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There will be a link with an invite down in the episode description. Do feel free to go check that out. It's a small community right now, but hoping to grow it. It's a great way to reach out to me and let me know things that you might want us to cover or to just hang out and talk about civic tech. Anyway, let's go ahead and start the show. Brian, thank you so much for joining us here on Civic Tech Chat. Could you introduce yourself and tell us a bit about what you do? Sure. I'm Brian Whitaker. I'm the founder of Humans of Public Service. Really excited to be here and, big fan of the civic tech community. So I guess a little bit about what I do, I run an organization called Humans of Public Service. It's a five zero one c three nonprofit, and we basically put the, heart and soul of public servants on full display. And we've been doing that for about two years now. And what would you say is your personal why? The thing that drives you to get out of bed each morning and do stuff like what you described. You know, for me, it's honestly, like, just a drive to do as much good as possible. I think I'm really fortunate to be in the position that I'm in, and I would never say I'm, like, a byproduct of myself. Like, it took a lot of help to get here, whether it's different organizations, different people advocating for me, championing me, giving me advice or sound feedback. So at this point in my career, I really just wanna pay that forward and help as many others as possible. I'd like to talk a little bit about the journey that has taken you to Civic Tech. That career path has taken you to a variety of places so far ranging from private sector, government, engineering, management, consulting, among the the many collected hats we we could discuss on your path. Can you tell us a bit about that and how it got you into civic tech? Yeah. So I guess I can maybe start at the beginning. Service and helping others is something that I really grew up around. It was never really a topic around the dinner table, but I witnessed it in a variety of forms. So, my dad was in the Air Force. My mom taught. I have a sister who taught, another one who just retired from about thirty years as a Dayton police officer in Dayton, Ohio. Then I've got another sister who's a nurse. So while we've never really talked about it, it's always been a thing that I've been around. But starting off my career in the private sector, I'm a son of two immigrants, and I don't know if other first gen folks could relate to this, but my dad regularly said to me, you you need some hard skills. Right? And that was either going in the direction of, like, in engineering, science, or, like we never really talked about doctor, but I'm sure that would have been the third thing if, the buck went past engineering. So fortunately for me, I was decent at math and was able to get into an engineering program at RIT. But in RIT, I wouldn't say the government necessarily recruits that far north. I don't know if it's too cold or what, but they were not on my campus at the career fair. So I ended up, in private sector. I started off at Lockheed Martin information technology and got to hear a little bit about what they did with, the federal government. But working in the federal government with a technology background wasn't really anything I was exposed to until much later in my career. So fast forward, discover complete my MBA and discover business consulting, move into consulting, and start consulting for the federal government. And that's when I learned about the General Services Administration and how their mission is basically to support all the other agencies in the government. So that's when I sort of caught the bug and thought to myself, I wanna do government wide work. Like, how can I do the most good for the people in our country? So I had the opportunity to come into the government, and I did. I came in as an 11 o two for all those acquisition and contract, fanatics out there, but quickly switched to, like, three zero one series, which is project management, and had the opportunity to stand up a organization called, the IT Modernization Centers of Excellence at GSA. It was basically like a fed to fed consultancy, and, we had the opportunity to support other federal agencies with IT modernization efforts. So we worked with The US, Department of Agriculture, Housing and Urban Development, Office of Personnel Management. And when an opportunity really presented itself to join an organization more mature than the centers of excellence called eighteen f, which is shorthand for 1800 F Street, that was really my first exposure and awareness of civic tech and just learning the history of how eighteen f and USDS was formed out of, the healthcare.gov crisis. And, yeah, I never turned back. I was a civic tech junkie from that point, just hearing about all of their work and figuring out how to improve service delivery to people in America through technology, product management, engineering, and design. Yeah. There was there was nothing sweeter than that. Just, focusing on how to use those skills to do the most good for for the people in our country. So that was sort of my journey. I can hear from that story, you know, that you you've definitely been living that service ethos that that you described as kind of being foundational to your story there. But you've also done so as someone who's had to step up to to lead in that public service context. What are some lessons you've learned along the way? I reflect on this a lot just because I've got a good group of friends, a couple different, chat groups, one from elementary, one from college. You know, we still keep in touch, and everybody has an opinion on what government could and should be doing. But when it really comes to, like, making change and influencing change, it's, so much easier said than done. You know what I mean? The federal government, leaders in the federal government have so many conflicting priorities. And, figuring out what's the best next move isn't the easiest with all these different signals and priorities and discussions going on. And then on top of that, being able to deliver on what's best isn't easy either. Right? A lot of folks think it's really just a flick of the switch to get something done, but it's like, if you wanna create change, it's like you've gotta have budget. You've gotta be able to spend that money on the appropriate thing. You've gotta have the people around you to know what the best way to spend that money is or to develop that solution. So that's a lot of different functions. That's acquisition. That's hiring, and that's, like, the technical skills around you. So if those things aren't in balance or they aren't in sync, the likelihood of you being successful with the project is it just starts to dwindle. So, with that said, it's like really having a good understanding of acquisition, being great partners with those organizations, prioritizing, understanding those processes, and how you can form greater greater collaboration. So oftentimes, you might just think, hey. This is my lane. Hiring is my lane, and acquisition's my lane, but it's like you all gotta be at the table together to create a good outcome. So if if there was any advice I could give is, like, figure out a way to get the right people to the table, form friendships, form relationships, you know, send a edible arrangement or something because when it comes to getting something done, you gotta have these people at your side. You've gotta be able to work with them and respect each other's expertise to really to really deliver the change that the people need. So I guess it's if I were to sum it up, just be a great partner. Related to that phrase you use, you know, getting the right people to the table, that reminded me of a conversation we had as we were preparing. And you mentioned the notion that civic tech has an opportunity to but to do better at hiring from the communities that the government serves. When you say that, like, what what does that mean to you, and how would you describe that for folks out there listening? Sure. I'd say, you know, I was in I was in Civic Tech in a moment when George Floyd was murdered. And just seeing, like, how few people from marginalized communities were present in this space at that time and having varying conversations around what that felt like at the time was difficult. And it just really opened up my eyes to you know, we could go a lot further in terms of representation and communities and the organizations that we're sort of serving and supporting. We could go a lot further in terms of making sure those voices are present when doing design or research or development. Right? And I think I think it's more so an an opportunity to really expand our reach and awareness, and it's something that I really wanna lean into through my organization. So, for example, you know, I I still reflect on the days of, like, going to career fairs at Rochester Institute of Technology and not really being familiar with government opportunities for technologists. Right? So one of the things I'm working on is pulling together a pitch to bring public servants to the National Society of Black Engineers annual conference next year. Would love to do that with other organizations, that really focus on convening talent for marginalized community. There's another one that, I wasn't as involved in in undergrad, but, Black Engineer of the Year Award. Right? That's another organization I'm trying to get connected with. And then, you know, my parents are from Panama, so, I get to sort of navigate both spaces. But, there's Hispanic engineering organizations that that could, you know, get some love from public servants. So how can we sort of spread the word more broadly and, elevate the different opportunities and pathways to get into government? And that's something that I'm focusing on as well. I think your your mention of, humans and public service then, your answer is maybe a good segue to get a sense of that as the topic. It's a good connector. You're, you're the founder of of that initiative, humans and public service, the nonprofit, just stories of public servants. Why did you go out and seek to create an organization like that? Goes back to George Floyd for me. You know, George Floyd and I'd also say the time that I joined government, I joined in, like, 2016. There was so much rhetoric around, hey. Let's drain the swamp. And I feel like maybe appreciation for public servants might have been at an all time low at that point. So joining government at that time, I guess that put somewhat of a chip on my shoulder. And then when George Floyd died, it was a scenario where I had to really do some self reflection and say, you know, prior to George Floyd, I was asking myself, like, when is this when is this gonna stop? Like, when is this gonna change? After George Floyd, I really had to figure out what next steps I could take to really make an impact in that space. So for me, it was really like leaning into folks within government. Right? I think that was a broad community where I knew a lot of folks doing great great work. And my thought was, how could I create more empathy for people from marginalized communities? And my first thought was like, well, maybe I could celebrate them. You know? I, I didn't have the skill set of being a great photographer and amazing writer, like the founder of Humans of New York, but I knew I could stand up a website where public servants could be nominated. And then once they're nominated, I could send that public servant a form asking them, who are you? What do you do? What inspired you to join government? And what's been the highlight of your career? I prototyped with some friends, you know, just saying, hey. I got this idea. Would you be interested in sharing your story? Thankfully, a lot of them were from the civic tech community and were supporters. So shout out to my team that folks and a few others. Yeah. We started posting in 2022. It didn't take off as much as I thought it would on Instagram, but a good friend of mine said, hey. You should try LinkedIn, and it took off. So definitely grateful for, you know, those early supporters because if it weren't for them, we wouldn't be here. But I really just wanna make a difference in regards to how can we create more empathy for people in public service, and how can we attract the next generation and encourage them to join public service and make a difference. It sounds like, some of that that why, like, really comes from a place of of vulnerability, which I imagine as you're asking folks to kind of answer similar types of questions, I imagine there's a bit of why sprinkled in there. They may reach into a similar space. Is that something you've seen kind of as you've built these these profiles of folks that get nominated? Yeah. For sure. There's actually someone that we recently, spoke to, and asked to share their story. And it wasn't until we really had the conversation with them that they realized that their mom was really the person that inspired them to serve and serve others and and to, continue to give. And this lady is a in school social worker in Oklahoma helping people, you know, get to doctor's appointments, dentist appointments. Like, she was telling us a story the other day about how there was a student who had a severe, like, challenge with his teeth, and, his family didn't have a way to get to a doctor and nor, you know, an insurance plan to really help get the cost covered. But through her social work tools and skill set, she was able to find the insurance, needed to help reduce the cost and actually find a way for this kid to get to the dentist. And, like, years later, his smile's on point. And, you know, I think it's hard to sort of describe the impact that someone in social work would really have and just something like getting someone to the dentist and getting their, you know, teeth or dental work done or or or dressed. Like, that person's, you