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Sie kann zum Beispiel gro\u00dfe Mengen unstrukturierter Daten wie Textdokumente, Gesetze und Berichte effizient verarbeiten. Was allerdings 'n bisschen weniger effizient ist, viele Beh\u00f6rden basteln an ihre eigenen KI L\u00f6sung. Ist das wirklich n\u00f6tig? Wie kann die Verwaltung zusammenarbeiten, Anwendungen miteinander zu teilen? Dazu hat das Kompetenzzentrum \u00f6ffentliche IT k\u00fcrzlich eine Vorstudie vorgestellt. Die Ergebnisse wollen wir uns in dieser Podcastfolge anschauen. Herzlich willkommen beim \u00f6FIT Podcast restart digital, eine Produktion des Fraunhofer Instituts f\u00fcr offene Kommunikationssysteme. Ich bin Philipp 1 und ich begr\u00fc\u00dfe meine beiden Co Hosts. Das ist zum einen Jens Tiemann. Er befasst sich mit den technischen Grundlagen der Digitalisierung. Schwerpunkte seiner Arbeit liegen im Bereich Internet, Vernetzung und neue Technologien. Herzlich willkommen Jens. Ja hallo. Und mit dabei Doktor Mike Weber. Er ist Trendforscher und stellvertretender Leiter des \u00dcft, auch unser Stammgast hier im Studio. Hallo Mike. Hallo Philipp. Ja, schauen wir zun\u00e4chst mal, was KI Bots in den Beh\u00f6rden so k\u00f6nnen. L l Moin, der Name klingt vielleicht 'n bisschen albern, aber die Anwendung der Hamburger Verwaltung, die hat's in sich. Ja, was kann die jetzt? Ja, so typischerweise, also wir reden ja, wie Du eben schon erz\u00e4hlt hast, wir reden \u00fcber die Anwendung von Sprachmodellen in der \u00f6ffentlichen Verwaltung. Und Verwaltung arbeiten nat\u00fcrlich viel mit Sprache, dass dort Texte verarbeitet werden, dass das auf Texten basiert, zum Beispiel meinetwegen Koalitionsvertr\u00e4gen, aber auch Antr\u00e4ge, die reinkommen. Und solche Sprachmodelle oder solche Anwendungen k\u00f6nnen dann Texte zusammenfassen, Texte umformulieren, zum Beispiel auch in einfacher Sprache oder man kann eben aus Stichworten Texte formulieren lassen. Was sind da so ganz konkrete Anwendungsfelder jetzt in der Hamburger Verwaltung? Oh, in der Hamburger Verwaltung. Also welche Texte m\u00fcssen die zusammen was machen lassen? Also in Hamburg wei\u00df ich das jetzt gerade nicht. In eine typische Anwendung ist, dass der Grundstock an Ver\u00f6ffentlichung, Pressemeldungen und so weiter, Regierungserkl\u00e4rung und so was ist dort verf\u00fcgbar, kann recherchiert werden und kann dementsprechend, wenn zum Beispiel Anfragen kommen oder so was, kann das effizient verarbeitet werden und dann kann man muss man also nicht selber in diesem Wust an Daten suchen, sondern kann sagen, okay, ich m\u00f6chte zu dieser Frage etwas beantworten. Eine kleine Anfrage beispielsweise im Parlament und dann sagt man, okay, welche Grundlagen gibt's daf\u00fcr? Was stand in der Regierungserkl\u00e4rung? Und dann wird das zusammengefasst. Ja, also Texte auswerten, Texte neu zusammenfassen auch wieder aus den ausgewerteten, das klingt auch so, als w\u00e4r das einfach wirklich effizienter, ne? Als das, was die Verwaltungsmitarbeitenden vorher sonst h\u00e4ndisch machen mussten. Ja, es ist einfach ein sehr potentes Werkzeug, ne? Die Idee muss man nat\u00fcrlich selber mitbringen und das Denken kommt nat\u00fcrlich weiter von den Verwaltungsmitarbeitenden, aber dann das auszuformulieren oder nochmal umzuformulieren, weil zum Beispiel Texte aus der Verwaltung typischerweise in 'nem gewissen Stil B\u00fcrgerinnen und B\u00fcrger erwarten. Da hilft das nat\u00fcrlich sehr weiter. Das hei\u00dft, da Das geht dort nicht automatische Entscheidungen oder so was, sondern es geht wirklich Textarbeit, Formulierungen, in Dokumenten suchen, recherchieren, \u00fcbersetzen, solche Fragen. Nun kann genau das nat\u00fcrlich auch Also Texte zusammenfassen, Inhalte generieren, ne, recherchieren. Das k\u00f6nnen ja auch alles g\u00e4ngige Tools wie ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity, wie sie alle hei\u00dfen. Mike, warum brauchen Beh\u00f6rden eigene Tools daf\u00fcr? Das kommt immer ganz auf den Anwendungsfall an. Also es gibt sicherlich auch Anwendungsf\u00e4lle, f\u00fcr die Weihnachtskarte zum Beispiel kann ich auch problemlos Chat GPT benutzen und da gibt's keine keine Beschr\u00e4nkung. Schwierig wird es dann, wenn ich sensible Daten verwende nat\u00fcrlich. Also da gibt es ja auch unterschiedliche Abschubungen, aber sp\u00e4testens, wenn es in in auch nur die in den Verdacht geriert, dass es personenbezogenen Daten geht. In dem Moment brauch ich nat\u00fcrlich 'n gesch\u00fctzten Raum und kann diese Daten nicht irgendwo in die Welt hinauspusten. Sicherheitsaspekte betroffen sind, nat\u00fcrlich noch viel, viel mehr. 'N weiterer Aspekt ist nat\u00fcrlich auch, dass je intensiver man diese Tools nutzt und das Spektrum ist daher auch enorm, selbst beim bei bei der Ideenfindung gibt es ja mittlerweile Ans\u00e4tze, Chatbots dazu zu benutzen, mit denen gemeinsam zu brainstormen und dann weiterzukommen. Je intensiver ich die nutze und je mehr Funktionen sie erf\u00fcllen, desto abh\u00e4ngiger bin ich nat\u00fcrlich auch davon und desto wichtiger ist es, dass ich die wesentlichen Komponenten selbst in der Hand habe und selbst bestimmen kann. Stichwort digitale Souver\u00e4nit\u00e4t, aber das Thema hatten wir ja schon. Also Datenschutz spielt da eine Rolle, Jens? Ja und noch mal auf deine Frage zur\u00fcckzukommen. Wenn ich da jetzt mal technischer reingehen darf, dahinter steckt denn tats\u00e4chlich eventuell, was wir als ChatGPT kennen, dass ich jetzt also sozusagen 'n bisschen technisch reingucke, dann sind da 2 gro\u00dfe Bl\u00f6cke drin. Und das eine ist eine normale IT Anwendung in weiten Sinne, also zum Beispiel auch eine Datenbankabfrage, eine grafische Oberfl\u00e4che, diese ganzen Fragen aus 'ner Verwaltungs IT, wo nat\u00fcrlich das, was Mike sagte, eine Rolle spielt. Ist das sicher, ist das zuverl\u00e4ssig und so weiter. Und der andere Block, der wird im Moment noch, wie man aus den Diskussionen Sprache und Sprachmodelle und KI in Europa kennt, der andere Block sind halt gr\u00f6\u00dftenteils amerikanische Sprachmodelle. Man hofft jetzt, dass man Misstrauen europ\u00e4isches Modell hat. Es gibt chinesische Modelle. Das hei\u00dft, dieser Block der Sprachmodelle, der ist eigentlich immer der gleiche oder es kommt 'n kleiner Es gibt einen kleinen Stamm von diesen Sprachmodellen, die immer wieder benutzt werden. Und den m\u00f6chte man dann nat\u00fcrlich wieder, wie Mike gesagt hatte, nicht jetzt \u00fcbers Internet und offen und v\u00f6llig egal, wo das l\u00e4uft, sondern den m\u00f6chte man nat\u00fcrlich auch unter Kontrolle haben, Zusicherungen haben, dass das vertraulich behandelt wird, die Daten, die man r\u00fcber gibt und so weiter. Also das noch mal so klarzuziehen, es gibt ja einmal die Anwendung, l l 9 ist eine, ne? Genau. Und dann gibt's aber noch dahinterliegende Sprachmodell, das eben sowas wie GPT-4 von OpenAI, das kennen viele von ChatGPT. So, das hei\u00dft, die spielen aber hier auch zusammen. Richtig, genau. Also die die Anwendung selber ist grafische Oberfl\u00e4che, handelt die Anmeldung, dass man sich das nur befugter auf diese Anwendung zugreifen k\u00f6nnen, speichern vielleicht was auch zum Beispiel f\u00fcr die Dokumentation und so weiter. Und das unterscheidet sich jetzt nicht von 1 Standardverwaltungssoftware oder anderen Software. Der gro\u00dfe Funktionsblock, der jetzt hier neu ist und was das sozusagen spannend macht, weil das eine Kombination ist, ist halt ein gro\u00dfer Funktionsblock ist dieses Sprachmodell, was also dann angesprochen wird, was Ergebnisse zur\u00fcckliefert. Und da ist dann die Frage, wo l\u00e4uft es? Welches Modell ist es? Was kann ich davon erwarten? Was kostet das? Und so weiter. Mhm. Nun sagt ja aber Maike gerade, ob Datenschutz spielt auch eine Rolle, also es geht ja auch sensible Daten von B\u00fcrger*innen. Wenn jetzt aber das Sprachmodell hinter LL Moun in ein amerikanisches, n\u00e4mlich GPT4 ist, ne, also ist da nicht der Datenschutz ohnehin son bisschen kritisch auch bei diesen Eigenentwicklungen? Nein, es gibt da unterschiedliche Abstufungen, sag ich mal, wie man dann Datenschutzaspekte ber\u00fccksichtigen kann. Das Beste in der Hinsicht ist sicherlich, wenn das Modell selbst, 'n Umsourcen Modell lokal l\u00e4uft Und dann bleibt es auf den eigenen Servern Servern und hat wieder alle Aspekte selbst in der Hand und kann die entsprechend gestalten. Und es gibt auch Zwischenschritte dabei, dass man halt \u00fcber die Benutzerschnittstelle sicherstellt, dass keine individualisierbaren Daten weitergegeben werden. Also dass man keine Profilbildung von einzelnen Nutzenden einrichten kann, wie das ja bei, wenn ich das offen verwende und mich registriere da, dann w\u00e4re das ja eine M\u00f6glichkeit. Und wenn man dann noch 'n bisschen in die Schulung investiert und daf\u00fcr sorgt, dass keine direkten Personendaten eingegeben werden, dann kann man relativ sicher sein, dass man f\u00fcr eher unkritische Anwendungen auch mit soner einfachen Oberfl\u00e4che schon sehr viel an diesem Problem adressieren kann. Bleiben wir noch mal kurz bei L. M. 9. Das greift ja bereits auf die Parlamentsdatenbank von der Hamburger B\u00fcrgerschaft zur\u00fcck, aber eben noch sehr eingeschr\u00e4nkt. Wann kann die Anwendung wirklich so das gesamte Parlamentswissen anzapfen und das ganze Beh\u00f6rdenwissen vor allem? Ja, das theoretisch geht es jetzt schon. Also von der das ist dann eine organisatorische Frage, wie stelle ich diese Daten bereit? Vielleicht machen wir es eine 1 Nummer kleiner. Die Frage ist ja, ob diese Sprachmodelle, also was wir ja auch selber im Alltag kennen, ob zum Beispiel dieses Sprachmodell jetzt noch mal selber im im Web recherchiert und selber noch mal sucht im offenen Web, Ergebnisse kriegt und die f\u00fcr mich zusammenfasst. Also das ist ja, was wir ja zum Beispiel bei der Google Suche, dieses kleine KI Result, was da oben kommt, also ne. Das ist ja heutzutage dann halt \u00fcblich, dass so das miteinander kombiniert wird. Oder und das ist der andere gro\u00dfe Zweig, dass man sogenannte RAG Systeme, dass man dem einen speziellen Datensatz gibt, zum Beispiel interne Akten und so weiter und dann dieses Sprachmodell mit seinem gro\u00dfen, ich sag mal, Weltwissen in Anf\u00fchrungsstrichen sprechen kann mit einem, also die Frage versteht, eine Antwort formulieren kann, aber die Inhalte nur aus diesem Dokumentensatz kommen und dementsprechend dort dieses gro\u00dfe Problem der Halluzinationen, die wir ja beim KI kennen, dass man das halt reduziert. Sprechen wir mal \u00fcber die Vorstudie, die ihr ja sozusagen angesto\u00dfen habt. Da geht's ja die Kooperation bei der Entwicklung solcher KI Tools. Viele Beh\u00f6rden, die kochen ihr eigenes S\u00fcppchen und entwickeln Tools unabh\u00e4ngig voneinander. Bei L. Moin, da ist das anders. Die Frei- und Hansestadt Hamburg, die bietet auch anderen Verwaltungen an, den KI Assistenten zu nutzen. Wie genau funktioniert dieses Modell? Dass Verwaltung gerne ihr eigenes S\u00fcppchen kochen, da bin ich v\u00f6llig einverstanden, das passiert oft. Ich glaube hier an dieser Stelle aber ist der Punkt, dass KI so ein neues Thema ist, dass nat\u00fcrlich alle erst mal ausprobieren wollen, was geht da eigentlich? Und wenn man sich dann und die auch diese Vorteile nutzen m\u00f6chte und wenn man da warten w\u00fcrde und geruhsam erst mal sagt, was wollen wir eigentlich haben? Wie einigen wir uns und so weiter? Das w\u00e4re hier, glaube ich, nicht m\u00f6glich gewesen angesichts der rasant der Entwicklung, die wir ja bis ins Private sp\u00fcren, die Nutzung von Chatmodellen. Wenn ich da noch ganz kurz einen draufsetzen darf, es ist doch eigentlich 'n sehr positives Zeichen, dass die Verwaltung sich so schnell bewegt in diesem Umfeld und dass es wirklich versucht, diese Chancen zu nutzen. Also erst mal ist es sehr positiv, dass so viel Aktivit\u00e4t vorherrscht. Gut, aber dann stellt man nat\u00fcrlich fest, Du hattest diese verschiedenen Sachen, BR GPT in Berlin oder All Gute oder LL Moin. Es war eine der ersten Handlungsempfehlungen, die mir einfiel, w\u00e4re keine Sprachspiele mehr mit mit KI. Dass man also sagt, okay, da da sind die Anwendungen doch eigentlich gar nicht so unterschiedlich, sondern es ist immer dieses Formulieren von Texten, \u00dcbersetzen und so weiter. Und da kann man sich nat\u00fcrlich jetzt schon \u00fcberlegen, wie kann man da zusammenarbeiten? Was kann man da gemeinsam machen? Und genau das hat Hamburg ja gemacht Also genau das hat Hamburg im neuen. Das wird eben zur Verf\u00fcgung gestellt, auch f\u00fcr andere Verwaltungen. Genau. Das ist ja so ein Weg, den ihr auch beschreibt, die die Verwaltung gehen k\u00f6nnen. Richtig und da muss man jetzt noch den Dienstleister dazu nehmen. Also das L9 ist aufgebaut eben auf Initiative von Hamburg, aber mit dem IT Dienstleister Datapau zusammen. Dieses Angebot selbst, was jetzt zum Beispiel andere Kommunen, andere St\u00e4dte benutzen k\u00f6nnten, das bekommen sie dann von Dataport, also als als Dienstleister, der das anbietet f\u00fcr eine neue Community, die es auch nutzen m\u00f6chte. Und die kann da den Buch Also diesen Dienst einfach buchen, bekommt noch und da f\u00e4ngt das eben schon an mit der Zusammenarbeit. Die bekommt dann noch zum Beispiel Dokumente und Schulungsmaterial, was in Hamburg entwickelt wurde. Das bekommen die schon mal, damit die einfach schneller starten k\u00f6nnen und sagen k\u00f6nnen, okay, also so starten k\u00f6nnen und sagen k\u00f6nnen, okay, also so allgemeines Wissen KI, was also alle Mitarbeitenden in der \u00f6ffentlichen Verwaltung m\u00fcssen so ganz kurz eingewiesen werden in die Nutzung der KI. Und dieses Schulungsmaterial, das kann man nat\u00fcrlich universell verwenden. Und Du hattest es angesprochen, wenn dann gesagt wird, okay, wir wollen jetzt die Parlamentsdaten da verarbeiten, dann muss nat\u00fcrlich in 'ner anderen Stadt ein anderer Datensatz rein. Aber so f\u00e4ngt das an, dass man sagen kann, okay, man kann zusammenarbeiten, man kann Vorarbeiten nutzen. Niedersachsen ist tats\u00e4chlich genau darauf angesprungen. Die nieders\u00e4chsische Verwaltung, die hat l l mhoin implementiert sozusagen in die eigene IT Infrastruktur. Das mhoin, das passt ja nach Niedersachsen auch ganz gut, w\u00fcrde ich sagen. Wenn wir uns jetzt mal anschauen, was die Vorteile sind, es ist halt wahnsinnig schnell, ne? Also man kann auf bestehende Strukturen aufbauen, man kann sie sogar \u00fcbernehmen. Der Betreiber DataPort, der verspricht innerhalb von 6 Wochen. Da lie\u00dfe sich LL Moin woanders implementieren. Mike hat aber wahrscheinlich auch 'n paar Nachteile, oder? Also wie ich's das verstanden hab, l\u00e4sst sich das Tool ja nur schlecht individuell anpassen. Oh, da m\u00fcsste ich jetzt DataPort fragen, die werden das wahrscheinlich anders sehen. Nein, aber genau da ist ist nat\u00fcrlich die Krux. Es gibt ja ganz unterschiedliche Art und Weisen, wie ich dann meine Softwarel\u00f6sung zur Verf\u00fcgung stellen kann. Und bei LL9 ist es tats\u00e4chlich eine Variante, die enorme Vorteile bringt, weil es schnell geht, weil noch weitere Dokumente mitgeliefert werden, also der der gesamte Bereich abgedeckt wird, der erforderlich ist. Hat aber dann genau dann auf der anderen Seite das Problem, dass ich's nat\u00fcrlich nicht allzu tief selbst gestalten kann in dem System selbst oder in der Anwendung selbst. Da sind andere gehen 'n ganz anderen Weg. F 13 zum Beispiel, das halt komplett Open Source gestellt ist, wo ich theoretisch die Software nehmen kann und sie bei mir selbst einrichten kann. F 13, das ist das Beispiel aus Baden W\u00fcrttemberg. Die machen's nun wirklich eben, wie Du sagst, ganz anders, ne? Genau. Und das hat halt beides so seine Vor- und Nachteile. Das eine halt geht schnell, ist vergleichsweise einfach. Das andere ist nat\u00fcrlich sehr viel komplexer, muss ich sehr viel mehr an Expertise mitbringen und auch sehr viel mehr selbst aufbauen und die ganzen Compliance Sachen mehr oder minder selbst entwickeln. Daf\u00fcr hab ich die Gestaltung wieder sehr stark in der Hand. Also ein Tod muss ich sterben. Ja, vielleicht das noch mal diese Compliance m\u00f6cht ich noch mal unterst\u00fctzen. Das, aber Sie haben auch mit Anwendern gesprochen und die KI Tool im, so KI Tools im Verwaltungskontext richtig zu benutzen, Datenschutz einzubinden und KI Verordnung zu ber\u00fccksichtigen und so weiter, das ist halt 'n gro\u00dfes Thema. Also neue Verwaltungsverfahren einzuf\u00fchren, meistens \u00fcber 'n Dienstleister und so weiter, ist sowieso schon anstrengend und bei KI, aufgrund der Cloud Verarbeitung und so weiter, kommen da noch 'n paar Schippen drauf. Und deshalb ist es nicht so sehr eine technische Frage eigentlich in der Komplexit\u00e4t, sondern es ist wirklich eher eine organisatorische Frage und ja. Und dann muss man eben gucken und wo kann ich schneiden? Wie kann Was kann ich schon bekommen und was kann ich denn f\u00fcr meine eigenen Bed\u00fcrfnisse anpassen? Und da sag ich mal, da gibt es 2 Seiten, 'n Logo neu reinzubringen von der von der Stadt, von der Gemeinde oder so was. Das ist \u00fcberhaupt kein Thema, das ist \u00fcberall vorgesehen. Die Frage ist zum Beispiel, ob man das Sprachmodell auswechseln kann, wenn man da Bedarf dran hat. Und da ist dann halt El Moyn eher eingeschr\u00e4nkt oder man m\u00fcsste gucken, kann man da was machen, dann ist der Aufwand wieder gr\u00f6\u00dfer oder man nimmt so das Paket, wie es funktioniert. Neues Logo rein, kleiner Hinweis an die Mitarbeiter und also lokaler Hinweis an die Mitarbeiter und dann los geht's in kurzer Zeit einsatzbereit. Und bei F 13, also der Open Source L\u00f6sung, da k\u00f6nnte ich tats\u00e4chlich im Hintergrund am Sprachmodell noch mal etwas drehen und schrauben. Da muss ich sogar am Sprachmodell drehen und schrauben. Bei diesen L\u00f6sungen, da ist das Sprachmodell eben nicht dabei, sondern es ist vorbereitet, dass ich 'n Sprachmodell einbinde. Und dann fange ich an und lade mir also diese Software runter, installier die bei mir. Das ist, wie gesagt, ganz normaler IT Technik. Das muss dann irgendwo laufen in irgendeinem sicheren Rechenzentrum und so weiter. Dann muss ich wissen, welche Klasse von Daten ich verarbeite. VSNFT zum Beispiel, Verschlusssache nur f\u00fcr Dienstgebrauch, also die leichteste Geheimhaltungsstufe. Wenn