Minuten und bring die verschiedenen Perspektiven da zusammen und sehe, an den und den Stellen hapert es vielleicht noch oder aber da hat dann direkt jemand eine Idee dazu gehabt. Und das könnten wir doch eigentlich so und so machen. Also einfach mal, und es waren ja nur 3 Stunden, die wir da in den in den Workshops hatten, aber ich hatte schon 'n Eindruck, dass da viel, ja, in den meisten Fällen viel positive Energie dabei war und auch vielleicht nur diesen kleinen Impuls mal gebraucht hatte, sich mal die Zeit zu nehmen, darüber zu reden. Also, dass es gut ist, einfach diese Gespräche über Nachhaltigkeit zu führen, weil die produktiv sind und man's sonst nicht macht. Also es macht 'n Raum auf, Ja. Der dem Projekt guttut sozusagen. Genau. Okay. Also das wär sozusagen die zweite Handlungsempfehlung. Macht das, setzt euch hin, sind gut investierte 2, 3 Stunden sozusagen. Genau. Muss ja gar nicht mal unsere Canvas Open World sein, sagen wir ja gar nicht, aber einfach nur diese diese Idee zu sich Ja. Mal herzunehmen. Genau. Und das Dritte ist eigentlich, den Bogen dann zu Ende und den Kreis zu schließen, das, was wir eigentlich, mit dem wir auch gestartet sind, Nachhaltigkeit eben nicht als Zusatzaufgabe zu verstehen, sondern Integral in die Projekte einzubinden. Und weil das dann nicht mehr als Mehraufwand begriffen werden muss. Jetzt habt ihr diese 5 Projekte begleitet, habt das dokumentiert. Den Canvas gibt's ja weiter. Ich glaube, auch in der weiterentwickelten Form. Also das heißt, da kann man weiterhin damit arbeiten. Ja, genau. Also das Canvas ist sowohl analog noch in unserer im Impulspapier oder in unserem Whitepaper als auch als Onlinetool kostenlos über unsere Website aufzurufen. Das Tool ist so weiterentwickelt, dass wir hoffen, dass es eigenständig auch in in in Teams genutzt werden kann. Wir sind natürlich auch immer, wenn's Nachfragen gibt, kann man sich einfach an unsere iffid Mail wenden und wir sind auch immer gerne bereit, irgendwie auch mal in in 'ner kleinen Runde Dinge zu erklären. Und unsere Hoffnung ist halt, dass das Canvas nicht nur auf kommunaler Ebene Anwendung findet, sondern vielleicht auch auf Landes- oder Bundesebene mal ausprobiert werden kann. Weil wenn auch die Anforderungen der andere sind, das Canvas aus unserer Sicht, wir können auch da Anwendung finden. Ja, okay. Das wär natürlich total spannend. Und dann auch immer gerne Rückmeldung an uns, weil's irgendwas funktioniert hat oder nicht. Ja. Das Kann man's noch mal anpassen und noch übersichtlicher machen. Genau. Und die Nachhaltigkeitsanforderungen bleiben natürlich bestehen, ja. Die werden uns nicht erspart bleiben, deswegen nur der Aufruf noch mal, es möglichst bereit zu verwenden und dann auch gleich Wirkungsorientierung mit in die Projekte reinzudenken. Okay, danke euch. Das war schön, auch mal son son Zyklus zu Ende gehen zu gehen und zu gucken, nicht nur, was haben wir in die Welt gesetzt, sondern auch, was ist dann draus geworden? Total spannend. Vielen Dank. Vielen Dank. Dankeschön. Nachhaltigkeit und Digitalisierung zusammen gedacht, das war unser Thema heute bei restart digital. Mit dabei waren meine Kollegen vom Fraunhofer Kompetenzzentrum öffentliche IT, Mike Weber und Dorian Wachsmann. Den Nachhaltigkeitscanvas findet ihr zusammen mit vielen weiteren Impulsen zum Thema Digitalisierung im öffentlichen Sektor auf unserer Webseite öFIT Punkt d e mit o e geschrieben. Wenn euch der Podcast gefallen dann empfehlt uns gerne weiter und wenn ihr's noch nicht getan habt, könnt ihr uns auch kostenfrei abonnieren auf Spotify, Apple Podcasts und vielen weiteren Portalen. Ich bin Franziska Walser, vielen Dank fürs Zuhören und bis bald.", "confidence": 0.99609375, "words": [ { "word": "wer", "start": 1.92, "end": 2.24, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Wer", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.8876139 }, { "word": "unseren", "start": 2.24, "end": 2.56, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "unseren", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.8876139 }, { "word": "podcast", "start": 2.56, "end": 3.06, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Podcast", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.8876139 }, { "word": "restart", "start": 3.12, "end": 3.62, "confidence": 0.83496094, "punctuated_word": "restart", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.8876139 }, { "word": "digital", "start": 3.6799998, "end": 4.08, "confidence": 0.9892578, "punctuated_word": "digital", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.8876139 }, { "word": "regelmäßig", "start": 4.08, "end": 4.58, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "regelmäßig", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 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digital regelmäßig hört, dem wird unser heutiges Thema vielleicht bekannt vorkommen. Wir sprechen heute über den Nachhaltigkeitscanvers. Das ist ein Tool, das Akteurinnen aus dem öffentlichen Sektor dabei unterstützen soll, Digitalisierungsprojekte nachhaltig zu gestalten. Das Ziel ist es, die beiden Transformationsthemen Nachhaltigkeit und Digitalisierung zusammenzudenken, und zwar so, dass sich daraus keine Überforderung ergibt, sondern eine Entlastung. Heute gibt es ein Update zur Nachhaltigkeitskennvas, sozusagen ein was wurde aus, denn das Tool, das wir 2023 besprochen haben, ist inzwischen in der Praxis angekommen.\n\nEs hat sich weiterentwickelt und darüber werden wir sprechen mit vielen Beispielen aus der Praxis. Ich bin Franziska Weiser und bei mir im Studio sind, wie schon bei der ersten Folge zur Nachhaltigkeitskanvas, Dorian Wachsmann, wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter am Kompetenzzentrum öffentlicher IT mit Schwerpunkt auf nachhaltiger Digitalisierung und künstlicher Intelligenz. Hallo, Dorian.\n\nSpeaker 1: Hallo, danke, dass ich da sein darf.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und auch wieder dabei Doktor Mike Weber, Trendforscher und stellvertretender Leiter des öfid. Mike, hallo.\n\nSpeaker 2: Hallo Franziska.\n\nSpeaker 0: Lass uns doch noch mal kurz zurückblicken auf die Ausgangssituation, also 2022, 23. Was war denn der Anlass dafür, dass ihr den Nachhaltigkeitskanvas überhaupt entwickelt habt? Was gab's da fürn Bedarf?\n\nSpeaker 1: Wir haben dann in 'nem Paper dargelegt, dass es eben, also wir haben das natürlich nicht selbst entwickelt, sondern wir haben so die die Diskussion aufgegriffen und haben halt niederei Dimensionen aufgemacht, die Nachhaltigkeit besitzt. Und haben für jede dieser Dimensionen Kriterien zusammengesammelt von den Vorarbeiten, die's auch wieder gab. Also die Gesellschaft für Informatik hatte damals schon Kriterienkatalog entwickelt und andere Akteure auch. Und wir dachten uns, dass es eigentlich schön wäre, 'n Tool zu entwickeln, was möglichst niedrigschwellig ist. Also mit dem auch beispielsweise Kommunen mit begrenzten Ressourcen hingehen können und sagen, okay, wir sind jetzt 'n kleines Team.\n\nWir haben wir wollen dieses Projekt umsetzen, dieses Digitalisierungsprojekt und wir wollen so gut es geht dabei Nachhaltigkeit mitdenken.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Genau, wir hatten das damals auch Genau. Dieses son großes Poster, ne. Wir hatten das damals auch im Studio und da kann man dann sehr übersichtlich quasi Felder ausfüllen und dann wie sone Art Check machen, oder?\n\nSpeaker 1: Das war die Idee. Wir sind von dem Businessmodel Canvas ausgegangen. Das ist die ähnliche Idee, wo man im Endeffekt diese neuen Felder hat, die man nacheinander ausfüllen kann. Und am Ende hat man eine Übersicht über das eigene Businessmodell. Und wir wollten dieses Businessmodel Canvas halt von Idee aufgreifen, aber für Nachhaltigkeit Nachhaltigkeit und Digitalisierung adaptieren.\n\nGenau. Und da sind dann diese Felder draus entstanden, die halt diese 2 grundsätzlichen Perspektiven zusammenbringen, die wir in dem Paper dann auch noch mal erörtern. Und zusätzlich dann auch die ganze Folgenabschätzung und Evaluation nach hinten raus, halt 'n Gesamteindruck von dem Projekt zu bekommen und eventuell idealerweise Möglichkeiten zu identifizieren, wie man Nachhaltigkeit in 'nem eigenen Digitalisierungsprojekt stärken kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau und wenn Sie uns jetzt zuhören und sich fragen, was sind denn eigentlich die 3 Säulen der Nachhaltigkeit, dann gerne zurückscrollen im Podcastfeed, genau, da haben wir sehr ausführlich drüber geredet 2023. Diese 2 Perspektiven, die Du gerade meintest, das da geht's ja darum, dient die Digitalisierung der Nachhaltigkeit und sind die digitalen Tools, die ich einsetze, auch nachhaltig, ne? Genau. Das sind diese beiden Perspektiven. Also ich glaub, wir haben das damals das Wozu und das womit genannt son bisschen, ne?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Noch mal 'n kurzes Beispiel, zum Beispiel, wenn ich eine KI hab, die unglaublich aufwendig energiefressend trainiert wurde, 'n sehr kleines, weiß ich nicht, Energieeffizienzproblem zu lösen, dann ist es halt vielleicht am Ende nicht nachhaltig, ne? Wär ja\n\nSpeaker 1: wär ja schon schön, wenn da eine Energieeffizienzproblem gelöst oder ich kann mir auch eine KI vorstellen, die ich mit extrem viel Daten trainiert hab und extrem viel Energie, die am Ende, weiß ich nicht, mehr Filmvorschläge macht, ne? Ja. Dann haben wir da überhaupt kein Nachhaltigkeitsziel und\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Unsere Idee war halt, uns auf die Sustainable Development Goals zu beziehen, ne? Die auch in Kommunen nah an Kommunen und in Landesstrategien ja häufig adressiert werden. Und zu sagen, okay, wenn ich 'n Digitalisierungsprojekt umsetze, will ich eigentlich schauen, wo verortet sich das dann in meinen Nachhaltigkeitszielen? Und dann auf 'ner anderen Ebene, wie Du ja auch beschrieben hast, ne. Wenn ich dann meine digitalen Tools einsetze, wie kann ich die eigentlich gestalten, dass sie halt in allen 3 Dimensionen möglichst nachhaltig sind?\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau, dass man beides im Blick behält.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Wir beziehen uns heute im Gespräch auf eine ÖFIT Veröffentlichung mit dem Titel Nachhaltigkeit in kommunalen Digitalprojekten, eine qualitative Analyse. Da schreibt ihr in der Einleitung noch mal, dass eben Nachhaltigkeit und Digitalisierung die 2 zentralen Herausforderungen unserer Zeit sind. Beide gleich dringlich, aber werden mit unterschiedlichem Tempo und Fokus verfolgt. Das ist ja vielleicht auch son bisschen son, ja, son sone Beobachtung aus jetzt, ne, von 2023 bis 2025, die liefen beide gleich.\n\nWas ist draus geworden? Und also ich les das 'n bisschen so in der Einleitung, dass Die Digitalisierung geht schnell voran und die Nachhaltigkeit haben wir son bisschen vergessen aufm Weg. Hab ich das richtig gelesen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Willst Du, sage ich? Also\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich widerspreche dir danach. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also also mein Eindruck ist, dass gerade jetzt auch auch nach der nach der Bundestagswahl und ist ja jetzt sehr viel Dynamik in dem ganzen Digitalisierungs Feld, Digitalpolitik. Es gibt jetzt 'n eigenes Ministerium. Irgendwie die Energie ist auf jeden Fall da. Es wird viel gemacht, auch was was so die Umsetzung angeht, OZG und so. Das gibt es ja, also ist ja einfach Fortschritt zu beobachten.\n\nUnd andererseits ist zumindest mein Eindruck jetzt gewesen, dass diesem ganze das ganze Nachhaltigkeitsthema durchaus eher stiefmütterlicher behandelt wird, sag ich mal.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Also so Cherry on the cake kann man's nicht. Ja, ex\n\nSpeaker 1: ex ex ex.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wenn wir noch Kapazitäten haben, machen wir das auch noch.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wir sehen ja in einigen Bereichen so so backlash artige Bewegungen, wo Themen, die vor 'n paar Jahren extrem en vogue waren, sag ich mal, also jetzt eben nicht mehr sind. Und da wollten wir auch mit diesem Impuls noch mal 'n Stoß in die Richtung, eben Nachhaltigkeit doch auch wieder aktiver zu betrachten. Jetzt darf man\n\nSpeaker 2: Und jetzt würde ich gerne ein ganz klein bisschen widersprechen. Also wenn man sich die politischen Diskurse anguckt, dann sehe ich das oder beobachte ich das ganz genauso und Nachhaltigkeit kommt erstaunlich selten mittlerweile als Thema in politischen Reden vor. Oder auch wenn man sich die Klimaschutzziele anguckt, da steht dann irgendwo im Koalitionsvertrag, die halten wir ein, aber wie und mit welchen Instrumenten ist es, da wird's dann schon sehr dünn. Also ja, auf dieser politischen Ebene auf jeden Fall. Aber zum einen ist das Thema halt aus meiner Sicht durchaus schon angekommen.\n\nDas zeigen auch so die Beispiele, die ihr da ausgearbeitet habt. Also das Thema ist durchaus auf der Arbeitsebene angekommen und wird da auch berücksichtigt. Das ist das eine und das andere ist, im ganz anderen Kontext kommt so etwas wie Nachhaltigkeitsbetrachtung, Wirkungsbetrachtung jetzt wieder in die Diskussion sehr stark rein. Wirkungsorientierung vom staatlichen Handeln ist im Moment ein Riesenthema. Und da sind Nachhaltigkeitsziele einmal ein ganz wesentlicher Bereich, den man betrachten kann, grade dann, wenn man natürlich Nachhaltigkeitsprojekte beobachtet, dann ist man quasi direkt in der Wirkungsanalyse drin.\n\nMhm. Aber auch für unintendierte Folgen, also nutz ich jetzt die Mega KI, irgend 'n Kleinkram damit zu erledigen. Also solche solche nicht beabsichtigten Nebenwirkungen kann ich damit natürlich wunderbar untersuchen. Und deswegen im Bereich der Nachhaltigkeit sind wir in Fragen der Wirkungsorientierung schon viel weiter als in anderen Bereichen. Also wir können heute, auch wenn es vielleicht politisch nicht mehr en vogue ist, aber wir können auf der operativen Ebene unheimlich viel lernen aus der Nachhaltigkeitsdiskussion.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Und wir sprechen ja eben auch nicht über die politischen Reden, wir sprechen ja über die Handlungsebene bei den Kommunen sozusagen und das kann ja sich da vielleicht noch mal ganz anders darstellen, ne. Vielleicht ist es den Leuten einfach wichtig und sie machen's und sie sind ja auch durch bestimmte Vorgaben dazu angehalten. Das ist ja auch nicht so, dass man sich da frei entscheiden kann, sondern gibt's ja Vorgaben.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, es gibt immer mehr Vorgaben, was Beschaffung angeht. Es gibt auch vermeintlich Planungsrat, Gruppen Green IT, die haben ja auch Richtlinien und so weiter entwickelt. Es gibt auf jeden Fall sehr viel. Aber die eine Sache nur, aber ich mein, das ist ja auch gewissermaßen unrealistisch. Aber wenn man sich die Agenda 20 30 anguckt, also eben diese SDGs, die Ziele, gibt's ja jährliche Berichte, wie gut wir in der Erreichung sind.\n\nMhm. Und da sind wir halt nicht gut. Also da ist viel zu tun. Ich mein, die Ziele sind auch extrem hoch gesteckt und zu erwarten, dass man sie vollumfänglich erfüllt, ist vielleicht 'n bisschen utopisch, aber trotzdem. Also da könnte man noch viel mehr tun.\n\nJa.\n\nSpeaker 2: Die die anderen muss ich jetzt loslassen. Daran sieht man, wie gut die die Wirkungsmessung in dem Bereich schon ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dass man überhaupt sagen kann, dass wir das nicht so gut erreichen können.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, genau. Genau. Weil man\n\nSpeaker 0: das in anderen Bereichen vielleicht gar nicht sagen könnte.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Bereich der Digitalisierung wird das deutlich schwieriger. Wir versuchen's ja 'n bisschen, aber da ist das deutlich schwieriger zu fassen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie ist es auf der konkreten Projekebene? Also das ist ja auch 'n Problem, was der Canvas adressiert. Man könnte ja die Nachhaltigkeit bei Digitalisierungsprojekten son bisschen am Ende drüber deckeln sozusagen und ihr wollt ja, dass man die von Anfang an mitdenkt. Gibt's da Fortschritte?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also nachdem wir das Papier geschrieben haben, also unser erklärtes Ziel war ja, das möglichst niedrigschwellig zu halten und unser was, was wir dann zurückgemeldet bekommen haben, ist, dass es irgendwie noch zu kompliziert ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Dass\n\nSpeaker 1: es schwierig ist, da einzusteigen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also der Canvas war Ja, genau. Obwohl schon sehr runtergekocht, immer noch zu aufwendig Ja, also zu bearbeiten.\n\nSpeaker 1: So so war die Rückmeldung zumindest. Das heißt, wir haben dann im Anschluss versucht, das Tool auch noch online umzusetzen, dass es halt nicht auf Papier ist, sondern dass man damit eine Anleitung durchgeführt wird. Mhm. Wir haben aber gemerkt, dass auch da dann häufig einfach die die Ressourcen gefehlt haben, sich damit auseinanderzusetzen, intensiv da einzusteigen und dann im Team das zu bearbeiten. Was sich dann als am erfolgreichsten rausgestellt hat, was wir dann in in immer mal wieder so so so kleineren zwei-, dreistündigen Events mit mit Interessierten gemacht haben, ist halt einfach in 'nem Workshop zusammen Also\n\nSpeaker 0: wir füllen das zusammen aus.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wir füllen das mal zusammen aus. Wir erklären, wir sind für Rückfragen dann da. Mhm. Und da wir die ja diese Beobachtung gemacht haben, haben wir dann gesagt, warum nicht das Ganze noch mal strukturiert anhand von soner Reihe von Workshops durchgehen, durchsprechen und dann da zweierlei draus ziehen. Zum einen für uns vielleicht noch mal zu lernen, wie wir so was noch einfacher gestalten können und zum anderen dann halt auch den interessierten Kommunen zu helfen, diese Kenntnis anzuwenden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Also genau, es gibt immer noch das Ziel, dass man vielleicht mal 'n Tool hat, was man auch autark alleine anwenden kann, aber jetzt habt ihr erst mal Workshops gemacht, auch einfach das Tool zu verbessern, ne, und den Leuten zu helfen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Könnt ihr mal erzählen, wie die Workshops so ablaufen? Also wer wer kommt dahin? Fordern die das an? Wie bringt ihr's zu den Leuten?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also genau, wir haben wir haben das kennen wir's damals hier zusammen mit dem Beratungsunternehmen City und BITS entwickelt, die in den kommunalen Kontext sehr gut vernetzt sind. Und wir haben jetzt auch die Workshops wieder gemeinsam mit denen zusammen gemacht. Das heißt, sie haben in ihrem Netzwerk nach Kommunen angefragt, die da vielleicht Interesse dran hätten. Und wir hatten dann Rückmeldungen und haben dann ausgesucht nach Projekten, die möglichst unterschiedlich sind, die auch explizit nicht unbedingt rein nachhaltigkeitsbezogen sind. Das werden wir dann ja auch sehen, wenn wir in die Beispiele reingehen.\n\nWir haben jetzt auch das eine Projekt drin, was gar kein Digitalisierungsprojekt an sich ist, sondern eher son klassisches Kommunalentwicklungsprojekt. Einfach mal, zu sehen, ob das da eventuell auch Anwendungspotenzial hat. Und so haben wir dann jetzt 5 Projekte ausgesucht, die sich über 'n 'n 'n breites Spektrum abdecken. Und genau und dann in den, also ich kann auch gern gleich kurz beschreiben, wie son wie son Workshop ausgesehen hat oder\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, vielleicht, genau. Oder ich weiß nicht, vielleicht Mike, kannst Du noch mal erzählen, ist das ist das son übliches Vorgehen? Also oder ist das für euch auch neu gewesen, dass man sagt irgendwie, wir haben wir haben Tools und wir probieren das in 'nem Workshop aus? Und da gibt's eine Nachfrage für\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also das machen wir normalerweise schon, dass wir dann auf auf Tagungen, Konferenzen oder bei uns bei Besuchergruppen oder wie auch immer unsere Tools dann demonstrieren und vorstellen und dann natürlich auch das Feedback einsammeln, was kann man den Tools besser machen? Dass wir das so strukturiert wie in diesem Fall durchführen, also ganz gezielt mit Auswahl eine eine festgelegte Serie und auch mit Einfluss darauf, welche Projekte wir uns angucken. Das ist, glaub ich, in der iffid Geschichte einmalig in dieser Form. Das haben wir uns schon mal vorgenommen, aber diesmal haben wir's geschafft.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also dass die ja richtig wie sone Versuchsanordnung haben sozusagen Ja, genau. Damit. Mhm, okay. Ja, dann erzähl doch mal, wie die abgelaufen sind, die Workshops. 2 bis 3 Stunden, hast Du gesagt, ne?\n\nGenau, meistens eher doch 3 Stunden, weil's sich ja doch\n\nSpeaker 1: alles immer wieder zieht. Also wir hatten im Vorhinein 'n Workshopkonzept entwickelt, was sich in eigentlich 3 Teile geteilt hat. Zwar 'n erster kurzer Teil, der so als Impuls gedient hat, einmal die Sachen darzulegen, die halt einfach gebraucht werden. Das ist unser Verständnis von Nachhaltigkeit. Das ist unser Verständnis von dem dem Zusammenspiel von Nachhaltigkeit und Digitalisierung.\n\nUnd dann sind wir eigentlich in dem größten Teil des Workshops dieses Canvas wirklich durchgegangen, weil wir doch gemerkt haben, dass es zu viel Zeit kosten würde, das gesamte Canvas durchzugehen, dass wir den ersten Teil, den Steuerungsteil, wo es halt die Ziele geht, im Vorhinein schon abgesprochen hatten. Das heißt, wir hatten nach Inhalten gefragt, nach Projektbeschreibungen und Rahmenbedingungen. Und dann haben wir das den Kennvest Teil schon ausgefüllt gehabt und sind nur noch mal ganz kurz durchgegangen. Passt das alles so? Gibt's noch Anmerkungen, Verbesserungen oder haben wir da was falsch gemacht?\n\nDas heißt, das werden wir relativ schnell abgehakt und dann sind wir eigentlich, und es war wirklich der größte Teil, diese 21 Nachhaltigkeitskriterien, die sich über diese Säulen da ökologisch, ökonomisch und sozial ziehen, die wir damals zusammengetragen haben. Die sind wir wirklich Schritt für Schritt durchgegangen, haben jedes einzelne Kriterium kurz vorgestellt und haben dann eigentlich die Projekt Mitarbeitenden. Wir waren immer in 'ner größeren Gruppe, ne. Also es war nicht nur irgendwie der Projektverantwortliche Projektverantwortliche da und haben sie dann diskutieren lassen über dieses Kriterium, inwieweit das in ihrem Kontext überhaupt relevant ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Es kann ja sein, es spielt einfach überhaupt keine Rolle, irgendwie sauberes Wasser. Ja. Wir machen was ganz anderes, hat haben wir gar nichts damit zu tun. Genau. Genau, ja.\n\nDann haben\n\nSpeaker 1: wir auch motiviert zu sagen, wenn 'n Kriterium keine Rolle spielt, dann könnte es auch werfen, weil es gab dann teilweise die Tendenz, ja, wir konstruieren uns jetzt hier irgendwas.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und wir müssen wollen alles erfüllen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, aber das ist ja völliger Quatsch. Also es geht ja wirklich darum, wir haben ja möglichst breites Angebot mit den Kriterien. Und es geht ja auch darum, klar zu sagen, okay, das betrifft uns einfach nicht. Mhm. Und dann sind wir halt Schritt für Schritt diese 21 Kriterien durchgegangen.\n\nUnd bei jedem Kriterium wurde erst gefragt, betrifft es uns? Wenn wenn wenn ja, wie inwieweit? Wird es vielleicht auch schon umgesetzt? Und wenn ja, wenn nicht, gibt es Möglichkeiten, das eventuell bei uns perspektivisch umzusetzen. Mhm.\n\nImmer mit diesen diesen Schritt durch. Genau und dann, je nachdem, wie lang, das war ja 'n sehr hat teilweise sehr lange gedauert.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, 21 Kriterien ist auch erst mal eine Menge, ne, wenn man da Ja, das ist ja so über alles diskutiert, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Und auch wenn je größer das Team ist und dann mehr Input, dann kann man ja auch theoretisch über ein einzelnes Kriterium eine halbe Stunde reden, wenn's nicht wichtig ist. Aber dann, je nachdem, wie viel Zeit wir nach hinten raus hatten, sind wir dann halt noch in den Evaluationsteil gegangen und haben gefragt, okay, jetzt habt ihr diese Kriterien festgelegt. Wie wollt ihr die denn messen eigentlich? Das ist ja diese Frage nach den Key Performance Indikatoren.\n\nUnd da haben wir dann häufig gemerkt, dass da noch noch sehr, ich sag mal, noch noch viel Möglichkeit zur Verbesserung gibt. Also da ist ja häufig 'n ja noch noch 'n weißes weißes Feld gewesen, Aber auch großes Interesse, da drüber nachzudenken und zu sich zu fragen, okay, wie wie kann man so was eigentlich messen? Und dann bei ein oder bei 2 Projekten hat mir, glaub ich, dann am Ende auch noch eine Folgenabschätzung vorgenommen, wo wir dann halt gefragt haben über 3 verschiedene Zeithorizonte in den 3 Dimensionen, wie stellt ihr euch eigentlich vor? Welchen Impact kann euer Projekt haben? Im Positiven wie im Negativen?\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist ja diese Wirkungsorientierung im Prinzip, Mike, wo Du gerade gesagt hast, das ist gerade das große Ding.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist die ganz hohe Kunst der Wirkungsorientierung, ja. Und wenn man das dann noch schafft über diese Key Performance Indicator, wie er sie nennt, messbar zu machen und greifbar zu machen, das ist bei Impact 'n ganz schwieriges Feld. Deswegen habt ihr auch gefragt, oder was heißt die Nummer? Genau, also\n\nSpeaker 1: wir haben da wirklich Ich\n\nSpeaker 0: glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub,\n\nSpeaker 2: ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub,\n\nSpeaker 1: ich glaub, ich was stellt ihr euch denn vor? Was könnte denn sein? Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist\n\nSpeaker 1: ja auch meistens dann in der letzten Viertelstunde noch 'n bisschen passiert. Aber es war trotzdem interessant. Und auch zu sehen, dass die Projekte jetzt nicht nur Positives bei sich selbst auch festgestellt haben, sondern auch gesagt haben, na gut, beispielsweise bei der bei dem einen Projekt ging's ja Verkehrsaufkommen über übern Kanal. Wenn wir das jetzt optimieren, dann kann das natürlich auch dazu führen, dass erst mal der mehr Verkehr entsteht, ne?\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau, weil mehr Leute Auto fahren, weil sich denken, das läuft ja prima.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das kommt gut durch. Genau, also\n\nSpeaker 1: so sone sone Erkenntnisse gab's dann auch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und die Projekte waren ja in ganz unterschiedlichen Stadien, so wie ich's auch verstanden hab. Also manche waren noch so, also wir überlegen das zu machen, wir wissen noch gar nicht genau, ob wir's machen und manche waren schon sehr weit fortgeschritten. Da hat man, das ist ja auch 'n Unterschied, wie viel man dann überhaupt noch Einfluss nehmen kann, ne, zu dem Genau. Zeitpunkt, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also die Workshops sind ja auch alle letztes Jahr schon passiert. Das heißt, die Projekte sind jetzt im Nachhinein ja auch noch weiterentwickelt worden. Man meint, die sind jetzt fertig geworden und so. Aber ja, das war in in der Tat son bisschen ja, unterschiedlich. Ob es eher eine Retrospektive war oder eher eine was können wir eigentlich noch tun, Perspektive.