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A topic we've heard a lot about for quite some time, sure. But this time, we hear it from a guy who helped it happen for an entire state. My name is Ben Brown, and this is Municipal Equation, a podcast about cities and towns and changing times from the North Carolina League of Municipalities. Episode 34. Last week, I was in Greenville, North Carolina for City Vision twenty seventeen. That's the annual conference of the North Carolina League of Municipalities. About 900 people were there. City managers, urban planners, clerks, mayors, town council members, contractors, legislators, all kinds of people coming together from hundreds of municipalities around the state. And then there was this guy. So I wonder how when you say municipalities, what what is exactly because all of y'all come together. When you're all together from different cities, what are you talking about? Like, how bad my city suck? I mean That's Sinbad. The Sinbad you're absolutely familiar with. He was the Friday night feature and almost his entire set amazingly was riffed, improvised. And you might say, well, he does have scripted material, but he makes it look improvised. Like, no, seriously. He masterfully riffed up pretty much a full set by playing off specifics from the crowd. The point of City Vision, the conference, or one of the points anyway, is to solve problems by trading good ideas, and Sindbad had a few. So I'm gonna know how I'm gonna help you out tonight, Mike. Anybody got any questions with the city's things they're trying to do, I can fix it in thirteen seconds. This is not a deep process. We think too much. We have too many committees. We have too many meetings. I get right to the point in thirteen seconds. Anyway, if some it's looking for a problem in your city, trying to verify, I fix it in thirteen seconds. Eat more roads. Yes. Build them. You fixed that problem right there. Did you? Y'all had a meeting for two days, had a little potluck dinner. Can we eat more roads? Okay. What are we gonna do? I don't know. You don't need to get money, just start building them. Find a place you wanna roll, get some people that's not working, give them some shovels, give them some equipment. By the time the state find out what you're doing, they gotta give you money. They done checked out the whole earth. Just start building and they will come. Every wife here knows what I'm talking about. If you want something, start it. If you want a man to do something, start taking somebody to the garage. Wait. Wait. Wait. And I have finished it. Just stop cutting trees down. All kind of stuff. What are you doing? We're building roads. You don't have a permit. Help us. Just like I was driving here from Charlotte. They got roads being built but nobody working. Just some string. And one dude. Okay. Come on. There was nobody in there. There was nobody there. They started and ran out of money like, okay. There's far as we know that lane. But it was a good lane for about 300 feet. A great lane. A strong lane. It saved us five minutes. What else? Flooding. Flooding. Flooding. Flooding. You wanna stop it? You can't be near water. You gotta get away from the water. Get away from the water. Are you on your water? Damn. That's not that deep water. Damn. No fuzz. This is what y'all do every year. You think it's gonna rise up? I don't know. Be cool. Thanks to Sinbad for being cool about letting me use a little bit of his set here. No lie. It was entirely great and everybody had a blast. So earlier in the program, people got to hear from individuals who've been through something or experienced something that can relate to cities and towns of any size. So by walking us through their experience, they can teach us something we might be able to apply in our own town, which is exactly what this podcast is about. One of the featured speakers was Sean Lilly Wilson, who's a prominent figure in the world of beer and brewing. His company is Fullsteam Brewery, based in Durham, North Carolina. So Sean was gonna give a session on the intersection of breweries and local economic development at the same time that Christopher Gergen, who you've heard on this podcast before, was supposed to give a session on innovation. And Christopher said he thought that was a little bit of unfair scheduling. I was saying to the organizers here, it's a little, you know, a little unfair that I'm gonna be leading a whole conversation around innovation, ecosystem development, and he's leading a conversation about beer. That's that is unfair and unimportant. But Sean has also told me that he's not gonna have any beer at his session, so it kind of equalizes the playing field. Yeah. No beer there, but a ton of insight. It started with a brief q and a between Sean and Edenton mayor Roland Vaughn. Quick note, I wasn't able to record off the mixing board for this little part right here So just know that the audio quality improves dramatically in the main overall piece that we're gonna build up to here. Here's mayor Vaughn. Thank you, sir. I know you've been, and continue to be heavily involved with the craft brew industry in the state. So in talking with your colleagues, are there common denominators that they're looking for as far as cultural shifts and as far as expectations of city and town governments? What are these things that we're doing and can do to help facilitate the growth of the craft brew industry in North Carolina? Well, there's, about two fifty breweries in North Carolina, up from about 24 a, a decade ago. It's a significant growth. There's if there's two fifty breweries, there's, 500 business models out there amongst those breweries. Each one of us has a different approach, a different target market, a different, methodology, a different means of scrapping and trying to make, things work. But common, I think, to all of them is the desire to really work in connection with the community. I can't think of a single brewery that just wants to make beer and squirrel away and and and be in isolation. Beer is the beverage of the community. It's a beverage of gathering. It's a great, small d democratic beverage. And, there's a reason you find it in urban areas. There's a reason you find it in small towns, that it's a it's it's a way to, create community and bring folks together. And I think you're seeing a lot of success, in North Carolina at the local level with municipalities that really embrace that and get that and encourage it, wanna see that fast tracked or to figure out problems that, you know, sometimes these first, steps, a new brewery comes in and they have to reinvent the wheel and they have to reinterpret code and all that. In general, and I'll speak more on this in the session, we found, a very collaborative environment, basically at the local level to help, facilitate this, this growth that we've seen. Looking at it from the economic development perspective, does it surprise you that craft breweries have become such catalyst for downtown development? I mean, in a way, it has. When you see we're seven years old and, you know, we we had we were I don't know. There's maybe 40 breweries at the time, and and and now it's it's, six times that. It's surprising to see the growth, for sure. And the level of engagement, it's it's been wonderful to to see, basically, I can travel throughout, North Carolina and be within just a few miles of not only a brewery, but a, major contributor to the economic, climate of that region. It's just been fantastic to see that across North Carolina, we have this entrepreneurial spirit that, that like Chris talked about, there's those energies, that then create change. Now I think the challenge for beer is something that I'll address a little bit in my presentation is that we don't wanna put too much stock in beer. Consumers are fickle, and the industry's maturing. And so what I'm starting to think about, even though I'm don't get me wrong, I'm I'm dedicated to full steam, but I'm already starting to think about what else can help, build economic opportunity and agricultural opportunity in this post tobacco south. And I think a few of us are in the beer industry or thinking about what more can we do. And maybe it's not in the alcohol industry. Maybe it's on the policy side. Maybe it's, giving back. I think there's a a good number of us in the beer industry that are that are looking at that at the at the big big macro level. I forgot to mention that the Greenville Public Safety Pipes and Drums group opened up the conference. So while we listen to a little bit of that, let me explain what makes Sean so special here. Sean, whose title with full steam today is chief executive optimist, was a huge part of a campaign in the early two thousands called Pop the Cat. So here's what that is. Since the nineteen thirties, it had been illegal to brew beer in North Carolina above 6% alcohol. You couldn't do it, couldn't sell it, it's an old prohibition era law. So at a 6% cap, that meant you really couldn't get a worldly variety of beer here. Like, not even IPAs in any pure sense. So you had pretty much just the mainstream companies on the shelves at the grocery stores, the big names, and not a lot of variety between them. What Sean and his fellow coordinators did with Pop the Cap was successfully make the argument that it's not about getting IPAs or any other particular kind of beer, it's about the opportunity. So this campaign was able to lobby and get a bill through the legislature and to the governor's desk to raise the ABV from 6% to 15%, which opened up a new world of opportunity for consumers. And logically, anyone who wanted to make beer to sell them. North Carolina today has a huge craft beer scene. Asheville is a national standout. That region alone has 60 breweries, according to the Asheville Citizen Times newspaper. New breweries are still opening up all the time. And this extends from the work of Sean and his fellow organizers and lobbyist at Pop the Cap. So here's where I say that I'm gonna lay back for the rest of the episode and let you hear from Sean in his own words with just a little bit of editing for time. Of course, I gotta acknowledge one thing real quick. We realize not everyone, not every community has a positive perspective on alcoholic beverages. There are, for example, dry counties that vote to stay dry. So whatever an individual community wants in this regard is perfectly respectable. But again, what we're focusing on here is less about those dynamics and more about economic development and revitalization and an angle on community. And how breweries have made a mark on that. About Fullsteam. We're a, brewery, that's family friendly, dog friendly, all welcome. It's, it's a come as you are kind of place that's been around since 2010. When we first launched, we broke all kinds of stereotypes and norms. We, allowed dogs into the space. We were kid friendly until 09:00. All these things were really new and unusual for, for North Carolina and and much of The United States, at the time. Now it's kind of a known factor, and depending on where you live and how the regulations are enforced or interpreted, there's, you know or what the business wants to do, there there's, you know, as I mentioned earlier, 250 different business plans in different, markets. But ours remains, very intentional. We wanna be a, all welcome center for Durham. We wanna be the community center for what we think is a dynamic, diverse, multicultural, and progressive city. We talk a lot about what makes us unique at Fullsteam, and I don't wanna talk too much about our business, but it does frame the presentation itself. We believe first and foremost that beer is an agent of economic and social change, that we, have a distinct niche in this use of local ingredients. And number three, and this will take some explaining I know, we believe that the best things in life are equal parts beautiful and stupid. I don't mean, like, stupid like dumb. I just mean, like, a sort of goofy simplicity, a silliness, a a an ability to get up in front of you and call myself chief executive optimist. It's beer. It should be fun. It should be a beverage of community. I think one of our challenges in a maturing beer industry is that it gets really serious, and we have enthusiasts that wanna take it really seriously, and that's great and all. But let's not forget that this beverage is is about is about fun, and like I said, little d democracy. So let's talk a little bit about, what our area looked like, before full steam started. So we first really started sourcing or, seeking a location in 2008. We, were build out in 2009, and we launched in 2010. And so these these two shots were kind of the best example of what I could see of what happened to Durham and Okay. So to cut in right here, Sean is showing a side by side set of images of the same place then and now. Then was a bit ratty and unkempt, vacant looking, not necessarily desirable. And then now, pretty fantastic, Really desirable. A place with modern fun businesses, a nice atmosphere, greenery, a place you wanna be. Those of you who have seen areas like this in your communities with a craft brewery or some kind of other anchor, you you'll it'll look familiar. But this is the warehouse area of Durham, North Carolina. Basically, tobacco supplemental tobacco services, be it, repair shops for vehicles that were used in transport of, of tobacco or, tobacco warehouses and auction houses themselves. This is a, an area that I literally drove through around this time with my wife and my kids in the back, much younger then saying, oh my god. This area. I don't know. Right? And so that's it now. Now that's during the day. Google, you know, Google Maps didn't give me, and I didn't think about having this, taking a shot at night time where people are hanging out and, and but this place lights up, and it's not because of Fullsteam. It's because of Motorco across the street, music venues because of the pit restaurant up there up the way. And soon, that, building at the end there, which has been dormant for about twenty years, mister Hutchins is finally bringing that to life, and, there's gonna be activity in that building as well. Where the parking lot is on the left, there's going to be a, eight story office complex. Yeah. I I think we fair to say we were the first movers in this area, and, we've seen an amazing transformation. I I read this this, this thing from, this article from James Fallows at The Atlantic that that summarized it nicely. It was the last one, number 11 of 11 signs of cities will succeed. A town that has craft breweries also has a certain kind of entrepreneur and a critical mass of mainly young, except for me. Now James Fallows is saying that, but I'll apply it to me as well, except for me, customers and even that entrepreneur. You may think I'm joking, but just try to find an exception. So that really hearkens back to Chris' presentation that there's these catalysts, these, there's an energy. There's people that have stayed in a community. They maybe grew up there, left for a while, wanna come back, or they're like me, new to an area, and just just really have a desire to to contribute and to make their mark. But, number 11 on this very diverse list of all these different elements of what makes signs a city will succeed, you know, that was the last one, and he was making a point there. And, and, really, it's not just one brewery. These brewing districts and this was a research paper on the professional, in the professional geographer. Brewing districts benefit both manufacturer, that's us, the beer maker, and consumer. And so what do we mean by that? I was in Charlotte earlier this week, at a beer dinner at the Asbury at the Dunhill Hotel. I, later that night went and and hung out, in a district that has about six different breweries, within walking distance. The little side note story, my regulator, for one of the beers that I was trying to pour wasn't working, and Sycamore Brewing, came to the rescue and lent me one. Right? That's the kind of network effect that you don't really see in very many industries. You know, if I'm a pharmaceutical company and I'm