ich so was verarbeiten m\u00f6chte oder personenbezogene Daten, dann muss ich nat\u00fcrlich da bei der Verarbeitung drauf achten. So, das ist die eine Seite. Und dann kommt die Auswahl, welches Sprachmodell binde ich an? Wo l\u00e4uft das? L\u00e4uft das bei mir auch im Rechenzentrum? Dann brauch ich ziemlich viel Hardware, also diese ber\u00fchmten Grafikkarten. Oder miete ich mir das auch? Binde ich mich irgendwo an? Dann kostet mich das laufende Kosten. Was kostet das \u00fcberhaupt? Bis zu diesen sehr interessanten Modellen, dass man sagt, okay, am Arbeitsplatz sitz ich sitzt immer der gleiche Mensch, hat die gleiche Oberfl\u00e4che. Aber je nachdem, was f\u00fcr Daten eingegeben werden, wird es mal von dem einen Modell beantwortet, n\u00e4mlich im preiswerten \u00f6ffentlichen Modell, wo auch keine wo man ruhig sensible Daten hinschicken kann. Wenn ich jetzt aber f\u00fcr eine andere Anwendung speziellere Daten habe, dann wird es in ein eigenes Rechenzentrum geroutet und dort vertraulich behandelt. Ich k\u00f6nnte mir vorstellen, wenn wir jetzt \u00fcber die \u00f6ffentliche Verwaltung sprechen, dass unterm Strich auch die Kosten ganz interessant sind. Wie ist es denn bei den beiden Wegen, die ihr nur skizziert habt? Ne, der eine Weg, ich hab sozusagen ein Modell, das fertig auf den Servern liegt, das noch mal ein bisschen umdesignt wird, aber dann ist es schon da und das andere Open Source, ich kann's mir runterladen, muss es aber komplett neu entwickeln. Was ist der preiswertere Weg? Na, das kann man so Also \u00fcber Preise spricht da keiner und das kann man Das ist wirklich sehr schwierig, vor allen Dingen auch, weil das ja Kontingente sind und so weiter. Sondern es ist so eher sozusagen diese Was interessant ist, sind die verschiedenen Mechanismen, die man da drin hat. Also zum Beispiel, wenn man f\u00fcr die Bundesverwaltung Das wird \u00fcber das Projekt zum Beispiel Keepitz gemacht und dort alle \u00c4mter, alle Beh\u00f6rden, die dort sozusagen einsteigen, die teilen sich 'n Hardwarepool in dem Rechenzentrum des des Bundes. Und das ist nat\u00fcrlich eine interessante Idee, wenn man sagt, okay, wir haben mal dann Spitzen und die anderen haben woanders Spitzen. Das hei\u00dft, man steigt also ein mit seinem Bedarf, aber kann dann noch zum Beispiel Spitzen durch eine gemeinsame Verarbeitung abfedern. Oder aber man sagt, okay, ich such mir jetzt das allerbilligste Sprachmodell raus. Es geht \u00fcbrigens so weit, ich wei\u00df nicht, ob Du das wei\u00dft, Mike, dass eine Stadt durchaus sagt, ach, wir k\u00f6nnen auch 'n chinesisches Sprachmodell nehmen. Das blenden lassen wir bei uns im Keller laufen. Und da geht ja nix rein und nix raus, dann nehmen wir dieses chinesische Modell und ist auch sicher f\u00fcr diesen Fall, nicht. Und dann gibt's wieder andere, Polizei Baden W\u00fcrttemberg, die sagt, ja, aber das ist ja auch gef\u00e4hrlich. Wir sind ja abh\u00e4ngig von solchen von solcher IT, gar nicht mal so sehr vom Sprach und der aber von der IT. Wir wollen diese IT Entwicklung nutzen, \u00fcberhaupt in die Cloud zu gehen, also nicht mehr im lokalen Rechenzentrum im eigenen Keller zu sein, sondern zu sagen, wir gehen jetzt in eine sichere Cloud, wo auch 'n anderer Anbieter vielleicht in Konkurrenz sein kann oder wo ich eine Back-up und eine Redundanz habe. Und in diesem Umfeld, in diesem riesengro\u00dfen Umfeld muss ich halt mich orientieren, was f\u00fcr mich und meine Anwendung am besten ist. F\u00fcr die Kosten sind da nat\u00fcrlich unendlich viele Stellgr\u00f6\u00dfen drin, wie wir Ja. Wie Jens ja grade auch schon beschrieben hat. Und ich denke, der gr\u00f6\u00dfte die gr\u00f6\u00dfte oder der gr\u00f6\u00dfte entscheidende Faktor f\u00fcr die Kosten ist tats\u00e4chlich, was hab ich da f\u00fcr eine Anwendung? Ja. Wenn ich damit noch eine Cloud Infrastruktur irgendwo nutzen kann, dann ist es im Zweifel immer deutlich billiger, als wenn ich im gesch\u00fctzten Rechenzentrum hochsensible Daten verarbeite. Und dann geht's noch weiter, dass man wirklich sagt, okay, das waren jetzt die Kosten, aber es h\u00e4ngt ja mit der Funktion zusammen. Also, dass ich die Sprachmodelle, die sind ja auch sehr unterschiedlich gro\u00df. Und dann ist ja Ich muss ja nicht immer das allergr\u00f6\u00dfte Sprachmodell nutzen, immer wieder Kleckerkramfragen zu beantworten. So. Daf\u00fcr gibt's nat\u00fcrlich Antworten von den Sprachmodellherstellern, von den Anbietern und also ganz verschiedene Ans\u00e4tze, wie das gemacht wird. Und von den Anbietern selbst ist es dann so, dass zum Beispiel in der Preisliste drinsteht, was kosten Input Tokens? Also Token ist so die kleinste Einheit bei Sprachmodellen, also vergleichbar mit Silben oder W\u00f6rtern. Was kosten Input Tokens? Nat\u00fcrlich immer im Millionenbereich. Und was kosten Output Tokens? Und das ist durchaus unterschiedlich. Was kostet die Speicherung? Vielleicht eine Grundgeb\u00fchr Ja. Und so weiter. Und da muss man dann wirklich sagen, welche Anwendung habe ich? Schicke ich eher Text hin? Krieg ich eher Text zur\u00fcck In meinem Mix ist die kann ich 'n einfaches Sprachmodell nutzen, was billiger ist? Oder muss ich was Komplexes haben? Wenn wir jetzt mal so von den Kosten weggehen, Jens, ich hab dich aber trotzdem jetzt auch so verstanden, dass es keinen K\u00f6nigsweg gibt in der Verwaltung, sondern auch hier gilt so der Lieblingsspruch 1 jeden Rechtsanwalts. Es kommt darauf an, ne, n\u00e4mlich wof\u00fcr brauch ich da Sprachmodell \u00fcberhaupt? Mike, w\u00fcrdest Du's \u00e4hnlich sehen? Ja, absolut. Voll und ganz, das ist eigentlich mein Lieblingsspruch. Ich bin irritiert, dass Du den bringst. Nein, wir haben's ja schon skizziert, also es kommt wirklich ganz genau darauf an, einerseits, welche Daten verwende ich, welche Daten verarbeite ich, andererseits, was ist die Anwendung, was muss will ich damit erreichen? Und danach orientiert sich dann die die Architektur und dann irgendwann auch die Kosten. Schauen wir uns zum Schluss mal Strategien f\u00fcr die Vernetzung an. Warum f\u00e4llt's am Ende so schwer dennoch, sich auf zumindest einen Weg zu einigen? Denn ich k\u00f6nnte mir vorstellen, dass wenn man, selbst wenn man verschiedene Anspr\u00fcche hat, dass es trotzdem ja doch eigentlich mehr Synergien schafft, wenn man gemeinsam an einem Strang zieht und sich erst mal auf ein Grundmodell einigt und das dann an verschiedene Stellen ausspielt. Wie seht ihr hier die M\u00f6glichkeiten noch zu 1 engeren Kooperation in Zukunft? Ich denke, der Weg ist vorgezeichnet und da ist durchaus auch Interesse dran. Es ist traditionell im F\u00f6deralismus in Deutschland nicht so, dass man sagt, okay, wir haben jetzt eine L\u00f6sung, die f\u00fcr alle funktioniert, aber man kann schon sagen, okay, wir konzentrieren uns 'n bisschen auf 'n paar L\u00f6sungen, die jetzt auch sozusagen dieses weite Feld, was wir aufgemacht haben, son bisschen abdecken, vielleicht dort auch eine gewisse Konvergenz stattfindet, dass also zum Beispiel Anwendungen, die jetzt nur ein Sprachmodell haben oder die vorher noch nicht diese das den Bedarf gehabt haben, dass die dann zum Beispiel weitere Sprachmodelle anbinden auf Es ist ja auch 'n Entwicklungseinfeld, was sich jetzt auch rasend schnell au\u00dferhalb der Verwaltung weiterentwickelt. Und ja, und da sehen wir eben 2 Schnittstellen, nat\u00fcrliche Schnittstellen in Anf\u00fchrungsstrichen, die sich anbieten und wo auch demn\u00e4chst Also wo auch die 1. Zusammenarbeit schon funktioniert. Und das ist das 1. Ist eben das von mir schon erw\u00e4hnte \u00fcberhaupt 'n Sprachmodell anzubinden mit den verschiedenen Preismodellen, mit den verschiedenen F\u00e4higkeiten. Das ist eine nat\u00fcrliche Schnittstelle und eine andere Schnittstelle ist aus 'ner technischen Perspektive die die KI Anwendung, also der innere Bereich sozusagen. Will ich jetzt chatten? Also nicht die grafische Oberfl\u00e4che, sondern sozusagen da drin die Frage, ich m\u00f6chte chatten oder ich m\u00f6chte Daten zusammenfassen und so weiter. Und f\u00fcr solche KI Anwendungen, die jetzt den Kern ausmacht, dort muss man auch ein kleines, wie soll ich sagen, kleines Ger\u00fcst stricken, eine Orchestrierung, wie diese verschiedenen IT Komponenten nacheinander benutzt werden sollen. Also zum Beispiel greife auf die auf eine Datenbank zu, wo die Parlamentsdaten sind, 'n Prompt zu schreiben, was damit passieren soll und wieder auszugeben, vielleicht Filterungen und so weiter. Und das diese dieser engere Kreis, dieser KI Anwendung, die wird man demn\u00e4chst auch austauschen k\u00f6nnen zwischen diesen verschiedenen L\u00f6sungen. Und die l\u00e4sst sich aus technischer Perspektive auch relativ einfach isolieren, weil dann doch trotz einiger Varianten diese Verwaltungs KI doch relativ \u00e4hnlich aufgebaut ist jeweils. Jetzt taucht ja auch einen Begriff in eurer Vorstudie auf, n\u00e4mlich dir der Referenzarchitektur. So, ich stell mir das jetzt son bisschen vor wie son Legobaukasten und jede Verwaltung pickt sich so die Legosteine raus, ne, bestimmte Anfragen, bestimmte Auswertung und baut sich ein System zusammen. Maik, geht das so einfach, wie ich mir das grade vorstelle oder ist das dann doch 'n bisschen komplexer? Das ist 1 der Lieblingspassagen in der Studie von mir. Hinten die Ursprungsmodelle, die die einzelnen L\u00f6sungen dann aufgebaut haben. Wie unterschiedlich, was f\u00fcr 'n breites Spektrum man da sieht. Ist ja auch eine Leistung dieser Studie, das dann halt zusammenzuf\u00fchren und einen Vorschlag zu machen, wie so eine Rahmengrob Architektur aussehen k\u00f6nnte. Und wenn man die hat, dann und eine gemeinsame Sprache hat, dann kann man genau da hingehen und zu so einem Legobaukasten kommen. Und da hat Jens ja auch schon die ersten ersten Schritte oder die die absehbaren Schritte, muss man ja sagen, weil auch das ist 'n wunderbares Ergebnis dieser Studie. Alle Vorhaben denken ja in irgendeiner Form die Weiterverwendung immer mit. Also ob sie dann ihre Plattform \u00f6ffnen f\u00fcr immer breitere Gruppen oder ob sie's Open Source stellen oder irgend eine Mischung dazwischen. Also das ist schon schon integraler Bestandteil von diesen Vorhaben, das immer mitzudenken. Und halt sicherlich ein K\u00f6nigsweg ist genau diese Legobausteine dann aus so austauschbar zu machen, wie es eben geht und dann halt auch davon zu profitieren. Und dann kann ich halt den Microservice, ist das richtig? Ja. Den Microservice aus Hessen nehmen und in Baden W\u00fcrttemberg einsetzen oder in Nordrhein Westfalen oder so und so. Genau und ich m\u00f6chte noch mal den Bogen etwas gr\u00f6\u00dfer ziehen und zwar, wir haben ja den Deutschland Stack. Das ist ja eine gro\u00dfe Aktivit\u00e4t, die IT in Deutschland eben souver\u00e4ner aufzustellen, Konvergenz herzustellen zwischen L\u00f6sungen und dort, das ist sozusagen der gro\u00dfe Legobaukasten, den Du gerade angesprochen hast. Dort gibt's also zum Beispiel oder wird es geben, dass dort zum Beispiel Datenbanken benannt sind als IT Baustein, ne, eine Datenbank. Und dann wird man nat\u00fcrlicherweise sagen, okay, meine KI Anwendung, die baue ich aus diesen Bausteinen, die im Deutschland Stack sind zusammen. Und dann sage ich okay und andererseits kann ich dann wieder sagen, ja, aber jetzt habe ich eine sch\u00f6ne funktionierende KI Anwendung, die eigentlich ganz gut funktioniert f\u00fcr diesen und jeden Zweck, die kann ich ja wieder dem Deutschland Stack als Gesamtes zur Verf\u00fcgung stellen und sagen, okay, wenn jetzt jemand anders was zusammenbasteln will, hier hast Du schon mal 90 Prozent oder so was und Du musst jetzt nur noch 'n paar kleinere \u00c4nderungen machen. Und das ist so die Idee, dass sich sone Idee nat\u00fcrlich auch noch mal, also eine moderne IT L\u00f6sung, die cloudbasiert ist, die auch viel auf Open Source Komponenten besteht, die modular immer aufgebaut ist, auf Microservices beruht und offenen und Schnittstellen, dass die nat\u00fcrlich in sonem Stack eingeordnet werden kann und dann wirklich auch einl\u00e4dt dazu, Teile oder dies ganze System zu nutzen, weiterzuentwickeln. Und das klingt ja so, als w\u00fcrde das auch wirklich Synergien schaffen. Das schafft dann echte Synergien, weil da nat\u00fcrlich immer hinter steckt. Kommen wir wieder zur\u00fcck zu diesen Fragen von IT Sicherheit, konform ins Datenschutz und so weiter. Diese ganzen Compliance Themen und die sind wirklich superaufwendig, dass ich da mal jemanden hinsetze und Also das kann man heute im Studium lernen oder das wissen. Da kriegt man IT Leute, die sone L\u00f6sung zusammenbauen k\u00f6nnen. Das ist kein Thema, aber die wirklich fachlich und sachgerecht wirklich einzusetzen, datenschutzkonform in der Verwaltung, da organisatorisch das aufzubauen, da steckt also sozusagen die Arbeit drin. Und und das wird nat\u00fcrlich einfacher, wenn ich zusammenarbeite und wenn ich sage, okay, das muss ich mir nicht von Grund auf ausdenken, sondern irgendjemand hat schon eine Datenschekliste gemacht, die kann ich jetzt auch einfach abarbeiten oder die kriege ich schon dazu zu meiner L\u00f6sung, die ich da hole. Und das ist gar nicht so sehr die Technik Technik, die ich da haben will, sondern es ist vielleicht, weil das sowieso Open Source Projekte sind, sondern das ist vielleicht eher, dass jemand schon sich drum Gedanken gemacht hat, wie man das in diesem konkreten Kontext der Verwaltung diese Open Source Software einsetzen kann. Und das ist der Riesenvorteil. Ich w\u00fcrde mit euch gern zum Schluss noch einen Blick in die Zukunft werfen. KI L\u00f6sungen werden grad \u00fcberall diskutiert in jeder Branche, in jedem Zusammenhang und nat\u00fcrlich eben auch in der Verwaltung. Wenn wir jetzt mal so 10 Jahre in die Zukunft schauen, welche Rolle wird KI, werden KI Tools in der Verwaltung spielen? Wird das ein Tool von vielen anderen oder eine Anwendung auch von vielen anderen sein oder wird sie wirklich zentral? Mike, Du bist Trendforscher und Zukunftsforscher, Du darfst zuerst antworten. Das hab ich bef\u00fcrchtet. Bei meinem Pr\u00e4sentation zu KI behaupte ich tats\u00e4chlich, dass es dieser Halbzyklen gibt und dass man dann immer wieder zu dem Punkt kommt, wo es dann eine normale Anwendung wird. Das l\u00e4sst sich ja in der Vergangenheit sehr sch\u00f6n beobachten. Es wird sicherlich auch ein St\u00fcck weit so sein. Ich denke nur, dass in der aktuellen Entwicklung aus ganz verschiedenen Gr\u00fcnden die Bedeutung noch mal grade f\u00fcr die Verwaltung gr\u00f6\u00dfer ist. 1 der zentralen Punkte ist, oder wie Jens ganz am Anfang gesagt, dass diese Tools mit Text umgehen k\u00f6nnen. Das das konnte KI immer schon irgendwie, aber jetzt so, dass man sich verstanden f\u00fchlt und dass man auch 'n echten Mehrwert daraus generieren kann, wenn man neue Texte in einfacher Sprache oder in was auch immer transformiert oder neu erzeugen l\u00e4sst. Und ich glaube, das ist dieser dieser andere Zugang und der andere Umgang mit den Tools, der die Verarbeitung in der Verwaltung deutlich erleichtert. Das ist, glaub ich, wirklich 'n Asset, das bleiben wird und das auch einiges ver\u00e4ndern wird in der Verwaltung. Wobei man auch dazu sagen muss, zumindest bei der aktuellen Anwendung von Sprachmodellen und auch bei dem, solange Halluzinationen und solche Probleme bleiben, kann man das ja nicht so also bescheiden damit schreiben zu lassen, k\u00f6nnte 'n bisschen riskant sein. Ich kann Sie dann vielleicht in einfache Sprache umformulieren lassen. Aber immer da, wo ich dann halt eben rechtssichere und wirklich korrekte Aussagen brauche, sind sie vermutlich mal absehbar nicht zu gebrauchen. Und deswegen ist dieser Bereich der der gro\u00dfen Sprachmodelle, wo wir im Moment grade dr\u00fcber reden, wer wei\u00df, wor\u00fcber wir in 10 Jahren reden, aber wo wir im Moment grade dr\u00fcber reden, der Anwendungsbereich schon eingeschr\u00e4nkt und in erster Linie auch Fragen des Zugangs. Dahinter gibt es ganz viele andere Automatisierungs- und auch KI Fragen, die man noch l\u00f6sen k\u00f6nnte, wenn man an automatisierte oder proaktive Verwaltungsverfahren denkt, die dann halb bis ganz automatisiert durchlaufen. Aber da sind wir dann ganz weit weg von Sprachmodellen. Jens, die Zukunft der Sprachmodelle, was meinst Du? Ja, da m\u00f6chte ich gleich anschlie\u00dfen und wir sind nicht so weit weg, denke ich, weil in der Verwaltung von Sprachmodellen, weil da kann man ja einen kleinen cleveren Zwischenschritt machen und das w\u00e4re auch mein Thema, was in 10 Jahren passiert in der Verwaltung. Also der 1. Teil ist klar, wir reden \u00fcber Sprachverarbeitung in Sprache formulieren Und was ich jetzt interessant finde, ist, ich komme aus dem Bereich, hab mir Low Code Systeme angeguckt, also in denen Nutzer, die nicht so viel Programmier- und Programmiererfahrung haben oder gar keine Programmiererfahrung haben, dass die also sozusagen Verwaltungsverfahren aufsetzen k\u00f6nnen. Und an dieser Stelle kann ich also zum Beispiel schon KI einsetzen, wie man sie auch zum Programmieren von Also wie Programmierer auch Sprachmodelle einsetzen, Software zu schreiben. Und was ich spannend finde jetzt in diesem in diesem Zusammenhang ist, dass man jetzt von sozusagen von Flie\u00dftext, von gesprochener Sprache sozusagen, dass man zu mehr formalisierten Sachen kommt und dass zum Beispiel ein Gesetz in einen Entscheidungsbaum umgesetzt wird. Das kann man auf der reinen Sprachebene machen. Dann muss man nat\u00fcrlich gucken und das ist Hat ja Mike zurecht gesagt Man muss dann nat\u00fcrlich gucken, ob das richtig ist. Und aber hier besteht die gro\u00dfe Chance, dass man sozusagen einmal ein Gesetz in einen Entscheidungsbaum umsetzt. Den kann man pr\u00fcfen, den kann man archivieren, dem kann man 'n Datum geben und sagen, an dem und ab dem und dem Zeitpunkt haben wir diesen Entscheidungsbaum angesetzt eingesetzt. Den haben jetzt nicht mehr Menschen zusammengebastelt, sondern den hat eine KI zusammengebastelt. Menschen haben's gepr\u00fcft und ab da kann man wieder die klassischen regelbasierten Systeme einsetzen und sagen, okay, nach diesem Entscheidungsbaum ist 100 Prozent sicher, dass so und so viel Steuern gezahlt werden, ob's Wohngeld gibt oder was wei\u00df ich. Und hier kann man dann die automatisierten Verfahren wieder einsetzen. Und das Tolle ist halt dieses, dass man Sprachmodelle eben einsetzen kann, auch formalisierte Sprache, die L\u00fccke zwischen Computer und Mensch noch etwas zu schlie\u00dfen und sozusagen Menschen ein Werkzeug an die Hand zu geben, Computer leistungsf\u00e4higer zu programmieren. V\u00f6llig d'accord, nur dann brauche ich halt wieder f\u00fcr die Automatisierung wohl definierte Daten, funktionierende Register, automatisch kommunizierende und deswegen mein etwas zur\u00fcckhaltende Antwort mit den 10 Jahren. Also es liegt gar nicht so sehr im Bereich der KI und in in der technischen Umsetzung, da gibt es wunderbare neue M\u00f6glichkeiten, aber in der in den Hausaufgaben, in den Grundlagen, da k\u00f6nnte es noch schwierig werden oder schwierig bleiben. Wie aber Menschen und Verwaltungen doch ganz gut auch mal zusammenarbeiten k\u00f6nnen und ja vielleicht auch gemeinsam in Vorleistung gehen k\u00f6nnen, damit's funktioniert mit der KI, das haben wir heute erfahren in Restart digital, dem Podcast des Kompetenzzentrums \u00f6ffentlicher IT. Sch\u00f6nen Dank an Jens Tiemann und Doktor Mike Weber. Sch\u00f6n, dass ihr hier wart. Danke dir. Danke. Falls euch der Podcast gefallen hat, folgt uns kostenfrei auf Spotify, Apple Podcasts und vielen weiteren Apps. Und schreibt uns gern noch eine Bewertung, wenn ihr denn m\u00f6gt. Tsch\u00fcs und bis bald. 