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We get into it with a series of experts from the public and private sectors on where this is all going and how local government might adopt drone technology to improve services and life for residents. My name is Ben Brown and this is Municipal Equation from the North Carolina League of Municipalities, episode 13. If you want to go down an Internet rabbit hole, go to YouTube and do a search for drone. I did that a few days ago and got 12,400,000 results. That's 12,400,000 videos somehow related to drones. There's one that's gotten 11,700,000 views titled drone used to catch cheating wife, which actually wasn't very fun to watch and I don't advise you look it up. There's one at 3,600,000 views titled drone fails, which for six and a half minutes is pretty much just a montage of crashes and other mishaps. That's a little more entertaining. A lot of drones are outfitted with cameras, so I typed in the phrase cool drone footage just to see what will come up and got about a 167,000 videos of drones capturing high quality spectacular footage like aerial shots of fireworks or cityscapes or tropical islands or volcanoes or running herds of animals. I found a hypnotic drone video of blue whales. Here's audio from a video of a drone hovering over a bighorn sheep as in the animal with bighorns. And here's the sheep actually head butting it to the ground. Uh-huh. What was this? Inevitably, I ran into laughably fake drone footage of flying saucers. Then I found a video advertising a drone that looks like a flying saucer, which I think might have been fake too. So yeah, a rabbit hole. For a good while now at the League of Municipalities, the phones have been ringing and the inboxes have been filling up with questions about drones in the context of local government, about how police departments should deal with drones and how to answer questions from residents about drones, and about how local governments themselves can use drones. As the rabbit hole indicated, there are plenty of applications for drones to be used. Imagine how quickly, for instance, a fire department could gauge the scope of an emergency by flying a drone out to the site of a 911 call or how much quicker a tax office could assess the value of a property or a planning department surveying a development site or a city examining the extent of damage after a natural disaster. And you might say, well, come on. We can already do that with helicopters or Cessnas. But think of the potential difference in cost like with fuel and the fact that drones are operated by remote. The conversation keeps growing and so do the questions. So just recently, Let's head Let's head out to the coast of North Carolina. The Outer Banks where you'll find the town of Manteo spelled M A N T E O where about 1,400 people live. Manteo is probably best known as one of the residences of Andy Griffith. It's also known as having one of the very few local governments in North Carolina that operates its own drone. The town of Manio currently uses a DJI Phantom three Professional. This is Steve Josik. He's the town's IT specialist, and he flies the drone. There wasn't really any precedent for a town, operating a drone, and actually we were having issues finding support networks, other towns that that had similar ambitions. We were hoping not to be a pioneer, in the field, since we are so small and have limited staff, but we called around and and, spoke to a couple of municipalities, in Utah and Texas, that had used drones. So what'd you plan to use it for? We are part of a government access channel, and so we had a lot of uses that we wanted, kind of varied uses that we wanted, to use the the drone for. We had special events, traffic issues, public works projects. Recently, hurricane Matthew put a lot of North Carolina and parts of neighboring states underwater. Joseph said drones have really changed how quickly and accurately authorities can document damage, and that was the case in Manio. Previously, we were only able to assess damage that we could see driving down through our streets. And Pirates Cove is out on a peninsula, so it's relatively low cost for us to get out and fly and survey damage that we wouldn't be able to see it any other way. And before I get yelled at, I have to point out that people I've talked with in the industry prefer to say unmanned aerial systems or unmanned aerial vehicles, abbreviated as UAS or UAV. So when you hear that in this episode, you'll know they're talking about drones. Just to explain that part a little bit more, here's Ted Linsley. He's the CEO of a company in the UAS industry called Oliris, who is one of the panelists at the recent forum. What's happening right now in the industry is, we're in a transitional stage. So drones for example. That term comes from, like, 1930. It's a, an unmanned aircraft with no intelligence that was designed to be an artillery target and nothing more. So that moniker stuck with the technology. The term unmanned aerial system, UAS or UAV, most people don't know this, but that comes these these were developed from the hobby industry where, hobbyists said, hey. We could use these for commercial applications. I do have some cool ideas for them. And they said, you know what? If we don't call it an aircraft, it's exempt from FAA regulation. We can do whatever we want. So we're gonna call it an unmanned aerial vehicle, unmanned aerial system. And so So that's some background. And things have changed in terms of regulation, and we'll get to that in a bit. But from Linsley's private sector perspective, the conversation about drones and government should focus less on new rules and regulations and more on the possibility. Sites and the standard that we're setting is that, we'll fly in the same manner the helicopter does. So if you have city regulations or county regulations that control what you can and can do with a helicopter, simply put those over in the UAV box, and that'll cover about 90% of your history. The rest of it will get sorted out very quickly. Insurance carriers will decide who they'll underwrite and who they want. If you can't get insurance, you can't operate commercially. If you can't operate safely, not only can you not get insured, but you won't be able to get a permit from a city or county or state authority to be able to do what you wanna do. So, really, I I think we're we're putting too much emphasis on that part. We should just focus on, creating ways to let new companies build this technology, and then you decide how you wanna embrace it. Lindsley acknowledges that that might not be the most popular perspective to to people who work in local government. Questions, concerns, and what ifs to many people mean that maybe we should explore more rules. Well, this year, the Federal Aviation Administration put into effect a series of regulations on the operation of drones. When these rules came out, the National League of Cities put out an in-depth report called cities and drones on what they mean for cities and towns, use, regulation, what have you. Nicole du Puis was an author of that report. She's with the NLC. You'll recall that we spoke with her in our episode about local infrastructure. She's back to tell us about the FAA rules for drones. I can't say exactly when the first city, looked at a drone and said, oh, maybe this is more than just a toy or or something that we thought of it, in in past years. But the origin of this report is really that NLC recognized that drones are becoming more mainstream as a technology and also more relevant to cities, both in both in terms of the possibilities looming for cities using drones, as well as the challenges inherent for cities when they need to legislate on drone operation, whether that operation be commercial or personal or used by hobbyists or public. So we recognize this need amongst our members. We heard it from a lot of them, for guidance, especially as it relates to the, I guess, it's semi new FAA rule on drone usage. And this really is sort of the Wild West for cities and that it's so new and that's kind of our job. Our job is to help local governments and policymakers address some of these new technological innovations. So we saw a real need in terms of the challenges and opportunities posed by drones, drone usage, and where it fits into existing regulatory context. Before we move on from the various applications of drones in local government, here's Dupuy giving us a few more examples, just in case you're curious. Certainly, we've we've heard of them being used in in the context of law enforcement and firefighting and maybe as rural ambulances. You know, oftentimes, cities will use them to, look for, criminal suspects if there's somebody on the run. We've heard of them use this as firefighting mechanism, and then as as ambulance services in in remote and rural areas as well. Cities also, have have started thinking about using drones for inspections and environmental monitoring and disaster management. In February 2015, the city of Somerville, Massachusetts hired an aerial cinematography and multimedia company to actually survey their municipal buildings for excessive snow build up. So, they realized that it would be quicker and probably cheaper than sending out in person, you know, person inspectors. And then finally, we we have seen, commercial or drones used for precision farming, and aerial photography. And in the near future, I think we've all heard about, you know, probably Amazon package delivery. So using drones to spray and treat crops could definitely save time and money, result in more precision application of pesticides or other chemicals. And then, more than half of the, 100 or 1,000, excuse me, commercial exemptions granted by the FAA, initially, for drones were for aerial photography. So this is really becoming an important tool for a variety of industries, not just cities, but, you know, on the commercial side, particularly real estate. And then, of course, I I mentioned already online retailers, not just Amazon, but also Walmart, Google, and Alibaba are developing drone delivery systems as well. So we can expect that, I think, probably fairly soon to to kind of be a big, blip on the radar of this discussion. So it's not brand new, but it's still kind of a new frontier. Do we do we know roughly how many local governments right now are operating drones? We don't, unfortunately. We know that in 2015, however, the world sales of drones hit approximately 4,300,000. And and by the January 2016, over 325,000 of those drones had been registered with the FAA, and that was the highest number the FAA had ever seen. So the FAA expects 2,500,000 drones will be sold domestically in 2016, and there's been a lot of speculation that they will be a pretty hot item under a lot of Christmas trees this year. So while several cities are are currently experimenting, with various ways in which drones can be used, fewer have, really delineated how public officials can use drones. A good bit of the city legislation passed on drones to this point has been passed to regulate recreational use of drones. So kind of more of like your hobbyist, you know, citizens who are interested in in aviation, and wanna fly their their recreational drones around. So, unfortunately, the answer is that we don't really know at this point how many cities have purchased drones for municipal use, but this is something we're hoping to do research on in the near future, in one of our future surveys with city officials. Now the the operation of drones sometimes comes with worry. You know, government operation, especially, I think, can kinda worry people about misuse, mishaps. The word surveillance comes into it from time to time. You know, you can find videos on YouTube of people accidentally crashing drones, and that's maybe mostly hobbyists or private professionals, but there's, you know, the privacy concern too. So in the government sphere, excluding military use, what's the track record like for using drones appropriately? Yeah. Well, I mean, to your point, drones really do present a challenge for cities. They raise safety and privacy and nuisance and trespassing concerns, all of which are compounded by this lack of accountability associated with most drone operations. The fact that people can fly them, and you can't necessarily always, connect the operator with the device. So, you know, like you mentioned, the safety issues, for example, are when operators fly their drones over people or near airplanes, aircraft. City residents often have privacy concerns with any small device that's kind of hovering nearby that could potentially be taking photos or collecting data on them. And frankly, cities need to address any circumstance in which, a municipally owned drone might be taking video or collecting information about their citizens. That is one of those very, challenging sticky problems that that cities need to address before they deploy any kind of public drone fleet. Drones, also, I mentioned, can be operated remotely, so it makes it difficult to identify who's flying if there is, unfortunately, an accident that causes injury to persons or property. And and these are some of the most commonly cited challenges. Cities need to, think about how to address them. And from what we've seen so far, the FAA's rule really left some opportunity for them to take an assessment of their own communities and figure out the best legislative solution. And these have been the kind of crux of of the legislative solutions that are being put forth. So, a lot of focus on safety, making sure that their citizens are safe and out of harm's way if drones are in operation in the community, and also the preservation of public space. We've seen a lot of ordinances that have focused on, you know, maybe a park that, city officials don't necessarily want to be inundated with drones or perhaps a mega event where there's gonna be 50,000 people in one place. And the idea of drones flying overhead seems a little bit risky. So, really, those are kind of the two big issues that we've seen kinda come up. Now NLC is always, in favor of local control over these issues. That is kind of what we what we what we push for. That being said, we do encourage our members not just to ban drones outright, to be really thoughtful about how they act toward new technology technologies and technological innovations like drones. So rather than, you know, just ban something outright because it's scary and new and we don't really know what it looks like, we encourage our members to carefully consider how drone technology might serve them and how it might work most effectively in their communities. So there's always that balance that local policymakers have to strike in terms of embracing innovation while keeping their cities safe and efficient. Right. Right. And on the topic of regulation, you mentioned the FAA rules. Could you maybe nutshell what it's all about? You know, why did the FAA rule come about? You know, what's what's here now that wasn't there before in terms of regulation? What what's that all about? Sure. So the FAA, put forth a rule that treats all drones as aircraft and subjects them to federal aviation regulation. Federal law, they've created four primary categories of unmanned aerial vehicles or or UAVs, remote pilots holding a part 107 certificate, public UAS or UAV operators, model aircraft operators, and then those holding three three three exemptions. So the majority of operators in this case are likely going to apply for and attain what's called a part one zero seven certificate, which will allow them to operate both recreationally and commercially. Model aircraft operators will have to meet somewhat stricter requirements and be ruled by a set of kind of national and community guidelines that have been established for many years, for their rep recreational operations. And then public