having a a problem with some kind of, you know, this and that, I'm I I won't I won't go into details on it, but they're not gonna yeah. Let me help you out. You know? Right? But Sycamore was at the ready to loan me a, a regulator so my event could continue. That's why I love the craft beer industry. That's why these brewing districts make a difference because we can share from each other, share, not only insights into the industry, but, consumer base themselves, as people test out different, you know, like, favorites and they have their own ones that they, they prefer over others or they're testing things out, and, of course, for beer tourism. Oh, and then civic pride and identity, that's a big one too. I mean, there's it's one thing to have a brewery, in a in a city, or in a town, but when you have, 10 of them in a little district like in Asheville that's called South, you know, South Slope, that that's a branding opportunity, and that's an ident an identifier, and those network effect effects can go, a long, long way. So case studies, I mentioned Asheville. Asheville so I'm gonna kinda start big with some, about four or five examples and go smaller. So we'll start with the biggest, Beer City USA, Asheville, North Carolina. It's, it's earned that title just, from amazing energy and, the ability to really draw not only consumers, but small businesses and, big big craft brewers in. So I hope you all know that Sierra Nevada and, New Belgium and Oscar Blues, are all in that area. Of course, Oscar Blues is in Brevard, but in the mountains let's talk about Sierra Nevada. That place is like 15 Costcos packed together. It's just gigantic. I call it the Why Bother facility. If you go in there as a craft brewer, you're like, jeez, why bother? They did it all. But it's their second facility. Their, original one is in Chico, California, and this is their East Coast outpost, and it's just fantastic. It's, it's a major economic driver for the region and a beautiful, beautiful space. More on my level and kinda why I got into the business are these, smaller breweries that each have their their niche, and you can see it on the map here. That clustering in the South Slope, has, had some really great economic benefits for the region, for that, community, for the, for beer tourism, and then for certain breweries like, Wicked Weed, you know, they they sold to Anheuser Busch. They they are no longer technically a craft brewery, but, they saw that success and and, decided to to, you know, reap the rewards of of their hard work. So that's a, you know, a town, a city of Asheville doing amazing things. Our experience at Fullsteam, we have had, as I've mentioned, proactive, positive communication with city officials, both in our beginning as as as we've considered, expansion. But the city does know that, Durham's hot right now, and it's expensive, And we might not be able to, to locate our second, you know, our expansion needs there. But, so there's only so much they can do. We recognize that, and it's not in my personality to to try to curry special favor. One of the challenges and, you know, you you hear this all the time, but one of the challenges of homespun businesses like ours is, we don't we're growing and we're building, hiring people, but we are not coming in from out of state and, and locating. And so the job gen the job creation benefits sometimes aren't afforded to us, these indigenous breweries, and that could be sometimes frustrating, but we also recognize that that's just the way things have been structured. So we'll see where our expansion goes. All I know is that we're running out of space, and we need to, increase capacity. Then we're gonna go on to smaller levels and smaller examples. Kinston. Many of you may know Kinston, from A Chef's Life, and Vivian Howard, the chef and the farmer restaurant has done amazing things for that, that beautiful town. But also Mother Earth Brewing Company has been a a big catalyst in that region, not only from the brewery itself, but, from the other projects that the owner is involved in, and, most recently, a motor lodge that, is branded Mother Earth. It's just really cool looking. I'm looking forward to staying there someday. It's just fun to see how these entrepreneurial minds go beyond thinking about just beer to say, how can we extend our brand and how can we do more, with, other partners and other people who care deeply about, you know, in this case, Kinston and and, making a big difference, and I think for the most part, a very, very positive one for that region. Good. And then I have to I have to circle around here and realize that I have, because I wanna read something to you that came from Ashborough and Four Saints. And, the, owner, Joel, does a better job than I ever could of, of explaining his firsthand experience. So forgive me as I just read it out, but I think this is just a great, he just did such a fantastic job. I wanna read his words verbatim. So Ashborough, well, I'm I'm just gonna read it. So I asked him, you know, what was it what's it what's it been like for you? He says, the impact of us being in downtown has been the story we've seen in multi across multiple breweries in North Carolina. Increased tourism, more people downtown, increased media through beer, especially when a traveler beer writer comes through, and partnerships with other businesses and charities. With Asheboro specifically, it was a town that was dry for fifty years up to 2008. We're demonstrating the idea that craft means culture and appreciation and community. This past weekend, we had a lot large Oktoberfest celebration to raise money for the family crisis center. It benefited the charity, the downtown business, Asheboro's quality of life, and Asheboro's reputation outside of Randolph County for those who attended and shared their experience. This city extended these graces because in 2008, Asheboro was rocked by a few things. The national recession caused multiple layoffs and closings, and it was named one of the, quote, fastest dying towns in America by Forbes Magazine, with sixty minutes even coming to town to feature Ashbrew. I'm just gonna say it. These two things piss people off. There was a revelation that we were not going to be saved by corporations and CEOs. We were going to be saved by the entrepreneurial spirit that had made this country, state, and town what it once was. People began investing in themselves and their ideas and their drive. The town, city of Asheboro was ready to prove these blowhards at Forbes wrong. The city saw a local brewery as an economic, cultural, and community driver. It was time to shake things up, and they put their faith in us. And just so it happens in 2016, the Atlantic noted having a local brewery as one of 11 keys to having a successful city, one of those things that I had mentioned. So now we're at a we're we're a stop when the city is courting new businesses. Let me read that again. We are a stop. We're a destination when the city is courting new businesses to demonstrate the quality of life of Asheboro, the fun we have, the kind of corporate citizens Asheboro has, and the potential for coming decades. Pretty cool. Right? So good for them, good for the city of Asheboro. Specifically, on what the, what they did to help facilitate, they changed zoning laws to allow a brewery downtown instead of just wait. What are we doing? I want to say, I'm David Smith. I'm the mayor of Ashborough. Hey. What he said is exactly right. Awesome. It has been a game changer for downtown Ashborough. Great. Thank you. Great. Thank you. That's the name. Love that. That's great. Y'all change zoning laws to allow a brewery downtown instead of, limiting it to a warehouse district, extended water services, and reduce the brewer's water cost. Alright. So some challenges. It's not all, you know, rosy. There's definitely some challenges. I'm gonna put aside the, and we can maybe chat if people wanna talk about it, but I did not list the sort of the moral qualms about, you know, beer and alcohol and all of that. I'm biased, I'll admit. But I do have, you know, ongoing concerns on a few things, that that I I I wanna bring to your attention, we can discuss openly, that of gentrification. One of the one of the interesting things that we've seen in the beer industry is that, beer itself, breweries themselves, want to locate in buildings with good bones, tall ceilings, good infrastructure, good power, ready access to, to water. Typically, these aren't, environments where there's a whole lot of people living. If I had to go back to that, slide, rigs being gear, it wasn't that, densely populated. We had a decision to make. We we wanted to be when we first launched Fullsteam, we wanted to, be walkable where I said, I want people to show up on a Tuesday, and I wanna be able to fit a forklift. Those were my criteria for our for our business plan. That's not a universal. Peep different breweries are gonna tell you different things. But for us, I wanted to fit a forklift and I wanna have people show up on a Tuesday. Tuesday, because it's a slower day of the week, I figure if we can get people on a Tuesday, then we're located close enough to, where people can get to us easily enough to merit being open seven days a week. We're also and this is our specific example. We are, a a block behind us is, a duplex, quad buildings, kinda older buildings that were in state of disrepair. And the typical narrative is those become, like, high end condos, and there are some of those things going on. But one of the things that I love about Durham, is that that, that complex, that set of about 18 buildings or so is, and has been for the last five years a, a home for people with adults with, developmental disabilities who are transitioning, to live with caretakers, or on their own with community assistance. It's in a an an intentional community that is, very much a part of the community at large. So you'll see those neighbors come in and hang out and, and enjoy full steam. That makes me really happy, but I also don't want to ignore the fact that, there is the risk of displacement, as people want to live downtown and as rents increase and, and and, living becomes more scarce. I don't have answers to that, but I'd be, remiss if I didn't at least recognize that that's something that we should all be openly addressing and trying to, trying to tackle. I think Durham has done a very good job of that, and I hope I'm hopeful for the future. The fickleness of the consumer. Right now, beer is hot. Will it be hot in five or ten years? I I hope so. I mean, the Sumerians discovered beer five thousand years ago, so it has a pretty good track record. But, you know, the consumers, taste ebb and flow. And, you know, it was just thirty, forty years ago when, we had, I think something like 13 breweries in America, and now we have nearly 5,000. Right? So who knows where that's gonna go? The maturity of the beer industry goes hand in hand, and I think that, simply means that we're gonna have increased competition and this, like, the the friendly spirit, that we, enjoy, right now, may, be at risk of eroding, and those brewing districts may feel some tensions where there's a little bit of infighting and all that. I will tell you from my experience that, with a a really good brewery opening up in Durham, it's only, forced us to get better and to do innovate and do more things. So I'm in that, competition, is a a very good thing for for us. Opportunities. Beers to beverages, celebration, democracy, equality. I've said that a few times. Hopefully, that means it's sinking in. I believe it, and I hope you do too. The Modern Brewery is the city's welcome center, its heartbeat. Really, that's what we're seeing is, I'm a big fan of Robert Putnam. Bowling Alone is a book that really influenced me in, social capital, and I think you're seeing that, beer, in place in breweries that have a focus on on premise gathering, done right, and most of them are, it's it's a center for for all that's a new era community center. We need more of those in our lives. We live in a connected yet disconnected world, and, I think beer is a a great way to bring people together. And, you know, for those environments that that wanna have a family friendly, setting, My personal opinion is that it, that that's a great way to show, a responsible consumption rather than hiding it into into a corner. I mean, my kids grew up watching us as responsible adults in in this in this responsible environment, and I I think that's leading as they get to age where they're legally allowed to drink alcohol, been a good thing for them to witness firsthand. Opportunities. Breweries are exerting, increased political influence. I mean, you now have this is not a North Carolina example, but you now have a former brewer, in Colorado who is mayor, now governor, and purported to be a candidate for 2020 for, for, possibly running for a governor. So, now that's one one guy, but, you know, there's a good number of us that care deeply about things other than beer. And, there's good bit of them who just care about beer, but that's another story altogether. I do believe that there's an opportunity for communities, for leaders, for catalyst to, to bring together makers, to, foster creativity, hometown pride, making of products, making of goods that reflect that sense of place. I think one thing that, we're we're longing for is, that and and and I know you all deeply I assume most of you keep care very deeply in your service to the community. You care very deeply about where you're from or where you who you serve, your the people you serve, your community. Right? And and there are people like you, people like us who want to make things that come from our town, that come from our region, that come from something specific or special that that is unique to, you know, be it Hertford County or Wayne County or anywhere in between. You know? It's, that that's where I see a lot of opportunity. Current example of that. But if we can figure out ways to network these, passions and, and and and this manufacturing, some of it will have an agricultural bent, Some of it will have a hands a handcrafted bent. Some of it might be restaurants. But, I do believe that, us together in in in collectives, in little campuses even, could be a really cool thing for for communities. You can probably tell that that's not very well fleshed out. I don't make any apologies for that, but it's the genesis of an idea. So hopefully, even me going through this exercise and sharing it with you will help it percolate in my brain and maybe even some conversations that we'll, we'll have, you know, that that during this time together, we'll be able to build on that and take it to the next level. So with that, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thanks for listening. Thanks to Sean Lilly Wilson for letting me repurpose his presentation here. Thanks to Sinbad for being cool about it too. There's more material from this conference, a lot more material from City Vision 2017. That's gonna go into future episodes because it was really, really, really good, and it benefited everyone who attended. As always, let me know if you have any ideas for any episodes. You can email me at bbrown@nclm.org or tweet to me. I'm at muniequation. That's at m u n I equation on Twitter. We're on Instagram as well. Please tell your friends and colleagues, help spread the word, subscribe on iTunes. We would love a friendly review. Also, shout out to my friends at the National League of Cities, specifically Angelina Panatteri, Tom Martin, and President Matt Zoen, who's a member of the Cleveland, Ohio City Council. Thanks for being at the conference. It was awesome talking. Also, congratulations to Jacksonville, North Carolina Mayor Pro Tem, Michael Lazara, on his new presidency at the League of Municipalities, Washington City Councilman William Pitt on his vice presidency, and the rest of the new board of directors, whom I've had a really good time getting to know. And, of course, immediate past president Bob Metheny. You've heard him on the podcast before. He's been in public office for more than four decades, which is amazing. And a special shout out to Parmole mayor, Jerry McCrary. Always fun talking with you. Municipal Equation comes out biweekly and is a production of the North Carolina League of Municipalities. We'll talk to you next time. 