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Die \u00f6ffentliche Verwaltung setzt zunehmend auf KI Tools. Chat Bots k\u00f6nnen zum Beispiel Anfragen von B\u00fcrger*innen rund die Uhr beantworten. Das entlastet einerseits die Servicest\u00e4llen und verk\u00fcrzt die Wartezeiten. Auf der anderen Seite aber unterst\u00fctzt die KI Mitarbeitende in der Verwaltung ganz direkt.\n\nSie kann zum Beispiel gro\u00dfe Mengen unstrukturierter Daten wie Textdokumente, Gesetze und Berichte effizient verarbeiten. Was allerdings 'n bisschen weniger effizient ist, viele Beh\u00f6rden basteln an ihre eigenen KI L\u00f6sung. Ist das wirklich n\u00f6tig? Wie kann die Verwaltung zusammenarbeiten, Anwendungen miteinander zu teilen? Dazu hat das Kompetenzzentrum \u00f6ffentliche IT k\u00fcrzlich eine Vorstudie vorgestellt.\n\nDie Ergebnisse wollen wir uns in dieser Podcastfolge anschauen. Herzlich willkommen beim \u00f6FIT Podcast restart digital, eine Produktion des Fraunhofer Instituts f\u00fcr offene Kommunikationssysteme. Ich bin Philipp 1 und ich begr\u00fc\u00dfe meine beiden Co Hosts. Das ist zum einen Jens Tiemann. Er befasst sich mit den technischen Grundlagen der Digitalisierung.\n\nSchwerpunkte seiner Arbeit liegen im Bereich Internet, Vernetzung und neue Technologien. Herzlich willkommen Jens.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja hallo.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und mit dabei Doktor Mike Weber. Er ist Trendforscher und stellvertretender Leiter des \u00dcft, auch unser Stammgast hier im Studio. Hallo Mike.\n\nSpeaker 2: Hallo Philipp.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, schauen wir zun\u00e4chst mal, was KI Bots in den Beh\u00f6rden so k\u00f6nnen. L l Moin, der Name klingt vielleicht 'n bisschen albern, aber die Anwendung der Hamburger Verwaltung, die hat's in sich. Ja, was kann die jetzt?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, so typischerweise, also wir reden ja, wie Du eben schon erz\u00e4hlt hast, wir reden \u00fcber die Anwendung von Sprachmodellen in der \u00f6ffentlichen Verwaltung. Und Verwaltung arbeiten nat\u00fcrlich viel mit Sprache, dass dort Texte verarbeitet werden, dass das auf Texten basiert, zum Beispiel meinetwegen Koalitionsvertr\u00e4gen, aber auch Antr\u00e4ge, die reinkommen. Und solche Sprachmodelle oder solche Anwendungen k\u00f6nnen dann Texte zusammenfassen, Texte umformulieren, zum Beispiel auch in einfacher Sprache oder man kann eben aus Stichworten Texte formulieren lassen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was sind da so ganz konkrete Anwendungsfelder jetzt in der Hamburger Verwaltung?\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh, in der Hamburger Verwaltung.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also welche Texte m\u00fcssen die zusammen was machen lassen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also in Hamburg wei\u00df ich das jetzt gerade nicht. In eine typische Anwendung ist, dass der Grundstock an Ver\u00f6ffentlichung, Pressemeldungen und so weiter, Regierungserkl\u00e4rung und so was ist dort verf\u00fcgbar, kann recherchiert werden und kann dementsprechend, wenn zum Beispiel Anfragen kommen oder so was, kann das effizient verarbeitet werden und dann kann man muss man also nicht selber in diesem Wust an Daten suchen, sondern kann sagen, okay, ich m\u00f6chte zu dieser Frage etwas beantworten. Eine kleine Anfrage beispielsweise im Parlament und dann sagt man, okay, welche Grundlagen gibt's daf\u00fcr? Was stand in der Regierungserkl\u00e4rung? Und dann wird das\n\nSpeaker 0: zusammengefasst. Ja, also Texte auswerten, Texte neu zusammenfassen auch wieder aus den ausgewerteten, das klingt auch so, als w\u00e4r das einfach wirklich effizienter, ne? Als das, was die Verwaltungsmitarbeitenden vorher sonst h\u00e4ndisch machen mussten.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, es ist einfach ein sehr potentes Werkzeug, ne? Die Idee muss man nat\u00fcrlich selber mitbringen und das Denken kommt nat\u00fcrlich weiter von den Verwaltungsmitarbeitenden, aber dann das auszuformulieren oder nochmal umzuformulieren, weil zum Beispiel Texte aus der Verwaltung typischerweise in 'nem gewissen Stil B\u00fcrgerinnen und B\u00fcrger erwarten. Da hilft das nat\u00fcrlich sehr weiter. Das hei\u00dft, da Das geht dort nicht automatische Entscheidungen oder so was, sondern es geht wirklich Textarbeit, Formulierungen, in Dokumenten suchen, recherchieren, \u00fcbersetzen, solche Fragen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nun kann genau das nat\u00fcrlich auch Also Texte zusammenfassen, Inhalte generieren, ne, recherchieren. Das k\u00f6nnen ja auch alles g\u00e4ngige Tools wie ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity, wie sie alle hei\u00dfen. Mike, warum brauchen Beh\u00f6rden eigene Tools daf\u00fcr?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das kommt immer ganz auf den Anwendungsfall an. Also es gibt sicherlich auch Anwendungsf\u00e4lle, f\u00fcr die Weihnachtskarte zum Beispiel kann ich auch problemlos Chat GPT benutzen und da gibt's keine keine Beschr\u00e4nkung. Schwierig wird es dann, wenn ich sensible Daten verwende nat\u00fcrlich. Also da gibt es ja auch unterschiedliche Abschubungen, aber sp\u00e4testens, wenn es in in auch nur die in den Verdacht geriert, dass es personenbezogenen Daten geht. In dem Moment brauch ich nat\u00fcrlich 'n gesch\u00fctzten Raum und kann diese Daten nicht irgendwo in die Welt hinauspusten.\n\nSicherheitsaspekte betroffen sind, nat\u00fcrlich noch viel, viel mehr. 'N weiterer Aspekt ist nat\u00fcrlich auch, dass je intensiver man diese Tools nutzt und das Spektrum ist daher auch enorm, selbst beim bei bei der Ideenfindung gibt es ja mittlerweile Ans\u00e4tze, Chatbots dazu zu benutzen, mit denen gemeinsam zu brainstormen und dann weiterzukommen. Je intensiver ich die nutze und je mehr Funktionen sie erf\u00fcllen, desto abh\u00e4ngiger bin ich nat\u00fcrlich auch davon und desto wichtiger ist es, dass ich die wesentlichen Komponenten selbst in der Hand habe und selbst bestimmen kann. Stichwort digitale Souver\u00e4nit\u00e4t, aber das Thema hatten wir ja schon.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also Datenschutz spielt da eine Rolle, Jens?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja und noch mal auf deine Frage zur\u00fcckzukommen. Wenn ich da jetzt mal technischer reingehen darf, dahinter steckt denn tats\u00e4chlich eventuell, was wir als ChatGPT kennen, dass ich jetzt also sozusagen 'n bisschen technisch reingucke, dann sind da 2 gro\u00dfe Bl\u00f6cke drin. Und das eine ist eine normale IT Anwendung in weiten Sinne, also zum Beispiel auch eine Datenbankabfrage, eine grafische Oberfl\u00e4che, diese ganzen Fragen aus 'ner Verwaltungs IT, wo nat\u00fcrlich das, was Mike sagte, eine Rolle spielt. Ist das sicher, ist das zuverl\u00e4ssig und so weiter. Und der andere Block, der wird im Moment noch, wie man aus den Diskussionen Sprache und Sprachmodelle und KI in Europa kennt, der andere Block sind halt gr\u00f6\u00dftenteils amerikanische Sprachmodelle.\n\nMan hofft jetzt, dass man Misstrauen europ\u00e4isches Modell hat. Es gibt chinesische Modelle. Das hei\u00dft, dieser Block der Sprachmodelle, der ist eigentlich immer der gleiche oder es kommt 'n kleiner Es gibt einen kleinen Stamm von diesen Sprachmodellen, die immer wieder benutzt werden. Und den m\u00f6chte man dann nat\u00fcrlich wieder, wie Mike gesagt hatte, nicht jetzt \u00fcbers Internet und offen und v\u00f6llig egal, wo das l\u00e4uft, sondern den m\u00f6chte man nat\u00fcrlich auch unter Kontrolle haben, Zusicherungen haben, dass das vertraulich behandelt wird, die Daten, die man r\u00fcber gibt und so weiter.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also das noch mal so klarzuziehen, es gibt ja einmal die Anwendung, l l 9 ist eine, ne? Genau. Und dann gibt's aber noch dahinterliegende Sprachmodell, das eben sowas wie GPT-4 von OpenAI, das kennen viele von ChatGPT. So, das hei\u00dft, die spielen aber hier auch zusammen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Richtig, genau. Also die die Anwendung selber ist grafische Oberfl\u00e4che, handelt die Anmeldung, dass man sich das nur befugter auf diese Anwendung zugreifen k\u00f6nnen, speichern vielleicht was auch zum Beispiel f\u00fcr die Dokumentation und so weiter. Und das unterscheidet sich jetzt nicht von 1 Standardverwaltungssoftware oder anderen Software. Der gro\u00dfe Funktionsblock, der jetzt hier neu ist und was das sozusagen spannend macht, weil das eine Kombination ist, ist halt ein gro\u00dfer Funktionsblock ist dieses Sprachmodell, was also dann angesprochen wird, was Ergebnisse zur\u00fcckliefert. Und da ist dann die Frage, wo l\u00e4uft es?\n\nWelches Modell ist es? Was kann ich davon erwarten? Was kostet das? Und so weiter. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nun sagt ja aber Maike gerade, ob Datenschutz spielt auch eine Rolle, also es geht ja auch sensible Daten von B\u00fcrger*innen. Wenn jetzt aber das Sprachmodell hinter LL Moun in ein amerikanisches, n\u00e4mlich GPT4 ist, ne, also ist da nicht der Datenschutz ohnehin son bisschen kritisch auch bei diesen Eigenentwicklungen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nein, es gibt da unterschiedliche Abstufungen, sag ich mal, wie man dann Datenschutzaspekte ber\u00fccksichtigen kann. Das Beste in der Hinsicht ist sicherlich, wenn das Modell selbst, 'n Umsourcen Modell lokal l\u00e4uft Und dann bleibt es auf den eigenen Servern Servern und hat wieder alle Aspekte selbst in der Hand und kann die entsprechend gestalten. Und es gibt auch Zwischenschritte dabei, dass man halt \u00fcber die Benutzerschnittstelle sicherstellt, dass keine individualisierbaren Daten weitergegeben werden. Also dass man keine Profilbildung von einzelnen Nutzenden einrichten kann, wie das ja bei, wenn ich das offen verwende und mich registriere da, dann w\u00e4re das ja eine M\u00f6glichkeit. Und wenn man dann noch 'n bisschen in die Schulung investiert und daf\u00fcr sorgt, dass keine direkten Personendaten eingegeben werden, dann kann man relativ sicher sein, dass man f\u00fcr eher unkritische Anwendungen auch mit soner einfachen Oberfl\u00e4che schon sehr viel an diesem Problem adressieren kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Bleiben wir noch mal kurz bei L. M. 9. Das greift ja bereits auf die Parlamentsdatenbank von der Hamburger B\u00fcrgerschaft zur\u00fcck, aber eben noch sehr eingeschr\u00e4nkt. Wann kann die Anwendung wirklich so das gesamte Parlamentswissen anzapfen und das ganze Beh\u00f6rdenwissen vor allem?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das theoretisch geht es jetzt schon. Also von der das ist dann eine organisatorische Frage, wie stelle ich diese Daten bereit? Vielleicht machen wir es eine 1 Nummer kleiner. Die Frage ist ja, ob diese Sprachmodelle, also was wir ja auch selber im Alltag kennen, ob zum Beispiel dieses Sprachmodell jetzt noch mal selber im im Web recherchiert und selber noch mal sucht im offenen Web, Ergebnisse kriegt und die f\u00fcr mich zusammenfasst. Also das ist ja, was wir ja zum Beispiel bei der Google Suche, dieses kleine KI Result, was da oben kommt, also ne.\n\nDas ist ja heutzutage dann halt \u00fcblich, dass so das miteinander kombiniert wird. Oder und das ist der andere gro\u00dfe Zweig, dass man sogenannte RAG Systeme, dass man dem einen speziellen Datensatz gibt, zum Beispiel interne Akten und so weiter und dann dieses Sprachmodell mit seinem gro\u00dfen, ich sag mal, Weltwissen in Anf\u00fchrungsstrichen sprechen kann mit einem, also die Frage versteht, eine Antwort formulieren kann, aber die Inhalte nur aus diesem Dokumentensatz kommen und dementsprechend dort dieses gro\u00dfe Problem der Halluzinationen, die wir ja beim KI kennen, dass man das halt reduziert.\n\nSpeaker 0: Sprechen wir mal \u00fcber die Vorstudie, die ihr ja sozusagen angesto\u00dfen habt. Da geht's ja die Kooperation bei der Entwicklung solcher KI Tools. Viele Beh\u00f6rden, die kochen ihr eigenes S\u00fcppchen und entwickeln Tools unabh\u00e4ngig voneinander. Bei L. Moin, da ist das anders.\n\nDie Frei- und Hansestadt Hamburg, die bietet auch anderen Verwaltungen an, den KI Assistenten zu nutzen. Wie genau funktioniert dieses Modell?\n\nSpeaker 1: Dass Verwaltung gerne ihr eigenes S\u00fcppchen kochen, da bin ich v\u00f6llig einverstanden, das passiert oft. Ich glaube hier an dieser Stelle aber ist der Punkt, dass KI so ein neues Thema ist, dass nat\u00fcrlich alle erst mal ausprobieren wollen, was geht da eigentlich? Und wenn man sich dann und die auch diese Vorteile nutzen m\u00f6chte und wenn man da warten w\u00fcrde und geruhsam erst mal sagt, was wollen wir eigentlich haben? Wie einigen wir uns und so weiter? Das w\u00e4re hier, glaube ich, nicht m\u00f6glich gewesen angesichts der rasant der Entwicklung, die wir ja bis ins Private sp\u00fcren, die Nutzung von Chatmodellen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wenn ich da noch ganz kurz einen draufsetzen darf, es ist doch eigentlich 'n sehr positives Zeichen, dass die Verwaltung sich so schnell bewegt in diesem Umfeld und dass es wirklich versucht, diese Chancen zu nutzen. Also erst mal ist es sehr positiv, dass so viel Aktivit\u00e4t vorherrscht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Gut, aber dann stellt man nat\u00fcrlich fest, Du hattest diese verschiedenen Sachen, BR GPT in Berlin oder All Gute oder LL Moin. Es war eine der ersten Handlungsempfehlungen, die mir einfiel, w\u00e4re keine Sprachspiele mehr mit mit KI. Dass man also sagt, okay, da da sind die Anwendungen doch eigentlich gar nicht so unterschiedlich, sondern es ist immer dieses Formulieren von Texten, \u00dcbersetzen und so weiter. Und da kann man sich nat\u00fcrlich jetzt schon \u00fcberlegen, wie kann man da zusammenarbeiten? Was kann man da gemeinsam machen?\n\nSpeaker 0: Und genau das hat Hamburg ja gemacht\n\nSpeaker 1: Also genau das hat Hamburg im neuen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das wird eben zur Verf\u00fcgung gestellt, auch f\u00fcr andere Verwaltungen. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das ist\n\nSpeaker 0: ja so ein Weg, den ihr auch beschreibt, die die Verwaltung gehen k\u00f6nnen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Richtig und da muss man jetzt noch den Dienstleister dazu nehmen. Also das L9 ist aufgebaut eben auf Initiative von Hamburg, aber mit dem IT Dienstleister Datapau zusammen. Dieses Angebot selbst, was jetzt zum Beispiel andere Kommunen, andere St\u00e4dte benutzen k\u00f6nnten, das bekommen sie dann von Dataport, also als als Dienstleister, der das anbietet f\u00fcr eine neue Community, die es auch nutzen m\u00f6chte. Und die kann da den Buch Also diesen Dienst einfach buchen, bekommt noch und da f\u00e4ngt das eben schon an mit der Zusammenarbeit. Die bekommt dann noch zum Beispiel Dokumente und Schulungsmaterial, was in Hamburg entwickelt wurde.\n\nDas bekommen die schon mal, damit die einfach schneller starten k\u00f6nnen und sagen k\u00f6nnen, okay, also so starten k\u00f6nnen und sagen k\u00f6nnen, okay, also so allgemeines Wissen KI, was also alle Mitarbeitenden in der \u00f6ffentlichen Verwaltung m\u00fcssen so ganz kurz eingewiesen werden in die Nutzung der KI. Und dieses Schulungsmaterial, das kann man nat\u00fcrlich universell verwenden. Und Du hattest es angesprochen, wenn dann gesagt wird, okay, wir wollen jetzt die Parlamentsdaten da verarbeiten, dann muss nat\u00fcrlich in 'ner anderen Stadt ein anderer Datensatz rein. Aber so f\u00e4ngt das an, dass man sagen kann, okay, man kann zusammenarbeiten, man kann Vorarbeiten nutzen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Niedersachsen ist tats\u00e4chlich genau darauf angesprungen. Die nieders\u00e4chsische Verwaltung, die hat l l mhoin implementiert sozusagen in die eigene IT Infrastruktur. Das mhoin, das passt ja nach Niedersachsen auch ganz gut, w\u00fcrde ich sagen. Wenn wir uns jetzt mal anschauen, was die Vorteile sind, es ist halt wahnsinnig schnell, ne? Also man kann auf bestehende Strukturen aufbauen, man kann sie sogar \u00fcbernehmen.\n\nDer Betreiber DataPort, der verspricht innerhalb von 6 Wochen. Da lie\u00dfe sich LL Moin woanders implementieren. Mike hat aber wahrscheinlich auch 'n paar Nachteile, oder? Also wie ich's das verstanden hab, l\u00e4sst sich das Tool ja nur schlecht individuell anpassen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Oh, da m\u00fcsste ich jetzt DataPort fragen, die werden das wahrscheinlich anders sehen. Nein, aber genau da ist ist nat\u00fcrlich die Krux. Es gibt ja ganz unterschiedliche Art und Weisen, wie ich dann meine Softwarel\u00f6sung zur Verf\u00fcgung stellen kann. Und bei LL9 ist es tats\u00e4chlich eine Variante, die enorme Vorteile bringt, weil es schnell geht, weil noch weitere Dokumente mitgeliefert werden, also der der gesamte Bereich abgedeckt wird, der erforderlich ist. Hat aber dann genau dann auf der anderen Seite das Problem, dass ich's nat\u00fcrlich nicht allzu tief selbst gestalten kann in dem System selbst oder in der Anwendung selbst.