operators have the choice to either apply for what's called a certificate of authorization, COA, from the FAA delineating the operational use of the drone, or they can opt for also a part 107 certificate. Really the FAA in our reading left large swaths of regulatory territory up to the local and state authorities. They really didn't establish much more than guidelines for safe operation and kind of a minimum threshold for what they would investigate if an accident did occur. So it it really felt like there was a there was a lot of gray area in the rule, that cities could come in and regulate, on this issue in a way that makes sense for their community. So if I work for a city government and I see an application for a drone in my line of work, say, you know, I I work in a city planning office or the tax office or law enforcement, What would I need to do in terms of fulfilling the requirements or licensing to be able to operate a drone? You you mentioned the COA. Yeah. How stringent is all of this? Well, yeah, like I said, first and foremost, I'll I'll just reinforce the idea that, cities do need to adhere to the FAA rule. So they would need to apply for either that COA or that part 107 certificate to make sure that, they were complying with the FAA's rulemaking. But there are also, state laws to contend with and to consider. Much of the legislation that has been passed in this area has been at the state level. Over one third, of all states now have laws governing how public agencies can use drones. Several states out loan use, of drones by law enforcement and require probable cause and warrants before drones can be used, often with some exceptions. But cities really need to think about that as well. In addition to complying with the FAA's regulation, also being aware of any state regulations that might exist. So there are, you know, there are as with so many technological innovations, there are a lot of moving parts that I think city officials need to be aware of. And and if I had to if I had to, break it down to kind of the three considerations, it would be the FAA's rulemaking, making sure you're complying with that, making sure you're complying with any state legislation or state law, and then, figuring out how it best works for your particular community. So drone is kind of a generic term. You know, I I've seen drones that measure several feet across, and then I've seen drones that are the size of a a dinner plate or a phonographic record or even smaller. Is there you know, what what sets them apart legally? Is is there a distinction from them and from, say, a a remote controlled airplane or one of those small drones that we might see under a Christmas tree? Sure. So in in recent years, I think when people heard the word drone, it probably referred to an unmanned aircraft in a military context overseas. So military drones can have wingspans of well over a 100 feet, and they can weigh, anywhere from, you know, six around 16 tons. Today, most of the drones that we're talking about or that we're seeing, discussed in headlines domestically are these small model quadcopters or kind of helicopters with four propellers with cameras attached to them. Many of the highly rated consumer drones also have high high definition cameras, might weigh about 10 pounds and have flight times of around twenty minutes. So as of December 2015, all drones that weigh over half a pound, not the kind that, you know, you might see a young child playing with, that will be flown outside have to be registered with the FAA before they can be flown. So that's the distinction they're making, that weight of over a half pound. And the FAA hopes that this new registration requirement will not only provide more accountability for all drone users regardless of what category they they might fall into, but will also serve as a kind of conduit to help educate individuals who maybe are not familiar with some of the national regulations and safety practices, or maybe have no prior flying experience. They're not familiar with model aircraft regulations. So, I think that's why they they passed what some might see as as such a stringent rule for for registration. You mentioned the number of new drones that we're gonna be seeing, and some local governments are probably, you know, making you know, maybe police agencies are wondering how they deal with these drones that are maybe being operated in a a reckless or a nuisance way. And and how is that being handled? Well, like I said, there's a lot of gray area in the FAA ordinance that allows cities to regulate drones in a way that they say you see fit so to protect communities. But also maybe promote innovation and kind of embrace this this exciting new technology. City should focus on two things. First, using land use and zoning powers to designate when and where drones can take off land operate as well as any operational limit limitations or criteria. So this is this is not a new power. Cities have always had kind of this land use power at their disposal. And I think the distinction here is even though the FAA regulates airspace, these are still taking off from a particular place that is located in a city. So that's kind of the nuance there with with the land use and zoning powers. The second thing they should focus on is creating ordinances that punish operators for operating UAVs in a in a wreck in a reckless way that might endanger persons or property. And they, like you mentioned, need to also consider appropriate enforcement infrastructure. So I think a lot of the enforcement for these types of things is going to come down to local law enforcement. And, you know, that is a challenge for some local law enforcement agencies that might feel already overburdened with things that, were not traditionally in their purview. But they're really the only, as far as we can see, suitable, body to to regulate and enforce these rules. So a lot of cities have kind of done that, and, have tried to establish, more than guidelines for for safe operation and a minimum threshold, for investigations into accidents. Like I said, the the bulk of the legislating on this will will really fall to local and state authorities. Okay. So so you really have to kind of think about what you wanna use it for. There and and there are some systems out there that can give you enough flexibility, to where you can go do search and rescue. You can do your narcotics stuff. You can do, rapid response, to an emergency. You could you could, you know, drop a cell phone to somebody that's in a hot, you know, hostage situation and you wanna talk to them. Or, you know, a med kit to, SWAT, member that that got injured and you wanna drop them a blowout kit. There's all kinds of things like that that you can do. That was Chris Gibson. He's the UAS program manager for the North Carolina Department of Transportation. That was at the league's recent forum on drones when he was prompted to talk more about applications. Inevitably, the question of privacy came up. Representative John Torbett, a member of the North Carolina General Assembly who has a long history with UAS technology and has helped with state legislation related to it, put the question of privacy to a lawyer on the panel named Steven Hartsell. By the way, if Torbit's voice sounds familiar, he was also on the episode with Nicole DuPuy about infrastructure. Anyway, here's Torbit and then you'll hear from Steven Hartzell. Steven, privacy is always gonna be a concern of the public. I can attest to that working with the legislation that was put into place. That was the number one concern that we heard from the general citizen. But a proxy is always gonna be a concern of the public when discussing UAS or drone activities. What role will cities likely play in protecting reasonable expectations of privacy against widespread drone visibility in neighborhoods, shopping centers, parks, etcetera? And just a heads up, Hartzell is really detailed in his answer. I'm gonna play the whole thing unedited. So privacy is one of these issues that I think is gonna keep on coming up. When we were putting this panel together, one of my co panelists sitting up at this table said, man, are we really still talking about privacy and drones? I mean, haven't we gotten past that? And the short answer is no. And part of the reason is, there's been public perception over the last few to several years as drones have really come into public consciousness that, the drones can be used and are being used for certain nefarious purposes to invade people's privacy. And the example that's always given is somebody sunbathing in the backyard, somebody's daughter sunbathing. And the truth of the matter is that there some of that perception is, maybe faulty and maybe faulty and maybe a little bit, unnecessary, but I think there are also very legitimate privacy concerns. And one of the things that wigs people out is when we get new technology that we haven't had before, that's mobile technology, and that perhaps can even be used in a manner that is surreptitious, that causes people legitimate concern. And you think back to cell phones fifteen years ago when people put when companies put cameras in cell phones, and the first question was, what are we gonna do with that camera? Because we're really concerned it's a mobile small device. Now here we are sixteen years later, and at least two major cell phone manufacturers market their phones on the basis of how good their camera is. So in that fifteen year period, we've become accustomed to these devices, and I think that over time, the public will become more accustomed to, to drones, and the privacy concerns, I think, will diminish some. So what does that really mean though for for local governments in terms of regulating in that area? And my view and our firm represents both commercial enterprises and also represents some local governments in various matters. And so my view of that issue for local governments is we need to be really, really careful and deliberate about thinking whether or not we really need to regulate in the area of privacy. As representative Torbett mentioned, there's already a state law that governs many aspects of privacy that is very drone specific. In addition, there's a bunch of other state law claims that can be brought against any kind of technology that abates privacy, whether it's a criminal keeping Tom statue or whether it's, cyber stalking. There are these other mechanisms that are already in place that are largely technologically neutral. And I think that sometimes when you take, take laws and ordinances and you target them at a specific technology, I think it can have unintended consequences. So I'd be careful at the local level about about considering passing and adopting ordinances that relate to privacy, as it as it impacts UAS operations. Now that that sort of puts aside the issue, and, of course, again, to representative Torpitt's credit, the the state statute also talks a great deal about, what law enforcement can do, and that's sort of a separate issue. There's fourth amendment concerns with any sort of government, use of of surveillance equipment. But again, from a technologically neutral standpoint, those are important issues, and we should be careful about, pulling out drones and targeting them specifically. The other thing that I wanna mention about that is, in North Carolina, and North Carolina is not unique in this regard, there's an interesting preemption wrinkle that occurs with privacy. So any local government that is looking at privacy issues or any other type of regulation that, feds is left for feds is left for the states to regulate. At the state level, and again, North Carolina is not unique in this regard, North Carolina, the constitution established that the general assembly would create political subdivisions such as municipalities and counties, and the appellate courts in North Carolina have consistently said that those political subdivisions only have the authority that is given to them by the general assembly. They don't they don't get the residual authority like states do vis a vis the the federal government. So there's also a potential issue for any local government that wants to regulate privacy and drones because we already have a state statute that's on point. And then the final thing I'll say is think about how difficult it would be as well as a practical matter for folks to know and understand what all the various privacy regulations are if we have an ordinance by ordinance basis from community to community. I live in Chapel Hill. I live in, actually, in Carrboro. I have a Chapel Hill address. Where Chapel Hill begins, Carrboro ends, I couldn't tell you. But if those two, local governments were to adopt privacy ordinances that were conflicting or inconsistent, it would be really difficult as a practical matter for folks to understand and be able to abide by them. So my counsel would be, let's let's sort of pull back the reins on any local privacy regulation. Without a doubt, there are a thousand other burning questions that you have that we probably haven't answered in this episode. And, frankly, it would take hours and hours of talk to even crack the surface. The forum that you've been hearing samples from was nearly three hours long, and it could have easily gone the entire day. It covered a lot, and I'll post a link to the entire thing, a video, in the show notes at sound cloud dot com slash municipal equation. But before we go, Nicole, where do you see this all headed? You know, it it's kind of a theme in local government to envision the year 2030 and wonder where we'll be. This might be a big dreamy question, but, you know, where do you see drones headed? Well, I wish I had a crystal ball. I think that it's really anybody's guess. I'm certainly will see a lot of the applications that have already been discussed are already there's already R and D on a lot of these things. I think that we'll see those come into fruition. But I think this is also unique because we don't know really what cluttered airspace even looks like in cities or in communities. So with other technological innovations, say transportation network companies like Uber and Lyft. Cities were challenged by the platform, and how to regulate that. But we're intimately familiar with what it's like for a car to drive around in the city atmosphere. We don't know what it looks like for a drone to be flying around amongst the airspace or, like, whizzing past our heads. So we can't even really imagine what this might look like, to have our airspace and cities inhabited by drone. And as I mentioned, most of the regulation to date has been aimed at at safety and more geared toward recreational operation. So who knows what this is going to look like in even twenty years? I think that there are a lot of industry private sector companies who are really looking to capitalize on this. And and anybody's guess what it's actually gonna look like in terms of the public sphere, how it's gonna be regulated by cities, and what it's gonna make our cities look like physically. Do you think that's maybe why the FAA rules left some gray areas? Because maybe there's some areas that we simply just don't know how to address yet? Oh, certainly. I mean, I think this is gonna be a living and breathing issue for sure. We're gonna have to keep coming back to the drawing board as we see how things play out. Look up the report from the National League of Cities. Again, it's called Cities and Drones. I'll include a link with the show notes where you can find it at nlc.0rg or just Google search the title. Final word from Steve Josick from the town of Manio. Yeah. Like, it's a burgeoning technology and and burgeoning field. There's still a lot of questions that are are coming up and the answers are changing, which makes it it's difficult because you're trying to hit a moving target. What you learned six months ago might not be true six months from then. I welcome your comments. If you work for a city or a town that operates a UAS, a UAV, a drone, whatever you wanna call it, get up with me and tell me your story. Tell me what you've run into, what solutions you have, unique ideas you have for the use of a drone. Let me know. I'm at bbrown@nclm.org. And on Twitter, the handle is muniequation. That's at m u n I equation. This podcast is made possible by the North Carolina League of Municipalities online at nclm.0rg. All episodes of the podcast are found there or at soundcloud.com/municipalequation. If you have an idea for a future episode, reach out to me. Again, that's bbrown@nclm.org. My name is Ben Brown. 