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And number three, and this will take some explaining, I know, we believe that the best things in life are equal parts beautiful and stupid.\n\nSpeaker 0: The intersection of craft brewing, community, and economic development. A topic we've heard a lot about for quite some time, sure. But this time, we hear it from a guy who helped it happen for an entire state. My name is Ben Brown, and this is Municipal Equation, a podcast about cities and towns and changing times from the North Carolina League of Municipalities. Episode 34.\n\nLast week, I was in Greenville, North Carolina for City Vision twenty seventeen. That's the annual conference of the North Carolina League of Municipalities. About 900 people were there. City managers, urban planners, clerks, mayors, town council members, contractors, legislators, all kinds of people coming together from hundreds of municipalities around the state. And then there was this guy.\n\nSpeaker 2: So I wonder how when you say municipalities, what what is exactly because all of y'all come together. When you're all together from different cities, what are you talking about? Like, how bad my city suck? I mean\n\nSpeaker 0: That's Sinbad. The Sinbad you're absolutely familiar with. He was the Friday night feature and almost his entire set amazingly was riffed, improvised. And you might say, well, he does have scripted material, but he makes it look improvised. Like, no, seriously.\n\nHe masterfully riffed up pretty much a full set by playing off specifics from the crowd. The point of City Vision, the conference, or one of the points anyway, is to solve problems by trading good ideas, and Sindbad had a few.\n\nSpeaker 2: So I'm gonna\n\nSpeaker 3: know how\n\nSpeaker 2: I'm gonna help you out tonight, Mike. Anybody got any questions with the city's things they're trying to do, I can fix it in thirteen seconds. This is not a deep process. We think too much. We have too many committees.\n\nWe have too many meetings. I get right to the point in thirteen seconds. Anyway, if some it's looking for a problem in your city, trying to verify, I fix it in thirteen seconds. Eat more roads. Yes.\n\nBuild them. You fixed that problem right there. Did you? Y'all had a meeting for two days, had a little potluck dinner.\n\nSpeaker 3: Can we eat more\n\nSpeaker 2: roads? Okay. What are we gonna\n\nSpeaker 3: do? I don't\n\nSpeaker 2: know. You don't need to get money, just start building them. Find a place you wanna roll, get some people that's not working, give them some shovels, give them some equipment. By the time the state find out what you're doing, they gotta give you money. They done checked out the whole earth.\n\nJust start building and they will come. Every wife here knows what I'm talking about. If you want something, start it. If you want a man to do something, start taking somebody to the garage. Wait.\n\nWait. Wait. And I have finished it. Just stop cutting trees down. All kind of stuff.\n\nWhat are you doing? We're building roads. You don't have a permit. Help us. Just like I was driving here from Charlotte.\n\nThey got roads being built but nobody working. Just some string. And one dude. Okay. Come on.\n\nThere was nobody in there. There was nobody there. They started and ran out of money like, okay. There's far as we know that lane. But it was a good lane for about 300 feet.\n\nA great lane. A strong lane. It saved us five minutes. What else? Flooding.\n\nFlooding. Flooding. Flooding. You wanna stop it? You can't be near water.\n\nYou gotta get away from the water. Get away from the water. Are you on your water? Damn. That's not that deep water.\n\nDamn. No fuzz. This is what y'all do every year. You think it's gonna rise up?\n\nSpeaker 3: I don't know. Be cool.\n\nSpeaker 0: Thanks to Sinbad for being cool about letting me use a little bit of his set here. No lie. It was entirely great and everybody had a blast. So earlier in the program, people got to hear from individuals who've been through something or experienced something that can relate to cities and towns of any size. So by walking us through their experience, they can teach us something we might be able to apply in our own town, which is exactly what this podcast is about.\n\nOne of the featured speakers was Sean Lilly Wilson, who's a prominent figure in the world of beer and brewing. His company is Fullsteam Brewery, based in Durham, North Carolina. So Sean was gonna give a session on the intersection of breweries and local economic development at the same time that Christopher Gergen, who you've heard on this podcast before, was supposed to give a session on innovation. And Christopher said he thought that was a little bit of unfair scheduling.\n\nSpeaker 4: I was saying to the organizers here, it's a little, you know, a little unfair that I'm gonna be leading a whole conversation around innovation, ecosystem development, and he's leading a conversation about beer. That's that is unfair and unimportant. But Sean has also told me that he's not gonna have any beer at his session, so it kind of equalizes the playing field.\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah. No beer there, but a ton of insight. It started with a brief q and a between Sean and Edenton mayor Roland Vaughn. Quick note, I wasn't able to record off the mixing board for this little part right here So just know that the audio quality improves dramatically in the main overall piece that we're gonna build up to here. Here's mayor Vaughn.\n\nSpeaker 3: Thank you, sir. I know you've been, and continue to be heavily involved with the craft brew industry in the state. So in talking with your colleagues, are there common denominators that they're looking for as far as cultural shifts and as far as expectations of city and town governments? What are these things that we're doing and can do to help facilitate the growth of the craft brew industry in North Carolina?\n\nSpeaker 1: Well, there's, about two fifty breweries in North Carolina, up from about 24 a, a decade ago. It's a significant growth. There's if there's two fifty breweries, there's, 500 business models out there amongst those breweries. Each one of us has a different approach, a different target market, a different, methodology, a different means of scrapping and trying to make, things work. But common, I think, to all of them is the desire to really work in connection with the community.\n\nI can't think of a single brewery that just wants to make beer and squirrel away and and and be in isolation. Beer is the beverage of the community. It's a beverage of gathering. It's a great, small d democratic beverage. And, there's a reason you find it in urban areas.\n\nThere's a reason you find it in small towns, that it's a it's it's a way to, create community and bring folks together. And I think you're seeing a lot of success, in North Carolina at the local level with municipalities that really embrace that and get that and encourage it, wanna see that fast tracked or to figure out problems that, you know, sometimes these first, steps, a new brewery comes in and they have to reinvent the wheel and they have to reinterpret code and all that. In general, and I'll speak more on this in the session, we found, a very collaborative environment, basically at the local level to help, facilitate this, this growth\n\nSpeaker 3: that we've seen. Looking at it from the economic development perspective, does it surprise you that craft breweries have become such catalyst for downtown development?\n\nSpeaker 1: I mean, in a way, it has. When you see we're seven years old and, you know, we we had we were I don't know. There's maybe 40 breweries at the time, and and and now it's it's, six times that. It's surprising to see the growth, for sure. And the level of engagement, it's it's been wonderful to to see, basically, I can travel throughout, North Carolina and be within just a few miles of not only a brewery, but a, major contributor to the economic, climate of that region.\n\nIt's just been fantastic to see that across North Carolina, we have this entrepreneurial spirit that, that like Chris talked about, there's those energies, that then create change. Now I think the challenge for beer is something that I'll address a little bit in my presentation is that we don't wanna put too much stock in beer. Consumers are fickle, and the industry's maturing. And so what I'm starting to think about, even though I'm don't get me wrong, I'm I'm dedicated to full steam, but I'm already starting to think about what else can help, build economic opportunity and agricultural opportunity in this post tobacco south. And I think a few of us are in the beer industry or thinking about what more can we do.\n\nAnd maybe it's not in the alcohol industry. Maybe it's on the policy side. Maybe it's, giving back. I think there's a a good number of us in the beer industry that are that are looking at that at the at the big big macro\n\nSpeaker 2: level.\n\nSpeaker 0: I forgot to mention that the Greenville Public Safety Pipes and Drums group opened up the conference. So while we listen to a little bit of that, let me explain what makes Sean so special here. Sean, whose title with full steam today is chief executive optimist, was a huge part of a campaign in the early two thousands called Pop the Cat. So here's what that is. Since the nineteen thirties, it had been illegal to brew beer in North Carolina above 6% alcohol.\n\nYou couldn't do it, couldn't sell it, it's an old prohibition era law. So at a 6% cap, that meant you really couldn't get a worldly variety of beer here. Like, not even IPAs in any pure sense. So you had pretty much just the mainstream companies on the shelves at the grocery stores, the big names, and not a lot of variety between them. What Sean and his fellow coordinators did with Pop the Cap was successfully make the argument that it's not about getting IPAs or any other particular kind of beer, it's about the opportunity.\n\nSo this campaign was able to lobby and get a bill through the legislature and to the governor's desk to raise the ABV from 6% to 15%, which opened up a new world of opportunity for consumers. And logically, anyone who wanted to make beer to sell them. North Carolina today has a huge craft beer scene. Asheville is a national standout. That region alone has 60 breweries, according to the Asheville Citizen Times newspaper.\n\nNew breweries are still opening up all the time. And this extends from the work of Sean and his fellow organizers and lobbyist at Pop the Cap. So here's where I say that I'm gonna lay back for the rest of the episode and let you hear from Sean in his own words with just a little bit of editing for time. Of course, I gotta acknowledge one thing real quick. We realize not everyone, not every community has a positive perspective on alcoholic beverages.\n\nThere are, for example, dry counties that vote to stay dry. So whatever an individual community wants in this regard is perfectly respectable. But again, what we're focusing on here is less about those dynamics and more about economic development and revitalization and an angle on community. And how breweries have made a mark on that.\n\nSpeaker 3: About\n\nSpeaker 1: Fullsteam. We're a, brewery, that's family friendly, dog friendly, all welcome. It's, it's a come as you are kind of place that's been around since 2010. When we first launched, we broke all kinds of stereotypes and norms. We, allowed dogs into the space.\n\nWe were kid friendly until 09:00. All these things were really new and unusual for, for North Carolina and and much of The United States, at the time. Now it's kind of a known factor, and depending on where you live and how the regulations are enforced or interpreted, there's, you know or what the business wants to do, there there's, you know, as I mentioned earlier, 250 different business plans in different, markets. But ours remains, very intentional. We wanna be a, all welcome center for Durham.\n\nWe wanna be the community center for what we think is a dynamic, diverse, multicultural, and progressive city. We talk a lot about what makes us unique at Fullsteam, and I don't wanna talk too much about our business, but it does frame the presentation itself. We believe first and foremost that beer is an agent of economic and social change, that we, have a distinct niche in this use of local ingredients. And number three, and this will take some explaining I know, we believe that the best things in life are equal parts beautiful and stupid. I don't mean, like, stupid like dumb.\n\nI just mean, like, a sort of goofy simplicity, a silliness, a a an ability to get up in front of you and call myself chief executive optimist. It's beer. It should be fun. It should be a beverage of community. I think one of our challenges in a maturing beer industry is that it gets really serious, and we have enthusiasts that wanna take it really seriously, and that's great and all.\n\nBut let's not forget that this beverage is is about is about fun, and like I said, little d democracy. So let's talk a little bit about, what our area looked like, before full steam started. So we first really started sourcing or, seeking a location in 2008. We, were build out in 2009, and we launched in 2010. And so these these two shots were kind of the best example of what I could see of what happened to Durham and Okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: So to cut in right here, Sean is showing a side by side set of images of the same place then and now. Then was a bit ratty and unkempt, vacant looking, not necessarily desirable. And then now, pretty fantastic, Really desirable. A place with modern fun businesses, a nice atmosphere, greenery, a place you wanna be.\n\nSpeaker 1: Those of you who have seen areas like this in your communities with a craft brewery or some kind of other anchor, you you'll it'll look familiar. But this is the warehouse area of Durham, North Carolina. Basically, tobacco supplemental tobacco services, be it, repair shops for vehicles that were used in transport of, of tobacco or, tobacco warehouses and auction houses themselves. This is a, an area that I literally drove through around this time with my wife and my kids in the back, much younger then saying, oh my god. This area.\n\nI don't know. Right? And so that's it now. Now that's during the day. Google, you know, Google Maps didn't give me, and I didn't think about having this, taking a shot at night time where people are hanging out and, and but this place lights up, and it's not because of Fullsteam.\n\nIt's because of Motorco across the street, music venues because of the pit restaurant up there up the way. And soon, that, building at the end there, which has been dormant for about twenty years, mister Hutchins is finally bringing that to life, and, there's gonna be activity in that building as well. Where the parking lot is on the left, there's going to be a, eight story office complex. Yeah. I I think we fair to say we were the first movers in this area, and, we've seen an amazing transformation.\n\nI I read this this, this thing from, this article from James Fallows at The Atlantic that that summarized it nicely. It was the last one, number 11 of 11 signs of cities will succeed. A town that has craft breweries also has a certain kind of entrepreneur and a critical mass of mainly young, except for me. Now James Fallows is saying that, but I'll apply it to me as well, except for me, customers and even that entrepreneur. You may think I'm joking, but just try to find an exception.\n\nSo that really hearkens back to Chris' presentation that there's these catalysts, these, there's an energy. There's people that have stayed in a community. They maybe grew up there, left for a while, wanna come back, or they're like me, new to an area, and just just really have a desire to to contribute and to make their mark. But, number 11 on this very diverse list of all these different elements of what makes signs a city will succeed, you know, that was the last one, and he was making a point there. And, and, really, it's not just one brewery.