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wobei natürlich man auch aus den abgeschlossenen Projekten dann wieder lernen kann, was man beim nächsten Mal anders machen kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Total, weil das sind ja immer dieselben Leute, ne und die machen dann das nächste Projekt. Also ja, genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, und auch original kann man ja offen lernen und dann Ja. Zum Beispiel das Indikatorensets zu sammeln, die ja teilweise, also zumindest bei einigen einigen Kriterien ja relativ eindeutig sind, Energieeffizienz oder Wiederverwertbarkeit. Das sind ja relativ klare Kriterien, die man beim nächsten Mal dann auch gleich wieder ansetzen kann, wenn man neues Projekt startet.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, dann geht's in 2 Stunden und nicht in 3 Stunden beim nächsten Mal.\n\nSpeaker 2: Na ja, wenn man am Anfang steht, haben wir vielleicht noch mehr Kriterien, die man diskutieren muss, könnt ich mir vorstellen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, aber dann lass doch mal in die in die Beispiele einsteigen. Also ihr stellt 5 Beispiele im Detail vor. Es waren aber mehr Workshops wahrscheinlich, ne. Also das sind jetzt 5, die habt ihr euch rausgegriffen, weil man die einfach besonders spannend waren.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, das waren tatsächlich genau die 5, die wir auch gemacht haben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, also das ist eure Versuchsanordnung.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wir hatten wir hatten, ich glaube, 10, 15 interessierte Kommunen und aus denen haben wir dann die 5 Kommunen ausgelöst, mit denen wir die Workshops halten wollen und die haben wir dann auch alle in dem Impuls berücksichtigt. Also wir haben jetzt keinen rausgeworfen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, okay, genau. Also die 5 stellt ihr alle vor in dieser Veröffentlichung. Ich würd jetzt gerne mal 3 rausgreifen, weil 5 'n bisschen den Rahmen sprengt und es gab so ein Projekt, das hat mich gleich neugierig gemacht, das heißt der digitale Bienenstock im Kreis Recklinghausen. Worum geht's denn da?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, es ist auch irgendwie, ich ich weiß gar nicht, wie ich das sagen darf, aber mein Lieblingsprojekt, einfach weil's weil's so schön ist, ne. Ich glaub, Bienen mag eigentlich jeder, glaube ich. Ja. Brücken Recklinghausen ist ein Projekt, was in Zusammenarbeit 'n starkes Sommerbett mit dem Hof Wessels entwickelt wurde. Der Hof Wessels ist ein Lernort für außerschulische Umweltbildung vom BNE.\n\nGenau, das heißt, das Projekt zahlt eigentlich auf zweierlei Ziele ein. Einmal gute Bildung, weil halt versucht wird, über das Projekt Umweltbildung Menschen zu bringen und zum anderen natürlich das Wohl der Bienen zu verbessern, also auf das Ziel, 15 Leben an Land. Mhm. Genau. Und was was da konkret gemacht wurde, ist, dass sie da halt ein Bienenstock steht und dieser Bienenstock wurde mit Sensorik ausgestattet.\n\nDas ist Sensorik, mit der unterschiedliche Sachen gemessen werden. Das ist Temperaturgewicht, Luftfeuchtigkeit in 'nem Bienenstock. Und diese Daten werden dann über Loravan quasi über dieses Netz gesendet.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist wie son mini lokales WLAN, ne. Ich hab das mal Genau. Also ich kann's jetzt nicht besser erklären. Du kannst es wahrscheinlich besser erklären, aber genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. So so kann man sich das vorstellen. Die Daten werden dann gesammelt, auch frei zur Verfügung gestellt. Das heißt, jeder Interessierte kann sich dann anschauen und übern Dashboard diese Daten beobachten, analysieren, auswerten.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie's den Bienen geht. Kann man an diesen Indikatoren ableiten? Also zum Beispiel Genau. Bei Gewicht kann man merken, okay, wächst der Stamm oder werden's weniger, ne? Weil Weil einfach mehr Bienen wiegen mehr.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. So zum Beispiel. Genau. Dann gibt's ja die idealen Bedingungen, in denen die Bienen halt leben. Und entsprechend kann auch der Imker dann da variabel drauf reagieren, wenn er halt immer sieht, die Luftfeuchtigkeit ist zu hoch, sag ich mal und kann dagegen steuern.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Ist auch dein Lieblingsprojekt, Mike, hast Du gesagt, ne?\n\nSpeaker 2: Absolut. Das, obwohl meine Tochter mal von der Wespe gestochen worden ist und seitdem alles, was so ähnlich aussieht, 'n bisschen Panik in der Familie aussiehst. Nein, ist 'n wunderbares Projekt, 'n klassisches Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt, kann man, glaub ich, sagen. Dementsprechend das, was ich eben mit Wirkungsorientierung gesagt habe, kann man hier 1 zu 1 anwenden und kann direkt von den von den Sustainable Development Goals aufwirken.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wirken. Genau, weil da ist sozusagen die Nachhaltigkeit eigentlich der Treiber und die Digitalisierung kommt assistierend dazu, ne. Genau. Das ist ja die Wertigkeit der Genau. Wertigkeit der Und da\n\nSpeaker 2: sieht man ja in diesem Projekt zum Beispiel durch die Offenlegung der Daten, die Datenverfügbarkeit oder auch die Berücksichtigung von Nachhaltigkeitskriterien in der Hardwarebeschaffung, dass man da dann direkt Digitalisierungsaspekte mit reindenken kann und muss. Also deswegen 'n wunderbares Beispiel.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie habt ihr denn dann den Canvas genutzt in dem Projekt? Also weil Mike auch gerade schon sagte, also die Sensoren müssen ja beschaffen werden, da gibt's dann auch wieder Nachhaltigkeitskriterien. Also was hat die Benutzung der Kenntnis da so aufgedeckt?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Also wir haben zum einen dadurch, dass es halt 'n klares Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt ist, in vielen Aspekten auch schon gemerkt, dass dass Nachhaltigkeit halt gut beachtet wird. Das geht halt ja auch über die über die Zielsetzung hinaus, also auch bei der Ressourcenbeschaffung, sagen wir, die Sensoren müssen ja gekauft werden. Und die Sensoren werden dann teilweise auch auch als Bildungsprojekt dann vor Ort irgendwie zusammengebaut mit mit den entsprechenden Mitschüler*innen, die daran interessiert sind. Beispielsweise bei den Sensoren wird darauf geachtet, dass sie energieeffizient sind, dass sie solarbetrieben sind, dass sie auch rückbaufähig sind.\n\nSolche Aspekte wurden halt alle schon beachtet. Wir haben dann aber gemerkt, dass in der sozialen Dimension mit den Kriterien, die da liegen, dass da noch Potenzial gibt. Also wir haben dann festgestellt, dass das Dashboard, was sie da entwickelt haben, zum Beispiel noch nicht barrierefrei ist. Mhm. Aber insgesamt und das haben wir dann auch bei der Folgenabschätzung gemerkt, dass das halt schon also schon vielerlei Hinsicht 'n Vorzeigeprojekt.\n\nEine Sache, die da noch aufgefallen ist, war mit der Beschaffung der Sensoren, wo sie halt festgestellt haben, dass sie die teilweise aus aus aus China, glaub ich, ein eingekauft haben. Und die ganzen Aspekte, die so mit Lieferketten zusammenhängt, dass sie die nicht zurückverfolgen konnten. Aber das ist irgendwie auch\n\nSpeaker 0: Weil das einfach schwer ist. Genau, genau. Wobei man da keine, weiß ich nicht, Siegel hat oder so was. Exakt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Da darf, genau und da ist es gibt ja auch auf auf europäischer Lieferkettengesetz und ganze Thematik, aber das ist eben verdammt schwierig in der Praxis dann irgendwie fest sicherzustellen, dass die Sachen, die ich da jetzt gekauft habe, auch tatsächlich meinen ökologischen Werten quasi entsprechen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Was ich natürlich auch besonders spannend daran finde, ist die direkte Verbindung dann halt in Lern- und Lehrangebote Ja. Hinein. Also dieses Projekt an sich schon auf Nachhaltigkeitsziele, auf ein ganz wichtiges Nachhaltigkeitsziel Biodiversität letztlich einzahlenend. Und das dann nicht nur als Projekt so stehenzulassen, sondern gleich durch die Datenverfügbarkeit auf der einen Seite und durch die Bildungsangebote auf der anderen Seite, das gleich in die Breite zu bringen. Das find ich schon sehr beeindruckend.\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau, also das sind Daten, da könnte zum Beispiel jemand eine Doktorarbeit mitschreiben oder so was, ne, weil man kommt einfach ran an die Daten und die Schüler und Schülerinnen\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, also der der Plan ist auch, das Projekt, glaube ich, noch größer zu aufzuziehen. Ich weiß nicht genau, in welchem, weil das jetzt nicht mehr verfolgt hab, aber ich weiß auf jeden Fall, dass die Idee da war, das auf mehrere Bienenstücke auszuweiten und auch anderen Kommunen anzubieten und darüber dann halt mehr Daten zu sammeln, mehr Daten Ja. Generell besser. Und eventuell dann auch, wenn man sich vorstellt, man möchte jetzt eine eine Strategie zum zur Biodiversität entwickeln, also 'n politische, dass dass man dann halt auf diesen Datenschatz zurückgreifen kann. Ja.\n\nDas war so der die Hoffnung, die dahinter ja auch 'n bisschen gesteckt hat.\n\nSpeaker 2: Damit wird es dann ja auch auf der Seite dann zum Warendigitalisierungsprojekt, dann reden wir über Interporabilität, über Metadaten, über Datenschnittstellen und so weiter. Du meinst, sobald man die über Metadaten, über Datenschnittstellen und so weiter.\n\nSpeaker 0: Du meinst, sobald man die Daten anfängt miteinander zu verknüpfen und vergleichbar zu machen\n\nSpeaker 2: Schon die Bereitstellung, ne? Muss man das ja schon alles mitdenken oder das sollte man.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, das ist ambitioniert, wenn dann verschiedene Bienenstöcke in verschiedenen Kommunen miteinander kommunizieren sollen. Wenn die das schaffen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Bienen können da auch miteinander kommunizieren, das kann nicht so schwer sein.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, also das war jetzt 'n ganz klassisches Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt, leuchtet sofort ein, dass Bienen und Nachhaltigkeit zusammenhängen. Jetzt gibt's 'n anderes Projekt, da denkt man gar nicht sofort an Klimawandel oder Ressourcensparsamkeit, und zwar das virtuelle Bauamt im Landkreis Ober Spreewald Lausitz. Das ist jetzt 'n Vorhaben, das ist schon abgeschlossen und worum geht's denn bei dem virtuellen Bauamt?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Das war 'n Testpilot vom Land Brandenburg und OSL, das Hochschulspremel Lausitz war halt damit beauftragt, diesen gesamten Prozess des Stellen 1 Bauantrages online zu ermöglichen. Und das geht halt von, der Bauherr möchte die ganzen Daten an die eingeben. Die müssen dann verarbeitet werden, müssen entsprechend auch vielleicht verwaltungsintern geteilt werden, beispielsweise das Katasteramt könnte Interesse an den Daten haben und so weiter. Und dann muss auch der Bescheid am Ende wieder digital an den Bauherrenherren zurückgehen.\n\nUnd das dieser gesamte Prozess haben sie dann halt unter diesem virtuellen Bauamt zusammengefasst. Und wie Du schon richtig gesagt hast, das ist erst mal und das hatte ich ja auch am Anfang gesagt, wir gucken uns hier nicht nur 'n Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt an.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist\n\nSpeaker 1: ja erst mal kein klassisches Nachhaltigkeitspreis. Nee, ist\n\nSpeaker 0: ja son richtig klassisches Digitalisierungsprojekt, wo die Gefahr wäre, dass die Nachhaltigkeit am Ende son bisschen noch dran ornamentiert wird, im besten Fall. Im\n\nSpeaker 1: besten Fall, genau. Oder halt auch einfach nicht beachtet wird. Das kann natürlich auch sein, genau. Und aus diesem Grund haben wir das Projekt aufgenommen, mal da reinzuschauen, so zu schauen, ja, wird Nachhaltigkeit beachtet? Wenn ja, wie viel, wie viel auch vielleicht implizit.\n\nAlso es kann ja auch sein, ne, dass wir dann merken, okay, wir haben jetzt hier diese krasse Nachhaltigkeitsbrille und gucken da drauf. Und die machen das aber schon, aber reden vielleicht auch gar nicht so sehr dadrüber. Das kann natürlich auch sein.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Ornamentiert. Ich hab nur das Wort gelernt. Sehr schön.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie Stuck.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, daran denk ich die ganze Zeit.\n\nSpeaker 0: Keine tragende Säule, aber schön.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Und frag mich grad, wie nachhaltig Stuck ist. Das Themenfeld, wenn man das Themenfeld Bau insgesamt aufmacht, hat man natürlich noch ganz andere Nachhaltigkeitsaspekte, die man da berücksichtigen könnte. Ist halt eine andere Baustelle. Und da denk ich, nützt so ein Canvas auch, darauf zu fokussieren, was denn hier in diesem ganz konkreten Projekt wirklich die entscheidenden relevanten Punkte sind.\n\nHaben schon gesagt, Energieeffizienz von Bauten oder so was wäre sicherlich 'n wunderbarer Aspekt, aber darum geht's halt ja einfach Nee, darum geht's halt ja darum, sondern einfach\n\nSpeaker 0: nur\n\nSpeaker 2: wenige Teile\n\nSpeaker 0: und wenn Du mit Lehmbauweise baust, wird dein Antrag schneller bearbeitet. Das war nicht der Punkt, sondern\n\nSpeaker 2: Wäre aber mal eine gute Idee.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber kleiner Teaser, das ist ja dann in dem dritten Projekt, was wir besprechen, vielleicht noch mal interessant. Da geht's ja dann tatsächlich Bau, ne. Ne. Ja. Also eine Immobilie.\n\nHier haben wir ja jetzt diesen Prozess des Antragstellens und\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Und es ist 'n abgeschlossenes Projekt. Also es hat offensichtlich funktioniert. Also die Menschen in diesem Landkreis können das jetzt machen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich glaube, ganz ganz Brandenburg müsste das jetzt zur Verfügung führen. Das sei Testpilot in OSL und das ist jetzt, glaub ich, auf der Brandenburg Plattform verfügbar, wenn ich das richtig gesehen hab.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Und jetzt mal konkret im Workshop. Also als ihr da gearbeitet habt mit der Canvas, was hat sich denn da so gezeigt?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also bei dem Projekt hat sich gezeigt, dass es ganz schön eingebunden ist in die Anforderungen, die das Land gestellt hat.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Also die hatten gar nicht so viel Nein,\n\nSpeaker 1: die hatten relativ wenig Flexibilität in dem, was sie machen konnten. Weil wie gesagt, das war halt 'n Testpilot vom Land Brandenburg und entsprechend war das eingebettet in ganz Mengen Richtlinien, die sie erfüllen mussten. Es gab es gibt diese Schnittstelle, die sie abdecken müssen, damit es dann halt auch eingebunden werden kann in in den Landeskontext. Die Software, die Sie dann dafür beauftragt haben, beziehungsweise glaub ich, wo Sie sich Lizenzen für gekauft haben, Laut dem Workshop teilnehmen dann nur diesen einen Anbieter, den sie da nutzen konnten. Das heißt, da gab's auch gar nicht die Möglichkeit, jetzt beispielsweise nach Open Source Alternativen zu schauen, Mhm.\n\nSondern sie mussten sich halt auf dieses Lizenzangebot einlassen. Generell war's halt 'n reines Softwareprojekt. Das heißt, all diese ökologischen Kriterien nach Materialproduktion so weit, werden auch eher zurückgestellt. Indirekt haben wir dann diskutiert, inwieweit jetzt die Server, die da in im Land bereitstehen, inwieweit da auf Energieeffizienz und so geachtet wird, beziehungsweise ob eventuell auch neue dazugekauft werden müssten, wenn das jetzt breit ausgerollt wird. Aber da gab's auch, glaub ich, noch keine klare kleine klare Erkenntnis zu.\n\nMhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, also die Gestaltungsfreiheit war nicht so groß. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Trotzdem oder gerade deshalb ist es natürlich superspannend, was die Einschätzung der der Beteiligten in dem Kontext ist. Also wir haben's ja erst eben gesagt, eine klassische OZG Umsetzung, die wir hier haben, klassisches Digitalisierungsprojekt. Onlinezugangsgesetz, Mike. Oder? Onlinezugangsgesetz Okay.\n\nGenau, wo wir diese magischen 575 Leistungen digitalisieren wollen und auch schon einige Fortschritte in dem Bereich gemacht haben. Und dann kann man jetzt mal einmal an einem relativ komplexen Antragsverfahren man einmal diese diese Nachhaltigkeitskriterien versuchen zu bewerten und hat damit natürlich auch Erkenntnisse, was das für die oder welche Wirkung die gesamte Digitalisierung in dem Bereich Mhm. Haben kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also\n\nSpeaker 2: es es lässt sich schon drüber eskalieren, was man da rausbekommen hat.\n\nSpeaker 0: Als Drittes würde ich gerne über das Multilokal Stocksee sprechen. Das ist das, was Du schon angeteast hast. Das ist nämlich eigentlich weder 'n Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt noch 'n Digitalprojekt, muss man sagen. Das ist 'n Bauprojekt. Wie habt ihr denn den Canvas da nutzen können?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, das war ein kleines Experiment, würd ich mal sagen, weil wir uns gefragt haben, diese Kriterien, die wir da aufgestellt haben, lassen sie sich eigentlich nur auf Digitalprojekte anwenden? Oder lassen sie sich vielleicht auf ganz klassische Kommunalprojekte auch anwenden, was halt in dem Fall jetzt hier die Renovierung und den Ausbau 1 Immobilie in kommunaler Hand ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, also dieses Multilokal, einfach damit man sich das mal vorstellen kann, da soll einfach 'n neuer Ort in 'nem ländlichen Raum, nehm ich mal an, etabliert werden.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, also es gibt es gibt diese Immobilie, also vor allem, das auch noch mal wichtig zu erwähnen, das Projekt befindet sich in Planung, also da ist noch nichts passiert, da ist momentan gerade die Ideenfindung. Und die haben halt nun mal in der Kommune diese eine alte Meierei, das ist eine, so wie ich das verstanden hab, eine baufällige Immobilie.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich hab mich gefragt, was ist eine Meierei?\n\nSpeaker 0: Da wird was mit Milch gemacht. Ich kann's dir nicht genauer sagen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wurde. Ja, wurde. Es steht halt einfach, ja, es steht halt einfach leer.\n\nSpeaker 2: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und die steht am Dorfplatz und der Dorfplatz ist ziemlich verweist. Und der Wunsch der Kommune wäre eigentlich, den wieder zu beleben. Mhm. Und eine Idee wäre dann halt, dieses Gebäude zu renovieren und auszubauen zu einem, deswegen heißt es Multilokal, zu einem multifunktionalen Ort, in dem halt verschiedene Sachen angeboten werden. Unter anderem 'n Co Working's place, son, Sie haben's multifunktionalen Ort genannt halt im unteren Bereich, Ostern vielleicht eine Bar, gibt so Hocker und verschiedene Spieleangebote, irgendwas, was halt die Menschen wieder stärker an diesen Dorf Platz bringt.\n\nDa stecken natürlich dann auch wieder ganz so viel Schwierigkeiten mit drin. Ganz zuvorderst natürlich die Finanzierung, weil sone die kleine Kommune halt wirklich finanziell nur begrenzte Mittel hat, da Okay. Was draus zu machen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber das klingt jetzt nach so Workshop Teilnehmenden, die vor vielen, vielen Herausforderungen stehen. Wie haben die dann reagiert, als ihr ihnen dann auch noch den Canvas vorgelegt habt und gesagt habt irgendwie, wir haben da ja noch was, worüber ihr nachdenken muss?\n\nSpeaker 1: Na ja, in dem Fall wars eher so als Inspiration zu verstehen, Ja. Weil wir ja noch so früh in der in der Planungsphase sind und dann war die Schwierigkeit, mit dem Canvas erst mal die richtige Flughöhe zu treffen. Mhm. Weil dadurch, dass es halt diesen Digitalhintergrund hat und zum Beispiel für den Co Working Space, der da geplant ist, wird eine Buchungsplattform gebraucht oder beziehungsweise die haben da schon eine im Kopf. Jetzt könnte man natürlich hingehen und sagen, wir wenden diesen die diesen Canvas vor allem auf diese Buchungsplattform an, ne.\n\nUnd schauen uns da die Nachhaltigkeitskriterien an, aber das war ja gar nicht das Ziel.\n\nSpeaker 0: Weil das sozusagen das digitale\n\nSpeaker 1: Weil es das genau. Wäre. Genau, weil weil's ja irgendwie Also heutzutage 'n Projekt zu finden, was komplett ohne digital auskommt, fast schon selten würde ich mal vermuten. Also ist ja irgendwo spielt immer digital mit rein und man könnte sich natürlich diese Digitalaspekte rauspicken und die jetzt betrachten. Aber wir haben jetzt halt vor allem auf die Immobilie schauen wollen.\n\nUnd da war dem dem Bürgermeister in dem Workshop, der dem war ganz wichtig, dass die Kommune vorangeht, was Nachhaltigkeit angeht. Also bei dem Ausbau der Immobilie war ihm halt ganz wichtig, dass diese klassischen Nachhaltigkeitsaspekte bei 'ner bei 'ner Renovierung beachtet werden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also dass sozusagen die Leute dann nicht sagen können, wieso, wenn soll ich eine Wärmepumpe einbauen, wenn ihr keine habt? Genau. Oder so. Ex. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sone sone sone Sachen. Und deswegen war war ihm da 'n großer, also hat er da 'n großen Schwerpunkt draufgelegt. Und ansonsten halt diese ganzen Punkte, wenn wir da 'n multifunktionalen Ort einrichten wollen, aber vermutlich nicht das Geld haben werden, da immer jemanden vor Ort zu haben, der aufpassen kann, was da passiert, dass es dann son bisschen Konflikte geben kann. Wir haben's dann ja unter dem Kriterium Sicherheit diskutiert zum Beispiel, ne. Also wie viel Freiraum will man den Menschen vor Ort dann eigentlich geben, was sie mit diesem Ort anstellen können, ne?\n\nWeil Vandalismus wär zum Beispiel dann wieder 'n Risiko. Muss man deswegen Kameras installieren, aber Kameras würden dann wieder so so Sone Atmosphäre Genau. Son\n\nSpeaker 0: bisschen Misstrauen Es ist ja auch so.\n\nSpeaker 1: So. Da gab's dann wieder eine ganze Reihe von Konflikten, die wir so auf dieser sozialen Ebene andiskutiert haben. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Ich würde gerne noch dein deine Ursprungsfrage 'n bisschen umdrehen. Ich würd sie ganz gerne andersrum stellen wollen. Du hast ja gesagt, das ist ja ein ein gigantisches Risiko, dass man solche Kriterien wie Nachhaltigkeitskriterien dann noch mal oben dranpappt und damit dann Ja, man hat vielleicht\n\nSpeaker 0: schon den Denkmalschutz am Hals wegen der Altenmalerei und so weiter. Genau. Genau. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist 'n gewaltiges Risiko und der Ansatz hier ist ja genau, das Spiel umzudrehen. Nämlich diese Nachhaltigkeitskriterium zum in diesem Fall ja auch für die Projektentwicklung wichtigen Aspekt zu machen, zum integralen Bestandteil. Und man darf ja auch nicht vergessen, dass diese Erreichung der Nachhaltigkeitsziele ja auch einfach im Sinne der Wirkungsorientierung auch wieder auch einfach Vorteile für das Projekt und für die Projektdurchführenden mit sich bringt. Also wenn ich wirtschaftliche Nachhaltigkeitskriterien erfülle, dann steht das Projekt normalerweise aus solideren Füßen. Ist grade bei fürn an schwachen Kommunen natürlich ganz besonders wichtig.\n\nJa. Also deswegen oder man sollte ein bisschen dahin kommen, ist nicht als Add on, als obendrauf, nicht als Verzierung am Rande, als Ornament zu verstehen, sondern halt als integralen Bestandteil des des Planungsprozesses, wenn man grade so früh in dem Stadium steckt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Ja. Gut, also all das kann man nachlesen in der aktuellen Veröffentlichung. Ihr seid sozusagen zurückgekehrt zum Papierformat, also ihr habt mit der Canvas angefangen, seid dann in die Praxis gegangen, seid jetzt zurück in der Dokumentation. Warum war euch das denn auch wichtig, diese Anwendungsfälle dann zu dokumentieren?\n\nSpeaker 1: Zweierlei. Also das eine ist, dass das einfach so ist, wie wir arbeiten. Also ich mein, da muss 'n Papier bei rauskommen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist unsere eigene Wirkungsorientierung.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, so möchte ihr das mit dem KPI Papier.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Wir müssen einfach x Papiere produzieren und deswegen war das auf jeden Fall von Anfang an mit drin. Nach den Workshops würden wir die noch mal zusammenführen. Aber wir haben natürlich auch damit 'n klares Vernetzungsangebot, ne. Also wir wir zeigen diese Beispiele.\n\nWir verlinken auf die Projektseiten. Wir hoffen, dass da Interessierte diese Projekte entweder als Inspiration lesen oder sich vielleicht auch tatsächlich melden bei den Projektverantwortlichen, vielleicht eigene Projekte zu initiieren. Also aus dem Aspekt heraus find ich, ist es auf jeden Fall sinnvoll, da noch mal 'n halt diesen Impuls zu schreiben. Und wir haben dann nachher nach hinten heraus ja auch noch 2, 3 Handlungsempfehlungen, die quasi diese Projekte zusammenführen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Genau, das find ich spannend. Also ihr habt aus diesem aus diesen 5 sehr, sehr unterschiedlichen Projekten und Workshops habt ihr so was Generelles ableiten können sozusagen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, das war auch von Anfang an das Ziel. Also Ja. Klar, das eine war, dass wir für uns noch mal reflektiert haben, wie wir vielleicht auch die Chemnitzmethodik anpassen können, aber das war jetzt nicht Ziel in den Handlungsempfehlungen. Handlungsempfehlungen waren ja eher nach außen gerichtet, noch mal zu schauen, was können wir eigentlich mitgeben? Da haben sich eigentlich so 3 Sachen, würd ich sagen, rauskristallisiert.\n\nDas ist zum einen, dass wir zumindest den Eindruck hatten, dass die SDGs auf der hohen Flughöhe, wie sie jetzt halt auf auf UN Ebene existieren, für die Kommunen wirklich nur begrenzt sinnvoll sind, grade auch wenn's dann nach Richtung KPIs geht. Es gibt ja verschiedene Länderstrategien, wo die dann konkretisiert werden und für den eigenen Kontext irgendwie adaptiert. Die sind das auf jeden Fall schon viel sinnvoller. Aber man kann das ja noch weiter runterbrechen, ne. Also dass sich da vielleicht auch mal eine eine Kommune sich Gedanken macht, welche SDGs sind für mich jetzt in meinem Kontext ganz\n\nSpeaker 0: Also ich grad mal auf den 21 irgendwie die zentralen 17 17 nicht raus. 17, genau. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber auch da ist es natürlich großartig, diese Basis zu haben, die man sich konkretisieren lässt und dann halt sich zu überlegen, wie kann ich vor Ort möglicherweise Staaten beim Einfachsten erfassen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, also ich bin ja großer Fan davon, das nicht, aber ich würd's halt wünschen, dass Du noch häufiger nach unten nennen durch Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also das ist die erste Handlungsempfehlung, dass man sagt, macht Nachhaltigkeit konkreter und damit anwendbarer.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau und denkt bestimmt die entsprechende Indikator dazu. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Den größten Mehrwert, den ich in den Workshops empfunden habe, war eigentlich, wenn die Teams da zusammengekommen sind und darüber diskutiert haben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Einfach dieser Austausch, grade auch in den kleinen Teams. Wenn man dann als ich hab jetzt ein konkretes Thema, sei es die Barriere, vor allem meine Anwendung. Und ich diskutier jetzt darüber immer mit 10 Minuten und bring die verschiedenen Perspektiven da zusammen und sehe, an den und den Stellen hapert es vielleicht noch oder aber da hat dann direkt jemand eine Idee dazu gehabt. Und das könnten wir doch eigentlich so und so machen. Also einfach mal, und es waren ja nur 3 Stunden, die wir da in den in den Workshops hatten, aber ich hatte schon 'n Eindruck, dass da viel, ja, in den meisten Fällen viel positive Energie dabei war und auch vielleicht nur diesen kleinen Impuls mal gebraucht hatte, sich mal die Zeit zu nehmen, darüber zu reden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also, dass es gut ist, einfach diese Gespräche über Nachhaltigkeit zu führen, weil die produktiv sind und man's sonst nicht macht. Also es macht 'n Raum auf,\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Der dem Projekt guttut sozusagen. Genau. Okay. Also das wär sozusagen die zweite Handlungsempfehlung. Macht das, setzt euch hin, sind gut investierte 2, 3 Stunden sozusagen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Muss ja gar nicht mal unsere Canvas Open World sein, sagen wir ja gar nicht, aber einfach nur diese diese Idee zu sich Ja. Mal herzunehmen. Genau. Und das Dritte ist eigentlich, den Bogen dann zu Ende und den Kreis zu schließen, das, was wir eigentlich, mit dem wir auch gestartet sind, Nachhaltigkeit eben nicht als Zusatzaufgabe zu verstehen, sondern Integral in die Projekte einzubinden.\n\nUnd weil das dann nicht mehr als Mehraufwand begriffen werden muss.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt habt ihr diese 5 Projekte begleitet, habt das dokumentiert. Den Canvas gibt's ja weiter. Ich glaube, auch in der weiterentwickelten Form. Also das heißt, da kann man weiterhin damit arbeiten.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, genau. Also das Canvas ist sowohl analog noch in unserer im Impulspapier oder in unserem Whitepaper als auch als Onlinetool kostenlos über unsere Website aufzurufen. Das Tool ist so weiterentwickelt, dass wir hoffen, dass es eigenständig auch in in in Teams genutzt werden kann. Wir sind natürlich auch immer, wenn's Nachfragen gibt, kann man sich einfach an unsere iffid Mail wenden und wir sind auch immer gerne bereit, irgendwie auch mal in in 'ner kleinen Runde Dinge zu erklären. Und unsere Hoffnung ist halt, dass das Canvas nicht nur auf kommunaler Ebene Anwendung findet, sondern vielleicht auch auf Landes- oder Bundesebene mal ausprobiert werden kann.\n\nWeil wenn auch die Anforderungen der andere sind, das Canvas aus unserer Sicht, wir können auch da Anwendung finden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, okay. Das wär natürlich total spannend.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und dann auch immer gerne Rückmeldung an uns, weil's irgendwas funktioniert hat oder nicht. Ja. Das Kann\n\nSpeaker 0: man's noch mal anpassen und noch übersichtlicher machen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und die Nachhaltigkeitsanforderungen bleiben natürlich bestehen, ja. Die werden uns nicht erspart bleiben, deswegen nur der Aufruf noch mal, es möglichst bereit zu verwenden und dann auch gleich Wirkungsorientierung mit in die Projekte reinzudenken.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, danke euch. Das war schön, auch mal son son Zyklus zu Ende gehen zu gehen und zu gucken, nicht nur, was haben wir in die Welt gesetzt, sondern auch, was ist dann draus geworden? Total spannend. Vielen Dank.\n\nSpeaker 1: Vielen Dank. Dankeschön.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nachhaltigkeit und Digitalisierung zusammen gedacht, das war unser Thema heute bei restart digital. Mit dabei waren meine Kollegen vom Fraunhofer Kompetenzzentrum öffentliche IT, Mike Weber und Dorian Wachsmann. Den Nachhaltigkeitscanvas findet ihr zusammen mit vielen weiteren Impulsen zum Thema Digitalisierung im öffentlichen Sektor auf unserer Webseite öFIT Punkt d e mit o e geschrieben. Wenn euch der Podcast gefallen dann empfehlt uns gerne weiter und wenn ihr's noch nicht getan habt, könnt ihr uns auch kostenfrei abonnieren auf Spotify, Apple Podcasts und vielen weiteren Portalen. Ich bin Franziska Walser, vielen Dank fürs Zuhören und bis bald.", "paragraphs": [ { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wer unseren Podcast restart digital regelmäßig hört, dem wird unser heutiges Thema vielleicht bekannt vorkommen.", "start": 1.92, "end": 7.7 }, { "text": "Wir sprechen heute über den Nachhaltigkeitscanvers.", "start": 8.16, "end": 10.099999 }, { "text": "Das ist ein Tool, das Akteurinnen aus dem öffentlichen Sektor dabei unterstützen soll, Digitalisierungsprojekte nachhaltig zu gestalten.", "start": 11.12, "end": 18.205 }, { "text": "Das Ziel ist es, die beiden Transformationsthemen Nachhaltigkeit und Digitalisierung zusammenzudenken, und zwar so, dass sich daraus keine Überforderung ergibt, sondern eine Entlastung.", "start": 18.985, "end": 30.125 }, { "text": "Heute gibt es ein Update zur Nachhaltigkeitskennvas, sozusagen ein was wurde aus, denn das Tool, das wir 2023 besprochen haben, ist inzwischen in der Praxis angekommen.", "start": 30.59, "end": 40.989998 } ], "start": 1.92, "end": 40.989998, "num_words": 87.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Es hat sich weiterentwickelt und darüber werden wir sprechen mit vielen Beispielen aus der Praxis.", "start": 40.989998, "end": 45.935 }, { "text": "Ich bin Franziska Weiser und bei mir im Studio sind, wie schon bei der ersten Folge zur Nachhaltigkeitskanvas, Dorian Wachsmann, wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter am Kompetenzzentrum öffentlicher IT mit Schwerpunkt auf nachhaltiger Digitalisierung und künstlicher Intelligenz.", "start": 52.555, "end": 65.33 }, { "text": "Hallo, Dorian.", "start": 65.33, "end": 65.99 } ], "start": 40.989998, "end": 65.99, "num_words": 51.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Hallo, danke, dass ich da sein darf.", "start": 66.05, "end": 67.67 } ], "start": 66.05, "end": 67.67, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und auch wieder dabei Doktor Mike Weber, Trendforscher und stellvertretender Leiter des öfid.", "start": 68.13, "end": 73.105 }, { "text": "Mike, hallo.", "start": 73.105, "end": 73.925 } ], "start": 68.13, "end": 73.925, "num_words": 15.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Hallo Franziska.", "start": 73.985, "end": 74.885 } ], "start": 73.985, "end": 74.885, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Lass uns doch noch mal kurz zurückblicken auf die Ausgangssituation, also 2022, 23.", "start": 75.985, "end": 81.125 }, { "text": "Was war denn der Anlass dafür, dass ihr den Nachhaltigkeitskanvas überhaupt entwickelt habt?", "start": 81.185005, "end": 85.56 }, { "text": "Was gab's da fürn Bedarf?", "start": 85.56, "end": 86.939995 } ], "start": 75.985, "end": 86.939995, "num_words": 31.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir haben dann in 'nem Paper dargelegt, dass es eben, also wir haben das natürlich nicht selbst entwickelt, sondern wir haben so die die Diskussion aufgegriffen und haben halt niederei Dimensionen aufgemacht, die Nachhaltigkeit besitzt.", "start": 87.0, "end": 97.659996 }, { "text": "Und haben für jede dieser Dimensionen Kriterien zusammengesammelt von den Vorarbeiten, die's auch wieder gab.", "start": 98.015, "end": 103.935 }, { "text": "Also die Gesellschaft für Informatik hatte damals schon Kriterienkatalog entwickelt und andere Akteure auch.", "start": 103.935, "end": 110.115 }, { "text": "Und wir dachten uns, dass es eigentlich schön wäre, 'n Tool zu entwickeln, was möglichst niedrigschwellig ist.", "start": 110.3, "end": 115.5 }, { "text": "Also mit dem auch beispielsweise Kommunen mit begrenzten Ressourcen hingehen können und sagen, okay, wir sind jetzt 'n kleines Team.", "start": 115.5, "end": 121.020004 } ], "start": 87.0, "end": 121.020004, "num_words": 101.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir haben wir wollen dieses Projekt umsetzen, dieses Digitalisierungsprojekt und wir wollen so gut es geht dabei Nachhaltigkeit mitdenken.", "start": 121.020004, "end": 127.494995 } ], "start": 121.020004, "end": 127.494995, "num_words": 19.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 127.795, "end": 128.11499 }, { "text": "Genau, wir hatten das damals auch Genau.", "start": 128.11499, "end": 129.23499 }, { "text": "Dieses son großes Poster, ne.", "start": 129.39499, "end": 130.995 }, { "text": "Wir hatten das damals auch im Studio und da kann man dann sehr übersichtlich quasi Felder ausfüllen und dann wie sone Art Check machen, oder?", "start": 130.995, "end": 138.3 } ], "start": 127.795, "end": 138.3, "num_words": 38.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das war die Idee.", "start": 138.38, "end": 139.18001 }, { "text": "Wir sind von dem Businessmodel Canvas ausgegangen.", "start": 139.18001, "end": 141.82 }, { "text": "Das ist die ähnliche Idee, wo man im Endeffekt diese neuen Felder hat, die man nacheinander ausfüllen kann.", "start": 141.82, "end": 146.78 }, { "text": "Und am Ende hat man eine Übersicht über das eigene Businessmodell.", "start": 146.78, "end": 150.40001 }, { "text": "Und wir wollten dieses Businessmodel Canvas halt von Idee aufgreifen, aber für Nachhaltigkeit Nachhaltigkeit und Digitalisierung adaptieren.", "start": 150.62, "end": 156.975 } ], "start": 138.38, "end": 156.975, "num_words": 57.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 157.835, "end": 158.235 }, { "text": "Und da sind dann diese Felder draus entstanden, die halt diese 2 grundsätzlichen Perspektiven zusammenbringen, die wir in dem Paper dann auch noch mal erörtern.", "start": 158.235, "end": 167.455 }, { "text": "Und zusätzlich dann auch die ganze Folgenabschätzung und Evaluation nach hinten raus, halt 'n Gesamteindruck von dem Projekt zu bekommen und eventuell idealerweise Möglichkeiten zu identifizieren, wie man Nachhaltigkeit in 'nem eigenen Digitalisierungsprojekt stärken kann.", "start": 168.53, "end": 182.055 } ], "start": 157.835, "end": 182.055, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau und wenn Sie uns jetzt zuhören und sich fragen, was sind denn eigentlich die 3 Säulen der Nachhaltigkeit, dann gerne zurückscrollen im Podcastfeed, genau, da haben wir sehr ausführlich drüber geredet 2023.", "start": 182.215, "end": 190.635 }, { "text": "Diese 2 Perspektiven, die Du gerade meintest, das da geht's ja darum, dient die Digitalisierung der Nachhaltigkeit und sind die digitalen Tools, die ich einsetze, auch nachhaltig, ne?", "start": 191.89499, "end": 201.62 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 201.62, "end": 201.78 }, { "text": "Das sind diese beiden Perspektiven.", "start": 201.78, "end": 203.16 }, { "text": "Also ich glaub, wir haben das damals das Wozu und das womit genannt son bisschen, ne?", "start": 203.54, "end": 207.7 } ], "start": 182.215, "end": 207.7, "num_words": 83.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, genau.", "start": 207.7, "end": 208.36 } ], "start": 207.7, "end": 208.36, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Noch mal 'n kurzes Beispiel, zum Beispiel, wenn ich eine KI hab, die unglaublich aufwendig energiefressend trainiert wurde, 'n sehr kleines, weiß ich nicht, Energieeffizienzproblem zu lösen, dann ist es halt vielleicht am Ende nicht nachhaltig, ne?", "start": 208.5, "end": 221.455 }, { "text": "Wär ja", "start": 221.455, "end": 221.695 } ], "start": 208.5, "end": 221.695, "num_words": 39.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "wär ja schon schön, wenn da eine Energieeffizienzproblem gelöst oder ich kann mir auch eine KI vorstellen, die ich mit extrem viel Daten trainiert hab und extrem viel Energie, die am Ende, weiß ich nicht, mehr Filmvorschläge macht, ne?", "start": 221.695, "end": 231.37 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 231.37, "end": 231.48999 }, { "text": "Dann haben wir da überhaupt kein Nachhaltigkeitsziel und", "start": 231.48999, "end": 233.09 } ], "start": 221.695, "end": 233.09, "num_words": 48.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 233.25, "end": 233.56999 } ], "start": 233.25, "end": 233.56999, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Unsere Idee war halt, uns auf die Sustainable Development Goals zu beziehen, ne?", "start": 233.65, "end": 237.65 }, { "text": "Die auch in Kommunen nah an Kommunen und in Landesstrategien ja häufig adressiert werden.", "start": 237.65, "end": 243.205 }, { "text": "Und zu sagen, okay, wenn ich 'n Digitalisierungsprojekt umsetze, will ich eigentlich schauen, wo verortet sich das dann in meinen Nachhaltigkeitszielen?", "start": 243.265, "end": 248.80501 }, { "text": "Und dann auf 'ner anderen Ebene, wie Du ja auch beschrieben hast, ne.", "start": 250.385, "end": 253.425 }, { "text": "Wenn ich dann meine digitalen Tools einsetze, wie kann ich die eigentlich gestalten, dass sie halt in allen 3 Dimensionen möglichst nachhaltig sind?", "start": 253.425, "end": 259.32 } ], "start": 233.65, "end": 259.32, "num_words": 84.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, dass man beides im Blick behält.", "start": 259.32, "end": 261.72 } ], "start": 259.32, "end": 261.72, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 261.72, "end": 262.04 } ], "start": 261.72, "end": 262.04, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 262.04, "end": 262.54 }, { "text": "Wir beziehen uns heute im Gespräch auf eine ÖFIT Veröffentlichung mit dem Titel Nachhaltigkeit in kommunalen Digitalprojekten, eine qualitative Analyse.", "start": 263.16, "end": 271.90002 }, { "text": "Da schreibt ihr in der Einleitung noch mal, dass eben Nachhaltigkeit und Digitalisierung die 2 zentralen Herausforderungen unserer Zeit sind.", "start": 272.57498, "end": 280.41498 }, { "text": "Beide gleich dringlich, aber werden mit unterschiedlichem Tempo und Fokus verfolgt.", "start": 280.41498, "end": 285.13498 }, { "text": "Das ist ja vielleicht auch son bisschen son, ja, son sone Beobachtung aus jetzt, ne, von 2023 bis 2025, die liefen beide gleich.", "start": 285.13498, "end": 294.57 } ], "start": 262.04, "end": 294.57, "num_words": 75.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Was ist draus geworden?", "start": 294.87, "end": 296.07 }, { "text": "Und also ich les das 'n bisschen so in der Einleitung, dass Die Digitalisierung geht schnell voran und die Nachhaltigkeit haben wir son bisschen vergessen aufm Weg.", "start": 296.07, "end": 303.85 }, { "text": "Hab ich das richtig gelesen?", "start": 304.39502, "end": 305.61502 } ], "start": 294.87, "end": 305.61502, "num_words": 36.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Willst Du, sage ich?", "start": 306.475, "end": 307.275 }, { "text": "Also", "start": 307.275, "end": 307.755 } ], "start": 306.475, "end": 307.755, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ich widerspreche dir danach.", "start": 308.315, "end": 309.775 }, { "text": "Okay.", "start": 309.995, "end": 310.475 } ], "start": 308.315, "end": 310.475, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also also mein Eindruck ist, dass gerade jetzt auch auch nach der nach der Bundestagswahl und ist ja jetzt sehr viel Dynamik in dem ganzen Digitalisierungs Feld, Digitalpolitik.", "start": 310.475, "end": 320.09 }, { "text": "Es gibt jetzt 'n eigenes Ministerium.", "start": 320.15, "end": 321.61 }, { "text": "Irgendwie die Energie ist auf jeden Fall da.", "start": 322.31, "end": 323.91 }, { "text": "Es wird viel gemacht, auch was was so die Umsetzung angeht, OZG und so.", "start": 323.91, "end": 328.71 }, { "text": "Das gibt es ja, also ist ja einfach Fortschritt zu beobachten.", "start": 328.71, "end": 331.93 } ], "start": 310.475, "end": 331.93, "num_words": 67.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und andererseits ist zumindest mein Eindruck jetzt gewesen, dass diesem ganze das ganze Nachhaltigkeitsthema durchaus eher stiefmütterlicher behandelt wird, sag ich mal.", "start": 332.47, "end": 340.97498 } ], "start": 332.47, "end": 340.97498, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 340.97498, "end": 341.47498 }, { "text": "Also so Cherry on the cake kann man's nicht.", "start": 341.535, "end": 343.29498 }, { "text": "Ja, ex", "start": 343.29498, "end": 343.775 } ], "start": 340.97498, "end": 343.775, "num_words": 12.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "ex ex ex.", "start": 343.775, "end": 344.01498 } ], "start": 343.775, "end": 344.01498, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wenn wir noch Kapazitäten haben, machen wir das auch noch.", "start": 344.01498, "end": 346.175 } ], "start": 344.01498, "end": 346.175, "num_words": 10.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir sehen ja in einigen Bereichen so so backlash artige Bewegungen, wo Themen, die vor 'n paar Jahren extrem en vogue waren, sag ich mal, also jetzt eben nicht mehr sind.", "start": 346.175, "end": 357.87997 }, { "text": "Und da wollten wir auch mit diesem Impuls noch mal 'n Stoß in die Richtung, eben Nachhaltigkeit doch auch wieder aktiver zu betrachten.", "start": 357.87997, "end": 365.105 }, { "text": "Jetzt darf man", "start": 365.105, "end": 365.54498 } ], "start": 346.175, "end": 365.54498, "num_words": 57.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und jetzt würde ich gerne ein ganz klein bisschen widersprechen.", "start": 365.585, "end": 367.925 }, { "text": "Also wenn man sich die politischen Diskurse anguckt, dann sehe ich das oder beobachte ich das ganz genauso und Nachhaltigkeit kommt erstaunlich selten mittlerweile als Thema in politischen Reden vor.", "start": 368.385, "end": 377.605 }, { "text": "Oder auch wenn man sich die Klimaschutzziele anguckt, da steht dann irgendwo im Koalitionsvertrag, die halten wir ein, aber wie und mit welchen Instrumenten ist es, da wird's dann schon sehr dünn.", "start": 378.04, "end": 386.44 }, { "text": "Also ja, auf dieser politischen Ebene auf jeden Fall.", "start": 386.44, "end": 389.18 }, { "text": "Aber zum einen ist das Thema halt aus meiner Sicht durchaus schon angekommen.", "start": 390.13498, "end": 394.395 } ], "start": 365.585, "end": 394.395, "num_words": 94.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das zeigen auch so die Beispiele, die ihr da ausgearbeitet habt.", "start": 394.775, "end": 397.995 }, { "text": "Also das Thema ist durchaus auf der Arbeitsebene angekommen und wird da auch berücksichtigt.", "start": 398.13498, "end": 402.155 }, { "text": "Das ist das eine und das andere ist, im ganz anderen Kontext kommt so etwas wie Nachhaltigkeitsbetrachtung, Wirkungsbetrachtung jetzt wieder in die Diskussion sehr stark rein.", "start": 403.08002, "end": 412.78 }, { "text": "Wirkungsorientierung vom staatlichen Handeln ist im Moment ein Riesenthema.", "start": 412.92, "end": 415.98 }, { "text": "Und da sind Nachhaltigkeitsziele einmal ein ganz wesentlicher Bereich, den man betrachten kann, grade dann, wenn man natürlich Nachhaltigkeitsprojekte beobachtet, dann ist man quasi direkt in der Wirkungsanalyse drin.", "start": 416.92, "end": 429.055 } ], "start": 394.775, "end": 429.055, "num_words": 89.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 429.055, "end": 429.555 }, { "text": "Aber auch für unintendierte Folgen, also nutz ich jetzt die Mega KI, irgend 'n Kleinkram damit zu erledigen.", "start": 430.175, "end": 437.13 }, { "text": "Also solche solche nicht beabsichtigten Nebenwirkungen kann ich damit natürlich wunderbar untersuchen.", "start": 437.51, "end": 441.77 }, { "text": "Und deswegen im Bereich der Nachhaltigkeit sind wir in Fragen der Wirkungsorientierung schon viel weiter als in anderen Bereichen.", "start": 442.31, "end": 449.37 }, { "text": "Also wir können heute, auch wenn es vielleicht politisch nicht mehr en vogue ist, aber wir können auf der operativen Ebene unheimlich viel lernen aus der Nachhaltigkeitsdiskussion.", "start": 449.445, "end": 455.86502 } ], "start": 429.055, "end": 455.86502, "num_words": 77.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 456.565, "end": 457.065 }, { "text": "Und wir sprechen ja eben auch nicht über die politischen Reden, wir sprechen ja über die Handlungsebene bei den Kommunen sozusagen und das kann ja sich da vielleicht noch mal ganz anders darstellen, ne.", "start": 457.285, "end": 465.36002 }, { "text": "Vielleicht ist es den Leuten einfach wichtig und sie machen's und sie sind ja auch durch bestimmte Vorgaben dazu angehalten.", "start": 465.36002, "end": 470.5 }, { "text": "Das ist ja auch nicht so, dass man sich da frei entscheiden kann, sondern gibt's ja Vorgaben.", "start": 470.56, "end": 473.84 } ], "start": 456.565, "end": 473.84, "num_words": 72.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, es gibt immer mehr Vorgaben, was Beschaffung angeht.", "start": 473.84, "end": 476.285 }, { "text": "Es gibt auch vermeintlich Planungsrat, Gruppen Green IT, die haben ja auch Richtlinien und so weiter entwickelt.", "start": 476.345, "end": 481.225 }, { "text": "Es gibt auf jeden Fall sehr viel.", "start": 481.225, "end": 482.505 }, { "text": "Aber die eine Sache nur, aber ich mein, das ist ja auch gewissermaßen unrealistisch.", "start": 482.505, "end": 486.285 }, { "text": "Aber wenn man sich die Agenda 20 30 anguckt, also eben diese SDGs, die Ziele, gibt's ja jährliche Berichte, wie gut wir in der Erreichung sind.", "start": 486.345, "end": 494.04 } ], "start": 473.84, "end": 494.04, "num_words": 73.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 494.04, "end": 494.54 }, { "text": "Und da sind wir halt nicht gut.", "start": 494.68, "end": 496.62 }, { "text": "Also da ist viel zu tun.", "start": 497.0, "end": 498.28 }, { "text": "Ich mein, die Ziele sind auch extrem hoch gesteckt und zu erwarten, dass man sie vollumfänglich erfüllt, ist vielleicht 'n bisschen utopisch, aber trotzdem.", "start": 498.28, "end": 506.225 }, { "text": "Also da könnte man noch viel mehr tun.", "start": 506.845, "end": 508.36502 } ], "start": 494.04, "end": 508.36502, "num_words": 46.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 508.36502, "end": 508.68503 } ], "start": 508.36502, "end": 508.68503, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Die die anderen muss ich jetzt loslassen.", "start": 508.68503, "end": 510.045 }, { "text": "Daran sieht man, wie gut die die Wirkungsmessung in dem Bereich schon ist.", "start": 510.045, "end": 513.585 } ], "start": 508.68503, "end": 513.585, "num_words": 20.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Dass man überhaupt sagen kann, dass wir das nicht so gut erreichen können.", "start": 513.72504, "end": 516.525 } ], "start": 513.72504, "end": 516.525, "num_words": 13.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, genau.", "start": 516.525, "end": 517.085 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 517.085, "end": 517.325 }, { "text": "Weil man", "start": 517.325, "end": 517.485 } ], "start": 516.525, "end": 517.485, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "das in anderen Bereichen vielleicht gar nicht sagen könnte.", "start": 517.485, "end": 519.485 } ], "start": 517.485, "end": 519.485, "num_words": 9.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 519.485, "end": 519.9 }, { "text": "Bereich der Digitalisierung wird das deutlich schwieriger.", "start": 520.06, "end": 521.74005 }, { "text": "Wir versuchen's ja 'n bisschen, aber da ist das deutlich schwieriger zu fassen.", "start": 521.74005, "end": 525.9 } ], "start": 519.485, "end": 525.9, "num_words": 21.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wie ist es auf der konkreten Projekebene?", "start": 525.9, "end": 527.76 }, { "text": "Also das ist ja auch 'n Problem, was der Canvas adressiert.", "start": 528.06, "end": 531.04004 }, { "text": "Man könnte ja die Nachhaltigkeit bei Digitalisierungsprojekten son bisschen am Ende drüber deckeln sozusagen und ihr wollt ja, dass man die von Anfang an mitdenkt.", "start": 531.34, "end": 540.775 }, { "text": "Gibt's da Fortschritte?", "start": 541.555, "end": 542.695 } ], "start": 525.9, "end": 542.695, "num_words": 46.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also nachdem wir das Papier geschrieben haben, also unser erklärtes Ziel war ja, das möglichst niedrigschwellig zu halten und unser was, was wir dann zurückgemeldet bekommen haben, ist, dass es irgendwie noch zu kompliziert ist.", "start": 544.115, "end": 556.65 } ], "start": 544.115, "end": 556.65, "num_words": 35.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 556.65, "end": 556.89 }, { "text": "Dass", "start": 556.89, "end": 557.05 } ], "start": 556.65, "end": 557.05, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "es schwierig ist, da einzusteigen.", "start": 557.05, "end": 558.43 } ], "start": 557.05, "end": 558.43, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also der Canvas war Ja, genau.", "start": 558.49, "end": 559.97 }, { "text": "Obwohl schon sehr runtergekocht, immer noch zu aufwendig Ja, also zu bearbeiten.", "start": 560.08997, "end": 563.87 } ], "start": 558.49, "end": 563.87, "num_words": 18.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So so war die Rückmeldung zumindest.", "start": 564.165, "end": 565.845 }, { "text": "Das heißt, wir haben dann im Anschluss versucht, das Tool auch noch online umzusetzen, dass es halt nicht auf Papier ist, sondern dass man damit eine Anleitung durchgeführt wird.", "start": 565.845, "end": 574.245 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 574.245, "end": 574.745 }, { "text": "Wir haben aber gemerkt, dass auch da dann häufig einfach die die Ressourcen gefehlt haben, sich damit auseinanderzusetzen, intensiv da einzusteigen und dann im Team das zu bearbeiten.", "start": 575.205, "end": 584.35 }, { "text": "Was sich dann als am erfolgreichsten rausgestellt hat, was wir dann in in immer mal wieder so so so kleineren zwei-, dreistündigen Events mit mit Interessierten gemacht haben, ist halt einfach in 'nem Workshop zusammen Also", "start": 584.88995, "end": 596.525 } ], "start": 564.165, "end": 596.525, "num_words": 100.