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Possibilities, pratfalls, questions, questions, questions. We get into it with a series of experts from the public and private sectors on where this is all going and how local government might adopt drone technology to improve services and life for residents. My name is Ben Brown and this is Municipal Equation from the North Carolina League of Municipalities, episode 13. If you want to go down an Internet rabbit hole, go to YouTube and do a search for drone.\n\nI did that a few days ago and got 12,400,000 results. That's 12,400,000 videos somehow related to drones. There's one that's gotten 11,700,000 views titled drone used to catch cheating wife, which actually wasn't very fun to watch and I don't advise you look it up. There's one at 3,600,000 views titled drone fails, which for six and a half minutes is pretty much just a montage of crashes and other mishaps. That's a little more entertaining.\n\nA lot of drones are outfitted with cameras, so I typed in the phrase cool drone footage just to see what will come up and got about a 167,000 videos of drones capturing high quality spectacular footage like aerial shots of fireworks or cityscapes or tropical islands or volcanoes or running herds of animals. I found a hypnotic drone video of blue whales. Here's audio from a video of a drone hovering over a bighorn sheep as in the animal with bighorns. And here's the sheep actually head butting it to the ground.\n\nSpeaker 2: Uh-huh. What was this?\n\nSpeaker 0: Inevitably, I ran into laughably fake drone footage of flying saucers. Then I found a video advertising a drone that looks like a flying saucer, which I think might have been fake too. So yeah, a rabbit hole. For a good while now at the League of Municipalities, the phones have been ringing and the inboxes have been filling up with questions about drones in the context of local government, about how police departments should deal with drones and how to answer questions from residents about drones, and about how local governments themselves can use drones. As the rabbit hole indicated, there are plenty of applications for drones to be used.\n\nImagine how quickly, for instance, a fire department could gauge the scope of an emergency by flying a drone out to the site of a 911 call or how much quicker a tax office could assess the value of a property or a planning department surveying a development site or a city examining the extent of damage after a natural disaster. And you might say, well, come on. We can already do that with helicopters or Cessnas. But think of the potential difference in cost like with fuel and the fact that drones are operated by remote. The conversation keeps growing and so do the questions.\n\nSo just recently,\n\nSpeaker 3: Let's head\n\nSpeaker 0: Let's head out to the coast of North Carolina. The Outer Banks where you'll find the town of Manteo spelled M A N T E O where about 1,400 people live.\n\nSpeaker 4: Manteo is probably best known as one of the residences of Andy Griffith.\n\nSpeaker 0: It's also known as having one of the very few local governments in North Carolina that operates its own drone.\n\nSpeaker 4: The town of Manio currently uses a DJI Phantom three Professional.\n\nSpeaker 0: This is Steve Josik. He's the town's IT specialist, and he flies the drone.\n\nSpeaker 4: There wasn't really any precedent for a town, operating a drone, and actually we were having issues finding support networks, other towns that that had similar ambitions. We were hoping not to be a pioneer, in the field, since we are so small and have limited staff, but we called around and and, spoke to a couple of municipalities, in Utah and Texas, that had used drones.\n\nSpeaker 0: So what'd you plan to use it for?\n\nSpeaker 4: We are part of a government access channel, and so we had a lot of uses that we wanted, kind of varied uses that we wanted, to use the the drone for. We had special events, traffic issues, public works projects.\n\nSpeaker 0: Recently, hurricane Matthew put a lot of North Carolina and parts of neighboring states underwater. Joseph said drones have really changed how quickly and accurately authorities can document damage, and that was the case in Manio.\n\nSpeaker 4: Previously, we were only able to assess damage that we could see driving down through our streets. And Pirates Cove is out on a peninsula, so it's relatively low cost for us to get out and fly and survey damage that we wouldn't be able to see it any other way.\n\nSpeaker 0: And before I get yelled at, I have to point out that people I've talked with in the industry prefer to say unmanned aerial systems or unmanned aerial vehicles, abbreviated as UAS or UAV. So when you hear that in this episode, you'll know they're talking about drones. Just to explain that part a little bit more, here's Ted Linsley. He's the CEO of a company in the UAS industry called Oliris, who is one of the panelists at the recent forum.\n\nSpeaker 5: What's happening right now in the industry is, we're in a transitional stage. So drones for example. That term comes from, like, 1930. It's a, an unmanned aircraft with no intelligence that was designed to be an artillery target and nothing more. So that moniker stuck with the technology.\n\nThe term unmanned aerial system, UAS or UAV, most people don't know this, but that comes these these were developed from the hobby industry where, hobbyists said, hey. We could use these for commercial applications. I do have some cool ideas for them. And they said, you know what? If we don't call it an aircraft, it's exempt from FAA regulation.\n\nWe can do whatever we want. So we're gonna call it an unmanned aerial vehicle, unmanned aerial system.\n\nSpeaker 0: And so So that's some background. And things have changed in terms of regulation, and we'll get to that in a bit. But from Linsley's private sector perspective, the conversation about drones and government should focus less on new rules and regulations and more on the possibility.\n\nSpeaker 5: Sites and the standard that we're setting is that, we'll fly in the same manner the helicopter does.\n\nSpeaker 2: So if\n\nSpeaker 5: you have city regulations or county regulations that control what you can and can do with a helicopter, simply put those over in the UAV box, and that'll cover about 90% of your history. The rest of it will get sorted out very quickly. Insurance carriers will decide who they'll underwrite and who they want. If you can't get insurance, you can't operate commercially. If you can't operate safely, not only can you not get insured, but you won't be able to get a permit from a city or county or state authority to be able to do what you wanna do.\n\nSo, really, I I think we're we're putting too much emphasis on that part. We should just focus on, creating ways to let new companies build this technology, and then you decide how you wanna embrace it.\n\nSpeaker 0: Lindsley acknowledges that that might not be the most popular perspective to to people who work in local government. Questions, concerns, and what ifs to many people mean that maybe we should explore more rules. Well, this year, the Federal Aviation Administration put into effect a series of regulations on the operation of drones. When these rules came out, the National League of Cities put out an in-depth report called cities and drones on what they mean for cities and towns, use, regulation, what have you. Nicole du Puis was an author of that report.\n\nShe's with the NLC. You'll recall that we spoke with her in our episode about local infrastructure. She's back to tell us about the FAA rules for drones.\n\nSpeaker 1: I can't say exactly when the first city, looked at a drone and said, oh, maybe this is more than just a toy or or something that we thought of it, in in past years. But the origin of this report is really that NLC recognized that drones are becoming more mainstream as a technology and also more relevant to cities, both in both in terms of the possibilities looming for cities using drones, as well as the challenges inherent for cities when they need to legislate on drone operation, whether that operation be commercial or personal or used by hobbyists or public. So we recognize this need amongst our members. We heard it from a lot of them, for guidance, especially as it relates to the, I guess, it's semi new FAA rule on drone usage. And this really is sort of the Wild West for cities and that it's so new and that's kind of our job.\n\nOur job is to help local governments and policymakers address some of these new technological innovations. So we saw a real need in terms of the challenges and opportunities posed by drones, drone usage, and where it fits into existing regulatory context.\n\nSpeaker 0: Before we move on from the various applications of drones in local government, here's Dupuy giving us a few more examples, just in case you're curious.\n\nSpeaker 1: Certainly, we've we've heard of them being used in in the context of law enforcement and firefighting and maybe as rural ambulances. You know, oftentimes, cities will use them to, look for, criminal suspects if there's somebody on the run. We've heard of them use this as firefighting mechanism, and then as as ambulance services in in remote and rural areas as well. Cities also, have have started thinking about using drones for inspections and environmental monitoring and disaster management. In February 2015, the city of Somerville, Massachusetts hired an aerial cinematography and multimedia company to actually survey their municipal buildings for excessive snow build up.\n\nSo, they realized that it would be quicker and probably cheaper than sending out in person, you know, person inspectors. And then finally, we we have seen, commercial or drones used for precision farming, and aerial photography. And in the near future, I think we've all heard about, you know, probably Amazon package delivery. So using drones to spray and treat crops could definitely save time and money, result in more precision application of pesticides or other chemicals. And then, more than half of the, 100 or 1,000, excuse me, commercial exemptions granted by the FAA, initially, for drones were for aerial photography.\n\nSo this is really becoming an important tool for a variety of industries, not just cities, but, you know, on the commercial side, particularly real estate. And then, of course, I I mentioned already online retailers, not just Amazon, but also Walmart, Google, and Alibaba are developing drone delivery systems as well. So we can expect that, I think, probably fairly soon to to kind of be a big, blip on the radar of this discussion.\n\nSpeaker 0: So it's not brand new, but it's still kind of a new frontier. Do we do we know roughly how many local governments right now are operating drones?\n\nSpeaker 1: We don't, unfortunately. We know that in 2015, however, the world sales of drones hit approximately 4,300,000. And and by the January 2016, over 325,000 of those drones had been registered with the FAA, and that was the highest number the FAA had ever seen. So the FAA expects 2,500,000 drones will be sold domestically in 2016, and there's been a lot of speculation that they will be a pretty hot item under a lot of Christmas trees this year. So while several cities are are currently experimenting, with various ways in which drones can be used, fewer have, really delineated how public officials can use drones.\n\nA good bit of the city legislation passed on drones to this point has been passed to regulate recreational use of drones. So kind of more of like your hobbyist, you know, citizens who are interested in in aviation, and wanna fly their their recreational drones around. So, unfortunately, the answer is that we don't really know at this point how many cities have purchased drones for municipal use, but this is something we're hoping to do research on in the near future, in one of our future surveys with city officials.\n\nSpeaker 0: Now the the operation of drones sometimes comes with worry. You know, government operation, especially, I think, can kinda worry people about misuse, mishaps. The word surveillance comes into it from time to time. You know, you can find videos on YouTube of people accidentally crashing drones, and that's maybe mostly hobbyists or private professionals, but there's, you know, the privacy concern too. So in the government sphere, excluding military use, what's the track record like for using drones appropriately?\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean, to your point, drones really do present a challenge for cities. They raise safety and privacy and nuisance and trespassing concerns, all of which are compounded by this lack of accountability associated with most drone operations. The fact that people can fly them, and you can't necessarily always, connect the operator with the device. So, you know, like you mentioned, the safety issues, for example, are when operators fly their drones over people or near airplanes, aircraft.\n\nCity residents often have privacy concerns with any small device that's kind of hovering nearby that could potentially be taking photos or collecting data on them. And frankly, cities need to address any circumstance in which, a municipally owned drone might be taking video or collecting information about their citizens. That is one of those very, challenging sticky problems that that cities need to address before they deploy any kind of public drone fleet. Drones, also, I mentioned, can be operated remotely, so it makes it difficult to identify who's flying if there is, unfortunately, an accident that causes injury to persons or property. And and these are some of the most commonly cited challenges.\n\nCities need to, think about how to address them. And from what we've seen so far, the FAA's rule really left some opportunity for them to take an assessment of their own communities and figure out the best legislative solution. And these have been the kind of crux of of the legislative solutions that are being put forth. So, a lot of focus on safety, making sure that their citizens are safe and out of harm's way if drones are in operation in the community, and also the preservation of public space. We've seen a lot of ordinances that have focused on, you know, maybe a park that, city officials don't necessarily want to be inundated with drones or perhaps a mega event where there's gonna be 50,000 people in one place.\n\nAnd the idea of drones flying overhead seems a little bit risky. So, really, those are kind of the two big issues that we've seen kinda come up. Now NLC is always, in favor of local control over these issues. That is kind of what we what we what we push for. That being said, we do encourage our members not just to ban drones outright, to be really thoughtful about how they act toward new technology technologies and technological innovations like drones.\n\nSo rather than, you know, just ban something outright because it's scary and new and we don't really know what it looks like, we encourage our members to carefully consider how drone technology might serve them and how it might work most effectively in their communities. So there's always that balance that local policymakers have to strike in terms of embracing innovation while keeping their cities safe and efficient.