\n\nThese brewing districts and this was a research paper on the professional, in the professional geographer. Brewing districts benefit both manufacturer, that's us, the beer maker, and consumer. And so what do we mean by that? I was in Charlotte earlier this week, at a beer dinner at the Asbury at the Dunhill Hotel. I, later that night went and and hung out, in a district that has about six different breweries, within walking distance.\n\nThe little side note story, my regulator, for one of the beers that I was trying to pour wasn't working, and Sycamore Brewing, came to the rescue and lent me one. Right? That's the kind of network effect that you don't really see in very many industries. You know, if I'm a pharmaceutical company and I'm having a a problem with some kind of, you know, this and that, I'm I I won't I won't go into details on it, but they're not gonna yeah. Let me help you out.\n\nYou know? Right? But Sycamore was at the ready to loan me a, a regulator so my event could continue. That's why I love the craft beer industry. That's why these brewing districts make a difference because we can share from each other, share, not only insights into the industry, but, consumer base themselves, as people test out different, you know, like, favorites and they have their own ones that they, they prefer over others or they're testing things out, and, of course, for beer tourism.\n\nOh, and then civic pride and identity, that's a big one too. I mean, there's it's one thing to have a brewery, in a in a city, or in a town, but when you have, 10 of them in a little district like in Asheville that's called South, you know, South Slope, that that's a branding opportunity, and that's an ident an identifier, and those network effect effects can go, a long, long way. So case studies, I mentioned Asheville. Asheville so I'm gonna kinda start big with some, about four or five examples and go smaller. So we'll start with the biggest, Beer City USA, Asheville, North Carolina.\n\nIt's, it's earned that title just, from amazing energy and, the ability to really draw not only consumers, but small businesses and, big big craft brewers in. So I hope you all know that Sierra Nevada and, New Belgium and Oscar Blues, are all in that area. Of course, Oscar Blues is in Brevard, but in the mountains let's talk about Sierra Nevada. That place is like 15 Costcos packed together. It's just gigantic.\n\nI call it the Why Bother facility. If you go in there as a craft brewer, you're like, jeez, why bother? They did it all. But it's their second facility. Their, original one is in Chico, California, and this is their East Coast outpost, and it's just fantastic.\n\nIt's, it's a major economic driver for the region and a beautiful, beautiful space. More on my level and kinda why I got into the business are these, smaller breweries that each have their their niche, and you can see it on the map here. That clustering in the South Slope, has, had some really great economic benefits for the region, for that, community, for the, for beer tourism, and then for certain breweries like, Wicked Weed, you know, they they sold to Anheuser Busch. They they are no longer technically a craft brewery, but, they saw that success and and, decided to to, you know, reap the rewards of of their hard work. So that's a, you know, a town, a city of Asheville doing amazing things.\n\nOur experience at Fullsteam, we have had, as I've mentioned, proactive, positive communication with city officials, both in our beginning as as as we've considered, expansion. But the city does know that, Durham's hot right now, and it's expensive, And we might not be able to, to locate our second, you know, our expansion needs there. But, so there's only so much they can do. We recognize that, and it's not in my personality to to try to curry special favor. One of the challenges and, you know, you you hear this all the time, but one of the challenges of homespun businesses like ours is, we don't we're growing and we're building, hiring people, but we are not coming in from out of state and, and locating.\n\nAnd so the job gen the job creation benefits sometimes aren't afforded to us, these indigenous breweries, and that could be sometimes frustrating, but we also recognize that that's just the way things have been structured. So we'll see where our expansion goes. All I know is that we're running out of space, and we need to, increase capacity. Then we're gonna go on to smaller levels and smaller examples. Kinston.\n\nMany of you may know Kinston, from A Chef's Life, and Vivian Howard, the chef and the farmer restaurant has done amazing things for that, that beautiful town. But also Mother Earth Brewing Company has been a a big catalyst in that region, not only from the brewery itself, but, from the other projects that the owner is involved in, and, most recently, a motor lodge that, is branded Mother Earth. It's just really cool looking. I'm looking forward to staying there someday. It's just fun to see how these entrepreneurial minds go beyond thinking about just beer to say, how can we extend our brand and how can we do more, with, other partners and other people who care deeply about, you know, in this case, Kinston and and, making a big difference, and I think for the most part, a very, very positive one for that region.\n\nGood. And then I have to I have to circle around here and realize that I have, because I wanna read something to you that came from Ashborough and Four Saints. And, the, owner, Joel, does a better job than I ever could of, of explaining his firsthand experience. So forgive me as I just read it out, but I think this is just a great, he just did such a fantastic job. I wanna read his words verbatim.\n\nSo Ashborough, well, I'm I'm just gonna read it. So I asked him, you know, what was it what's it what's it been like for you? He says, the impact of us being in downtown has been the story we've seen in multi across multiple breweries in North Carolina. Increased tourism, more people downtown, increased media through beer, especially when a traveler beer writer comes through, and partnerships with other businesses and charities. With Asheboro specifically, it was a town that was dry for fifty years up to 2008.\n\nWe're demonstrating the idea that craft means culture and appreciation and community. This past weekend, we had a lot large Oktoberfest celebration to raise money for the family crisis center. It benefited the charity, the downtown business, Asheboro's quality of life, and Asheboro's reputation outside of Randolph County for those who attended and shared their experience. This city extended these graces because in 2008, Asheboro was rocked by a few things. The national recession caused multiple layoffs and closings, and it was named one of the, quote, fastest dying towns in America by Forbes Magazine, with sixty minutes even coming to town to feature Ashbrew.\n\nI'm just gonna say it. These two things piss people off. There was a revelation that we were not going to be saved by corporations and CEOs. We were going to be saved by the entrepreneurial spirit that had made this country, state, and town what it once was. People began investing in themselves and their ideas and their drive.\n\nThe town, city of Asheboro was ready to prove these blowhards at Forbes wrong. The city saw a local brewery as an economic, cultural, and community driver. It was time to shake things up, and they put their faith in us. And just so it happens in 2016, the Atlantic noted having a local brewery as one of 11 keys to having a successful city, one of those things that I had mentioned. So now we're at a we're we're a stop when the city is courting new businesses.\n\nLet me read that again. We are a stop. We're a destination when the city is courting new businesses to demonstrate the quality of life of Asheboro, the fun we have, the kind of corporate citizens Asheboro has, and the potential for coming decades. Pretty cool. Right?\n\nSo good for them, good for the city of Asheboro. Specifically, on what the, what they did to help facilitate, they changed zoning laws to allow a brewery downtown instead of just wait. What are we doing?\n\nSpeaker 3: I want to say, I'm David Smith. I'm the mayor of Ashborough. Hey. What he said is exactly right. Awesome.\n\nIt has been a game changer for downtown Ashborough. Great. Thank you. Great. Thank you.\n\nThat's the name.\n\nSpeaker 1: Love that. That's great. Y'all change zoning laws to allow a brewery downtown instead of, limiting it to a warehouse district, extended water services, and reduce the brewer's water cost. Alright. So some challenges.\n\nIt's not all, you know, rosy. There's definitely some challenges. I'm gonna put aside the, and we can maybe chat if people wanna talk about it, but I did not list the sort of the moral qualms about, you know, beer and alcohol and all of that. I'm biased, I'll admit. But I do have, you know, ongoing concerns on a few things, that that I I I wanna bring to your attention, we can discuss openly, that of gentrification.\n\nOne of the one of the interesting things that we've seen in the beer industry is that, beer itself, breweries themselves, want to locate in buildings with good bones, tall ceilings, good infrastructure, good power, ready access to, to water. Typically, these aren't, environments where there's a whole lot of people living. If I had to go back to that, slide, rigs being gear, it wasn't that, densely populated. We had a decision to make. We we wanted to be when we first launched Fullsteam, we wanted to, be walkable where I said, I want people to show up on a Tuesday, and I wanna be able to fit a forklift.\n\nThose were my criteria for our for our business plan. That's not a universal. Peep different breweries are gonna tell you different things. But for us, I wanted to fit a forklift and I wanna have people show up on a Tuesday. Tuesday, because it's a slower day of the week, I figure if we can get people on a Tuesday, then we're located close enough to, where people can get to us easily enough to merit being open seven days a week.\n\nWe're also and this is our specific example. We are, a a block behind us is, a duplex, quad buildings, kinda older buildings that were in state of disrepair. And the typical narrative is those become, like, high end condos, and there are some of those things going on. But one of the things that I love about Durham, is that that, that complex, that set of about 18 buildings or so is, and has been for the last five years a, a home for people with adults with, developmental disabilities who are transitioning, to live with caretakers, or on their own with community assistance. It's in a an an intentional community that is, very much a part of the community at large.\n\nSo you'll see those neighbors come in and hang out and, and enjoy full steam. That makes me really happy, but I also don't want to ignore the fact that, there is the risk of displacement, as people want to live downtown and as rents increase and, and and, living becomes more scarce. I don't have answers to that, but I'd be, remiss if I didn't at least recognize that that's something that we should all be openly addressing and trying to, trying to tackle. I think Durham has done a very good job of that, and I hope I'm hopeful for the future. The fickleness of the consumer.\n\nRight now, beer is hot. Will it be hot in five or ten years? I I hope so. I mean, the Sumerians discovered beer five thousand years ago, so it has a pretty good track record. But, you know, the consumers, taste ebb and flow.\n\nAnd, you know, it was just thirty, forty years ago when, we had, I think something like 13 breweries in America, and now we have nearly 5,000. Right? So who knows where that's gonna go? The maturity of the beer industry goes hand in hand, and I think that, simply means that we're gonna have increased competition and this, like, the the friendly spirit, that we, enjoy, right now, may, be at risk of eroding, and those brewing districts may feel some tensions where there's a little bit of infighting and all that. I will tell you from my experience that, with a a really good brewery opening up in Durham, it's only, forced us to get better and to do innovate and do more things.\n\nSo I'm in that, competition, is a a very good thing for for us. Opportunities. Beers to beverages, celebration, democracy, equality. I've said that a few times. Hopefully, that means it's sinking in.\n\nI believe it, and I hope you do too. The Modern Brewery is the city's welcome center, its heartbeat. Really, that's what we're seeing is, I'm a big fan of Robert Putnam. Bowling Alone is a book that really influenced me in, social capital, and I think you're seeing that, beer, in place in breweries that have a focus on on premise gathering, done right, and most of them are, it's it's a center for for all that's a new era community center. We need more of those in our lives.\n\nWe live in a connected yet disconnected world, and, I think beer is a a great way to bring people together. And, you know, for those environments that that wanna have a family friendly, setting, My personal opinion is that it, that that's a great way to show, a responsible consumption rather than hiding it into into a corner. I mean, my kids grew up watching us as responsible adults in in this in this responsible environment, and I I think that's leading as they get to age where they're legally allowed to drink alcohol, been a good thing for them to witness firsthand. Opportunities. Breweries are exerting, increased political influence.\n\nI mean, you now have this is not a North Carolina example, but you now have a former brewer, in Colorado who is mayor, now governor, and purported to be a candidate for 2020 for, for, possibly running for a governor. So, now that's one one guy, but, you know, there's a good number of us that care deeply about things other than beer. And, there's good bit of them who just care about beer, but that's another story altogether. I do believe that there's an opportunity for communities, for leaders, for catalyst to, to bring together makers, to, foster creativity, hometown pride, making of products, making of goods that reflect that sense of place. I think one thing that, we're we're longing for is, that and and and I know you all deeply I assume most of you keep care very deeply in your service to the community.\n\nYou care very deeply about where you're from or where you who you serve, your the people you serve, your community. Right? And and there are people like you, people like us who want to make things that come from our town, that come from our region, that come from something specific or special that that is unique to, you know, be it Hertford County or Wayne County or anywhere in between. You know? It's, that that's where I see a lot of opportunity.\n\nCurrent example of that. But if we can figure out ways to network these, passions and, and and and this manufacturing, some of it will have an agricultural bent, Some of it will have a hands a handcrafted bent. Some of it might be restaurants. But, I do believe that, us together in in in collectives, in little campuses even, could be a really cool thing for for communities. You can probably tell that that's not very well fleshed out.\n\nI don't make any apologies for that, but it's the genesis of an idea. So hopefully, even me going through this exercise and sharing it with you will help it percolate in my brain and maybe even some conversations that we'll, we'll have, you know, that that during this time together, we'll be able to build on that and take it to the next level. So with that, thank you very much. Appreciate it.\n\nSpeaker 0: Thanks for listening. Thanks to Sean Lilly Wilson for letting me repurpose his presentation here. Thanks to Sinbad for being cool about it too. There's more material from this conference, a lot more material from City Vision 2017. That's gonna go into future episodes because it was really, really, really good, and it benefited everyone who attended.