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "wir füllen das zusammen aus.", "start": 596.525, "end": 597.405 } ], "start": 596.525, "end": 597.405, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir füllen das mal zusammen aus.", "start": 597.405, "end": 598.445 }, { "text": "Wir erklären, wir sind für Rückfragen dann da.", "start": 598.445, "end": 602.22504 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 602.28503, "end": 602.78503 }, { "text": "Und da wir die ja diese Beobachtung gemacht haben, haben wir dann gesagt, warum nicht das Ganze noch mal strukturiert anhand von soner Reihe von Workshops durchgehen, durchsprechen und dann da zweierlei draus ziehen.", "start": 604.60504, "end": 618.35 }, { "text": "Zum einen für uns vielleicht noch mal zu lernen, wie wir so was noch einfacher gestalten können und zum anderen dann halt auch den interessierten Kommunen zu helfen, diese Kenntnis anzuwenden.", "start": 618.35, "end": 629.055 } ], "start": 597.405, "end": 629.055, "num_words": 80.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 629.435, "end": 629.91504 }, { "text": "Also genau, es gibt immer noch das Ziel, dass man vielleicht mal 'n Tool hat, was man auch autark alleine anwenden kann, aber jetzt habt ihr erst mal Workshops gemacht, auch einfach das Tool zu verbessern, ne, und den Leuten zu helfen.", "start": 629.91504, "end": 641.44 } ], "start": 629.435, "end": 641.44, "num_words": 43.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 641.44, "end": 641.83997 } ], "start": 641.44, "end": 641.83997, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Könnt ihr mal erzählen, wie die Workshops so ablaufen?", "start": 641.83997, "end": 644.33997 }, { "text": "Also wer wer kommt dahin?", "start": 644.48, "end": 645.94 }, { "text": "Fordern die das an?", "start": 646.24, "end": 647.54 }, { "text": "Wie bringt ihr's zu den Leuten?", "start": 647.765, "end": 649.125 } ], "start": 641.83997, "end": 649.125, "num_words": 24.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also genau, wir haben wir haben das kennen wir's damals hier zusammen mit dem Beratungsunternehmen City und BITS entwickelt, die in den kommunalen Kontext sehr gut vernetzt sind.", "start": 649.125, "end": 657.925 }, { "text": "Und wir haben jetzt auch die Workshops wieder gemeinsam mit denen zusammen gemacht.", "start": 657.925, "end": 661.205 }, { "text": "Das heißt, sie haben in ihrem Netzwerk nach Kommunen angefragt, die da vielleicht Interesse dran hätten.", "start": 661.205, "end": 666.26 }, { "text": "Und wir hatten dann Rückmeldungen und haben dann ausgesucht nach Projekten, die möglichst unterschiedlich sind, die auch explizit nicht unbedingt rein nachhaltigkeitsbezogen sind.", "start": 666.26, "end": 676.335 }, { "text": "Das werden wir dann ja auch sehen, wenn wir in die Beispiele reingehen.", "start": 676.335, "end": 678.435 } ], "start": 649.125, "end": 678.435, "num_words": 93.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir haben jetzt auch das eine Projekt drin, was gar kein Digitalisierungsprojekt an sich ist, sondern eher son klassisches Kommunalentwicklungsprojekt.", "start": 678.495, "end": 684.995 }, { "text": "Einfach mal, zu sehen, ob das da eventuell auch Anwendungspotenzial hat.", "start": 686.655, "end": 692.05 }, { "text": "Und so haben wir dann jetzt 5 Projekte ausgesucht, die sich über 'n 'n 'n breites Spektrum abdecken.", "start": 692.11, "end": 696.93 }, { "text": "Und genau und dann in den, also ich kann auch gern gleich kurz beschreiben, wie son wie son Workshop ausgesehen hat oder", "start": 697.79, "end": 704.64496 } ], "start": 678.495, "end": 704.64496, "num_words": 71.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, vielleicht, genau.", "start": 704.805, "end": 706.02496 }, { "text": "Oder ich weiß nicht, vielleicht Mike, kannst Du noch mal erzählen, ist das ist das son übliches Vorgehen?", "start": 706.485, "end": 710.165 }, { "text": "Also oder ist das für euch auch neu gewesen, dass man sagt irgendwie, wir haben wir haben Tools und wir probieren das in 'nem Workshop aus?", "start": 710.165, "end": 716.73 }, { "text": "Und da gibt's eine Nachfrage für", "start": 717.05, "end": 718.81 } ], "start": 704.805, "end": 718.81, "num_words": 53.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, also das machen wir normalerweise schon, dass wir dann auf auf Tagungen, Konferenzen oder bei uns bei Besuchergruppen oder wie auch immer unsere Tools dann demonstrieren und vorstellen und dann natürlich auch das Feedback einsammeln, was kann man den Tools besser machen?", "start": 719.13, "end": 731.47 }, { "text": "Dass wir das so strukturiert wie in diesem Fall durchführen, also ganz gezielt mit Auswahl eine eine festgelegte Serie und auch mit Einfluss darauf, welche Projekte wir uns angucken.", "start": 731.705, "end": 743.565 }, { "text": "Das ist, glaub ich, in der iffid Geschichte einmalig in dieser Form.", "start": 744.36, "end": 747.96 }, { "text": "Das haben wir uns schon mal vorgenommen, aber diesmal haben wir's geschafft.", "start": 747.96, "end": 750.52 } ], "start": 719.13, "end": 750.52, "num_words": 96.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, also dass die ja richtig wie sone Versuchsanordnung haben sozusagen Ja, genau.", "start": 750.52, "end": 753.4 }, { "text": "Damit.", "start": 753.48004, "end": 753.8 }, { "text": "Mhm, okay.", "start": 753.8, "end": 754.7 }, { "text": "Ja, dann erzähl doch mal, wie die abgelaufen sind, die Workshops.", "start": 755.32, "end": 757.48004 }, { "text": "2 bis 3 Stunden, hast Du gesagt, ne?", "start": 757.48004, "end": 763.19543 } ], "start": 750.52, "end": 763.19543, "num_words": 35.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, meistens eher doch 3 Stunden, weil's sich ja doch", "start": 763.19543, "end": 763.27167 } ], "start": 763.19543, "end": 763.27167, "num_words": 10.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "alles immer wieder zieht.", "start": 763.27167, "end": 763.3021 }, { "text": "Also wir hatten im Vorhinein 'n Workshopkonzept entwickelt, was sich in eigentlich 3 Teile geteilt hat.", "start": 763.3021, "end": 768.385 }, { "text": "Zwar 'n erster kurzer Teil, der so als Impuls gedient hat, einmal die Sachen darzulegen, die halt einfach gebraucht werden.", "start": 768.525, "end": 776.16003 }, { "text": "Das ist unser Verständnis von Nachhaltigkeit.", "start": 776.16003, "end": 777.78 }, { "text": "Das ist unser Verständnis von dem dem Zusammenspiel von Nachhaltigkeit und Digitalisierung.", "start": 778.56, "end": 782.9 } ], "start": 763.27167, "end": 782.9, "num_words": 58.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und dann sind wir eigentlich in dem größten Teil des Workshops dieses Canvas wirklich durchgegangen, weil wir doch gemerkt haben, dass es zu viel Zeit kosten würde, das gesamte Canvas durchzugehen, dass wir den ersten Teil, den Steuerungsteil, wo es halt die Ziele geht, im Vorhinein schon abgesprochen hatten.", "start": 784.4, "end": 798.775 }, { "text": "Das heißt, wir hatten nach Inhalten gefragt, nach Projektbeschreibungen und Rahmenbedingungen.", "start": 798.775, "end": 803.21 }, { "text": "Und dann haben wir das den Kennvest Teil schon ausgefüllt gehabt und sind nur noch mal ganz kurz durchgegangen.", "start": 803.21, "end": 808.01 }, { "text": "Passt das alles so?", "start": 808.01, "end": 808.65 }, { "text": "Gibt's noch Anmerkungen, Verbesserungen oder haben wir da was falsch gemacht?", "start": 808.65, "end": 812.51 } ], "start": 784.4, "end": 812.51, "num_words": 94.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das heißt, das werden wir relativ schnell abgehakt und dann sind wir eigentlich, und es war wirklich der größte Teil, diese 21 Nachhaltigkeitskriterien, die sich über diese Säulen da ökologisch, ökonomisch und sozial ziehen, die wir damals zusammengetragen haben.", "start": 812.57, "end": 825.225 }, { "text": "Die sind wir wirklich Schritt für Schritt durchgegangen, haben jedes einzelne Kriterium kurz vorgestellt und haben dann eigentlich die Projekt Mitarbeitenden.", "start": 825.225, "end": 832.23 }, { "text": "Wir waren immer in 'ner größeren Gruppe, ne.", "start": 832.23, "end": 834.23 }, { "text": "Also es war nicht nur irgendwie der Projektverantwortliche Projektverantwortliche da und haben sie dann diskutieren lassen über dieses Kriterium, inwieweit das in ihrem Kontext überhaupt relevant ist.", "start": 834.23, "end": 844.065 } ], "start": 812.57, "end": 844.065, "num_words": 95.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Es kann ja sein, es spielt einfach überhaupt keine Rolle, irgendwie sauberes Wasser.", "start": 844.145, "end": 847.605 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 847.665, "end": 847.825 }, { "text": "Wir machen was ganz anderes, hat haben wir gar nichts damit zu tun.", "start": 847.825, "end": 850.705 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 850.705, "end": 850.945 }, { "text": "Genau, ja.", "start": 850.945, "end": 851.425 } ], "start": 844.145, "end": 851.425, "num_words": 30.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Dann haben", "start": 851.425, "end": 851.585 } ], "start": 851.425, "end": 851.585, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "wir auch motiviert zu sagen, wenn 'n Kriterium keine Rolle spielt, dann könnte es auch werfen, weil es gab dann teilweise die Tendenz, ja, wir konstruieren uns jetzt hier irgendwas.", "start": 851.585, "end": 858.36 } ], "start": 851.585, "end": 858.36, "num_words": 30.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und wir müssen wollen alles erfüllen.", "start": 858.36, "end": 859.8 } ], "start": 858.36, "end": 859.8, "num_words": 6.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, aber das ist ja völliger Quatsch.", "start": 859.8, "end": 861.16 }, { "text": "Also es geht ja wirklich darum, wir haben ja möglichst breites Angebot mit den Kriterien.", "start": 861.16, "end": 864.77997 }, { "text": "Und es geht ja auch darum, klar zu sagen, okay, das betrifft uns einfach nicht.", "start": 865.24, "end": 868.2 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 868.2, "end": 868.7 }, { "text": "Und dann sind wir halt Schritt für Schritt diese 21 Kriterien durchgegangen.", "start": 868.76, "end": 871.32 } ], "start": 859.8, "end": 871.32, "num_words": 50.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und bei jedem Kriterium wurde erst gefragt, betrifft es uns?", "start": 871.32, "end": 873.885 }, { "text": "Wenn wenn wenn ja, wie inwieweit?", "start": 873.965, "end": 876.045 }, { "text": "Wird es vielleicht auch schon umgesetzt?", "start": 876.045, "end": 877.425 }, { "text": "Und wenn ja, wenn nicht, gibt es Möglichkeiten, das eventuell bei uns perspektivisch umzusetzen.", "start": 877.885, "end": 881.905 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 882.365, "end": 882.865 } ], "start": 871.32, "end": 882.865, "num_words": 37.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Immer mit diesen diesen Schritt durch.", "start": 883.245, "end": 884.945 }, { "text": "Genau und dann, je nachdem, wie lang, das war ja 'n sehr hat teilweise sehr lange gedauert.", "start": 885.645, "end": 890.94 } ], "start": 883.245, "end": 890.94, "num_words": 23.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, 21 Kriterien ist auch erst mal eine Menge, ne, wenn man da Ja, das ist ja so über alles diskutiert, ja.", "start": 890.94, "end": 894.94 } ], "start": 890.94, "end": 894.94, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 894.94, "end": 895.34 }, { "text": "Und auch wenn je größer das Team ist und dann mehr Input, dann kann man ja auch theoretisch über ein einzelnes Kriterium eine halbe Stunde reden, wenn's nicht wichtig ist.", "start": 895.34, "end": 901.395 }, { "text": "Aber dann, je nachdem, wie viel Zeit wir nach hinten raus hatten, sind wir dann halt noch in den Evaluationsteil gegangen und haben gefragt, okay, jetzt habt ihr diese Kriterien festgelegt.", "start": 901.79504, "end": 911.41504 }, { "text": "Wie wollt ihr die denn messen eigentlich?", "start": 911.715, "end": 913.155 }, { "text": "Das ist ja diese Frage nach den Key Performance Indikatoren.", "start": 913.155, "end": 915.335 } ], "start": 894.94, "end": 915.335, "num_words": 79.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und da haben wir dann häufig gemerkt, dass da noch noch sehr, ich sag mal, noch noch viel Möglichkeit zur Verbesserung gibt.", "start": 916.10004, "end": 923.94 }, { "text": "Also da ist ja häufig 'n ja noch noch 'n weißes weißes Feld gewesen, Aber auch großes Interesse, da drüber nachzudenken und zu sich zu fragen, okay, wie wie kann man so was eigentlich messen?", "start": 923.94, "end": 933.665 }, { "text": "Und dann bei ein oder bei 2 Projekten hat mir, glaub ich, dann am Ende auch noch eine Folgenabschätzung vorgenommen, wo wir dann halt gefragt haben über 3 verschiedene Zeithorizonte in den 3 Dimensionen, wie stellt ihr euch eigentlich vor?", "start": 933.665, "end": 944.19 }, { "text": "Welchen Impact kann euer Projekt haben?", "start": 944.19, "end": 945.83 }, { "text": "Im Positiven wie im Negativen?", "start": 945.83, "end": 947.25 } ], "start": 916.10004, "end": 947.25, "num_words": 108.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das ist ja diese Wirkungsorientierung im Prinzip, Mike, wo Du gerade gesagt hast, das ist gerade das große Ding.", "start": 948.03, "end": 952.67 } ], "start": 948.03, "end": 952.67, "num_words": 19.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das ist die ganz hohe Kunst der Wirkungsorientierung, ja.", "start": 952.67, "end": 955.23 }, { "text": "Und wenn man das dann noch schafft über diese Key Performance Indicator, wie er sie nennt, messbar zu machen und greifbar zu machen, das ist bei Impact 'n ganz schwieriges Feld.", "start": 955.23, "end": 965.005 }, { "text": "Deswegen habt ihr auch gefragt, oder was heißt die Nummer?", "start": 965.005, "end": 967.005 }, { "text": "Genau, also", "start": 967.005, "end": 967.325 } ], "start": 952.67, "end": 967.325, "num_words": 52.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "wir haben da wirklich Ich", "start": 967.325, "end": 968.04504 } ], "start": 967.325, "end": 968.04504, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub,", "start": 968.04504, "end": 968.365 } ], "start": 968.04504, "end": 968.365, "num_words": 13.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub,", "start": 968.365, "end": 969.125 } ], "start": 968.365, "end": 969.125, "num_words": 12.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "ich glaub, ich was stellt ihr euch denn vor?", "start": 969.125, "end": 971.14 }, { "text": "Was könnte denn sein?", "start": 971.14, "end": 971.94 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 971.94, "end": 972.02 } ], "start": 969.125, "end": 972.02, "num_words": 14.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das ist", "start": 972.02, "end": 972.26 } ], "start": 972.02, "end": 972.26, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "ja auch meistens dann in der letzten Viertelstunde noch 'n bisschen passiert.", "start": 972.26, "end": 974.58 }, { "text": "Aber es war trotzdem interessant.", "start": 974.58, "end": 975.78 }, { "text": "Und auch zu sehen, dass die Projekte jetzt nicht nur Positives bei sich selbst auch festgestellt haben, sondern auch gesagt haben, na gut, beispielsweise bei der bei dem einen Projekt ging's ja Verkehrsaufkommen über übern Kanal.", "start": 975.78, "end": 988.055 }, { "text": "Wenn wir das jetzt optimieren, dann kann das natürlich auch dazu führen, dass erst mal der mehr Verkehr entsteht, ne?", "start": 988.275, "end": 993.075 } ], "start": 972.26, "end": 993.075, "num_words": 73.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, weil mehr Leute Auto fahren, weil sich denken, das läuft ja prima.", "start": 993.075, "end": 995.875 } ], "start": 993.075, "end": 995.875, "num_words": 13.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 995.875, "end": 996.195 } ], "start": 995.875, "end": 996.195, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das kommt gut durch.", "start": 996.195, "end": 996.96 }, { "text": "Genau, also", "start": 997.12, "end": 997.60004 } ], "start": 996.195, "end": 997.60004, "num_words": 6.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "so sone sone Erkenntnisse gab's dann auch.", "start": 997.60004, "end": 1000.98004 } ], "start": 997.60004, "end": 1000.98004, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und die Projekte waren ja in ganz unterschiedlichen Stadien, so wie ich's auch verstanden hab.", "start": 1001.52, "end": 1005.44 }, { "text": "Also manche waren noch so, also wir überlegen das zu machen, wir wissen noch gar nicht genau, ob wir's machen und manche waren schon sehr weit fortgeschritten.", "start": 1005.44, "end": 1010.745 }, { "text": "Da hat man, das ist ja auch 'n Unterschied, wie viel man dann überhaupt noch Einfluss nehmen kann, ne, zu dem Genau.", "start": 1010.745, "end": 1014.865 }, { "text": "Zeitpunkt, ja.", "start": 1015.065, "end": 1015.625 } ], "start": 1001.52, "end": 1015.625, "num_words": 66.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also die Workshops sind ja auch alle letztes Jahr schon passiert.", "start": 1015.625, "end": 1018.505 }, { "text": "Das heißt, die Projekte sind jetzt im Nachhinein ja auch noch weiterentwickelt worden.", "start": 1018.505, "end": 1021.905 }, { "text": "Man meint, die sind jetzt fertig geworden und so.", "start": 1021.905, "end": 1023.78503 }, { "text": "Aber ja, das war in in der Tat son bisschen ja, unterschiedlich.", "start": 1023.78503, "end": 1027.46 }, { "text": "Ob es eher eine Retrospektive war oder eher eine was können wir eigentlich noch tun, Perspektive.", "start": 1027.6, "end": 1032.34 } ], "start": 1015.625, "end": 1032.34, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wobei natürlich man auch aus den abgeschlossenen Projekten dann wieder lernen kann, was man beim nächsten Mal anders machen kann.", "start": 1032.72, "end": 1037.36 } ], "start": 1032.72, "end": 1037.36, "num_words": 20.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Total, weil das sind ja immer dieselben Leute, ne und die machen dann das nächste Projekt.", "start": 1037.36, "end": 1041.0599 }, { "text": "Also ja, genau.", "start": 1041.44, "end": 1042.495 } ], "start": 1037.36, "end": 1042.495, "num_words": 19.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, und auch original kann man ja offen lernen und dann Ja.", "start": 1042.495, "end": 1045.615 }, { "text": "Zum Beispiel das Indikatorensets zu sammeln, die ja teilweise, also zumindest bei einigen einigen Kriterien ja relativ eindeutig sind, Energieeffizienz oder Wiederverwertbarkeit.", "start": 1045.775, "end": 1054.275 }, { "text": "Das sind ja relativ klare Kriterien, die man beim nächsten Mal dann auch gleich wieder ansetzen kann, wenn man neues Projekt startet.", "start": 1054.575, "end": 1059.67 } ], "start": 1042.495, "end": 1059.67, "num_words": 56.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, dann geht's in 2 Stunden und nicht in 3 Stunden beim nächsten Mal.", "start": 1059.67, "end": 1063.21 } ], "start": 1059.67, "end": 1063.21, "num_words": 14.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Na ja, wenn man am Anfang steht, haben wir vielleicht noch mehr Kriterien, die man diskutieren muss, könnt ich mir vorstellen.", "start": 1063.27, "end": 1067.45 } ], "start": 1063.27, "end": 1067.45, "num_words": 21.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay, aber dann lass doch mal in die in die Beispiele einsteigen.", "start": 1068.31, "end": 1071.125 }, { "text": "Also ihr stellt 5 Beispiele im Detail vor.", "start": 1071.185, "end": 1073.7451 }, { "text": "Es waren aber mehr Workshops wahrscheinlich, ne.", "start": 1073.7451, "end": 1075.905 }, { "text": "Also das sind jetzt 5, die habt ihr euch rausgegriffen, weil man die einfach besonders spannend waren.", "start": 1075.905, "end": 1079.9851 } ], "start": 1068.31, "end": 1079.9851, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Nee, das waren tatsächlich genau die 5, die wir auch gemacht haben.", "start": 1079.9851, "end": 1082.0651 } ], "start": 1079.9851, "end": 1082.0651, "num_words": 12.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay, also das ist eure Versuchsanordnung.", "start": 1082.0651, "end": 1083.525 } ], "start": 1082.0651, "end": 1083.525, "num_words": 6.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir hatten wir hatten, ich glaube, 10, 15 interessierte Kommunen und aus denen haben wir dann die 5 Kommunen ausgelöst, mit denen wir die Workshops halten wollen und die haben wir dann auch alle in dem Impuls berücksichtigt.", "start": 1083.665, "end": 1094.8401 }, { "text": "Also wir haben jetzt keinen rausgeworfen.", "start": 1094.8401, "end": 1096.14 } ], "start": 1083.665, "end": 1096.14, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, okay, genau.", "start": 1096.28, "end": 1097.16 }, { "text": "Also die 5 stellt ihr alle vor in dieser Veröffentlichung.", "start": 1097.16, "end": 1100.2201 }, { "text": "Ich würd jetzt gerne mal 3 rausgreifen, weil 5 'n bisschen den Rahmen sprengt und es gab so ein Projekt, das hat mich gleich neugierig gemacht, das heißt der digitale Bienenstock im Kreis Recklinghausen.", "start": 1101.4249, "end": 1111.845 }, { "text": "Worum geht's denn da?", "start": 1112.785, "end": 1114.005 } ], "start": 1096.28, "end": 1114.005, "num_words": 51.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, es ist auch irgendwie, ich ich weiß gar nicht, wie ich das sagen darf, aber mein Lieblingsprojekt, einfach weil's weil's so schön ist, ne.", "start": 1114.065, "end": 1119.6901 }, { "text": "Ich glaub, Bienen mag eigentlich jeder, glaube ich.", "start": 1120.2301, "end": 1122.2301 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 1122.2301, "end": 1122.4701 }, { "text": "Brücken Recklinghausen ist ein Projekt, was in Zusammenarbeit 'n starkes Sommerbett mit dem Hof Wessels entwickelt wurde.", "start": 1122.4701, "end": 1129.37 }, { "text": "Der Hof Wessels ist ein Lernort für außerschulische Umweltbildung vom BNE.", "start": 1129.565, "end": 1134.705 } ], "start": 1114.065, "end": 1134.705, "num_words": 62.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, das heißt, das Projekt zahlt eigentlich auf zweierlei Ziele ein.", "start": 1135.165, "end": 1139.725 }, { "text": "Einmal gute Bildung, weil halt versucht wird, über das Projekt Umweltbildung Menschen zu bringen und zum anderen natürlich das Wohl der Bienen zu verbessern, also auf das Ziel, 15 Leben an Land.", "start": 1139.725, "end": 1152.47 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1152.53, "end": 1153.01 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 1153.01, "end": 1153.41 }, { "text": "Und was was da konkret gemacht wurde, ist, dass sie da halt ein Bienenstock steht und dieser Bienenstock wurde mit Sensorik ausgestattet.", "start": 1153.41, "end": 1160.255 } ], "start": 1135.165, "end": 1160.255, "num_words": 67.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das ist Sensorik, mit der unterschiedliche Sachen gemessen werden.", "start": 1160.5549, "end": 1164.075 }, { "text": "Das ist Temperaturgewicht, Luftfeuchtigkeit in 'nem Bienenstock.", "start": 1164.075, "end": 1167.615 }, { "text": "Und diese Daten werden dann über Loravan quasi über dieses Netz gesendet.", "start": 1168.075, "end": 1172.315 } ], "start": 1160.5549, "end": 1172.315, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das ist wie son mini lokales WLAN, ne.", "start": 1172.315, "end": 1175.5599 }, { "text": "Ich hab das mal Genau.", "start": 1175.5599, "end": 1176.6799 }, { "text": "Also ich kann's jetzt nicht besser erklären.", "start": 1176.6799, "end": 1177.72 }, { "text": "Du kannst es wahrscheinlich besser erklären, aber genau.", "start": 1177.72, "end": 1179.72 } ], "start": 1172.315, "end": 1179.72, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 1179.72, "end": 1179.96 }, { "text": "So so kann man sich das vorstellen.", "start": 1179.96, "end": 1181.3999 }, { "text": "Die Daten werden dann gesammelt, auch frei zur Verfügung gestellt.", "start": 1181.3999, "end": 1185.72 }, { "text": "Das heißt, jeder Interessierte kann sich dann anschauen und übern Dashboard diese Daten beobachten, analysieren, auswerten.", "start": 1185.72, "end": 1190.995 } ], "start": 1179.72, "end": 1190.995, "num_words": 34.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wie's den Bienen geht.", "start": 1191.615, "end": 1192.495 }, { "text": "Kann man an diesen Indikatoren ableiten?", "start": 1192.495, "end": 1194.095 }, { "text": "Also zum Beispiel Genau.", "start": 1194.095, "end": 1194.615 }, { "text": "Bei Gewicht kann man merken, okay, wächst der Stamm oder werden's weniger, ne?", "start": 1194.735, "end": 1199.695 }, { "text": "Weil Weil einfach mehr Bienen wiegen mehr.", "start": 1199.695, "end": 1201.615 } ], "start": 1191.615, "end": 1201.615, "num_words": 34.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 1201.615, "end": 1201.9349 }, { "text": "So zum Beispiel.", "start": 1201.9349, "end": 1202.7201 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 1202.7201, "end": 1203.04 }, { "text": "Dann gibt's ja die idealen Bedingungen, in denen die Bienen halt leben.", "start": 1203.04, "end": 1207.2201 }, { "text": "Und entsprechend kann auch der Imker dann da variabel drauf reagieren, wenn er halt immer sieht, die Luftfeuchtigkeit ist zu hoch, sag ich mal und kann dagegen steuern.", "start": 1207.36, "end": 1216.3401 } ], "start": 1201.615, "end": 1216.3401, "num_words": 45.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 1216.4, "end": 1216.815 }, { "text": "Ist auch dein Lieblingsprojekt, Mike, hast Du gesagt, ne?", "start": 1216.975, "end": 1219.215 } ], "start": 1216.4, "end": 1219.215, "num_words": 10.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Absolut.", "start": 1219.215, "end": 1219.715 }, { "text": "Das, obwohl meine Tochter mal von der Wespe gestochen worden ist und seitdem alles, was so ähnlich aussieht, 'n bisschen Panik in der Familie aussiehst.", "start": 1220.0149, "end": 1227.455 }, { "text": "Nein, ist 'n wunderbares Projekt, 'n klassisches Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt, kann man, glaub ich, sagen.", "start": 1227.455, "end": 1233.6699 }, { "text": "Dementsprechend das, was ich eben mit Wirkungsorientierung gesagt habe, kann man hier 1 zu 1 anwenden und kann direkt von den von den Sustainable Development Goals aufwirken.", "start": 1233.73, "end": 1242.07 } ], "start": 1219.215, "end": 1242.07, "num_words": 66.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wirken.", "start": 1242.215, "end": 1242.455 }, { "text": "Genau, weil da ist sozusagen die Nachhaltigkeit eigentlich der Treiber und die Digitalisierung kommt assistierend dazu, ne.", "start": 1242.455, "end": 1247.415 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 1247.415, "end": 1247.575 }, { "text": "Das ist ja die Wertigkeit der Genau.", "start": 1247.575, "end": 1248.7484 }, { "text": "Wertigkeit der Und da", "start": 1248.8417, "end": 1249.415 } ], "start": 1242.215, "end": 1249.415, "num_words": 30.