\n\nSpeaker 0: Right. Right. And on the topic of regulation, you mentioned the FAA rules. Could you maybe nutshell what it's all about? You know, why did the FAA rule come about?\n\nYou know, what's what's here now that wasn't there before in terms of regulation? What what's that all about?\n\nSpeaker 1: Sure. So the FAA, put forth a rule that treats all drones as aircraft and subjects them to federal aviation regulation. Federal law, they've created four primary categories of unmanned aerial vehicles or or UAVs, remote pilots holding a part 107 certificate, public UAS or UAV operators, model aircraft operators, and then those holding three three three exemptions. So the majority of operators in this case are likely going to apply for and attain what's called a part one zero seven certificate, which will allow them to operate both recreationally and commercially. Model aircraft operators will have to meet somewhat stricter requirements and be ruled by a set of kind of national and community guidelines that have been established for many years, for their rep recreational operations.\n\nAnd then public operators have the choice to either apply for what's called a certificate of authorization, COA, from the FAA delineating the operational use of the drone, or they can opt for also a part 107 certificate. Really the FAA in our reading left large swaths of regulatory territory up to the local and state authorities. They really didn't establish much more than guidelines for safe operation and kind of a minimum threshold for what they would investigate if an accident did occur. So it it really felt like there was a there was a lot of gray area in the rule, that cities could come in and regulate, on this issue in a way that makes sense for their community.\n\nSpeaker 0: So if I work for a city government and I see an application for a drone in my line of work, say, you know, I I work in a city planning office or the tax office or law enforcement, What would I need to do in terms of fulfilling the requirements or licensing to be able to operate a drone? You you mentioned the COA. Yeah. How stringent is all of this?\n\nSpeaker 1: Well, yeah, like I said, first and foremost, I'll I'll just reinforce the idea that, cities do need to adhere to the FAA rule. So they would need to apply for either that COA or that part 107 certificate to make sure that, they were complying with the FAA's rulemaking. But there are also, state laws to contend with and to consider. Much of the legislation that has been passed in this area has been at the state level. Over one third, of all states now have laws governing how public agencies can use drones.\n\nSeveral states out loan use, of drones by law enforcement and require probable cause and warrants before drones can be used, often with some exceptions. But cities really need to think about that as well. In addition to complying with the FAA's regulation, also being aware of any state regulations that might exist. So there are, you know, there are as with so many technological innovations, there are a lot of moving parts that I think city officials need to be aware of. And and if I had to if I had to, break it down to kind of the three considerations, it would be the FAA's rulemaking, making sure you're complying with that, making sure you're complying with any state legislation or state law, and then, figuring out how it best works for your particular community.\n\nSpeaker 0: So drone is kind of a generic term.\n\nSpeaker 4: You know,\n\nSpeaker 0: I I've seen drones that measure several feet across, and then I've seen drones that are the size of a a dinner plate or a phonographic record or even smaller. Is there you know, what what sets them apart legally? Is is there a distinction from them and from, say, a a remote controlled airplane or one of those small drones that we might see under a Christmas tree?\n\nSpeaker 1: Sure. So in in recent years, I think when people heard the word drone, it probably referred to an unmanned aircraft in a military context overseas. So military drones can have wingspans of well over a 100 feet, and they can weigh, anywhere from, you know, six around 16 tons. Today, most of the drones that we're talking about or that we're seeing, discussed in headlines domestically are these small model quadcopters or kind of helicopters with four propellers with cameras attached to them. Many of the highly rated consumer drones also have high high definition cameras, might weigh about 10 pounds and have flight times of around twenty minutes.\n\nSo as of December 2015, all drones that weigh over half a pound, not the kind that, you know, you might see a young child playing with, that will be flown outside have to be registered with the FAA before they can be flown. So that's the distinction they're making, that weight of over a half pound. And the FAA hopes that this new registration requirement will not only provide more accountability for all drone users regardless of what category they they might fall into, but will also serve as a kind of conduit to help educate individuals who maybe are not familiar with some of the national regulations and safety practices, or maybe have no prior flying experience. They're not familiar with model aircraft regulations. So, I think that's why they they passed what some might see as as such a stringent rule for for registration.\n\nSpeaker 0: You mentioned the number of new drones that we're gonna be seeing, and some local governments are probably, you know, making you know, maybe police agencies are wondering how they deal with these drones that are maybe being operated in a a reckless or a nuisance way. And and how is that being handled?\n\nSpeaker 1: Well, like I said, there's a lot of gray area in the FAA ordinance that allows cities to regulate drones in a way that they say you see fit so to protect communities. But also maybe promote innovation and kind of embrace this this exciting new technology. City should focus on two things. First, using land use and zoning powers to designate when and where drones can take off land operate as well as any operational limit limitations or criteria. So this is this is not a new power.\n\nCities have always had kind of this land use power at their disposal. And I think the distinction here is even though the FAA regulates airspace, these are still taking off from a particular place that is located in a city. So that's kind of the nuance there with with the land use and zoning powers. The second thing they should focus on is creating ordinances that punish operators for operating UAVs in a in a wreck in a reckless way that might endanger persons or property. And they, like you mentioned, need to also consider appropriate enforcement infrastructure.\n\nSo I think a lot of the enforcement for these types of things is going to come down to local law enforcement. And, you know, that is a challenge for some local law enforcement agencies that might feel already overburdened with things that, were not traditionally in their purview. But they're really the only, as far as we can see, suitable, body to to regulate and enforce these rules. So a lot of cities have kind of done that, and, have tried to establish, more than guidelines for for safe operation and a minimum threshold, for investigations into accidents. Like I said, the the bulk of the legislating on this will will really fall to local and state authorities.\n\nSpeaker 3: Okay. So so you really have to kind of think about what you wanna use it for. There and and there are some systems out there that can give you enough flexibility, to where you can go do search and rescue. You can do your narcotics stuff.\n\nSpeaker 5: You can do,\n\nSpeaker 3: rapid response, to an emergency. You could you could, you know, drop a cell phone to somebody that's in a hot, you know, hostage situation and you wanna talk to them. Or, you know, a med kit to, SWAT, member that that got injured and you wanna drop them a blowout kit. There's all kinds of things like that that you can do.\n\nSpeaker 0: That was Chris Gibson. He's the UAS program manager for the North Carolina Department of Transportation. That was at the league's recent forum on drones when he was prompted to talk more about applications. Inevitably, the question of privacy came up. Representative John Torbett, a member of the North Carolina General Assembly who has a long history with UAS technology and has helped with state legislation related to it, put the question of privacy to a lawyer on the panel named Steven Hartsell.\n\nBy the way, if Torbit's voice sounds familiar, he was also on the episode with Nicole DuPuy about infrastructure. Anyway, here's Torbit and then you'll hear from Steven Hartzell.\n\nSpeaker 6: Steven, privacy is always gonna be a concern of the public. I can attest to that working with the legislation that was put into place. That was the number one concern that we heard from the general citizen. But a proxy is always gonna be a concern of the public when discussing UAS or drone activities. What role will cities likely play in protecting reasonable expectations of privacy against widespread drone visibility in neighborhoods, shopping centers, parks, etcetera?\n\nSpeaker 0: And just a heads up, Hartzell is really detailed in his answer. I'm gonna play the whole thing unedited.\n\nSpeaker 2: So privacy is one of these issues that I think is gonna keep on coming up. When we were putting this panel together, one of my co panelists sitting up at this table said, man, are we really still talking about privacy and drones? I mean, haven't we gotten past that? And the short answer is no. And part of the reason is, there's been public perception over the last few to several years as drones have really come into public consciousness that, the drones can be used and are being used for certain nefarious purposes to invade people's privacy.\n\nAnd the example that's always given is somebody sunbathing in the backyard, somebody's daughter sunbathing. And the truth of the matter is that there some of that perception is, maybe faulty and maybe faulty and maybe a little bit, unnecessary, but I think there are also very legitimate privacy concerns. And one of the things that wigs people out is when we get new technology that we haven't had before, that's mobile technology, and that perhaps can even be used in a manner that is surreptitious, that causes people legitimate concern. And you think back to cell phones fifteen years ago when people put when companies put cameras in cell phones, and the first question was, what are we gonna do with that camera? Because we're really concerned it's a mobile small device.\n\nNow here we are sixteen years later, and at least two major cell phone manufacturers market their phones on the basis of how good their camera is. So in that fifteen year period, we've become accustomed to these devices, and I think that over time, the public will become more accustomed to, to drones, and the privacy concerns, I think, will diminish some. So what does that really mean though for for local governments in terms of regulating in that area? And my view and our firm represents both commercial enterprises and also represents some local governments in various matters. And so my view of that issue for local governments is we need to be really, really careful and deliberate about thinking whether or not we really need to regulate in the area of privacy.\n\nAs representative Torbett mentioned, there's already a state law that governs many aspects of privacy that is very drone specific. In addition, there's a bunch of other state law claims that can be brought against any kind of technology that abates privacy, whether it's a criminal keeping Tom statue or whether it's, cyber stalking. There are these other mechanisms that are already in place that are largely technologically neutral. And I think that sometimes when you take, take laws and ordinances and you target them at a specific technology, I think it can have unintended consequences. So I'd be careful at the local level about about considering passing and adopting ordinances that relate to privacy, as it as it impacts UAS operations.\n\nNow that that sort of puts aside the issue, and, of course, again, to representative Torpitt's credit, the the state statute also talks a great deal about, what law enforcement can do, and that's sort of a separate issue. There's fourth amendment concerns with any sort of government, use of of surveillance equipment. But again, from a technologically neutral standpoint, those are important issues, and we should be careful about, pulling out drones and targeting them specifically. The other thing that I wanna mention about that is, in North Carolina, and North Carolina is not unique in this regard, there's an interesting preemption wrinkle that occurs with privacy. So any local government that is looking at privacy issues or any other type of regulation that, feds is left for feds is left for the states to regulate.\n\nAt the state level, and again, North Carolina is not unique in this regard, North Carolina, the constitution established that the general assembly would create political subdivisions such as municipalities and counties, and the appellate courts in North Carolina have consistently said that those political subdivisions only have the authority that is given to them by the general assembly. They don't they don't get the residual authority like states do vis a vis the the federal government. So there's also a potential issue for any local government that wants to regulate privacy and drones because we already have a state statute that's on point. And then the final thing I'll say is think about how difficult it would be as well as a practical matter for folks to know and understand what all the various privacy regulations are if we have an ordinance by ordinance basis from community to community. I live in Chapel Hill.\n\nI live in, actually, in Carrboro. I have a Chapel Hill address. Where Chapel Hill begins, Carrboro ends, I couldn't tell you. But if those two, local governments were to adopt privacy ordinances that were conflicting or inconsistent, it would be really difficult as a practical matter for folks to understand and be able to abide by them. So my counsel would be, let's let's sort of pull back the reins on any local privacy regulation.\n\nSpeaker 0: Without a doubt, there are a thousand other burning questions that you have that we probably haven't answered in this episode. And, frankly, it would take hours and hours of talk to even crack the surface. The forum that you've been hearing samples from was nearly three hours long, and it could have easily gone the entire day. It covered a lot, and I'll post a link to the entire thing, a video, in the show notes at sound cloud dot com slash municipal equation. But before we go, Nicole, where do you see this all headed?\n\nYou know, it it's kind of a theme in local government to envision the year 2030 and wonder where we'll be. This might be a big dreamy question, but, you know, where do you see drones headed?\n\nSpeaker 1: Well, I wish I had a crystal ball. I think that it's really anybody's guess. I'm certainly will see a lot of the applications that have already been discussed are already there's already R and D on a lot of these things. I think that we'll see those come into fruition. But I think this is also unique because we don't know really what cluttered airspace even looks like in cities or in communities.\n\nSo with other technological innovations, say transportation network companies like Uber and Lyft. Cities were challenged by the platform, and how to regulate that. But we're intimately familiar with what it's like for a car to drive around in the city atmosphere. We don't know what it looks like for a drone to be flying around amongst the airspace or, like, whizzing past our heads. So we can't even really imagine what this might look like, to have our airspace and cities inhabited by drone.