know, self confidence. You know, bullying today in schools is very different than when we were in school. So, like, to be able to help that person in that way, I think, you know, is just incredible. So so for all of that, I I I just say that, yeah, coming from that vulnerable vulnerable place, doing some reflection on, like, what is really moving people to serve is something that I hope to continue to highlight, and I think it's just important for folks to hear. You know? Like, similar to my story, no one ever really talked about the importance of service in my in my house, but I knew that's how they spent their time. Vulnerability is key. I think it's an important trait in leadership these days. You know? Being able to connect with folks and share that you're not perfect, I think people will trust you more. As you've got on to the world seeking those types of stories, those places where you can share in that vulnerability, How do you go about finding folks that are willing to to talk about that, and how do you choose what ultimately ends up on humans in public service? It's a couple different things. Like, I'd say the first thing that really encourages us to follow-up and highlight this person is how they respond and what the nominator really says about them. We have some instances where folks see this as an opportunity to really just drop in their resume, and that's not really what we're looking for. Like, we don't aspire to be the next LinkedIn. I say if anything, we'd wanna be, like, the charming public server recruiter or advocate, but just sharing your resume isn't really gonna do that. We're really trying to create connection, not only through the stories that are told, but hopefully in the future through the pictures that are shared as well. So I'd say, one, it's like, what do the nominator say about you? What type of work are you doing? Where are you located is a big driver right now. Like, I don't wanna be considered an organization that only supports federal government or is only for people in the DC area or is only for coastal. Like, I'm really trying to to reach Middle America and celebrate them and let them know that they're welcome here. Sometimes in government, there's a dynamic between the regions and headquarters, and I don't wanna be seen as headquarters. No slights to, headquarters. No slights to, the folks that work work in HQ, but I wanna make sure the temperature of the relationship between, the regions in the DC area remains warm and fuzzy. So, we welcome them. We need them, and we wanna celebrate them because, just like us here in this area, we still need people to come and work for the government and to and to, be passionate about it. I think I'm hearing from your description there that you're you're kinda reaching back to the two foundational principles you talked about earlier, notion of representation when you're talking about hiring, and then also that, humanization and empathy building, that you wanna, like that someone coming upon these stories, you would like them to kinda see grow within them. Am am I kinda understanding that correctly with how you're you're viewing this? A 100%. I'm always trying to strike that balance, and it can be a lot at times. It's like making sure there's representation across the different levels of government because we aren't solely federal, making sure that there's representation across the states, making sure we have representation across gender identity. You name it. Right? I think we're truly striving for that balance and even maybe leaning a little bit more towards voices that are often unheard. Right? Like, how do we make sure everyone's there, but giving an extra boost or additional outreach to those that are often unheard. And I feel like that could be Middle America at times. As you think about the future of humans of public service, what would you say your vision is? Going back to being that charming recruiter. Right? It's like, how do we a couple a couple interesting ideas that have been coming to mind for me lately. Right? It's like, one, being nationally recognized as, like, where public servants are welcome. And if you wanted to learn about government, you'd wanna come here. Right? It's not it's it's plain language speak. Right? It's familiar faces. It's like, oh, this is what our government does, and I'm proud. Right? That's going back to some of that charming recruiter and advocate. Right? You can come here, maybe see someone from your city eating deep dish or even a thin slice, like that that best New York City slice and saying, oh, I connect with them. That's familiar. Right? In addition to that, I really wanna be a convener. So what we're doing right now is really sharing stories and, ideally, getting those stories in front of folks that are curious about the government and maybe even curious about a career path into government. But I would love to do, like, an annual celebration, maybe switching up the city every year based on either demand or, let's say, nomination interest. Like, if we're getting 200 nominations out of Chicago, wouldn't it be great if we could show up to that city, celebrate the public servants there, and, go to another one the next year? I'd say being recognized nationally and just having stories from every state, city, location, and being able to celebrate those folks in person, that's really the dream. In our, prep conversation, you mentioned, kinda related to storytelling as you're talking about this idea of kind of having enhanced methods that you'd like to introduce as you go into the future that would aid in getting the this message out to those, broader geographical areas that you're talking about. Right? Like, trying to get to folks in Middle America and different states, different places. How do you see those methods aiding and and getting to that goal? Man, I'm fired up now. Right? I forgot all about that. One of the things we're thinking about and potentially wanna partner with a few organizations on is maybe, like, an oral history. Right? So I think there's certain moments when the government really responds and shows up in ways that folks don't really give them enough credit for. Right? Some of these scenarios, I feel like, are once the pandemic kicked off and people can go into the offices go into their respective offices and and work. Our government showed up in a way where people were able to get money quickly, and it kept a lot of businesses and organizations afloat. Now you probably haven't heard the government's perspective from the people that were involved in that and what it looked like and who those heroes were. Right? Right now, we're going through a situation where I think FEMA has a shortage of staff due to these back to back hurricanes, natural natural disasters. But I bet you our government's gonna show up. I bet you they're gonna find a way. They're gonna figure it out on a dime and support these cities and towns. We probably won't ever really get thanks for it. And you probably won't hear about the people that were able to address those gaps or use their network to convene multiple people and mobilize them to respond to the need. Right? And I think there's a great opportunity to evolve the human to public service process to do that type of storytelling. Right? Like, we already have individuals sort of telling their story personally, But what if we convene those folks that were involved at a very critical moment and inspired the readers of humans of public service to feel a sense of pride in their government in the way they show up on a dime and and solve solve a problem. So many times, you might hear the phrase, oh, that's good enough for government. Right? But government's incredible, man. We're we're a force. We do a lot of great things, and I don't know if it's the algorithms that encourage, like, the bad news stories or what, but there's gotta be a way to buck the trend and, celebrate the people that really respond when we need them the most. Continuing on that this topic of storytelling, we also talked a bit about agencies as they, you know, try to seek out folks to recruit, bring on. Right? And you mentioned this, idea that agencies should be trying to get better at telling their story and that there's maybe this tendency to start to get hooked on expertise, which can lead to some, like, risk aversion and how they're going about kinda, like, hiring processes, that sort of thing. As you see it, like, what kind of challenges are they facing, and how how can they be helped to kind of achieve the things that that we've talked about? You know, I think there's capacity challenges. Right? And I think going back to a statement I made earlier, it's like, how can you be a greater partner? Just be in a design groupie. One of the questions that are often asked in design spaces when they're trying to solve a problem is, like, how might we? And I think if that question were asked more, I think the government would figure out a way to sort of address some of these challenges. But HR offices are often understaffed. Right? And a lot of what they're focusing on is just, like, making sure we adhere to the to the process, when it comes to hiring talent. But adding on additional capability of outreach and communication, I think that's something where there's opportunity to partner with comms offices who are often, from what I've seen, also understaffed. Right? But what I'm really hoping is from a hiring manager plus, you know, hiring professional and plus a comms person, could it be a situation where one plus one plus one equals four instead of just three? Like, their powers combined can make something great. And I think that could ultimately lead to a really great, like, hiring campaign. If they sat down together, talked about what the needs were, put a face to the hiring manager name or a face to the department or division that has the need, I think they'd probably get greater responses because the person articulating the need, ideally, the hiring manager, could speak to the work in a way where that hiring manager ideally will only receive resumes from people that feel that they have the skill set and the passion to align to the work. I think sometimes more often than not, the language in, job posting isn't necessarily the clearest, isn't necessarily the plainest, and some folks may be hiring, without really knowing what the what the real work is. So, hopefully, this would increase the quality of candidates. Hopefully, this would be more shareable content that might reach, communities that often wouldn't be reached and, you know, could address some of those gaps. But I think it's, again, finding ways to partner. And, hopefully, with humans of public service, I would love to engage ideally state and local organizations on different templates or way we can create content that's shareable and a little bit more engaging to fill these gaps. It it sounds a bit like a selection bias. I think it's, like, a a bit of what what you're describing there for for some of these postings where and maybe it's, like, a bias based on effectively confidence or or one's willingness to ignore bullet points that that they don't have Yeah. Offer a for a post, which is maybe, like, a little bit of a psychological thing. But I am I kind of pulling out the right thread there? Is that something you you're seeing? I'd say I'd say potentially selection bias, but I also feel like once you get into government, you get more familiar with that language. And I feel like more often than not, the job postings are written for people already in government. Like, who else speaks that language? You know? Who else knows what an 11 o two is or an IT specialist if you aren't in government? You know? So if we could figure out how to reframe and maybe put a little bit instead of, like, redoing the entire, like, job series structure and how they're written, could we just do a overlay of a ninety second clip of a hiring manager saying in plain language what the work is, what they need, and why someone should apply to the job? I think that's a lot better than just redoing the whole thing and starting over. You know? Just a little translator decoder ring, I think, could go a long way to getting additional people in. If someone out there listening is hearing this and they're going, wow. Like, I I'm excited by humans of public service, service, and I wanna I wanna do something. Like, I wanna I wanna help this happen. I wanna help it continue. I wanna support this mission. What would be the best way for them to go about trying to do that? Oh, sure. So I would say the first thing I'd say the easiest thing, follow us on Instagram or LinkedIn. Just you can find us at public service on both, Instagram and LinkedIn. But if you wanna get more meaningfully involved, there's a couple different things you could do. So you could check out our website. And I think by the time that this goes live, our new website and our new design should be should be live. So check that out if you get a chance, but there'll be a link on the site called get involved. You could, sign up to be a volunteer. There's a variety of skill sets that we need from, let's say, design to, communications, copy editing, to, just general, like, ways to support our operations. We eventually wanna get into events. So if you have that experience or even volunteer management, that'd be huge. You could reach out and inquire about being a sponsor of humans to public service, or you could always donate as well. And last but not least, and I hope this sort of goes without saying, we'll always take a good nomination. You know? We wouldn't exist without the opportunity to celebrate public servants. So if you have the time, if there's someone that's, made a meaningful impact to you or their dedication, rings loud in your community, feel free to nominate them, and, we'll find a way to get them celebrated. Awesome. And just to be labor the point to make sure that the calls to action are there. So I I think I'm hearing you're you're open for nominations. If if they if someone out there knows somebody who's a a human of public service that they'd like to see their story feature, they should reach out. And also, I I think I heard there that you're open to sponsorship. So I like to think there's people out there as cool jobs that can suggest these things, but they should be, like, running to wherever they have to go to to try to get, sponsorship your way. Am I am I hearing that correctly? A 100%. Don't wait. Don't wait. Just do it now. Send the email. We'll talk. Awesome. Well, Brian, thank you so much for for taking the time to, to share with us here on Civic Tech Chat. I I have no doubt folks are gonna find something they can take and better their day with it. Awesome. Thanks so much for having me, Ryan. I really appreciate it. You can follow us on Twitter using the handle at civic tech chat. 