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "sieht man ja in diesem Projekt zum Beispiel durch die Offenlegung der Daten, die Datenverfügbarkeit oder auch die Berücksichtigung von Nachhaltigkeitskriterien in der Hardwarebeschaffung, dass man da dann direkt Digitalisierungsaspekte mit reindenken kann und muss.", "start": 1249.415, "end": 1264.77 }, { "text": "Also deswegen 'n wunderbares Beispiel.", "start": 1264.77, "end": 1267.1101 } ], "start": 1249.415, "end": 1267.1101, "num_words": 40.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wie habt ihr denn dann den Canvas genutzt in dem Projekt?", "start": 1267.17, "end": 1270.13 }, { "text": "Also weil Mike auch gerade schon sagte, also die Sensoren müssen ja beschaffen werden, da gibt's dann auch wieder Nachhaltigkeitskriterien.", "start": 1270.13, "end": 1275.855 }, { "text": "Also was hat die Benutzung der Kenntnis da so aufgedeckt?", "start": 1276.555, "end": 1280.3351 } ], "start": 1267.17, "end": 1280.3351, "num_words": 41.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 1280.635, "end": 1280.9551 }, { "text": "Also wir haben zum einen dadurch, dass es halt 'n klares Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt ist, in vielen Aspekten auch schon gemerkt, dass dass Nachhaltigkeit halt gut beachtet wird.", "start": 1280.9551, "end": 1292.6 }, { "text": "Das geht halt ja auch über die über die Zielsetzung hinaus, also auch bei der Ressourcenbeschaffung, sagen wir, die Sensoren müssen ja gekauft werden.", "start": 1292.6, "end": 1298.9401 }, { "text": "Und die Sensoren werden dann teilweise auch auch als Bildungsprojekt dann vor Ort irgendwie zusammengebaut mit mit den entsprechenden Mitschüler*innen, die daran interessiert sind.", "start": 1299.0, "end": 1307.4451 }, { "text": "Beispielsweise bei den Sensoren wird darauf geachtet, dass sie energieeffizient sind, dass sie solarbetrieben sind, dass sie auch rückbaufähig sind.", "start": 1307.5851, "end": 1315.02 } ], "start": 1280.635, "end": 1315.02, "num_words": 95.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Solche Aspekte wurden halt alle schon beachtet.", "start": 1315.5, "end": 1317.52 }, { "text": "Wir haben dann aber gemerkt, dass in der sozialen Dimension mit den Kriterien, die da liegen, dass da noch Potenzial gibt.", "start": 1317.8201, "end": 1323.98 }, { "text": "Also wir haben dann festgestellt, dass das Dashboard, was sie da entwickelt haben, zum Beispiel noch nicht barrierefrei ist.", "start": 1323.98, "end": 1330.8 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1331.155, "end": 1331.315 }, { "text": "Aber insgesamt und das haben wir dann auch bei der Folgenabschätzung gemerkt, dass das halt schon also schon vielerlei Hinsicht 'n Vorzeigeprojekt.", "start": 1331.315, "end": 1337.175 } ], "start": 1315.5, "end": 1337.175, "num_words": 70.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Eine Sache, die da noch aufgefallen ist, war mit der Beschaffung der Sensoren, wo sie halt festgestellt haben, dass sie die teilweise aus aus aus China, glaub ich, ein eingekauft haben.", "start": 1338.115, "end": 1349.1901 }, { "text": "Und die ganzen Aspekte, die so mit Lieferketten zusammenhängt, dass sie die nicht zurückverfolgen konnten.", "start": 1349.1901, "end": 1354.07 }, { "text": "Aber das ist irgendwie auch", "start": 1354.07, "end": 1354.87 } ], "start": 1338.115, "end": 1354.87, "num_words": 51.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Weil das einfach schwer ist.", "start": 1354.95, "end": 1355.75 }, { "text": "Genau, genau.", "start": 1355.75, "end": 1356.15 }, { "text": "Wobei man da keine, weiß ich nicht, Siegel hat oder so was.", "start": 1356.15, "end": 1358.79 }, { "text": "Exakt.", "start": 1358.79, "end": 1359.27 } ], "start": 1354.95, "end": 1359.27, "num_words": 20.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Da darf, genau und da ist es gibt ja auch auf auf europäischer Lieferkettengesetz und ganze Thematik, aber das ist eben verdammt schwierig in der Praxis dann irgendwie fest sicherzustellen, dass die Sachen, die ich da jetzt gekauft habe, auch tatsächlich meinen ökologischen Werten quasi entsprechen.", "start": 1359.27, "end": 1374.135 } ], "start": 1359.27, "end": 1374.135, "num_words": 46.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, okay.", "start": 1374.275, "end": 1375.3201 } ], "start": 1374.275, "end": 1375.3201, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Was ich natürlich auch besonders spannend daran finde, ist die direkte Verbindung dann halt in Lern- und Lehrangebote Ja.", "start": 1375.4601, "end": 1381.86 }, { "text": "Hinein.", "start": 1381.9401, "end": 1382.4401 }, { "text": "Also dieses Projekt an sich schon auf Nachhaltigkeitsziele, auf ein ganz wichtiges Nachhaltigkeitsziel Biodiversität letztlich einzahlenend.", "start": 1382.5801, "end": 1390.185 }, { "text": "Und das dann nicht nur als Projekt so stehenzulassen, sondern gleich durch die Datenverfügbarkeit auf der einen Seite und durch die Bildungsangebote auf der anderen Seite, das gleich in die Breite zu bringen.", "start": 1390.885, "end": 1399.625 }, { "text": "Das find ich schon sehr beeindruckend.", "start": 1400.5651, "end": 1402.025 } ], "start": 1375.4601, "end": 1402.025, "num_words": 75.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, also das sind Daten, da könnte zum Beispiel jemand eine Doktorarbeit mitschreiben oder so was, ne, weil man kommt einfach ran an die Daten und die Schüler und Schülerinnen", "start": 1402.25, "end": 1410.41 } ], "start": 1402.25, "end": 1410.41, "num_words": 30.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, also der der Plan ist auch, das Projekt, glaube ich, noch größer zu aufzuziehen.", "start": 1410.7301, "end": 1414.5701 }, { "text": "Ich weiß nicht genau, in welchem, weil das jetzt nicht mehr verfolgt hab, aber ich weiß auf jeden Fall, dass die Idee da war, das auf mehrere Bienenstücke auszuweiten und auch anderen Kommunen anzubieten und darüber dann halt mehr Daten zu sammeln, mehr Daten Ja.", "start": 1414.5701, "end": 1424.7849 }, { "text": "Generell besser.", "start": 1424.825, "end": 1425.725 }, { "text": "Und eventuell dann auch, wenn man sich vorstellt, man möchte jetzt eine eine Strategie zum zur Biodiversität entwickeln, also 'n politische, dass dass man dann halt auf diesen Datenschatz zurückgreifen kann.", "start": 1426.025, "end": 1437.48 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 1437.48, "end": 1437.56 } ], "start": 1410.7301, "end": 1437.56, "num_words": 94.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das war so der die Hoffnung, die dahinter ja auch 'n bisschen gesteckt hat.", "start": 1437.56, "end": 1441.0 } ], "start": 1437.56, "end": 1441.0, "num_words": 14.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Damit wird es dann ja auch auf der Seite dann zum Warendigitalisierungsprojekt, dann reden wir über Interporabilität, über Metadaten, über Datenschnittstellen und so weiter.", "start": 1441.0, "end": 1445.2216 }, { "text": "Du meinst, sobald man die über Metadaten, über Datenschnittstellen und so weiter.", "start": 1445.2216, "end": 1449.095 } ], "start": 1441.0, "end": 1449.095, "num_words": 36.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Du meinst, sobald man die Daten anfängt miteinander zu verknüpfen und vergleichbar zu machen", "start": 1449.095, "end": 1452.135 } ], "start": 1449.095, "end": 1452.135, "num_words": 14.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Schon die Bereitstellung, ne?", "start": 1452.375, "end": 1453.335 }, { "text": "Muss man das ja schon alles mitdenken oder das sollte man.", "start": 1453.335, "end": 1455.415 } ], "start": 1452.375, "end": 1455.415, "num_words": 15.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, das ist ambitioniert, wenn dann verschiedene Bienenstöcke in verschiedenen Kommunen miteinander kommunizieren sollen.", "start": 1455.415, "end": 1459.995 }, { "text": "Wenn die das schaffen?", "start": 1460.13, "end": 1461.55 } ], "start": 1455.415, "end": 1461.55, "num_words": 18.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Bienen können da auch miteinander kommunizieren, das kann nicht so schwer sein.", "start": 1461.57, "end": 1464.31 } ], "start": 1461.57, "end": 1464.31, "num_words": 12.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay, also das war jetzt 'n ganz klassisches Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt, leuchtet sofort ein, dass Bienen und Nachhaltigkeit zusammenhängen.", "start": 1465.65, "end": 1472.79 }, { "text": "Jetzt gibt's 'n anderes Projekt, da denkt man gar nicht sofort an Klimawandel oder Ressourcensparsamkeit, und zwar das virtuelle Bauamt im Landkreis Ober Spreewald Lausitz.", "start": 1473.4249, "end": 1483.125 }, { "text": "Das ist jetzt 'n Vorhaben, das ist schon abgeschlossen und worum geht's denn bei dem virtuellen Bauamt?", "start": 1483.745, "end": 1488.8049 } ], "start": 1465.65, "end": 1488.8049, "num_words": 59.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 1489.06, "end": 1489.3 }, { "text": "Das war 'n Testpilot vom Land Brandenburg und OSL, das Hochschulspremel Lausitz war halt damit beauftragt, diesen gesamten Prozess des Stellen 1 Bauantrages online zu ermöglichen.", "start": 1489.3, "end": 1502.2001 }, { "text": "Und das geht halt von, der Bauherr möchte die ganzen Daten an die eingeben.", "start": 1503.0349, "end": 1508.975 }, { "text": "Die müssen dann verarbeitet werden, müssen entsprechend auch vielleicht verwaltungsintern geteilt werden, beispielsweise das Katasteramt könnte Interesse an den Daten haben und so weiter.", "start": 1509.195, "end": 1518.18 }, { "text": "Und dann muss auch der Bescheid am Ende wieder digital an den Bauherrenherren zurückgehen.", "start": 1518.18, "end": 1521.9401 } ], "start": 1489.06, "end": 1521.9401, "num_words": 79.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und das dieser gesamte Prozess haben sie dann halt unter diesem virtuellen Bauamt zusammengefasst.", "start": 1521.9401, "end": 1525.88 }, { "text": "Und wie Du schon richtig gesagt hast, das ist erst mal und das hatte ich ja auch am Anfang gesagt, wir gucken uns hier nicht nur 'n Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt an.", "start": 1526.8201, "end": 1533.365 } ], "start": 1521.9401, "end": 1533.365, "num_words": 43.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das ist", "start": 1533.365, "end": 1533.525 } ], "start": 1533.365, "end": 1533.525, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "ja erst mal kein klassisches Nachhaltigkeitspreis.", "start": 1533.525, "end": 1535.365 }, { "text": "Nee, ist", "start": 1535.365, "end": 1535.845 } ], "start": 1533.525, "end": 1535.845, "num_words": 8.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "ja son richtig klassisches Digitalisierungsprojekt, wo die Gefahr wäre, dass die Nachhaltigkeit am Ende son bisschen noch dran ornamentiert wird, im besten Fall.", "start": 1535.845, "end": 1543.6901 }, { "text": "Im", "start": 1543.6901, "end": 1543.8501 } ], "start": 1535.845, "end": 1543.8501, "num_words": 24.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "besten Fall, genau.", "start": 1543.8501, "end": 1544.65 }, { "text": "Oder halt auch einfach nicht beachtet wird.", "start": 1544.65, "end": 1546.01 }, { "text": "Das kann natürlich auch sein, genau.", "start": 1546.01, "end": 1547.63 }, { "text": "Und aus diesem Grund haben wir das Projekt aufgenommen, mal da reinzuschauen, so zu schauen, ja, wird Nachhaltigkeit beachtet?", "start": 1548.01, "end": 1554.01 }, { "text": "Wenn ja, wie viel, wie viel auch vielleicht implizit.", "start": 1554.01, "end": 1555.87 } ], "start": 1543.8501, "end": 1555.87, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also es kann ja auch sein, ne, dass wir dann merken, okay, wir haben jetzt hier diese krasse Nachhaltigkeitsbrille und gucken da drauf.", "start": 1555.93, "end": 1560.715 }, { "text": "Und die machen das aber schon, aber reden vielleicht auch gar nicht so sehr dadrüber.", "start": 1560.775, "end": 1563.815 }, { "text": "Das kann natürlich auch sein.", "start": 1563.815, "end": 1564.9349 } ], "start": 1555.93, "end": 1564.9349, "num_words": 43.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 1564.9349, "end": 1565.4349 }, { "text": "Ornamentiert.", "start": 1565.575, "end": 1566.075 }, { "text": "Ich hab nur das Wort gelernt.", "start": 1566.295, "end": 1567.575 }, { "text": "Sehr schön.", "start": 1567.575, "end": 1568.315 } ], "start": 1564.9349, "end": 1568.315, "num_words": 10.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wie Stuck.", "start": 1569.095, "end": 1570.08 } ], "start": 1569.095, "end": 1570.08, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, daran denk ich die ganze Zeit.", "start": 1571.36, "end": 1572.48 } ], "start": 1571.36, "end": 1572.48, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Keine tragende Säule, aber schön.", "start": 1572.48, "end": 1574.4199 } ], "start": 1572.48, "end": 1574.4199, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 1574.72, "end": 1575.12 }, { "text": "Und frag mich grad, wie nachhaltig Stuck ist.", "start": 1575.12, "end": 1577.2999 }, { "text": "Das Themenfeld, wenn man das Themenfeld Bau insgesamt aufmacht, hat man natürlich noch ganz andere Nachhaltigkeitsaspekte, die man da berücksichtigen könnte.", "start": 1577.6799, "end": 1583.94 }, { "text": "Ist halt eine andere Baustelle.", "start": 1584.3251, "end": 1585.935 }, { "text": "Und da denk ich, nützt so ein Canvas auch, darauf zu fokussieren, was denn hier in diesem ganz konkreten Projekt wirklich die entscheidenden relevanten Punkte sind.", "start": 1585.935, "end": 1595.625 } ], "start": 1574.72, "end": 1595.625, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Haben schon gesagt, Energieeffizienz von Bauten oder so was wäre sicherlich 'n wunderbarer Aspekt, aber darum geht's halt ja einfach Nee, darum geht's halt ja darum, sondern einfach", "start": 1595.685, "end": 1601.6 } ], "start": 1595.685, "end": 1601.6, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "nur", "start": 1601.6, "end": 1601.6799 } ], "start": 1601.6, "end": 1601.6799, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "wenige Teile", "start": 1601.76, "end": 1602.32 } ], "start": 1601.76, "end": 1602.32, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "und wenn Du mit Lehmbauweise baust, wird dein Antrag schneller bearbeitet.", "start": 1602.4, "end": 1605.36 }, { "text": "Das war nicht der Punkt, sondern", "start": 1605.36, "end": 1606.88 } ], "start": 1602.4, "end": 1606.88, "num_words": 17.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wäre aber mal eine gute Idee.", "start": 1607.0399, "end": 1608.1599 } ], "start": 1607.0399, "end": 1608.1599, "num_words": 6.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Aber kleiner Teaser, das ist ja dann in dem dritten Projekt, was wir besprechen, vielleicht noch mal interessant.", "start": 1608.1599, "end": 1611.9199 }, { "text": "Da geht's ja dann tatsächlich Bau, ne.", "start": 1611.9199, "end": 1613.985 }, { "text": "Ne.", "start": 1613.985, "end": 1614.145 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 1614.145, "end": 1614.225 }, { "text": "Also eine Immobilie.", "start": 1614.225, "end": 1615.345 } ], "start": 1608.1599, "end": 1615.345, "num_words": 30.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Hier haben wir ja jetzt diesen Prozess des Antragstellens und", "start": 1615.345, "end": 1618.465 } ], "start": 1615.345, "end": 1618.465, "num_words": 10.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 1618.625, "end": 1618.945 }, { "text": "Und es ist 'n abgeschlossenes Projekt.", "start": 1618.945, "end": 1620.625 }, { "text": "Also es hat offensichtlich funktioniert.", "start": 1620.625, "end": 1622.325 }, { "text": "Also die Menschen in diesem Landkreis können das jetzt machen.", "start": 1622.465, "end": 1625.025 } ], "start": 1618.625, "end": 1625.025, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ich glaube, ganz ganz Brandenburg müsste das jetzt zur Verfügung führen.", "start": 1625.025, "end": 1627.72 }, { "text": "Das sei Testpilot in OSL und das ist jetzt, glaub ich, auf der Brandenburg Plattform verfügbar, wenn ich das richtig gesehen hab.", "start": 1627.72, "end": 1633.96 } ], "start": 1625.025, "end": 1633.96, "num_words": 33.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 1633.96, "end": 1634.46 }, { "text": "Und jetzt mal konkret im Workshop.", "start": 1634.6799, "end": 1636.2 }, { "text": "Also als ihr da gearbeitet habt mit der Canvas, was hat sich denn da so gezeigt?", "start": 1636.2, "end": 1640.7799 } ], "start": 1633.96, "end": 1640.7799, "num_words": 23.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, also bei dem Projekt hat sich gezeigt, dass es ganz schön eingebunden ist in die Anforderungen, die das Land gestellt hat.", "start": 1641.5651, "end": 1648.765 } ], "start": 1641.5651, "end": 1648.765, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1648.765, "end": 1648.845 }, { "text": "Also die hatten gar nicht so viel Nein,", "start": 1648.845, "end": 1650.045 } ], "start": 1648.765, "end": 1650.045, "num_words": 9.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "die hatten relativ wenig Flexibilität in dem, was sie machen konnten.", "start": 1650.045, "end": 1653.745 }, { "text": "Weil wie gesagt, das war halt 'n Testpilot vom Land Brandenburg und entsprechend war das eingebettet in ganz Mengen Richtlinien, die sie erfüllen mussten.", "start": 1654.06, "end": 1662.8 }, { "text": "Es gab es gibt diese Schnittstelle, die sie abdecken müssen, damit es dann halt auch eingebunden werden kann in in den Landeskontext.", "start": 1663.18, "end": 1670.335 }, { "text": "Die Software, die Sie dann dafür beauftragt haben, beziehungsweise glaub ich, wo Sie sich Lizenzen für gekauft haben, Laut dem Workshop teilnehmen dann nur diesen einen Anbieter, den sie da nutzen konnten.", "start": 1671.275, "end": 1683.45 }, { "text": "Das heißt, da gab's auch gar nicht die Möglichkeit, jetzt beispielsweise nach Open Source Alternativen zu schauen, Mhm.", "start": 1683.51, "end": 1687.71 } ], "start": 1650.045, "end": 1687.71, "num_words": 107.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sondern sie mussten sich halt auf dieses Lizenzangebot einlassen.", "start": 1687.9099, "end": 1692.01 }, { "text": "Generell war's halt 'n reines Softwareprojekt.", "start": 1692.925, "end": 1694.545 }, { "text": "Das heißt, all diese ökologischen Kriterien nach Materialproduktion so weit, werden auch eher zurückgestellt.", "start": 1695.245, "end": 1700.625 }, { "text": "Indirekt haben wir dann diskutiert, inwieweit jetzt die Server, die da in im Land bereitstehen, inwieweit da auf Energieeffizienz und so geachtet wird, beziehungsweise ob eventuell auch neue dazugekauft werden müssten, wenn das jetzt breit ausgerollt wird.", "start": 1701.965, "end": 1717.5 }, { "text": "Aber da gab's auch, glaub ich, noch keine klare kleine klare Erkenntnis zu.", "start": 1717.8251, "end": 1722.2251 } ], "start": 1687.9099, "end": 1722.2251, "num_words": 79.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1722.2251, "end": 1722.545 } ], "start": 1722.2251, "end": 1722.545, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay, also die Gestaltungsfreiheit war nicht so groß.", "start": 1722.545, "end": 1725.505 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 1725.505, "end": 1726.005 } ], "start": 1722.545, "end": 1726.005, "num_words": 9.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Trotzdem oder gerade deshalb ist es natürlich superspannend, was die Einschätzung der der Beteiligten in dem Kontext ist.", "start": 1726.865, "end": 1732.16 }, { "text": "Also wir haben's ja erst eben gesagt, eine klassische OZG Umsetzung, die wir hier haben, klassisches Digitalisierungsprojekt.", "start": 1732.16, "end": 1736.66 }, { "text": "Onlinezugangsgesetz, Mike.", "start": 1737.3601, "end": 1739.14 }, { "text": "Oder?", "start": 1739.28, "end": 1739.6001 }, { "text": "Onlinezugangsgesetz Okay.", "start": 1739.6001, "end": 1740.5801 } ], "start": 1726.865, "end": 1740.5801, "num_words": 40.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, wo wir diese magischen 575 Leistungen digitalisieren wollen und auch schon einige Fortschritte in dem Bereich gemacht haben.", "start": 1741.68, "end": 1750.615 }, { "text": "Und dann kann man jetzt mal einmal an einem relativ komplexen Antragsverfahren man einmal diese diese Nachhaltigkeitskriterien versuchen zu bewerten und hat damit natürlich auch Erkenntnisse, was das für die oder welche Wirkung die gesamte Digitalisierung in dem Bereich Mhm.", "start": 1750.615, "end": 1766.13 }, { "text": "Haben kann.", "start": 1766.4299, "end": 1767.07 } ], "start": 1741.68, "end": 1767.07, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also", "start": 1767.07, "end": 1767.23 } ], "start": 1767.07, "end": 1767.23, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "es es lässt sich schon drüber eskalieren, was man da rausbekommen hat.", "start": 1767.23, "end": 1770.0499 } ], "start": 1767.23, "end": 1770.0499, "num_words": 12.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Als Drittes würde ich gerne über das Multilokal Stocksee sprechen.", "start": 1770.315, "end": 1773.595 }, { "text": "Das ist das, was Du schon angeteast hast.", "start": 1773.595, "end": 1775.4349 }, { "text": "Das ist nämlich eigentlich weder 'n Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt noch 'n Digitalprojekt, muss man sagen.", "start": 1775.4349, "end": 1779.9149 }, { "text": "Das ist 'n Bauprojekt.", "start": 1779.9149, "end": 1780.8949 }, { "text": "Wie habt ihr denn den Canvas da nutzen können?", "start": 1781.4349, "end": 1784.8949 } ], "start": 1770.315, "end": 1784.8949, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, das war ein kleines Experiment, würd ich mal sagen, weil wir uns gefragt haben, diese Kriterien, die wir da aufgestellt haben, lassen sie sich eigentlich nur auf Digitalprojekte anwenden?", "start": 1785.13, "end": 1794.4099 }, { "text": "Oder lassen sie sich vielleicht auf ganz klassische Kommunalprojekte auch anwenden, was halt in dem Fall jetzt hier die Renovierung und den Ausbau 1 Immobilie in kommunaler Hand ist.", "start": 1794.4099, "end": 1803.9349 } ], "start": 1785.13, "end": 1803.9349, "num_words": 59.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay, also dieses Multilokal, einfach damit man sich das mal vorstellen kann, da soll einfach 'n neuer Ort in 'nem ländlichen Raum, nehm ich mal an, etabliert werden.", "start": 1803.995, "end": 1813.15 } ], "start": 1803.995, "end": 1813.15, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, also es gibt es gibt diese Immobilie, also vor allem, das auch noch mal wichtig zu erwähnen, das Projekt befindet sich in Planung, also da ist noch nichts passiert, da ist momentan gerade die Ideenfindung.", "start": 1813.15, "end": 1822.61 }, { "text": "Und die haben halt nun mal in der Kommune diese eine alte Meierei, das ist eine, so wie ich das verstanden hab, eine baufällige Immobilie.", "start": 1822.91, "end": 1830.505 } ], "start": 1813.15, "end": 1830.505, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ich hab mich gefragt, was ist eine Meierei?", "start": 1831.205, "end": 1832.985 } ], "start": 1831.205, "end": 1832.985, "num_words": 8.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Da wird was mit Milch gemacht.", "start": 1833.525, "end": 1834.985 }, { "text": "Ich kann's dir nicht genauer sagen.", "start": 1835.365, "end": 1837.065 } ], "start": 1833.525, "end": 1837.065, "num_words": 12.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wurde.", "start": 1837.125, "end": 1837.625 }, { "text": "Ja, wurde.", "start": 1837.6849, "end": 1838.085 }, { "text": "Es steht halt einfach, ja, es steht halt einfach leer.", "start": 1838.085, "end": 1840.505 } ], "start": 1837.125, "end": 1840.505, "num_words": 13.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 1840.805, "end": 1841.285 } ], "start": 1840.805, "end": 1841.285, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und die steht am Dorfplatz und der Dorfplatz ist ziemlich verweist.", "start": 1841.285, "end": 1845.2 }, { "text": "Und der Wunsch der Kommune wäre eigentlich, den wieder zu beleben.", "start": 1845.26, "end": 1848.46 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1848.46, "end": 1848.86 }, { "text": "Und eine Idee wäre dann halt, dieses Gebäude zu renovieren und auszubauen zu einem, deswegen heißt es Multilokal, zu einem multifunktionalen Ort, in dem halt verschiedene Sachen angeboten werden.", "start": 1848.86, "end": 1859.76 }, { "text": "Unter anderem 'n Co Working's place, son, Sie haben's multifunktionalen Ort genannt halt im unteren Bereich, Ostern vielleicht eine Bar, gibt so Hocker und verschiedene Spieleangebote, irgendwas, was halt die Menschen wieder stärker an diesen Dorf Platz bringt.", "start": 1860.2749, "end": 1875.1749 } ], "start": 1841.285, "end": 1875.1749, "num_words": 90.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Da stecken natürlich dann auch wieder ganz so viel Schwierigkeiten mit drin.", "start": 1875.84, "end": 1880.24 }, { "text": "Ganz zuvorderst natürlich die Finanzierung, weil sone die kleine Kommune halt wirklich finanziell nur begrenzte Mittel hat, da Okay.", "start": 1880.24, "end": 1888.1599 }, { "text": "Was draus zu machen.", "start": 1888.32, "end": 1889.46 } ], "start": 1875.84, "end": 1889.46, "num_words": 35.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Aber das klingt jetzt nach so Workshop Teilnehmenden, die vor vielen, vielen Herausforderungen stehen.", "start": 1889.8451, "end": 1895.625 }, { "text": "Wie haben die dann reagiert, als ihr ihnen dann auch noch den Canvas vorgelegt habt und gesagt habt irgendwie, wir haben da ja noch was, worüber ihr nachdenken muss?", "start": 1897.125, "end": 1907.1901 } ], "start": 1889.8451, "end": 1907.1901, "num_words": 43.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Na ja, in dem Fall wars eher so als Inspiration zu verstehen, Ja.", "start": 1908.29, "end": 1911.81 }, { "text": "Weil wir ja noch so früh in der in der Planungsphase sind und dann war die Schwierigkeit, mit dem Canvas erst mal die richtige Flughöhe zu treffen.", "start": 1911.89, "end": 1920.725 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 1920.785, "end": 1921.285 }, { "text": "Weil dadurch, dass es halt diesen Digitalhintergrund hat und zum Beispiel für den Co Working Space, der da geplant ist, wird eine Buchungsplattform gebraucht oder beziehungsweise die haben da schon eine im Kopf.", "start": 1923.105, "end": 1934.78 }, { "text": "Jetzt könnte man natürlich hingehen und sagen, wir wenden diesen die diesen Canvas vor allem auf diese Buchungsplattform an, ne.", "start": 1934.9199, "end": 1942.0399 } ], "start": 1908.29, "end": 1942.0399, "num_words": 94.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und schauen uns da die Nachhaltigkeitskriterien an, aber das war ja gar nicht das Ziel.", "start": 1942.0399, "end": 1945.2649 } ], "start": 1942.0399, "end": 1945.2649, "num_words": 15.