\n\nAnd as I mentioned, most of the regulation to date has been aimed at at safety and more geared toward recreational operation. So who knows what this is going to look like in even twenty years? I think that there are a lot of industry private sector companies who are really looking to capitalize on this. And and anybody's guess what it's actually gonna look like in terms of the public sphere, how it's gonna be regulated by cities, and what it's gonna make our cities look like physically.\n\nSpeaker 0: Do you think that's maybe why the FAA rules left some gray areas? Because maybe there's some areas that we simply just don't know how to address yet?\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh, certainly. I mean, I think this is gonna be a living and breathing issue for sure. We're gonna have to keep coming back to the drawing board as we see how things play out.\n\nSpeaker 0: Look up the report from the National League of Cities. Again, it's called Cities and Drones. I'll include a link with the show notes where you can find it at nlc.0rg or just Google search the title. Final word from Steve Josick from the town of Manio.\n\nSpeaker 4: Yeah. Like, it's a burgeoning technology and and burgeoning field. There's still a lot of questions that are are coming up and the answers are changing, which makes it it's difficult because you're trying to hit a moving target. What you learned six months ago might not be true six months from then.\n\nSpeaker 0: I welcome your comments. If you work for a city or a town that operates a UAS, a UAV, a drone, whatever you wanna call it, get up with me and tell me your story. Tell me what you've run into, what solutions you have, unique ideas you have for the use of a drone. Let me know. I'm at bbrown@nclm.org.\n\nAnd on Twitter, the handle is muniequation. That's at m u n I equation. This podcast is made possible by the North Carolina League of Municipalities online at nclm.0rg. All episodes of the podcast are found there or at soundcloud.com/municipalequation. If you have an idea for a future episode, reach out to me.\n\nAgain, that's bbrown@nclm.org. My name is Ben Brown. Talk to you again soon.", "paragraphs": [ { "sentences": [ { "text": "On this episode of Municipal Equation.", "start": 3.6799998, "end": 5.7799997 } ], "start": 3.6799998, "end": 5.7799997, "num_words": 6.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Drones are becoming more mainstream as a technology and also more relevant to cities, both in both in terms of the possibilities looming for cities using drones as well as the challenges inherent for cities when they need to legislate on drone operation.", "start": 5.92, "end": 20.265 } ], "start": 5.92, "end": 20.265, "num_words": 43.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Where drones intersect with local government?", "start": 20.485, "end": 22.505001 }, { "text": "Possibilities, pratfalls, questions, questions, questions.", "start": 22.724998, "end": 26.199999 }, { "text": "We get into it with a series of experts from the public and private sectors on where this is all going and how local government might adopt drone technology to improve services and life for residents.", "start": 26.66, "end": 36.6 }, { "text": "My name is Ben Brown and this is Municipal Equation from the North Carolina League of Municipalities, episode 13.", "start": 36.899998, "end": 43.435 }, { "text": "If you want to go down an Internet rabbit hole, go to YouTube and do a search for drone.", "start": 89.94, "end": 94.68 } ], "start": 20.485, "end": 94.68, "num_words": 85.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I did that a few days ago and got 12,400,000 results.", "start": 95.06, "end": 98.52 }, { "text": "That's 12,400,000 videos somehow related to drones.", "start": 98.565, "end": 102.025 }, { "text": "There's one that's gotten 11,700,000 views titled drone used to catch cheating wife, which actually wasn't very fun to watch and I don't advise you look it up.", "start": 102.405, "end": 110.345 }, { "text": "There's one at 3,600,000 views titled drone fails, which for six and a half minutes is pretty much just a montage of crashes and other mishaps.", "start": 110.405, "end": 118.0 }, { "text": "That's a little more entertaining.", "start": 118.0, "end": 119.299995 } ], "start": 95.06, "end": 119.299995, "num_words": 77.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "A lot of drones are outfitted with cameras, so I typed in the phrase cool drone footage just to see what will come up and got about a 167,000 videos of drones capturing high quality spectacular footage like aerial shots of fireworks or cityscapes or tropical islands or volcanoes or running herds of animals.", "start": 121.03999, "end": 139.825 }, { "text": "I found a hypnotic drone video of blue whales.", "start": 140.15001, "end": 142.89 }, { "text": "Here's audio from a video of a drone hovering over a bighorn sheep as in the animal with bighorns.", "start": 143.51, "end": 148.97 }, { "text": "And here's the sheep actually head butting it to the ground.", "start": 152.07, "end": 154.81 } ], "start": 121.03999, "end": 154.81, "num_words": 93.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Uh-huh.", "start": 165.735, "end": 165.975 }, { "text": "What was this?", "start": 165.975, "end": 166.795 } ], "start": 165.735, "end": 166.795, "num_words": 4.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Inevitably, I ran into laughably fake drone footage of flying saucers.", "start": 167.735, "end": 172.43999 }, { "text": "Then I found a video advertising a drone that looks like a flying saucer, which I think might have been fake too.", "start": 172.81999, "end": 178.04 }, { "text": "So yeah, a rabbit hole.", "start": 178.34, "end": 180.36 }, { "text": "For a good while now at the League of Municipalities, the phones have been ringing and the inboxes have been filling up with questions about drones in the context of local government, about how police departments should deal with drones and how to answer questions from residents about drones, and about how local governments themselves can use drones.", "start": 182.435, "end": 199.81999 }, { "text": "As the rabbit hole indicated, there are plenty of applications for drones to be used.", "start": 200.12, "end": 204.06 } ], "start": 167.735, "end": 204.06, "num_words": 111.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Imagine how quickly, for instance, a fire department could gauge the scope of an emergency by flying a drone out to the site of a 911 call or how much quicker a tax office could assess the value of a property or a planning department surveying a development site or a city examining the extent of damage after a natural disaster.", "start": 204.28, "end": 222.575 }, { "text": "And you might say, well, come on.", "start": 223.37999, "end": 224.57999 }, { "text": "We can already do that with helicopters or Cessnas.", "start": 224.57999, "end": 227.0 }, { "text": "But think of the potential difference in cost like with fuel and the fact that drones are operated by remote.", "start": 227.45999, "end": 232.92 }, { "text": "The conversation keeps growing and so do the questions.", "start": 233.54, "end": 236.28 } ], "start": 204.28, "end": 236.28, "num_words": 106.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So just recently,", "start": 236.34, "end": 237.585 } ], "start": 236.34, "end": 237.585, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Let's head", "start": 249.265, "end": 249.925 } ], "start": 249.265, "end": 249.925, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 3 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Let's head out to the coast of North Carolina.", "start": 253.14, "end": 255.08 }, { "text": "The Outer Banks where you'll find the town of Manteo spelled M A N T E O where about 1,400 people live.", "start": 255.22, "end": 261.54 } ], "start": 253.14, "end": 261.54, "num_words": 31.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Manteo is probably best known as one of the residences of Andy Griffith.", "start": 261.78, "end": 265.80002 } ], "start": 261.78, "end": 265.80002, "num_words": 13.0, "speaker": 4 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's also known as having one of the very few local governments in North Carolina that operates its own drone.", "start": 265.86002, "end": 271.055 } ], "start": 265.86002, "end": 271.055, "num_words": 20.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "The town of Manio currently uses a DJI Phantom three Professional.", "start": 271.51498, "end": 275.455 } ], "start": 271.51498, "end": 275.455, "num_words": 11.0, "speaker": 4 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "This is Steve Josik.", "start": 275.595, "end": 276.635 }, { "text": "He's the town's IT specialist, and he flies the drone.", "start": 276.635, "end": 279.455 } ], "start": 275.595, "end": 279.455, "num_words": 14.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "There wasn't really any precedent for a town, operating a drone, and actually we were having issues finding support networks, other towns that that had similar ambitions.", "start": 279.59, "end": 290.17 }, { "text": "We were hoping not to be a pioneer, in the field, since we are so small and have limited staff, but we called around and and, spoke to a couple of municipalities, in Utah and Texas, that had used drones.", "start": 290.23, "end": 305.155 } ], "start": 279.59, "end": 305.155, "num_words": 67.0, "speaker": 4 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So what'd you plan to use it for?", "start": 305.615, "end": 307.23502 } ], "start": 305.615, "end": 307.23502, "num_words": 8.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We are part of a government access channel, and so we had a lot of uses that we wanted, kind of varied uses that we wanted, to use the the drone for.", "start": 308.24, "end": 321.135 }, { "text": "We had special events, traffic issues, public works projects.", "start": 322.17502, "end": 326.83502 } ], "start": 308.24, "end": 326.83502, "num_words": 41.0, "speaker": 4 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Recently, hurricane Matthew put a lot of North Carolina and parts of neighboring states underwater.", "start": 327.77502, "end": 332.515 }, { "text": "Joseph said drones have really changed how quickly and accurately authorities can document damage, and that was the case in Manio.", "start": 333.05502, "end": 339.64 } ], "start": 327.77502, "end": 339.64, "num_words": 36.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Previously, we were only able to assess damage that we could see driving down through our streets.", "start": 339.78, "end": 346.04 }, { "text": "And Pirates Cove is out on a peninsula, so it's relatively low cost for us to get out and fly and survey damage that we wouldn't be able to see it any other way.", "start": 346.18002, "end": 358.495 } ], "start": 339.78, "end": 358.495, "num_words": 51.0, "speaker": 4 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And before I get yelled at, I have to point out that people I've talked with in the industry prefer to say unmanned aerial systems or unmanned aerial vehicles, abbreviated as UAS or UAV.", "start": 359.995, "end": 371.1 }, { "text": "So when you hear that in this episode, you'll know they're talking about drones.", "start": 371.48, "end": 375.1 }, { "text": "Just to explain that part a little bit more, here's Ted Linsley.", "start": 377.24503, "end": 380.385 }, { "text": "He's the CEO of a company in the UAS industry called Oliris, who is one of the panelists at the recent forum.", "start": 380.52502, "end": 386.465 } ], "start": 359.995, "end": 386.465, "num_words": 82.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "What's happening right now in the industry is, we're in a transitional stage.", "start": 387.405, "end": 391.245 }, { "text": "So drones for example.", "start": 391.245, "end": 393.05 }, { "text": "That term comes from, like, 1930.", "start": 393.27, "end": 395.59 }, { "text": "It's a, an unmanned aircraft with no intelligence that was designed to be an artillery target and nothing more.", "start": 395.59, "end": 402.23 }, { "text": "So that moniker stuck with the technology.", "start": 402.23, "end": 404.33 } ], "start": 387.405, "end": 404.33, "num_words": 49.0, "speaker": 5 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "The term unmanned aerial system, UAS or UAV, most people don't know this, but that comes these these were developed from the hobby industry where, hobbyists said, hey.", "start": 404.87, "end": 416.355 }, { "text": "We could use these for commercial applications.", "start": 416.355, "end": 418.035 }, { "text": "I do have some cool ideas for them.", "start": 418.035, "end": 419.715 }, { "text": "And they said, you know what?", "start": 419.715, "end": 420.67502 }, { "text": "If we don't call it an aircraft, it's exempt from FAA regulation.", "start": 420.67502, "end": 424.75998 } ], "start": 404.87, "end": 424.75998, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 5 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We can do whatever we want.", "start": 424.75998, "end": 425.96 }, { "text": "So we're gonna call it an unmanned aerial vehicle, unmanned aerial system.", "start": 425.96, "end": 429.5 } ], "start": 424.75998, "end": 429.5, "num_words": 18.0, "speaker": 5 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And so So that's some background.", "start": 430.03998, "end": 431.9 }, { "text": "And things have changed in terms of regulation, and we'll get to that in a bit.", "start": 432.12, "end": 435.8 }, { "text": "But from Linsley's private sector perspective, the conversation about drones and government should focus less on new rules and regulations and more on the possibility.", "start": 435.8, "end": 445.07498 } ], "start": 430.03998, "end": 445.07498, "num_words": 47.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sites and the standard that we're setting is that, we'll fly in the same manner the helicopter does.", "start": 445.29498, "end": 451.615 } ], "start": 445.29498, "end": 451.615, "num_words": 18.0, "speaker": 5 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So if", "start": 451.615, "end": 451.935 } ], "start": 451.615, "end": 451.935, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "you have city regulations or county regulations that control what you can and can do with a helicopter, simply put those over in the UAV box, and that'll cover about 90% of your history.", "start": 451.935, "end": 461.83 }, { "text": "The rest of it will get sorted out very quickly.", "start": 462.05, "end": 464.68997 }, { "text": "Insurance carriers will decide who they'll underwrite and who they want.", "start": 465.00998, "end": 468.94498 }, { "text": "If you can't get insurance, you can't operate commercially.", "start": 468.94498, "end": 471.28497 }, { "text": "If you can't operate safely, not only can you not get insured, but you won't be able to get a permit from a city or county or state authority to be able to do what you wanna do.", "start": 471.985, "end": 480.705 } ], "start": 451.935, "end": 480.705, "num_words": 102.0, "speaker": 5 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So, really, I I think we're we're putting too much emphasis on that part.", "start": 480.705, "end": 485.17 }, { "text": "We should just focus on, creating ways to let new companies build this technology, and then you decide how you wanna embrace it.", "start": 485.17, "end": 494.31 } ], "start": 480.705, "end": 494.31, "num_words": 37.0, "speaker": 5 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Lindsley acknowledges that that might not be the most popular perspective to to people who work in local government.", "start": 494.61002, "end": 499.375 }, { "text": "Questions, concerns, and what ifs to many people mean that maybe we should explore more rules.", "start": 499.755, "end": 505.13498 }, { "text": "Well, this year, the Federal Aviation Administration put into effect a series of regulations on the operation of drones.", "start": 505.435, "end": 511.455 }, { "text": "When these rules came out, the National League of Cities put out an in-depth report called cities and drones on what they mean for cities and towns, use, regulation, what have you.", "start": 512.39, "end": 522.41 }, { "text": "Nicole du Puis was an author of that report.", "start": 522.55, "end": 524.47 } ], "start": 494.61002, "end": 524.47, "num_words": 95.