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I'm Ryan Cook, and this is Civic Tech Chat, a show that looks at the way technology, politics, and policy impacts the world around us. The tools we use, the way services are delivered, and how we talk about and set policy all shape our society. We'll gather around and have a chat about these things together and more. Before we get started, I do wanna let you all know that we've started a Discord for the podcast.\n\nThere will be a link with an invite down in the episode description. Do feel free to go check that out. It's a small community right now, but hoping to grow it. It's a great way to reach out to me and let me know things that you might want us to cover or to just hang out and talk about civic tech. Anyway, let's go ahead and start the show.\n\nBrian, thank you so much for joining us here on Civic Tech Chat. Could you introduce yourself and tell us a bit about what you do?\n\nSpeaker 1: Sure. I'm Brian Whitaker. I'm the founder of Humans of Public Service. Really excited to be here and, big fan of the civic tech community. So I guess a little bit about what I do, I run an organization called Humans of Public Service.\n\nIt's a five zero one c three nonprofit, and we basically put the, heart and soul of public servants on full display. And we've been doing that for about two years now.\n\nSpeaker 0: And what would you say is your personal why? The thing that drives you to get out of bed each morning and do stuff like what you described.\n\nSpeaker 1: You know, for me, it's honestly, like, just a drive to do as much good as possible. I think I'm really fortunate to be in the position that I'm in, and I would never say I'm, like, a byproduct of myself. Like, it took a lot of help to get here, whether it's different organizations, different people advocating for me, championing me, giving me advice or sound feedback. So at this point in my career, I really just wanna pay that forward and help as many others as possible.\n\nSpeaker 0: I'd like to talk a little bit about the journey that has taken you to Civic Tech. That career path has taken you to a variety of places so far ranging from private sector, government, engineering, management, consulting, among the the many collected hats we we could discuss on your path. Can you tell us a bit about that and how it got you into civic tech?\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. So I guess I can maybe start at the beginning. Service and helping others is something that I really grew up around. It was never really a topic around the dinner table, but I witnessed it in a variety of forms. So, my dad was in the Air Force.\n\nMy mom taught. I have a sister who taught, another one who just retired from about thirty years as a Dayton police officer in Dayton, Ohio. Then I've got another sister who's a nurse. So while we've never really talked about it, it's always been a thing that I've been around. But starting off my career in the private sector, I'm a son of two immigrants, and I don't know if other first gen folks could relate to this, but my dad regularly said to me, you you need some hard skills.\n\nRight? And that was either going in the direction of, like, in engineering, science, or, like we never really talked about doctor, but I'm sure that would have been the third thing if, the buck went past engineering. So fortunately for me, I was decent at math and was able to get into an engineering program at RIT. But in RIT, I wouldn't say the government necessarily recruits that far north. I don't know if it's too cold or what, but they were not on my campus at the career fair.\n\nSo I ended up, in private sector. I started off at Lockheed Martin information technology and got to hear a little bit about what they did with, the federal government. But working in the federal government with a technology background wasn't really anything I was exposed to until much later in my career. So fast forward, discover complete my MBA and discover business consulting, move into consulting, and start consulting for the federal government. And that's when I learned about the General Services Administration and how their mission is basically to support all the other agencies in the government.\n\nSo that's when I sort of caught the bug and thought to myself, I wanna do government wide work. Like, how can I do the most good for the people in our country? So I had the opportunity to come into the government, and I did. I came in as an 11 o two for all those acquisition and contract, fanatics out there, but quickly switched to, like, three zero one series, which is project management, and had the opportunity to stand up a organization called, the IT Modernization Centers of Excellence at GSA. It was basically like a fed to fed consultancy, and, we had the opportunity to support other federal agencies with IT modernization efforts.\n\nSo we worked with The US, Department of Agriculture, Housing and Urban Development, Office of Personnel Management. And when an opportunity really presented itself to join an organization more mature than the centers of excellence called eighteen f, which is shorthand for 1800 F Street, that was really my first exposure and awareness of civic tech and just learning the history of how eighteen f and USDS was formed out of, the healthcare.gov crisis. And, yeah, I never turned back. I was a civic tech junkie from that point, just hearing about all of their work and figuring out how to improve service delivery to people in America through technology, product management, engineering, and design. Yeah.\n\nThere was there was nothing sweeter than that. Just, focusing on how to use those skills to do the most good for for the people in our country. So that was sort of my journey.\n\nSpeaker 0: I can hear from that story, you know, that you you've definitely been living that service ethos that that you described as kind of being foundational to your story there. But you've also done so as someone who's had to step up to to lead in that public service context. What are some lessons you've learned along the way?\n\nSpeaker 1: I reflect on this a lot just because I've got a good group of friends, a couple different, chat groups, one from elementary, one from college. You know, we still keep in touch, and everybody has an opinion on what government could and should be doing. But when it really comes to, like, making change and influencing change, it's, so much easier said than done. You know what I mean? The federal government, leaders in the federal government have so many conflicting priorities.\n\nAnd, figuring out what's the best next move isn't the easiest with all these different signals and priorities and discussions going on. And then on top of that, being able to deliver on what's best isn't easy either. Right? A lot of folks think it's really just a flick of the switch to get something done, but it's like, if you wanna create change, it's like you've gotta have budget. You've gotta be able to spend that money on the appropriate thing.\n\nYou've gotta have the people around you to know what the best way to spend that money is or to develop that solution. So that's a lot of different functions. That's acquisition. That's hiring, and that's, like, the technical skills around you. So if those things aren't in balance or they aren't in sync, the likelihood of you being successful with the project is it just starts to dwindle.\n\nSo, with that said, it's like really having a good understanding of acquisition, being great partners with those organizations, prioritizing, understanding those processes, and how you can form greater greater collaboration. So oftentimes, you might just think, hey. This is my lane. Hiring is my lane, and acquisition's my lane, but it's like you all gotta be at the table together to create a good outcome. So if if there was any advice I could give is, like, figure out a way to get the right people to the table, form friendships, form relationships, you know, send a edible arrangement or something because when it comes to getting something done, you gotta have these people at your side.\n\nYou've gotta be able to work with them and respect each other's expertise to really to really deliver the change that the people need. So I guess it's if I were to sum it up, just be a great partner.\n\nSpeaker 0: Related to that phrase you use, you know, getting the right people to the table, that reminded me of a conversation we had as we were preparing. And you mentioned the notion that civic tech has an opportunity to but to do better at hiring from the communities that the government serves. When you say that, like, what what does that mean to you, and how would you describe that for folks out there listening?\n\nSpeaker 1: Sure. I'd say, you know, I was in I was in Civic Tech in a moment when George Floyd was murdered. And just seeing, like, how few people from marginalized communities were present in this space at that time and having varying conversations around what that felt like at the time was difficult. And it just really opened up my eyes to you know, we could go a lot further in terms of representation and communities and the organizations that we're sort of serving and supporting. We could go a lot further in terms of making sure those voices are present when doing design or research or development.\n\nRight? And I think I think it's more so an an opportunity to really expand our reach and awareness, and it's something that I really wanna lean into through my organization. So, for example, you know, I I still reflect on the days of, like, going to career fairs at Rochester Institute of Technology and not really being familiar with government opportunities for technologists. Right? So one of the things I'm working on is pulling together a pitch to bring public servants to the National Society of Black Engineers annual conference next year.\n\nWould love to do that with other organizations, that really focus on convening talent for marginalized community. There's another one that, I wasn't as involved in in undergrad, but, Black Engineer of the Year Award. Right? That's another organization I'm trying to get connected with. And then, you know, my parents are from Panama, so, I get to sort of navigate both spaces.\n\nBut, there's Hispanic engineering organizations that that could, you know, get some love from public servants. So how can we sort of spread the word more broadly and, elevate the different opportunities and pathways to get into government? And that's something that I'm focusing on as well.\n\nSpeaker 0: I think your your mention of, humans and public service then, your answer is maybe a good segue to get a sense of that as the topic. It's a good connector. You're, you're the founder of of that initiative, humans and public service, the nonprofit, just stories of public servants. Why did you go out and seek to create an organization like that?\n\nSpeaker 1: Goes back to George Floyd for me. You know, George Floyd and I'd also say the time that I joined government, I joined in, like, 2016. There was so much rhetoric around, hey. Let's drain the swamp. And I feel like maybe appreciation for public servants might have been at an all time low at that point.\n\nSo joining government at that time, I guess that put somewhat of a chip on my shoulder. And then when George Floyd died, it was a scenario where I had to really do some self reflection and say, you know, prior to George Floyd, I was asking myself, like, when is this when is this gonna stop? Like, when is this gonna change? After George Floyd, I really had to figure out what next steps I could take to really make an impact in that space. So for me, it was really like leaning into folks within government.\n\nRight? I think that was a broad community where I knew a lot of folks doing great great work. And my thought was, how could I create more empathy for people from marginalized communities? And my first thought was like, well, maybe I could celebrate them. You know?\n\nI, I didn't have the skill set of being a great photographer and amazing writer, like the founder of Humans of New York, but I knew I could stand up a website where public servants could be nominated. And then once they're nominated, I could send that public servant a form asking them, who are you? What do you do? What inspired you to join government? And what's been the highlight of your career?\n\nI prototyped with some friends, you know, just saying, hey. I got this idea. Would you be interested in sharing your story? Thankfully, a lot of them were from the civic tech community and were supporters. So shout out to my team that folks and a few others.\n\nYeah. We started posting in 2022. It didn't take off as much as I thought it would on Instagram, but a good friend of mine said, hey. You should try LinkedIn, and it took off. So definitely grateful for, you know, those early supporters because if it weren't for them, we wouldn't be here.\n\nBut I really just wanna make a difference in regards to how can we create more empathy for people in public service, and how can we attract the next generation and encourage them to join public service and make a difference.