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Weil das sozusagen das digitale", "start": 1945.2649, "end": 1946.465 } ], "start": 1945.2649, "end": 1946.465, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Weil es das genau.", "start": 1946.625, "end": 1947.445 }, { "text": "Wäre.", "start": 1947.6649, "end": 1948.1449 }, { "text": "Genau, weil weil's ja irgendwie Also heutzutage 'n Projekt zu finden, was komplett ohne digital auskommt, fast schon selten würde ich mal vermuten.", "start": 1948.1449, "end": 1955.745 }, { "text": "Also ist ja irgendwo spielt immer digital mit rein und man könnte sich natürlich diese Digitalaspekte rauspicken und die jetzt betrachten.", "start": 1955.745, "end": 1961.37 }, { "text": "Aber wir haben jetzt halt vor allem auf die Immobilie schauen wollen.", "start": 1961.99, "end": 1965.51 } ], "start": 1946.625, "end": 1965.51, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und da war dem dem Bürgermeister in dem Workshop, der dem war ganz wichtig, dass die Kommune vorangeht, was Nachhaltigkeit angeht.", "start": 1965.51, "end": 1970.4868 }, { "text": "Also bei dem Ausbau der Immobilie war ihm halt ganz wichtig, dass diese klassischen Nachhaltigkeitsaspekte bei 'ner bei 'ner Renovierung beachtet werden.", "start": 1970.4868, "end": 1979.845 } ], "start": 1965.51, "end": 1979.845, "num_words": 43.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also dass sozusagen die Leute dann nicht sagen können, wieso, wenn soll ich eine Wärmepumpe einbauen, wenn ihr keine habt?", "start": 1979.845, "end": 1984.8049 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 1984.8049, "end": 1985.0449 }, { "text": "Oder so.", "start": 1985.0449, "end": 1985.365 }, { "text": "Ex.", "start": 1985.365, "end": 1985.605 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 1985.605, "end": 1986.005 } ], "start": 1979.845, "end": 1986.005, "num_words": 25.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sone sone sone Sachen.", "start": 1986.005, "end": 1987.125 }, { "text": "Und deswegen war war ihm da 'n großer, also hat er da 'n großen Schwerpunkt draufgelegt.", "start": 1987.125, "end": 1992.0249 }, { "text": "Und ansonsten halt diese ganzen Punkte, wenn wir da 'n multifunktionalen Ort einrichten wollen, aber vermutlich nicht das Geld haben werden, da immer jemanden vor Ort zu haben, der aufpassen kann, was da passiert, dass es dann son bisschen Konflikte geben kann.", "start": 1993.26, "end": 2007.885 }, { "text": "Wir haben's dann ja unter dem Kriterium Sicherheit diskutiert zum Beispiel, ne.", "start": 2007.885, "end": 2011.5851 }, { "text": "Also wie viel Freiraum will man den Menschen vor Ort dann eigentlich geben, was sie mit diesem Ort anstellen können, ne?", "start": 2011.805, "end": 2016.925 } ], "start": 1986.005, "end": 2016.925, "num_words": 95.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Weil Vandalismus wär zum Beispiel dann wieder 'n Risiko.", "start": 2016.925, "end": 2019.48 }, { "text": "Muss man deswegen Kameras installieren, aber Kameras würden dann wieder so so Sone Atmosphäre Genau.", "start": 2019.5599, "end": 2025.84 }, { "text": "Son", "start": 2025.96, "end": 2026.2 } ], "start": 2016.925, "end": 2026.2, "num_words": 25.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "bisschen Misstrauen Es ist ja auch so.", "start": 2026.2, "end": 2027.72 } ], "start": 2026.2, "end": 2027.72, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So.", "start": 2027.7999, "end": 2028.12 }, { "text": "Da gab's dann wieder eine ganze Reihe von Konflikten, die wir so auf dieser sozialen Ebene andiskutiert haben.", "start": 2028.12, "end": 2032.76 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 2032.76, "end": 2033.26 } ], "start": 2027.7999, "end": 2033.26, "num_words": 20.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 2033.32, "end": 2033.82 }, { "text": "Ich würde gerne noch dein deine Ursprungsfrage 'n bisschen umdrehen.", "start": 2034.475, "end": 2037.2749 }, { "text": "Ich würd sie ganz gerne andersrum stellen wollen.", "start": 2037.2749, "end": 2039.5149 }, { "text": "Du hast ja gesagt, das ist ja ein ein gigantisches Risiko, dass man solche Kriterien wie Nachhaltigkeitskriterien dann noch mal oben dranpappt und damit dann Ja, man hat vielleicht", "start": 2039.5149, "end": 2047.85 } ], "start": 2033.32, "end": 2047.85, "num_words": 48.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "schon den Denkmalschutz am Hals wegen der Altenmalerei und so weiter.", "start": 2047.85, "end": 2050.49 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 2050.49, "end": 2050.65 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 2050.65, "end": 2050.73 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 2050.73, "end": 2051.23 } ], "start": 2047.85, "end": 2051.23, "num_words": 14.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das ist 'n gewaltiges Risiko und der Ansatz hier ist ja genau, das Spiel umzudrehen.", "start": 2051.53, "end": 2055.79 }, { "text": "Nämlich diese Nachhaltigkeitskriterium zum in diesem Fall ja auch für die Projektentwicklung wichtigen Aspekt zu machen, zum integralen Bestandteil.", "start": 2056.33, "end": 2064.0352 }, { "text": "Und man darf ja auch nicht vergessen, dass diese Erreichung der Nachhaltigkeitsziele ja auch einfach im Sinne der Wirkungsorientierung auch wieder auch einfach Vorteile für das Projekt und für die Projektdurchführenden mit sich bringt.", "start": 2064.0352, "end": 2076.67 }, { "text": "Also wenn ich wirtschaftliche Nachhaltigkeitskriterien erfülle, dann steht das Projekt normalerweise aus solideren Füßen.", "start": 2076.67, "end": 2081.71 }, { "text": "Ist grade bei fürn an schwachen Kommunen natürlich ganz besonders wichtig.", "start": 2081.71, "end": 2084.8499 } ], "start": 2051.53, "end": 2084.8499, "num_words": 93.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 2084.91, "end": 2085.31 }, { "text": "Also deswegen oder man sollte ein bisschen dahin kommen, ist nicht als Add on, als obendrauf, nicht als Verzierung am Rande, als Ornament zu verstehen, sondern halt als integralen Bestandteil des des Planungsprozesses, wenn man grade so früh in dem Stadium steckt.", "start": 2085.31, "end": 2099.1548 } ], "start": 2084.91, "end": 2099.1548, "num_words": 43.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 2099.1548, "end": 2099.4749 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 2099.4749, "end": 2099.9749 }, { "text": "Gut, also all das kann man nachlesen in der aktuellen Veröffentlichung.", "start": 2100.62, "end": 2104.6401 }, { "text": "Ihr seid sozusagen zurückgekehrt zum Papierformat, also ihr habt mit der Canvas angefangen, seid dann in die Praxis gegangen, seid jetzt zurück in der Dokumentation.", "start": 2105.34, "end": 2112.72 }, { "text": "Warum war euch das denn auch wichtig, diese Anwendungsfälle dann zu dokumentieren?", "start": 2113.7048, "end": 2116.845 } ], "start": 2099.1548, "end": 2116.845, "num_words": 50.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Zweierlei.", "start": 2118.1848, "end": 2118.6848 }, { "text": "Also das eine ist, dass das einfach so ist, wie wir arbeiten.", "start": 2119.4648, "end": 2123.625 }, { "text": "Also ich mein, da muss 'n Papier bei rauskommen.", "start": 2123.625, "end": 2125.9648 } ], "start": 2118.1848, "end": 2125.9648, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das ist unsere eigene Wirkungsorientierung.", "start": 2126.105, "end": 2127.565 } ], "start": 2126.105, "end": 2127.565, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, so möchte ihr das mit dem KPI Papier.", "start": 2128.51, "end": 2130.9302 } ], "start": 2128.51, "end": 2130.9302, "num_words": 9.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 2131.31, "end": 2131.6301 }, { "text": "Wir müssen einfach x Papiere produzieren und deswegen war das auf jeden Fall von Anfang an mit drin.", "start": 2131.6301, "end": 2136.35 }, { "text": "Nach den Workshops würden wir die noch mal zusammenführen.", "start": 2136.35, "end": 2138.2102 }, { "text": "Aber wir haben natürlich auch damit 'n klares Vernetzungsangebot, ne.", "start": 2138.51, "end": 2142.465 }, { "text": "Also wir wir zeigen diese Beispiele.", "start": 2142.465, "end": 2144.3252 } ], "start": 2131.31, "end": 2144.3252, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wir verlinken auf die Projektseiten.", "start": 2144.385, "end": 2146.3252 }, { "text": "Wir hoffen, dass da Interessierte diese Projekte entweder als Inspiration lesen oder sich vielleicht auch tatsächlich melden bei den Projektverantwortlichen, vielleicht eigene Projekte zu initiieren.", "start": 2147.185, "end": 2156.5652 }, { "text": "Also aus dem Aspekt heraus find ich, ist es auf jeden Fall sinnvoll, da noch mal 'n halt diesen Impuls zu schreiben.", "start": 2157.02, "end": 2163.8398 }, { "text": "Und wir haben dann nachher nach hinten heraus ja auch noch 2, 3 Handlungsempfehlungen, die quasi diese Projekte zusammenführen.", "start": 2164.46, "end": 2169.68 } ], "start": 2144.385, "end": 2169.68, "num_words": 71.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, das find ich spannend.", "start": 2169.9, "end": 2171.02 }, { "text": "Also ihr habt aus diesem aus diesen 5 sehr, sehr unterschiedlichen Projekten und Workshops habt ihr so was Generelles ableiten können sozusagen.", "start": 2171.02, "end": 2179.2449 } ], "start": 2169.9, "end": 2179.2449, "num_words": 27.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, das war auch von Anfang an das Ziel.", "start": 2179.4648, "end": 2181.625 }, { "text": "Also Ja.", "start": 2181.625, "end": 2181.9448 }, { "text": "Klar, das eine war, dass wir für uns noch mal reflektiert haben, wie wir vielleicht auch die Chemnitzmethodik anpassen können, aber das war jetzt nicht Ziel in den Handlungsempfehlungen.", "start": 2182.025, "end": 2189.57 }, { "text": "Handlungsempfehlungen waren ja eher nach außen gerichtet, noch mal zu schauen, was können wir eigentlich mitgeben?", "start": 2189.7102, "end": 2194.37 }, { "text": "Da haben sich eigentlich so 3 Sachen, würd ich sagen, rauskristallisiert.", "start": 2194.9102, "end": 2199.97 } ], "start": 2179.4648, "end": 2199.97, "num_words": 67.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Das ist zum einen, dass wir zumindest den Eindruck hatten, dass die SDGs auf der hohen Flughöhe, wie sie jetzt halt auf auf UN Ebene existieren, für die Kommunen wirklich nur begrenzt sinnvoll sind, grade auch wenn's dann nach Richtung KPIs geht.", "start": 2200.59, "end": 2213.865 }, { "text": "Es gibt ja verschiedene Länderstrategien, wo die dann konkretisiert werden und für den eigenen Kontext irgendwie adaptiert.", "start": 2213.865, "end": 2219.99 }, { "text": "Die sind das auf jeden Fall schon viel sinnvoller.", "start": 2220.13, "end": 2221.8298 }, { "text": "Aber man kann das ja noch weiter runterbrechen, ne.", "start": 2221.89, "end": 2223.73 }, { "text": "Also dass sich da vielleicht auch mal eine eine Kommune sich Gedanken macht, welche SDGs sind für mich jetzt in meinem Kontext ganz", "start": 2223.73, "end": 2230.975 } ], "start": 2200.59, "end": 2230.975, "num_words": 100.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also ich grad mal auf den 21 irgendwie die zentralen 17 17 nicht raus.", "start": 2231.135, "end": 2234.295 }, { "text": "17, genau.", "start": 2234.655, "end": 2235.375 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 2235.375, "end": 2235.695 } ], "start": 2231.135, "end": 2235.695, "num_words": 17.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Aber auch da ist es natürlich großartig, diese Basis zu haben, die man sich konkretisieren lässt und dann halt sich zu überlegen, wie kann ich vor Ort möglicherweise Staaten beim Einfachsten erfassen.", "start": 2235.695, "end": 2244.48 } ], "start": 2235.695, "end": 2244.48, "num_words": 32.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau, also ich bin ja großer Fan davon, das nicht, aber ich würd's halt wünschen, dass Du noch häufiger nach unten nennen durch Ja.", "start": 2244.7, "end": 2250.22 } ], "start": 2244.7, "end": 2250.22, "num_words": 24.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also das ist die erste Handlungsempfehlung, dass man sagt, macht Nachhaltigkeit konkreter und damit anwendbarer.", "start": 2250.22, "end": 2256.335 } ], "start": 2250.22, "end": 2256.335, "num_words": 15.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau und denkt bestimmt die entsprechende Indikator dazu.", "start": 2256.795, "end": 2259.055 }, { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 2259.195, "end": 2259.5151 } ], "start": 2256.795, "end": 2259.5151, "num_words": 9.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 2259.5151, "end": 2260.0151 } ], "start": 2259.5151, "end": 2260.0151, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Den größten Mehrwert, den ich in den Workshops empfunden habe, war eigentlich, wenn die Teams da zusammengekommen sind und darüber diskutiert haben.", "start": 2260.075, "end": 2267.61 } ], "start": 2260.075, "end": 2267.61, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhm.", "start": 2267.85, "end": 2268.33 } ], "start": 2267.85, "end": 2268.33, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Einfach dieser Austausch, grade auch in den kleinen Teams.", "start": 2268.33, "end": 2270.8901 }, { "text": "Wenn man dann als ich hab jetzt ein konkretes Thema, sei es die Barriere, vor allem meine Anwendung.", "start": 2270.8901, "end": 2276.1902 }, { "text": "Und ich diskutier jetzt darüber immer mit 10 Minuten und bring die verschiedenen Perspektiven da zusammen und sehe, an den und den Stellen hapert es vielleicht noch oder aber da hat dann direkt jemand eine Idee dazu gehabt.", "start": 2276.4102, "end": 2287.985 }, { "text": "Und das könnten wir doch eigentlich so und so machen.", "start": 2287.985, "end": 2290.225 }, { "text": "Also einfach mal, und es waren ja nur 3 Stunden, die wir da in den in den Workshops hatten, aber ich hatte schon 'n Eindruck, dass da viel, ja, in den meisten Fällen viel positive Energie dabei war und auch vielleicht nur diesen kleinen Impuls mal gebraucht hatte, sich mal die Zeit zu nehmen, darüber zu reden.", "start": 2290.225, "end": 2302.84 } ], "start": 2268.33, "end": 2302.84, "num_words": 132.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also, dass es gut ist, einfach diese Gespräche über Nachhaltigkeit zu führen, weil die produktiv sind und man's sonst nicht macht.", "start": 2302.84, "end": 2309.0 }, { "text": "Also es macht 'n Raum auf,", "start": 2309.0, "end": 2310.345 } ], "start": 2302.84, "end": 2310.345, "num_words": 27.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja.", "start": 2310.425, "end": 2310.665 } ], "start": 2310.425, "end": 2310.665, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Der dem Projekt guttut sozusagen.", "start": 2310.7449, "end": 2312.765 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 2312.825, "end": 2313.305 }, { "text": "Okay.", "start": 2313.305, "end": 2313.465 }, { "text": "Also das wär sozusagen die zweite Handlungsempfehlung.", "start": 2313.465, "end": 2315.325 }, { "text": "Macht das, setzt euch hin, sind gut investierte 2, 3 Stunden sozusagen.", "start": 2315.465, "end": 2319.085 } ], "start": 2310.7449, "end": 2319.085, "num_words": 26.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 2319.2249, "end": 2319.625 }, { "text": "Muss ja gar nicht mal unsere Canvas Open World sein, sagen wir ja gar nicht, aber einfach nur diese diese Idee zu sich Ja.", "start": 2319.625, "end": 2324.05 }, { "text": "Mal herzunehmen.", "start": 2324.09, "end": 2324.75 }, { "text": "Genau.", "start": 2325.1301, "end": 2325.45 }, { "text": "Und das Dritte ist eigentlich, den Bogen dann zu Ende und den Kreis zu schließen, das, was wir eigentlich, mit dem wir auch gestartet sind, Nachhaltigkeit eben nicht als Zusatzaufgabe zu verstehen, sondern Integral in die Projekte einzubinden.", "start": 2325.45, "end": 2338.19 } ], "start": 2319.2249, "end": 2338.19, "num_words": 66.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und weil das dann nicht mehr als Mehraufwand begriffen werden muss.", "start": 2338.765, "end": 2343.185 } ], "start": 2338.765, "end": 2343.185, "num_words": 11.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Jetzt habt ihr diese 5 Projekte begleitet, habt das dokumentiert.", "start": 2344.125, "end": 2347.825 }, { "text": "Den Canvas gibt's ja weiter.", "start": 2348.765, "end": 2350.605 }, { "text": "Ich glaube, auch in der weiterentwickelten Form.", "start": 2350.605, "end": 2352.525 }, { "text": "Also das heißt, da kann man weiterhin damit arbeiten.", "start": 2352.525, "end": 2354.52 } ], "start": 2344.125, "end": 2354.52, "num_words": 31.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, genau.", "start": 2355.0, "end": 2355.48 }, { "text": "Also das Canvas ist sowohl analog noch in unserer im Impulspapier oder in unserem Whitepaper als auch als Onlinetool kostenlos über unsere Website aufzurufen.", "start": 2355.48, "end": 2365.9 }, { "text": "Das Tool ist so weiterentwickelt, dass wir hoffen, dass es eigenständig auch in in in Teams genutzt werden kann.", "start": 2366.28, "end": 2373.495 }, { "text": "Wir sind natürlich auch immer, wenn's Nachfragen gibt, kann man sich einfach an unsere iffid Mail wenden und wir sind auch immer gerne bereit, irgendwie auch mal in in 'ner kleinen Runde Dinge zu erklären.", "start": 2373.955, "end": 2383.095 }, { "text": "Und unsere Hoffnung ist halt, dass das Canvas nicht nur auf kommunaler Ebene Anwendung findet, sondern vielleicht auch auf Landes- oder Bundesebene mal ausprobiert werden kann.", "start": 2383.32, "end": 2392.3801 } ], "start": 2355.0, "end": 2392.3801, "num_words": 106.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Weil wenn auch die Anforderungen der andere sind, das Canvas aus unserer Sicht, wir können auch da Anwendung finden.", "start": 2392.6802, "end": 2399.2249 } ], "start": 2392.6802, "end": 2399.2249, "num_words": 19.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ja, okay.", "start": 2399.285, "end": 2399.6848 }, { "text": "Das wär natürlich total spannend.", "start": 2399.6848, "end": 2401.2249 } ], "start": 2399.285, "end": 2401.2249, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und dann auch immer gerne Rückmeldung an uns, weil's irgendwas funktioniert hat oder nicht.", "start": 2401.365, "end": 2404.2449 }, { "text": "Ja.", "start": 2404.2449, "end": 2404.645 }, { "text": "Das Kann", "start": 2404.645, "end": 2405.605 } ], "start": 2401.365, "end": 2405.605, "num_words": 17.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "man's noch mal anpassen und noch übersichtlicher machen.", "start": 2405.605, "end": 2407.9448 } ], "start": 2405.605, "end": 2407.9448, "num_words": 8.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Genau.", "start": 2408.005, "end": 2408.505 } ], "start": 2408.005, "end": 2408.505, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Und die Nachhaltigkeitsanforderungen bleiben natürlich bestehen, ja.", "start": 2409.5, "end": 2412.64 }, { "text": "Die werden uns nicht erspart bleiben, deswegen nur der Aufruf noch mal, es möglichst bereit zu verwenden und dann auch gleich Wirkungsorientierung mit in die Projekte reinzudenken.", "start": 2412.7, "end": 2423.2 } ], "start": 2409.5, "end": 2423.2, "num_words": 34.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay, danke euch.", "start": 2424.165, "end": 2425.5251 }, { "text": "Das war schön, auch mal son son Zyklus zu Ende gehen zu gehen und zu gucken, nicht nur, was haben wir in die Welt gesetzt, sondern auch, was ist dann draus geworden?", "start": 2425.5251, "end": 2432.725 }, { "text": "Total spannend.", "start": 2432.725, "end": 2433.5251 }, { "text": "Vielen Dank.", "start": 2433.5251, "end": 2434.2651 } ], "start": 2424.165, "end": 2434.2651, "num_words": 39.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Vielen Dank.", "start": 2434.965, "end": 2435.685 }, { "text": "Dankeschön.", "start": 2435.685, "end": 2436.185 } ], "start": 2434.965, "end": 2436.185, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Nachhaltigkeit und Digitalisierung zusammen gedacht, das war unser Thema heute bei restart digital.", "start": 2438.71, "end": 2444.25 }, { "text": "Mit dabei waren meine Kollegen vom Fraunhofer Kompetenzzentrum öffentliche IT, Mike Weber und Dorian Wachsmann.", "start": 2444.8699, "end": 2451.13 }, { "text": "Den Nachhaltigkeitscanvas findet ihr zusammen mit vielen weiteren Impulsen zum Thema Digitalisierung im öffentlichen Sektor auf unserer Webseite öFIT Punkt d e mit o e geschrieben.", "start": 2452.2249, "end": 2462.005 }, { "text": "Wenn euch der Podcast gefallen dann empfehlt uns gerne weiter und wenn ihr's noch nicht getan habt, könnt ihr uns auch kostenfrei abonnieren auf Spotify, Apple Podcasts und vielen weiteren Portalen.", "start": 2462.545, "end": 2472.82 }, { "text": "Ich bin Franziska Walser, vielen Dank fürs Zuhören und bis bald.", "start": 2473.52, "end": 2477.2349 } ], "start": 2438.71, "end": 2477.2349, "num_words": 96.0, "speaker": 0 } ] }, "entities": null, "translations": null, "topics": null } ], "detected_language": "" } ], "utterances": [ { "start": 1.92, "end": 7.7, "confidence": 0.9873698, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Wer unseren Podcast restart digital regelmäßig hört, dem wird unser heutiges Thema vielleicht bekannt vorkommen.", "words": [ { "word": 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Was gab's da fürn Bedarf? 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Genau, wir hatten das damals auch Genau. Dieses son großes Poster, ne. 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Das war die Idee. Wir sind von dem Businessmodel Canvas ausgegangen. Das ist die ähnliche Idee, wo man im Endeffekt diese neuen Felder hat, die man nacheinander ausfüllen kann. Und am Ende hat man eine Übersicht über das eigene Businessmodell. 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Und zu sagen, okay, wenn ich 'n Digitalisierungsprojekt", "words": [ { "word": "ja", "start": 241.66501, "end": 241.905, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "ja", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.89338636 }, { "word": "häufig", "start": 241.905, "end": 242.225, "confidence": 0.9902344, "punctuated_word": "häufig", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.89338636 }, { "word": "adressiert", "start": 242.225, "end": 242.705, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "adressiert", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.89338636 }, { "word": "werden", "start": 242.705, "end": 243.205, "confidence": 0.9741211, "punctuated_word": "werden.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.89338636 }, { "word": "und", "start": 243.265, "end": 243.425, "confidence": 0.8769531, "punctuated_word": "Und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.89338636 }, { "word": "zu", "start": 243.425, "end": 243.585, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "zu", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.89338636 }, { "word": "sagen", "start": 243.585, "end": 243.825, "confidence": 0.98583984, "punctuated_word": "sagen,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.89338636 }, { "word": "okay", "start": 243.825, "end": 244.065, "confidence": 0.99560547, "punctuated_word": "okay,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.89338636 }, { "word": "wenn", "start": 244.065, "end": 244.225, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "wenn", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.89338636 }, { "word": "ich", "start": 244.225, "end": 244.30501, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7960532 }, { "word": "'n", "start": 244.30501, "end": 244.545, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "'n", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7960532 }, { "word": "digitalisierungsprojekt", "start": 244.545, "end": 245.045, "confidence": 0.97631836, "punctuated_word": "Digitalisierungsprojekt", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7960532 } ], "speaker": 1, "id": "0ffe1e5b-358a-42a7-a3e6-40694e865f1d" }, { "start": 245.345, "end": 248.80501, "confidence": 0.9833609, "channel": 0, "transcript": "umsetze, will ich eigentlich schauen, wo verortet sich das dann in meinen Nachhaltigkeitszielen?", "words": [ { "word": "umsetze", "start": 245.345, "end": 245.745, "confidence": 0.99316406, "punctuated_word": "umsetze,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7960532 }, { "word": "will", "start": 245.745, "end": 245.905, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "will", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7960532 }, { "word": "ich", "start": 245.905, "end": 246.065, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7960532 }, { "word": "eigentlich", "start": 246.065, "end": 246.225, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "eigentlich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7960532 }, { "word": "schauen", "start": 246.225, "end": 246.465, "confidence": 0.99658203, "punctuated_word": "schauen,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7960532 }, { "word": "wo", "start": 246.465, "end": 246.625, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "wo", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7960532 }, { "word": "verortet", "start": 246.625, "end": 247.105, "confidence": 0.99658203, "punctuated_word": "verortet", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7960532 }, { "word": "sich", "start": 247.105, "end": 247.185, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "sich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8334689 }, { "word": "das", "start": 247.185, "end": 247.425, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "das", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8334689 }, { "word": "dann", "start": 247.425, "end": 247.66501, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "dann", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8334689 }, { "word": "in", "start": 247.66501, "end": 247.905, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "in", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8334689 }, { "word": "meinen", "start": 247.905, "end": 248.30501, "confidence": 0.91015625, "punctuated_word": "meinen", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8334689 }, { "word": "nachhaltigkeitszielen", "start": 248.30501, "end": 248.80501, "confidence": 0.8979492, "punctuated_word": "Nachhaltigkeitszielen?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8334689 } ], "speaker": 1, "id": "345252d6-3018-4d27-b205-5877926bc0fc" }, { "start": 250.385, "end": 262.54, "confidence": 0.97420245, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Und dann auf 'ner anderen Ebene, wie Du ja auch beschrieben hast, ne. Wenn ich dann meine digitalen Tools einsetze, wie kann ich die eigentlich gestalten, dass sie halt in allen 3 Dimensionen möglichst nachhaltig sind? Genau, dass man beides im Blick behält. Genau. 