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "She's with the NLC.", "start": 524.47, "end": 525.52997 }, { "text": "You'll recall that we spoke with her in our episode about local infrastructure.", "start": 525.935, "end": 528.915 }, { "text": "She's back to tell us about the FAA rules for drones.", "start": 529.695, "end": 532.435 } ], "start": 524.47, "end": 532.435, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I can't say exactly when the first city, looked at a drone and said, oh, maybe this is more than just a toy or or something that we thought of it, in in past years.", "start": 533.45496, "end": 543.91 }, { "text": "But the origin of this report is really that NLC recognized that drones are becoming more mainstream as a technology and also more relevant to cities, both in both in terms of the possibilities looming for cities using drones, as well as the challenges inherent for cities when they need to legislate on drone operation, whether that operation be commercial or personal or used by hobbyists or public.", "start": 543.91, "end": 569.265 }, { "text": "So we recognize this need amongst our members.", "start": 569.72003, "end": 572.2 }, { "text": "We heard it from a lot of them, for guidance, especially as it relates to the, I guess, it's semi new FAA rule on drone usage.", "start": 572.2, "end": 582.22003 }, { "text": "And this really is sort of the Wild West for cities and that it's so new and that's kind of our job.", "start": 582.775, "end": 589.575 } ], "start": 533.45496, "end": 589.575, "num_words": 159.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Our job is to help local governments and policymakers address some of these new technological innovations.", "start": 589.575, "end": 594.555 }, { "text": "So we saw a real need in terms of the challenges and opportunities posed by drones, drone usage, and where it fits into existing regulatory context.", "start": 595.07, "end": 603.57 } ], "start": 589.575, "end": 603.57, "num_words": 42.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Before we move on from the various applications of drones in local government, here's Dupuy giving us a few more examples, just in case you're curious.", "start": 604.02997, "end": 610.37 } ], "start": 604.02997, "end": 610.37, "num_words": 26.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Certainly, we've we've heard of them being used in in the context of law enforcement and firefighting and maybe as rural ambulances.", "start": 610.565, "end": 616.985 }, { "text": "You know, oftentimes, cities will use them to, look for, criminal suspects if there's somebody on the run.", "start": 618.325, "end": 625.385 }, { "text": "We've heard of them use this as firefighting mechanism, and then as as ambulance services in in remote and rural areas as well.", "start": 626.0, "end": 634.1 }, { "text": "Cities also, have have started thinking about using drones for inspections and environmental monitoring and disaster management.", "start": 635.44, "end": 642.35504 }, { "text": "In February 2015, the city of Somerville, Massachusetts hired an aerial cinematography and multimedia company to actually survey their municipal buildings for excessive snow build up.", "start": 643.375, "end": 655.48004 } ], "start": 610.565, "end": 655.48004, "num_words": 106.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So, they realized that it would be quicker and probably cheaper than sending out in person, you know, person inspectors.", "start": 655.48004, "end": 664.14 }, { "text": "And then finally, we we have seen, commercial or drones used for precision farming, and aerial photography.", "start": 665.32, "end": 673.82495 }, { "text": "And in the near future, I think we've all heard about, you know, probably Amazon package delivery.", "start": 674.605, "end": 680.14496 }, { "text": "So using drones to spray and treat crops could definitely save time and money, result in more precision application of pesticides or other chemicals.", "start": 680.80005, "end": 689.7 }, { "text": "And then, more than half of the, 100 or 1,000, excuse me, commercial exemptions granted by the FAA, initially, for drones were for aerial photography.", "start": 690.80005, "end": 702.985 } ], "start": 655.48004, "end": 702.985, "num_words": 103.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So this is really becoming an important tool for a variety of industries, not just cities, but, you know, on the commercial side, particularly real estate.", "start": 703.125, "end": 712.31 }, { "text": "And then, of course, I I mentioned already online retailers, not just Amazon, but also Walmart, Google, and Alibaba are developing drone delivery systems as well.", "start": 713.01, "end": 724.645 }, { "text": "So we can expect that, I think, probably fairly soon to to kind of be a big, blip on the radar of this discussion.", "start": 724.645, "end": 732.58496 } ], "start": 703.125, "end": 732.58496, "num_words": 76.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So it's not brand new, but it's still kind of a new frontier.", "start": 733.205, "end": 736.31 }, { "text": "Do we do we know roughly how many local governments right now are operating drones?", "start": 736.31, "end": 740.25 } ], "start": 733.205, "end": 740.25, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We don't, unfortunately.", "start": 740.39, "end": 741.37 }, { "text": "We know that in 2015, however, the world sales of drones hit approximately 4,300,000.", "start": 741.59, "end": 748.89 }, { "text": "And and by the January 2016, over 325,000 of those drones had been registered with the FAA, and that was the highest number the FAA had ever seen.", "start": 749.475, "end": 761.635 }, { "text": "So the FAA expects 2,500,000 drones will be sold domestically in 2016, and there's been a lot of speculation that they will be a pretty hot item under a lot of Christmas trees this year.", "start": 761.635, "end": 775.26996 }, { "text": "So while several cities are are currently experimenting, with various ways in which drones can be used, fewer have, really delineated how public officials can use drones.", "start": 776.12994, "end": 787.47504 } ], "start": 740.39, "end": 787.47504, "num_words": 107.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "A good bit of the city legislation passed on drones to this point has been passed to regulate recreational use of drones.", "start": 787.47504, "end": 794.06 }, { "text": "So kind of more of like your hobbyist, you know, citizens who are interested in in aviation, and wanna fly their their recreational drones around.", "start": 794.06, "end": 804.16 }, { "text": "So, unfortunately, the answer is that we don't really know at this point how many cities have purchased drones for municipal use, but this is something we're hoping to do research on in the near future, in one of our future surveys with city officials.", "start": 804.435, "end": 816.135 } ], "start": 787.47504, "end": 816.135, "num_words": 92.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Now the the operation of drones sometimes comes with worry.", "start": 816.77997, "end": 819.82 }, { "text": "You know, government operation, especially, I think, can kinda worry people about misuse, mishaps.", "start": 819.82, "end": 825.75995 }, { "text": "The word surveillance comes into it from time to time.", "start": 825.89996, "end": 828.39996 }, { "text": "You know, you can find videos on YouTube of people accidentally crashing drones, and that's maybe mostly hobbyists or private professionals, but there's, you know, the privacy concern too.", "start": 828.45996, "end": 837.855 }, { "text": "So in the government sphere, excluding military use, what's the track record like for using drones appropriately?", "start": 837.855, "end": 844.27496 } ], "start": 816.77997, "end": 844.27496, "num_words": 80.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 845.27, "end": 845.43 }, { "text": "Well, I mean, to your point, drones really do present a challenge for cities.", "start": 845.43, "end": 848.79004 }, { "text": "They raise safety and privacy and nuisance and trespassing concerns, all of which are compounded by this lack of accountability associated with most drone operations.", "start": 848.79004, "end": 857.03 }, { "text": "The fact that people can fly them, and you can't necessarily always, connect the operator with the device.", "start": 857.03, "end": 863.665 }, { "text": "So, you know, like you mentioned, the safety issues, for example, are when operators fly their drones over people or near airplanes, aircraft.", "start": 864.365, "end": 871.58496 } ], "start": 845.27, "end": 871.58496, "num_words": 81.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "City residents often have privacy concerns with any small device that's kind of hovering nearby that could potentially be taking photos or collecting data on them.", "start": 872.52496, "end": 882.06 }, { "text": "And frankly, cities need to address any circumstance in which, a municipally owned drone might be taking video or collecting information about their citizens.", "start": 882.2, "end": 892.455 }, { "text": "That is one of those very, challenging sticky problems that that cities need to address before they deploy any kind of public drone fleet.", "start": 892.455, "end": 901.755 }, { "text": "Drones, also, I mentioned, can be operated remotely, so it makes it difficult to identify who's flying if there is, unfortunately, an accident that causes injury to persons or property.", "start": 903.20996, "end": 913.94995 }, { "text": "And and these are some of the most commonly cited challenges.", "start": 914.56995, "end": 917.38995 } ], "start": 872.52496, "end": 917.38995, "num_words": 115.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Cities need to, think about how to address them.", "start": 917.52997, "end": 920.735 }, { "text": "And from what we've seen so far, the FAA's rule really left some opportunity for them to take an assessment of their own communities and figure out the best legislative solution.", "start": 921.435, "end": 932.735 }, { "text": "And these have been the kind of crux of of the legislative solutions that are being put forth.", "start": 932.93, "end": 938.29 }, { "text": "So, a lot of focus on safety, making sure that their citizens are safe and out of harm's way if drones are in operation in the community, and also the preservation of public space.", "start": 938.29, "end": 950.895 }, { "text": "We've seen a lot of ordinances that have focused on, you know, maybe a park that, city officials don't necessarily want to be inundated with drones or perhaps a mega event where there's gonna be 50,000 people in one place.", "start": 951.435, "end": 966.16003 } ], "start": 917.52997, "end": 966.16003, "num_words": 132.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And the idea of drones flying overhead seems a little bit risky.", "start": 966.38, "end": 969.92004 }, { "text": "So, really, those are kind of the two big issues that we've seen kinda come up.", "start": 970.30005, "end": 974.685 }, { "text": "Now NLC is always, in favor of local control over these issues.", "start": 975.005, "end": 979.245 }, { "text": "That is kind of what we what we what we push for.", "start": 979.245, "end": 982.305 }, { "text": "That being said, we do encourage our members not just to ban drones outright, to be really thoughtful about how they act toward new technology technologies and technological innovations like drones.", "start": 983.005, "end": 995.5 } ], "start": 966.38, "end": 995.5, "num_words": 83.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So rather than, you know, just ban something outright because it's scary and new and we don't really know what it looks like, we encourage our members to carefully consider how drone technology might serve them and how it might work most effectively in their communities.", "start": 996.2, "end": 1011.255 }, { "text": "So there's always that balance that local policymakers have to strike in terms of embracing innovation while keeping their cities safe and efficient.", "start": 1011.715, "end": 1019.77997 } ], "start": 996.2, "end": 1019.77997, "num_words": 69.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right.", "start": 1019.83997, "end": 1020.08 }, { "text": "Right.", "start": 1020.08, "end": 1020.39996 }, { "text": "And on the topic of regulation, you mentioned the FAA rules.", "start": 1020.39996, "end": 1023.46 }, { "text": "Could you maybe nutshell what it's all about?", "start": 1023.83997, "end": 1026.1799 }, { "text": "You know, why did the FAA rule come about?", "start": 1026.24, "end": 1028.16 } ], "start": 1019.83997, "end": 1028.16, "num_words": 30.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know, what's what's here now that wasn't there before in terms of regulation?", "start": 1028.16, "end": 1031.745 }, { "text": "What what's that all about?", "start": 1031.745, "end": 1032.965 } ], "start": 1028.16, "end": 1032.965, "num_words": 19.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sure.", "start": 1033.1849, "end": 1033.585 }, { "text": "So the FAA, put forth a rule that treats all drones as aircraft and subjects them to federal aviation regulation.", "start": 1033.585, "end": 1041.365 }, { "text": "Federal law, they've created four primary categories of unmanned aerial vehicles or or UAVs, remote pilots holding a part 107 certificate, public UAS or UAV operators, model aircraft operators, and then those holding three three three exemptions.", "start": 1042.53, "end": 1063.6649 }, { "text": "So the majority of operators in this case are likely going to apply for and attain what's called a part one zero seven certificate, which will allow them to operate both recreationally and commercially.", "start": 1064.2849, "end": 1075.65 }, { "text": "Model aircraft operators will have to meet somewhat stricter requirements and be ruled by a set of kind of national and community guidelines that have been established for many years, for their rep recreational operations.", "start": 1076.67, "end": 1088.785 } ], "start": 1033.1849, "end": 1088.785, "num_words": 127.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And then public operators have the choice to either apply for what's called a certificate of authorization, COA, from the FAA delineating the operational use of the drone, or they can opt for also a part 107 certificate.", "start": 1089.5651, "end": 1103.88 }, { "text": "Really the FAA in our reading left large swaths of regulatory territory up to the local and state authorities.", "start": 1104.98, "end": 1111.72 }, { "text": "They really didn't establish much more than guidelines for safe operation and kind of a minimum threshold for what they would investigate if an accident did occur.", "start": 1112.26, "end": 1121.865 }, { "text": "So it it really felt like there was a there was a lot of gray area in the rule, that cities could come in and regulate, on this issue in a way that makes sense for their community.", "start": 1122.165, "end": 1133.4601 } ], "start": 1089.5651, "end": 1133.4601, "num_words": 122.