\n\nAs always, let me know if you have any ideas for any episodes. You can email me at bbrown@nclm.org or tweet to me. I'm at muniequation. That's at m u n I equation on Twitter. We're on Instagram as well.\n\nPlease tell your friends and colleagues, help spread the word, subscribe on iTunes. We would love a friendly review. Also, shout out to my friends at the National League of Cities, specifically Angelina Panatteri, Tom Martin, and President Matt Zoen, who's a member of the Cleveland, Ohio City Council. Thanks for being at the conference. It was awesome talking.\n\nAlso, congratulations to Jacksonville, North Carolina Mayor Pro Tem, Michael Lazara, on his new presidency at the League of Municipalities, Washington City Councilman William Pitt on his vice presidency, and the rest of the new board of directors, whom I've had a really good time getting to know. And, of course, immediate past president Bob Metheny. You've heard him on the podcast before. He's been in public office for more than four decades, which is amazing. And a special shout out to Parmole mayor, Jerry McCrary.\n\nAlways fun talking with you. Municipal Equation comes out biweekly and is a production of the North Carolina League of Municipalities. We'll talk to you next time. This is Ben Brown.", "paragraphs": [ { "sentences": [ { "text": "On this episode of Municipal Equation.", "start": 4.24, "end": 6.48 } ], "start": 4.24, "end": 6.48, "num_words": 6.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We believe first and foremost that beer is an agent of economic and social change, that we, have a distinct niche in this use of local ingredients.", "start": 6.64, "end": 14.985 }, { "text": "And number three, and this will take some explaining, I know, we believe that the best things in life are equal parts beautiful and stupid.", "start": 15.285, "end": 20.985 } ], "start": 6.64, "end": 20.985, "num_words": 52.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "The intersection of craft brewing, community, and economic development.", "start": 21.285, "end": 25.544998 }, { "text": "A topic we've heard a lot about for quite some time, sure.", "start": 26.244999, "end": 29.119999 }, { "text": "But this time, we hear it from a guy who helped it happen for an entire state.", "start": 29.259998, "end": 33.36 }, { "text": "My name is Ben Brown, and this is Municipal Equation, a podcast about cities and towns and changing times from the North Carolina League of Municipalities.", "start": 33.66, "end": 40.64 }, { "text": "Episode 34.", "start": 42.855, "end": 43.995003 } ], "start": 21.285, "end": 43.995003, "num_words": 66.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Last week, I was in Greenville, North Carolina for City Vision twenty seventeen.", "start": 78.905, "end": 82.845 }, { "text": "That's the annual conference of the North Carolina League of Municipalities.", "start": 82.905, "end": 86.13 }, { "text": "About 900 people were there.", "start": 86.99, "end": 88.77 }, { "text": "City managers, urban planners, clerks, mayors, town council members, contractors, legislators, all kinds of people coming together from hundreds of municipalities around the state.", "start": 89.07, "end": 100.305 }, { "text": "And then there was this guy.", "start": 101.885, "end": 103.325005 } ], "start": 78.905, "end": 103.325005, "num_words": 59.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So I wonder how when you say municipalities, what what is exactly because all of y'all come together.", "start": 103.325005, "end": 108.125 }, { "text": "When you're all together from different cities, what are you talking about?", "start": 108.125, "end": 110.685005 }, { "text": "Like, how bad my city suck?", "start": 110.685005, "end": 111.96 }, { "text": "I mean", "start": 112.04, "end": 112.62 } ], "start": 103.325005, "end": 112.62, "num_words": 38.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "That's Sinbad.", "start": 114.36, "end": 115.82 }, { "text": "The Sinbad you're absolutely familiar with.", "start": 116.52, "end": 118.78 }, { "text": "He was the Friday night feature and almost his entire set amazingly was riffed, improvised.", "start": 119.24, "end": 124.7 }, { "text": "And you might say, well, he does have scripted material, but he makes it look improvised.", "start": 125.685005, "end": 129.945 }, { "text": "Like, no, seriously.", "start": 130.085, "end": 131.045 } ], "start": 114.36, "end": 131.045, "num_words": 42.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "He masterfully riffed up pretty much a full set by playing off specifics from the crowd.", "start": 131.045, "end": 136.025 }, { "text": "The point of City Vision, the conference, or one of the points anyway, is to solve problems by trading good ideas, and Sindbad had a few.", "start": 137.33, "end": 144.85 } ], "start": 131.045, "end": 144.85, "num_words": 42.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So I'm gonna", "start": 144.85, "end": 145.33 } ], "start": 144.85, "end": 145.33, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "know how", "start": 145.33, "end": 145.45001 } ], "start": 145.33, "end": 145.45001, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 3 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I'm gonna help you out tonight, Mike.", "start": 145.45001, "end": 146.77 }, { "text": "Anybody got any questions with the city's things they're trying to do, I can fix it in thirteen seconds.", "start": 146.77, "end": 151.75 }, { "text": "This is not a deep process.", "start": 151.755, "end": 153.13501 }, { "text": "We think too much.", "start": 154.155, "end": 154.875 }, { "text": "We have too many committees.", "start": 154.875, "end": 155.91501 } ], "start": 145.45001, "end": 155.91501, "num_words": 41.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We have too many meetings.", "start": 155.91501, "end": 156.875 }, { "text": "I get right to the point in thirteen seconds.", "start": 156.875, "end": 158.795 }, { "text": "Anyway, if some it's looking for a problem in your city, trying to verify, I fix it in thirteen seconds.", "start": 158.795, "end": 163.535 }, { "text": "Eat more roads.", "start": 164.49, "end": 165.53 }, { "text": "Yes.", "start": 165.53, "end": 165.93001 } ], "start": 155.91501, "end": 165.93001, "num_words": 38.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Build them.", "start": 165.93001, "end": 166.67 }, { "text": "You fixed that problem right there.", "start": 171.21, "end": 172.49 }, { "text": "Did you?", "start": 172.49, "end": 173.23001 }, { "text": "Y'all had a meeting for two days, had a little potluck dinner.", "start": 174.17, "end": 176.89 } ], "start": 165.93001, "end": 176.89, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Can we eat more", "start": 176.89, "end": 177.61 } ], "start": 176.89, "end": 177.61, "num_words": 4.0, "speaker": 3 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "roads?", "start": 177.61, "end": 178.01001 }, { "text": "Okay.", "start": 178.01001, "end": 178.51001 }, { "text": "What are we gonna", "start": 178.755, "end": 179.655 } ], "start": 177.61, "end": 179.655, "num_words": 6.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "do?", "start": 180.455, "end": 180.955 }, { "text": "I don't", "start": 181.755, "end": 183.55501 } ], "start": 180.455, "end": 183.55501, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 3 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "know.", "start": 184.35501, "end": 184.675 }, { "text": "You don't need to get money, just start building them.", "start": 184.675, "end": 187.255 }, { "text": "Find a place you wanna roll, get some people that's not working, give them some shovels, give them some equipment.", "start": 188.35501, "end": 194.35 }, { "text": "By the time the state find out what you're doing, they gotta give you money.", "start": 194.73, "end": 197.21 }, { "text": "They done checked out the whole earth.", "start": 197.21, "end": 198.83 } ], "start": 184.35501, "end": 198.83, "num_words": 53.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Just start building and they will come.", "start": 200.81, "end": 204.03 }, { "text": "Every wife here knows what I'm talking about.", "start": 208.525, "end": 209.965 }, { "text": "If you want something, start it.", "start": 209.965, "end": 211.50499 }, { "text": "If you want a man to do something, start taking somebody to the garage.", "start": 211.965, "end": 214.44499 }, { "text": "Wait.", "start": 214.44499, "end": 214.685 } ], "start": 200.81, "end": 214.685, "num_words": 36.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wait.", "start": 214.685, "end": 214.845 }, { "text": "Wait.", "start": 214.845, "end": 215.345 }, { "text": "And I have finished it.", "start": 216.20499, "end": 217.665 }, { "text": "Just stop cutting trees down.", "start": 218.605, "end": 220.28499 }, { "text": "All kind of stuff.", "start": 220.28499, "end": 221.345 } ], "start": 214.685, "end": 221.345, "num_words": 16.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "What are you doing?", "start": 221.6, "end": 222.16 }, { "text": "We're building roads.", "start": 222.16, "end": 223.12001 }, { "text": "You don't have a permit.", "start": 223.12001, "end": 224.18001 }, { "text": "Help us.", "start": 224.24, "end": 224.98001 }, { "text": "Just like I was driving here from Charlotte.", "start": 227.44, "end": 229.7 } ], "start": 221.6, "end": 229.7, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "They got roads being built but nobody working.", "start": 230.0, "end": 232.1 }, { "text": "Just some string.", "start": 237.095, "end": 238.155 }, { "text": "And one dude.", "start": 239.175, "end": 240.155 }, { "text": "Okay.", "start": 242.855, "end": 243.255 }, { "text": "Come on.", "start": 243.255, "end": 243.995 } ], "start": 230.0, "end": 243.995, "num_words": 17.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "There was nobody in there.", "start": 245.815, "end": 247.435 }, { "text": "There was nobody there.", "start": 250.40999, "end": 250.43666 }, { "text": "They started and ran out of money like, okay.", "start": 250.43666, "end": 250.81 }, { "text": "There's far as we know that lane.", "start": 250.81, "end": 252.43 }, { "text": "But it was a good lane for about 300 feet.", "start": 253.53, "end": 255.53 } ], "start": 245.815, "end": 255.53, "num_words": 35.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "A great lane.", "start": 255.53, "end": 256.51 }, { "text": "A strong lane.", "start": 256.57, "end": 257.55 }, { "text": "It saved us five minutes.", "start": 258.72998, "end": 260.11 }, { "text": "What else?", "start": 261.37, "end": 262.11 }, { "text": "Flooding.", "start": 262.41, "end": 262.91 } ], "start": 255.53, "end": 262.91, "num_words": 14.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Flooding.", "start": 263.13, "end": 263.63 }, { "text": "Flooding.", "start": 266.445, "end": 266.525 }, { "text": "Flooding.", "start": 266.525, "end": 267.025 }, { "text": "You wanna stop it?", "start": 267.32498, "end": 268.625 }, { "text": "You can't be near water.", "start": 269.565, "end": 270.785 } ], "start": 263.13, "end": 270.785, "num_words": 12.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You gotta get away from the water.", "start": 272.60498, "end": 273.805 }, { "text": "Get away from the water.", "start": 273.805, "end": 275.025 }, { "text": "Are you on your water?", "start": 275.88498, "end": 277.025 }, { "text": "Damn.", "start": 285.46, "end": 285.78 }, { "text": "That's not that deep water.", "start": 285.78, "end": 287.30002 } ], "start": 272.60498, "end": 287.30002, "num_words": 23.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Damn.", "start": 287.30002, "end": 287.62 }, { "text": "No fuzz.", "start": 287.62, "end": 288.36002 }, { "text": "This is what y'all do every year.", "start": 289.86002, "end": 291.06 }, { "text": "You think it's gonna rise up?", "start": 291.06, "end": 292.5 } ], "start": 287.30002, "end": 292.5, "num_words": 16.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I don't know.", "start": 292.5, "end": 293.32 }, { "text": "Be cool.", "start": 294.64502, "end": 296.805 } ], "start": 292.5, "end": 296.805, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 3 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Thanks to Sinbad for being cool about letting me use a little bit of his set here.", "start": 296.805, "end": 300.325 }, { "text": "No lie.", "start": 300.325, "end": 300.885 }, { "text": "It was entirely great and everybody had a blast.", "start": 300.885, "end": 303.385 }, { "text": "So earlier in the program, people got to hear from individuals who've been through something or experienced something that can relate to cities and towns of any size.", "start": 306.40997, "end": 314.18997 }, { "text": "So by walking us through their experience, they can teach us something we might be able to apply in our own town, which is exactly what this podcast is about.", "start": 314.65, "end": 323.065 } ], "start": 296.805, "end": 323.065, "num_words": 86.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "One of the featured speakers was Sean Lilly Wilson, who's a prominent figure in the world of beer and brewing.", "start": 324.48502, "end": 330.665 }, { "text": "His company is Fullsteam Brewery, based in Durham, North Carolina.", "start": 331.20502, "end": 334.505 }, { "text": "So Sean was gonna give a session on the intersection of breweries and local economic development at the same time that Christopher Gergen, who you've heard on this podcast before, was supposed to give a session on innovation.", "start": 336.06, "end": 346.80002 }, { "text": "And Christopher said he thought that was a little bit of unfair scheduling.", "start": 347.875, "end": 350.695 } ], "start": 324.48502, "end": 350.695, "num_words": 81.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I was saying to the organizers here, it's a little, you know, a little unfair that I'm gonna be leading a whole conversation around innovation, ecosystem development, and he's leading a conversation about beer.", "start": 350.835, "end": 360.47 }, { "text": "That's that is unfair and unimportant.", "start": 360.49, "end": 363.27002 }, { "text": "But Sean has also told me that he's not gonna have any beer at his session, so it kind of equalizes the playing field.", "start": 363.73, "end": 370.47 } ], "start": 350.835, "end": 370.47, "num_words": 64.0, "speaker": 4 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 370.53, "end": 370.85 }, { "text": "No beer there, but a ton of insight.", "start": 370.85, "end": 373.35 }, { "text": "It started with a brief q and a between Sean and Edenton mayor Roland Vaughn.", "start": 374.955, "end": 379.375 }, { "text": "Quick note, I wasn't able to record off the mixing board for this little part right here So just know that the audio quality improves dramatically in the main overall piece that we're gonna build up to here.", "start": 379.755, "end": 389.29498 }, { "text": "Here's mayor Vaughn.", "start": 389.47998, "end": 390.68 } ], "start": 370.53, "end": 390.68, "num_words": 65.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Thank you, sir.", "start": 390.68, "end": 391.24 }, { "text": "I know you've been, and continue to be heavily involved with the craft brew industry in the state.", "start": 391.24, "end": 397.66 }, { "text": "So in talking with your colleagues, are there common denominators that they're looking for as far as cultural shifts and as far as expectations of city and town governments?", "start": 398.12, "end": 409.655 }, { "text": "What are these things that we're doing and can do to help facilitate the growth of the craft brew industry in North Carolina?", "start": 410.355, "end": 419.09 } ], "start": 390.68, "end": 419.09, "num_words": 73.0, "speaker": 3 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Well, there's, about two fifty breweries in North Carolina, up from about 24 a, a decade ago.", "start": 419.71, "end": 425.47 }, { "text": "It's a significant growth.", "start": 425.47, "end": 426.85 }, { "text": "There's if there's two fifty breweries, there's, 500 business models out there amongst those breweries.", "start": 427.63, "end": 434.57498 }, { "text": "Each one of us has a different approach, a different target market, a different, methodology, a different means of scrapping and trying to make, things work.", "start": 434.57498, "end": 443.775 }, { "text": "But common, I think, to all of them is the desire to really work in connection with the community.", "start": 443.775, "end": 451.33 } ], "start": 419.71, "end": 451.33, "num_words": 81.