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Mhm. 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Mhm. Dass es schwierig ist, da einzusteigen. Also der Canvas war Ja, genau. Obwohl schon sehr runtergekocht, immer noch zu aufwendig Ja, also zu bearbeiten. So so war die Rückmeldung zumindest. Das heißt, wir haben dann im Anschluss versucht, das Tool auch noch online umzusetzen, dass es halt nicht auf Papier ist, sondern dass man damit eine Anleitung durchgeführt wird. 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Genau. Könnt ihr mal erzählen, wie die Workshops so ablaufen? Also wer wer kommt dahin? Fordern die das an? Wie bringt ihr's zu den Leuten? 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Und so haben wir dann jetzt 5 Projekte ausgesucht, die sich über 'n 'n 'n breites Spektrum abdecken.", "words": [ { "word": "hat", "start": 691.55, "end": 692.05, "confidence": 0.9914551, "punctuated_word": "hat.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.85558844 }, { "word": "und", "start": 692.11, "end": 692.19, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.85558844 }, { "word": "so", "start": 692.19, "end": 692.43, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "so", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.85558844 }, { "word": "haben", "start": 692.43, "end": 692.51, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "haben", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.85558844 }, { "word": "wir", "start": 692.51, "end": 692.67, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "wir", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.85558844 }, { "word": "dann", "start": 692.67, "end": 692.82996, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "dann", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8292788 }, { 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Genau, meistens eher doch 3 Stunden, weil's sich ja doch alles immer wieder zieht. 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Und dann haben wir das den Kennvest Teil schon ausgefüllt gehabt und sind nur noch mal ganz kurz durchgegangen. Passt das alles so? 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Das heißt, das werden wir relativ schnell abgehakt und dann sind wir eigentlich, und es war wirklich der größte Teil, diese 21 Nachhaltigkeitskriterien,", "words": [ { "word": "haben", "start": 811.21, "end": 811.37, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "haben", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.71107626 }, { "word": "wir", "start": 811.37, "end": 811.53, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "wir", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.71107626 }, { "word": "da", "start": 811.53, "end": 811.61005, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "da", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.71107626 }, { "word": "was", "start": 811.61005, "end": 811.77, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "was", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6637378 }, { "word": "falsch", "start": 811.77, "end": 812.01, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "falsch", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6637378 }, { "word": "gemacht", "start": 812.01, "end": 812.51, "confidence": 0.982666, 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Es kann ja sein, es spielt einfach überhaupt keine Rolle, irgendwie sauberes Wasser. Ja. Wir machen was ganz anderes, hat haben wir gar nichts damit zu tun. Genau. Genau, ja. Dann haben wir auch motiviert zu sagen, wenn 'n Kriterium keine Rolle spielt, dann könnte es auch werfen, weil es gab dann teilweise die Tendenz, ja, wir konstruieren uns jetzt hier irgendwas. Und wir müssen wollen alles erfüllen. Genau, aber das ist ja völliger Quatsch. 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Wird es vielleicht auch schon umgesetzt?", "words": [ { "word": "inwieweit", "start": 875.72504, "end": 876.045, "confidence": 0.8725586, "punctuated_word": "inwieweit?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9073703 }, { "word": "wird", "start": 876.045, "end": 876.205, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "Wird", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9073703 }, { "word": "es", "start": 876.205, "end": 876.365, "confidence": 0.9316406, "punctuated_word": "es", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9073703 }, { "word": "vielleicht", "start": 876.365, "end": 876.525, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "vielleicht", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9073703 }, { "word": "auch", "start": 876.525, "end": 876.685, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "auch", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.84466434 }, { "word": "schon", "start": 876.685, "end": 876.925, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "schon", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.84466434 }, { "word": 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Ja, 21 Kriterien ist auch erst mal eine Menge, ne, wenn man da Ja, das ist ja so über alles diskutiert, ja. Genau. Und auch wenn je größer das Team ist und dann mehr Input, dann kann man ja auch theoretisch über ein einzelnes Kriterium eine halbe Stunde reden, wenn's nicht wichtig ist. 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Wie wollt ihr die denn messen eigentlich? Das ist ja diese Frage nach den Key Performance Indikatoren.", "words": [ { "word": "gegangen", "start": 907.875, "end": 908.03503, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "gegangen", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8883956 }, { "word": "und", "start": 908.03503, "end": 908.275, "confidence": 0.9902344, "punctuated_word": "und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8883956 }, { "word": "haben", "start": 908.275, "end": 908.67505, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "haben", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8883956 }, { "word": "gefragt", "start": 908.67505, "end": 909.17505, "confidence": 0.99560547, "punctuated_word": "gefragt,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8883956 }, { "word": "okay", "start": 909.23505, "end": 909.47504, "confidence": 0.9848633, "punctuated_word": "okay,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8883956 }, { "word": "jetzt", "start": 909.47504, "end": 909.635, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "jetzt", "speaker": 1, 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Also da ist ja häufig 'n ja noch noch 'n weißes", "words": [ { "word": "ich", "start": 920.74005, "end": 920.9, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "sag", "start": 920.9, "end": 921.14, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "sag", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "mal", "start": 921.14, "end": 921.30005, "confidence": 0.78930664, "punctuated_word": "mal,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "noch", "start": 921.30005, "end": 921.78, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "noch", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "noch", "start": 921.78, "end": 922.18005, "confidence": 0.99316406, "punctuated_word": "noch", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "viel", "start": 922.18005, "end": 922.66003, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "viel", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "möglichkeit", "start": 922.66003, "end": 923.06006, "confidence": 0.9902344, "punctuated_word": "Möglichkeit", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "zur", "start": 923.06006, "end": 923.30005, "confidence": 0.98828125, "punctuated_word": "zur", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "verbesserung", "start": 923.30005, "end": 923.78, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "Verbesserung", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "gibt", "start": 923.78, "end": 923.94, "confidence": 0.9851074, "punctuated_word": "gibt.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "also", "start": 923.94, "end": 924.10004, "confidence": 0.99121094, "punctuated_word": "Also", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "da", "start": 924.10004, "end": 924.26, "confidence": 0.93847656, "punctuated_word": "da", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "ist", "start": 924.26, "end": 924.34, "confidence": 0.96435547, "punctuated_word": "ist", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "ja", "start": 924.34, "end": 924.5, "confidence": 0.52978516, "punctuated_word": "ja", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "häufig", "start": 924.5, "end": 925.0, "confidence": 0.9941406, "punctuated_word": "häufig", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "'n", "start": 925.06006, "end": 925.38, "confidence": 0.90722656, "punctuated_word": "'n", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "ja", "start": 925.38, "end": 925.88, "confidence": 0.25317383, "punctuated_word": "ja", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "noch", "start": 925.94, "end": 926.34, "confidence": 0.86621094, "punctuated_word": "noch", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "noch", "start": 926.34, "end": 926.5, "confidence": 0.9667969, "punctuated_word": "noch", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "'n", "start": 926.5, "end": 926.74005, "confidence": 0.99560547, "punctuated_word": "'n", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 }, { "word": "weißes", "start": 926.74005, "end": 927.24005, "confidence": 0.9604492, "punctuated_word": "weißes", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.909267 } ], "speaker": 1, "id": "4e7ebb44-90af-42f8-9a67-d0bb108e9138" }, { "start": 927.78, "end": 937.44495, "confidence": 0.9429903, "channel": 0, "transcript": "weißes Feld gewesen, Aber auch großes Interesse, da drüber nachzudenken und zu sich zu fragen, okay, wie wie kann man so was eigentlich messen? 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Dimensionen, wie stellt ihr euch eigentlich vor? Welchen Impact kann euer Projekt haben? Im Positiven wie im Negativen?", "words": [ { "word": "in", "start": 941.665, "end": 941.90497, "confidence": 0.99316406, "punctuated_word": "in", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8910662 }, { "word": "den", "start": 941.90497, "end": 942.065, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "den", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8910662 }, { "word": "3", "start": 942.065, "end": 942.51, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "3", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8910662 }, { "word": "dimensionen", "start": 942.67, "end": 943.07, "confidence": 0.9538574, "punctuated_word": "Dimensionen,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8910662 }, { "word": "wie", "start": 943.07, "end": 943.27, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "wie", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8910662 }, { "word": "stellt", "start": 943.27, "end": 943.47003, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "stellt", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8910662 }, { "word": "ihr", "start": 943.47003, "end": 943.55, "confidence": 0.9741211, "punctuated_word": "ihr", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.83793247 }, { "word": "euch", "start": 943.55, "end": 943.79004, "confidence": 0.9921875, "punctuated_word": "euch", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.83793247 }, { "word": "eigentlich", "start": 943.79004, "end": 944.03, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "eigentlich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.83793247 }, { "word": "vor", "start": 944.03, "end": 944.19, "confidence": 0.795166, "punctuated_word": "vor?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.83793247 }, { "word": "welchen", "start": 944.19, "end": 944.51, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Welchen", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.83793247 }, { "word": "impact", "start": 944.51, "end": 944.83, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Impact", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.83793247 }, { "word": "kann", "start": 944.83, "end": 945.07, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "kann", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.83793247 }, { "word": "euer", "start": 945.07, "end": 945.31, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "euer", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.83793247 }, { "word": "projekt", "start": 945.31, "end": 945.63, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Projekt", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.83793247 }, { "word": "haben", "start": 945.63, "end": 945.83, "confidence": 0.7199707, "punctuated_word": "haben?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.83793247 }, { "word": "im", "start": 945.83, "end": 946.03, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "Im", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.83793247 }, { "word": "positiven", "start": 946.03, "end": 946.35004, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "Positiven", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.83793247 }, { "word": "wie", "start": 946.35004, "end": 946.59, "confidence": 0.9770508, "punctuated_word": "wie", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.83793247 }, { "word": "im", "start": 946.59, "end": 946.75, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "im", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.83793247 }, { "word": "negativen", "start": 946.75, "end": 947.25, "confidence": 0.7760417, "punctuated_word": "Negativen?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.83793247 } ], "speaker": 1, "id": "5f4ccb13-ea18-47f7-8cf0-c1785e1f4037" }, { "start": 948.03, "end": 949.17, "confidence": 0.9549805, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Das ist ja diese Wirkungsorientierung", "words": [ { "word": "das", "start": 948.03, "end": 948.11, "confidence": 0.9941406, "punctuated_word": "Das", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7165847 }, { "word": "ist", "start": 948.11, "end": 948.19, "confidence": 0.7817383, "punctuated_word": "ist", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7165847 }, { "word": "ja", "start": 948.19, "end": 948.43, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ja", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7165847 }, { "word": "diese", "start": 948.43, "end": 948.67, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "diese", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7165847 }, { "word": "wirkungsorientierung", "start": 948.67, "end": 949.17, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Wirkungsorientierung", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7165847 } ], "speaker": 0, "id": "7012e766-3b1f-4f0a-9de1-9ba3162b31ae" }, { "start": 949.47003, "end": 959.42505, "confidence": 0.94320387, "channel": 0, "transcript": "im Prinzip, Mike, wo Du gerade gesagt hast, das ist gerade das große Ding. Das ist die ganz hohe Kunst der Wirkungsorientierung, ja. Und wenn man das dann noch schafft über diese Key Performance Indicator, wie er sie nennt,", "words": [ { "word": "im", "start": 949.47003, "end": 949.79004, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "im", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7165847 }, { "word": "prinzip", "start": 949.79004, "end": 949.95, "confidence": 0.99560547, "punctuated_word": "Prinzip,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7165847 }, { "word": "mike", "start": 949.95, "end": 950.27, "confidence": 0.86450195, "punctuated_word": "Mike,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7165847 }, { "word": "wo", "start": 950.27, "end": 950.43, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "wo", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7165847 }, { "word": "du", "start": 950.43, "end": 950.59, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "Du", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7165847 }, { "word": "gerade", "start": 950.59, "end": 950.75, "confidence": 0.5263672, "punctuated_word": "gerade", "speaker": 0, 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Deswegen habt ihr auch gefragt, oder was heißt die Nummer? Genau, also wir haben da wirklich Ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich glaub, ich was stellt ihr euch denn vor? Was könnte denn sein? Ja. Das ist ja auch meistens dann in der letzten Viertelstunde noch 'n bisschen passiert. Aber es war trotzdem interessant. 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Also manche waren noch so, also wir überlegen das zu machen, wir wissen noch gar nicht genau, ob wir's machen und manche waren schon sehr weit fortgeschritten. Da hat man, das ist ja auch 'n Unterschied, wie viel man dann überhaupt noch Einfluss nehmen kann, ne, zu dem Genau. Zeitpunkt, ja. Also die Workshops sind ja auch alle letztes Jahr schon passiert. Das heißt, die Projekte sind jetzt im Nachhinein ja auch noch weiterentwickelt worden. Man meint, die sind jetzt fertig geworden und so. 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Das sind ja relativ klare Kriterien, die man beim nächsten Mal dann auch gleich wieder ansetzen kann, wenn man neues Projekt startet. Ja, dann geht's in 2 Stunden und nicht in 3 Stunden beim nächsten Mal. Na ja, wenn man am Anfang steht, haben wir vielleicht noch mehr Kriterien, die man diskutieren muss, könnt ich mir vorstellen.", "words": [ { "word": "energieeffizienz", "start": 1053.455, "end": 1053.615, "confidence": 0.99316406, "punctuated_word": "Energieeffizienz", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.7084209 }, { "word": "oder", "start": 1053.615, "end": 1053.775, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "oder", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.7084209 }, { "word": "wiederverwertbarkeit", "start": 1053.775, "end": 1054.275, "confidence": 0.96425784, "punctuated_word": "Wiederverwertbarkeit.", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.7084209 }, { "word": "das", "start": 1054.575, "end": 1054.735, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Das", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.7084209 }, { "word": "sind", "start": 1054.735, "end": 1054.895, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "sind", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.7084209 }, { "word": "ja", "start": 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Also ihr stellt 5 Beispiele im Detail vor. Es waren aber mehr Workshops wahrscheinlich, ne. Also das sind jetzt 5, die habt ihr euch rausgegriffen, weil man die einfach besonders spannend waren. Nee, das waren tatsächlich genau die 5, die wir auch gemacht haben. Okay, also das ist eure Versuchsanordnung. 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Ich hab das mal Genau. Also ich kann's jetzt nicht besser erklären. Du kannst es wahrscheinlich besser erklären, aber genau. Genau. So so kann man sich das vorstellen. 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Das heißt, jeder Interessierte kann sich dann anschauen und übern Dashboard diese Daten beobachten, analysieren, auswerten.", "words": [ { "word": "frei", "start": 1184.36, "end": 1184.6799, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "frei", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8709025 }, { "word": "zur", "start": 1184.6799, "end": 1184.9199, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "zur", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8709025 }, { "word": "verfügung", "start": 1184.9199, "end": 1185.32, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "Verfügung", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8709025 }, { "word": "gestellt", "start": 1185.32, "end": 1185.72, "confidence": 0.9885254, "punctuated_word": "gestellt.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8709025 }, { "word": "das", "start": 1185.72, "end": 1185.88, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "Das", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8709025 }, { "word": "heißt", "start": 1185.88, "end": 1186.2, "confidence": 0.98217773, "punctuated_word": "heißt,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8709025 }, { "word": "jeder", "start": 1186.2, "end": 1186.52, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "jeder", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8709025 }, { "word": "interessierte", "start": 1186.52, "end": 1186.9199, "confidence": 0.9995117, "punctuated_word": "Interessierte", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8709025 }, { "word": "kann", "start": 1186.9199, "end": 1187.08, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "kann", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8709025 }, { "word": "sich", "start": 1187.08, "end": 1187.24, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "sich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8709025 }, { "word": "dann", "start": 1187.24, "end": 1187.3999, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "dann", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8709025 }, { "word": "anschauen", "start": 1187.3999, "end": 1187.72, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "anschauen", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8709025 }, { "word": "und", "start": 1187.72, "end": 1187.88, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8194727 }, { "word": "übern", "start": 1187.88, "end": 1188.12, "confidence": 0.9633789, "punctuated_word": "übern", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8194727 }, { "word": "dashboard", "start": 1188.12, "end": 1188.52, "confidence": 0.9902344, "punctuated_word": "Dashboard", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8194727 }, { "word": "diese", "start": 1188.52, "end": 1188.84, "confidence": 0.9951172, "punctuated_word": "diese", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8194727 }, { "word": "daten", "start": 1188.84, "end": 1189.34, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "Daten", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8194727 }, { "word": "beobachten", "start": 1189.615, "end": 1189.855, "confidence": 0.9790039, "punctuated_word": "beobachten,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8194727 }, { "word": "analysieren", "start": 1189.855, "end": 1190.355, "confidence": 0.9975586, "punctuated_word": "analysieren,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8194727 }, { "word": "auswerten", "start": 1190.495, "end": 1190.995, "confidence": 0.9526367, "punctuated_word": "auswerten.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8194727 } ], "speaker": 1, "id": "fb0abb86-b9ef-4ae5-bb36-3dbf3ebcdffd" }, { "start": 1191.615, "end": 1196.4349, "confidence": 0.908488, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Wie's den Bienen geht. Kann man an diesen Indikatoren ableiten? Also zum Beispiel Genau. 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Ich weiß nicht genau, in welchem, weil das jetzt nicht mehr verfolgt hab, aber ich weiß auf jeden Fall, dass die Idee da war, das auf mehrere Bienenstücke auszuweiten und auch anderen Kommunen anzubieten und darüber dann halt mehr Daten zu sammeln, mehr Daten Ja. 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Das ist ja erst mal kein klassisches Nachhaltigkeitspreis. Nee, ist ja son richtig klassisches Digitalisierungsprojekt,", "words": [ { "word": "und", "start": 1526.8201, "end": 1527.3201, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8525401 }, { "word": "wie", "start": 1527.4601, "end": 1527.62, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "wie", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8525401 }, { "word": "du", "start": 1527.62, "end": 1527.8601, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "Du", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8525401 }, { "word": "schon", "start": 1527.8601, "end": 1528.02, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "schon", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8525401 }, { "word": "richtig", "start": 1528.02, "end": 1528.3401, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "richtig", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8525401 }, { "word": "gesagt", "start": 1528.3401, "end": 1528.66, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "gesagt", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8525401 }, { 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Im besten Fall, genau. Oder halt auch einfach nicht beachtet wird. Das kann natürlich auch sein, genau.", "words": [ { "word": "dran", "start": 1541.685, "end": 1542.0851, "confidence": 0.99316406, "punctuated_word": "dran", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.77929217 }, { "word": "ornamentiert", "start": 1542.0851, "end": 1542.5851, "confidence": 0.9938151, "punctuated_word": "ornamentiert", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.77929217 }, { "word": "wird", "start": 1542.725, "end": 1543.05, "confidence": 0.7602539, "punctuated_word": "wird,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.77929217 }, { "word": "im", "start": 1543.05, "end": 1543.2101, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "im", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.77929217 }, { "word": "besten", "start": 1543.2101, "end": 1543.4501, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "besten", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.77929217 }, { "word": "fall", "start": 1543.4501, "end": 1543.6901, "confidence": 0.9567871, "punctuated_word": "Fall.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.77929217 }, { "word": "im", "start": 1543.6901, "end": 1543.8501, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "Im", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.043531775 }, { "word": "besten", "start": 1543.8501, "end": 1544.0901, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "besten", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6142823 }, { "word": "fall", "start": 1544.0901, "end": 1544.3301, "confidence": 0.9272461, "punctuated_word": "Fall,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6142823 }, { "word": "genau", "start": 1544.3301, "end": 1544.65, "confidence": 0.9638672, "punctuated_word": "genau.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.6142823 }, { "word": "oder", "start": 1544.65, "end": 1544.81, "confidence": 0.9863281, "punctuated_word": "Oder", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.48021019 }, { "word": "halt", "start": 1544.81, "end": 1544.9701, "confidence": 0.9941406, "punctuated_word": "halt", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.48021019 }, { "word": "auch", "start": 1544.9701, "end": 1545.13, "confidence": 0.9902344, "punctuated_word": "auch", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.48021019 }, { "word": "einfach", "start": 1545.13, "end": 1545.29, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "einfach", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.48021019 }, { "word": "nicht", "start": 1545.29, "end": 1545.4501, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "nicht", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.48021019 }, { "word": "beachtet", "start": 1545.4501, "end": 1545.77, "confidence": 0.93603516, "punctuated_word": "beachtet", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.48021019 }, { "word": "wird", "start": 1545.77, "end": 1546.01, "confidence": 0.9343262, "punctuated_word": "wird.