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This is Municipal Equation from the North Carolina League of Municipalities. Hey, everybody. It's Ben Brown from the League of Municipalities in Raleigh. And today, we're gonna talk about something that's not a new topic, renewable energy. But many of us still grapple with or wonder about the different ways we can move to renewable energy sources away from, for instance, fossil fuels. Sustainability is such a big topic that many organizations, including municipalities, have sustainability managers on staff tasked with things like reducing that organization's carbon footprint. The topic has persisted so much that we know it's not a pocket trend. It's something that cities and towns and private entities alike are taking very seriously. But it still may be kind of a logistically daunting thing to do. How does a municipality shift over to powering its buildings and so on with renewable energy sources, speaking in this case, independent of fossil fuels? Well, let's ask a town that appears to be the first in North Carolina to actually do that and way ahead of its own schedule for doing so. That would be the mountain town of Boone, which initially had a goal set by the town council of getting municipal operations to carbon neutrality by the year 2030, knowing that electricity is the biggest source of greenhouse gas emissions in North Carolina. But they've already done it. They've already achieved that goal. As a municipality, as a government with town buildings and municipal facilities, Boone is off of fossil fuels, powering what they've got entirely by renewable energy. This has been such a popular topic of curiosity that I got multiple emails asking for an episode about it. So I got up with the person to talk to at the town of Boone, George Santucci, the town's sustainability and special projects manager. I like to joke with everybody that that title is as broad as possible and therefore means I can get involved in just about anything. Mhmm. But definitely focused on, greening the town and and eliminating our carbon footprint and our greenhouse gas footprint is my primary role. On that tip, just to kinda get to it, you initially, you what I say you meaning, Boone had a goal to be independent of carbon based energy sources by the year 2030, which is kinda crazy to think that's only, what, eight years away. Right. Right. Yeah, It sounds so futuristic, but and it sounds like like, you know, a a pretty grand runway, but, you know, it's still a big goal by itself to, to be independent of carbon based energy sources. How was that goal set? Maybe just for a little, background history. Sure. So town council passed a resolution in 2016, kinda riding the wave at the time, and and the the resolution was essentially that the town of Boone would seek to be carbon neutral by 2050, which is pretty standard for, you know, the time that time and that day and what was going on internationally. So was 2050? Just 2050. Yes. Originally. And then in 2019, they passed a resolution to clarify that goal. And, you know, one one important you know, the the resolution has many many comments and many statements and whereas is in it, but the final one is probably the most critical. And it's it's that they say that whereas the goal of a 100% comp conversion to clean renewable energy by the town by 12/31/2050 is no longer adequate given the rapid increase in temperatures and the acceleration of climate change. So they acknowledge that 2050, while, you know, while the norm, is was inadequate. So this this 2019 resolution went on to clarify then and put some iterative steps in there. And so the original step was for municipal operations to be what they termed climate neutral. So Okay. Not a 100% clean, but using all tools available to offset our carbon footprint if we couldn't eliminate our carbon footprint by 2030. And then the second step would be to find 100% clean energy and eliminate our carbon footprint completely by 2040 on municipal operations, and then leave the 2050 goal as a community wide goal. So the entire community would be operating from carbon neutral sources, and the the town would have a zero carbon footprint. So what has happened, since? I mean, the the headlines have indicated you guys have kinda hit a mark ahead of schedule. Is that is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. So the one other step I haven't brought up here, and I'm grateful for it, of course, because it's created my position, is that, you know, our town manager, John Ward, felt it was critical. Now the council had taken these steps and and set these goals, and he was trying to achieve them as a manager while he's trying to manage the town and run the town. And, you know, it was part of our public works department, part of our planning department. So it was really nobody's 100% job. It was it was kind of a shared responsibility amongst staff Okay. Which has its challenges. So he in at the 2020 toward the 2020, he created, my position, and and I interviewed for that position and started the very first in January '21, to focus solely on on this goal. And so, that, I think, was a real critical step for the town. Is is it accurate that you guys have hit that goal, that original twenty fifty goal, then a twenty thirty goal that you guys have already hit it to some degree? So, yeah, interesting. Great question. So what I would argue is that we hit part of the 2040 goal already. So Okay. You know, 2030 goal was to offset or eliminate our carbon footprint by any means necessary, and then 2040 was to have absolutely no carbon footprint. So what we've done is we have no carbon footprint for our the electricity that the town consumes municipally. So all the power used by our wastewater treatment plant, our water processing plant, our pumps, and and our, buildings, our public works, buildings, our our town municipal buildings. All those buildings are burning now energy created by either solar power or hydropower. So that's so it is a weird mix of those two goals. And then the the thing we've yet to offset and I'm now focused on completely is our fleet conversion and, other operations within so, like, heat systems within town buildings, things of that nature. So we haven't eliminated all fossil fuels, but it's a huge step in that direction. And, again, on the ener on the electricity side, which is arguably the largest part of our footprint, we've achieved that. So you mentioned, solar and hydro as sources. What what is a transition of, like, of that kind take? I I imagine some infrastructure changes or, I'm just kinda putting a big question mark on that. What what does that look like? Yeah. So, I think with all successful endeavors, a whole lot of luck and good timing has to be a big part of it, and that's what I stepped into. It it is I'd love to tell you that it was it was a a brilliant stroke of genius on my part and my negotiating skills with our power utilities and everything. And I'm not saying there wasn't a little bit of that going on, but, there there had to be there had to be momentum on their part too. So let's Mhmm. Let's take one step back. Probably should paint this picture because we're talking to the entire state of North Carolina. And Yeah. Boone is unique in that, we are not on Duke Power, directly. We are served, ironically, even though we're not that big a town, we are served by two different public, energy electricity providers or utilities. One is New River Light and Power, and they're owned by Appalachian State University. And the other is, Blue Ridge Energies, and they are a local, cooperative. Gotcha. So the negotiations were were for us, you know, at a really personal and local level, which I think enhanced and made made this, even more possible. On top of that, you know Just to go into that a little bit more. So so by that, do you mean that the connections were easier to make because they were essentially down the road and they could work with you kind of on-site. Is that what you're talking about? Or Yeah. It's a little bit of that. And, you know, they are well invested in this community. Their, you know, their their offices are you know, their people are here. They're maintaining the grid here. I'm not saying Duke's not doing that in in other towns across the state, but it's it's just a it's a lot closer to home, I guess, to these companies. Right. That makes sense. Okay. And so, you know, the the momentum that I took advantage of is that, obviously, Appalachian State is well known for sustainable activities and and there's they have a really strong academic sustainable program at App State, and and there's a lot of momentum over there to to make some pretty great changes. So New River Light and Power being a a subsidiary essentially of Appalachian State had that ethic. So Ed Miller, the the general manager of New River Light and Power was already, one step that was critical that they took that, I've locked into is is that they originally got most of their power through Blue Ridge Energy, which is essentially is Duke Energy Power. So so our carbon footprint would, at that time, was tied to Duke's Duke's, portfolio of of power generation. I see. Prior to me getting here, New River Light and Power had seen that as a liability and had moved to end that relationship and move on to a new agreement with an organization called Carolina Power Partners Okay. Which is a a a multiple smaller utilities that are, all part of Carolina Power Partners, and they primarily get their energy from a natural gas power plant down in Kings Mountain. So we were we would have been looking at all of our energy coming from natural gas, which obviously would still not achieve what our goals are. Right. But there was a clause in the contract that Ed exploited, and that clause was that he had to buy the bulk of his energy from the central gas plant for so long, but he had the capacity to go out and seek alternative energy sources. And so he took advantage of that and secured access to hydropower, knowing that if he could get enough of his larger customers to buy into this, then it would it would be worthwhile for him to do it. So the town when we learned that that was a possibility, we were all in. And, I worked heavily with him to make sure that he knew that the town would buy x number of, megawatts of of the hydropower and making it safer for him to go out and and and make that extra purchase. And and hydropower, just, to kinda, paint a picture, I mean, it this is not just like, you know, the the wheel on the water type thing. So this is, infrastructure that's been built. And, could could you describe that or or just for people like me who don't exactly know? Sure. Sure. So this is the part of the power that we get that people if they're gonna be super critical, they're gonna be critical of the hydro. And it and this is, so but but it is it is old infrastructure, and that's probably the biggest criticism we get. Right? It didn't didn't create new green renewable energy. Even though it is a renewable energy source in and of itself, it it is older. So these dams, there there there's a portfolio of about four dams that this power will come from, through Brookfield Energy is the company that manages the dams, and, they're all kind of in Southwestern, North Carolina, Tennessee down in the down in that area. They're they're dams that have had long FERC, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, licenses, to produce this. And and these are these are large scale dams. Correct? They're not they're not small low head dams or or, an old mill wheel in an old Appalachian community. They're they're substantial structures. And, the reality is at the end of the day that they're and they're not going anywhere. So to not take advantage of our resources sitting there, it seems kinda wasteful. The other the other power source that we have and, so I I mentioned that Boone is served by two different utilities. The other weird irony of Boone is that, Blue Ridge Electric only serves about 25% of our geography of Boone, but it serves 75% of the town's energy consumption only because our two biggest energy consumers are on their side of town. And so that would be our wastewater treatment plant and our water intake on the river. So those two things use easily 75% of the town's municipal energy. And so it was critical to pull something off with Blue Ridge. And to their credit, like New River who was already migrating into this arena, they were negotiating and working to have a, 11 megawatt solar array installed on their grid. It's just off the mountain, just below us in Caldwell County, kinda near, Granite Falls, North Carolina. So, when I learned that this was underway, I immediately was like, we need to secure enough of that energy coming to the town of Boone to to ensure that we have we have what we need to to cover our load on on your grid. And and they were happy to negotiate with us and and work that out. And, we're the first customer to to secure, the the enough solar from that array to to cover our municipal use on on their grid. Wow. So, you know, I I'm thinking as you're talking, you know, sometimes just a general, maybe, kind of old school opinion about, say, solar, for example, is, you know, is that gonna be a 100% reliable? You know, what happens on a just generic statement. What happens on a cloudy day? Right. Right. Things like that that that people have kinda said over the years. What what are some of these misconceptions that people might have about about moving to something like this? Yeah. Certainly. And and they're more apropos in a in a micro sense. So when you're talking about your house and say, you wanted to remove your house