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I can't think of a single brewery that just wants to make beer and squirrel away and and and be in isolation.", "start": 451.62997, "end": 457.585 }, { "text": "Beer is the beverage of the community.", "start": 458.125, "end": 459.665 }, { "text": "It's a beverage of gathering.", "start": 459.885, "end": 461.265 }, { "text": "It's a great, small d democratic beverage.", "start": 461.325, "end": 464.70502 }, { "text": "And, there's a reason you find it in urban areas.", "start": 465.165, "end": 468.065 } ], "start": 451.62997, "end": 468.065, "num_words": 51.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "There's a reason you find it in small towns, that it's a it's it's a way to, create community and bring folks together.", "start": 468.445, "end": 475.95 }, { "text": "And I think you're seeing a lot of success, in North Carolina at the local level with municipalities that really embrace that and get that and encourage it, wanna see that fast tracked or to figure out problems that, you know, sometimes these first, steps, a new brewery comes in and they have to reinvent the wheel and they have to reinterpret code and all that.", "start": 476.09003, "end": 499.075 }, { "text": "In general, and I'll speak more on this in the session, we found, a very collaborative environment, basically at the local level to help, facilitate this, this growth", "start": 499.075, "end": 509.63 } ], "start": 468.445, "end": 509.63, "num_words": 117.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "that we've seen.", "start": 509.77, "end": 510.59 }, { "text": "Looking at it from the economic development perspective, does it surprise you that craft breweries have become such catalyst for downtown development?", "start": 510.72998, "end": 521.515 } ], "start": 509.77, "end": 521.515, "num_words": 25.0, "speaker": 3 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I mean, in a way, it has.", "start": 522.455, "end": 523.735 }, { "text": "When you see we're seven years old and, you know, we we had we were I don't know.", "start": 524.055, "end": 530.01 }, { "text": "There's maybe 40 breweries at the time, and and and now it's it's, six times that.", "start": 530.07, "end": 534.81 }, { "text": "It's surprising to see the growth, for sure.", "start": 535.83, "end": 538.09 }, { "text": "And the level of engagement, it's it's been wonderful to to see, basically, I can travel throughout, North Carolina and be within just a few miles of not only a brewery, but a, major contributor to the economic, climate of that region.", "start": 538.15, "end": 555.98004 } ], "start": 522.455, "end": 555.98004, "num_words": 91.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's just been fantastic to see that across North Carolina, we have this entrepreneurial spirit that, that like Chris talked about, there's those energies, that then create change.", "start": 556.36005, "end": 569.595 }, { "text": "Now I think the challenge for beer is something that I'll address a little bit in my presentation is that we don't wanna put too much stock in beer.", "start": 569.83496, "end": 577.13495 }, { "text": "Consumers are fickle, and the industry's maturing.", "start": 577.27496, "end": 580.57495 }, { "text": "And so what I'm starting to think about, even though I'm don't get me wrong, I'm I'm dedicated to full steam, but I'm already starting to think about what else can help, build economic opportunity and agricultural opportunity in this post tobacco south.", "start": 580.875, "end": 596.31995 }, { "text": "And I think a few of us are in the beer industry or thinking about what more can we do.", "start": 596.37994, "end": 601.135 } ], "start": 556.36005, "end": 601.135, "num_words": 127.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And maybe it's not in the alcohol industry.", "start": 601.195, "end": 603.375 }, { "text": "Maybe it's on the policy side.", "start": 603.59503, "end": 605.375 }, { "text": "Maybe it's, giving back.", "start": 605.91504, "end": 607.835 }, { "text": "I think there's a a good number of us in the beer industry that are that are looking at that at the at the big big macro", "start": 607.835, "end": 613.36 } ], "start": 601.195, "end": 613.36, "num_words": 45.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "level.", "start": 617.82, "end": 618.32 } ], "start": 617.82, "end": 618.32, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 2 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I forgot to mention that the Greenville Public Safety Pipes and Drums group opened up the conference.", "start": 625.725, "end": 630.205 }, { "text": "So while we listen to a little bit of that, let me explain what makes Sean so special here.", "start": 630.205, "end": 634.545 }, { "text": "Sean, whose title with full steam today is chief executive optimist, was a huge part of a campaign in the early two thousands called Pop the Cat.", "start": 635.40497, "end": 643.51 }, { "text": "So here's what that is.", "start": 644.29004, "end": 645.59 }, { "text": "Since the nineteen thirties, it had been illegal to brew beer in North Carolina above 6% alcohol.", "start": 645.73004, "end": 651.51 } ], "start": 625.725, "end": 651.51, "num_words": 85.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You couldn't do it, couldn't sell it, it's an old prohibition era law.", "start": 651.875, "end": 655.255 }, { "text": "So at a 6% cap, that meant you really couldn't get a worldly variety of beer here.", "start": 655.635, "end": 660.435 }, { "text": "Like, not even IPAs in any pure sense.", "start": 660.435, "end": 662.935 }, { "text": "So you had pretty much just the mainstream companies on the shelves at the grocery stores, the big names, and not a lot of variety between them.", "start": 663.475, "end": 670.80005 }, { "text": "What Sean and his fellow coordinators did with Pop the Cap was successfully make the argument that it's not about getting IPAs or any other particular kind of beer, it's about the opportunity.", "start": 672.7, "end": 682.32 } ], "start": 651.875, "end": 682.32, "num_words": 98.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So this campaign was able to lobby and get a bill through the legislature and to the governor's desk to raise the ABV from 6% to 15%, which opened up a new world of opportunity for consumers.", "start": 682.815, "end": 694.435 }, { "text": "And logically, anyone who wanted to make beer to sell them.", "start": 695.055, "end": 697.955 }, { "text": "North Carolina today has a huge craft beer scene.", "start": 699.05, "end": 702.11 }, { "text": "Asheville is a national standout.", "start": 702.97, "end": 704.81 }, { "text": "That region alone has 60 breweries, according to the Asheville Citizen Times newspaper.", "start": 704.81, "end": 709.55 } ], "start": 682.815, "end": 709.55, "num_words": 75.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "New breweries are still opening up all the time.", "start": 710.64996, "end": 713.085 }, { "text": "And this extends from the work of Sean and his fellow organizers and lobbyist at Pop the Cap.", "start": 713.16504, "end": 718.145 }, { "text": "So here's where I say that I'm gonna lay back for the rest of the episode and let you hear from Sean in his own words with just a little bit of editing for time.", "start": 721.405, "end": 728.86505 }, { "text": "Of course, I gotta acknowledge one thing real quick.", "start": 730.1, "end": 732.6 }, { "text": "We realize not everyone, not every community has a positive perspective on alcoholic beverages.", "start": 732.82, "end": 737.32 } ], "start": 710.64996, "end": 737.32, "num_words": 85.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "There are, for example, dry counties that vote to stay dry.", "start": 738.18, "end": 741.56 }, { "text": "So whatever an individual community wants in this regard is perfectly respectable.", "start": 742.265, "end": 746.045 }, { "text": "But again, what we're focusing on here is less about those dynamics and more about economic development and revitalization and an angle on community.", "start": 746.745, "end": 755.005 }, { "text": "And how breweries have made a mark on that.", "start": 755.465, "end": 757.68 } ], "start": 738.18, "end": 757.68, "num_words": 56.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "About", "start": 763.6, "end": 764.0 } ], "start": 763.6, "end": 764.0, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 3 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Fullsteam.", "start": 764.0, "end": 764.5 }, { "text": "We're a, brewery, that's family friendly, dog friendly, all welcome.", "start": 765.52, "end": 771.14 }, { "text": "It's, it's a come as you are kind of place that's been around since 2010.", "start": 771.525, "end": 776.185 }, { "text": "When we first launched, we broke all kinds of stereotypes and norms.", "start": 776.72504, "end": 780.905 }, { "text": "We, allowed dogs into the space.", "start": 781.60504, "end": 785.22504 } ], "start": 764.0, "end": 785.22504, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We were kid friendly until 09:00.", "start": 785.64996, "end": 787.57 }, { "text": "All these things were really new and unusual for, for North Carolina and and much of The United States, at the time.", "start": 787.57, "end": 795.67 }, { "text": "Now it's kind of a known factor, and depending on where you live and how the regulations are enforced or interpreted, there's, you know or what the business wants to do, there there's, you know, as I mentioned earlier, 250 different business plans in different, markets.", "start": 795.81, "end": 812.505 }, { "text": "But ours remains, very intentional.", "start": 813.18, "end": 816.16003 }, { "text": "We wanna be a, all welcome center for Durham.", "start": 816.3, "end": 819.74 } ], "start": 785.64996, "end": 819.74, "num_words": 88.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We wanna be the community center for what we think is a dynamic, diverse, multicultural, and progressive city.", "start": 819.74, "end": 826.56 }, { "text": "We talk a lot about what makes us unique at Fullsteam, and I don't wanna talk too much about our business, but it does frame the presentation itself.", "start": 827.295, "end": 835.635 }, { "text": "We believe first and foremost that beer is an agent of economic and social change, that we, have a distinct niche in this use of local ingredients.", "start": 836.09503, "end": 844.89 }, { "text": "And number three, and this will take some explaining I know, we believe that the best things in life are equal parts beautiful and stupid.", "start": 845.19, "end": 850.89 }, { "text": "I don't mean, like, stupid like dumb.", "start": 851.03, "end": 852.71 } ], "start": 819.74, "end": 852.71, "num_words": 105.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I just mean, like, a sort of goofy simplicity, a silliness, a a an ability to get up in front of you and call myself chief executive optimist.", "start": 852.71, "end": 861.77496 }, { "text": "It's beer.", "start": 862.15497, "end": 862.795 }, { "text": "It should be fun.", "start": 862.795, "end": 863.77496 }, { "text": "It should be a beverage of community.", "start": 864.475, "end": 866.795 }, { "text": "I think one of our challenges in a maturing beer industry is that it gets really serious, and we have enthusiasts that wanna take it really seriously, and that's great and all.", "start": 866.795, "end": 874.63 } ], "start": 852.71, "end": 874.63, "num_words": 73.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "But let's not forget that this beverage is is about is about fun, and like I said, little d democracy.", "start": 874.63, "end": 880.17004 }, { "text": "So let's talk a little bit about, what our area looked like, before full steam started.", "start": 880.95, "end": 887.575 }, { "text": "So we first really started sourcing or, seeking a location in 2008.", "start": 887.635, "end": 892.215 }, { "text": "We, were build out in 2009, and we launched in 2010.", "start": 892.67505, "end": 896.35504 }, { "text": "And so these these two shots were kind of the best example of what I could see of what happened to Durham and Okay.", "start": 896.35504, "end": 901.44 } ], "start": 874.63, "end": 901.44, "num_words": 83.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So to cut in right here, Sean is showing a side by side set of images of the same place then and now.", "start": 901.44, "end": 907.22003 }, { "text": "Then was a bit ratty and unkempt, vacant looking, not necessarily desirable.", "start": 907.76, "end": 912.34 }, { "text": "And then now, pretty fantastic, Really desirable.", "start": 913.12, "end": 916.135 }, { "text": "A place with modern fun businesses, a nice atmosphere, greenery, a place you wanna be.", "start": 916.135, "end": 921.89496 } ], "start": 901.44, "end": 921.89496, "num_words": 57.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Those of you who have seen areas like this in your communities with a craft brewery or some kind of other anchor, you you'll it'll look familiar.", "start": 921.89496, "end": 930.39496 }, { "text": "But this is the warehouse area of Durham, North Carolina.", "start": 930.77, "end": 933.67 }, { "text": "Basically, tobacco supplemental tobacco services, be it, repair shops for vehicles that were used in transport of, of tobacco or, tobacco warehouses and auction houses themselves.", "start": 934.29, "end": 949.76495 }, { "text": "This is a, an area that I literally drove through around this time with my wife and my kids in the back, much younger then saying, oh my god.", "start": 950.225, "end": 959.92 }, { "text": "This area.", "start": 959.92, "end": 960.72 } ], "start": 921.89496, "end": 960.72, "num_words": 94.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I don't know.", "start": 960.72, "end": 961.54 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 961.76, "end": 962.0 }, { "text": "And so that's it now.", "start": 962.0, "end": 963.38 }, { "text": "Now that's during the day.", "start": 963.92, "end": 965.68 }, { "text": "Google, you know, Google Maps didn't give me, and I didn't think about having this, taking a shot at night time where people are hanging out and, and but this place lights up, and it's not because of Fullsteam.", "start": 965.68, "end": 978.615 } ], "start": 960.72, "end": 978.615, "num_words": 53.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's because of Motorco across the street, music venues because of the pit restaurant up there up the way.", "start": 978.615, "end": 983.83496 }, { "text": "And soon, that, building at the end there, which has been dormant for about twenty years, mister Hutchins is finally bringing that to life, and, there's gonna be activity in that building as well.", "start": 983.89496, "end": 993.9 }, { "text": "Where the parking lot is on the left, there's going to be a, eight story office complex.", "start": 993.9, "end": 999.52 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1000.3, "end": 1000.7 }, { "text": "I I think we fair to say we were the first movers in this area, and, we've seen an amazing transformation.", "start": 1000.7, "end": 1006.695 } ], "start": 978.615, "end": 1006.695, "num_words": 92.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I I read this this, this thing from, this article from James Fallows at The Atlantic that that summarized it nicely.", "start": 1010.675, "end": 1017.495 }, { "text": "It was the last one, number 11 of 11 signs of cities will succeed.", "start": 1017.795, "end": 1022.25 }, { "text": "A town that has craft breweries also has a certain kind of entrepreneur and a critical mass of mainly young, except for me.", "start": 1023.19, "end": 1029.67 }, { "text": "Now James Fallows is saying that, but I'll apply it to me as well, except for me, customers and even that entrepreneur.", "start": 1029.67, "end": 1035.645 }, { "text": "You may think I'm joking, but just try to find an exception.", "start": 1036.1849, "end": 1039.325 } ], "start": 1010.675, "end": 1039.325, "num_words": 92.