\n\nSpeaker 0: It sounds like, some of that that why, like, really comes from a place of of vulnerability, which I imagine as you're asking folks to kind of answer similar types of questions, I imagine there's a bit of why sprinkled in there. They may reach into a similar space. Is that something you've seen kind of as you've built these these profiles of folks that get nominated?\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. For sure. There's actually someone that we recently, spoke to, and asked to share their story. And it wasn't until we really had the conversation with them that they realized that their mom was really the person that inspired them to serve and serve others and and to, continue to give. And this lady is a in school social worker in Oklahoma helping people, you know, get to doctor's appointments, dentist appointments.\n\nLike, she was telling us a story the other day about how there was a student who had a severe, like, challenge with his teeth, and, his family didn't have a way to get to a doctor and nor, you know, an insurance plan to really help get the cost covered. But through her social work tools and skill set, she was able to find the insurance, needed to help reduce the cost and actually find a way for this kid to get to the dentist. And, like, years later, his smile's on point. And, you know, I think it's hard to sort of describe the impact that someone in social work would really have and just something like getting someone to the dentist and getting their, you know, teeth or dental work done or or or dressed. Like, that person's, you know, self confidence.\n\nYou know, bullying today in schools is very different than when we were in school. So, like, to be able to help that person in that way, I think, you know, is just incredible. So so for all of that, I I I just say that, yeah, coming from that vulnerable vulnerable place, doing some reflection on, like, what is really moving people to serve is something that I hope to continue to highlight, and I think it's just important for folks to hear. You know? Like, similar to my story, no one ever really talked about the importance of service in my in my house, but I knew that's how they spent their time.\n\nVulnerability is key. I think it's an important trait in leadership these days. You know? Being able to connect with folks and share that you're not perfect, I think people will trust you more.\n\nSpeaker 0: As you've got on to the world seeking those types of stories, those places where you can share in that vulnerability, How do you go about finding folks that are willing to to talk about that, and how do you choose what ultimately ends up on humans in public service?\n\nSpeaker 1: It's a couple different things. Like, I'd say the first thing that really encourages us to follow-up and highlight this person is how they respond and what the nominator really says about them. We have some instances where folks see this as an opportunity to really just drop in their resume, and that's not really what we're looking for. Like, we don't aspire to be the next LinkedIn. I say if anything, we'd wanna be, like, the charming public server recruiter or advocate, but just sharing your resume isn't really gonna do that.\n\nWe're really trying to create connection, not only through the stories that are told, but hopefully in the future through the pictures that are shared as well. So I'd say, one, it's like, what do the nominator say about you? What type of work are you doing? Where are you located is a big driver right now. Like, I don't wanna be considered an organization that only supports federal government or is only for people in the DC area or is only for coastal.\n\nLike, I'm really trying to to reach Middle America and celebrate them and let them know that they're welcome here. Sometimes in government, there's a dynamic between the regions and headquarters, and I don't wanna be seen as headquarters. No slights to, headquarters. No slights to, the folks that work work in HQ, but I wanna make sure the temperature of the relationship between, the regions in the DC area remains warm and fuzzy. So, we welcome them.\n\nWe need them, and we wanna celebrate them because, just like us here in this area, we still need people to come and work for the government and to and to, be passionate about it.\n\nSpeaker 0: I think I'm hearing from your description there that you're you're kinda reaching back to the two foundational principles you talked about earlier, notion of representation when you're talking about hiring, and then also that, humanization and empathy building, that you wanna, like that someone coming upon these stories, you would like them to kinda see grow within them. Am am I kinda understanding that correctly with how you're you're viewing this?\n\nSpeaker 1: A 100%. I'm always trying to strike that balance, and it can be a lot at times. It's like making sure there's representation across the different levels of government because we aren't solely federal, making sure that there's representation across the states, making sure we have representation across gender identity. You name it. Right?\n\nI think we're truly striving for that balance and even maybe leaning a little bit more towards voices that are often unheard. Right? Like, how do we make sure everyone's there, but giving an extra boost or additional outreach to those that are often unheard. And I feel like that could be Middle America at times.\n\nSpeaker 0: As you think about the future of humans of public service, what would you say your vision is?\n\nSpeaker 1: Going back to being that charming recruiter. Right? It's like, how do we a couple a couple interesting ideas that have been coming to mind for me lately. Right? It's like, one, being nationally recognized as, like, where public servants are welcome.\n\nAnd if you wanted to learn about government, you'd wanna come here. Right? It's not it's it's plain language speak. Right? It's familiar faces.\n\nIt's like, oh, this is what our government does, and I'm proud. Right? That's going back to some of that charming recruiter and advocate. Right? You can come here, maybe see someone from your city eating deep dish or even a thin slice, like that that best New York City slice and saying, oh, I connect with them.\n\nThat's familiar. Right? In addition to that, I really wanna be a convener. So what we're doing right now is really sharing stories and, ideally, getting those stories in front of folks that are curious about the government and maybe even curious about a career path into government. But I would love to do, like, an annual celebration, maybe switching up the city every year based on either demand or, let's say, nomination interest.\n\nLike, if we're getting 200 nominations out of Chicago, wouldn't it be great if we could show up to that city, celebrate the public servants there, and, go to another one the next year? I'd say being recognized nationally and just having stories from every state, city, location, and being able to celebrate those folks in person, that's really the dream.\n\nSpeaker 0: In our, prep conversation, you mentioned, kinda related to storytelling as you're talking about this idea of kind of having enhanced methods that you'd like to introduce as you go into the future that would aid in getting the this message out to those, broader geographical areas that you're talking about. Right? Like, trying to get to folks in Middle America and different states, different places. How do you see those methods aiding and and getting to that goal?\n\nSpeaker 1: Man, I'm fired up now. Right? I forgot all about that. One of the things we're thinking about and potentially wanna partner with a few organizations on is maybe, like, an oral history. Right?\n\nSo I think there's certain moments when the government really responds and shows up in ways that folks don't really give them enough credit for. Right? Some of these scenarios, I feel like, are once the pandemic kicked off and people can go into the offices go into their respective offices and and work. Our government showed up in a way where people were able to get money quickly, and it kept a lot of businesses and organizations afloat. Now you probably haven't heard the government's perspective from the people that were involved in that and what it looked like and who those heroes were.\n\nRight? Right now, we're going through a situation where I think FEMA has a shortage of staff due to these back to back hurricanes, natural natural disasters. But I bet you our government's gonna show up. I bet you they're gonna find a way. They're gonna figure it out on a dime and support these cities and towns.\n\nWe probably won't ever really get thanks for it. And you probably won't hear about the people that were able to address those gaps or use their network to convene multiple people and mobilize them to respond to the need. Right? And I think there's a great opportunity to evolve the human to public service process to do that type of storytelling. Right?\n\nLike, we already have individuals sort of telling their story personally, But what if we convene those folks that were involved at a very critical moment and inspired the readers of humans of public service to feel a sense of pride in their government in the way they show up on a dime and and solve solve a problem. So many times, you might hear the phrase, oh, that's good enough for government. Right? But government's incredible, man. We're we're a force.\n\nWe do a lot of great things, and I don't know if it's the algorithms that encourage, like, the bad news stories or what, but there's gotta be a way to buck the trend and, celebrate the people that really respond when we need them the most.\n\nSpeaker 0: Continuing on that this topic of storytelling, we also talked a bit about agencies as they, you know, try to seek out folks to recruit, bring on. Right? And you mentioned this, idea that agencies should be trying to get better at telling their story and that there's maybe this tendency to start to get hooked on expertise, which can lead to some, like, risk aversion and how they're going about kinda, like, hiring processes, that sort of thing. As you see it, like, what kind of challenges are they facing, and how how can they be helped to kind of achieve the things that that we've talked about?\n\nSpeaker 1: You know, I think there's capacity challenges. Right? And I think going back to a statement I made earlier, it's like, how can you be a greater partner? Just be in a design groupie. One of the questions that are often asked in design spaces when they're trying to solve a problem is, like, how might we?\n\nAnd I think if that question were asked more, I think the government would figure out a way to sort of address some of these challenges. But HR offices are often understaffed. Right? And a lot of what they're focusing on is just, like, making sure we adhere to the to the process, when it comes to hiring talent. But adding on additional capability of outreach and communication, I think that's something where there's opportunity to partner with comms offices who are often, from what I've seen, also understaffed.\n\nRight? But what I'm really hoping is from a hiring manager plus, you know, hiring professional and plus a comms person, could it be a situation where one plus one plus one equals four instead of just three? Like, their powers combined can make something great. And I think that could ultimately lead to a really great, like, hiring campaign. If they sat down together, talked about what the needs were, put a face to the hiring manager name or a face to the department or division that has the need, I think they'd probably get greater responses because the person articulating the need, ideally, the hiring manager, could speak to the work in a way where that hiring manager ideally will only receive resumes from people that feel that they have the skill set and the passion to align to the work.\n\nI think sometimes more often than not, the language in, job posting isn't necessarily the clearest, isn't necessarily the plainest, and some folks may be hiring, without really knowing what the what the real work is. So, hopefully, this would increase the quality of candidates. Hopefully, this would be more shareable content that might reach, communities that often wouldn't be reached and, you know, could address some of those gaps. But I think it's, again, finding ways to partner. And, hopefully, with humans of public service, I would love to engage ideally state and local organizations on different templates or way we can create content that's shareable and a little bit more engaging to fill these gaps.\n\nSpeaker 0: It it sounds a bit like a selection bias. I think it's, like, a a bit of what what you're describing there for for some of these postings where and maybe it's, like, a bias based on effectively confidence or or one's willingness to ignore bullet points that that they don't have\n\nSpeaker 1: Yeah. Offer a for\n\nSpeaker 0: a post, which is maybe, like, a little bit of a psychological thing. But I am I kind of pulling out the right thread there? Is that something you you're seeing?\n\nSpeaker 1: I'd say I'd say potentially selection bias, but I also feel like once you get into government, you get more familiar with that language. And I feel like more often than not, the job postings are written for people already in government. Like, who else speaks that language? You know? Who else knows what an 11 o two is or an IT specialist if you aren't in government?\n\nYou know? So if we could figure out how to reframe and maybe put a little bit instead of, like, redoing the entire, like, job series structure and how they're written, could we just do a overlay of a ninety second clip of a hiring manager saying in plain language what the work is, what they need, and why someone should apply to the job? I think that's a lot better than just redoing the whole thing and starting over. You know? Just a little translator decoder ring, I think, could go a long way to getting additional people in.