\n\nDa sind andere gehen 'n ganz anderen Weg. F 13 zum Beispiel, das halt komplett Open Source gestellt ist, wo ich theoretisch die Software nehmen kann und sie bei mir selbst einrichten kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: F 13, das ist das Beispiel aus Baden W\u00fcrttemberg. Die machen's nun wirklich eben, wie Du sagst, ganz anders, ne?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Und das hat halt beides so seine Vor- und Nachteile. Das eine halt geht schnell, ist vergleichsweise einfach. Das andere ist nat\u00fcrlich sehr viel komplexer, muss ich sehr viel mehr an Expertise mitbringen und auch sehr viel mehr selbst aufbauen und die ganzen Compliance Sachen mehr oder minder selbst entwickeln. Daf\u00fcr hab ich die Gestaltung wieder sehr stark in der Hand.\n\nAlso ein Tod muss ich sterben.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, vielleicht das noch mal diese Compliance m\u00f6cht ich noch mal unterst\u00fctzen. Das, aber Sie haben auch mit Anwendern gesprochen und die KI Tool im, so KI Tools im Verwaltungskontext richtig zu benutzen, Datenschutz einzubinden und KI Verordnung zu ber\u00fccksichtigen und so weiter, das ist halt 'n gro\u00dfes Thema. Also neue Verwaltungsverfahren einzuf\u00fchren, meistens \u00fcber 'n Dienstleister und so weiter, ist sowieso schon anstrengend und bei KI, aufgrund der Cloud Verarbeitung und so weiter, kommen da noch 'n paar Schippen drauf. Und deshalb ist es nicht so sehr eine technische Frage eigentlich in der Komplexit\u00e4t, sondern es ist wirklich eher eine organisatorische Frage und ja. Und dann muss man eben gucken und wo kann ich schneiden?\n\nWie kann Was kann ich schon bekommen und was kann ich denn f\u00fcr meine eigenen Bed\u00fcrfnisse anpassen? Und da sag ich mal, da gibt es 2 Seiten, 'n Logo neu reinzubringen von der von der Stadt, von der Gemeinde oder so was. Das ist \u00fcberhaupt kein Thema, das ist \u00fcberall vorgesehen. Die Frage ist zum Beispiel, ob man das Sprachmodell auswechseln kann, wenn man da Bedarf dran hat. Und da ist dann halt El Moyn eher eingeschr\u00e4nkt oder man m\u00fcsste gucken, kann man da was machen, dann ist der Aufwand wieder gr\u00f6\u00dfer oder man nimmt so das Paket, wie es funktioniert.\n\nNeues Logo rein, kleiner Hinweis an die Mitarbeiter und also lokaler Hinweis an die Mitarbeiter und dann los geht's in kurzer Zeit einsatzbereit.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und bei F 13, also der Open Source L\u00f6sung, da k\u00f6nnte ich tats\u00e4chlich im Hintergrund am Sprachmodell noch mal etwas drehen und schrauben. Da muss ich\n\nSpeaker 1: sogar am Sprachmodell drehen und schrauben. Bei diesen L\u00f6sungen, da ist das Sprachmodell eben nicht dabei, sondern es ist vorbereitet, dass ich 'n Sprachmodell einbinde. Und dann fange ich an und lade mir also diese Software runter, installier die bei mir. Das ist, wie gesagt, ganz normaler IT Technik. Das muss dann irgendwo laufen in irgendeinem sicheren Rechenzentrum und so weiter.\n\nDann muss ich wissen, welche Klasse von Daten ich verarbeite. VSNFT zum Beispiel, Verschlusssache nur f\u00fcr Dienstgebrauch, also die leichteste Geheimhaltungsstufe. Wenn ich so was verarbeiten m\u00f6chte oder personenbezogene Daten, dann muss ich nat\u00fcrlich da bei der Verarbeitung drauf achten. So, das ist die eine Seite. Und dann kommt die Auswahl, welches Sprachmodell binde ich an?\n\nWo l\u00e4uft das? L\u00e4uft das bei mir auch im Rechenzentrum? Dann brauch ich ziemlich viel Hardware, also diese ber\u00fchmten Grafikkarten. Oder miete ich mir das auch? Binde ich mich irgendwo an?\n\nDann kostet mich das laufende Kosten. Was kostet das \u00fcberhaupt? Bis zu diesen sehr interessanten Modellen, dass man sagt, okay, am Arbeitsplatz sitz ich sitzt immer der gleiche Mensch, hat die gleiche Oberfl\u00e4che. Aber je nachdem, was f\u00fcr Daten eingegeben werden, wird es mal von dem einen Modell beantwortet, n\u00e4mlich im preiswerten \u00f6ffentlichen Modell, wo auch keine wo man ruhig sensible Daten hinschicken kann. Wenn ich jetzt aber f\u00fcr eine andere Anwendung speziellere Daten habe, dann wird es in ein eigenes Rechenzentrum geroutet und dort vertraulich behandelt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich k\u00f6nnte mir vorstellen, wenn wir jetzt \u00fcber die \u00f6ffentliche Verwaltung sprechen, dass unterm Strich auch die Kosten ganz interessant sind. Wie ist es denn bei den beiden Wegen, die ihr nur skizziert habt? Ne, der eine Weg, ich hab sozusagen ein Modell, das fertig auf den Servern liegt, das noch mal ein bisschen umdesignt wird, aber dann ist es schon da und das andere Open Source, ich kann's mir runterladen, muss es aber komplett neu entwickeln. Was ist der preiswertere Weg?\n\nSpeaker 1: Na, das kann man so Also \u00fcber Preise spricht da keiner und das kann man Das ist wirklich sehr schwierig, vor allen Dingen auch, weil das ja Kontingente sind und so weiter. Sondern es ist so eher sozusagen diese Was interessant ist, sind die verschiedenen Mechanismen, die man da drin hat. Also zum Beispiel, wenn man f\u00fcr die Bundesverwaltung Das wird \u00fcber das Projekt zum Beispiel Keepitz gemacht und dort alle \u00c4mter, alle Beh\u00f6rden, die dort sozusagen einsteigen, die teilen sich 'n Hardwarepool in dem Rechenzentrum des des Bundes. Und das ist nat\u00fcrlich eine interessante Idee, wenn man sagt, okay, wir haben mal dann Spitzen und die anderen haben woanders Spitzen. Das hei\u00dft, man steigt also ein mit seinem Bedarf, aber kann dann noch zum Beispiel Spitzen durch eine gemeinsame Verarbeitung abfedern.\n\nOder aber man sagt, okay, ich such mir jetzt das allerbilligste Sprachmodell raus. Es geht \u00fcbrigens so weit, ich wei\u00df nicht, ob Du das wei\u00dft, Mike, dass eine Stadt durchaus sagt, ach, wir k\u00f6nnen auch 'n chinesisches Sprachmodell nehmen. Das blenden lassen wir bei uns im Keller laufen. Und da geht ja nix rein und nix raus, dann nehmen wir dieses chinesische Modell und ist auch sicher f\u00fcr diesen Fall, nicht. Und dann gibt's wieder andere, Polizei Baden W\u00fcrttemberg, die sagt, ja, aber das ist ja auch gef\u00e4hrlich.\n\nWir sind ja abh\u00e4ngig von solchen von solcher IT, gar nicht mal so sehr vom Sprach und der aber von der IT. Wir wollen diese IT Entwicklung nutzen, \u00fcberhaupt in die Cloud zu gehen, also nicht mehr im lokalen Rechenzentrum im eigenen Keller zu sein, sondern zu sagen, wir gehen jetzt in eine sichere Cloud, wo auch 'n anderer Anbieter vielleicht in Konkurrenz sein kann oder wo ich eine Back-up und eine Redundanz habe. Und in diesem Umfeld, in diesem riesengro\u00dfen Umfeld muss ich halt mich orientieren, was f\u00fcr mich und meine Anwendung am besten ist.\n\nSpeaker 2: F\u00fcr die Kosten sind da nat\u00fcrlich unendlich viele Stellgr\u00f6\u00dfen drin, wie wir Ja. Wie Jens ja grade auch schon beschrieben hat. Und ich denke, der gr\u00f6\u00dfte die gr\u00f6\u00dfte oder der gr\u00f6\u00dfte entscheidende Faktor f\u00fcr die Kosten ist tats\u00e4chlich, was hab ich da f\u00fcr eine Anwendung? Ja. Wenn ich damit noch eine Cloud Infrastruktur irgendwo nutzen kann, dann ist es im Zweifel immer deutlich billiger, als wenn ich im gesch\u00fctzten Rechenzentrum hochsensible Daten verarbeite.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und dann geht's noch weiter, dass man wirklich sagt, okay, das waren jetzt die Kosten, aber es h\u00e4ngt ja mit der Funktion zusammen. Also, dass ich die Sprachmodelle, die sind ja auch sehr unterschiedlich gro\u00df. Und dann ist ja Ich muss ja nicht immer das allergr\u00f6\u00dfte Sprachmodell nutzen, immer wieder Kleckerkramfragen zu beantworten. So. Daf\u00fcr gibt's nat\u00fcrlich Antworten von den Sprachmodellherstellern, von den Anbietern und also ganz verschiedene Ans\u00e4tze, wie das gemacht wird.\n\nUnd von den Anbietern selbst ist es dann so, dass zum Beispiel in der Preisliste drinsteht, was kosten Input Tokens? Also Token ist so die kleinste Einheit bei Sprachmodellen, also vergleichbar mit Silben oder W\u00f6rtern. Was kosten Input Tokens? Nat\u00fcrlich immer im Millionenbereich. Und was kosten Output Tokens?\n\nUnd das ist durchaus unterschiedlich. Was kostet die Speicherung? Vielleicht eine Grundgeb\u00fchr Ja. Und so weiter. Und da muss man dann wirklich sagen, welche Anwendung habe ich?\n\nSchicke ich eher Text hin? Krieg ich eher Text zur\u00fcck In meinem Mix ist die kann ich 'n einfaches Sprachmodell nutzen, was billiger ist? Oder muss ich was Komplexes haben?\n\nSpeaker 0: Wenn wir jetzt mal so von den Kosten weggehen, Jens, ich hab dich aber trotzdem jetzt auch so verstanden, dass es keinen K\u00f6nigsweg gibt in der Verwaltung, sondern auch hier gilt so der Lieblingsspruch 1 jeden Rechtsanwalts. Es kommt darauf an, ne, n\u00e4mlich wof\u00fcr brauch ich da Sprachmodell \u00fcberhaupt? Mike, w\u00fcrdest Du's \u00e4hnlich sehen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, absolut. Voll und ganz, das ist eigentlich mein Lieblingsspruch. Ich bin irritiert, dass Du den bringst. Nein, wir haben's ja schon skizziert, also es kommt wirklich ganz genau darauf an, einerseits, welche Daten verwende ich, welche Daten verarbeite ich, andererseits, was ist die Anwendung, was muss will ich damit erreichen? Und danach orientiert sich dann die die Architektur und dann irgendwann auch die Kosten.\n\nSpeaker 0: Schauen wir uns zum Schluss mal Strategien f\u00fcr die Vernetzung an. Warum f\u00e4llt's am Ende so schwer dennoch, sich auf zumindest einen Weg zu einigen? Denn ich k\u00f6nnte mir vorstellen, dass wenn man, selbst wenn man verschiedene Anspr\u00fcche hat, dass es trotzdem ja doch eigentlich mehr Synergien schafft, wenn man gemeinsam an einem Strang zieht und sich erst mal auf ein Grundmodell einigt und das dann an verschiedene Stellen ausspielt. Wie seht ihr hier die M\u00f6glichkeiten noch zu 1 engeren Kooperation in Zukunft?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich denke, der Weg ist vorgezeichnet und da ist durchaus auch Interesse dran. Es ist traditionell im F\u00f6deralismus in Deutschland nicht so, dass man sagt, okay, wir haben jetzt eine L\u00f6sung, die f\u00fcr alle funktioniert, aber man kann schon sagen, okay, wir konzentrieren uns 'n bisschen auf 'n paar L\u00f6sungen, die jetzt auch sozusagen dieses weite Feld, was wir aufgemacht haben, son bisschen abdecken, vielleicht dort auch eine gewisse Konvergenz stattfindet, dass also zum Beispiel Anwendungen, die jetzt nur ein Sprachmodell haben oder die vorher noch nicht diese das den Bedarf gehabt haben, dass die dann zum Beispiel weitere Sprachmodelle anbinden auf Es ist ja auch 'n Entwicklungseinfeld, was sich jetzt auch rasend schnell au\u00dferhalb der Verwaltung weiterentwickelt. Und ja, und da sehen wir eben 2 Schnittstellen, nat\u00fcrliche Schnittstellen in Anf\u00fchrungsstrichen, die sich anbieten und wo auch demn\u00e4chst Also wo auch die 1. Zusammenarbeit schon funktioniert. Und das ist das 1.\n\nIst eben das von mir schon erw\u00e4hnte \u00fcberhaupt 'n Sprachmodell anzubinden mit den verschiedenen Preismodellen, mit den verschiedenen F\u00e4higkeiten. Das ist eine nat\u00fcrliche Schnittstelle und eine andere Schnittstelle ist aus 'ner technischen Perspektive die die KI Anwendung, also der innere Bereich sozusagen. Will ich jetzt chatten? Also nicht die grafische Oberfl\u00e4che, sondern sozusagen da drin die Frage, ich m\u00f6chte chatten oder ich m\u00f6chte Daten zusammenfassen und so weiter. Und f\u00fcr solche KI Anwendungen, die jetzt den Kern ausmacht, dort muss man auch ein kleines, wie soll ich sagen, kleines Ger\u00fcst stricken, eine Orchestrierung, wie diese verschiedenen IT Komponenten nacheinander benutzt werden sollen.\n\nAlso zum Beispiel greife auf die auf eine Datenbank zu, wo die Parlamentsdaten sind, 'n Prompt zu schreiben, was damit passieren soll und wieder auszugeben, vielleicht Filterungen und so weiter. Und das diese dieser engere Kreis, dieser KI Anwendung, die wird man demn\u00e4chst auch austauschen k\u00f6nnen zwischen diesen verschiedenen L\u00f6sungen. Und die l\u00e4sst sich aus technischer Perspektive auch relativ einfach isolieren, weil dann doch trotz einiger Varianten diese Verwaltungs KI doch relativ \u00e4hnlich aufgebaut ist jeweils.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt taucht ja auch einen Begriff in eurer Vorstudie auf, n\u00e4mlich dir der Referenzarchitektur. So, ich stell mir das jetzt son bisschen vor wie son Legobaukasten und jede Verwaltung pickt sich so die Legosteine raus, ne, bestimmte Anfragen, bestimmte Auswertung und baut sich ein System zusammen. Maik, geht das so einfach, wie ich mir das grade vorstelle oder ist das dann doch 'n bisschen komplexer?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist 1 der Lieblingspassagen in der Studie von mir. Hinten die Ursprungsmodelle, die die einzelnen L\u00f6sungen dann aufgebaut haben. Wie unterschiedlich, was f\u00fcr 'n breites Spektrum man da sieht. Ist ja auch eine Leistung dieser Studie, das dann halt zusammenzuf\u00fchren und einen Vorschlag zu machen, wie so eine Rahmengrob Architektur aussehen k\u00f6nnte. Und wenn man die hat, dann und eine gemeinsame Sprache hat, dann kann man genau da hingehen und zu so einem Legobaukasten kommen.\n\nUnd da hat Jens ja auch schon die ersten ersten Schritte oder die die absehbaren Schritte, muss man ja sagen, weil auch das ist 'n wunderbares Ergebnis dieser Studie. Alle Vorhaben denken ja in irgendeiner Form die Weiterverwendung immer mit. Also ob sie dann ihre Plattform \u00f6ffnen f\u00fcr immer breitere Gruppen oder ob sie's Open Source stellen oder irgend eine Mischung dazwischen. Also das ist schon schon integraler Bestandteil von diesen Vorhaben, das immer mitzudenken. Und halt sicherlich ein K\u00f6nigsweg ist genau diese Legobausteine dann aus so austauschbar zu machen, wie es eben geht und dann halt auch davon zu profitieren.\n\nUnd dann kann ich halt den Microservice, ist das richtig? Ja. Den Microservice aus Hessen nehmen und in Baden W\u00fcrttemberg einsetzen oder in Nordrhein Westfalen oder so und so.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau und ich m\u00f6chte noch mal den Bogen etwas gr\u00f6\u00dfer ziehen und zwar, wir haben ja den Deutschland Stack. Das ist ja eine gro\u00dfe Aktivit\u00e4t, die IT in Deutschland eben souver\u00e4ner aufzustellen, Konvergenz herzustellen zwischen L\u00f6sungen und dort, das ist sozusagen der gro\u00dfe Legobaukasten, den Du gerade angesprochen hast. Dort gibt's also zum Beispiel oder wird es geben, dass dort zum Beispiel Datenbanken benannt sind als IT Baustein, ne, eine Datenbank. Und dann wird man nat\u00fcrlicherweise sagen, okay, meine KI Anwendung, die baue ich aus diesen Bausteinen, die im Deutschland Stack sind zusammen. Und dann sage ich okay und andererseits kann ich dann wieder sagen, ja, aber jetzt habe ich eine sch\u00f6ne funktionierende KI Anwendung, die eigentlich ganz gut funktioniert f\u00fcr diesen und jeden Zweck, die kann ich ja wieder dem Deutschland Stack als Gesamtes zur Verf\u00fcgung stellen und sagen, okay, wenn jetzt jemand anders was zusammenbasteln will, hier hast Du schon mal 90 Prozent oder so was und Du musst jetzt nur noch 'n paar kleinere \u00c4nderungen machen.\n\nUnd das ist so die Idee, dass sich sone Idee nat\u00fcrlich auch noch mal, also eine moderne IT L\u00f6sung, die cloudbasiert ist, die auch viel auf Open Source Komponenten besteht, die modular immer aufgebaut ist, auf Microservices beruht und offenen und Schnittstellen, dass die nat\u00fcrlich in sonem Stack eingeordnet werden kann und dann wirklich auch einl\u00e4dt dazu, Teile oder dies ganze System zu nutzen, weiterzuentwickeln.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und das klingt ja so, als w\u00fcrde das auch wirklich Synergien schaffen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das schafft dann echte Synergien, weil da nat\u00fcrlich immer hinter steckt. Kommen wir wieder zur\u00fcck zu diesen Fragen von IT Sicherheit, konform ins Datenschutz und so weiter. Diese ganzen Compliance Themen und die sind wirklich superaufwendig, dass ich da mal jemanden hinsetze und Also das kann man heute im Studium lernen oder das wissen. Da kriegt man IT Leute, die sone L\u00f6sung zusammenbauen k\u00f6nnen. Das ist kein Thema, aber die wirklich fachlich und sachgerecht wirklich einzusetzen, datenschutzkonform in der Verwaltung, da organisatorisch das aufzubauen, da steckt also sozusagen die Arbeit drin.\n\nUnd und das wird nat\u00fcrlich einfacher, wenn ich zusammenarbeite und wenn ich sage, okay, das muss ich mir nicht von Grund auf ausdenken, sondern irgendjemand hat schon eine Datenschekliste gemacht, die kann ich jetzt auch einfach abarbeiten oder die kriege ich schon dazu zu meiner L\u00f6sung, die ich da hole. Und das ist gar nicht so sehr die Technik Technik, die ich da haben will, sondern es ist vielleicht, weil das sowieso Open Source Projekte sind, sondern das ist vielleicht eher, dass jemand schon sich drum Gedanken gemacht hat, wie man das in diesem konkreten Kontext der Verwaltung diese Open Source Software einsetzen kann. Und das ist der Riesenvorteil.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich w\u00fcrde mit euch gern zum Schluss noch einen Blick in die Zukunft werfen. KI L\u00f6sungen werden grad \u00fcberall diskutiert in jeder Branche, in jedem Zusammenhang und nat\u00fcrlich eben auch in der Verwaltung. Wenn wir jetzt mal so 10 Jahre in die Zukunft schauen, welche Rolle wird KI, werden KI Tools in der Verwaltung spielen? Wird das ein Tool von vielen anderen oder eine Anwendung auch von vielen anderen sein oder wird sie wirklich zentral? Mike, Du bist Trendforscher und Zukunftsforscher, Du darfst zuerst antworten.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das hab ich bef\u00fcrchtet. Bei meinem Pr\u00e4sentation zu KI behaupte ich tats\u00e4chlich, dass es dieser Halbzyklen gibt und dass man dann immer wieder zu dem Punkt kommt, wo es dann eine normale Anwendung wird. Das l\u00e4sst sich ja in der Vergangenheit sehr sch\u00f6n beobachten. Es wird sicherlich auch ein St\u00fcck weit so sein. Ich denke nur, dass in der aktuellen Entwicklung aus ganz verschiedenen Gr\u00fcnden die Bedeutung noch mal grade f\u00fcr die Verwaltung gr\u00f6\u00dfer ist.