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So that really hearkens back to Chris' presentation that there's these catalysts, these, there's an energy.", "start": 1039.7849, "end": 1045.5449 }, { "text": "There's people that have stayed in a community.", "start": 1045.5449, "end": 1048.125 }, { "text": "They maybe grew up there, left for a while, wanna come back, or they're like me, new to an area, and just just really have a desire to to contribute and to make their mark.", "start": 1048.5, "end": 1060.815 }, { "text": "But, number 11 on this very diverse list of all these different elements of what makes signs a city will succeed, you know, that was the last one, and he was making a point there.", "start": 1061.855, "end": 1073.3949 }, { "text": "And, and, really, it's not just one brewery.", "start": 1077.03, "end": 1079.93 } ], "start": 1039.7849, "end": 1079.93, "num_words": 102.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "These brewing districts and this was a research paper on the professional, in the professional geographer.", "start": 1080.31, "end": 1085.61 }, { "text": "Brewing districts benefit both manufacturer, that's us, the beer maker, and consumer.", "start": 1086.0701, "end": 1091.77 }, { "text": "And so what do we mean by that?", "start": 1092.105, "end": 1093.625 }, { "text": "I was in Charlotte earlier this week, at a beer dinner at the Asbury at the Dunhill Hotel.", "start": 1093.865, "end": 1100.525 }, { "text": "I, later that night went and and hung out, in a district that has about six different breweries, within walking distance.", "start": 1103.5449, "end": 1111.22 } ], "start": 1080.31, "end": 1111.22, "num_words": 75.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "The little side note story, my regulator, for one of the beers that I was trying to pour wasn't working, and Sycamore Brewing, came to the rescue and lent me one.", "start": 1111.9199, "end": 1122.405 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1122.645, "end": 1123.145 }, { "text": "That's the kind of network effect that you don't really see in very many industries.", "start": 1124.005, "end": 1128.905 }, { "text": "You know, if I'm a pharmaceutical company and I'm having a a problem with some kind of, you know, this and that, I'm I I won't I won't go into details on it, but they're not gonna yeah.", "start": 1129.2051, "end": 1139.5901 }, { "text": "Let me help you out.", "start": 1139.5901, "end": 1140.7101 } ], "start": 1111.9199, "end": 1140.7101, "num_words": 90.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know?", "start": 1140.7101, "end": 1141.11 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1141.11, "end": 1141.61 }, { "text": "But Sycamore was at the ready to loan me a, a regulator so my event could continue.", "start": 1141.67, "end": 1147.4501 }, { "text": "That's why I love the craft beer industry.", "start": 1148.4701, "end": 1150.65 }, { "text": "That's why these brewing districts make a difference because we can share from each other, share, not only insights into the industry, but, consumer base themselves, as people test out different, you know, like, favorites and they have their own ones that they, they prefer over others or they're testing things out, and, of course, for beer tourism.", "start": 1150.8949, "end": 1173.42 } ], "start": 1140.7101, "end": 1173.42, "num_words": 86.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Oh, and then civic pride and identity, that's a big one too.", "start": 1175.3201, "end": 1178.255 }, { "text": "I mean, there's it's one thing to have a brewery, in a in a city, or in a town, but when you have, 10 of them in a little district like in Asheville that's called South, you know, South Slope, that that's a branding opportunity, and that's an ident an identifier, and those network effect effects can go, a long, long way.", "start": 1178.255, "end": 1201.06 }, { "text": "So case studies, I mentioned Asheville.", "start": 1201.92, "end": 1205.645 }, { "text": "Asheville so I'm gonna kinda start big with some, about four or five examples and go smaller.", "start": 1206.345, "end": 1212.0449 }, { "text": "So we'll start with the biggest, Beer City USA, Asheville, North Carolina.", "start": 1212.4249, "end": 1216.765 } ], "start": 1175.3201, "end": 1216.765, "num_words": 109.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's, it's earned that title just, from amazing energy and, the ability to really draw not only consumers, but small businesses and, big big craft brewers in.", "start": 1218.14, "end": 1231.245 }, { "text": "So I hope you all know that Sierra Nevada and, New Belgium and Oscar Blues, are all in that area.", "start": 1231.485, "end": 1238.365 }, { "text": "Of course, Oscar Blues is in Brevard, but in the mountains let's talk about Sierra Nevada.", "start": 1238.365, "end": 1241.965 }, { "text": "That place is like 15 Costcos packed together.", "start": 1241.965, "end": 1245.165 }, { "text": "It's just gigantic.", "start": 1245.165, "end": 1246.29 } ], "start": 1218.14, "end": 1246.29, "num_words": 74.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I call it the Why Bother facility.", "start": 1246.67, "end": 1248.4501 }, { "text": "If you go in there as a craft brewer, you're like, jeez, why bother?", "start": 1248.51, "end": 1251.65 }, { "text": "They did it all.", "start": 1251.79, "end": 1252.77 }, { "text": "But it's their second facility.", "start": 1253.15, "end": 1254.61 }, { "text": "Their, original one is in Chico, California, and this is their East Coast outpost, and it's just fantastic.", "start": 1254.75, "end": 1261.715 } ], "start": 1246.67, "end": 1261.715, "num_words": 48.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's, it's a major economic driver for the region and a beautiful, beautiful space.", "start": 1261.775, "end": 1267.475 }, { "text": "More on my level and kinda why I got into the business are these, smaller breweries that each have their their niche, and you can see it on the map here.", "start": 1268.255, "end": 1276.8201 }, { "text": "That clustering in the South Slope, has, had some really great economic benefits for the region, for that, community, for the, for beer tourism, and then for certain breweries like, Wicked Weed, you know, they they sold to Anheuser Busch.", "start": 1277.36, "end": 1294.3949 }, { "text": "They they are no longer technically a craft brewery, but, they saw that success and and, decided to to, you know, reap the rewards of of their hard work.", "start": 1294.3949, "end": 1305.8099 }, { "text": "So that's a, you know, a town, a city of Asheville doing amazing things.", "start": 1306.0499, "end": 1310.63 } ], "start": 1261.775, "end": 1310.63, "num_words": 128.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Our experience at Fullsteam, we have had, as I've mentioned, proactive, positive communication with city officials, both in our beginning as as as we've considered, expansion.", "start": 1313.09, "end": 1323.865 }, { "text": "But the city does know that, Durham's hot right now, and it's expensive, And we might not be able to, to locate our second, you know, our expansion needs there.", "start": 1324.405, "end": 1335.34 }, { "text": "But, so there's only so much they can do.", "start": 1336.12, "end": 1338.12 }, { "text": "We recognize that, and it's not in my personality to to try to curry special favor.", "start": 1338.12, "end": 1343.9 }, { "text": "One of the challenges and, you know, you you hear this all the time, but one of the challenges of homespun businesses like ours is, we don't we're growing and we're building, hiring people, but we are not coming in from out of state and, and locating.", "start": 1344.475, "end": 1361.03 } ], "start": 1313.09, "end": 1361.03, "num_words": 128.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And so the job gen the job creation benefits sometimes aren't afforded to us, these indigenous breweries, and that could be sometimes frustrating, but we also recognize that that's just the way things have been structured.", "start": 1361.03, "end": 1373.29 }, { "text": "So we'll see where our expansion goes.", "start": 1374.6849, "end": 1376.445 }, { "text": "All I know is that we're running out of space, and we need to, increase capacity.", "start": 1376.445, "end": 1380.7849 }, { "text": "Then we're gonna go on to smaller levels and smaller examples.", "start": 1382.7649, "end": 1386.465 }, { "text": "Kinston.", "start": 1386.845, "end": 1387.345 } ], "start": 1361.03, "end": 1387.345, "num_words": 71.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Many of you may know Kinston, from A Chef's Life, and Vivian Howard, the chef and the farmer restaurant has done amazing things for that, that beautiful town.", "start": 1388.16, "end": 1397.62 }, { "text": "But also Mother Earth Brewing Company has been a a big catalyst in that region, not only from the brewery itself, but, from the other projects that the owner is involved in, and, most recently, a motor lodge that, is branded Mother Earth.", "start": 1397.8401, "end": 1411.725 }, { "text": "It's just really cool looking.", "start": 1411.725, "end": 1413.005 }, { "text": "I'm looking forward to staying there someday.", "start": 1413.005, "end": 1415.105 }, { "text": "It's just fun to see how these entrepreneurial minds go beyond thinking about just beer to say, how can we extend our brand and how can we do more, with, other partners and other people who care deeply about, you know, in this case, Kinston and and, making a big difference, and I think for the most part, a very, very positive one for that region.", "start": 1415.5901, "end": 1438.1749 } ], "start": 1388.16, "end": 1438.1749, "num_words": 149.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Good.", "start": 1438.635, "end": 1439.0349 }, { "text": "And then I have to I have to circle around here and realize that I have, because I wanna read something to you that came from Ashborough and Four Saints.", "start": 1439.0349, "end": 1447.5801 }, { "text": "And, the, owner, Joel, does a better job than I ever could of, of explaining his firsthand experience.", "start": 1447.88, "end": 1455.9 }, { "text": "So forgive me as I just read it out, but I think this is just a great, he just did such a fantastic job.", "start": 1455.96, "end": 1461.6951 }, { "text": "I wanna read his words verbatim.", "start": 1461.6951, "end": 1463.3151 } ], "start": 1438.635, "end": 1463.3151, "num_words": 79.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So Ashborough, well, I'm I'm just gonna read it.", "start": 1463.855, "end": 1468.755 }, { "text": "So I asked him, you know, what was it what's it what's it been like for you?", "start": 1468.8151, "end": 1471.935 }, { "text": "He says, the impact of us being in downtown has been the story we've seen in multi across multiple breweries in North Carolina.", "start": 1471.935, "end": 1477.69 }, { "text": "Increased tourism, more people downtown, increased media through beer, especially when a traveler beer writer comes through, and partnerships with other businesses and charities.", "start": 1478.23, "end": 1487.13 }, { "text": "With Asheboro specifically, it was a town that was dry for fifty years up to 2008.", "start": 1487.5249, "end": 1492.9049 } ], "start": 1463.855, "end": 1492.9049, "num_words": 89.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We're demonstrating the idea that craft means culture and appreciation and community.", "start": 1493.205, "end": 1497.465 }, { "text": "This past weekend, we had a lot large Oktoberfest celebration to raise money for the family crisis center.", "start": 1498.005, "end": 1503.5099 }, { "text": "It benefited the charity, the downtown business, Asheboro's quality of life, and Asheboro's reputation outside of Randolph County for those who attended and shared their experience.", "start": 1503.8899, "end": 1513.11 }, { "text": "This city extended these graces because in 2008, Asheboro was rocked by a few things.", "start": 1513.9349, "end": 1519.075 }, { "text": "The national recession caused multiple layoffs and closings, and it was named one of the, quote, fastest dying towns in America by Forbes Magazine, with sixty minutes even coming to town to feature Ashbrew.", "start": 1519.455, "end": 1531.47 } ], "start": 1493.205, "end": 1531.47, "num_words": 105.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I'm just gonna say it.", "start": 1532.25, "end": 1533.13 }, { "text": "These two things piss people off.", "start": 1533.13, "end": 1534.9099 }, { "text": "There was a revelation that we were not going to be saved by corporations and CEOs.", "start": 1535.21, "end": 1539.13 }, { "text": "We were going to be saved by the entrepreneurial spirit that had made this country, state, and town what it once was.", "start": 1539.13, "end": 1545.365 }, { "text": "People began investing in themselves and their ideas and their drive.", "start": 1545.665, "end": 1549.365 } ], "start": 1532.25, "end": 1549.365, "num_words": 60.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "The town, city of Asheboro was ready to prove these blowhards at Forbes wrong.", "start": 1549.745, "end": 1554.725 }, { "text": "The city saw a local brewery as an economic, cultural, and community driver.", "start": 1555.1, "end": 1560.0 }, { "text": "It was time to shake things up, and they put their faith in us.", "start": 1560.14, "end": 1563.68 }, { "text": "And just so it happens in 2016, the Atlantic noted having a local brewery as one of 11 keys to having a successful city, one of those things that I had mentioned.", "start": 1564.3, "end": 1573.015 }, { "text": "So now we're at a we're we're a stop when the city is courting new businesses.", "start": 1573.235, "end": 1577.315 } ], "start": 1549.745, "end": 1577.315, "num_words": 89.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Let me read that again.", "start": 1577.315, "end": 1578.455 }, { "text": "We are a stop.", "start": 1578.515, "end": 1579.475 }, { "text": "We're a destination when the city is courting new businesses to demonstrate the quality of life of Asheboro, the fun we have, the kind of corporate citizens Asheboro has, and the potential for coming decades.", "start": 1579.475, "end": 1590.98 }, { "text": "Pretty cool.", "start": 1591.92, "end": 1592.48 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1592.48, "end": 1592.98 } ], "start": 1577.315, "end": 1592.98, "num_words": 47.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So good for them, good for the city of Asheboro.", "start": 1593.28, "end": 1595.62 }, { "text": "Specifically, on what the, what they did to help facilitate, they changed zoning laws to allow a brewery downtown instead of just wait.", "start": 1596.48, "end": 1604.8949 }, { "text": "What are we doing?", "start": 1604.8949, "end": 1605.7749 } ], "start": 1593.28, "end": 1605.7749, "num_words": 37.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I want to say, I'm David Smith.", "start": 1605.7749, "end": 1607.695 }, { "text": "I'm the mayor of Ashborough.", "start": 1607.695, "end": 1608.835 }, { "text": "Hey.", "start": 1608.8949, "end": 1609.3949 }, { "text": "What he said is exactly right.", "start": 1609.5349, "end": 1611.5349 }, { "text": "Awesome.", "start": 1611.5349, "end": 1611.9349 } ], "start": 1605.7749, "end": 1611.9349, "num_words": 20.0, "speaker": 3 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It has been a game changer for downtown Ashborough.", "start": 1611.9349, "end": 1612.0068 }, { "text": "Great.", "start": 1612.0068, "end": 1612.0149 }, { "text": "Thank you.", "start": 1612.0149, "end": 1612.7649 }, { "text": "Great.", "start": 1615.11, "end": 1615.61 }, { "text": "Thank you.", "start": 1616.47, "end": 1617.67 } ], "start": 1611.9349, "end": 1617.67, "num_words": 15.0, "speaker": 3 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "That's the name.", "start": 1617.67, "end": 1618.49 } ], "start": 1617.67, "end": 1618.49, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 3 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Love that.", "start": 1620.79, "end": 1621.27 }, { "text": "That's great.", "start": 1621.27, "end": 1622.01 }, { "text": "Y'all change zoning laws to allow a brewery downtown instead of, limiting it to a warehouse district, extended water services, and reduce the brewer's water cost.", "start": 1622.39, "end": 1631.375 }, { "text": "Alright.", "start": 1638.555, "end": 1638.955 }, { "text": "So some challenges.", "start": 1638.955, "end": 1640.015 } ], "start": 1620.79, "end": 1640.015, "num_words": 34.