\n\nSpeaker 0: If someone out there listening is hearing this and they're going, wow. Like, I I'm excited by humans of public service, service, and I wanna I wanna do something. Like, I wanna I wanna help this happen. I wanna help it continue. I wanna support this mission.\n\nWhat would be the best way for them to go about trying to do that?\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh, sure. So I would say the first thing I'd say the easiest thing, follow us on Instagram or LinkedIn. Just you can find us at public service on both, Instagram and LinkedIn. But if you wanna get more meaningfully involved, there's a couple different things you could do. So you could check out our website.\n\nAnd I think by the time that this goes live, our new website and our new design should be should be live. So check that out if you get a chance, but there'll be a link on the site called get involved. You could, sign up to be a volunteer. There's a variety of skill sets that we need from, let's say, design to, communications, copy editing, to, just general, like, ways to support our operations. We eventually wanna get into events.\n\nSo if you have that experience or even volunteer management, that'd be huge. You could reach out and inquire about being a sponsor of humans to public service, or you could always donate as well. And last but not least, and I hope this sort of goes without saying, we'll always take a good nomination. You know? We wouldn't exist without the opportunity to celebrate public servants.\n\nSo if you have the time, if there's someone that's, made a meaningful impact to you or their dedication, rings loud in your community, feel free to nominate them, and, we'll find a way to get them celebrated.\n\nSpeaker 0: Awesome. And just to be labor the point to make sure that the calls to action are there. So I I think I'm hearing you're you're open for nominations. If if they if someone out there knows somebody who's a a human of public service that they'd like to see their story feature, they should reach out. And also, I I think I heard there that you're open to sponsorship.\n\nSo I like to think there's people out there as cool jobs that can suggest these things, but they should be, like, running to wherever they have to go to to try to get, sponsorship your way. Am I am I hearing that correctly?\n\nSpeaker 1: A 100%. Don't wait. Don't wait. Just do it now. Send the email.\n\nWe'll talk.\n\nSpeaker 0: Awesome. Well, Brian, thank you so much for for taking the time to, to share with us here on Civic Tech Chat. I I have no doubt folks are gonna find something they can take and better their day with it.\n\nSpeaker 1: Awesome. Thanks so much for having me, Ryan. I really appreciate it.\n\nSpeaker 0: You can follow us on Twitter using the handle at civic tech chat. Visit us on the web at civictech.chat, or subscribe to us for content updates wherever it is you download your podcasts.", "paragraphs": [ { "sentences": [ { "text": "Hello.", "start": 0.24, "end": 0.74 }, { "text": "I'm Ryan Cook, and this is Civic Tech Chat, a show that looks at the way technology, politics, and policy impacts the world around us.", "start": 0.88, "end": 9.62 }, { "text": "The tools we use, the way services are delivered, and how we talk about and set policy all shape our society.", "start": 9.84, "end": 16.605 }, { "text": "We'll gather around and have a chat about these things together and more.", "start": 17.305, "end": 21.244999 }, { "text": "Before we get started, I do wanna let you all know that we've started a Discord for the podcast.", "start": 21.545, "end": 26.97 } ], "start": 0.24, "end": 26.97, "num_words": 79.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "There will be a link with an invite down in the episode description.", "start": 27.35, "end": 30.89 }, { "text": "Do feel free to go check that out.", "start": 31.27, "end": 33.19 }, { "text": "It's a small community right now, but hoping to grow it.", "start": 33.19, "end": 35.59 }, { "text": "It's a great way to reach out to me and let me know things that you might want us to cover or to just hang out and talk about civic tech.", "start": 35.59, "end": 43.085 }, { "text": "Anyway, let's go ahead and start the show.", "start": 43.085, "end": 45.745 } ], "start": 27.35, "end": 45.745, "num_words": 71.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Brian, thank you so much for joining us here on Civic Tech Chat.", "start": 47.325, "end": 50.925 }, { "text": "Could you introduce yourself and tell us a bit about what you do?", "start": 50.925, "end": 54.225 } ], "start": 47.325, "end": 54.225, "num_words": 26.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sure.", "start": 55.06, "end": 55.56 }, { "text": "I'm Brian Whitaker.", "start": 55.94, "end": 57.0 }, { "text": "I'm the founder of Humans of Public Service.", "start": 57.06, "end": 59.16 }, { "text": "Really excited to be here and, big fan of the civic tech community.", "start": 59.7, "end": 63.48 }, { "text": "So I guess a little bit about what I do, I run an organization called Humans of Public Service.", "start": 64.18, "end": 69.075 } ], "start": 55.06, "end": 69.075, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's a five zero one c three nonprofit, and we basically put the, heart and soul of public servants on full display.", "start": 69.155, "end": 76.534996 }, { "text": "And we've been doing that for about two years now.", "start": 76.674995, "end": 78.935 } ], "start": 69.155, "end": 78.935, "num_words": 32.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And what would you say is your personal why?", "start": 79.55499, "end": 81.715 }, { "text": "The thing that drives you to get out of bed each morning and do stuff like what you described.", "start": 81.715, "end": 86.35 } ], "start": 79.55499, "end": 86.35, "num_words": 28.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know, for me, it's honestly, like, just a drive to do as much good as possible.", "start": 87.049995, "end": 92.829994 }, { "text": "I think I'm really fortunate to be in the position that I'm in, and I would never say I'm, like, a byproduct of myself.", "start": 93.21, "end": 102.365 }, { "text": "Like, it took a lot of help to get here, whether it's different organizations, different people advocating for me, championing me, giving me advice or sound feedback.", "start": 102.665, "end": 112.825 }, { "text": "So at this point in my career, I really just wanna pay that forward and help as many others as possible.", "start": 112.825, "end": 118.98 } ], "start": 87.049995, "end": 118.98, "num_words": 89.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I'd like to talk a little bit about the journey that has taken you to Civic Tech.", "start": 119.92, "end": 124.16 }, { "text": "That career path has taken you to a variety of places so far ranging from private sector, government, engineering, management, consulting, among the the many collected hats we we could discuss on your path.", "start": 124.4, "end": 136.795 }, { "text": "Can you tell us a bit about that and how it got you into civic tech?", "start": 137.255, "end": 140.715 } ], "start": 119.92, "end": 140.715, "num_words": 67.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 141.175, "end": 141.575 }, { "text": "So I guess I can maybe start at the beginning.", "start": 141.575, "end": 145.66 }, { "text": "Service and helping others is something that I really grew up around.", "start": 146.52, "end": 149.66 }, { "text": "It was never really a topic around the dinner table, but I witnessed it in a variety of forms.", "start": 149.96, "end": 155.40001 }, { "text": "So, my dad was in the Air Force.", "start": 155.40001, "end": 158.38501 } ], "start": 141.175, "end": 158.38501, "num_words": 50.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "My mom taught.", "start": 158.38501, "end": 159.445 }, { "text": "I have a sister who taught, another one who just retired from about thirty years as a Dayton police officer in Dayton, Ohio.", "start": 159.505, "end": 166.88501 }, { "text": "Then I've got another sister who's a nurse.", "start": 167.505, "end": 169.585 }, { "text": "So while we've never really talked about it, it's always been a thing that I've been around.", "start": 169.585, "end": 174.08 }, { "text": "But starting off my career in the private sector, I'm a son of two immigrants, and I don't know if other first gen folks could relate to this, but my dad regularly said to me, you you need some hard skills.", "start": 174.70001, "end": 187.625 } ], "start": 158.38501, "end": 187.625, "num_words": 92.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 187.625, "end": 187.94499 }, { "text": "And that was either going in the direction of, like, in engineering, science, or, like we never really talked about doctor, but I'm sure that would have been the third thing if, the buck went past engineering.", "start": 187.94499, "end": 200.59999 }, { "text": "So fortunately for me, I was decent at math and was able to get into an engineering program at RIT.", "start": 200.66, "end": 206.92 }, { "text": "But in RIT, I wouldn't say the government necessarily recruits that far north.", "start": 206.98, "end": 213.69499 }, { "text": "I don't know if it's too cold or what, but they were not on my campus at the career fair.", "start": 213.995, "end": 219.375 } ], "start": 187.625, "end": 219.375, "num_words": 91.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So I ended up, in private sector.", "start": 219.675, "end": 221.855 }, { "text": "I started off at Lockheed Martin information technology and got to hear a little bit about what they did with, the federal government.", "start": 222.235, "end": 231.06 }, { "text": "But working in the federal government with a technology background wasn't really anything I was exposed to until much later in my career.", "start": 232.15999, "end": 241.185 }, { "text": "So fast forward, discover complete my MBA and discover business consulting, move into consulting, and start consulting for the federal government.", "start": 241.185, "end": 251.765 }, { "text": "And that's when I learned about the General Services Administration and how their mission is basically to support all the other agencies in the government.", "start": 252.43, "end": 261.57 } ], "start": 219.675, "end": 261.57, "num_words": 99.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So that's when I sort of caught the bug and thought to myself, I wanna do government wide work.", "start": 262.03, "end": 265.95 }, { "text": "Like, how can I do the most good for the people in our country?", "start": 265.95, "end": 269.945 }, { "text": "So I had the opportunity to come into the government, and I did.", "start": 270.325, "end": 273.865 }, { "text": "I came in as an 11 o two for all those acquisition and contract, fanatics out there, but quickly switched to, like, three zero one series, which is project management, and had the opportunity to stand up a organization called, the IT Modernization Centers of Excellence at GSA.", "start": 274.165, "end": 293.92 }, { "text": "It was basically like a fed to fed consultancy, and, we had the opportunity to support other federal agencies with IT modernization efforts.", "start": 294.38, "end": 305.38498 } ], "start": 262.03, "end": 305.38498, "num_words": 117.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So we worked with The US, Department of Agriculture, Housing and Urban Development, Office of Personnel Management.", "start": 305.38498, "end": 313.085 }, { "text": "And when an opportunity really presented itself to join an organization more mature than the centers of excellence called eighteen f, which is shorthand for 1800 F Street, that was really my first exposure and awareness of civic tech and just learning the history of how eighteen f and USDS was formed out of, the healthcare.gov crisis.", "start": 313.85, "end": 335.00497 }, { "text": "And, yeah, I never turned back.", "start": 335.54498, "end": 338.985 }, { "text": "I was a civic tech junkie from that point, just hearing about all of their work and figuring out how to improve service delivery to people in America through technology, product management, engineering, and design.", "start": 339.22498, "end": 355.22 }, { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 356.185, "end": 356.505 } ], "start": 305.38498, "end": 356.505, "num_words": 116.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "There was there was nothing sweeter than that.", "start": 356.505, "end": 359.065 }, { "text": "Just, focusing on how to use those skills to do the most good for for the people in our country.", "start": 359.065, "end": 365.32498 }, { "text": "So that was sort of my journey.", "start": 365.54498, "end": 367.725 } ], "start": 356.505, "end": 367.725, "num_words": 35.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I can hear from that story, you know, that you you've definitely been living that service ethos that that you described as kind of being foundational to your story there.", "start": 368.6, "end": 375.9 }, { "text": "But you've also done so as someone who's had to step up to to lead in that public service context.", "start": 376.12, "end": 380.86002 }, { "text": "What are some lessons you've learned along the way?", "start": 381.49503, "end": 384.15503 } ], "start": 368.6, "end": 384.15503, "num_words": 59.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I reflect on this a lot just because I've got a good group of friends, a couple different, chat groups, one from elementary, one from college.", "start": 384.77502, "end": 394.23502 }, { "text": "You know, we still keep in touch, and everybody has an opinion on what government could and should be doing.", "start": 394.45502, "end": 400.54 }, { "text": "But when it really comes to, like, making change and influencing change, it's, so much easier said than done.", "start": 400.54, "end": 407.82 }, { "text": "You know what I mean?", "start": 407.82, "end": 408.96 }, { "text": "The federal government, leaders in the federal government have so many conflicting priorities.", "start": 409.18, "end": 414.125 } ], "start": 384.77502, "end": 414.125, "num_words": 83.