completely from the grid and rely entirely on solar, it's a that's actually not possible at all because the sun doesn't shine twenty four seven unless you stop consuming energy when the sun isn't shining. Right. The way you can make that possible is have a storage have storage capacity, so essentially batteries or some alternative to that, to to save that energy and get you through the night. Right? So the beauty of what we've achieved is that we're working directly with our energy providers, our utilities. And so the grid is essentially that function and that role to us. And these companies, their job, their business is making sure you flip a switch at your house, that light comes on, guaranteed all the time. So that's that's their business. So we we didn't build solar arrays that we have to personally maintain or hydropower dams that we have to personally maintain. We're we're working with people who do this work on a daily basis already. So so the so that was and and they're gonna guarantee that that our lights come on. Now it does get fuzzy and funny. So I can sit here and say that our the solar obviously does not provide enough energy to to get you through a twenty four hour period of time. So what we do on the books is buy way more solar than we would use in a twenty four hour period. Ah, okay. So we're buying the equivalent amount of energy over a period of time, let's say a year or a month of solar to cover our consumption for that period of time. Gotcha. And the same with the hydro. Because the hydro, they don't generate even though the river is running twenty four seven and they could generate twenty four seven, they typically generate either in peak times or or, you know, when when it's necessary, when they wanna put it out on the grid. So it's, again, more of a, they're generating x number of megawatts. We need x number of megawatts for a a month or a year, however you wanna look at it, and then so we buy enough to do that. And I think the other nuance I wanna point out here that's critical that was critical to us is that we're buying the entire commodity. So there there's a term out there called REX, the the, renewable energy credit or or, that that many people, many big corporations are just buying REX stuff. Now REX will offset your footprint, but you don't actually have or own that energy. Right? It's that energy's out on the grid. Don't get me wrong. You put it out there. And and it's essentially true for us, but we're we're paying for the energy and the REX all at the same time. So we we own the we own the entire commodity, and and that that was critical. I you know, I understand this stuff gets it's it's really complicated. It's too nuanced. And for the regular general public to understand it is is almost impossible. Mhmm. And, if we can eliminate some of that confusion, that's really what we're shooting for. Just to recap, the the there's this energy source that exists, and Boone purchases capacity in it, and it's enough to satisfy keeping the lights on, keeping the the HVAC going, and all that stuff. Is that kind of a a very basic way of saying Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. So so just talking about purchasing, you know, cost is probably, you know, a curiosity for outsiders. Could you talk about that and and what makes this worth it? Yeah. Sure. So, renewables are still obviously a small small part of of energy generation, and anything that's not in high demand tends to have a premium attached to it, unfortunately. So we are paying a premium for both the solar and the hydro, to to have access to that. And, essentially, what that works out to is, 2¢ per kilowatt hour increase over what our regular electric bill was. Okay. So if you're if you look at your own electric bill and, you know, they typically say you use x number of kilowatt hours a month or a day, that's the kilowatt hour we're talking about. That's we're paying 2¢ more than you are at your house. What are people saying about this? Like, what what kind of community feedback is coming in about, about this move? Yeah. It's a it's a it's an interesting mix of real amazement and pride. I mean, I think it's probably no different than anything else where maybe, you know, I'm making up some of these numbers, but let's say 20% of the population is really excited about what we did and that we achieved this. 20% of the or and then I would say the bulk of the population is almost unaware, completely unaware. Okay. And then and then, or they don't understand it enough to to to have an opinion one way or another. I guess this might be a better way to do it. And then and then there's, you know, I don't know if it's solely because we're in a a really educated population, and we have a huge academic institution here. And so there are people here that have a high degree of understanding and knowledge, but there, you know, there's criticism from some of that population. Again, mostly focused at the hydro because they wanna see new generation, and they wanna see absolutely local. And this is another criticism that we get, and I appreciate it. They want they want the solar cells here in the town of Boone. They wanna be able to walk up, touch them, and see them. Okay. Okay. And so I've I fully appreciate and understand that, and and it is something we're working on. So I think I think I think when it comes to if we maintain that the goal is climate neutrality and and zero fossil fuels, that we've achieved that. And so at least from electricity point of view. And, that it's a great first step. And I might go back a minute and revisit the the premium that we talked about. So Yeah. One one attitude that the town took, and I I appreciate that this went all the way up through to our town council, that, yeah, we're paying a premium right now. We're paying 2¢ more a kilowatt hour for the this greener energy. But the somebody's gotta make an investment. Right? Some somebody's got to build the market and build the demand for that energy so more gets made and more gets produced. And then once we have this groundswell of green energy being produced, that that we're gonna see that price drop. And I think the other thing that nobody really wants to talk about, but we're seeing it already, is natural gas prices are increasing. So the delta or the difference between the green power and the natural gas power, that's gonna shrink over in the near future. I mean, in the next three, four, five years, we're gonna start to see, natural gas energy and and renewable energies be way more competitive. And so Boone saw this and knew it and knew we needed to create that market. Our our community in general wanted this, so that's that's what gave us the the the desire and and willingness to to make that investment and and pay a little bit extra for this energy. Well, you know, thinking about other municipal officials who might be listening to this and wondering what advice you might have if they're thinking about achieving something similar. You know, just say we're at a conference, and I'm a I'm an I'm I'm a manager or an environmental manager, and I'm asking you, you know, what do I need to do? A huge question, and, you know, one size doesn't fit all. But Right. How would you answer that? So I you know, it's true. You have to know you have to understand the field that you're playing on. I would agree if you're if you're in Duke's or Duke's Progress or Duke Energy's footprint, it's a little different than here. And if you're down you say you're in Gastonia, and they manage their own, you know, utilities. So that's a whole different panel. So if you're a municipality that has its own energy, I know there's only a few in the state, but you know that. So I guess the first thing is understand what what playing field you have and what resources you have available to you. Big big towns, the Charlottes, the Greensboroughs, the Rollies of the world have an opportunity through Duke Power through their their green rider that that Duke has, and I know Charlotte's already taken advantage of that and secured a a 35 megawatt solar array that offsets about 25% of their energy use or their carbon footprint. So it's essentially in that case, they are buying. I believe they are just buying wrecks, through that program. But, anyway, the point you know, I think I think it's just knowing what is available and taking advantage of that. And the only other thing I would say is that if you're not actively negotiating and talking to whoever you can talk to, if it's your Duke representative or if you have a local energy provider and or if you have a cooperative, if you're not talking to those folks, then then you have no idea what possibilities exist. Mhmm. I think we can inspire them to make the investments that they need to make, you know, in the case of Blue Ridge Energy and that. They didn't know that we were gonna jump on this the way we did, but, boy, they were excited when we did because now they've got a revenue stream. It's no longer just offsetting their carbon footprint. We're fired up to have it offset ours. So so, you know, I have now started talking with them and say, so they're they've actually decided they're gonna make this array only available to government entities within their within their service areas. So any municipality or county government, within the seven or eight counties that Blue Ridge Energy serves has the same has the ability to do exactly what Boone did. And, so I said, so once you run out of you know, if you sell all the solar, will you build another array? And they're like, well, if we've seen that kind of demand, sure. So that's the way to grow the, you know, to grow the energy generation. Right? So I'm gonna certainly talk to my local neighbors here, my Blowing Rocks and my West Jefferson's and all these towns and Watauga County who who has Watauga County actually is actively moving in that direction, which is awesome. So we can all together, we can make even though we're all small communities, we can make a big impact together. It seems like, my nonexpert opinion, we're gonna keep moving toward, different sources of energy. And that 20% or whatever the number is that there there are gonna be more people in communities, we're inevitably all kinda scooting in that direction. And it's cool to have stories like this down and towns that we can look toward or look to, that have taken leadership with, with energy consumption. I mean, is that the sense that you get? It is. It is. And, you know, I joke a little bit as a sustainability manager here in Boone that, you know, a lot of people bring up energy efficiency, of buildings and things of that nature, and I that is absolutely critical. Every energy provider will tell you that it's cheaper to burn less energy than it is to find new energy sources. So I'm not I'm not this is tongue in cheek when I say this. You know, I'm not taking energy efficiency off the table, and I do believe it's a a critical part of my role. But if the grid is a 100% green and if you're wasting energy, you're wasting renewable energy. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Burning fossil fuels. For sure. Is there anything that I haven't asked about? Maybe anything that's occurred to you in the in the course of this conversation? I guess the only thing I would say is that that, when I first came on and I saw these goals, it was definitely a little bit of a gut check. You know? It was like, woah. Like you said, 2030 is only eight years away. That's not a lot of time to get this done. And, I I was like, man, I don't know that this is even possible. And I have a lot of people saying you know, or have asked me. I've had colleagues and coworkers who are like, is that you know, is council just setting us up for failure? Is this even possible? And, you know, if you ask me twelve months ago, I would have been like, I don't know if it's possible or not. But now after we've done what we've done, I no. I I have a absolutely a 100% different opinion. It it is possible. It it but I think what we all need to do is I think it's human nature, sadly, to look for all the negatives and even hear the negatives from our community, you know, even, like, people that hate the hydro. But if you know it's the right thing to do and it's getting you to your goal and the goal is stated in resolutions passed by town council, then that's the right thing to do and you need you just need to move forward. And and the reality is I also know that we are gonna see more local investment. We are gonna see an increase in solar in Boone because of these steps that we've taken now, because it it success builds upon success. Right? I mean, people are Yeah. They're they get excited about it. If if you if all if all we did was sit here and nay say, that there's no progress. Nobody's gonna ever get off their get off the couch, so to speak, and and jump in. Right. Well, George, thank you so much. I mean, this has been really educational, and I learned a lot more than I thought I would just in terms of how you guys got to where you are. So congratulations on on getting to where you are, especially if, you know, twelve months ago, it it still looked like, something that was gonna be pretty daunting. But the amount of progress you guys have made in this time, especially, you know, with where are we? You know, we're February 2022. Right. That that's that's pretty amazing. I mean, that's that's worthy of applause. Ben, thank you. You know, I'm I'm just grateful that I'm here and could have been part of it. And the support of the community is is, I would argue, is probably the other critical piece of right from administration and elected officials on down. It's, it's, it's been a good ride so far. Thank you for listening to this episode of Municipal Equation, the podcast about cities and towns adapting in the face of change from the North Carolina League of Municipalities, working as one, advancing all. If you know of a good story from any of North Carolina's 540 plus municipalities or something that would be a great fit for a municipal equation, email me. Again, my name is Ben Brown, and you can reach me at bbrown@nclm.org. The league is here for you from advocacy to insurance, events and training, consulting, and more. You can learn about all of it at n c l m dot o r g. Until next time. 