\n\n1 der zentralen Punkte ist, oder wie Jens ganz am Anfang gesagt, dass diese Tools mit Text umgehen k\u00f6nnen. Das das konnte KI immer schon irgendwie, aber jetzt so, dass man sich verstanden f\u00fchlt und dass man auch 'n echten Mehrwert daraus generieren kann, wenn man neue Texte in einfacher Sprache oder in was auch immer transformiert oder neu erzeugen l\u00e4sst. Und ich glaube, das ist dieser dieser andere Zugang und der andere Umgang mit den Tools, der die Verarbeitung in der Verwaltung deutlich erleichtert. Das ist, glaub ich, wirklich 'n Asset, das bleiben wird und das auch einiges ver\u00e4ndern wird in der Verwaltung. Wobei man auch dazu sagen muss, zumindest bei der aktuellen Anwendung von Sprachmodellen und auch bei dem, solange Halluzinationen und solche Probleme bleiben, kann man das ja nicht so also bescheiden damit schreiben zu lassen, k\u00f6nnte 'n bisschen riskant sein.\n\nIch kann Sie dann vielleicht in einfache Sprache umformulieren lassen. Aber immer da, wo ich dann halt eben rechtssichere und wirklich korrekte Aussagen brauche, sind sie vermutlich mal absehbar nicht zu gebrauchen. Und deswegen ist dieser Bereich der der gro\u00dfen Sprachmodelle, wo wir im Moment grade dr\u00fcber reden, wer wei\u00df, wor\u00fcber wir in 10 Jahren reden, aber wo wir im Moment grade dr\u00fcber reden, der Anwendungsbereich schon eingeschr\u00e4nkt und in erster Linie auch Fragen des Zugangs. Dahinter gibt es ganz viele andere Automatisierungs- und auch KI Fragen, die man noch l\u00f6sen k\u00f6nnte, wenn man an automatisierte oder proaktive Verwaltungsverfahren denkt, die dann halb bis ganz automatisiert durchlaufen. Aber da sind wir dann ganz weit weg von Sprachmodellen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jens, die Zukunft der Sprachmodelle, was meinst Du?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, da m\u00f6chte ich gleich anschlie\u00dfen und wir sind nicht so weit weg, denke ich, weil in der Verwaltung von Sprachmodellen, weil da kann man ja einen kleinen cleveren Zwischenschritt machen und das w\u00e4re auch mein Thema, was in 10 Jahren passiert in der Verwaltung. Also der 1. Teil ist klar, wir reden \u00fcber Sprachverarbeitung in Sprache formulieren Und was ich jetzt interessant finde, ist, ich komme aus dem Bereich, hab mir Low Code Systeme angeguckt, also in denen Nutzer, die nicht so viel Programmier- und Programmiererfahrung haben oder gar keine Programmiererfahrung haben, dass die also sozusagen Verwaltungsverfahren aufsetzen k\u00f6nnen. Und an dieser Stelle kann ich also zum Beispiel schon KI einsetzen, wie man sie auch zum Programmieren von Also wie Programmierer auch Sprachmodelle einsetzen, Software zu schreiben. Und was ich spannend finde jetzt in diesem in diesem Zusammenhang ist, dass man jetzt von sozusagen von Flie\u00dftext, von gesprochener Sprache sozusagen, dass man zu mehr formalisierten Sachen kommt und dass zum Beispiel ein Gesetz in einen Entscheidungsbaum umgesetzt wird.\n\nDas kann man auf der reinen Sprachebene machen. Dann muss man nat\u00fcrlich gucken und das ist Hat ja Mike zurecht gesagt Man muss dann nat\u00fcrlich gucken, ob das richtig ist. Und aber hier besteht die gro\u00dfe Chance, dass man sozusagen einmal ein Gesetz in einen Entscheidungsbaum umsetzt. Den kann man pr\u00fcfen, den kann man archivieren, dem kann man 'n Datum geben und sagen, an dem und ab dem und dem Zeitpunkt haben wir diesen Entscheidungsbaum angesetzt eingesetzt. Den haben jetzt nicht mehr Menschen zusammengebastelt, sondern den hat eine KI zusammengebastelt.\n\nMenschen haben's gepr\u00fcft und ab da kann man wieder die klassischen regelbasierten Systeme einsetzen und sagen, okay, nach diesem Entscheidungsbaum ist 100 Prozent sicher, dass so und so viel Steuern gezahlt werden, ob's Wohngeld gibt oder was wei\u00df ich. Und hier kann man dann die automatisierten Verfahren wieder einsetzen. Und das Tolle ist halt dieses, dass man Sprachmodelle eben einsetzen kann, auch formalisierte Sprache, die L\u00fccke zwischen Computer und Mensch noch etwas zu schlie\u00dfen und sozusagen Menschen ein Werkzeug an die Hand zu geben, Computer leistungsf\u00e4higer zu programmieren.\n\nSpeaker 2: V\u00f6llig d'accord, nur dann brauche ich halt wieder f\u00fcr die Automatisierung wohl definierte Daten, funktionierende Register, automatisch kommunizierende und deswegen mein etwas zur\u00fcckhaltende Antwort mit den 10 Jahren. Also es liegt gar nicht so sehr im Bereich der KI und in in der technischen Umsetzung, da gibt es wunderbare neue M\u00f6glichkeiten, aber in der in den Hausaufgaben, in den Grundlagen, da k\u00f6nnte es noch schwierig werden oder schwierig bleiben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie aber Menschen und Verwaltungen doch ganz gut auch mal zusammenarbeiten k\u00f6nnen und ja vielleicht auch gemeinsam in Vorleistung gehen k\u00f6nnen, damit's funktioniert mit der KI, das haben wir heute erfahren in Restart digital, dem Podcast des Kompetenzzentrums \u00f6ffentlicher IT. Sch\u00f6nen Dank an Jens Tiemann und Doktor Mike Weber. Sch\u00f6n, dass ihr hier wart.\n\nSpeaker 2: Danke dir. Danke.\n\nSpeaker 0: Falls euch der Podcast gefallen hat, folgt uns kostenfrei auf Spotify, Apple Podcasts und vielen weiteren Apps. Und schreibt uns gern noch eine Bewertung, wenn ihr denn m\u00f6gt. Tsch\u00fcs und bis bald. Mein Name ist Philipp 1.", "paragraphs": [{"sentences": [{"text": "In Berlin hei\u00dfen sie BRGPT, in Hamburg LL Moin und in Hessen Ai GUDE.", "start": 1.8399999, "end": 7.8599997}, {"text": "Die \u00f6ffentliche Verwaltung setzt zunehmend auf KI Tools.", "start": 8.08, "end": 11.38}, {"text": "Chat Bots k\u00f6nnen zum Beispiel Anfragen von B\u00fcrger*innen rund die Uhr beantworten.", "start": 11.679999, "end": 16.005001}, {"text": "Das entlastet einerseits die Servicest\u00e4llen und verk\u00fcrzt die Wartezeiten.", "start": 16.705, "end": 20.164999}, {"text": "Auf der anderen Seite aber unterst\u00fctzt die KI Mitarbeitende in der Verwaltung ganz direkt.", "start": 20.545, "end": 25.525}], "start": 1.8399999, "end": 25.525, "num_words": 57.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Sie kann zum Beispiel gro\u00dfe Mengen unstrukturierter Daten wie Textdokumente, Gesetze und Berichte effizient verarbeiten.", "start": 25.585, "end": 32.260002}, {"text": "Was allerdings 'n bisschen weniger effizient ist, viele Beh\u00f6rden basteln an ihre eigenen KI L\u00f6sung.", "start": 33.28, "end": 38.66}, {"text": "Ist das wirklich n\u00f6tig?", "start": 38.72, "end": 39.94}, {"text": "Wie kann die Verwaltung zusammenarbeiten, Anwendungen miteinander zu teilen?", "start": 40.16, "end": 44.26}, {"text": "Dazu hat das Kompetenzzentrum \u00f6ffentliche IT k\u00fcrzlich eine Vorstudie vorgestellt.", "start": 44.745003, "end": 49.085}], "start": 25.585, "end": 49.085, "num_words": 53.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Die Ergebnisse wollen wir uns in dieser Podcastfolge anschauen.", "start": 49.465, "end": 52.365}, {"text": "Herzlich willkommen beim \u00f6FIT Podcast restart digital, eine Produktion des Fraunhofer Instituts f\u00fcr offene Kommunikationssysteme.", "start": 59.225, "end": 65.22}, {"text": "Ich bin Philipp 1 und ich begr\u00fc\u00dfe meine beiden Co Hosts.", "start": 66.32, "end": 69.520004}, {"text": "Das ist zum einen Jens Tiemann.", "start": 69.520004, "end": 71.06}, {"text": "Er befasst sich mit den technischen Grundlagen der Digitalisierung.", "start": 71.200005, "end": 74.020004}], "start": 49.465, "end": 74.020004, "num_words": 50.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Schwerpunkte seiner Arbeit liegen im Bereich Internet, Vernetzung und neue Technologien.", "start": 74.555, "end": 78.575}, {"text": "Herzlich willkommen Jens.", "start": 78.875, "end": 79.915}], "start": 74.555, "end": 79.915, "num_words": 14.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Ja hallo.", "start": 79.915, "end": 80.655}], "start": 79.915, "end": 80.655, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Und mit dabei Doktor Mike Weber.", "start": 81.595, "end": 83.275}, {"text": "Er ist Trendforscher und stellvertretender Leiter des \u00dcft, auch unser Stammgast hier im Studio.", "start": 83.275, "end": 87.755}, {"text": "Hallo Mike.", "start": 87.755, "end": 88.475}], "start": 81.595, "end": 88.475, "num_words": 22.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Hallo Philipp.", "start": 88.475, "end": 89.375}], "start": 88.475, "end": 89.375, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Ja, schauen wir zun\u00e4chst mal, was KI Bots in den Beh\u00f6rden so k\u00f6nnen.", "start": 90.04, "end": 93.34}, {"text": "L l Moin, der Name klingt vielleicht 'n bisschen albern, aber die Anwendung der Hamburger Verwaltung, die hat's in sich.", "start": 93.4, "end": 99.82}, {"text": "Ja, was kann die jetzt?", "start": 99.88, "end": 101.18}], "start": 90.04, "end": 101.18, "num_words": 38.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Ja, so typischerweise, also wir reden ja, wie Du eben schon erz\u00e4hlt hast, wir reden \u00fcber die Anwendung von Sprachmodellen in der \u00f6ffentlichen Verwaltung.", "start": 101.875, "end": 111.975}, {"text": "Und Verwaltung arbeiten nat\u00fcrlich viel mit Sprache, dass dort Texte verarbeitet werden, dass das auf Texten basiert, zum Beispiel meinetwegen Koalitionsvertr\u00e4gen, aber auch Antr\u00e4ge, die reinkommen.", "start": 112.994995, "end": 124.990005}, {"text": "Und solche Sprachmodelle oder solche Anwendungen k\u00f6nnen dann Texte zusammenfassen, Texte umformulieren, zum Beispiel auch in einfacher Sprache oder man kann eben aus Stichworten Texte formulieren lassen.", "start": 125.770004, "end": 140.845}], "start": 101.875, "end": 140.845, "num_words": 77.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Was sind da so ganz konkrete Anwendungsfelder jetzt in der Hamburger Verwaltung?", "start": 140.985, "end": 144.28499}], "start": 140.985, "end": 144.28499, "num_words": 12.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Oh, in der Hamburger Verwaltung.", "start": 145.32999, "end": 146.87}], "start": 145.32999, "end": 146.87, "num_words": 5.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Also welche Texte m\u00fcssen die zusammen was machen lassen?", "start": 147.56999, "end": 150.20999}], "start": 147.56999, "end": 150.20999, "num_words": 9.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Also in Hamburg wei\u00df ich das jetzt gerade nicht.", "start": 150.20999, "end": 152.84999}, {"text": "In eine typische Anwendung ist, dass der Grundstock an Ver\u00f6ffentlichung, Pressemeldungen und so weiter, Regierungserkl\u00e4rung und so was ist dort verf\u00fcgbar, kann recherchiert werden und kann dementsprechend, wenn zum Beispiel Anfragen kommen oder so was, kann das effizient verarbeitet werden und dann kann man muss man also nicht selber in diesem Wust an Daten suchen, sondern kann sagen, okay, ich m\u00f6chte zu dieser Frage etwas beantworten.", "start": 152.84999, "end": 181.37}, {"text": "Eine kleine Anfrage beispielsweise im Parlament und dann sagt man, okay, welche Grundlagen gibt's daf\u00fcr?", "start": 182.70999, "end": 188.40999}, {"text": "Was stand in der Regierungserkl\u00e4rung?", "start": 188.46999, "end": 189.78499}, {"text": "Und dann wird das", "start": 191.045, "end": 192.105}], "start": 150.20999, "end": 192.105, "num_words": 99.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "zusammengefasst.", "start": 193.125, "end": 193.44499}, {"text": "Ja, also Texte auswerten, Texte neu zusammenfassen auch wieder aus den ausgewerteten, das klingt auch so, als w\u00e4r das einfach wirklich effizienter, ne?", "start": 193.44499, "end": 201.20499}, {"text": "Als das, was die Verwaltungsmitarbeitenden vorher sonst h\u00e4ndisch machen mussten.", "start": 201.20499, "end": 205.26}], "start": 193.125, "end": 205.26, "num_words": 34.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Ja, es ist einfach ein sehr potentes Werkzeug, ne?", "start": 205.26, "end": 208.54}, {"text": "Die Idee muss man nat\u00fcrlich selber mitbringen und das Denken kommt nat\u00fcrlich weiter von den Verwaltungsmitarbeitenden, aber dann das auszuformulieren oder nochmal umzuformulieren, weil zum Beispiel Texte aus der Verwaltung typischerweise in 'nem gewissen Stil B\u00fcrgerinnen und B\u00fcrger erwarten.", "start": 208.54, "end": 229.145}, {"text": "Da hilft das nat\u00fcrlich sehr weiter.", "start": 230.405, "end": 231.945}, {"text": "Das hei\u00dft, da Das geht dort nicht automatische Entscheidungen oder so was, sondern es geht wirklich Textarbeit, Formulierungen, in Dokumenten suchen, recherchieren, \u00fcbersetzen, solche Fragen.", "start": 232.325, "end": 243.45999}], "start": 205.26, "end": 243.45999, "num_words": 79.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Nun kann genau das nat\u00fcrlich auch Also Texte zusammenfassen, Inhalte generieren, ne, recherchieren.", "start": 243.45999, "end": 249.245}, {"text": "Das k\u00f6nnen ja auch alles g\u00e4ngige Tools wie ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity, wie sie alle hei\u00dfen.", "start": 249.465, "end": 255.405}, {"text": "Mike, warum brauchen Beh\u00f6rden eigene Tools daf\u00fcr?", "start": 255.545, "end": 258.285}], "start": 243.45999, "end": 258.285, "num_words": 35.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Das kommt immer ganz auf den Anwendungsfall an.", "start": 259.72, "end": 261.4}, {"text": "Also es gibt sicherlich auch Anwendungsf\u00e4lle, f\u00fcr die Weihnachtskarte zum Beispiel kann ich auch problemlos Chat GPT benutzen und da gibt's keine keine Beschr\u00e4nkung.", "start": 261.4, "end": 268.94}, {"text": "Schwierig wird es dann, wenn ich sensible Daten verwende nat\u00fcrlich.", "start": 269.0, "end": 273.755}, {"text": "Also da gibt es ja auch unterschiedliche Abschubungen, aber sp\u00e4testens, wenn es in in auch nur die in den Verdacht geriert, dass es personenbezogenen Daten geht.", "start": 274.05502, "end": 283.17502}, {"text": "In dem Moment brauch ich nat\u00fcrlich 'n gesch\u00fctzten Raum und kann diese Daten nicht irgendwo in die Welt hinauspusten.", "start": 283.17502, "end": 287.355}], "start": 259.72, "end": 287.355, "num_words": 87.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Sicherheitsaspekte betroffen sind, nat\u00fcrlich noch viel, viel mehr.", "start": 288.50998, "end": 291.25}, {"text": "'N weiterer Aspekt ist nat\u00fcrlich auch, dass je intensiver man diese Tools nutzt und das Spektrum ist daher auch enorm, selbst beim bei bei der Ideenfindung gibt es ja mittlerweile Ans\u00e4tze, Chatbots dazu zu benutzen, mit denen gemeinsam zu brainstormen und dann weiterzukommen.", "start": 291.62997, "end": 305.27502}, {"text": "Je intensiver ich die nutze und je mehr Funktionen sie erf\u00fcllen, desto abh\u00e4ngiger bin ich nat\u00fcrlich auch davon und desto wichtiger ist es, dass ich die wesentlichen Komponenten selbst in der Hand habe und selbst bestimmen kann.", "start": 306.695, "end": 317.01}, {"text": "Stichwort digitale Souver\u00e4nit\u00e4t, aber das Thema hatten wir ja schon.", "start": 317.01, "end": 320.79}], "start": 288.50998, "end": 320.79, "num_words": 98.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Also Datenschutz spielt da eine Rolle, Jens?", "start": 321.25, "end": 323.35}], "start": 321.25, "end": 323.35, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Ja und noch mal auf deine Frage zur\u00fcckzukommen.", "start": 323.73, "end": 326.31}, {"text": "Wenn ich da jetzt mal technischer reingehen darf, dahinter steckt denn tats\u00e4chlich eventuell, was wir als ChatGPT kennen, dass ich jetzt also sozusagen 'n bisschen technisch reingucke, dann sind da 2 gro\u00dfe Bl\u00f6cke drin.", "start": 327.01, "end": 339.195}, {"text": "Und das eine ist eine normale IT Anwendung in weiten Sinne, also zum Beispiel auch eine Datenbankabfrage, eine grafische Oberfl\u00e4che, diese ganzen Fragen aus 'ner Verwaltungs IT, wo nat\u00fcrlich das, was Mike sagte, eine Rolle spielt.", "start": 339.495, "end": 353.31998}, {"text": "Ist das sicher, ist das zuverl\u00e4ssig und so weiter.", "start": 353.31998, "end": 355.9}, {"text": "Und der andere Block, der wird im Moment noch, wie man aus den Diskussionen Sprache und Sprachmodelle und KI in Europa kennt, der andere Block sind halt gr\u00f6\u00dftenteils amerikanische Sprachmodelle.", "start": 356.12, "end": 371.505}], "start": 323.73, "end": 371.505, "num_words": 117.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Man hofft jetzt, dass man Misstrauen europ\u00e4isches Modell hat.", "start": 371.885, "end": 375.30002}, {"text": "Es gibt chinesische Modelle.", "start": 375.30002, "end": 376.76}, {"text": "Das hei\u00dft, dieser Block der Sprachmodelle, der ist eigentlich immer der gleiche oder es kommt 'n kleiner Es gibt einen kleinen Stamm von diesen Sprachmodellen, die immer wieder benutzt werden.", "start": 377.22, "end": 387.48}, {"text": "Und den m\u00f6chte man dann nat\u00fcrlich wieder, wie Mike gesagt hatte, nicht jetzt \u00fcbers Internet und offen und v\u00f6llig egal, wo das l\u00e4uft, sondern den m\u00f6chte man nat\u00fcrlich auch unter Kontrolle haben, Zusicherungen haben, dass das vertraulich behandelt wird, die Daten, die man r\u00fcber gibt und so weiter.", "start": 387.81497, "end": 404.31}], "start": 371.885, "end": 404.31, "num_words": 91.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Also das noch mal so klarzuziehen, es gibt ja einmal die Anwendung, l l 9 ist eine, ne?", "start": 404.31, "end": 409.19}, {"text": "Genau.", "start": 409.19, "end": 409.59}, {"text": "Und dann gibt's aber noch dahinterliegende Sprachmodell, das eben sowas wie GPT-4 von OpenAI, das kennen viele von ChatGPT.", "start": 409.59, "end": 417.165}, {"text": "So, das hei\u00dft, die spielen aber hier auch zusammen.", "start": 417.70502, "end": 419.80502}], "start": 404.31, "end": 419.80502, "num_words": 47.