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And, figuring out what's the best next move isn't the easiest with all these different signals and priorities and discussions going on.", "start": 414.98502, "end": 425.39 }, { "text": "And then on top of that, being able to deliver on what's best isn't easy either.", "start": 425.39, "end": 430.85 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 430.99, "end": 431.49 }, { "text": "A lot of folks think it's really just a flick of the switch to get something done, but it's like, if you wanna create change, it's like you've gotta have budget.", "start": 431.87, "end": 440.26498 }, { "text": "You've gotta be able to spend that money on the appropriate thing.", "start": 440.72498, "end": 444.82498 } ], "start": 414.98502, "end": 444.82498, "num_words": 82.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You've gotta have the people around you to know what the best way to spend that money is or to develop that solution.", "start": 444.965, "end": 451.145 }, { "text": "So that's a lot of different functions.", "start": 451.97, "end": 453.65002 }, { "text": "That's acquisition.", "start": 453.65002, "end": 454.55002 }, { "text": "That's hiring, and that's, like, the technical skills around you.", "start": 454.69, "end": 458.45 }, { "text": "So if those things aren't in balance or they aren't in sync, the likelihood of you being successful with the project is it just starts to dwindle.", "start": 458.45, "end": 468.305 } ], "start": 444.965, "end": 468.305, "num_words": 69.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So, with that said, it's like really having a good understanding of acquisition, being great partners with those organizations, prioritizing, understanding those processes, and how you can form greater greater collaboration.", "start": 468.305, "end": 482.8 }, { "text": "So oftentimes, you might just think, hey.", "start": 482.94, "end": 486.86 }, { "text": "This is my lane.", "start": 486.86, "end": 488.08 }, { "text": "Hiring is my lane, and acquisition's my lane, but it's like you all gotta be at the table together to create a good outcome.", "start": 489.1, "end": 495.34 }, { "text": "So if if there was any advice I could give is, like, figure out a way to get the right people to the table, form friendships, form relationships, you know, send a edible arrangement or something because when it comes to getting something done, you gotta have these people at your side.", "start": 495.34, "end": 510.69998 } ], "start": 468.305, "end": 510.69998, "num_words": 118.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You've gotta be able to work with them and respect each other's expertise to really to really deliver the change that the people need.", "start": 511.32, "end": 518.52 }, { "text": "So I guess it's if I were to sum it up, just be a great partner.", "start": 518.52, "end": 522.7 } ], "start": 511.32, "end": 522.7, "num_words": 40.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Related to that phrase you use, you know, getting the right people to the table, that reminded me of a conversation we had as we were preparing.", "start": 523.615, "end": 530.675 }, { "text": "And you mentioned the notion that civic tech has an opportunity to but to do better at hiring from the communities that the government serves.", "start": 531.13495, "end": 538.43 }, { "text": "When you say that, like, what what does that mean to you, and how would you describe that for folks out there listening?", "start": 539.37, "end": 543.79 } ], "start": 523.615, "end": 543.79, "num_words": 75.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Sure.", "start": 544.97, "end": 545.29 }, { "text": "I'd say, you know, I was in I was in Civic Tech in a moment when George Floyd was murdered.", "start": 545.29, "end": 552.885 }, { "text": "And just seeing, like, how few people from marginalized communities were present in this space at that time and having varying conversations around what that felt like at the time was difficult.", "start": 553.505, "end": 571.04004 }, { "text": "And it just really opened up my eyes to you know, we could go a lot further in terms of representation and communities and the organizations that we're sort of serving and supporting.", "start": 571.82, "end": 586.605 }, { "text": "We could go a lot further in terms of making sure those voices are present when doing design or research or development.", "start": 587.385, "end": 594.94 } ], "start": 544.97, "end": 594.94, "num_words": 108.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 595.08, "end": 595.58 }, { "text": "And I think I think it's more so an an opportunity to really expand our reach and awareness, and it's something that I really wanna lean into through my organization.", "start": 596.04004, "end": 607.115 }, { "text": "So, for example, you know, I I still reflect on the days of, like, going to career fairs at Rochester Institute of Technology and not really being familiar with government opportunities for technologists.", "start": 607.255, "end": 618.27 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 618.33, "end": 618.65 }, { "text": "So one of the things I'm working on is pulling together a pitch to bring public servants to the National Society of Black Engineers annual conference next year.", "start": 618.65, "end": 628.43005 } ], "start": 595.08, "end": 628.43005, "num_words": 93.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Would love to do that with other organizations, that really focus on convening talent for marginalized community.", "start": 628.49005, "end": 636.105 }, { "text": "There's another one that, I wasn't as involved in in undergrad, but, Black Engineer of the Year Award.", "start": 636.485, "end": 643.625 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 643.83997, "end": 644.08 }, { "text": "That's another organization I'm trying to get connected with.", "start": 644.08, "end": 647.06 }, { "text": "And then, you know, my parents are from Panama, so, I get to sort of navigate both spaces.", "start": 647.44, "end": 653.62 } ], "start": 628.49005, "end": 653.62, "num_words": 63.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "But, there's Hispanic engineering organizations that that could, you know, get some love from public servants.", "start": 653.83997, "end": 661.935 }, { "text": "So how can we sort of spread the word more broadly and, elevate the different opportunities and pathways to get into government?", "start": 661.935, "end": 668.895 }, { "text": "And that's something that I'm focusing on as well.", "start": 668.895, "end": 671.75 } ], "start": 653.83997, "end": 671.75, "num_words": 47.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I think your your mention of, humans and public service then, your answer is maybe a good segue to get a sense of that as the topic.", "start": 672.37, "end": 678.95 }, { "text": "It's a good connector.", "start": 679.09, "end": 679.99 }, { "text": "You're, you're the founder of of that initiative, humans and public service, the nonprofit, just stories of public servants.", "start": 680.45, "end": 686.705 }, { "text": "Why did you go out and seek to create an organization like that?", "start": 687.325, "end": 690.305 } ], "start": 672.37, "end": 690.305, "num_words": 63.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Goes back to George Floyd for me.", "start": 690.845, "end": 692.845 }, { "text": "You know, George Floyd and I'd also say the time that I joined government, I joined in, like, 2016.", "start": 692.845, "end": 698.285 }, { "text": "There was so much rhetoric around, hey.", "start": 698.285, "end": 700.75 }, { "text": "Let's drain the swamp.", "start": 700.75, "end": 702.02997 }, { "text": "And I feel like maybe appreciation for public servants might have been at an all time low at that point.", "start": 702.02997, "end": 707.73 } ], "start": 690.845, "end": 707.73, "num_words": 57.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So joining government at that time, I guess that put somewhat of a chip on my shoulder.", "start": 708.26996, "end": 712.76996 }, { "text": "And then when George Floyd died, it was a scenario where I had to really do some self reflection and say, you know, prior to George Floyd, I was asking myself, like, when is this when is this gonna stop?", "start": 712.82996, "end": 724.625 }, { "text": "Like, when is this gonna change?", "start": 724.625, "end": 726.245 }, { "text": "After George Floyd, I really had to figure out what next steps I could take to really make an impact in that space.", "start": 726.54504, "end": 733.56 }, { "text": "So for me, it was really like leaning into folks within government.", "start": 734.26, "end": 740.26 } ], "start": 708.26996, "end": 740.26, "num_words": 98.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 740.26, "end": 740.74 }, { "text": "I think that was a broad community where I knew a lot of folks doing great great work.", "start": 740.74, "end": 746.54504 }, { "text": "And my thought was, how could I create more empathy for people from marginalized communities?", "start": 746.685, "end": 750.625 }, { "text": "And my first thought was like, well, maybe I could celebrate them.", "start": 750.765, "end": 753.42505 }, { "text": "You know?", "start": 753.72504, "end": 754.28503 } ], "start": 740.26, "end": 754.28503, "num_words": 48.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I, I didn't have the skill set of being a great photographer and amazing writer, like the founder of Humans of New York, but I knew I could stand up a website where public servants could be nominated.", "start": 754.28503, "end": 768.31 }, { "text": "And then once they're nominated, I could send that public servant a form asking them, who are you?", "start": 768.825, "end": 773.305 }, { "text": "What do you do?", "start": 773.305, "end": 774.205 }, { "text": "What inspired you to join government?", "start": 774.42505, "end": 776.765 }, { "text": "And what's been the highlight of your career?", "start": 776.825, "end": 778.685 } ], "start": 754.28503, "end": 778.685, "num_words": 74.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I prototyped with some friends, you know, just saying, hey.", "start": 780.185, "end": 784.01 }, { "text": "I got this idea.", "start": 784.01, "end": 785.05 }, { "text": "Would you be interested in sharing your story?", "start": 785.05, "end": 787.07 }, { "text": "Thankfully, a lot of them were from the civic tech community and were supporters.", "start": 787.45, "end": 791.31 }, { "text": "So shout out to my team that folks and a few others.", "start": 791.37, "end": 795.63 } ], "start": 780.185, "end": 795.63, "num_words": 48.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 795.995, "end": 796.15497 }, { "text": "We started posting in 2022.", "start": 796.15497, "end": 798.57495 }, { "text": "It didn't take off as much as I thought it would on Instagram, but a good friend of mine said, hey.", "start": 799.035, "end": 803.755 }, { "text": "You should try LinkedIn, and it took off.", "start": 803.755, "end": 805.51495 }, { "text": "So definitely grateful for, you know, those early supporters because if it weren't for them, we wouldn't be here.", "start": 805.51495, "end": 811.97 } ], "start": 795.995, "end": 811.97, "num_words": 54.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "But I really just wanna make a difference in regards to how can we create more empathy for people in public service, and how can we attract the next generation and encourage them to join public service and make a difference.", "start": 811.97, "end": 824.23 } ], "start": 811.97, "end": 824.23, "num_words": 41.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It sounds like, some of that that why, like, really comes from a place of of vulnerability, which I imagine as you're asking folks to kind of answer similar types of questions, I imagine there's a bit of why sprinkled in there.", "start": 825.305, "end": 837.78503 }, { "text": "They may reach into a similar space.", "start": 838.10504, "end": 840.04504 }, { "text": "Is that something you've seen kind of as you've built these these profiles of folks that get nominated?", "start": 840.58, "end": 844.44 } ], "start": 825.305, "end": 844.44, "num_words": 67.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 845.7, "end": 846.02 }, { "text": "For sure.", "start": 846.02, "end": 846.5 }, { "text": "There's actually someone that we recently, spoke to, and asked to share their story.", "start": 846.5, "end": 853.72 }, { "text": "And it wasn't until we really had the conversation with them that they realized that their mom was really the person that inspired them to serve and serve others and and to, continue to give.", "start": 854.08496, "end": 866.725 }, { "text": "And this lady is a in school social worker in Oklahoma helping people, you know, get to doctor's appointments, dentist appointments.", "start": 866.725, "end": 875.99 } ], "start": 845.7, "end": 875.99, "num_words": 73.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Like, she was telling us a story the other day about how there was a student who had a severe, like, challenge with his teeth, and, his family didn't have a way to get to a doctor and nor, you know, an insurance plan to really help get the cost covered.", "start": 876.13, "end": 896.005 }, { "text": "But through her social work tools and skill set, she was able to find the insurance, needed to help reduce the cost and actually find a way for this kid to get to the dentist.", "start": 896.3, "end": 906.86 }, { "text": "And, like, years later, his smile's on point.", "start": 906.86, "end": 909.74 }, { "text": "And, you know, I think it's hard to sort of describe the impact that someone in social work would really have and just something like getting someone to the dentist and getting their, you know, teeth or dental work done or or or dressed.", "start": 909.74, "end": 925.395 }, { "text": "Like, that person's, you know, self confidence.", "start": 925.395, "end": 929.16003 } ], "start": 876.13, "end": 929.16003, "num_words": 145.