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MedCost balances the care of your employees with the financial health of your local government by offering flexible administration, best in class care management, cost containment strategies, health and wellness programs, access to a broad provider network, and exceptional customer service. MedCost. This is Municipal Equation from the North Carolina League of Municipalities. Hey, everybody.\n\nIt's Ben Brown from the League of Municipalities in Raleigh. And today, we're gonna talk about something that's not a new topic, renewable energy. But many of us still grapple with or wonder about the different ways we can move to renewable energy sources away from, for instance, fossil fuels. Sustainability is such a big topic that many organizations, including municipalities, have sustainability managers on staff tasked with things like reducing that organization's carbon footprint. The topic has persisted so much that we know it's not a pocket trend.\n\nIt's something that cities and towns and private entities alike are taking very seriously. But it still may be kind of a logistically daunting thing to do. How does a municipality shift over to powering its buildings and so on with renewable energy sources, speaking in this case, independent of fossil fuels? Well, let's ask a town that appears to be the first in North Carolina to actually do that and way ahead of its own schedule for doing so. That would be the mountain town of Boone, which initially had a goal set by the town council of getting municipal operations to carbon neutrality by the year 2030, knowing that electricity is the biggest source of greenhouse gas emissions in North Carolina.\n\nBut they've already done it. They've already achieved that goal. As a municipality, as a government with town buildings and municipal facilities, Boone is off of fossil fuels, powering what they've got entirely by renewable energy. This has been such a popular topic of curiosity that I got multiple emails asking for an episode about it. So I got up with the person to talk to at the town of Boone, George Santucci, the town's sustainability and special projects manager.\n\nSpeaker 1: I like to joke with everybody that that title is as broad as possible and therefore means I can get involved in just about anything. Mhmm. But definitely focused on, greening the town and and eliminating our carbon footprint and our greenhouse gas footprint is my primary role.\n\nSpeaker 0: On that tip, just to kinda get to it, you initially, you what I say you meaning, Boone had a goal to be independent of carbon based energy sources by the year 2030, which is kinda crazy to think that's only, what, eight years away. Right. Right. Yeah, It sounds so futuristic, but and it sounds like like, you know, a a pretty grand runway, but, you know, it's still a big goal by itself to, to be independent of carbon based energy sources. How was that goal set?\n\nMaybe just for a little, background history.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sure. So town council passed a resolution in 2016, kinda riding the wave at the time, and and the the resolution was essentially that the town of Boone would seek to be carbon neutral by 2050, which is pretty standard for, you know, the time that time and that day and what was going on internationally. So\n\nSpeaker 0: was 2050?\n\nSpeaker 1: Just 2050. Yes. Originally. And then in 2019, they passed a resolution to clarify that goal. And, you know, one one important you know, the the resolution has many many comments and many statements and whereas is in it, but the final one is probably the most critical.\n\nAnd it's it's that they say that whereas the goal of a 100% comp conversion to clean renewable energy by the town by 12/31/2050 is no longer adequate given the rapid increase in temperatures and the acceleration of climate change. So they acknowledge that 2050, while, you know, while the norm, is was inadequate. So this this 2019 resolution went on to clarify then and put some iterative steps in there. And so the original step was for municipal operations to be what they termed climate neutral. So Okay.\n\nNot a 100% clean, but using all tools available to offset our carbon footprint if we couldn't eliminate our carbon footprint by 2030. And then the second step would be to find 100% clean energy and eliminate our carbon footprint completely by 2040 on municipal operations, and then leave the 2050 goal as a community wide goal. So the entire community would be operating from carbon neutral sources, and the the town would have a zero carbon footprint.\n\nSpeaker 0: So what has happened, since? I mean, the the headlines have indicated you guys have kinda hit a mark ahead of schedule. Is that is that correct?\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So the one other step I haven't brought up here, and I'm grateful for it, of course, because it's created my position, is that, you know, our town manager, John Ward, felt it was critical. Now the council had taken these steps and and set these goals, and he was trying to achieve them as a manager while he's trying to manage the town and run the town. And, you know, it was part of our public works department, part of our planning department.\n\nSo it was really nobody's 100% job. It was it was kind of a shared responsibility amongst staff Okay. Which has its challenges. So he in at the 2020 toward the 2020, he created, my position, and and I interviewed for that position and started the very first in January '21, to focus solely on on this goal. And so, that, I think, was a real critical step for the town.\n\nSpeaker 0: Is is it accurate that you guys have hit that goal, that original twenty fifty goal, then a twenty thirty goal that you guys have already hit it to some degree?\n\nSpeaker 1: So, yeah, interesting. Great question. So what I would argue is that we hit part of the 2040 goal already. So Okay. You know, 2030 goal was to offset or eliminate our carbon footprint by any means necessary, and then 2040 was to have absolutely no carbon footprint.\n\nSo what we've done is we have no carbon footprint for our the electricity that the town consumes municipally. So all the power used by our wastewater treatment plant, our water processing plant, our pumps, and and our, buildings, our public works, buildings, our our town municipal buildings. All those buildings are burning now energy created by either solar power or hydropower. So that's so it is a weird mix of those two goals. And then the the thing we've yet to offset and I'm now focused on completely is our fleet conversion and, other operations within so, like, heat systems within town buildings, things of that nature.\n\nSo we haven't eliminated all fossil fuels, but it's a huge step in that direction. And, again, on the ener on the electricity side, which is arguably the largest part of our footprint, we've achieved that.\n\nSpeaker 0: So you mentioned, solar and hydro as sources. What what is a transition of, like, of that kind take? I I imagine some infrastructure changes or, I'm just kinda putting a big question mark on that. What what does that look like?\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. So, I think with all successful endeavors, a whole lot of luck and good timing has to be a big part of it, and that's what I stepped into. It it is I'd love to tell you that it was it was a a brilliant stroke of genius on my part and my negotiating skills with our power utilities and everything. And I'm not saying there wasn't a little bit of that going on, but, there there had to be there had to be momentum on their part too. So let's Mhmm.\n\nLet's take one step back. Probably should paint this picture because we're talking to the entire state of North Carolina. And Yeah. Boone is unique in that, we are not on Duke Power, directly. We are served, ironically, even though we're not that big a town, we are served by two different public, energy electricity providers or utilities.\n\nOne is New River Light and Power, and they're owned by Appalachian State University. And the other is, Blue Ridge Energies, and they are a local, cooperative. Gotcha. So the negotiations were were for us, you know, at a really personal and local level, which I think enhanced and made made this, even more possible. On top of that, you know\n\nSpeaker 0: Just to go into that a little bit more. So so by that, do you mean that the connections were easier to make because they were essentially down the road and they could work with you kind of on-site. Is that what you're talking about? Or\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. It's a little bit of that. And, you know, they are well invested in this community. Their, you know, their their offices are you know, their people are here. They're maintaining the grid here.\n\nI'm not saying Duke's not doing that in in other towns across the state, but it's it's just a it's a lot closer to home, I guess, to these companies.\n\nSpeaker 0: Right. That makes sense. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: And so, you know, the the momentum that I took advantage of is that, obviously, Appalachian State is well known for sustainable activities and and there's they have a really strong academic sustainable program at App State, and and there's a lot of momentum over there to to make some pretty great changes. So New River Light and Power being a a subsidiary essentially of Appalachian State had that ethic. So Ed Miller, the the general manager of New River Light and Power was already, one step that was critical that they took that, I've locked into is is that they originally got most of their power through Blue Ridge Energy, which is essentially is Duke Energy Power. So so our carbon footprint would, at that time, was tied to Duke's Duke's, portfolio of of power generation.\n\nSpeaker 0: I see.\n\nSpeaker 1: Prior to me getting here, New River Light and Power had seen that as a liability and had moved to end that relationship and move on to a new agreement with an organization called Carolina Power Partners\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Which is a a a multiple smaller utilities that are, all part of Carolina Power Partners, and they primarily get their energy from a natural gas power plant down in Kings Mountain. So we were we would have been looking at all of our energy coming from natural gas, which obviously would still not achieve what our goals are.\n\nSpeaker 0: Right.\n\nSpeaker 1: But there was a clause in the contract that Ed exploited, and that clause was that he had to buy the bulk of his energy from the central gas plant for so long, but he had the capacity to go out and seek alternative energy sources. And so he took advantage of that and secured access to hydropower, knowing that if he could get enough of his larger customers to buy into this, then it would it would be worthwhile for him to do it. So the town when we learned that that was a possibility, we were all in. And, I worked heavily with him to make sure that he knew that the town would buy x number of, megawatts of of the hydropower and making it safer for him to go out and and and make that extra purchase.\n\nSpeaker 0: And and hydropower, just, to kinda, paint a picture, I mean, it this is not just like, you know, the the wheel on the water type thing. So this is, infrastructure that's been built. And, could could you describe that or or just for people like me who don't exactly know?\n\nSpeaker 1: Sure. Sure. So this is the part of the power that we get that people if they're gonna be super critical, they're gonna be critical of the hydro. And it and this is, so but but it is it is old infrastructure, and that's probably the biggest criticism we get. Right?\n\nIt didn't didn't create new green renewable energy. Even though it is a renewable energy source in and of itself, it it is older. So these dams, there there there's a portfolio of about four dams that this power will come from, through Brookfield Energy is the company that manages the dams, and, they're all kind of in Southwestern, North Carolina, Tennessee down in the down in that area. They're they're dams that have had long FERC, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, licenses, to produce this. And and these are these are large scale dams.\n\nCorrect? They're not they're not small low head dams or or, an old mill wheel in an old Appalachian community. They're they're substantial structures. And, the reality is at the end of the day that they're and they're not going anywhere. So to not take advantage of our resources sitting there, it seems kinda wasteful.\n\nThe other the other power source that we have and, so I I mentioned that Boone is served by two different utilities. The other weird irony of Boone is that, Blue Ridge Electric only serves about 25% of our geography of Boone, but it serves 75% of the town's energy consumption only because our two biggest energy consumers are on their side of town. And so that would be our wastewater treatment plant and our water intake on the river. So those two things use easily 75% of the town's municipal energy. And so it was critical to pull something off with Blue Ridge.