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.48021019 }, { "word": "das", "start": 1546.01, "end": 1546.17, "confidence": 0.7182617, "punctuated_word": "Das", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.5163289 }, { "word": "kann", "start": 1546.17, "end": 1546.41, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "kann", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.5163289 }, { "word": "natürlich", "start": 1546.41, "end": 1546.65, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "natürlich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.5163289 }, { "word": "auch", "start": 1546.65, "end": 1546.89, "confidence": 0.9902344, "punctuated_word": "auch", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.5163289 }, { "word": "sein", "start": 1546.89, "end": 1547.13, "confidence": 0.8400879, "punctuated_word": "sein,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.5163289 }, { "word": "genau", "start": 1547.13, "end": 1547.63, "confidence": 0.9975586, "punctuated_word": "genau.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.5163289 } ], "speaker": 1, "id": "5ca674b6-82d7-4be1-80dc-63feae92c4d0" }, { "start": 1548.01, "end": 1568.315, "confidence": 0.95808864, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Und aus diesem Grund haben wir das Projekt aufgenommen, mal da reinzuschauen, so zu schauen, ja, wird Nachhaltigkeit beachtet? Wenn ja, wie viel, wie viel auch vielleicht implizit. Also es kann ja auch sein, ne, dass wir dann merken, okay, wir haben jetzt hier diese krasse Nachhaltigkeitsbrille und gucken da drauf. Und die machen das aber schon, aber reden vielleicht auch gar nicht so sehr dadrüber. Das kann natürlich auch sein. Ja. Ornamentiert. Ich hab nur das Wort gelernt. Sehr schön.", "words": [ { "word": "und", "start": 1548.01, "end": 1548.51, "confidence": 0.99316406, "punctuated_word": "Und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88840175 }, { "word": "aus", "start": 1548.5701, "end": 1548.7301, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "aus", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88840175 }, { "word": "diesem", "start": 1548.7301, "end": 1548.9701, "confidence": 0.9951172, "punctuated_word": "diesem", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88840175 }, { "word": "grund", "start": 1548.9701, "end": 1549.05, "confidence": 0.9375, "punctuated_word": "Grund", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88840175 }, { "word": "haben", "start": 1549.05, "end": 1549.13, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "haben", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88840175 }, { "word": "wir", "start": 1549.13, "end": 1549.29, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "wir", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88840175 }, { "word": "das", "start": 1549.29, "end": 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Das war nicht der Punkt, sondern Wäre aber mal eine gute Idee. Aber kleiner Teaser, das ist ja dann in dem dritten Projekt, was wir besprechen, vielleicht noch mal interessant. Da geht's ja dann tatsächlich Bau, ne. Ne. Ja. Also eine Immobilie. 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Und es ist 'n abgeschlossenes Projekt. Also es hat offensichtlich funktioniert. Also die Menschen in diesem Landkreis können das jetzt machen. Ich glaube, ganz ganz Brandenburg müsste das jetzt zur Verfügung führen. 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Ja. Und jetzt mal konkret im Workshop. Also als ihr da gearbeitet habt mit der Canvas,", "words": [ { "word": "plattform", "start": 1632.2, "end": 1632.44, "confidence": 0.9892578, "punctuated_word": "Plattform", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.60213315 }, { "word": "verfügbar", "start": 1632.44, "end": 1632.9199, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "verfügbar,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.60213315 }, { "word": "wenn", "start": 1632.9199, "end": 1633.0, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "wenn", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.60213315 }, { "word": "ich", "start": 1633.0, "end": 1633.08, "confidence": 0.9951172, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.47481036 }, { "word": "das", "start": 1633.08, "end": 1633.24, "confidence": 0.8286133, "punctuated_word": "das", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.47481036 }, { "word": "richtig", "start": 1633.24, "end": 1633.48, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "richtig", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.47481036 }, { 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Mhm. 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Mhm. Okay, also die Gestaltungsfreiheit war nicht so groß. 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Haben kann. Also es es lässt sich schon drüber eskalieren, was man da rausbekommen hat. Als Drittes würde ich gerne über das Multilokal", "words": [ { "word": "was", "start": 1761.95, "end": 1762.11, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "was", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.89322436 }, { "word": "das", "start": 1762.11, "end": 1762.27, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "das", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.89322436 }, { "word": "für", "start": 1762.27, "end": 1762.4299, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "für", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.89322436 }, { "word": "die", "start": 1762.4299, "end": 1762.67, "confidence": 0.96972656, "punctuated_word": "die", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.89322436 }, { "word": "oder", "start": 1762.67, "end": 1762.99, "confidence": 0.9267578, "punctuated_word": "oder", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.89322436 }, { "word": "welche", "start": 1762.99, "end": 1763.39, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "welche", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.89322436 }, { "word": "wirkung", 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Das ist das, was Du schon angeteast hast. Das ist nämlich", "words": [ { "word": "stocksee", "start": 1772.715, "end": 1773.215, "confidence": 0.94677734, "punctuated_word": "Stocksee", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7804545 }, { "word": "sprechen", "start": 1773.355, "end": 1773.595, "confidence": 0.9211426, "punctuated_word": "sprechen.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7804545 }, { "word": "das", "start": 1773.595, "end": 1773.755, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "Das", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7804545 }, { "word": "ist", "start": 1773.755, "end": 1773.9149, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ist", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7804545 }, { "word": "das", "start": 1773.9149, "end": 1773.995, "confidence": 0.9902344, "punctuated_word": "das,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "was", "start": 1773.995, "end": 1774.1549, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "was", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "du", "start": 1774.1549, "end": 1774.315, "confidence": 0.9760742, "punctuated_word": "Du", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "schon", "start": 1774.315, "end": 1774.5549, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "schon", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "angeteast", "start": 1774.5549, "end": 1775.0549, "confidence": 0.98795575, "punctuated_word": "angeteast", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "hast", "start": 1775.195, "end": 1775.4349, "confidence": 0.8125, "punctuated_word": "hast.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "das", "start": 1775.4349, "end": 1775.595, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Das", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "ist", "start": 1775.595, "end": 1775.9149, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ist", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "nämlich", "start": 1775.9149, "end": 1776.4149, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "nämlich", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 } ], "speaker": 0, "id": "a8e0a8d5-3f9f-4f63-9e00-eab5620e4d3d" }, { "start": 1776.875, "end": 1778.095, "confidence": 0.98376465, "channel": 0, "transcript": "eigentlich weder 'n Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt", "words": [ { "word": "eigentlich", "start": 1776.875, "end": 1777.195, "confidence": 0.9453125, "punctuated_word": "eigentlich", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "weder", "start": 1777.195, "end": 1777.4349, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "weder", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "'n", "start": 1777.4349, "end": 1777.595, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "'n", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "nachhaltigkeitsprojekt", "start": 1777.595, "end": 1778.095, "confidence": 0.99560547, "punctuated_word": "Nachhaltigkeitsprojekt", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 } ], "speaker": 0, "id": "9d1a5a64-e7c2-4d34-bd90-897a53368e76" }, { "start": 1778.475, "end": 1780.8949, "confidence": 0.95076495, "channel": 0, "transcript": "noch 'n Digitalprojekt, muss man sagen. Das ist 'n Bauprojekt.", "words": [ { "word": "noch", "start": 1778.475, "end": 1778.635, "confidence": 0.7763672, "punctuated_word": "noch", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "'n", "start": 1778.635, "end": 1778.7949, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "'n", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "digitalprojekt", "start": 1778.7949, "end": 1779.2949, "confidence": 0.9593099, "punctuated_word": "Digitalprojekt,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "muss", "start": 1779.355, "end": 1779.5149, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "muss", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "man", "start": 1779.5149, "end": 1779.6749, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "man", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "sagen", "start": 1779.6749, "end": 1779.9149, "confidence": 0.7763672, "punctuated_word": "sagen.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "das", "start": 1779.9149, "end": 1780.075, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Das", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "ist", "start": 1780.075, "end": 1780.235, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ist", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "'n", "start": 1780.235, "end": 1780.3949, "confidence": 0.99853516, "punctuated_word": "'n", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "bauprojekt", "start": 1780.3949, "end": 1780.8949, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "Bauprojekt.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 } ], "speaker": 0, "id": "71e4ab3b-5cec-4832-be3b-d2ac641e3c6a" }, { "start": 1781.4349, "end": 1791.23, "confidence": 0.98069715, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Wie habt ihr denn den Canvas da nutzen können? Genau, das war ein kleines Experiment, würd ich mal sagen, weil wir uns gefragt haben, diese Kriterien, die wir da aufgestellt haben,", "words": [ { "word": "wie", "start": 1781.4349, "end": 1781.755, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Wie", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "habt", "start": 1781.755, "end": 1781.995, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "habt", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "ihr", "start": 1781.995, "end": 1782.235, "confidence": 0.9873047, "punctuated_word": "ihr", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "denn", "start": 1782.235, "end": 1782.735, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "denn", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "den", "start": 1782.955, "end": 1783.195, "confidence": 0.9951172, "punctuated_word": "den", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 1.0 }, { "word": "canvas", "start": 1783.195, "end": 1783.595, "confidence": 0.90356445, "punctuated_word": "Canvas", "speaker": 0, 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Oder lassen sie sich vielleicht auf ganz klassische Kommunalprojekte auch anwenden, was halt in dem Fall jetzt", "words": [ { "word": "lassen", "start": 1791.61, "end": 1791.85, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "lassen", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8413959 }, { "word": "sie", "start": 1791.85, "end": 1792.01, "confidence": 0.57177734, "punctuated_word": "sie", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8413959 }, { "word": "sich", "start": 1792.01, "end": 1792.25, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "sich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8413959 }, { "word": "eigentlich", "start": 1792.25, "end": 1792.57, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "eigentlich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8413959 }, { "word": "nur", "start": 1792.57, "end": 1792.8099, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "nur", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8413959 }, { "word": "auf", "start": 1792.8099, "end": 1793.21, "confidence": 0.5942383, "punctuated_word": "auf", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8413959 }, { "word": "digitalprojekte", "start": 1793.21, "end": 1793.71, "confidence": 0.9975586, "punctuated_word": "Digitalprojekte", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8413959 }, { "word": "anwenden", "start": 1793.9299, "end": 1794.4099, "confidence": 0.8786621, "punctuated_word": "anwenden?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8413959 }, { "word": "oder", "start": 1794.4099, "end": 1794.73, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Oder", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8413959 }, { "word": "lassen", "start": 1794.73, "end": 1794.97, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "lassen", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8413959 }, { "word": "sie", "start": 1794.97, "end": 1795.13, "confidence": 0.9589844, "punctuated_word": "sie", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.8413959 }, { "word": "sich", "start": 1795.13, "end": 1795.21, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "sich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.848325 }, { "word": "vielleicht", "start": 1795.21, "end": 1795.45, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "vielleicht", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.848325 }, { "word": "auf", "start": 1795.45, "end": 1795.69, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "auf", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.848325 }, { "word": "ganz", "start": 1795.69, "end": 1796.1699, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ganz", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.848325 }, { "word": "klassische", "start": 1796.1699, "end": 1796.57, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "klassische", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.848325 }, { "word": "kommunalprojekte", "start": 1796.57, "end": 1797.07, "confidence": 0.99658203, "punctuated_word": "Kommunalprojekte", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.848325 }, { "word": "auch", "start": 1797.2899, "end": 1797.45, "confidence": 0.9951172, "punctuated_word": "auch", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.848325 }, { "word": "anwenden", "start": 1797.45, "end": 1797.77, "confidence": 0.9116211, "punctuated_word": "anwenden,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.848325 }, { "word": "was", "start": 1797.77, "end": 1798.01, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "was", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.848325 }, { "word": "halt", "start": 1798.01, "end": 1798.33, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "halt", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.848325 }, { "word": "in", "start": 1798.33, "end": 1798.49, "confidence": 0.97509766, "punctuated_word": "in", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.848325 }, { "word": "dem", "start": 1798.49, "end": 1798.65, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "dem", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.848325 }, { "word": "fall", "start": 1798.65, "end": 1798.89, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "Fall", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.848325 }, { "word": "jetzt", "start": 1798.89, "end": 1799.115, "confidence": 0.9941406, "punctuated_word": "jetzt", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.848325 } ], "speaker": 1, "id": "42792bf4-34c4-4d8d-a59e-831e2408c1b2" }, { "start": 1801.675, "end": 1822.61, "confidence": 0.95741194, "channel": 0, "transcript": "hier die Renovierung und den Ausbau 1 Immobilie in kommunaler Hand ist. Okay, also dieses Multilokal, einfach damit man sich das mal vorstellen kann, da soll einfach 'n neuer Ort in 'nem ländlichen Raum, nehm ich mal an, etabliert werden. Genau, also es gibt es gibt diese Immobilie, also vor allem, das auch noch mal wichtig zu erwähnen, das Projekt befindet sich in Planung, also da ist noch nichts passiert, da ist momentan gerade die Ideenfindung.", "words": [ { "word": "hier", "start": 1801.675, "end": 1801.755, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "hier", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.34826326 }, { "word": "die", "start": 1801.755, "end": 1801.835, "confidence": 0.98828125, "punctuated_word": "die", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.34826326 }, { "word": "renovierung", "start": 1801.835, "end": 1801.915, "confidence": 0.98095703, "punctuated_word": "Renovierung", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.34826326 }, { "word": "und", "start": 1801.915, "end": 1801.995, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.34826326 }, { "word": "den", "start": 1801.995, "end": 1802.075, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "den", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 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Also ist ja irgendwo spielt immer digital mit rein und man könnte sich natürlich diese Digitalaspekte rauspicken und die jetzt betrachten.", "words": [ { "word": "schon", "start": 1953.505, "end": 1954.005, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "schon", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.85296303 }, { "word": "selten", "start": 1954.065, "end": 1954.565, "confidence": 0.8535156, "punctuated_word": "selten", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.85296303 }, { "word": "würde", "start": 1954.705, "end": 1954.865, "confidence": 0.38964844, "punctuated_word": "würde", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.85296303 }, { "word": "ich", "start": 1954.865, "end": 1955.105, "confidence": 0.9819336, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.35474086 }, { "word": "mal", "start": 1955.105, "end": 1955.345, "confidence": 0.7841797, "punctuated_word": "mal", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.35474086 }, { "word": "vermuten", "start": 1955.345, "end": 1955.745, "confidence": 0.9873047, "punctuated_word": "vermuten.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.35474086 }, { "word": "also", "start": 1955.745, "end": 1955.9049, "confidence": 0.99316406, "punctuated_word": "Also", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.71868914 }, { "word": "ist", "start": 1955.9049, "end": 1956.065, "confidence": 0.8803711, "punctuated_word": "ist", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.71868914 }, { "word": "ja", "start": 1956.065, "end": 1956.225, "confidence": 0.94921875, "punctuated_word": "ja", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.71868914 }, { "word": "irgendwo", "start": 1956.225, "end": 1956.465, "confidence": 0.90283203, "punctuated_word": "irgendwo", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.71868914 }, { "word": "spielt", "start": 1956.465, "end": 1956.705, "confidence": 0.90722656, "punctuated_word": "spielt", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.71868914 }, { "word": "immer", "start": 1956.705, "end": 1957.0249, "confidence": 0.9819336, "punctuated_word": "immer", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.71868914 }, { "word": "digital", "start": 1957.0249, "end": 1957.2649, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "digital", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.71868914 }, { "word": "mit", "start": 1957.2649, "end": 1957.4249, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "mit", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.71868914 }, { "word": "rein", "start": 1957.4249, "end": 1957.585, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "rein", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.71868914 }, { "word": "und", "start": 1957.585, "end": 1957.6649, "confidence": 0.6948242, "punctuated_word": "und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88721585 }, { "word": "man", "start": 1957.6649, "end": 1957.825, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "man", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88721585 }, { "word": "könnte", "start": 1957.825, "end": 1958.065, "confidence": 0.9951172, "punctuated_word": "könnte", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88721585 }, { "word": "sich", "start": 1958.065, "end": 1958.3049, "confidence": 0.87060547, "punctuated_word": "sich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88721585 }, { "word": "natürlich", "start": 1958.3049, "end": 1958.5449, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "natürlich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88721585 }, { "word": "diese", "start": 1958.5449, "end": 1958.865, "confidence": 0.921875, "punctuated_word": "diese", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88721585 }, { "word": "digitalaspekte", "start": 1958.865, "end": 1959.365, "confidence": 0.9597168, "punctuated_word": "Digitalaspekte", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88721585 }, { "word": "rauspicken", "start": 1959.585, "end": 1960.085, "confidence": 0.99869794, "punctuated_word": "rauspicken", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88721585 }, { "word": "und", "start": 1960.1449, "end": 1960.47, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88721585 }, { "word": "die", "start": 1960.47, "end": 1960.63, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "die", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88721585 }, { "word": "jetzt", "start": 1960.63, "end": 1960.87, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "jetzt", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88721585 }, { "word": "betrachten", "start": 1960.87, "end": 1961.37, "confidence": 0.94750977, "punctuated_word": "betrachten.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.88721585 } ], "speaker": 1, "id": "a8f3b39c-caf4-4b7a-a985-bc62edc4e0f4" }, { "start": 1961.99, "end": 1971.0499, "confidence": 0.9882962, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Aber wir haben jetzt halt vor allem auf die Immobilie schauen wollen. 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Also wenn ich wirtschaftliche Nachhaltigkeitskriterien", "words": [ { "word": "mit", "start": 2075.95, "end": 2076.19, "confidence": 0.9951172, "punctuated_word": "mit", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.9480814 }, { "word": "sich", "start": 2076.19, "end": 2076.3499, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "sich", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.9480814 }, { "word": "bringt", "start": 2076.3499, "end": 2076.67, "confidence": 0.9951172, "punctuated_word": "bringt.", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.9480814 }, { "word": "also", "start": 2076.67, "end": 2076.83, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Also", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.9480814 }, { "word": "wenn", "start": 2076.83, "end": 2076.99, "confidence": 0.921875, "punctuated_word": "wenn", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.9480814 }, { "word": "ich", "start": 2076.99, "end": 2077.07, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.9480814 }, { "word": "wirtschaftliche", "start": 2077.07, "end": 2077.55, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "wirtschaftliche", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.9480814 }, { "word": "nachhaltigkeitskriterien", "start": 2077.55, "end": 2078.05, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "Nachhaltigkeitskriterien", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.9480814 } ], "speaker": 2, "id": "c8efe98b-8033-4f8f-9b5e-e0a4a59b5bd3" }, { "start": 2078.51, "end": 2086.05, "confidence": 0.90100986, "channel": 0, "transcript": "erfülle, dann steht das Projekt normalerweise aus solideren Füßen. Ist grade bei fürn an schwachen Kommunen natürlich ganz besonders wichtig. Ja. 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{ "start": 2103.26, "end": 2104.6401, "confidence": 0.97491455, "channel": 0, "transcript": "in der aktuellen Veröffentlichung.", "words": [ { "word": "in", "start": 2103.26, "end": 2103.5, "confidence": 0.91015625, "punctuated_word": "in", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7944853 }, { "word": "der", "start": 2103.5, "end": 2103.74, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "der", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7944853 }, { "word": "aktuellen", "start": 2103.74, "end": 2104.1401, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "aktuellen", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7944853 }, { "word": "veröffentlichung", "start": 2104.1401, "end": 2104.6401, "confidence": 0.98950195, "punctuated_word": "Veröffentlichung.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.7944853 } ], "speaker": 0, "id": "f7f0e1e9-f285-46c1-8e8d-2ecb6c65a87a" }, { "start": 2105.34, "end": 2112.72, "confidence": 0.9678451, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Ihr seid sozusagen zurückgekehrt zum Papierformat, also ihr habt mit 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Also wir wir zeigen diese Beispiele. 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Die sind das auf jeden Fall schon viel sinnvoller. Aber man kann das ja noch weiter runterbrechen, ne. 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Mhm. Okay. 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