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know, bullying today in schools is very different than when we were in school.", "start": 930.66003, "end": 934.74005 }, { "text": "So, like, to be able to help that person in that way, I think, you know, is just incredible.", "start": 934.74005, "end": 939.56 }, { "text": "So so for all of that, I I I just say that, yeah, coming from that vulnerable vulnerable place, doing some reflection on, like, what is really moving people to serve is something that I hope to continue to highlight, and I think it's just important for folks to hear.", "start": 939.7, "end": 956.19 }, { "text": "You know?", "start": 956.19, "end": 956.67004 }, { "text": "Like, similar to my story, no one ever really talked about the importance of service in my in my house, but I knew that's how they spent their time.", "start": 956.67004, "end": 964.45 } ], "start": 930.66003, "end": 964.45, "num_words": 115.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Vulnerability is key.", "start": 964.91003, "end": 965.95 }, { "text": "I think it's an important trait in leadership these days.", "start": 965.95, "end": 968.43005 }, { "text": "You know?", "start": 968.43005, "end": 969.015 }, { "text": "Being able to connect with folks and share that you're not perfect, I think people will trust you more.", "start": 969.09503, "end": 974.315 } ], "start": 964.91003, "end": 974.315, "num_words": 34.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "As you've got on to the world seeking those types of stories, those places where you can share in that vulnerability, How do you go about finding folks that are willing to to talk about that, and how do you choose what ultimately ends up on humans in public service?", "start": 975.015, "end": 989.0 } ], "start": 975.015, "end": 989.0, "num_words": 50.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's a couple different things.", "start": 989.62, "end": 991.06 }, { "text": "Like, I'd say the first thing that really encourages us to follow-up and highlight this person is how they respond and what the nominator really says about them.", "start": 991.06, "end": 1005.025 }, { "text": "We have some instances where folks see this as an opportunity to really just drop in their resume, and that's not really what we're looking for.", "start": 1005.72504, "end": 1014.03 }, { "text": "Like, we don't aspire to be the next LinkedIn.", "start": 1014.03, "end": 1016.45 }, { "text": "I say if anything, we'd wanna be, like, the charming public server recruiter or advocate, but just sharing your resume isn't really gonna do that.", "start": 1016.99005, "end": 1025.795 } ], "start": 989.62, "end": 1025.795, "num_words": 93.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We're really trying to create connection, not only through the stories that are told, but hopefully in the future through the pictures that are shared as well.", "start": 1025.795, "end": 1033.715 }, { "text": "So I'd say, one, it's like, what do the nominator say about you?", "start": 1033.715, "end": 1041.3301 }, { "text": "What type of work are you doing?", "start": 1041.3301, "end": 1042.9501 }, { "text": "Where are you located is a big driver right now.", "start": 1043.41, "end": 1046.13 }, { "text": "Like, I don't wanna be considered an organization that only supports federal government or is only for people in the DC area or is only for coastal.", "start": 1046.13, "end": 1055.525 } ], "start": 1025.795, "end": 1055.525, "num_words": 84.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Like, I'm really trying to to reach Middle America and celebrate them and let them know that they're welcome here.", "start": 1055.5851, "end": 1062.405 }, { "text": "Sometimes in government, there's a dynamic between the regions and headquarters, and I don't wanna be seen as headquarters.", "start": 1062.9451, "end": 1065.0144 }, { "text": "No slights to, headquarters.", "start": 1065.0144, "end": 1068.6699 }, { "text": "No slights to, the folks that work work in HQ, but I wanna make sure the temperature of the relationship between, the regions in the DC area remains warm and fuzzy.", "start": 1068.6699, "end": 1083.135 }, { "text": "So, we welcome them.", "start": 1083.355, "end": 1085.995 } ], "start": 1055.5851, "end": 1085.995, "num_words": 78.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We need them, and we wanna celebrate them because, just like us here in this area, we still need people to come and work for the government and to and to, be passionate about it.", "start": 1085.995, "end": 1096.87 } ], "start": 1085.995, "end": 1096.87, "num_words": 35.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I think I'm hearing from your description there that you're you're kinda reaching back to the two foundational principles you talked about earlier, notion of representation when you're talking about hiring, and then also that, humanization and empathy building, that you wanna, like that someone coming upon these stories, you would like them to kinda see grow within them.", "start": 1097.25, "end": 1114.775 }, { "text": "Am am I kinda understanding that correctly with how you're you're viewing this?", "start": 1114.775, "end": 1118.395 } ], "start": 1097.25, "end": 1118.395, "num_words": 72.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "A 100%.", "start": 1118.855, "end": 1119.8151 }, { "text": "I'm always trying to strike that balance, and it can be a lot at times.", "start": 1119.8151, "end": 1123.87 }, { "text": "It's like making sure there's representation across the different levels of government because we aren't solely federal, making sure that there's representation across the states, making sure we have representation across gender identity.", "start": 1123.87, "end": 1138.05 }, { "text": "You name it.", "start": 1139.2251, "end": 1139.9451 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1139.9451, "end": 1140.3451 } ], "start": 1118.855, "end": 1140.3451, "num_words": 54.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I think we're truly striving for that balance and even maybe leaning a little bit more towards voices that are often unheard.", "start": 1140.3451, "end": 1149.0651 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1149.0651, "end": 1149.385 }, { "text": "Like, how do we make sure everyone's there, but giving an extra boost or additional outreach to those that are often unheard.", "start": 1149.385, "end": 1157.7 }, { "text": "And I feel like that could be Middle America at times.", "start": 1157.7, "end": 1160.2 } ], "start": 1140.3451, "end": 1160.2, "num_words": 56.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "As you think about the future of humans of public service, what would you say your vision is?", "start": 1160.82, "end": 1166.6 } ], "start": 1160.82, "end": 1166.6, "num_words": 18.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Going back to being that charming recruiter.", "start": 1166.975, "end": 1169.155 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1169.4551, "end": 1169.6951 }, { "text": "It's like, how do we a couple a couple interesting ideas that have been coming to mind for me lately.", "start": 1169.6951, "end": 1177.215 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1177.215, "end": 1177.615 }, { "text": "It's like, one, being nationally recognized as, like, where public servants are welcome.", "start": 1177.615, "end": 1183.4 } ], "start": 1166.975, "end": 1183.4, "num_words": 42.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And if you wanted to learn about government, you'd wanna come here.", "start": 1183.4, "end": 1187.02 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1187.08, "end": 1187.58 }, { "text": "It's not it's it's plain language speak.", "start": 1187.72, "end": 1191.02 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1191.24, "end": 1191.72 }, { "text": "It's familiar faces.", "start": 1191.72, "end": 1193.42 } ], "start": 1183.4, "end": 1193.42, "num_words": 24.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It's like, oh, this is what our government does, and I'm proud.", "start": 1193.56, "end": 1197.9751 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1198.275, "end": 1198.5951 }, { "text": "That's going back to some of that charming recruiter and advocate.", "start": 1198.5951, "end": 1201.5751 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1201.635, "end": 1202.135 }, { "text": "You can come here, maybe see someone from your city eating deep dish or even a thin slice, like that that best New York City slice and saying, oh, I connect with them.", "start": 1202.275, "end": 1213.15 } ], "start": 1193.56, "end": 1213.15, "num_words": 58.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "That's familiar.", "start": 1213.15, "end": 1213.89 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1214.11, "end": 1214.61 }, { "text": "In addition to that, I really wanna be a convener.", "start": 1214.99, "end": 1218.37 }, { "text": "So what we're doing right now is really sharing stories and, ideally, getting those stories in front of folks that are curious about the government and maybe even curious about a career path into government.", "start": 1219.515, "end": 1231.615 }, { "text": "But I would love to do, like, an annual celebration, maybe switching up the city every year based on either demand or, let's say, nomination interest.", "start": 1232.22, "end": 1242.54 } ], "start": 1213.15, "end": 1242.54, "num_words": 74.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Like, if we're getting 200 nominations out of Chicago, wouldn't it be great if we could show up to that city, celebrate the public servants there, and, go to another one the next year?", "start": 1242.54, "end": 1254.985 }, { "text": "I'd say being recognized nationally and just having stories from every state, city, location, and being able to celebrate those folks in person, that's really the dream.", "start": 1255.5249, "end": 1267.72 } ], "start": 1242.54, "end": 1267.72, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "In our, prep conversation, you mentioned, kinda related to storytelling as you're talking about this idea of kind of having enhanced methods that you'd like to introduce as you go into the future that would aid in getting the this message out to those, broader geographical areas that you're talking about.", "start": 1268.58, "end": 1285.44 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1285.44, "end": 1285.6 }, { "text": "Like, trying to get to folks in Middle America and different states, different places.", "start": 1285.6, "end": 1289.2999 }, { "text": "How do you see those methods aiding and and getting to that goal?", "start": 1289.9199, "end": 1293.62 } ], "start": 1268.58, "end": 1293.62, "num_words": 79.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Man, I'm fired up now.", "start": 1294.88, "end": 1296.24 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1296.24, "end": 1296.74 }, { "text": "I forgot all about that.", "start": 1296.7999, "end": 1298.34 }, { "text": "One of the things we're thinking about and potentially wanna partner with a few organizations on is maybe, like, an oral history.", "start": 1298.5599, "end": 1307.625 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1308.325, "end": 1308.725 } ], "start": 1294.88, "end": 1308.725, "num_words": 34.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So I think there's certain moments when the government really responds and shows up in ways that folks don't really give them enough credit for.", "start": 1308.725, "end": 1318.51 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1318.89, "end": 1319.39 }, { "text": "Some of these scenarios, I feel like, are once the pandemic kicked off and people can go into the offices go into their respective offices and and work.", "start": 1320.41, "end": 1330.75 }, { "text": "Our government showed up in a way where people were able to get money quickly, and it kept a lot of businesses and organizations afloat.", "start": 1331.545, "end": 1339.725 }, { "text": "Now you probably haven't heard the government's perspective from the people that were involved in that and what it looked like and who those heroes were.", "start": 1340.745, "end": 1351.1001 } ], "start": 1308.725, "end": 1351.1001, "num_words": 105.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 1351.2401, "end": 1351.7401 }, { "text": "Right now, we're going through a situation where I think FEMA has a shortage of staff due to these back to back hurricanes, natural natural disasters.", "start": 1354.52, "end": 1366.615 }, { "text": "But I bet you our government's gonna show up.", "start": 1367.395, "end": 1369.575 }, { "text": "I bet you they're gonna find a way.", "start": 1369.715, "end": 1371.155 }, { "text": "They're gonna figure it out on a dime and support these cities and towns.", "start": 1371.155, "end": 1375.655 } ], "start": 1351.2401, "end": 1375.655, "num_words": 58.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We probably won't ever really get thanks for it.", "start": 1376.2699, "end": 1378.2699 }, { "text": "And you probably won't hear about the people that were able to address those gaps or use their network to convene multiple people and mobilize them to respond to the need.", "start": 1378.2699, "end": 1388.9299 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1389.455, "end": 1389.775 }, { "text": "And I think there's a great opportunity to evolve the human to public service process to do that type of storytelling.", "start": 1389.775, "end": 1396.995 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1397.775, "end": 1398.255 } ], "start": 1376.2699, "end": 1398.255, "num_words": 63.