\n\nAnd to their credit, like New River who was already migrating into this arena, they were negotiating and working to have a, 11 megawatt solar array installed on their grid. It's just off the mountain, just below us in Caldwell County, kinda near, Granite Falls, North Carolina. So, when I learned that this was underway, I immediately was like, we need to secure enough of that energy coming to the town of Boone to to ensure that we have we have what we need to to cover our load on on your grid. And and they were happy to negotiate with us and and work that out. And, we're the first customer to to secure, the the enough solar from that array to to cover our municipal use on on their grid.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wow. So, you know, I I'm thinking as you're talking, you know, sometimes just a general, maybe, kind of old school opinion about, say, solar, for example, is, you know, is that gonna be a 100% reliable? You know, what happens on a just generic statement. What happens on a cloudy day? Right.\n\nRight. Things like that that that people have kinda said over the years. What what are some of these misconceptions that people might have about about moving to something like this?\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. Certainly. And and they're more apropos in a in a micro sense. So when you're talking about your house and say, you wanted to remove your house completely from the grid and rely entirely on solar, it's a that's actually not possible at all because the sun doesn't shine twenty four seven unless you stop consuming energy when the sun isn't shining.\n\nSpeaker 0: Right.\n\nSpeaker 1: The way you can make that possible is have a storage have storage capacity, so essentially batteries or some alternative to that, to to save that energy and get you through the night. Right? So the beauty of what we've achieved is that we're working directly with our energy providers, our utilities. And so the grid is essentially that function and that role to us. And these companies, their job, their business is making sure you flip a switch at your house, that light comes on, guaranteed all the time.\n\nSo that's that's their business. So we we didn't build solar arrays that we have to personally maintain or hydropower dams that we have to personally maintain. We're we're working with people who do this work on a daily basis already. So so the so that was and and they're gonna guarantee that that our lights come on. Now it does get fuzzy and funny.\n\nSo I can sit here and say that our the solar obviously does not provide enough energy to to get you through a twenty four hour period of time. So what we do on the books is buy way more solar than we would use in a twenty four hour period. Ah, okay. So we're buying the equivalent amount of energy over a period of time, let's say a year or a month of solar to cover our consumption for that period of time.\n\nSpeaker 0: Gotcha.\n\nSpeaker 1: And the same with the hydro. Because the hydro, they don't generate even though the river is running twenty four seven and they could generate twenty four seven, they typically generate either in peak times or or, you know, when when it's necessary, when they wanna put it out on the grid. So it's, again, more of a, they're generating x number of megawatts. We need x number of megawatts for a a month or a year, however you wanna look at it, and then so we buy enough to do that. And I think the other nuance I wanna point out here that's critical that was critical to us is that we're buying the entire commodity.\n\nSo there there's a term out there called REX, the the, renewable energy credit or or, that that many people, many big corporations are just buying REX stuff. Now REX will offset your footprint, but you don't actually have or own that energy. Right? It's that energy's out on the grid. Don't get me wrong.\n\nYou put it out there. And and it's essentially true for us, but we're we're paying for the energy and the REX all at the same time. So we we own the we own the entire commodity, and and that that was critical. I you know, I understand this stuff gets it's it's really complicated. It's too nuanced.\n\nAnd for the regular general public to understand it is is almost impossible.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhmm.\n\nSpeaker 1: And, if we can eliminate some of that confusion, that's really what we're shooting for.\n\nSpeaker 0: Just to recap, the the there's this energy source that exists, and Boone purchases capacity in it, and it's enough to satisfy keeping the lights on, keeping the the HVAC going, and all that stuff. Is that kind of a a very basic way of saying\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. Yes.\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah. So so just talking about purchasing, you know, cost is probably, you know, a curiosity for outsiders. Could you talk about that and and what makes this worth it?\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. Sure. So, renewables are still obviously a small small part of of energy generation, and anything that's not in high demand tends to have a premium attached to it, unfortunately. So we are paying a premium for both the solar and the hydro, to to have access to that. And, essentially, what that works out to is, 2¢ per kilowatt hour increase over what our regular electric bill was.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: So if you're if you look at your own electric bill and, you know, they typically say you use x number of kilowatt hours a month or a day, that's the kilowatt hour we're talking about. That's we're paying 2¢ more than you are at your house.\n\nSpeaker 0: What are people saying about this? Like, what what kind of community feedback is coming in about, about this move?\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. It's a it's a it's an interesting mix of real amazement and pride. I mean, I think it's probably no different than anything else where maybe, you know, I'm making up some of these numbers, but let's say 20% of the population is really excited about what we did and that we achieved this. 20% of the or and then I would say the bulk of the population is almost unaware, completely unaware. Okay.\n\nAnd then and then, or they don't understand it enough to to to have an opinion one way or another. I guess this might be a better way to do it. And then and then there's, you know, I don't know if it's solely because we're in a a really educated population, and we have a huge academic institution here. And so there are people here that have a high degree of understanding and knowledge, but there, you know, there's criticism from some of that population. Again, mostly focused at the hydro because they wanna see new generation, and they wanna see absolutely local.\n\nAnd this is another criticism that we get, and I appreciate it. They want they want the solar cells here in the town of Boone. They wanna be able to walk up, touch them, and see them.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: And so I've I fully appreciate and understand that, and and it is something we're working on. So I think I think I think when it comes to if we maintain that the goal is climate neutrality and and zero fossil fuels, that we've achieved that. And so at least from electricity point of view. And, that it's a great first step. And I might go back a minute and revisit the the premium that we talked about.\n\nSo Yeah. One one attitude that the town took, and I I appreciate that this went all the way up through to our town council, that, yeah, we're paying a premium right now. We're paying 2¢ more a kilowatt hour for the this greener energy. But the somebody's gotta make an investment. Right?\n\nSome somebody's got to build the market and build the demand for that energy so more gets made and more gets produced. And then once we have this groundswell of green energy being produced, that that we're gonna see that price drop. And I think the other thing that nobody really wants to talk about, but we're seeing it already, is natural gas prices are increasing. So the delta or the difference between the green power and the natural gas power, that's gonna shrink over in the near future. I mean, in the next three, four, five years, we're gonna start to see, natural gas energy and and renewable energies be way more competitive.\n\nAnd so Boone saw this and knew it and knew we needed to create that market. Our our community in general wanted this, so that's that's what gave us the the the desire and and willingness to to make that investment and and pay a little bit extra for this energy.\n\nSpeaker 0: Well, you know, thinking about other municipal officials who might be listening to this and wondering what advice you might have if they're thinking about achieving something similar. You know, just say we're at a conference, and I'm a I'm an I'm I'm a manager or an environmental manager, and I'm asking you, you know, what do I need to do? A huge question, and, you know, one size doesn't fit all. But\n\nSpeaker 1: Right.\n\nSpeaker 0: How would you answer that?\n\nSpeaker 1: So I you know, it's true. You have to know you have to understand the field that you're playing on. I would agree if you're if you're in Duke's or Duke's Progress or Duke Energy's footprint, it's a little different than here. And if you're down you say you're in Gastonia, and they manage their own, you know, utilities. So that's a whole different panel.\n\nSo if you're a municipality that has its own energy, I know there's only a few in the state, but you know that. So I guess the first thing is understand what what playing field you have and what resources you have available to you. Big big towns, the Charlottes, the Greensboroughs, the Rollies of the world have an opportunity through Duke Power through their their green rider that that Duke has, and I know Charlotte's already taken advantage of that and secured a a 35 megawatt solar array that offsets about 25% of their energy use or their carbon footprint. So it's essentially in that case, they are buying. I believe they are just buying wrecks, through that program.\n\nBut, anyway, the point you know, I think I think it's just knowing what is available and taking advantage of that. And the only other thing I would say is that if you're not actively negotiating and talking to whoever you can talk to, if it's your Duke representative or if you have a local energy provider and or if you have a cooperative, if you're not talking to those folks, then then you have no idea what possibilities exist. Mhmm. I think we can inspire them to make the investments that they need to make, you know, in the case of Blue Ridge Energy and that. They didn't know that we were gonna jump on this the way we did, but, boy, they were excited when we did because now they've got a revenue stream.\n\nIt's no longer just offsetting their carbon footprint. We're fired up to have it offset ours. So so, you know, I have now started talking with them and say, so they're they've actually decided they're gonna make this array only available to government entities within their within their service areas. So any municipality or county government, within the seven or eight counties that Blue Ridge Energy serves has the same has the ability to do exactly what Boone did. And, so I said, so once you run out of you know, if you sell all the solar, will you build another array?\n\nAnd they're like, well, if we've seen that kind of demand, sure. So that's the way to grow the, you know, to grow the energy generation. Right? So I'm gonna certainly talk to my local neighbors here, my Blowing Rocks and my West Jefferson's and all these towns and Watauga County who who has Watauga County actually is actively moving in that direction, which is awesome. So we can all together, we can make even though we're all small communities, we can make a big impact together.\n\nSpeaker 0: It seems like, my nonexpert opinion, we're gonna keep moving toward, different sources of energy. And that 20% or whatever the number is that there there are gonna be more people in communities, we're inevitably all kinda scooting in that direction. And it's cool to have stories like this down and towns that we can look toward or look to, that have taken leadership with, with energy consumption. I mean, is that the sense that you get?\n\nSpeaker 1: It is. It is. And, you know, I joke a little bit as a sustainability manager here in Boone that, you know, a lot of people bring up energy efficiency, of buildings and things of that nature, and I that is absolutely critical. Every energy provider will tell you that it's cheaper to burn less energy than it is to find new energy sources. So I'm not I'm not this is tongue in cheek when I say this.\n\nYou know, I'm not taking energy efficiency off the table, and I do believe it's a a critical part of my role. But if the grid is a 100% green and if you're wasting energy, you're wasting renewable energy. You know what I mean?\n\nSpeaker 0: Yeah.\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. Burning fossil fuels.\n\nSpeaker 0: For sure. Is there anything that I haven't asked about? Maybe anything that's occurred to you in the in the course of this conversation?\n\nSpeaker 1: I guess the only thing I would say is that that, when I first came on and I saw these goals, it was definitely a little bit of a gut check. You know? It was like, woah. Like you said, 2030 is only eight years away. That's not a lot of time to get this done.