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So if I work for a city government and I see an application for a drone in my line of work, say, you know, I I work in a city planning office or the tax office or law enforcement, What would I need to do in terms of fulfilling the requirements or licensing to be able to operate a drone?", "start": 1133.8401, "end": 1148.765 }, { "text": "You you mentioned the COA.", "start": 1148.765, "end": 1149.985 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1150.125, "end": 1150.525 }, { "text": "How stringent is all of this?", "start": 1150.525, "end": 1152.0651 } ], "start": 1133.8401, "end": 1152.0651, "num_words": 72.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Well, yeah, like I said, first and foremost, I'll I'll just reinforce the idea that, cities do need to adhere to the FAA rule.", "start": 1152.605, "end": 1160.92 }, { "text": "So they would need to apply for either that COA or that part 107 certificate to make sure that, they were complying with the FAA's rulemaking.", "start": 1160.92, "end": 1170.22 }, { "text": "But there are also, state laws to contend with and to consider.", "start": 1170.865, "end": 1174.645 }, { "text": "Much of the legislation that has been passed in this area has been at the state level.", "start": 1175.025, "end": 1179.605 }, { "text": "Over one third, of all states now have laws governing how public agencies can use drones.", "start": 1179.9049, "end": 1185.765 } ], "start": 1152.605, "end": 1185.765, "num_words": 95.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Several states out loan use, of drones by law enforcement and require probable cause and warrants before drones can be used, often with some exceptions.", "start": 1186.43, "end": 1196.61 }, { "text": "But cities really need to think about that as well.", "start": 1197.63, "end": 1200.375 }, { "text": "In addition to complying with the FAA's regulation, also being aware of any state regulations that might exist.", "start": 1200.775, "end": 1207.1951 }, { "text": "So there are, you know, there are as with so many technological innovations, there are a lot of moving parts that I think city officials need to be aware of.", "start": 1208.4551, "end": 1219.7401 }, { "text": "And and if I had to if I had to, break it down to kind of the three considerations, it would be the FAA's rulemaking, making sure you're complying with that, making sure you're complying with any state legislation or state law, and then, figuring out how it best works for your particular community.", "start": 1220.4401, "end": 1240.125 } ], "start": 1186.43, "end": 1240.125, "num_words": 137.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So drone is kind of a generic term.", "start": 1241.75, "end": 1244.2301 } ], "start": 1241.75, "end": 1244.2301, "num_words": 8.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know,", "start": 1244.2301, "end": 1244.4701 } ], "start": 1244.2301, "end": 1244.4701, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 4 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I I've seen drones that measure several feet across, and then I've seen drones that are the size of a a dinner plate or a phonographic record or even smaller.", "start": 1244.4701, "end": 1252.41 }, { "text": "Is there you know, what what sets them apart legally?", "start": 1252.63, "end": 1255.1849 }, { "text": "Is is there a distinction from them and from, say, a a remote controlled airplane or one of those small drones that we might see under a Christmas tree?", "start": 1255.1849, "end": 1263.765 } ], "start": 1244.4701, "end": 1263.765, "num_words": 69.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sure.", "start": 1263.985, "end": 1264.3049 }, { "text": "So in in recent years, I think when people heard the word drone, it probably referred to an unmanned aircraft in a military context overseas.", "start": 1264.3049, "end": 1271.6799 }, { "text": "So military drones can have wingspans of well over a 100 feet, and they can weigh, anywhere from, you know, six around 16 tons.", "start": 1273.1, "end": 1281.12 }, { "text": "Today, most of the drones that we're talking about or that we're seeing, discussed in headlines domestically are these small model quadcopters or kind of helicopters with four propellers with cameras attached to them.", "start": 1281.835, "end": 1294.9099 }, { "text": "Many of the highly rated consumer drones also have high high definition cameras, might weigh about 10 pounds and have flight times of around twenty minutes.", "start": 1295.37, "end": 1305.23 } ], "start": 1263.985, "end": 1305.23, "num_words": 110.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So as of December 2015, all drones that weigh over half a pound, not the kind that, you know, you might see a young child playing with, that will be flown outside have to be registered with the FAA before they can be flown.", "start": 1306.815, "end": 1321.8201 }, { "text": "So that's the distinction they're making, that weight of over a half pound.", "start": 1321.8201, "end": 1326.3201 }, { "text": "And the FAA hopes that this new registration requirement will not only provide more accountability for all drone users regardless of what category they they might fall into, but will also serve as a kind of conduit to help educate individuals who maybe are not familiar with some of the national regulations and safety practices, or maybe have no prior flying experience.", "start": 1326.8601, "end": 1349.34 }, { "text": "They're not familiar with model aircraft regulations.", "start": 1349.34, "end": 1351.92 }, { "text": "So, I think that's why they they passed what some might see as as such a stringent rule for for registration.", "start": 1352.7, "end": 1359.52 } ], "start": 1306.815, "end": 1359.52, "num_words": 147.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You mentioned the number of new drones that we're gonna be seeing, and some local governments are probably, you know, making you know, maybe police agencies are wondering how they deal with these drones that are maybe being operated in a a reckless or a nuisance way.", "start": 1360.78, "end": 1373.595 }, { "text": "And and how is that being handled?", "start": 1373.595, "end": 1375.195 } ], "start": 1360.78, "end": 1375.195, "num_words": 54.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Well, like I said, there's a lot of gray area in the FAA ordinance that allows cities to regulate drones in a way that they say you see fit so to protect communities.", "start": 1375.195, "end": 1383.71 }, { "text": "But also maybe promote innovation and kind of embrace this this exciting new technology.", "start": 1384.33, "end": 1389.15 }, { "text": "City should focus on two things.", "start": 1390.8099, "end": 1392.525 }, { "text": "First, using land use and zoning powers to designate when and where drones can take off land operate as well as any operational limit limitations or criteria.", "start": 1393.485, "end": 1403.985 }, { "text": "So this is this is not a new power.", "start": 1404.605, "end": 1406.4451 } ], "start": 1375.195, "end": 1406.4451, "num_words": 89.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Cities have always had kind of this land use power at their disposal.", "start": 1406.4451, "end": 1409.6901 }, { "text": "And I think the distinction here is even though the FAA regulates airspace, these are still taking off from a particular place that is located in a city.", "start": 1410.47, "end": 1420.65 }, { "text": "So that's kind of the nuance there with with the land use and zoning powers.", "start": 1421.205, "end": 1425.705 }, { "text": "The second thing they should focus on is creating ordinances that punish operators for operating UAVs in a in a wreck in a reckless way that might endanger persons or property.", "start": 1427.285, "end": 1438.38 }, { "text": "And they, like you mentioned, need to also consider appropriate enforcement infrastructure.", "start": 1439.24, "end": 1443.98 } ], "start": 1406.4451, "end": 1443.98, "num_words": 99.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So I think a lot of the enforcement for these types of things is going to come down to local law enforcement.", "start": 1444.2001, "end": 1450.2949 }, { "text": "And, you know, that is a challenge for some local law enforcement agencies that might feel already overburdened with things that, were not traditionally in their purview.", "start": 1450.595, "end": 1461.015 }, { "text": "But they're really the only, as far as we can see, suitable, body to to regulate and enforce these rules.", "start": 1462.31, "end": 1470.55 }, { "text": "So a lot of cities have kind of done that, and, have tried to establish, more than guidelines for for safe operation and a minimum threshold, for investigations into accidents.", "start": 1470.55, "end": 1486.6749 }, { "text": "Like I said, the the bulk of the legislating on this will will really fall to local and state authorities.", "start": 1487.6001, "end": 1493.9401 } ], "start": 1444.2001, "end": 1493.9401, "num_words": 119.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 1494.8, "end": 1495.3 }, { "text": "So so you really have to kind of think about what you wanna use it for.", "start": 1495.36, "end": 1498.88 }, { "text": "There and and there are some systems out there that can give you enough flexibility, to where you can go do search and rescue.", "start": 1498.88, "end": 1505.6549 }, { "text": "You can do your narcotics stuff.", "start": 1505.6549, "end": 1507.335 } ], "start": 1494.8, "end": 1507.335, "num_words": 47.0, "speaker": 3 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You can do,", "start": 1507.335, "end": 1508.1549 } ], "start": 1507.335, "end": 1508.1549, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 5 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "rapid response, to an emergency.", "start": 1509.255, "end": 1511.755 }, { "text": "You could you could, you know, drop a cell phone to somebody that's in a hot, you know, hostage situation and you wanna talk to them.", "start": 1511.975, "end": 1519.38 }, { "text": "Or, you know, a med kit to, SWAT, member that that got injured and you wanna drop them a blowout kit.", "start": 1519.38, "end": 1526.6 }, { "text": "There's all kinds of things like that that you can do.", "start": 1526.74, "end": 1529.175 } ], "start": 1509.255, "end": 1529.175, "num_words": 63.0, "speaker": 3 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "That was Chris Gibson.", "start": 1529.255, "end": 1530.295 }, { "text": "He's the UAS program manager for the North Carolina Department of Transportation.", "start": 1530.295, "end": 1534.0751 }, { "text": "That was at the league's recent forum on drones when he was prompted to talk more about applications.", "start": 1534.535, "end": 1539.1951 }, { "text": "Inevitably, the question of privacy came up.", "start": 1540.055, "end": 1542.7151 }, { "text": "Representative John Torbett, a member of the North Carolina General Assembly who has a long history with UAS technology and has helped with state legislation related to it, put the question of privacy to a lawyer on the panel named Steven Hartsell.", "start": 1543.41, "end": 1555.1901 } ], "start": 1529.255, "end": 1555.1901, "num_words": 83.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "By the way, if Torbit's voice sounds familiar, he was also on the episode with Nicole DuPuy about infrastructure.", "start": 1555.545, "end": 1560.525 }, { "text": "Anyway, here's Torbit and then you'll hear from Steven Hartzell.", "start": 1561.145, "end": 1563.785 } ], "start": 1555.545, "end": 1563.785, "num_words": 29.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Steven, privacy is always gonna be a concern of the public.", "start": 1563.785, "end": 1566.8451 }, { "text": "I can attest to that working with the legislation that was put into place.", "start": 1567.145, "end": 1570.69 }, { "text": "That was the number one concern that we heard from the general citizen.", "start": 1570.69, "end": 1574.15 }, { "text": "But a proxy is always gonna be a concern of the public when discussing UAS or drone activities.", "start": 1575.25, "end": 1580.13 }, { "text": "What role will cities likely play in protecting reasonable expectations of privacy against widespread drone visibility in neighborhoods, shopping centers, parks, etcetera?", "start": 1580.13, "end": 1590.685 } ], "start": 1563.785, "end": 1590.685, "num_words": 78.0, "speaker": 6 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And just a heads up, Hartzell is really detailed in his answer.", "start": 1590.985, "end": 1594.2051 }, { "text": "I'm gonna play the whole thing unedited.", "start": 1594.425, "end": 1596.125 } ], "start": 1590.985, "end": 1596.125, "num_words": 19.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So privacy is one of these issues that I think is gonna keep on coming up.", "start": 1596.4099, "end": 1599.5299 }, { "text": "When we were putting this panel together, one of my co panelists sitting up at this table said, man, are we really still talking about privacy and drones?", "start": 1599.85, "end": 1606.89 }, { "text": "I mean, haven't we gotten past that?", "start": 1606.89, "end": 1608.49 }, { "text": "And the short answer is no.", "start": 1608.49, "end": 1609.85 }, { "text": "And part of the reason is, there's been public perception over the last few to several years as drones have really come into public consciousness that, the drones can be used and are being used for certain nefarious purposes to invade people's privacy.", "start": 1609.85, "end": 1625.1 } ], "start": 1596.4099, "end": 1625.1, "num_words": 100.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And the example that's always given is somebody sunbathing in the backyard, somebody's daughter sunbathing.", "start": 1625.1, "end": 1629.6 }, { "text": "And the truth of the matter is that there some of that perception is, maybe faulty and maybe faulty and maybe a little bit, unnecessary, but I think there are also very legitimate privacy concerns.", "start": 1629.98, "end": 1641.6749 }, { "text": "And one of the things that wigs people out is when we get new technology that we haven't had before, that's mobile technology, and that perhaps can even be used in a manner that is surreptitious, that causes people legitimate concern.", "start": 1641.6749, "end": 1654.29 }, { "text": "And you think back to cell phones fifteen years ago when people put when companies put cameras in cell phones, and the first question was, what are we gonna do with that camera?", "start": 1654.29, "end": 1662.915 }, { "text": "Because we're really concerned it's a mobile small device.", "start": 1663.395, "end": 1665.795 } ], "start": 1625.1, "end": 1665.795, "num_words": 133.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Now here we are sixteen years later, and at least two major cell phone manufacturers market their phones on the basis of how good their camera is.", "start": 1665.795, "end": 1673.795 }, { "text": "So in that fifteen year period, we've become accustomed to these devices, and I think that over time, the public will become more accustomed to, to drones, and the privacy concerns, I think, will diminish some.", "start": 1673.795, "end": 1685.1101 }, { "text": "So what does that really mean though for for local governments in terms of regulating in that area?", "start": 1685.17, "end": 1690.7101 }, { "text": "And my view and our firm represents both commercial enterprises and also represents some local governments in various matters.", "start": 1691.0901, "end": 1698.705 }, { "text": "And so my view of that issue for local governments is we need to be really, really careful and deliberate about thinking whether or not we really need to regulate in the area of privacy.", "start": 1698.9249, "end": 1709.16 } ], "start": 1665.795, "end": 1709.16, "num_words": 135.