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Like, we already have individuals sort of telling their story personally, But what if we convene those folks that were involved at a very critical moment and inspired the readers of humans of public service to feel a sense of pride in their government in the way they show up on a dime and and solve solve a problem.", "start": 1398.255, "end": 1418.045 }, { "text": "So many times, you might hear the phrase, oh, that's good enough for government.", "start": 1418.045, "end": 1423.345 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1423.405, "end": 1423.725 }, { "text": "But government's incredible, man.", "start": 1423.725, "end": 1426.365 }, { "text": "We're we're a force.", "start": 1426.365, "end": 1427.165 } ], "start": 1398.255, "end": 1427.165, "num_words": 82.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We do a lot of great things, and I don't know if it's the algorithms that encourage, like, the bad news stories or what, but there's gotta be a way to buck the trend and, celebrate the people that really respond when we need them the most.", "start": 1427.165, "end": 1439.56 } ], "start": 1427.165, "end": 1439.56, "num_words": 47.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Continuing on that this topic of storytelling, we also talked a bit about agencies as they, you know, try to seek out folks to recruit, bring on.", "start": 1440.34, "end": 1449.105 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1449.105, "end": 1449.605 }, { "text": "And you mentioned this, idea that agencies should be trying to get better at telling their story and that there's maybe this tendency to start to get hooked on expertise, which can lead to some, like, risk aversion and how they're going about kinda, like, hiring processes, that sort of thing.", "start": 1449.905, "end": 1464.05 }, { "text": "As you see it, like, what kind of challenges are they facing, and how how can they be helped to kind of achieve the things that that we've talked about?", "start": 1464.11, "end": 1470.85 } ], "start": 1440.34, "end": 1470.85, "num_words": 109.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know, I think there's capacity challenges.", "start": 1471.685, "end": 1474.505 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1474.565, "end": 1475.065 }, { "text": "And I think going back to a statement I made earlier, it's like, how can you be a greater partner?", "start": 1475.445, "end": 1480.985 }, { "text": "Just be in a design groupie.", "start": 1481.685, "end": 1483.305 }, { "text": "One of the questions that are often asked in design spaces when they're trying to solve a problem is, like, how might we?", "start": 1483.9099, "end": 1489.45 } ], "start": 1471.685, "end": 1489.45, "num_words": 57.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And I think if that question were asked more, I think the government would figure out a way to sort of address some of these challenges.", "start": 1489.6699, "end": 1495.11 }, { "text": "But HR offices are often understaffed.", "start": 1495.11, "end": 1498.285 }, { "text": "Right?", "start": 1498.745, "end": 1499.245 }, { "text": "And a lot of what they're focusing on is just, like, making sure we adhere to the to the process, when it comes to hiring talent.", "start": 1499.305, "end": 1508.125 }, { "text": "But adding on additional capability of outreach and communication, I think that's something where there's opportunity to partner with comms offices who are often, from what I've seen, also understaffed.", "start": 1508.425, "end": 1521.8 } ], "start": 1489.6699, "end": 1521.8, "num_words": 89.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Right?", "start": 1522.66, "end": 1523.06 }, { "text": "But what I'm really hoping is from a hiring manager plus, you know, hiring professional and plus a comms person, could it be a situation where one plus one plus one equals four instead of just three?", "start": 1523.06, "end": 1539.47 }, { "text": "Like, their powers combined can make something great.", "start": 1539.47, "end": 1542.77 }, { "text": "And I think that could ultimately lead to a really great, like, hiring campaign.", "start": 1543.23, "end": 1547.57 }, { "text": "If they sat down together, talked about what the needs were, put a face to the hiring manager name or a face to the department or division that has the need, I think they'd probably get greater responses because the person articulating the need, ideally, the hiring manager, could speak to the work in a way where that hiring manager ideally will only receive resumes from people that feel that they have the skill set and the passion to align to the work.", "start": 1547.95, "end": 1575.0599 } ], "start": 1522.66, "end": 1575.0599, "num_words": 143.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I think sometimes more often than not, the language in, job posting isn't necessarily the clearest, isn't necessarily the plainest, and some folks may be hiring, without really knowing what the what the real work is.", "start": 1575.52, "end": 1589.5951 }, { "text": "So, hopefully, this would increase the quality of candidates.", "start": 1590.2151, "end": 1593.515 }, { "text": "Hopefully, this would be more shareable content that might reach, communities that often wouldn't be reached and, you know, could address some of those gaps.", "start": 1593.5751, "end": 1604.33 }, { "text": "But I think it's, again, finding ways to partner.", "start": 1604.33, "end": 1607.21 }, { "text": "And, hopefully, with humans of public service, I would love to engage ideally state and local organizations on different templates or way we can create content that's shareable and a little bit more engaging to fill these gaps.", "start": 1607.21, "end": 1619.645 } ], "start": 1575.52, "end": 1619.645, "num_words": 117.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "It it sounds a bit like a selection bias.", "start": 1621.145, "end": 1624.42 }, { "text": "I think it's, like, a a bit of what what you're describing there for for some of these postings where and maybe it's, like, a bias based on effectively confidence or or one's willingness to ignore bullet points that that they don't have", "start": 1624.42, "end": 1635.78 } ], "start": 1621.145, "end": 1635.78, "num_words": 52.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Yeah.", "start": 1635.9401, "end": 1636.06 }, { "text": "Offer a for", "start": 1636.18, "end": 1636.98 } ], "start": 1635.9401, "end": 1636.98, "num_words": 4.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "a post, which is maybe, like, a little bit of a psychological thing.", "start": 1636.98, "end": 1639.755 }, { "text": "But I am I kind of pulling out the right thread there?", "start": 1639.755, "end": 1642.235 }, { "text": "Is that something you you're seeing?", "start": 1642.235, "end": 1643.675 } ], "start": 1636.98, "end": 1643.675, "num_words": 31.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "I'd say I'd say potentially selection bias, but I also feel like once you get into government, you get more familiar with that language.", "start": 1643.675, "end": 1652.475 }, { "text": "And I feel like more often than not, the job postings are written for people already in government.", "start": 1652.475, "end": 1658.83 }, { "text": "Like, who else speaks that language?", "start": 1659.21, "end": 1660.91 }, { "text": "You know?", "start": 1661.29, "end": 1661.77 }, { "text": "Who else knows what an 11 o two is or an IT specialist if you aren't in government?", "start": 1661.77, "end": 1667.15 } ], "start": 1643.675, "end": 1667.15, "num_words": 68.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "You know?", "start": 1668.015, "end": 1668.675 }, { "text": "So if we could figure out how to reframe and maybe put a little bit instead of, like, redoing the entire, like, job series structure and how they're written, could we just do a overlay of a ninety second clip of a hiring manager saying in plain language what the work is, what they need, and why someone should apply to the job?", "start": 1668.8151, "end": 1691.53 }, { "text": "I think that's a lot better than just redoing the whole thing and starting over.", "start": 1692.07, "end": 1696.09 }, { "text": "You know?", "start": 1696.47, "end": 1696.95 }, { "text": "Just a little translator decoder ring, I think, could go a long way to getting additional people in.", "start": 1696.95, "end": 1703.665 } ], "start": 1668.015, "end": 1703.665, "num_words": 100.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "If someone out there listening is hearing this and they're going, wow.", "start": 1704.4451, "end": 1708.8451 }, { "text": "Like, I I'm excited by humans of public service, service, and I wanna I wanna do something.", "start": 1708.8451, "end": 1713.94 }, { "text": "Like, I wanna I wanna help this happen.", "start": 1713.94, "end": 1715.94 }, { "text": "I wanna help it continue.", "start": 1715.94, "end": 1717.24 }, { "text": "I wanna support this mission.", "start": 1717.62, "end": 1718.9199 } ], "start": 1704.4451, "end": 1718.9199, "num_words": 47.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "What would be the best way for them to go about trying to do that?", "start": 1719.2999, "end": 1722.84 } ], "start": 1719.2999, "end": 1722.84, "num_words": 15.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Oh, sure.", "start": 1723.86, "end": 1724.6799 }, { "text": "So I would say the first thing I'd say the easiest thing, follow us on Instagram or LinkedIn.", "start": 1724.74, "end": 1731.335 }, { "text": "Just you can find us at public service on both, Instagram and LinkedIn.", "start": 1732.115, "end": 1737.015 }, { "text": "But if you wanna get more meaningfully involved, there's a couple different things you could do.", "start": 1737.235, "end": 1741.99 }, { "text": "So you could check out our website.", "start": 1741.99, "end": 1743.93 } ], "start": 1723.86, "end": 1743.93, "num_words": 56.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "And I think by the time that this goes live, our new website and our new design should be should be live.", "start": 1744.4701, "end": 1750.7101 }, { "text": "So check that out if you get a chance, but there'll be a link on the site called get involved.", "start": 1750.7101, "end": 1755.05 }, { "text": "You could, sign up to be a volunteer.", "start": 1755.465, "end": 1758.0449 }, { "text": "There's a variety of skill sets that we need from, let's say, design to, communications, copy editing, to, just general, like, ways to support our operations.", "start": 1758.4249, "end": 1769.225 }, { "text": "We eventually wanna get into events.", "start": 1769.225, "end": 1771.08 } ], "start": 1744.4701, "end": 1771.08, "num_words": 82.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So if you have that experience or even volunteer management, that'd be huge.", "start": 1771.08, "end": 1775.5 }, { "text": "You could reach out and inquire about being a sponsor of humans to public service, or you could always donate as well.", "start": 1775.96, "end": 1783.4199 }, { "text": "And last but not least, and I hope this sort of goes without saying, we'll always take a good nomination.", "start": 1784.035, "end": 1788.935 }, { "text": "You know?", "start": 1789.235, "end": 1789.715 }, { "text": "We wouldn't exist without the opportunity to celebrate public servants.", "start": 1789.955, "end": 1793.715 } ], "start": 1771.08, "end": 1793.715, "num_words": 67.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So if you have the time, if there's someone that's, made a meaningful impact to you or their dedication, rings loud in your community, feel free to nominate them, and, we'll find a way to get them celebrated.", "start": 1793.715, "end": 1804.9199 } ], "start": 1793.715, "end": 1804.9199, "num_words": 38.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Awesome.", "start": 1805.7, "end": 1806.02 }, { "text": "And just to be labor the point to make sure that the calls to action are there.", "start": 1806.02, "end": 1809.88 }, { "text": "So I I think I'm hearing you're you're open for nominations.", "start": 1810.34, "end": 1812.6799 }, { "text": "If if they if someone out there knows somebody who's a a human of public service that they'd like to see their story feature, they should reach out.", "start": 1812.82, "end": 1819.8151 }, { "text": "And also, I I think I heard there that you're open to sponsorship.", "start": 1820.115, "end": 1822.775 } ], "start": 1805.7, "end": 1822.775, "num_words": 70.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "So I like to think there's people out there as cool jobs that can suggest these things, but they should be, like, running to wherever they have to go to to try to get, sponsorship your way.", "start": 1823.075, "end": 1831.84 }, { "text": "Am I am I hearing that correctly?", "start": 1831.84, "end": 1833.06 } ], "start": 1823.075, "end": 1833.06, "num_words": 44.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "A 100%.", "start": 1833.28, "end": 1834.16 }, { "text": "Don't wait.", "start": 1834.16, "end": 1834.9 }, { "text": "Don't wait.", "start": 1835.04, "end": 1835.6 }, { "text": "Just do it now.", "start": 1835.6, "end": 1836.66 }, { "text": "Send the email.", "start": 1837.12, "end": 1838.0801 } ], "start": 1833.28, "end": 1838.0801, "num_words": 13.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "We'll talk.", "start": 1838.0801, "end": 1838.8201 } ], "start": 1838.0801, "end": 1838.8201, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 1 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Awesome.", "start": 1839.895, "end": 1840.135 }, { "text": "Well, Brian, thank you so much for for taking the time to, to share with us here on Civic Tech Chat.", "start": 1840.135, "end": 1845.175 }, { "text": "I I have no doubt folks are gonna find something they can take and better their day with it.", "start": 1845.175, "end": 1849.835 } ], "start": 1839.895, "end": 1849.835, "num_words": 41.0, "speaker": 0 }, { "sentences": [ { "text": "Awesome.", "start": 1849.895, "end": 1850.395 }, { "text": "Thanks so much for having me, Ryan.", "start": 1850.455, "end": 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