\n\nAnd, I I was like, man, I don't know that this is even possible. And I have a lot of people saying you know, or have asked me. I've had colleagues and coworkers who are like, is that you know, is council just setting us up for failure? Is this even possible? And, you know, if you ask me twelve months ago, I would have been like, I don't know if it's possible or not.\n\nBut now after we've done what we've done, I no. I I have a absolutely a 100% different opinion. It it is possible. It it but I think what we all need to do is I think it's human nature, sadly, to look for all the negatives and even hear the negatives from our community, you know, even, like, people that hate the hydro. But if you know it's the right thing to do and it's getting you to your goal and the goal is stated in resolutions passed by town council, then that's the right thing to do and you need you just need to move forward.\n\nAnd and the reality is I also know that we are gonna see more local investment. We are gonna see an increase in solar in Boone because of these steps that we've taken now, because it it success builds upon success. Right? I mean, people are Yeah. They're they get excited about it.\n\nIf if you if all if all we did was sit here and nay say, that there's no progress. Nobody's gonna ever get off their get off the couch, so to speak, and and jump in.\n\nSpeaker 0: Right. Well, George, thank you so much. I mean, this has been really educational, and I learned a lot more than I thought I would just in terms of how you guys got to where you are. So congratulations on on getting to where you are, especially if, you know, twelve months ago, it it still looked like, something that was gonna be pretty daunting. But the amount of progress you guys have made in this time, especially, you know, with where\n\nSpeaker 1: are we?\n\nSpeaker 0: You know, we're February 2022. Right. That that's that's pretty amazing. I mean, that's that's worthy of applause.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ben, thank you. You know, I'm I'm just grateful that I'm here and could have been part of it. And the support of the community is is, I would argue, is probably the other critical piece of right from administration and elected officials on down. It's, it's, it's been a good ride so far.\n\nSpeaker 0: Thank you for listening to this episode of Municipal Equation, the podcast about cities and towns adapting in the face of change from the North Carolina League of Municipalities, working as one, advancing all. If you know of a good story from any of North Carolina's 540 plus municipalities or something that would be a great fit for a municipal equation, email me. Again, my name is Ben Brown, and you can reach me at bbrown@nclm.org. The league is here for you from advocacy to insurance, events and training, consulting, and more. You can learn about all of it at n c l m dot o r g.\n\nUntil next time. This is Ben Brown.", "paragraphs": [ { "sentences": [ { "text": "This episode of Municipal Equation is brought to you by MedCost.", "start": 1.5999999, "end": 5.06 }, { "text": "MedCost balances the care of your employees with the financial health of your local government by offering flexible administration, best in class care management, cost containment strategies, health and wellness programs, access to a broad provider network, and exceptional customer service.", "start": 5.7599998, "end": 22.535 }, { "text": "MedCost.", "start": 23.235, "end": 23.735 }, { "text": "This is Municipal Equation from the North Carolina League of Municipalities.", "start": 25.395, "end": 29.13 }, { "text": "Hey, everybody.", "start": 35.75, "end": 36.39 } ], "start": 1.5999999, "end": 36.39, "num_words": 66.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's Ben Brown from the League of Municipalities in Raleigh.", "start": 36.39, "end": 39.03 }, { "text": "And today, we're gonna talk about something that's not a new topic, renewable energy.", "start": 39.03, "end": 43.449997 }, { "text": "But many of us still grapple with or wonder about the different ways we can move to renewable energy sources away from, for instance, fossil fuels.", "start": 43.785, "end": 51.405 }, { "text": "Sustainability is such a big topic that many organizations, including municipalities, have sustainability managers on staff tasked with things like reducing that organization's carbon footprint.", "start": 51.864998, "end": 62.789997 }, { "text": "The topic has persisted so much that we know it's not a pocket trend.", "start": 63.329998, "end": 66.79 } ], "start": 36.39, "end": 66.79, "num_words": 89.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's something that cities and towns and private entities alike are taking very seriously.", "start": 67.09, "end": 71.43 }, { "text": "But it still may be kind of a logistically daunting thing to do.", "start": 72.015, "end": 75.775 }, { "text": "How does a municipality shift over to powering its buildings and so on with renewable energy sources, speaking in this case, independent of fossil fuels?", "start": 75.775, "end": 84.995 }, { "text": "Well, let's ask a town that appears to be the first in North Carolina to actually do that and way ahead of its own schedule for doing so.", "start": 85.46, "end": 93.159996 }, { "text": "That would be the mountain town of Boone, which initially had a goal set by the town council of getting municipal operations to carbon neutrality by the year 2030, knowing that electricity is the biggest source of greenhouse gas emissions in North Carolina.", "start": 93.78, "end": 108.195 } ], "start": 67.09, "end": 108.195, "num_words": 123.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "But they've already done it.", "start": 108.975, "end": 110.994995 }, { "text": "They've already achieved that goal.", "start": 111.134995, "end": 112.755 }, { "text": "As a municipality, as a government with town buildings and municipal facilities, Boone is off of fossil fuels, powering what they've got entirely by renewable energy.", "start": 113.15, "end": 122.77 }, { "text": "This has been such a popular topic of curiosity that I got multiple emails asking for an episode about it.", "start": 123.31, "end": 128.445 }, { "text": "So I got up with the person to talk to at the town of Boone, George Santucci, the town's sustainability and special projects manager.", "start": 128.68501, "end": 137.505 } ], "start": 108.975, "end": 137.505, "num_words": 80.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I like to joke with everybody that that title is as broad as possible and therefore means I can get involved in just about anything.", "start": 138.285, "end": 144.86 }, { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 145.48, "end": 145.64 }, { "text": "But definitely focused on, greening the town and and eliminating our carbon footprint and our greenhouse gas footprint is my primary role.", "start": 145.95999, "end": 154.06 } ], "start": 138.285, "end": 154.06, "num_words": 48.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "On that tip, just to kinda get to it, you initially, you what I say you meaning, Boone had a goal to be independent of carbon based energy sources by the year 2030, which is kinda crazy to think that's only, what, eight years away.", "start": 154.36, "end": 167.82501 }, { "text": "Right.", "start": 167.82501, "end": 168.225 }, { "text": "Right.", "start": 168.225, "end": 168.725 }, { "text": "Yeah, It sounds so futuristic, but and it sounds like like, you know, a a pretty grand runway, but, you know, it's still a big goal by itself to, to be independent of carbon based energy sources.", "start": 169.10501, "end": 180.20999 }, { "text": "How was that goal set?", "start": 180.26999, "end": 181.31 } ], "start": 154.36, "end": 181.31, "num_words": 89.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Maybe just for a little, background history.", "start": 181.31, "end": 183.48999 } ], "start": 181.31, "end": 183.48999, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sure.", "start": 184.02501, "end": 184.52501 }, { "text": "So town council passed a resolution in 2016, kinda riding the wave at the time, and and the the resolution was essentially that the town of Boone would seek to be carbon neutral by 2050, which is pretty standard for, you know, the time that time and that day and what was going on internationally.", "start": 185.30501, "end": 208.42 }, { "text": "So", "start": 209.28, "end": 209.43999 } ], "start": 184.02501, "end": 209.43999, "num_words": 57.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "was 2050?", "start": 209.59999, "end": 210.4 } ], "start": 209.59999, "end": 210.4, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Just 2050.", "start": 210.4, "end": 211.2 }, { "text": "Yes.", "start": 211.2, "end": 211.43999 }, { "text": "Originally.", "start": 211.43999, "end": 211.93999 }, { "text": "And then in 2019, they passed a resolution to clarify that goal.", "start": 212.675, "end": 217.735 }, { "text": "And, you know, one one important you know, the the resolution has many many comments and many statements and whereas is in it, but the final one is probably the most critical.", "start": 217.955, "end": 228.19 } ], "start": 210.4, "end": 228.19, "num_words": 48.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And it's it's that they say that whereas the goal of a 100% comp conversion to clean renewable energy by the town by 12/31/2050 is no longer adequate given the rapid increase in temperatures and the acceleration of climate change.", "start": 228.19, "end": 244.055 }, { "text": "So they acknowledge that 2050, while, you know, while the norm, is was inadequate.", "start": 244.355, "end": 251.25499 }, { "text": "So this this 2019 resolution went on to clarify then and put some iterative steps in there.", "start": 251.635, "end": 259.57 }, { "text": "And so the original step was for municipal operations to be what they termed climate neutral.", "start": 259.57, "end": 269.255 }, { "text": "So Okay.", "start": 269.875, "end": 270.71503 } ], "start": 228.19, "end": 270.71503, "num_words": 89.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Not a 100% clean, but using all tools available to offset our carbon footprint if we couldn't eliminate our carbon footprint by 2030.", "start": 271.155, "end": 282.69 }, { "text": "And then the second step would be to find 100% clean energy and eliminate our carbon footprint completely by 2040 on municipal operations, and then leave the 2050 goal as a community wide goal.", "start": 283.95, "end": 300.765 }, { "text": "So the entire community would be operating from carbon neutral sources, and the the town would have a zero carbon footprint.", "start": 300.765, "end": 308.70502 } ], "start": 271.155, "end": 308.70502, "num_words": 78.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So what has happened, since?", "start": 309.16, "end": 311.56 }, { "text": "I mean, the the headlines have indicated you guys have kinda hit a mark ahead of schedule.", "start": 311.56, "end": 315.48 }, { "text": "Is that is that correct?", "start": 315.48, "end": 316.62 } ], "start": 309.16, "end": 316.62, "num_words": 27.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 316.84, "end": 317.24002 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 317.24002, "end": 317.48 }, { "text": "So the one other step I haven't brought up here, and I'm grateful for it, of course, because it's created my position, is that, you know, our town manager, John Ward, felt it was critical.", "start": 317.48, "end": 328.75497 }, { "text": "Now the council had taken these steps and and set these goals, and he was trying to achieve them as a manager while he's trying to manage the town and run the town.", "start": 329.215, "end": 337.29498 }, { "text": "And, you know, it was part of our public works department, part of our planning department.", "start": 337.29498, "end": 343.61002 } ], "start": 316.84, "end": 343.61002, "num_words": 86.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So it was really nobody's 100% job.", "start": 343.61002, "end": 346.65002 }, { "text": "It was it was kind of a shared responsibility amongst staff Okay.", "start": 346.65002, "end": 351.13 }, { "text": "Which has its challenges.", "start": 351.38, "end": 352.97498 }, { "text": "So he in at the 2020 toward the 2020, he created, my position, and and I interviewed for that position and started the very first in January '21, to focus solely on on this goal.", "start": 353.19498, "end": 371.26 }, { "text": "And so, that, I think, was a real critical step for the town.", "start": 371.4, "end": 376.62 } ], "start": 343.61002, "end": 376.62, "num_words": 71.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Is is it accurate that you guys have hit that goal, that original twenty fifty goal, then a twenty thirty goal that you guys have already hit it to some degree?", "start": 377.32, "end": 385.135 } ], "start": 377.32, "end": 385.135, "num_words": 31.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So, yeah, interesting.", "start": 385.27502, "end": 386.255 }, { "text": "Great question.", "start": 386.315, "end": 387.05502 }, { "text": "So what I would argue is that we hit part of the 2040 goal already.", "start": 388.155, "end": 392.415 }, { "text": "So Okay.", "start": 392.715, "end": 393.61502 }, { "text": "You know, 2030 goal was to offset or eliminate our carbon footprint by any means necessary, and then 2040 was to have absolutely no carbon footprint.", "start": 394.075, "end": 405.09003 } ], "start": 385.27502, "end": 405.09003, "num_words": 48.