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Richtig, genau.", "start": 419.86502, "end": 420.745}, {"text": "Also die die Anwendung selber ist grafische Oberfl\u00e4che, handelt die Anmeldung, dass man sich das nur befugter auf diese Anwendung zugreifen k\u00f6nnen, speichern vielleicht was auch zum Beispiel f\u00fcr die Dokumentation und so weiter.", "start": 420.745, "end": 434.4}, {"text": "Und das unterscheidet sich jetzt nicht von 1 Standardverwaltungssoftware oder anderen Software.", "start": 434.4, "end": 440.79498}, {"text": "Der gro\u00dfe Funktionsblock, der jetzt hier neu ist und was das sozusagen spannend macht, weil das eine Kombination ist, ist halt ein gro\u00dfer Funktionsblock ist dieses Sprachmodell, was also dann angesprochen wird, was Ergebnisse zur\u00fcckliefert.", "start": 441.01498, "end": 454.74}, {"text": "Und da ist dann die Frage, wo l\u00e4uft es?", "start": 455.52, "end": 458.08002}], "start": 419.86502, "end": 458.08002, "num_words": 92.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Welches Modell ist es?", "start": 458.08002, "end": 459.44}, {"text": "Was kann ich davon erwarten?", "start": 459.44, "end": 460.56}, {"text": "Was kostet das?", "start": 460.56, "end": 461.44}, {"text": "Und so weiter.", "start": 461.44, "end": 462.08002}, {"text": "Mhm.", "start": 462.08002, "end": 462.58002}], "start": 458.08002, "end": 462.58002, "num_words": 16.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Nun sagt ja aber Maike gerade, ob Datenschutz spielt auch eine Rolle, also es geht ja auch sensible Daten von B\u00fcrger*innen.", "start": 462.8, "end": 468.145}, {"text": "Wenn jetzt aber das Sprachmodell hinter LL Moun in ein amerikanisches, n\u00e4mlich GPT4 ist, ne, also ist da nicht der Datenschutz ohnehin son bisschen kritisch auch bei diesen Eigenentwicklungen?", "start": 469.245, "end": 480.49}], "start": 462.8, "end": 480.49, "num_words": 50.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Nein, es gibt da unterschiedliche Abstufungen, sag ich mal, wie man dann Datenschutzaspekte ber\u00fccksichtigen kann.", "start": 481.59, "end": 487.13}, {"text": "Das Beste in der Hinsicht ist sicherlich, wenn das Modell selbst, 'n Umsourcen Modell lokal l\u00e4uft Und dann bleibt es auf den eigenen Servern Servern und hat wieder alle Aspekte selbst in der Hand und kann die entsprechend gestalten.", "start": 487.43, "end": 499.685}, {"text": "Und es gibt auch Zwischenschritte dabei, dass man halt \u00fcber die Benutzerschnittstelle sicherstellt, dass keine individualisierbaren Daten weitergegeben werden.", "start": 499.685, "end": 507.54498}, {"text": "Also dass man keine Profilbildung von einzelnen Nutzenden einrichten kann, wie das ja bei, wenn ich das offen verwende und mich registriere da, dann w\u00e4re das ja eine M\u00f6glichkeit.", "start": 507.65, "end": 517.99}, {"text": "Und wenn man dann noch 'n bisschen in die Schulung investiert und daf\u00fcr sorgt, dass keine direkten Personendaten eingegeben werden, dann kann man relativ sicher sein, dass man f\u00fcr eher unkritische Anwendungen auch mit soner einfachen Oberfl\u00e4che schon sehr viel an diesem Problem adressieren kann.", "start": 518.29, "end": 533.445}], "start": 481.59, "end": 533.445, "num_words": 147.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Bleiben wir noch mal kurz bei L.", "start": 534.065, "end": 535.505}, {"text": "M.", "start": 535.505, "end": 535.665}, {"text": "9.", "start": 535.665, "end": 536.065}, {"text": "Das greift ja bereits auf die Parlamentsdatenbank von der Hamburger B\u00fcrgerschaft zur\u00fcck, aber eben noch sehr eingeschr\u00e4nkt.", "start": 536.065, "end": 542.41003}, {"text": "Wann kann die Anwendung wirklich so das gesamte Parlamentswissen anzapfen und das ganze Beh\u00f6rdenwissen vor allem?", "start": 542.87, "end": 548.41003}], "start": 534.065, "end": 548.41003, "num_words": 42.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Ja, das theoretisch geht es jetzt schon.", "start": 549.11005, "end": 552.375}, {"text": "Also von der das ist dann eine organisatorische Frage, wie stelle ich diese Daten bereit?", "start": 552.375, "end": 556.555}, {"text": "Vielleicht machen wir es eine 1 Nummer kleiner.", "start": 557.175, "end": 559.51495}, {"text": "Die Frage ist ja, ob diese Sprachmodelle, also was wir ja auch selber im Alltag kennen, ob zum Beispiel dieses Sprachmodell jetzt noch mal selber im im Web recherchiert und selber noch mal sucht im offenen Web, Ergebnisse kriegt und die f\u00fcr mich zusammenfasst.", "start": 559.975, "end": 576.56}, {"text": "Also das ist ja, was wir ja zum Beispiel bei der Google Suche, dieses kleine KI Result, was da oben kommt, also ne.", "start": 576.62, "end": 582.655}], "start": 549.11005, "end": 582.655, "num_words": 97.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Das ist ja heutzutage dann halt \u00fcblich, dass so das miteinander kombiniert wird.", "start": 582.655, "end": 587.315}, {"text": "Oder und das ist der andere gro\u00dfe Zweig, dass man sogenannte RAG Systeme, dass man dem einen speziellen Datensatz gibt, zum Beispiel interne Akten und so weiter und dann dieses Sprachmodell mit seinem gro\u00dfen, ich sag mal, Weltwissen in Anf\u00fchrungsstrichen sprechen kann mit einem, also die Frage versteht, eine Antwort formulieren kann, aber die Inhalte nur aus diesem Dokumentensatz kommen und dementsprechend dort dieses gro\u00dfe Problem der Halluzinationen, die wir ja beim KI kennen, dass man das halt reduziert.", "start": 587.855, "end": 627.01996}], "start": 582.655, "end": 627.01996, "num_words": 92.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Sprechen wir mal \u00fcber die Vorstudie, die ihr ja sozusagen angesto\u00dfen habt.", "start": 629.0, "end": 632.6}, {"text": "Da geht's ja die Kooperation bei der Entwicklung solcher KI Tools.", "start": 632.6, "end": 636.77997}, {"text": "Viele Beh\u00f6rden, die kochen ihr eigenes S\u00fcppchen und entwickeln Tools unabh\u00e4ngig voneinander.", "start": 636.965, "end": 641.625}, {"text": "Bei L.", "start": 641.925, "end": 642.405}, {"text": "Moin, da ist das anders.", "start": 642.405, "end": 643.78503}], "start": 629.0, "end": 643.78503, "num_words": 42.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Die Frei- und Hansestadt Hamburg, die bietet auch anderen Verwaltungen an, den KI Assistenten zu nutzen.", "start": 643.84503, "end": 649.125}, {"text": "Wie genau funktioniert dieses Modell?", "start": 649.125, "end": 650.985}], "start": 643.84503, "end": 650.985, "num_words": 21.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Dass Verwaltung gerne ihr eigenes S\u00fcppchen kochen, da bin ich v\u00f6llig einverstanden, das passiert oft.", "start": 653.01996, "end": 659.12}, {"text": "Ich glaube hier an dieser Stelle aber ist der Punkt, dass KI so ein neues Thema ist, dass nat\u00fcrlich alle erst mal ausprobieren wollen, was geht da eigentlich?", "start": 659.66, "end": 668.935}, {"text": "Und wenn man sich dann und die auch diese Vorteile nutzen m\u00f6chte und wenn man da warten w\u00fcrde und geruhsam erst mal sagt, was wollen wir eigentlich haben?", "start": 669.075, "end": 677.475}, {"text": "Wie einigen wir uns und so weiter?", "start": 677.475, "end": 679.26}, {"text": "Das w\u00e4re hier, glaube ich, nicht m\u00f6glich gewesen angesichts der rasant der Entwicklung, die wir ja bis ins Private sp\u00fcren, die Nutzung von Chatmodellen.", "start": 679.5, "end": 688.0}], "start": 653.01996, "end": 688.0, "num_words": 102.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Wenn ich da noch ganz kurz einen draufsetzen darf, es ist doch eigentlich 'n sehr positives Zeichen, dass die Verwaltung sich so schnell bewegt in diesem Umfeld und dass es wirklich versucht, diese Chancen zu nutzen.", "start": 688.14, "end": 698.375}, {"text": "Also erst mal ist es sehr positiv, dass so viel Aktivit\u00e4t vorherrscht.", "start": 698.375, "end": 701.755}], "start": 688.14, "end": 701.755, "num_words": 48.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Gut, aber dann stellt man nat\u00fcrlich fest, Du hattest diese verschiedenen Sachen, BR GPT in Berlin oder All Gute oder LL Moin.", "start": 702.055, "end": 712.93}, {"text": "Es war eine der ersten Handlungsempfehlungen, die mir einfiel, w\u00e4re keine Sprachspiele mehr mit mit KI.", "start": 713.55, "end": 720.82495}, {"text": "Dass man also sagt, okay, da da sind die Anwendungen doch eigentlich gar nicht so unterschiedlich, sondern es ist immer dieses Formulieren von Texten, \u00dcbersetzen und so weiter.", "start": 722.96497, "end": 733.6}, {"text": "Und da kann man sich nat\u00fcrlich jetzt schon \u00fcberlegen, wie kann man da zusammenarbeiten?", "start": 733.6, "end": 737.54}, {"text": "Was kann man da gemeinsam machen?", "start": 737.68, "end": 739.04}], "start": 702.055, "end": 739.04, "num_words": 86.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Und genau das hat Hamburg ja gemacht", "start": 739.04, "end": 740.56}], "start": 739.04, "end": 740.56, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Also genau das hat Hamburg im neuen.", "start": 740.72, "end": 742.16}], "start": 740.72, "end": 742.16, "num_words": 7.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Das wird eben zur Verf\u00fcgung gestellt, auch f\u00fcr andere Verwaltungen.", "start": 742.16, "end": 744.64}, {"text": "Genau.", "start": 744.64, "end": 744.8}], "start": 742.16, "end": 744.8, "num_words": 11.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Das ist", "start": 744.8, "end": 745.12}], "start": 744.8, "end": 745.12, "num_words": 2.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "ja so ein Weg, den ihr auch beschreibt, die die Verwaltung gehen k\u00f6nnen.", "start": 745.12, "end": 748.425}], "start": 745.12, "end": 748.425, "num_words": 13.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Richtig und da muss man jetzt noch den Dienstleister dazu nehmen.", "start": 748.425, "end": 752.26495}, {"text": "Also das L9 ist aufgebaut eben auf Initiative von Hamburg, aber mit dem IT Dienstleister Datapau zusammen.", "start": 752.26495, "end": 760.76495}, {"text": "Dieses Angebot selbst, was jetzt zum Beispiel andere Kommunen, andere St\u00e4dte benutzen k\u00f6nnten, das bekommen sie dann von Dataport, also als als Dienstleister, der das anbietet f\u00fcr eine neue Community, die es auch nutzen m\u00f6chte.", "start": 760.94, "end": 774.38}, {"text": "Und die kann da den Buch Also diesen Dienst einfach buchen, bekommt noch und da f\u00e4ngt das eben schon an mit der Zusammenarbeit.", "start": 774.38, "end": 781.335}, {"text": "Die bekommt dann noch zum Beispiel Dokumente und Schulungsmaterial, was in Hamburg entwickelt wurde.", "start": 781.47504, "end": 787.015}], "start": 748.425, "end": 787.015, "num_words": 100.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Das bekommen die schon mal, damit die einfach schneller starten k\u00f6nnen und sagen k\u00f6nnen, okay, also so starten k\u00f6nnen und sagen k\u00f6nnen, okay, also so allgemeines Wissen KI, was also alle Mitarbeitenden in der \u00f6ffentlichen Verwaltung m\u00fcssen so ganz kurz eingewiesen werden in die Nutzung der KI.", "start": 787.075, "end": 801.13}, {"text": "Und dieses Schulungsmaterial, das kann man nat\u00fcrlich universell verwenden.", "start": 801.35004, "end": 804.73}, {"text": "Und Du hattest es angesprochen, wenn dann gesagt wird, okay, wir wollen jetzt die Parlamentsdaten da verarbeiten, dann muss nat\u00fcrlich in 'ner anderen Stadt ein anderer Datensatz rein.", "start": 804.945, "end": 816.405}, {"text": "Aber so f\u00e4ngt das an, dass man sagen kann, okay, man kann zusammenarbeiten, man kann Vorarbeiten nutzen.", "start": 816.705, "end": 822.21}], "start": 787.075, "end": 822.21, "num_words": 101.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Niedersachsen ist tats\u00e4chlich genau darauf angesprungen.", "start": 823.55, "end": 825.87}, {"text": "Die nieders\u00e4chsische Verwaltung, die hat l l mhoin implementiert sozusagen in die eigene IT Infrastruktur.", "start": 825.87, "end": 831.89}, {"text": "Das mhoin, das passt ja nach Niedersachsen auch ganz gut, w\u00fcrde ich sagen.", "start": 832.03, "end": 834.93}, {"text": "Wenn wir uns jetzt mal anschauen, was die Vorteile sind, es ist halt wahnsinnig schnell, ne?", "start": 835.55, "end": 839.20496}, {"text": "Also man kann auf bestehende Strukturen aufbauen, man kann sie sogar \u00fcbernehmen.", "start": 839.20496, "end": 843.225}], "start": 823.55, "end": 843.225, "num_words": 62.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Der Betreiber DataPort, der verspricht innerhalb von 6 Wochen.", "start": 843.365, "end": 846.58496}, {"text": "Da lie\u00dfe sich LL Moin woanders implementieren.", "start": 846.64496, "end": 849.305}, {"text": "Mike hat aber wahrscheinlich auch 'n paar Nachteile, oder?", "start": 850.23, "end": 852.95}, {"text": "Also wie ich's das verstanden hab, l\u00e4sst sich das Tool ja nur schlecht individuell anpassen.", "start": 852.95, "end": 857.45}], "start": 843.365, "end": 857.45, "num_words": 40.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Oh, da m\u00fcsste ich jetzt DataPort fragen, die werden das wahrscheinlich anders sehen.", "start": 859.43, "end": 862.55}, {"text": "Nein, aber genau da ist ist nat\u00fcrlich die Krux.", "start": 862.55, "end": 865.005}, {"text": "Es gibt ja ganz unterschiedliche Art und Weisen, wie ich dann meine Softwarel\u00f6sung zur Verf\u00fcgung stellen kann.", "start": 865.005, "end": 869.745}, {"text": "Und bei LL9 ist es tats\u00e4chlich eine Variante, die enorme Vorteile bringt, weil es schnell geht, weil noch weitere Dokumente mitgeliefert werden, also der der gesamte Bereich abgedeckt wird, der erforderlich ist.", "start": 870.20496, "end": 881.99}, {"text": "Hat aber dann genau dann auf der anderen Seite das Problem, dass ich's nat\u00fcrlich nicht allzu tief selbst gestalten kann in dem System selbst oder in der Anwendung selbst.", "start": 882.93, "end": 891.82996}], "start": 859.43, "end": 891.82996, "num_words": 100.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Da sind andere gehen 'n ganz anderen Weg.", "start": 893.29504, "end": 896.815}, {"text": "F 13 zum Beispiel, das halt komplett Open Source gestellt ist, wo ich theoretisch die Software nehmen kann und sie bei mir selbst einrichten kann.", "start": 896.815, "end": 905.1}], "start": 893.29504, "end": 905.1, "num_words": 33.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "F 13, das ist das Beispiel aus Baden W\u00fcrttemberg.", "start": 905.18, "end": 907.1}, {"text": "Die machen's nun wirklich eben, wie Du sagst, ganz anders, ne?", "start": 907.1, "end": 909.66}], "start": 905.18, "end": 909.66, "num_words": 20.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Genau.", "start": 909.66, "end": 910.16}, {"text": "Und das hat halt beides so seine Vor- und Nachteile.", "start": 910.22, "end": 912.45996}, {"text": "Das eine halt geht schnell, ist vergleichsweise einfach.", "start": 912.45996, "end": 914.94}, {"text": "Das andere ist nat\u00fcrlich sehr viel komplexer, muss ich sehr viel mehr an Expertise mitbringen und auch sehr viel mehr selbst aufbauen und die ganzen Compliance Sachen mehr oder minder selbst entwickeln.", "start": 914.94, "end": 925.53503}, {"text": "Daf\u00fcr hab ich die Gestaltung wieder sehr stark in der Hand.", "start": 926.395, "end": 929.775}], "start": 909.66, "end": 929.775, "num_words": 62.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Also ein Tod muss ich sterben.", "start": 929.835, "end": 932.41504}], "start": 929.835, "end": 932.41504, "num_words": 6.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Ja, vielleicht das noch mal diese Compliance m\u00f6cht ich noch mal unterst\u00fctzen.", "start": 933.12994, "end": 936.17}, {"text": "Das, aber Sie haben auch mit Anwendern gesprochen und die KI Tool im, so KI Tools im Verwaltungskontext richtig zu benutzen, Datenschutz einzubinden und KI Verordnung zu ber\u00fccksichtigen und so weiter, das ist halt 'n gro\u00dfes Thema.", "start": 936.17, "end": 953.70496}, {"text": "Also neue Verwaltungsverfahren einzuf\u00fchren, meistens \u00fcber 'n Dienstleister und so weiter, ist sowieso schon anstrengend und bei KI, aufgrund der Cloud Verarbeitung und so weiter, kommen da noch 'n paar Schippen drauf.", "start": 953.70496, "end": 968.89}, {"text": "Und deshalb ist es nicht so sehr eine technische Frage eigentlich in der Komplexit\u00e4t, sondern es ist wirklich eher eine organisatorische Frage und ja.", "start": 969.51, "end": 978.975}, {"text": "Und dann muss man eben gucken und wo kann ich schneiden?", "start": 978.975, "end": 981.695}], "start": 933.12994, "end": 981.695, "num_words": 116.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Wie kann Was kann ich schon bekommen und was kann ich denn f\u00fcr meine eigenen Bed\u00fcrfnisse anpassen?", "start": 981.695, "end": 988.28}, {"text": "Und da sag ich mal, da gibt es 2 Seiten, 'n Logo neu reinzubringen von der von der Stadt, von der Gemeinde oder so was.", "start": 988.5, "end": 996.26}, {"text": "Das ist \u00fcberhaupt kein Thema, das ist \u00fcberall vorgesehen.", "start": 996.26, "end": 998.68005}, {"text": "Die Frage ist zum Beispiel, ob man das Sprachmodell auswechseln kann, wenn man da Bedarf dran hat.", "start": 999.065, "end": 1004.125}, {"text": "Und da ist dann halt El Moyn eher eingeschr\u00e4nkt oder man m\u00fcsste gucken, kann man da was machen, dann ist der Aufwand wieder gr\u00f6\u00dfer oder man nimmt so das Paket, wie es funktioniert.", "start": 1004.745, "end": 1014.52496}], "start": 981.695, "end": 1014.52496, "num_words": 101.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Neues Logo rein, kleiner Hinweis an die Mitarbeiter und also lokaler Hinweis an die Mitarbeiter und dann los geht's in kurzer Zeit einsatzbereit.", "start": 1015.5, "end": 1024.48}], "start": 1015.5, "end": 1024.48, "num_words": 23.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Und bei F 13, also der Open Source L\u00f6sung, da k\u00f6nnte ich tats\u00e4chlich im Hintergrund am Sprachmodell noch mal etwas drehen und schrauben.", "start": 1024.78, "end": 1031.055}, {"text": "Da muss ich", "start": 1031.1951, "end": 1031.755}], "start": 1024.78, "end": 1031.755, "num_words": 26.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "sogar am Sprachmodell drehen und schrauben.", "start": 1031.755, "end": 1034.0951}, {"text": "Bei diesen L\u00f6sungen, da ist das Sprachmodell eben nicht dabei, sondern es ist vorbereitet, dass ich 'n Sprachmodell einbinde.", "start": 1034.395, "end": 1040.175}, {"text": "Und dann fange ich an und lade mir also diese Software runter, installier die bei mir.", "start": 1040.555, "end": 1045.3799}, {"text": "Das ist, wie gesagt, ganz normaler IT Technik.", "start": 1045.3799, "end": 1048.12}, {"text": "Das muss dann irgendwo laufen in irgendeinem sicheren Rechenzentrum und so weiter.", "start": 1048.2599, "end": 1051.96}], "start": 1031.755, "end": 1051.96, "num_words": 61.