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's not all, you know, rosy.", "start": 1640.8401, "end": 1642.8401 }, { "text": "There's definitely some challenges.", "start": 1642.8401, "end": 1644.38 }, { "text": "I'm gonna put aside the, and we can maybe chat if people wanna talk about it, but I did not list the sort of the moral qualms about, you know, beer and alcohol and all of that.", "start": 1645.16, "end": 1654.3 }, { "text": "I'm biased, I'll admit.", "start": 1654.68, "end": 1656.22 }, { "text": "But I do have, you know, ongoing concerns on a few things, that that I I I wanna bring to your attention, we can discuss openly, that of gentrification.", "start": 1656.465, "end": 1665.285 } ], "start": 1640.8401, "end": 1665.285, "num_words": 80.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "One of the one of the interesting things that we've seen in the beer industry is that, beer itself, breweries themselves, want to locate in buildings with good bones, tall ceilings, good infrastructure, good power, ready access to, to water.", "start": 1666.225, "end": 1682.82 }, { "text": "Typically, these aren't, environments where there's a whole lot of people living.", "start": 1683.855, "end": 1688.335 }, { "text": "If I had to go back to that, slide, rigs being gear, it wasn't that, densely populated.", "start": 1688.335, "end": 1695.475 }, { "text": "We had a decision to make.", "start": 1695.775, "end": 1697.01 }, { "text": "We we wanted to be when we first launched Fullsteam, we wanted to, be walkable where I said, I want people to show up on a Tuesday, and I wanna be able to fit a forklift.", "start": 1697.5701, "end": 1706.95 } ], "start": 1666.225, "end": 1706.95, "num_words": 111.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Those were my criteria for our for our business plan.", "start": 1707.09, "end": 1709.83 }, { "text": "That's not a universal.", "start": 1709.835, "end": 1710.735 }, { "text": "Peep different breweries are gonna tell you different things.", "start": 1711.835, "end": 1714.075 }, { "text": "But for us, I wanted to fit a forklift and I wanna have people show up on a Tuesday.", "start": 1714.075, "end": 1718.015 }, { "text": "Tuesday, because it's a slower day of the week, I figure if we can get people on a Tuesday, then we're located close enough to, where people can get to us easily enough to merit being open seven days a week.", "start": 1718.395, "end": 1730.13 } ], "start": 1707.09, "end": 1730.13, "num_words": 83.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We're also and this is our specific example.", "start": 1731.79, "end": 1734.61 }, { "text": "We are, a a block behind us is, a duplex, quad buildings, kinda older buildings that were in state of disrepair.", "start": 1735.0701, "end": 1746.0651 }, { "text": "And the typical narrative is those become, like, high end condos, and there are some of those things going on.", "start": 1746.605, "end": 1752.045 }, { "text": "But one of the things that I love about Durham, is that that, that complex, that set of about 18 buildings or so is, and has been for the last five years a, a home for people with adults with, developmental disabilities who are transitioning, to live with caretakers, or on their own with community assistance.", "start": 1752.045, "end": 1776.415 }, { "text": "It's in a an an intentional community that is, very much a part of the community at large.", "start": 1776.415, "end": 1783.43 } ], "start": 1731.79, "end": 1783.43, "num_words": 123.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So you'll see those neighbors come in and hang out and, and enjoy full steam.", "start": 1783.49, "end": 1788.29 }, { "text": "That makes me really happy, but I also don't want to ignore the fact that, there is the risk of displacement, as people want to live downtown and as rents increase and, and and, living becomes more scarce.", "start": 1788.29, "end": 1805.075 }, { "text": "I don't have answers to that, but I'd be, remiss if I didn't at least recognize that that's something that we should all be openly addressing and trying to, trying to tackle.", "start": 1805.695, "end": 1815.0801 }, { "text": "I think Durham has done a very good job of that, and I hope I'm hopeful for the future.", "start": 1815.0801, "end": 1819.66 }, { "text": "The fickleness of the consumer.", "start": 1820.055, "end": 1821.5951 } ], "start": 1783.49, "end": 1821.5951, "num_words": 109.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right now, beer is hot.", "start": 1821.9751, "end": 1823.015 }, { "text": "Will it be hot in five or ten years?", "start": 1823.015, "end": 1824.935 }, { "text": "I I hope so.", "start": 1824.935, "end": 1825.9751 }, { "text": "I mean, the Sumerians discovered beer five thousand years ago, so it has a pretty good track record.", "start": 1825.9751, "end": 1831.5951 }, { "text": "But, you know, the consumers, taste ebb and flow.", "start": 1832.135, "end": 1836.25 } ], "start": 1821.9751, "end": 1836.25, "num_words": 45.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And, you know, it was just thirty, forty years ago when, we had, I think something like 13 breweries in America, and now we have nearly 5,000.", "start": 1836.63, "end": 1847.925 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1848.3251, "end": 1848.645 }, { "text": "So who knows where that's gonna go?", "start": 1848.645, "end": 1850.5851 }, { "text": "The maturity of the beer industry goes hand in hand, and I think that, simply means that we're gonna have increased competition and this, like, the the friendly spirit, that we, enjoy, right now, may, be at risk of eroding, and those brewing districts may feel some tensions where there's a little bit of infighting and all that.", "start": 1853.125, "end": 1873.755 }, { "text": "I will tell you from my experience that, with a a really good brewery opening up in Durham, it's only, forced us to get better and to do innovate and do more things.", "start": 1874.395, "end": 1885.295 } ], "start": 1836.63, "end": 1885.295, "num_words": 126.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So I'm in that, competition, is a a very good thing for for us.", "start": 1885.435, "end": 1890.61 }, { "text": "Opportunities.", "start": 1894.75, "end": 1895.25 }, { "text": "Beers to beverages, celebration, democracy, equality.", "start": 1895.55, "end": 1897.87 }, { "text": "I've said that a few times.", "start": 1897.87, "end": 1898.83 }, { "text": "Hopefully, that means it's sinking in.", "start": 1898.83, "end": 1900.35 } ], "start": 1885.435, "end": 1900.35, "num_words": 33.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I believe it, and I hope you do too.", "start": 1900.59, "end": 1903.01 }, { "text": "The Modern Brewery is the city's welcome center, its heartbeat.", "start": 1903.9349, "end": 1906.835 }, { "text": "Really, that's what we're seeing is, I'm a big fan of Robert Putnam.", "start": 1908.335, "end": 1911.715 }, { "text": "Bowling Alone is a book that really influenced me in, social capital, and I think you're seeing that, beer, in place in breweries that have a focus on on premise gathering, done right, and most of them are, it's it's a center for for all that's a new era community center.", "start": 1912.335, "end": 1931.95 }, { "text": "We need more of those in our lives.", "start": 1932.285, "end": 1933.9651 } ], "start": 1900.59, "end": 1933.9651, "num_words": 91.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We live in a connected yet disconnected world, and, I think beer is a a great way to bring people together.", "start": 1934.125, "end": 1941.425 }, { "text": "And, you know, for those environments that that wanna have a family friendly, setting, My personal opinion is that it, that that's a great way to show, a responsible consumption rather than hiding it into into a corner.", "start": 1941.805, "end": 1955.5399 }, { "text": "I mean, my kids grew up watching us as responsible adults in in this in this responsible environment, and I I think that's leading as they get to age where they're legally allowed to drink alcohol, been a good thing for them to witness firsthand.", "start": 1955.5399, "end": 1970.625 }, { "text": "Opportunities.", "start": 1972.2051, "end": 1972.7051 }, { "text": "Breweries are exerting, increased political influence.", "start": 1972.925, "end": 1976.0651 } ], "start": 1934.125, "end": 1976.0651, "num_words": 111.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I mean, you now have this is not a North Carolina example, but you now have a former brewer, in Colorado who is mayor, now governor, and purported to be a candidate for 2020 for, for, possibly running for a governor.", "start": 1976.25, "end": 1991.55 }, { "text": "So, now that's one one guy, but, you know, there's a good number of us that care deeply about things other than beer.", "start": 1992.5549, "end": 2002.1749 }, { "text": "And, there's good bit of them who just care about beer, but that's another story altogether.", "start": 2002.955, "end": 2007.4501 }, { "text": "I do believe that there's an opportunity for communities, for leaders, for catalyst to, to bring together makers, to, foster creativity, hometown pride, making of products, making of goods that reflect that sense of place.", "start": 2011.75, "end": 2032.74 }, { "text": "I think one thing that, we're we're longing for is, that and and and I know you all deeply I assume most of you keep care very deeply in your service to the community.", "start": 2032.74, "end": 2044.3401 } ], "start": 1976.25, "end": 2044.3401, "num_words": 149.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You care very deeply about where you're from or where you who you serve, your the people you serve, your community.", "start": 2044.3401, "end": 2050.315 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 2050.775, "end": 2051.0151 }, { "text": "And and there are people like you, people like us who want to make things that come from our town, that come from our region, that come from something specific or special that that is unique to, you know, be it Hertford County or Wayne County or anywhere in between.", "start": 2051.0151, "end": 2071.6702 }, { "text": "You know?", "start": 2071.6702, "end": 2072.33 }, { "text": "It's, that that's where I see a lot of opportunity.", "start": 2073.11, "end": 2076.165 } ], "start": 2044.3401, "end": 2076.165, "num_words": 84.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Current example of that.", "start": 2078.405, "end": 2079.945 }, { "text": "But if we can figure out ways to network these, passions and, and and and this manufacturing, some of it will have an agricultural bent, Some of it will have a hands a handcrafted bent.", "start": 2080.0051, "end": 2094.4502 }, { "text": "Some of it might be restaurants.", "start": 2094.4502, "end": 2095.75 }, { "text": "But, I do believe that, us together in in in collectives, in little campuses even, could be a really cool thing for for communities.", "start": 2095.81, "end": 2106.07 }, { "text": "You can probably tell that that's not very well fleshed out.", "start": 2106.605, "end": 2109.805 } ], "start": 2078.405, "end": 2109.805, "num_words": 80.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I don't make any apologies for that, but it's the genesis of an idea.", "start": 2109.805, "end": 2114.145 }, { "text": "So hopefully, even me going through this exercise and sharing it with you will help it percolate in my brain and maybe even some conversations that we'll, we'll have, you know, that that during this time together, we'll be able to build on that and take it to the next level.", "start": 2114.9248, "end": 2131.88 }, { "text": "So with that, thank you very much.", "start": 2132.02, "end": 2133.96 }, { "text": "Appreciate it.", "start": 2134.02, "end": 2134.92 } ], "start": 2109.805, "end": 2134.92, "num_words": 74.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Thanks for listening.", "start": 2138.785, "end": 2139.845 }, { "text": "Thanks to Sean Lilly Wilson for letting me repurpose his presentation here.", "start": 2139.985, "end": 2143.685 }, { "text": "Thanks to Sinbad for being cool about it too.", "start": 2143.825, "end": 2146.165 }, { "text": "There's more material from this conference, a lot more material from City Vision 2017.", "start": 2146.385, "end": 2150.645 }, { "text": "That's gonna go into future episodes because it was really, really, really good, and it benefited everyone who attended.", "start": 2150.9302, "end": 2156.79 } ], "start": 2138.785, "end": 2156.79, "num_words": 57.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "As always, let me know if you have any ideas for any episodes.", "start": 2158.53, "end": 2161.4302 }, { "text": "You can email me at bbrown@nclm.org or tweet to me.", "start": 2161.57, "end": 2166.975 }, { "text": "I'm at muniequation.", "start": 2166.975, "end": 2168.435 }, { "text": "That's at m u n I equation on Twitter.", "start": 2168.815, "end": 2171.315 }, { "text": "We're on Instagram as well.", "start": 2171.855, "end": 2173.315 } ], "start": 2158.53, "end": 2173.315, "num_words": 40.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Please tell your friends and colleagues, help spread the word, subscribe on iTunes.", "start": 2174.415, "end": 2178.28 }, { "text": "We would love a friendly review.", "start": 2178.34, "end": 2179.8 }, { "text": "Also, shout out to my friends at the National League of Cities, specifically Angelina Panatteri, Tom Martin, and President Matt Zoen, who's a member of the Cleveland, Ohio City Council.", "start": 2181.3801, "end": 2190.98 }, { "text": "Thanks for being at the conference.", "start": 2190.98, "end": 2192.245 }, { "text": "It was awesome talking.", "start": 2192.245, "end": 2193.305 } ], "start": 2174.415, "end": 2193.305, "num_words": 59.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Also, congratulations to Jacksonville, North Carolina Mayor Pro Tem, Michael Lazara, on his new presidency at the League of Municipalities, Washington City Councilman William Pitt on his vice presidency, and the rest of the new board of directors, whom I've had a really good time getting to know.", "start": 2195.765, "end": 2210.68 }, { "text": "And, of course, immediate past president Bob Metheny.", "start": 2210.9, "end": 2213.4 }, { "text": "You've heard him on the podcast before.", "start": 2213.46, "end": 2215.155 }, { "text": "He's been in public office for more than four decades, which is amazing.", "start": 2215.315, "end": 2219.0151 }, { "text": "And a special shout out to Parmole mayor, Jerry McCrary.", "start": 2221.155, "end": 2224.215 } ], "start": 2195.765, "end": 2224.215, "num_words": 86.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Always fun talking with you.", "start": 2224.435, "end": 2225.975 }, { "text": "Municipal Equation comes out biweekly and is a production of the North Carolina League of Municipalities.", "start": 2227.3298, "end": 2231.8298 }, { "text": "We'll talk to you next time.", "start": 2232.6099, "end": 2233.99 }, { "text": "This is Ben Brown.", "start": 2234.6099, "end": 2235.75 } ], "start": 2224.435, "end": 2235.75, "num_words": 31.0, "speaker": 0 } ] }, "entities": null, "translations": null, "topics": null } ], "detected_language": "" } ], "utterances": [ { "start": 4.24, "end": 14.985, "confidence": 0.9681048, "channel": 0, "transcript": "On this episode of Municipal Equation. 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