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So what we've done is we have no carbon footprint for our the electricity that the town consumes municipally.", "start": 405.39, "end": 412.13 }, { "text": "So all the power used by our wastewater treatment plant, our water processing plant, our pumps, and and our, buildings, our public works, buildings, our our town municipal buildings.", "start": 412.38498, "end": 425.66498 }, { "text": "All those buildings are burning now energy created by either solar power or hydropower.", "start": 425.66498, "end": 431.77 }, { "text": "So that's so it is a weird mix of those two goals.", "start": 432.71, "end": 438.01 }, { "text": "And then the the thing we've yet to offset and I'm now focused on completely is our fleet conversion and, other operations within so, like, heat systems within town buildings, things of that nature.", "start": 438.07, "end": 452.085 } ], "start": 405.39, "end": 452.085, "num_words": 108.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So we haven't eliminated all fossil fuels, but it's a huge step in that direction.", "start": 452.085, "end": 457.15 }, { "text": "And, again, on the ener on the electricity side, which is arguably the largest part of our footprint, we've achieved that.", "start": 457.15, "end": 463.81 } ], "start": 452.085, "end": 463.81, "num_words": 36.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So you mentioned, solar and hydro as sources.", "start": 464.11, "end": 467.65 }, { "text": "What what is a transition of, like, of that kind take?", "start": 467.71, "end": 472.195 }, { "text": "I I imagine some infrastructure changes or, I'm just kinda putting a big question mark on that.", "start": 472.195, "end": 477.955 }, { "text": "What what does that look like?", "start": 477.955, "end": 479.255 } ], "start": 464.11, "end": 479.255, "num_words": 42.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 479.475, "end": 479.875 }, { "text": "So, I think with all successful endeavors, a whole lot of luck and good timing has to be a big part of it, and that's what I stepped into.", "start": 479.875, "end": 491.23 }, { "text": "It it is I'd love to tell you that it was it was a a brilliant stroke of genius on my part and my negotiating skills with our power utilities and everything.", "start": 493.05, "end": 501.425 }, { "text": "And I'm not saying there wasn't a little bit of that going on, but, there there had to be there had to be momentum on their part too.", "start": 501.425, "end": 510.065 }, { "text": "So let's Mhmm.", "start": 510.065, "end": 511.38498 } ], "start": 479.475, "end": 511.38498, "num_words": 93.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Let's take one step back.", "start": 511.50497, "end": 513.09 }, { "text": "Probably should paint this picture because we're talking to the entire state of North Carolina.", "start": 513.25, "end": 517.29004 }, { "text": "And Yeah.", "start": 517.29004, "end": 518.17004 }, { "text": "Boone is unique in that, we are not on Duke Power, directly.", "start": 518.37006, "end": 524.47003 }, { "text": "We are served, ironically, even though we're not that big a town, we are served by two different public, energy electricity providers or utilities.", "start": 525.41003, "end": 535.045 } ], "start": 511.50497, "end": 535.045, "num_words": 58.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "One is New River Light and Power, and they're owned by Appalachian State University.", "start": 536.385, "end": 540.64496 }, { "text": "And the other is, Blue Ridge Energies, and they are a local, cooperative.", "start": 541.6, "end": 547.46 }, { "text": "Gotcha.", "start": 547.68, "end": 548.18 }, { "text": "So the negotiations were were for us, you know, at a really personal and local level, which I think enhanced and made made this, even more possible.", "start": 548.56, "end": 560.075 }, { "text": "On top of that, you know", "start": 561.17505, "end": 562.375 } ], "start": 536.385, "end": 562.375, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Just to go into that a little bit more.", "start": 562.775, "end": 564.215 }, { "text": "So so by that, do you mean that the connections were easier to make because they were essentially down the road and they could work with you kind of on-site.", "start": 564.215, "end": 572.91 }, { "text": "Is that what you're talking about?", "start": 573.05, "end": 574.17 }, { "text": "Or", "start": 574.17, "end": 574.33 } ], "start": 562.775, "end": 574.33, "num_words": 46.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 574.57, "end": 574.89 }, { "text": "It's a little bit of that.", "start": 574.89, "end": 575.93 }, { "text": "And, you know, they are well invested in this community.", "start": 575.93, "end": 580.02997 }, { "text": "Their, you know, their their offices are you know, their people are here.", "start": 581.85, "end": 585.625 }, { "text": "They're maintaining the grid here.", "start": 585.625, "end": 586.985 } ], "start": 574.57, "end": 586.985, "num_words": 35.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I'm not saying Duke's not doing that in in other towns across the state, but it's it's just a it's a lot closer to home, I guess, to these companies.", "start": 586.985, "end": 594.525 } ], "start": 586.985, "end": 594.525, "num_words": 30.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right.", "start": 595.305, "end": 595.545 }, { "text": "That makes sense.", "start": 595.545, "end": 596.265 }, { "text": "Okay.", "start": 596.265, "end": 596.765 } ], "start": 595.305, "end": 596.765, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And so, you know, the the momentum that I took advantage of is that, obviously, Appalachian State is well known for sustainable activities and and there's they have a really strong academic sustainable program at App State, and and there's a lot of momentum over there to to make some pretty great changes.", "start": 596.825, "end": 616.315 }, { "text": "So New River Light and Power being a a subsidiary essentially of Appalachian State had that ethic.", "start": 616.315, "end": 622.47504 }, { "text": "So Ed Miller, the the general manager of New River Light and Power was already, one step that was critical that they took that, I've locked into is is that they originally got most of their power through Blue Ridge Energy, which is essentially is Duke Energy Power.", "start": 622.47504, "end": 643.94 }, { "text": "So so our carbon footprint would, at that time, was tied to Duke's Duke's, portfolio of of power generation.", "start": 644.865, "end": 652.405 } ], "start": 596.825, "end": 652.405, "num_words": 137.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I see.", "start": 653.10504, "end": 653.585 } ], "start": 653.10504, "end": 653.585, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Prior to me getting here, New River Light and Power had seen that as a liability and had moved to end that relationship and move on to a new agreement with an organization called Carolina Power Partners", "start": 653.585, "end": 670.78 } ], "start": 653.585, "end": 670.78, "num_words": 37.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 671.83496, "end": 672.33496 } ], "start": 671.83496, "end": 672.33496, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Which is a a a multiple smaller utilities that are, all part of Carolina Power Partners, and they primarily get their energy from a natural gas power plant down in Kings Mountain.", "start": 672.63495, "end": 688.95996 }, { "text": "So we were we would have been looking at all of our energy coming from natural gas, which obviously would still not achieve what our goals are.", "start": 690.45996, "end": 700.08 } ], "start": 672.63495, "end": 700.08, "num_words": 59.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right.", "start": 700.435, "end": 700.755 } ], "start": 700.435, "end": 700.755, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "But there was a clause in the contract that Ed exploited, and that clause was that he had to buy the bulk of his energy from the central gas plant for so long, but he had the capacity to go out and seek alternative energy sources.", "start": 700.755, "end": 716.86 }, { "text": "And so he took advantage of that and secured access to hydropower, knowing that if he could get enough of his larger customers to buy into this, then it would it would be worthwhile for him to do it.", "start": 717.96, "end": 732.555 }, { "text": "So the town when we learned that that was a possibility, we were all in.", "start": 732.555, "end": 736.975 }, { "text": "And, I worked heavily with him to make sure that he knew that the town would buy x number of, megawatts of of the hydropower and making it safer for him to go out and and and make that extra purchase.", "start": 737.435, "end": 753.06 } ], "start": 700.755, "end": 753.06, "num_words": 141.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And and hydropower, just, to kinda, paint a picture, I mean, it this is not just like, you know, the the wheel on the water type thing.", "start": 753.58496, "end": 761.105 }, { "text": "So this is, infrastructure that's been built.", "start": 761.665, "end": 764.485 }, { "text": "And, could could you describe that or or just for people like me who don't exactly know?", "start": 764.94495, "end": 769.26 } ], "start": 753.58496, "end": 769.26, "num_words": 51.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sure.", "start": 769.34, "end": 769.66003 }, { "text": "Sure.", "start": 769.66003, "end": 770.16003 }, { "text": "So this is the part of the power that we get that people if they're gonna be super critical, they're gonna be critical of the hydro.", "start": 770.22003, "end": 777.2 }, { "text": "And it and this is, so but but it is it is old infrastructure, and that's probably the biggest criticism we get.", "start": 778.3, "end": 785.455 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 785.455, "end": 785.695 } ], "start": 769.34, "end": 785.695, "num_words": 51.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It didn't didn't create new green renewable energy.", "start": 785.695, "end": 790.27496 }, { "text": "Even though it is a renewable energy source in and of itself, it it is older.", "start": 790.33496, "end": 795.695 }, { "text": "So these dams, there there there's a portfolio of about four dams that this power will come from, through Brookfield Energy is the company that manages the dams, and, they're all kind of in Southwestern, North Carolina, Tennessee down in the down in that area.", "start": 795.695, "end": 814.415 }, { "text": "They're they're dams that have had long FERC, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, licenses, to produce this.", "start": 815.195, "end": 823.835 }, { "text": "And and these are these are large scale dams.", "start": 823.835, "end": 826.315 } ], "start": 785.695, "end": 826.315, "num_words": 95.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Correct?", "start": 826.315, "end": 826.635 }, { "text": "They're not they're not small low head dams or or, an old mill wheel in an old Appalachian community.", "start": 826.635, "end": 833.57 }, { "text": "They're they're substantial structures.", "start": 833.71, "end": 835.89 }, { "text": "And, the reality is at the end of the day that they're and they're not going anywhere.", "start": 836.02997, "end": 840.45 }, { "text": "So to not take advantage of our resources sitting there, it seems kinda wasteful.", "start": 841.505, "end": 845.605 } ], "start": 826.315, "end": 845.605, "num_words": 55.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "The other the other power source that we have and, so I I mentioned that Boone is served by two different utilities.", "start": 845.985, "end": 851.925 }, { "text": "The other weird irony of Boone is that, Blue Ridge Electric only serves about 25% of our geography of Boone, but it serves 75% of the town's energy consumption only because our two biggest energy consumers are on their side of town.", "start": 852.705, "end": 873.625 }, { "text": "And so that would be our wastewater treatment plant and our water intake on the river.", "start": 873.625, "end": 878.685 }, { "text": "So those two things use easily 75% of the town's municipal energy.", "start": 879.785, "end": 884.97 }, { "text": "And so it was critical to pull something off with Blue Ridge.", "start": 884.97, "end": 888.88995 } ], "start": 845.985, "end": 888.88995, "num_words": 104.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And to their credit, like New River who was already migrating into this arena, they were negotiating and working to have a, 11 megawatt solar array installed on their grid.", "start": 888.88995, "end": 904.29504 }, { "text": "It's just off the mountain, just below us in Caldwell County, kinda near, Granite Falls, North Carolina.", "start": 904.995, "end": 911.8 }, { "text": "So, when I learned that this was underway, I immediately was like, we need to secure enough of that energy coming to the town of Boone to to ensure that we have we have what we need to to cover our load on on your grid.", "start": 912.58, "end": 928.705 }, { "text": "And and they were happy to negotiate with us and and work that out.", "start": 928.705, "end": 932.405 }, { "text": "And, we're the first customer to to secure, the the enough solar from that array to to cover our municipal use on on their grid.", "start": 932.78503, "end": 943.80005 } ], "start": 888.88995, "end": 943.80005, "num_words": 132.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Wow.", "start": 944.26, "end": 944.66003 }, { "text": "So, you know, I I'm thinking as you're talking, you know, sometimes just a general, maybe, kind of old school opinion about, say, solar, for example, is, you know, is that gonna be a 100% reliable?", "start": 944.66003, "end": 957.205 }, { "text": "You know, what happens on a just generic statement.", "start": 957.74506, "end": 960.54504 }, { "text": "What happens on a cloudy day?", "start": 960.54504, "end": 961.825 }, { "text": "Right.", "start": 961.825, "end": 962.065 } ], "start": 944.26, "end": 962.065, "num_words": 53.