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Dann muss ich wissen, welche Klasse von Daten ich verarbeite.", "start": 1052.2599, "end": 1055.0}, {"text": "VSNFT zum Beispiel, Verschlusssache nur f\u00fcr Dienstgebrauch, also die leichteste Geheimhaltungsstufe.", "start": 1055.62, "end": 1061.615}, {"text": "Wenn ich so was verarbeiten m\u00f6chte oder personenbezogene Daten, dann muss ich nat\u00fcrlich da bei der Verarbeitung drauf achten.", "start": 1062.795, "end": 1068.795}, {"text": "So, das ist die eine Seite.", "start": 1068.795, "end": 1070.0751}, {"text": "Und dann kommt die Auswahl, welches Sprachmodell binde ich an?", "start": 1070.0751, "end": 1073.85}], "start": 1052.2599, "end": 1073.85, "num_words": 56.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Wo l\u00e4uft das?", "start": 1074.01, "end": 1074.89}, {"text": "L\u00e4uft das bei mir auch im Rechenzentrum?", "start": 1074.89, "end": 1076.59}, {"text": "Dann brauch ich ziemlich viel Hardware, also diese ber\u00fchmten Grafikkarten.", "start": 1077.37, "end": 1081.5499}, {"text": "Oder miete ich mir das auch?", "start": 1082.09, "end": 1084.1699}, {"text": "Binde ich mich irgendwo an?", "start": 1084.1699, "end": 1085.53}], "start": 1074.01, "end": 1085.53, "num_words": 31.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Dann kostet mich das laufende Kosten.", "start": 1085.53, "end": 1088.59}, {"text": "Was kostet das \u00fcberhaupt?", "start": 1088.825, "end": 1090.125}, {"text": "Bis zu diesen sehr interessanten Modellen, dass man sagt, okay, am Arbeitsplatz sitz ich sitzt immer der gleiche Mensch, hat die gleiche Oberfl\u00e4che.", "start": 1090.665, "end": 1099.165}, {"text": "Aber je nachdem, was f\u00fcr Daten eingegeben werden, wird es mal von dem einen Modell beantwortet, n\u00e4mlich im preiswerten \u00f6ffentlichen Modell, wo auch keine wo man ruhig sensible Daten hinschicken kann.", "start": 1099.225, "end": 1110.86}, {"text": "Wenn ich jetzt aber f\u00fcr eine andere Anwendung speziellere Daten habe, dann wird es in ein eigenes Rechenzentrum geroutet und dort vertraulich behandelt.", "start": 1110.9199, "end": 1121.4149}], "start": 1085.53, "end": 1121.4149, "num_words": 87.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Ich k\u00f6nnte mir vorstellen, wenn wir jetzt \u00fcber die \u00f6ffentliche Verwaltung sprechen, dass unterm Strich auch die Kosten ganz interessant sind.", "start": 1122.595, "end": 1128.27}, {"text": "Wie ist es denn bei den beiden Wegen, die ihr nur skizziert habt?", "start": 1128.67, "end": 1131.23}, {"text": "Ne, der eine Weg, ich hab sozusagen ein Modell, das fertig auf den Servern liegt, das noch mal ein bisschen umdesignt wird, aber dann ist es schon da und das andere Open Source, ich kann's mir runterladen, muss es aber komplett neu entwickeln.", "start": 1131.23, "end": 1141.97}, {"text": "Was ist der preiswertere Weg?", "start": 1142.03, "end": 1143.81}], "start": 1122.595, "end": 1143.81, "num_words": 82.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Na, das kann man so Also \u00fcber Preise spricht da keiner und das kann man Das ist wirklich sehr schwierig, vor allen Dingen auch, weil das ja Kontingente sind und so weiter.", "start": 1144.885, "end": 1155.385}, {"text": "Sondern es ist so eher sozusagen diese Was interessant ist, sind die verschiedenen Mechanismen, die man da drin hat.", "start": 1155.445, "end": 1162.95}, {"text": "Also zum Beispiel, wenn man f\u00fcr die Bundesverwaltung Das wird \u00fcber das Projekt zum Beispiel Keepitz gemacht und dort alle \u00c4mter, alle Beh\u00f6rden, die dort sozusagen einsteigen, die teilen sich 'n Hardwarepool in dem Rechenzentrum des des Bundes.", "start": 1162.95, "end": 1182.095}, {"text": "Und das ist nat\u00fcrlich eine interessante Idee, wenn man sagt, okay, wir haben mal dann Spitzen und die anderen haben woanders Spitzen.", "start": 1182.155, "end": 1189.53}, {"text": "Das hei\u00dft, man steigt also ein mit seinem Bedarf, aber kann dann noch zum Beispiel Spitzen durch eine gemeinsame Verarbeitung abfedern.", "start": 1189.53, "end": 1197.87}], "start": 1144.885, "end": 1197.87, "num_words": 132.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Oder aber man sagt, okay, ich such mir jetzt das allerbilligste Sprachmodell raus.", "start": 1199.135, "end": 1203.5349}, {"text": "Es geht \u00fcbrigens so weit, ich wei\u00df nicht, ob Du das wei\u00dft, Mike, dass eine Stadt durchaus sagt, ach, wir k\u00f6nnen auch 'n chinesisches Sprachmodell nehmen.", "start": 1203.5349, "end": 1211.715}, {"text": "Das blenden lassen wir bei uns im Keller laufen.", "start": 1212.2599, "end": 1215.32}, {"text": "Und da geht ja nix rein und nix raus, dann nehmen wir dieses chinesische Modell und ist auch sicher f\u00fcr diesen Fall, nicht.", "start": 1216.1, "end": 1223.7799}, {"text": "Und dann gibt's wieder andere, Polizei Baden W\u00fcrttemberg, die sagt, ja, aber das ist ja auch gef\u00e4hrlich.", "start": 1223.7799, "end": 1231.685}], "start": 1199.135, "end": 1231.685, "num_words": 88.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Wir sind ja abh\u00e4ngig von solchen von solcher IT, gar nicht mal so sehr vom Sprach und der aber von der IT.", "start": 1231.905, "end": 1237.4451}, {"text": "Wir wollen diese IT Entwicklung nutzen, \u00fcberhaupt in die Cloud zu gehen, also nicht mehr im lokalen Rechenzentrum im eigenen Keller zu sein, sondern zu sagen, wir gehen jetzt in eine sichere Cloud, wo auch 'n anderer Anbieter vielleicht in Konkurrenz sein kann oder wo ich eine Back-up und eine Redundanz habe.", "start": 1237.745, "end": 1255.955}, {"text": "Und in diesem Umfeld, in diesem riesengro\u00dfen Umfeld muss ich halt mich orientieren, was f\u00fcr mich und meine Anwendung am besten ist.", "start": 1256.655, "end": 1264.86}], "start": 1231.905, "end": 1264.86, "num_words": 96.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "F\u00fcr die Kosten sind da nat\u00fcrlich unendlich viele Stellgr\u00f6\u00dfen drin, wie wir Ja.", "start": 1265.1, "end": 1269.1}, {"text": "Wie Jens ja grade auch schon beschrieben hat.", "start": 1269.1799, "end": 1270.88}, {"text": "Und ich denke, der gr\u00f6\u00dfte die gr\u00f6\u00dfte oder der gr\u00f6\u00dfte entscheidende Faktor f\u00fcr die Kosten ist tats\u00e4chlich, was hab ich da f\u00fcr eine Anwendung?", "start": 1270.94, "end": 1277.1}, {"text": "Ja.", "start": 1277.1, "end": 1277.34}, {"text": "Wenn ich damit noch eine Cloud Infrastruktur irgendwo nutzen kann, dann ist es im Zweifel immer deutlich billiger, als wenn ich im gesch\u00fctzten Rechenzentrum hochsensible Daten verarbeite.", "start": 1277.34, "end": 1287.6849}], "start": 1265.1, "end": 1287.6849, "num_words": 73.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Und dann geht's noch weiter, dass man wirklich sagt, okay, das waren jetzt die Kosten, aber es h\u00e4ngt ja mit der Funktion zusammen.", "start": 1288.065, "end": 1295.28}, {"text": "Also, dass ich die Sprachmodelle, die sind ja auch sehr unterschiedlich gro\u00df.", "start": 1295.28, "end": 1298.8201}, {"text": "Und dann ist ja Ich muss ja nicht immer das allergr\u00f6\u00dfte Sprachmodell nutzen, immer wieder Kleckerkramfragen zu beantworten.", "start": 1299.12, "end": 1305.86}, {"text": "So.", "start": 1306.0801, "end": 1306.5801}, {"text": "Daf\u00fcr gibt's nat\u00fcrlich Antworten von den Sprachmodellherstellern, von den Anbietern und also ganz verschiedene Ans\u00e4tze, wie das gemacht wird.", "start": 1306.765, "end": 1316.145}], "start": 1288.065, "end": 1316.145, "num_words": 73.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Und von den Anbietern selbst ist es dann so, dass zum Beispiel in der Preisliste drinsteht, was kosten Input Tokens?", "start": 1316.6849, "end": 1324.05}, {"text": "Also Token ist so die kleinste Einheit bei Sprachmodellen, also vergleichbar mit Silben oder W\u00f6rtern.", "start": 1324.1101, "end": 1329.65}, {"text": "Was kosten Input Tokens?", "start": 1331.55, "end": 1333.17}, {"text": "Nat\u00fcrlich immer im Millionenbereich.", "start": 1333.31, "end": 1334.6901}, {"text": "Und was kosten Output Tokens?", "start": 1335.785, "end": 1337.3049}], "start": 1316.6849, "end": 1337.3049, "num_words": 48.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Und das ist durchaus unterschiedlich.", "start": 1337.3049, "end": 1338.665}, {"text": "Was kostet die Speicherung?", "start": 1338.665, "end": 1339.725}, {"text": "Vielleicht eine Grundgeb\u00fchr Ja.", "start": 1340.105, "end": 1341.385}, {"text": "Und so weiter.", "start": 1341.465, "end": 1342.025}, {"text": "Und da muss man dann wirklich sagen, welche Anwendung habe ich?", "start": 1342.025, "end": 1344.845}], "start": 1337.3049, "end": 1344.845, "num_words": 27.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Schicke ich eher Text hin?", "start": 1344.905, "end": 1346.445}, {"text": "Krieg ich eher Text zur\u00fcck In meinem Mix ist die kann ich 'n einfaches Sprachmodell nutzen, was billiger ist?", "start": 1346.585, "end": 1354.03}, {"text": "Oder muss ich was Komplexes haben?", "start": 1354.03, "end": 1355.89}], "start": 1344.905, "end": 1355.89, "num_words": 30.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Wenn wir jetzt mal so von den Kosten weggehen, Jens, ich hab dich aber trotzdem jetzt auch so verstanden, dass es keinen K\u00f6nigsweg gibt in der Verwaltung, sondern auch hier gilt so der Lieblingsspruch 1 jeden Rechtsanwalts.", "start": 1356.51, "end": 1366.725}, {"text": "Es kommt darauf an, ne, n\u00e4mlich wof\u00fcr brauch ich da Sprachmodell \u00fcberhaupt?", "start": 1366.725, "end": 1370.485}, {"text": "Mike, w\u00fcrdest Du's \u00e4hnlich sehen?", "start": 1370.485, "end": 1371.9249}], "start": 1356.51, "end": 1371.9249, "num_words": 54.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Ja, absolut.", "start": 1371.9249, "end": 1372.725}, {"text": "Voll und ganz, das ist eigentlich mein Lieblingsspruch.", "start": 1372.725, "end": 1374.245}, {"text": "Ich bin irritiert, dass Du den bringst.", "start": 1374.245, "end": 1375.7849}, {"text": "Nein, wir haben's ja schon skizziert, also es kommt wirklich ganz genau darauf an, einerseits, welche Daten verwende ich, welche Daten verarbeite ich, andererseits, was ist die Anwendung, was muss will ich damit erreichen?", "start": 1376.75, "end": 1386.53}, {"text": "Und danach orientiert sich dann die die Architektur und dann irgendwann auch die Kosten.", "start": 1386.8301, "end": 1392.765}], "start": 1371.9249, "end": 1392.765, "num_words": 65.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Schauen wir uns zum Schluss mal Strategien f\u00fcr die Vernetzung an.", "start": 1395.385, "end": 1398.845}, {"text": "Warum f\u00e4llt's am Ende so schwer dennoch, sich auf zumindest einen Weg zu einigen?", "start": 1399.7051, "end": 1405.21}, {"text": "Denn ich k\u00f6nnte mir vorstellen, dass wenn man, selbst wenn man verschiedene Anspr\u00fcche hat, dass es trotzdem ja doch eigentlich mehr Synergien schafft, wenn man gemeinsam an einem Strang zieht und sich erst mal auf ein Grundmodell einigt und das dann an verschiedene Stellen ausspielt.", "start": 1405.21, "end": 1418.755}, {"text": "Wie seht ihr hier die M\u00f6glichkeiten noch zu 1 engeren Kooperation in Zukunft?", "start": 1420.1749, "end": 1424.275}], "start": 1395.385, "end": 1424.275, "num_words": 83.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Ich denke, der Weg ist vorgezeichnet und da ist durchaus auch Interesse dran.", "start": 1425.0549, "end": 1429.235}, {"text": "Es ist traditionell im F\u00f6deralismus in Deutschland nicht so, dass man sagt, okay, wir haben jetzt eine L\u00f6sung, die f\u00fcr alle funktioniert, aber man kann schon sagen, okay, wir konzentrieren uns 'n bisschen auf 'n paar L\u00f6sungen, die jetzt auch sozusagen dieses weite Feld, was wir aufgemacht haben, son bisschen abdecken, vielleicht dort auch eine gewisse Konvergenz stattfindet, dass also zum Beispiel Anwendungen, die jetzt nur ein Sprachmodell haben oder die vorher noch nicht diese das den Bedarf gehabt haben, dass die dann zum Beispiel weitere Sprachmodelle anbinden auf Es ist ja auch 'n Entwicklungseinfeld, was sich jetzt auch rasend schnell au\u00dferhalb der Verwaltung weiterentwickelt.", "start": 1429.5599, "end": 1468.1001}, {"text": "Und ja, und da sehen wir eben 2 Schnittstellen, nat\u00fcrliche Schnittstellen in Anf\u00fchrungsstrichen, die sich anbieten und wo auch demn\u00e4chst Also wo auch die 1.", "start": 1469.28, "end": 1479.385}, {"text": "Zusammenarbeit schon funktioniert.", "start": 1479.385, "end": 1480.6849}, {"text": "Und das ist das 1.", "start": 1481.225, "end": 1482.345}], "start": 1425.0549, "end": 1482.345, "num_words": 151.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Ist eben das von mir schon erw\u00e4hnte \u00fcberhaupt 'n Sprachmodell anzubinden mit den verschiedenen Preismodellen, mit den verschiedenen F\u00e4higkeiten.", "start": 1482.585, "end": 1489.03}, {"text": "Das ist eine nat\u00fcrliche Schnittstelle und eine andere Schnittstelle ist aus 'ner technischen Perspektive die die KI Anwendung, also der innere Bereich sozusagen.", "start": 1489.03, "end": 1502.1849}, {"text": "Will ich jetzt chatten?", "start": 1502.325, "end": 1503.545}, {"text": "Also nicht die grafische Oberfl\u00e4che, sondern sozusagen da drin die Frage, ich m\u00f6chte chatten oder ich m\u00f6chte Daten zusammenfassen und so weiter.", "start": 1503.925, "end": 1514.68}, {"text": "Und f\u00fcr solche KI Anwendungen, die jetzt den Kern ausmacht, dort muss man auch ein kleines, wie soll ich sagen, kleines Ger\u00fcst stricken, eine Orchestrierung, wie diese verschiedenen IT Komponenten nacheinander benutzt werden sollen.", "start": 1514.68, "end": 1526.655}], "start": 1482.585, "end": 1526.655, "num_words": 102.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Also zum Beispiel greife auf die auf eine Datenbank zu, wo die Parlamentsdaten sind, 'n Prompt zu schreiben, was damit passieren soll und wieder auszugeben, vielleicht Filterungen und so weiter.", "start": 1526.655, "end": 1538.495}, {"text": "Und das diese dieser engere Kreis, dieser KI Anwendung, die wird man demn\u00e4chst auch austauschen k\u00f6nnen zwischen diesen verschiedenen L\u00f6sungen.", "start": 1538.495, "end": 1546.72}, {"text": "Und die l\u00e4sst sich aus technischer Perspektive auch relativ einfach isolieren, weil dann doch trotz einiger Varianten diese Verwaltungs KI doch relativ \u00e4hnlich aufgebaut ist jeweils.", "start": 1546.86, "end": 1562.245}], "start": 1526.655, "end": 1562.245, "num_words": 76.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Jetzt taucht ja auch einen Begriff in eurer Vorstudie auf, n\u00e4mlich dir der Referenzarchitektur.", "start": 1562.705, "end": 1566.165}, {"text": "So, ich stell mir das jetzt son bisschen vor wie son Legobaukasten und jede Verwaltung pickt sich so die Legosteine raus, ne, bestimmte Anfragen, bestimmte Auswertung und baut sich ein System zusammen.", "start": 1567.64, "end": 1577.64}, {"text": "Maik, geht das so einfach, wie ich mir das grade vorstelle oder ist das dann doch 'n bisschen komplexer?", "start": 1577.64, "end": 1581.3401}], "start": 1562.705, "end": 1581.3401, "num_words": 65.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Das ist 1 der Lieblingspassagen in der Studie von mir.", "start": 1582.6549, "end": 1585.635}, {"text": "Hinten die Ursprungsmodelle, die die einzelnen L\u00f6sungen dann aufgebaut haben.", "start": 1585.695, "end": 1590.815}, {"text": "Wie unterschiedlich, was f\u00fcr 'n breites Spektrum man da sieht.", "start": 1590.815, "end": 1594.195}, {"text": "Ist ja auch eine Leistung dieser Studie, das dann halt zusammenzuf\u00fchren und einen Vorschlag zu machen, wie so eine Rahmengrob Architektur aussehen k\u00f6nnte.", "start": 1594.4299, "end": 1603.01}, {"text": "Und wenn man die hat, dann und eine gemeinsame Sprache hat, dann kann man genau da hingehen und zu so einem Legobaukasten kommen.", "start": 1603.47, "end": 1610.115}], "start": 1582.6549, "end": 1610.115, "num_words": 76.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Und da hat Jens ja auch schon die ersten ersten Schritte oder die die absehbaren Schritte, muss man ja sagen, weil auch das ist 'n wunderbares Ergebnis dieser Studie.", "start": 1610.995, "end": 1619.095}, {"text": "Alle Vorhaben denken ja in irgendeiner Form die Weiterverwendung immer mit.", "start": 1619.475, "end": 1624.73}, {"text": "Also ob sie dann ihre Plattform \u00f6ffnen f\u00fcr immer breitere Gruppen oder ob sie's Open Source stellen oder irgend eine Mischung dazwischen.", "start": 1624.73, "end": 1631.3099}, {"text": "Also das ist schon schon integraler Bestandteil von diesen Vorhaben, das immer mitzudenken.", "start": 1631.53, "end": 1636.085}, {"text": "Und halt sicherlich ein K\u00f6nigsweg ist genau diese Legobausteine dann aus so austauschbar zu machen, wie es eben geht und dann halt auch davon zu profitieren.", "start": 1636.465, "end": 1644.625}], "start": 1610.995, "end": 1644.625, "num_words": 101.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Und dann kann ich halt den Microservice, ist das richtig?", "start": 1644.625, "end": 1648.325}, {"text": "Ja.", "start": 1648.46, "end": 1648.86}, {"text": "Den Microservice aus Hessen nehmen und in Baden W\u00fcrttemberg einsetzen oder in Nordrhein Westfalen oder so und so.", "start": 1648.86, "end": 1654.8}], "start": 1644.625, "end": 1654.8, "num_words": 29.