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "As representative Torbett mentioned, there's already a state law that governs many aspects of privacy that is very drone specific.", "start": 1710.26, "end": 1717.88 }, { "text": "In addition, there's a bunch of other state law claims that can be brought against any kind of technology that abates privacy, whether it's a criminal keeping Tom statue or whether it's, cyber stalking.", "start": 1718.42, "end": 1730.505 }, { "text": "There are these other mechanisms that are already in place that are largely technologically neutral.", "start": 1731.045, "end": 1735.545 }, { "text": "And I think that sometimes when you take, take laws and ordinances and you target them at a specific technology, I think it can have unintended consequences.", "start": 1735.9601, "end": 1746.3 }, { "text": "So I'd be careful at the local level about about considering passing and adopting ordinances that relate to privacy, as it as it impacts UAS operations.", "start": 1746.4401, "end": 1759.385 } ], "start": 1710.26, "end": 1759.385, "num_words": 122.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Now that that sort of puts aside the issue, and, of course, again, to representative Torpitt's credit, the the state statute also talks a great deal about, what law enforcement can do, and that's sort of a separate issue.", "start": 1759.4451, "end": 1770.93 }, { "text": "There's fourth amendment concerns with any sort of government, use of of surveillance equipment.", "start": 1770.93, "end": 1777.4249 }, { "text": "But again, from a technologically neutral standpoint, those are important issues, and we should be careful about, pulling out drones and targeting them specifically.", "start": 1777.4249, "end": 1785.9249 }, { "text": "The other thing that I wanna mention about that is, in North Carolina, and North Carolina is not unique in this regard, there's an interesting preemption wrinkle that occurs with privacy.", "start": 1787.025, "end": 1799.4099 }, { "text": "So any local government that is looking at privacy issues or any other type of regulation that, feds is left for feds is left for the states to regulate.", "start": 1799.5499, "end": 1819.31 } ], "start": 1759.4451, "end": 1819.31, "num_words": 137.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "At the state level, and again, North Carolina is not unique in this regard, North Carolina, the constitution established that the general assembly would create political subdivisions such as municipalities and counties, and the appellate courts in North Carolina have consistently said that those political subdivisions only have the authority that is given to them by the general assembly.", "start": 1820.09, "end": 1841.495 }, { "text": "They don't they don't get the residual authority like states do vis a vis the the federal government.", "start": 1841.495, "end": 1845.61 }, { "text": "So there's also a potential issue for any local government that wants to regulate privacy and drones because we already have a state statute that's on point.", "start": 1845.99, "end": 1855.3501 }, { "text": "And then the final thing I'll say is think about how difficult it would be as well as a practical matter for folks to know and understand what all the various privacy regulations are if we have an ordinance by ordinance basis from community to community.", "start": 1855.3501, "end": 1868.205 }, { "text": "I live in Chapel Hill.", "start": 1868.505, "end": 1869.945 } ], "start": 1820.09, "end": 1869.945, "num_words": 155.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I live in, actually, in Carrboro.", "start": 1869.945, "end": 1871.0249 }, { "text": "I have a Chapel Hill address.", "start": 1871.0249, "end": 1872.42 }, { "text": "Where Chapel Hill begins, Carrboro ends, I couldn't tell you.", "start": 1873.14, "end": 1876.52 }, { "text": "But if those two, local governments were to adopt privacy ordinances that were conflicting or inconsistent, it would be really difficult as a practical matter for folks to understand and be able to abide by them.", "start": 1876.5801, "end": 1889.255 }, { "text": "So my counsel would be, let's let's sort of pull back the reins on any local privacy regulation.", "start": 1889.255, "end": 1895.675 } ], "start": 1869.945, "end": 1895.675, "num_words": 76.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Without a doubt, there are a thousand other burning questions that you have that we probably haven't answered in this episode.", "start": 1896.935, "end": 1902.8201 }, { "text": "And, frankly, it would take hours and hours of talk to even crack the surface.", "start": 1902.8201, "end": 1907.48 }, { "text": "The forum that you've been hearing samples from was nearly three hours long, and it could have easily gone the entire day.", "start": 1907.7001, "end": 1913.475 }, { "text": "It covered a lot, and I'll post a link to the entire thing, a video, in the show notes at sound cloud dot com slash municipal equation.", "start": 1913.475, "end": 1921.015 }, { "text": "But before we go, Nicole, where do you see this all headed?", "start": 1921.635, "end": 1924.9149 } ], "start": 1896.935, "end": 1924.9149, "num_words": 97.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know, it it's kind of a theme in local government to envision the year 2030 and wonder where we'll be.", "start": 1924.9149, "end": 1930.62 }, { "text": "This might be a big dreamy question, but, you know, where do you see drones headed?", "start": 1931.4, "end": 1934.86 } ], "start": 1924.9149, "end": 1934.86, "num_words": 37.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Well, I wish I had a crystal ball.", "start": 1935.5599, "end": 1937.82 }, { "text": "I think that it's really anybody's guess.", "start": 1938.855, "end": 1941.495 }, { "text": "I'm certainly will see a lot of the applications that have already been discussed are already there's already R and D on a lot of these things.", "start": 1941.495, "end": 1948.9349 }, { "text": "I think that we'll see those come into fruition.", "start": 1948.9349, "end": 1951.115 }, { "text": "But I think this is also unique because we don't know really what cluttered airspace even looks like in cities or in communities.", "start": 1951.49, "end": 1959.03 } ], "start": 1935.5599, "end": 1959.03, "num_words": 74.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So with other technological innovations, say transportation network companies like Uber and Lyft.", "start": 1959.5701, "end": 1965.75 }, { "text": "Cities were challenged by the platform, and how to regulate that.", "start": 1966.0751, "end": 1971.135 }, { "text": "But we're intimately familiar with what it's like for a car to drive around in the city atmosphere.", "start": 1971.275, "end": 1975.855 }, { "text": "We don't know what it looks like for a drone to be flying around amongst the airspace or, like, whizzing past our heads.", "start": 1975.995, "end": 1982.53 }, { "text": "So we can't even really imagine what this might look like, to have our airspace and cities inhabited by drone.", "start": 1982.75, "end": 1989.5701 } ], "start": 1959.5701, "end": 1989.5701, "num_words": 85.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And as I mentioned, most of the regulation to date has been aimed at at safety and more geared toward recreational operation.", "start": 1990.27, "end": 1997.915 }, { "text": "So who knows what this is going to look like in even twenty years?", "start": 1998.6951, "end": 2002.295 }, { "text": "I think that there are a lot of industry private sector companies who are really looking to capitalize on this.", "start": 2002.535, "end": 2008.635 }, { "text": "And and anybody's guess what it's actually gonna look like in terms of the public sphere, how it's gonna be regulated by cities, and what it's gonna make our cities look like physically.", "start": 2009.2401, "end": 2021.3401 } ], "start": 1990.27, "end": 2021.3401, "num_words": 89.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Do you think that's maybe why the FAA rules left some gray areas?", "start": 2022.555, "end": 2025.995 }, { "text": "Because maybe there's some areas that we simply just don't know how to address yet?", "start": 2025.995, "end": 2029.4551 } ], "start": 2022.555, "end": 2029.4551, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Oh, certainly.", "start": 2029.915, "end": 2030.635 }, { "text": "I mean, I think this is gonna be a living and breathing issue for sure.", "start": 2030.635, "end": 2034.155 }, { "text": "We're gonna have to keep coming back to the drawing board as we see how things play out.", "start": 2034.4751, "end": 2038.6299 } ], "start": 2029.915, "end": 2038.6299, "num_words": 35.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Look up the report from the National League of Cities.", "start": 2047.1699, "end": 2049.3499 }, { "text": "Again, it's called Cities and Drones.", "start": 2049.375, "end": 2051.555 }, { "text": "I'll include a link with the show notes where you can find it at nlc.0rg or just Google search the title.", "start": 2051.855, "end": 2058.035 }, { "text": "Final word from Steve Josick from the town of Manio.", "start": 2059.535, "end": 2062.355 } ], "start": 2047.1699, "end": 2062.355, "num_words": 47.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 2062.47, "end": 2062.71 }, { "text": "Like, it's a burgeoning technology and and burgeoning field.", "start": 2062.71, "end": 2066.17 }, { "text": "There's still a lot of questions that are are coming up and the answers are changing, which makes it it's difficult because you're trying to hit a moving target.", "start": 2066.23, "end": 2074.17 }, { "text": "What you learned six months ago might not be true six months from then.", "start": 2075.19, "end": 2079.575 } ], "start": 2062.47, "end": 2079.575, "num_words": 53.0, "speaker": 4 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I welcome your comments.", "start": 2083.475, "end": 2084.835 }, { "text": "If you work for a city or a town that operates a UAS, a UAV, a drone, whatever you wanna call it, get up with me and tell me your story.", "start": 2084.835, "end": 2091.655 }, { "text": "Tell me what you've run into, what solutions you have, unique ideas you have for the use of a drone.", "start": 2091.66, "end": 2096.72 }, { "text": "Let me know.", "start": 2096.78, "end": 2097.68 }, { "text": "I'm at bbrown@nclm.org.", "start": 2097.74, "end": 2101.0999 } ], "start": 2083.475, "end": 2101.0999, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And on Twitter, the handle is muniequation.", "start": 2101.0999, "end": 2103.76 }, { "text": "That's at m u n I equation.", "start": 2104.46, "end": 2106.72 }, { "text": "This podcast is made possible by the North Carolina League of Municipalities online at nclm.0rg.", "start": 2107.2952, "end": 2113.635 }, { "text": "All episodes of the podcast are found there or at soundcloud.com/municipalequation.", "start": 2113.7751, "end": 2118.5952 }, { "text": "If you have an idea for a future episode, reach out to me.", "start": 2118.895, "end": 2121.75 } ], "start": 2101.0999, "end": 2121.75, "num_words": 53.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Again, that's bbrown@nclm.org.", "start": 2121.75, "end": 2125.27 }, { "text": "My name is Ben Brown.", "start": 2125.27, "end": 2126.55 }, { "text": "Talk to you again soon.", "start": 2126.55, "end": 2127.77 } ], "start": 2121.75, "end": 2127.77, "num_words": 13.0, "speaker": 0 } ] }, "entities": null, "translations": null, "topics": null } ], "detected_language": "" } ], "utterances": [ { "start": 3.6799998, "end": 8.5, "confidence": 0.9654599, "channel": 0, "transcript": "On this episode of Municipal Equation. 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Where drones intersect with local government? 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"speaker": 0, "id": "7a467e19-9133-4cd4-8153-2936c2d75e11" }, { "start": 24.564999, "end": 26.199999, "confidence": 0.98509365, "channel": 0, "transcript": "questions, questions, questions.", "words": [ { "word": "questions", "start": 24.564999, "end": 25.064999, "confidence": 0.97145855, "punctuated_word": "questions,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.62581384 }, { "word": "questions", "start": 25.3, "end": 25.699999, "confidence": 0.98573923, "punctuated_word": "questions,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.62581384 }, { "word": "questions", "start": 25.699999, "end": 26.199999, "confidence": 0.99808323, "punctuated_word": "questions.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.62581384 } ], "speaker": 0, "id": "e5350b5a-9ddf-443c-93fb-b7e054e4e700" }, { "start": 26.66, "end": 41.595, "confidence": 0.98110294, "channel": 0, "transcript": "We get into it with a series of experts from the public and private sectors on where this is all going and how local government might adopt 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That's 12,400,000", "words": [ { "word": "results", "start": 98.02, "end": 98.52, "confidence": 0.9914576, "punctuated_word": "results.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.55869615 }, { "word": "that's", "start": 98.565, "end": 98.805, "confidence": 0.99939454, "punctuated_word": "That's", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.55869615 }, { "word": "12,400,000", "start": 98.805, "end": 99.925, "confidence": 0.9993005, "punctuated_word": "12,400,000", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.55869615 } ], "speaker": 0, "id": "7607f7b0-7de7-483a-9c45-e0f45ec70d19" }, { "start": 99.925, "end": 102.025, "confidence": 0.9894595, "channel": 0, "transcript": "videos somehow related to drones.", "words": [ { "word": "videos", "start": 99.925, "end": 100.425, "confidence": 0.998539, "punctuated_word": "videos", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.55869615 }, { "word": "somehow", "start": 100.565, "end": 100.965004, "confidence": 0.95818216, "punctuated_word": "somehow", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.55869615 }, { "word": "related", "start": 100.965004, "end": 101.365005, "confidence": 0.99956185, "punctuated_word": "related", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.55869615 }, { "word": "to", "start": 101.365005, "end": 101.525, "confidence": 0.9990362, "punctuated_word": "to", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.55869615 }, { "word": "drones", "start": 101.525, "end": 102.025, "confidence": 0.9919785, "punctuated_word": "drones.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.55869615 } ], "speaker": 0, "id": "a934bb4f-0985-4eb3-bf95-894fa464c0d6" }, { "start": 102.405, "end": 104.425, "confidence": 0.9453999, "channel": 0, "transcript": "There's one that's gotten 11,700,000", "words": [ { "word": "there's", "start": 102.405, "end": 102.565, "confidence": 0.925025, "punctuated_word": "There's", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.5045012 }, { "word": "one", "start": 102.565, "end": 102.725006, "confidence": 0.9967278, "punctuated_word": "one", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.5045012 }, { "word": "that's", "start": 102.725006, "end": 102.805, "confidence": 0.99148977, "punctuated_word": "that's", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.5045012 }, { "word": "gotten", "start": 102.805, "end": 103.125, "confidence": 0.8159584, "punctuated_word": "gotten", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.5045012 }, { "word": "11,700,000", "start": 103.125, "end": 104.425, "confidence": 0.9977983, "punctuated_word": "11,700,000", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.5045012 } ], "speaker": 0, "id": "38737e0a-a5ac-403a-81f8-413d07c46403" }, { "start": 104.565, "end": 111.925, "confidence": 0.95565933, "channel": 0, "transcript": "views titled drone used to catch cheating wife, which actually wasn't very fun to watch and I don't advise you look it up. 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