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right.", "start": 962.065, "end": 962.145 }, { "text": "Things like that that that people have kinda said over the years.", "start": 962.145, "end": 964.44 }, { "text": "What what are some of these misconceptions that people might have about about moving to something like this?", "start": 964.92, "end": 969.5 } ], "start": 962.065, "end": 969.5, "num_words": 31.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 970.2, "end": 970.44 }, { "text": "Certainly.", "start": 970.44, "end": 970.84 }, { "text": "And and they're more apropos in a in a micro sense.", "start": 970.84, "end": 975.48 }, { "text": "So when you're talking about your house and say, you wanted to remove your house completely from the grid and rely entirely on solar, it's a that's actually not possible at all because the sun doesn't shine twenty four seven unless you stop consuming energy when the sun isn't shining.", "start": 975.48, "end": 992.015 } ], "start": 970.2, "end": 992.015, "num_words": 63.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right.", "start": 992.075, "end": 992.575 } ], "start": 992.075, "end": 992.575, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "The way you can make that possible is have a storage have storage capacity, so essentially batteries or some alternative to that, to to save that energy and get you through the night.", "start": 992.69, "end": 1007.49 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1007.49, "end": 1007.99 }, { "text": "So the beauty of what we've achieved is that we're working directly with our energy providers, our utilities.", "start": 1008.965, "end": 1015.86505 }, { "text": "And so the grid is essentially that function and that role to us.", "start": 1016.645, "end": 1021.84503 }, { "text": "And these companies, their job, their business is making sure you flip a switch at your house, that light comes on, guaranteed all the time.", "start": 1021.84503, "end": 1031.3099 } ], "start": 992.69, "end": 1031.3099, "num_words": 90.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So that's that's their business.", "start": 1031.61, "end": 1033.23 }, { "text": "So we we didn't build solar arrays that we have to personally maintain or hydropower dams that we have to personally maintain.", "start": 1034.17, "end": 1043.375 }, { "text": "We're we're working with people who do this work on a daily basis already.", "start": 1043.435, "end": 1048.255 }, { "text": "So so the so that was and and they're gonna guarantee that that our lights come on.", "start": 1048.3151, "end": 1053.7 }, { "text": "Now it does get fuzzy and funny.", "start": 1053.76, "end": 1056.02 } ], "start": 1031.61, "end": 1056.02, "num_words": 65.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So I can sit here and say that our the solar obviously does not provide enough energy to to get you through a twenty four hour period of time.", "start": 1056.96, "end": 1064.96 }, { "text": "So what we do on the books is buy way more solar than we would use in a twenty four hour period.", "start": 1064.96, "end": 1073.045 }, { "text": "Ah, okay.", "start": 1073.425, "end": 1074.405 }, { "text": "So we're buying the equivalent amount of energy over a period of time, let's say a year or a month of solar to cover our consumption for that period of time.", "start": 1074.4651, "end": 1083.67 } ], "start": 1056.96, "end": 1083.67, "num_words": 84.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Gotcha.", "start": 1083.67, "end": 1084.17 } ], "start": 1083.67, "end": 1084.17, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And the same with the hydro.", "start": 1084.23, "end": 1085.61 }, { "text": "Because the hydro, they don't generate even though the river is running twenty four seven and they could generate twenty four seven, they typically generate either in peak times or or, you know, when when it's necessary, when they wanna put it out on the grid.", "start": 1085.91, "end": 1098.9851 }, { "text": "So it's, again, more of a, they're generating x number of megawatts.", "start": 1098.9851, "end": 1104.6051 }, { "text": "We need x number of megawatts for a a month or a year, however you wanna look at it, and then so we buy enough to do that.", "start": 1104.665, "end": 1112.65 }, { "text": "And I think the other nuance I wanna point out here that's critical that was critical to us is that we're buying the entire commodity.", "start": 1112.65, "end": 1120.67 } ], "start": 1084.23, "end": 1120.67, "num_words": 117.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So there there's a term out there called REX, the the, renewable energy credit or or, that that many people, many big corporations are just buying REX stuff.", "start": 1121.5549, "end": 1134.295 }, { "text": "Now REX will offset your footprint, but you don't actually have or own that energy.", "start": 1134.355, "end": 1139.49 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1139.49, "end": 1139.89 }, { "text": "It's that energy's out on the grid.", "start": 1139.89, "end": 1141.65 }, { "text": "Don't get me wrong.", "start": 1141.65, "end": 1142.2899 } ], "start": 1121.5549, "end": 1142.2899, "num_words": 55.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You put it out there.", "start": 1142.2899, "end": 1143.51 }, { "text": "And and it's essentially true for us, but we're we're paying for the energy and the REX all at the same time.", "start": 1143.73, "end": 1149.91 }, { "text": "So we we own the we own the entire commodity, and and that that was critical.", "start": 1150.245, "end": 1155.385 }, { "text": "I you know, I understand this stuff gets it's it's really complicated.", "start": 1155.525, "end": 1160.585 }, { "text": "It's too nuanced.", "start": 1160.885, "end": 1161.845 } ], "start": 1142.2899, "end": 1161.845, "num_words": 58.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And for the regular general public to understand it is is almost impossible.", "start": 1161.845, "end": 1166.14 } ], "start": 1161.845, "end": 1166.14, "num_words": 13.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 1166.4401, "end": 1166.76 } ], "start": 1166.4401, "end": 1166.76, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And, if we can eliminate some of that confusion, that's really what we're shooting for.", "start": 1166.76, "end": 1171.82 } ], "start": 1166.76, "end": 1171.82, "num_words": 15.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Just to recap, the the there's this energy source that exists, and Boone purchases capacity in it, and it's enough to satisfy keeping the lights on, keeping the the HVAC going, and all that stuff.", "start": 1172.12, "end": 1184.645 }, { "text": "Is that kind of a a very basic way of saying", "start": 1184.645, "end": 1186.965 } ], "start": 1172.12, "end": 1186.965, "num_words": 46.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1187.285, "end": 1187.605 }, { "text": "Absolutely.", "start": 1187.605, "end": 1188.105 }, { "text": "Yes.", "start": 1188.245, "end": 1188.485 } ], "start": 1187.285, "end": 1188.485, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1188.485, "end": 1188.805 }, { "text": "So so just talking about purchasing, you know, cost is probably, you know, a curiosity for outsiders.", "start": 1188.805, "end": 1193.37 }, { "text": "Could you talk about that and and what makes this worth it?", "start": 1193.83, "end": 1196.4099 } ], "start": 1188.485, "end": 1196.4099, "num_words": 30.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1196.71, "end": 1196.95 }, { "text": "Sure.", "start": 1196.95, "end": 1197.45 }, { "text": "So, renewables are still obviously a small small part of of energy generation, and anything that's not in high demand tends to have a premium attached to it, unfortunately.", "start": 1197.9099, "end": 1213.155 }, { "text": "So we are paying a premium for both the solar and the hydro, to to have access to that.", "start": 1213.8551, "end": 1220.25 }, { "text": "And, essentially, what that works out to is, 2¢ per kilowatt hour increase over what our regular electric bill was.", "start": 1220.49, "end": 1230.83 } ], "start": 1196.71, "end": 1230.83, "num_words": 70.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 1230.89, "end": 1231.39 } ], "start": 1230.89, "end": 1231.39, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So if you're if you look at your own electric bill and, you know, they typically say you use x number of kilowatt hours a month or a day, that's the kilowatt hour we're talking about.", "start": 1231.77, "end": 1242.655 }, { "text": "That's we're paying 2¢ more than you are at your house.", "start": 1242.655, "end": 1245.7949 } ], "start": 1231.77, "end": 1245.7949, "num_words": 47.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "What are people saying about this?", "start": 1246.6, "end": 1248.5199 }, { "text": "Like, what what kind of community feedback is coming in about, about this move?", "start": 1248.5199, "end": 1252.1399 } ], "start": 1246.6, "end": 1252.1399, "num_words": 20.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1252.6799, "end": 1252.9199 }, { "text": "It's a it's a it's an interesting mix of real amazement and pride.", "start": 1252.9199, "end": 1258.0599 }, { "text": "I mean, I think it's probably no different than anything else where maybe, you know, I'm making up some of these numbers, but let's say 20% of the population is really excited about what we did and that we achieved this.", "start": 1259.445, "end": 1271.545 }, { "text": "20% of the or and then I would say the bulk of the population is almost unaware, completely unaware.", "start": 1272.32, "end": 1279.14 }, { "text": "Okay.", "start": 1280.0, "end": 1280.5 } ], "start": 1252.6799, "end": 1280.5, "num_words": 75.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And then and then, or they don't understand it enough to to to have an opinion one way or another.", "start": 1281.52, "end": 1286.8 }, { "text": "I guess this might be a better way to do it.", "start": 1286.8, "end": 1288.635 }, { "text": "And then and then there's, you know, I don't know if it's solely because we're in a a really educated population, and we have a huge academic institution here.", "start": 1288.635, "end": 1298.735 }, { "text": "And so there are people here that have a high degree of understanding and knowledge, but there, you know, there's criticism from some of that population.", "start": 1299.0349, "end": 1309.86 }, { "text": "Again, mostly focused at the hydro because they wanna see new generation, and they wanna see absolutely local.", "start": 1310.72, "end": 1317.655 } ], "start": 1281.52, "end": 1317.655, "num_words": 104.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And this is another criticism that we get, and I appreciate it.", "start": 1317.655, "end": 1320.9551 }, { "text": "They want they want the solar cells here in the town of Boone.", "start": 1321.175, "end": 1325.735 }, { "text": "They wanna be able to walk up, touch them, and see them.", "start": 1325.735, "end": 1328.3151 } ], "start": 1317.655, "end": 1328.3151, "num_words": 37.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Okay.", "start": 1328.535, "end": 1329.015 }, { "text": "Okay.", "start": 1329.015, "end": 1329.515 } ], "start": 1328.535, "end": 1329.515, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And so I've I fully appreciate and understand that, and and it is something we're working on.", "start": 1329.5751, "end": 1336.57 }, { "text": "So I think I think I think when it comes to if we maintain that the goal is climate neutrality and and zero fossil fuels, that we've achieved that.", "start": 1336.95, "end": 1349.105 }, { "text": "And so at least from electricity point of view.", "start": 1349.165, "end": 1352.145 }, { "text": "And, that it's a great first step.", "start": 1352.685, "end": 1355.8251 }, { "text": "And I might go back a minute and revisit the the premium that we talked about.", "start": 1357.245, "end": 1363.12 } ], "start": 1329.5751, "end": 1363.12, "num_words": 78.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So Yeah.", "start": 1363.12, "end": 1363.92 }, { "text": "One one attitude that the town took, and I I appreciate that this went all the way up through to our town council, that, yeah, we're paying a premium right now.", "start": 1364.16, "end": 1373.76 }, { "text": "We're paying 2¢ more a kilowatt hour for the this greener energy.", "start": 1373.76, "end": 1379.495 }, { "text": "But the somebody's gotta make an investment.", "start": 1379.495, "end": 1382.135 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1382.135, "end": 1382.615 } ], "start": 1363.12, "end": 1382.615, "num_words": 53.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Some somebody's got to build the market and build the demand for that energy so more gets made and more gets produced.", "start": 1382.615, "end": 1391.1101 }, { "text": "And then once we have this groundswell of green energy being produced, that that we're gonna see that price drop.", "start": 1391.1101, "end": 1398.41 }, { "text": "And I think the other thing that nobody really wants to talk about, but we're seeing it already, is natural gas prices are increasing.", "start": 1399.51, "end": 1406.8049 }, { "text": "So the delta or the difference between the green power and the natural gas power, that's gonna shrink over in the near future.", "start": 1407.745, "end": 1414.945 }, { "text": "I mean, in the next three, four, five years, we're gonna start to see, natural gas energy and and renewable energies be way more competitive.", "start": 1414.945, "end": 1425.34 } ], "start": 1382.615, "end": 1425.34, "num_words": 114.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And so Boone saw this and knew it and knew we needed to create that market.", "start": 1425.88, "end": 1430.9199 }, { "text": "Our our community in general wanted this, so that's that's what gave us the the the desire and and willingness to to make that investment and and pay a little bit extra for this energy.", "start": 1430.9199, "end": 1444.505 } ], "start": 1425.88, "end": 1444.505, "num_words": 51.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Well, you know, thinking about other municipal officials who might be listening to this and wondering what advice you might have if they're thinking about achieving something similar.", "start": 1445.93, "end": 1454.27 }, { "text": "You know, just say we're at a conference, and I'm a I'm an I'm I'm a manager or an environmental manager, and I'm asking you, you know, what do I need to do?", "start": 1454.89, "end": 1464.565 }, { "text": "A huge question, and, you know, one size doesn't fit all.", "start": 1464.865, "end": 1467.905 }, { "text": "But", "start": 1467.905, "end": 1467.985 } ], "start": 1445.93, "end": 1467.985, "num_words": 73.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right.", "start": 1468.3049, "end": 1468.5449 } ], "start": 1468.3049, "end": 1468.5449, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "How would you answer that?", "start": 1468.785, "end": 1470.005 } ], "start": 1468.785, "end": 1470.005, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So I you know, it's true.", "start": 1470.625, "end": 1472.865 }, { "text": "You have to know you have to understand the field that you're playing on.", "start": 1472.865, "end": 1475.82 }, { "text": "I would agree if you're if you're in Duke's or Duke's Progress or Duke Energy's footprint, it's a little different than here.", "start": 1476.46, "end": 1483.6799 }, { "text": "And if you're down you say you're in Gastonia, and they manage their own, you know, utilities.", "start": 1484.1399, "end": 1489.855 }, { "text": "So that's a whole different panel.", "start": 1489.855, "end": 1491.2949 } ], "start": 1470.625, "end": 1491.2949, "num_words": 65.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So if you're a municipality that has its own energy, I know there's only a few in the state, but you know that.", "start": 1491.2949, "end": 1496.975 }, { "text": "So I guess the first thing is understand what what playing field you have and what resources you have available to you.", "start": 1496.975, "end": 1504.38 }, { "text": "Big big towns, the Charlottes, the Greensboroughs, the Rollies of the world have an opportunity through Duke Power through their their green rider that that Duke has, and I know Charlotte's already taken advantage of that and secured a a 35 megawatt solar array that offsets about 25% of their energy use or their carbon footprint.", "start": 1506.22, "end": 1527.955 }, { "text": "So it's essentially in that case, they are buying.", "start": 1527.955, "end": 1530.455 }, { "text": "I believe they are just buying wrecks, through that program.", "start": 1530.79, "end": 1534.39 } ], "start": 1491.2949, "end": 1534.39, "num_words": 120.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "But, anyway, the point you know, I think I think it's just knowing what is available and taking advantage of that.", "start": 1534.39, "end": 1540.87 }, { "text": "And the only other thing I would say is that if you're not actively negotiating and talking to whoever you can talk to, if it's your Duke representative or if you have a local energy provider and or if you have a cooperative, if you're not talking to those folks, then then you have no idea what possibilities exist.", "start": 1540.87, "end": 1560.02 }, { "text": "Mhmm.", "start": 1560.88, "end": 1561.12 }, { "text": "I think we can inspire them to make the investments that they need to make, you know, in the case of Blue Ridge Energy and that.", "start": 1561.12, "end": 1568.08 }, { "text": "They didn't know that we were gonna jump on this the way we did, but, boy, they were excited when we did because now they've got a revenue stream.", "start": 1568.08, "end": 1575.745 } ], "start": 1534.39, "end": 1575.745, "num_words": 136.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's no longer just offsetting their carbon footprint.", "start": 1576.605, "end": 1579.265 }, { "text": "We're fired up to have it offset ours.", "start": 1579.725, "end": 1581.985 }, { "text": "So so, you know, I have now started talking with them and say, so they're they've actually decided they're gonna make this array only available to government entities within their within their service areas.", "start": 1582.445, "end": 1597.08 }, { "text": "So any municipality or county government, within the seven or eight counties that Blue Ridge Energy serves has the same has the ability to do exactly what Boone did.", "start": 1597.08, "end": 1607.3351 }, { "text": "And, so I said, so once you run out of you know, if you sell all the solar, will you build another array?", "start": 1607.875, "end": 1614.13 } ], "start": 1576.605, "end": 1614.13, "num_words": 102.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And they're like, well, if we've seen that kind of demand, sure.", "start": 1614.13, "end": 1616.85 }, { "text": "So that's the way to grow the, you know, to grow the energy generation.", "start": 1616.85, "end": 1620.29 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1620.29, "end": 1620.61 }, { "text": "So I'm gonna certainly talk to my local neighbors here, my Blowing Rocks and my West Jefferson's and all these towns and Watauga County who who has Watauga County actually is actively moving in that direction, which is awesome.", "start": 1620.61, "end": 1632.955 }, { "text": "So we can all together, we can make even though we're all small communities, we can make a big impact together.", "start": 1632.955, "end": 1639.215 } ], "start": 1614.13, "end": 1639.215, "num_words": 87.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It seems like, my nonexpert opinion, we're gonna keep moving toward, different sources of energy.", "start": 1640.235, "end": 1646.85 }, { "text": "And that 20% or whatever the number is that there there are gonna be more people in communities, we're inevitably all kinda scooting in that direction.", "start": 1647.1499, "end": 1654.4299 }, { "text": "And it's cool to have stories like this down and towns that we can look toward or look to, that have taken leadership with, with energy consumption.", "start": 1654.4299, "end": 1663.545 }, { "text": "I mean, is that the sense that you get?", "start": 1663.765, "end": 1665.445 } ], "start": 1640.235, "end": 1665.445, "num_words": 77.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It is.", "start": 1665.445, "end": 1665.925 }, { "text": "It is.", "start": 1665.925, "end": 1666.405 }, { "text": "And, you know, I joke a little bit as a sustainability manager here in Boone that, you know, a lot of people bring up energy efficiency, of buildings and things of that nature, and I that is absolutely critical.", "start": 1666.405, "end": 1681.42 }, { "text": "Every energy provider will tell you that it's cheaper to burn less energy than it is to find new energy sources.", "start": 1681.42, "end": 1688.535 }, { "text": "So I'm not I'm not this is tongue in cheek when I say this.", "start": 1689.7151, "end": 1693.0751 } ], "start": 1665.445, "end": 1693.0751, "num_words": 78.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know, I'm not taking energy efficiency off the table, and I do believe it's a a critical part of my role.", "start": 1693.0751, "end": 1698.375 }, { "text": "But if the grid is a 100% green and if you're wasting energy, you're wasting renewable energy.", "start": 1698.87, "end": 1704.31 }, { "text": "You know what I mean?", "start": 1704.31, "end": 1705.29 } ], "start": 1693.0751, "end": 1705.29, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1705.75, "end": 1705.99 } ], "start": 1705.75, "end": 1705.99, "num_words": 1.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1705.99, "end": 1706.49 }, { "text": "Burning fossil fuels.", "start": 1706.55, "end": 1707.85 } ], "start": 1705.99, "end": 1707.85, "num_words": 4.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "For sure.", "start": 1708.79, "end": 1709.53 }, { "text": "Is there anything that I haven't asked about?", "start": 1711.045, "end": 1712.965 }, { "text": "Maybe anything that's occurred to you in the in the course of this conversation?", "start": 1713.525, "end": 1716.345 } ], "start": 1708.79, "end": 1716.345, "num_words": 24.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I guess the only thing I would say is that that, when I first came on and I saw these goals, it was definitely a little bit of a gut check.", "start": 1716.965, "end": 1725.94 }, { "text": "You know?", "start": 1725.94, "end": 1726.26 }, { "text": "It was like, woah.", "start": 1726.26, "end": 1727.32 }, { "text": "Like you said, 2030 is only eight years away.", "start": 1727.86, "end": 1731.14 }, { "text": "That's not a lot of time to get this done.", "start": 1731.14, "end": 1733.88 } ], "start": 1716.965, "end": 1733.88, "num_words": 56.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And, I I was like, man, I don't know that this is even possible.", "start": 1734.42, "end": 1738.7051 }, { "text": "And I have a lot of people saying you know, or have asked me.", "start": 1738.7051, "end": 1741.345 }, { "text": "I've had colleagues and coworkers who are like, is that you know, is council just setting us up for failure?", "start": 1741.345, "end": 1746.145 }, { "text": "Is this even possible?", "start": 1746.145, "end": 1747.2051 }, { "text": "And, you know, if you ask me twelve months ago, I would have been like, I don't know if it's possible or not.", "start": 1747.985, "end": 1754.59 } ], "start": 1734.42, "end": 1754.59, "num_words": 75.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "But now after we've done what we've done, I no.", "start": 1754.65, "end": 1758.73 }, { "text": "I I have a absolutely a 100% different opinion.", "start": 1758.73, "end": 1761.47 }, { "text": "It it is possible.", "start": 1761.53, "end": 1762.75 }, { "text": "It it but I think what we all need to do is I think it's human nature, sadly, to look for all the negatives and even hear the negatives from our community, you know, even, like, people that hate the hydro.", "start": 1763.53, "end": 1778.315 }, { "text": "But if you know it's the right thing to do and it's getting you to your goal and the goal is stated in resolutions passed by town council, then that's the right thing to do and you need you just need to move forward.", "start": 1778.88, "end": 1789.54 } ], "start": 1754.65, "end": 1789.54, "num_words": 108.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And and the reality is I also know that we are gonna see more local investment.", "start": 1790.56, "end": 1797.0651 }, { "text": "We are gonna see an increase in solar in Boone because of these steps that we've taken now, because it it success builds upon success.", "start": 1797.0651, "end": 1807.005 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1807.1599, "end": 1807.48 }, { "text": "I mean, people are Yeah.", "start": 1807.48, "end": 1809.0 }, { "text": "They're they get excited about it.", "start": 1809.0, "end": 1810.5199 } ], "start": 1790.56, "end": 1810.5199, "num_words": 53.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "If if you if all if all we did was sit here and nay say, that there's no progress.", "start": 1810.5199, "end": 1816.14 }, { "text": "Nobody's gonna ever get off their get off the couch, so to speak, and and jump in.", "start": 1816.36, "end": 1821.34 } ], "start": 1810.5199, "end": 1821.34, "num_words": 36.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right.", "start": 1829.875, "end": 1830.1151 }, { "text": "Well, George, thank you so much.", "start": 1830.1151, "end": 1832.035 }, { "text": "I mean, this has been really educational, and I learned a lot more than I thought I would just in terms of how you guys got to where you are.", "start": 1832.035, "end": 1838.05 }, { "text": "So congratulations on on getting to where you are, especially if, you know, twelve months ago, it it still looked like, something that was gonna be pretty daunting.", "start": 1838.11, "end": 1845.81 }, { "text": "But the amount of progress you guys have made in this time, especially, you know, with where", "start": 1846.11, "end": 1849.815 } ], "start": 1829.875, "end": 1849.815, "num_words": 82.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "are we?", "start": 1849.815, "end": 1849.9749 } ], "start": 1849.815, "end": 1849.9749, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know, we're February 2022.", "start": 1849.9749, "end": 1852.135 }, { "text": "Right.", "start": 1852.135, "end": 1852.635 }, { "text": "That that's that's pretty amazing.", "start": 1853.335, "end": 1854.615 }, { "text": "I mean, that's that's worthy of applause.", "start": 1854.615, "end": 1856.235 } ], "start": 1849.9749, "end": 1856.235, "num_words": 18.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Ben, thank you.", "start": 1856.455, "end": 1857.335 }, { "text": "You know, I'm I'm just grateful that I'm here 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Yeah. 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You can learn about all of it at n c l m dot o r g. Until next time. 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