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Genau und ich m\u00f6chte noch mal den Bogen etwas gr\u00f6\u00dfer ziehen und zwar, wir haben ja den Deutschland Stack.", "start": 1654.9401, "end": 1661.2}, {"text": "Das ist ja eine gro\u00dfe Aktivit\u00e4t, die IT in Deutschland eben souver\u00e4ner aufzustellen, Konvergenz herzustellen zwischen L\u00f6sungen und dort, das ist sozusagen der gro\u00dfe Legobaukasten, den Du gerade angesprochen hast.", "start": 1661.425, "end": 1675.26}, {"text": "Dort gibt's also zum Beispiel oder wird es geben, dass dort zum Beispiel Datenbanken benannt sind als IT Baustein, ne, eine Datenbank.", "start": 1675.5, "end": 1683.4401}, {"text": "Und dann wird man nat\u00fcrlicherweise sagen, okay, meine KI Anwendung, die baue ich aus diesen Bausteinen, die im Deutschland Stack sind zusammen.", "start": 1683.8201, "end": 1693.985}, {"text": "Und dann sage ich okay und andererseits kann ich dann wieder sagen, ja, aber jetzt habe ich eine sch\u00f6ne funktionierende KI Anwendung, die eigentlich ganz gut funktioniert f\u00fcr diesen und jeden Zweck, die kann ich ja wieder dem Deutschland Stack als Gesamtes zur Verf\u00fcgung stellen und sagen, okay, wenn jetzt jemand anders was zusammenbasteln will, hier hast Du schon mal 90 Prozent oder so was und Du musst jetzt nur noch 'n paar kleinere \u00c4nderungen machen.", "start": 1694.7649, "end": 1718.825}], "start": 1654.9401, "end": 1718.825, "num_words": 169.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Und das ist so die Idee, dass sich sone Idee nat\u00fcrlich auch noch mal, also eine moderne IT L\u00f6sung, die cloudbasiert ist, die auch viel auf Open Source Komponenten besteht, die modular immer aufgebaut ist, auf Microservices beruht und offenen und Schnittstellen, dass die nat\u00fcrlich in sonem Stack eingeordnet werden kann und dann wirklich auch einl\u00e4dt dazu, Teile oder dies ganze System zu nutzen, weiterzuentwickeln.", "start": 1718.825, "end": 1746.01}], "start": 1718.825, "end": 1746.01, "num_words": 65.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Und das klingt ja so, als w\u00fcrde das auch wirklich Synergien schaffen.", "start": 1747.965, "end": 1750.525}], "start": 1747.965, "end": 1750.525, "num_words": 12.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Das schafft dann echte Synergien, weil da nat\u00fcrlich immer hinter steckt.", "start": 1750.525, "end": 1754.065}, {"text": "Kommen wir wieder zur\u00fcck zu diesen Fragen von IT Sicherheit, konform ins Datenschutz und so weiter.", "start": 1754.605, "end": 1761.005}, {"text": "Diese ganzen Compliance Themen und die sind wirklich superaufwendig, dass ich da mal jemanden hinsetze und Also das kann man heute im Studium lernen oder das wissen.", "start": 1761.005, "end": 1769.79}, {"text": "Da kriegt man IT Leute, die sone L\u00f6sung zusammenbauen k\u00f6nnen.", "start": 1770.3301, "end": 1773.77}, {"text": "Das ist kein Thema, aber die wirklich fachlich und sachgerecht wirklich einzusetzen, datenschutzkonform in der Verwaltung, da organisatorisch das aufzubauen, da steckt also sozusagen die Arbeit drin.", "start": 1773.77, "end": 1787.7351}], "start": 1750.525, "end": 1787.7351, "num_words": 91.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Und und das wird nat\u00fcrlich einfacher, wenn ich zusammenarbeite und wenn ich sage, okay, das muss ich mir nicht von Grund auf ausdenken, sondern irgendjemand hat schon eine Datenschekliste gemacht, die kann ich jetzt auch einfach abarbeiten oder die kriege ich schon dazu zu meiner L\u00f6sung, die ich da hole.", "start": 1787.9551, "end": 1803.48}, {"text": "Und das ist gar nicht so sehr die Technik Technik, die ich da haben will, sondern es ist vielleicht, weil das sowieso Open Source Projekte sind, sondern das ist vielleicht eher, dass jemand schon sich drum Gedanken gemacht hat, wie man das in diesem konkreten Kontext der Verwaltung diese Open Source Software einsetzen kann.", "start": 1803.54, "end": 1818.4551}, {"text": "Und das ist der Riesenvorteil.", "start": 1818.4551, "end": 1819.755}], "start": 1787.9551, "end": 1819.755, "num_words": 109.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Ich w\u00fcrde mit euch gern zum Schluss noch einen Blick in die Zukunft werfen.", "start": 1821.28, "end": 1824.74}, {"text": "KI L\u00f6sungen werden grad \u00fcberall diskutiert in jeder Branche, in jedem Zusammenhang und nat\u00fcrlich eben auch in der Verwaltung.", "start": 1825.4401, "end": 1831.6}, {"text": "Wenn wir jetzt mal so 10 Jahre in die Zukunft schauen, welche Rolle wird KI, werden KI Tools in der Verwaltung spielen?", "start": 1831.6, "end": 1837.395}, {"text": "Wird das ein Tool von vielen anderen oder eine Anwendung auch von vielen anderen sein oder wird sie wirklich zentral?", "start": 1837.395, "end": 1843.415}, {"text": "Mike, Du bist Trendforscher und Zukunftsforscher, Du darfst zuerst antworten.", "start": 1843.635, "end": 1846.615}], "start": 1821.28, "end": 1846.615, "num_words": 85.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Das hab ich bef\u00fcrchtet.", "start": 1846.915, "end": 1848.055}, {"text": "Bei meinem Pr\u00e4sentation zu KI behaupte ich tats\u00e4chlich, dass es dieser Halbzyklen gibt und dass man dann immer wieder zu dem Punkt kommt, wo es dann eine normale Anwendung wird.", "start": 1849.06, "end": 1857.22}, {"text": "Das l\u00e4sst sich ja in der Vergangenheit sehr sch\u00f6n beobachten.", "start": 1857.22, "end": 1860.04}, {"text": "Es wird sicherlich auch ein St\u00fcck weit so sein.", "start": 1860.5801, "end": 1862.9}, {"text": "Ich denke nur, dass in der aktuellen Entwicklung aus ganz verschiedenen Gr\u00fcnden die Bedeutung noch mal grade f\u00fcr die Verwaltung gr\u00f6\u00dfer ist.", "start": 1862.9, "end": 1871.315}], "start": 1846.915, "end": 1871.315, "num_words": 75.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "1 der zentralen Punkte ist, oder wie Jens ganz am Anfang gesagt, dass diese Tools mit Text umgehen k\u00f6nnen.", "start": 1871.315, "end": 1878.0549}, {"text": "Das das konnte KI immer schon irgendwie, aber jetzt so, dass man sich verstanden f\u00fchlt und dass man auch 'n echten Mehrwert daraus generieren kann, wenn man neue Texte in einfacher Sprache oder in was auch immer transformiert oder neu erzeugen l\u00e4sst.", "start": 1878.1699, "end": 1892.83}, {"text": "Und ich glaube, das ist dieser dieser andere Zugang und der andere Umgang mit den Tools, der die Verarbeitung in der Verwaltung deutlich erleichtert.", "start": 1893.215, "end": 1902.975}, {"text": "Das ist, glaub ich, wirklich 'n Asset, das bleiben wird und das auch einiges ver\u00e4ndern wird in der Verwaltung.", "start": 1902.975, "end": 1907.955}, {"text": "Wobei man auch dazu sagen muss, zumindest bei der aktuellen Anwendung von Sprachmodellen und auch bei dem, solange Halluzinationen und solche Probleme bleiben, kann man das ja nicht so also bescheiden damit schreiben zu lassen, k\u00f6nnte 'n bisschen riskant sein.", "start": 1908.9299, "end": 1923.585}], "start": 1871.315, "end": 1923.585, "num_words": 144.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Ich kann Sie dann vielleicht in einfache Sprache umformulieren lassen.", "start": 1923.585, "end": 1926.725}, {"text": "Aber immer da, wo ich dann halt eben rechtssichere und wirklich korrekte Aussagen brauche, sind sie vermutlich mal absehbar nicht zu gebrauchen.", "start": 1926.945, "end": 1936.4401}, {"text": "Und deswegen ist dieser Bereich der der gro\u00dfen Sprachmodelle, wo wir im Moment grade dr\u00fcber reden, wer wei\u00df, wor\u00fcber wir in 10 Jahren reden, aber wo wir im Moment grade dr\u00fcber reden, der Anwendungsbereich schon eingeschr\u00e4nkt und in erster Linie auch Fragen des Zugangs.", "start": 1936.98, "end": 1951.3049}, {"text": "Dahinter gibt es ganz viele andere Automatisierungs- und auch KI Fragen, die man noch l\u00f6sen k\u00f6nnte, wenn man an automatisierte oder proaktive Verwaltungsverfahren denkt, die dann halb bis ganz automatisiert durchlaufen.", "start": 1951.605, "end": 1964.745}, {"text": "Aber da sind wir dann ganz weit weg von Sprachmodellen.", "start": 1965.74, "end": 1967.84}], "start": 1923.585, "end": 1967.84, "num_words": 117.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Jens, die Zukunft der Sprachmodelle, was meinst Du?", "start": 1969.1, "end": 1971.6799}], "start": 1969.1, "end": 1971.6799, "num_words": 8.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Ja, da m\u00f6chte ich gleich anschlie\u00dfen und wir sind nicht so weit weg, denke ich, weil in der Verwaltung von Sprachmodellen, weil da kann man ja einen kleinen cleveren Zwischenschritt machen und das w\u00e4re auch mein Thema, was in 10 Jahren passiert in der Verwaltung.", "start": 1971.74, "end": 1984.745}, {"text": "Also der 1.", "start": 1985.445, "end": 1986.165}, {"text": "Teil ist klar, wir reden \u00fcber Sprachverarbeitung in Sprache formulieren Und was ich jetzt interessant finde, ist, ich komme aus dem Bereich, hab mir Low Code Systeme angeguckt, also in denen Nutzer, die nicht so viel Programmier- und Programmiererfahrung haben oder gar keine Programmiererfahrung haben, dass die also sozusagen Verwaltungsverfahren aufsetzen k\u00f6nnen.", "start": 1986.165, "end": 2010.325}, {"text": "Und an dieser Stelle kann ich also zum Beispiel schon KI einsetzen, wie man sie auch zum Programmieren von Also wie Programmierer auch Sprachmodelle einsetzen, Software zu schreiben.", "start": 2010.545, "end": 2020.885}, {"text": "Und was ich spannend finde jetzt in diesem in diesem Zusammenhang ist, dass man jetzt von sozusagen von Flie\u00dftext, von gesprochener Sprache sozusagen, dass man zu mehr formalisierten Sachen kommt und dass zum Beispiel ein Gesetz in einen Entscheidungsbaum umgesetzt wird.", "start": 2021.2999, "end": 2040.955}], "start": 1971.74, "end": 2040.955, "num_words": 169.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Das kann man auf der reinen Sprachebene machen.", "start": 2040.955, "end": 2043.2949}, {"text": "Dann muss man nat\u00fcrlich gucken und das ist Hat ja Mike zurecht gesagt Man muss dann nat\u00fcrlich gucken, ob das richtig ist.", "start": 2043.515, "end": 2049.39}, {"text": "Und aber hier besteht die gro\u00dfe Chance, dass man sozusagen einmal ein Gesetz in einen Entscheidungsbaum umsetzt.", "start": 2049.95, "end": 2056.13}, {"text": "Den kann man pr\u00fcfen, den kann man archivieren, dem kann man 'n Datum geben und sagen, an dem und ab dem und dem Zeitpunkt haben wir diesen Entscheidungsbaum angesetzt eingesetzt.", "start": 2056.3499, "end": 2067.665}, {"text": "Den haben jetzt nicht mehr Menschen zusammengebastelt, sondern den hat eine KI zusammengebastelt.", "start": 2067.665, "end": 2072.7249}], "start": 2040.955, "end": 2072.7249, "num_words": 90.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Menschen haben's gepr\u00fcft und ab da kann man wieder die klassischen regelbasierten Systeme einsetzen und sagen, okay, nach diesem Entscheidungsbaum ist 100 Prozent sicher, dass so und so viel Steuern gezahlt werden, ob's Wohngeld gibt oder was wei\u00df ich.", "start": 2073.025, "end": 2088.885}, {"text": "Und hier kann man dann die automatisierten Verfahren wieder einsetzen.", "start": 2088.885, "end": 2091.705}, {"text": "Und das Tolle ist halt dieses, dass man Sprachmodelle eben einsetzen kann, auch formalisierte Sprache, die L\u00fccke zwischen Computer und Mensch noch etwas zu schlie\u00dfen und sozusagen Menschen ein Werkzeug an die Hand zu geben, Computer leistungsf\u00e4higer zu programmieren.", "start": 2092.325, "end": 2112.21}], "start": 2073.025, "end": 2112.21, "num_words": 88.0, "speaker": 1}, {"sentences": [{"text": "V\u00f6llig d'accord, nur dann brauche ich halt wieder f\u00fcr die Automatisierung wohl definierte Daten, funktionierende Register, automatisch kommunizierende und deswegen mein etwas zur\u00fcckhaltende Antwort mit den 10 Jahren.", "start": 2113.555, "end": 2126.25}, {"text": "Also es liegt gar nicht so sehr im Bereich der KI und in in der technischen Umsetzung, da gibt es wunderbare neue M\u00f6glichkeiten, aber in der in den Hausaufgaben, in den Grundlagen, da k\u00f6nnte es noch schwierig werden oder schwierig bleiben.", "start": 2126.33, "end": 2137.95}], "start": 2113.555, "end": 2137.95, "num_words": 69.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Wie aber Menschen und Verwaltungen doch ganz gut auch mal zusammenarbeiten k\u00f6nnen und ja vielleicht auch gemeinsam in Vorleistung gehen k\u00f6nnen, damit's funktioniert mit der KI, das haben wir heute erfahren in Restart digital, dem Podcast des Kompetenzzentrums \u00f6ffentlicher IT.", "start": 2138.9048, "end": 2152.9248}, {"text": "Sch\u00f6nen Dank an Jens Tiemann und Doktor Mike Weber.", "start": 2153.14, "end": 2155.38}, {"text": "Sch\u00f6n, dass ihr hier wart.", "start": 2155.38, "end": 2156.44}], "start": 2138.9048, "end": 2156.44, "num_words": 54.0, "speaker": 0}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Danke dir.", "start": 2156.5, "end": 2157.3}, {"text": "Danke.", "start": 2157.3, "end": 2157.8}], "start": 2156.5, "end": 2157.8, "num_words": 3.0, "speaker": 2}, {"sentences": [{"text": "Falls euch der Podcast gefallen hat, folgt uns kostenfrei auf Spotify, Apple Podcasts und vielen weiteren Apps.", "start": 2158.18, "end": 2163.96}, {"text": "Und schreibt uns gern noch eine Bewertung, wenn ihr denn m\u00f6gt.", "start": 2164.02, "end": 2166.74}, {"text": "Tsch\u00fcs und bis bald.", "start": 2166.74, "end": 2167.7}, {"text": "Mein Name ist Philipp 1.", "start": 2167.7, "end": 2168.955}], "start": 2158.18, "end": 2168.955, "num_words": 37.0, "speaker": 0}]}, "entities": null, "translations": null, "topics": null}], "detected_language": ""}], "utterances": [{"start": 1.8399999, "end": 4.02, "confidence": 0.90794677, "channel": 0, "transcript": "In Berlin hei\u00dfen sie BRGPT,", "words": [{"word": "in", "start": 1.8399999, "end": 2.1599998, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "In", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.5095685}, {"word": "berlin", "start": 2.1599998, "end": 2.56, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Berlin", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.5095685}, {"word": "hei\u00dfen", "start": 2.56, "end": 2.8799999, "confidence": 0.9873047, "punctuated_word": "hei\u00dfen", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 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Ja, also Texte auswerten, Texte neu zusammenfassen auch wieder aus den ausgewerteten, das klingt auch so, als w\u00e4r das einfach wirklich effizienter, ne? 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Die Idee muss man nat\u00fcrlich selber mitbringen und das Denken kommt nat\u00fcrlich weiter von den Verwaltungsmitarbeitenden,", "words": [{"word": "ne", "start": 208.22, "end": 208.54, "confidence": 0.8935547, "punctuated_word": "ne?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "die", "start": 208.54, "end": 208.78, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "Die", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "idee", "start": 208.78, "end": 209.1, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Idee", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "muss", "start": 209.1, "end": 209.26, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "muss", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "man", "start": 209.26, "end": 209.5, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "man", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "nat\u00fcrlich", "start": 209.5, "end": 209.81999, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "nat\u00fcrlich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 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Und da kann man sich nat\u00fcrlich jetzt schon \u00fcberlegen,", "words": [{"word": "so", "start": 727.685, "end": 728.185, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "so", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "unterschiedlich", "start": 728.32495, "end": 728.82495, "confidence": 0.9562988, "punctuated_word": "unterschiedlich,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "sondern", "start": 729.045, "end": 729.285, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "sondern", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "es", "start": 729.285, "end": 729.52496, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "es", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "ist", "start": 729.52496, "end": 729.685, "confidence": 0.9873047, "punctuated_word": "ist", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "immer", "start": 729.685, "end": 730.08496, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "immer", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "dieses", "start": 730.08496, "end": 730.56, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "dieses", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "formulieren", "start": 730.72, "end": 731.22, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "Formulieren", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "von", "start": 731.27997, "end": 731.6, "confidence": 0.9838867, "punctuated_word": "von", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "texten", "start": 731.6, "end": 732.1, "confidence": 0.92944336, "punctuated_word": "Texten,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "\u00fcbersetzen", "start": 732.16, "end": 732.66, "confidence": 0.95336914, "punctuated_word": "\u00dcbersetzen", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "und", "start": 732.72, "end": 732.96, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "so", "start": 732.96, "end": 733.12, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "so", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "weiter", "start": 733.12, "end": 733.6, "confidence": 0.8310547, "punctuated_word": "weiter.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "und", "start": 733.6, "end": 733.76, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "da", "start": 733.76, "end": 733.92, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "da", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "kann", "start": 733.92, "end": 734.08, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "kann", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "man", "start": 734.08, "end": 734.16, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "man", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "sich", "start": 734.16, "end": 734.4, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "sich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7549799}, {"word": "nat\u00fcrlich", "start": 734.4, "end": 734.64, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "nat\u00fcrlich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7549799}, {"word": "jetzt", "start": 734.64, "end": 734.88, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "jetzt", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7549799}, {"word": "schon", "start": 734.88, "end": 735.04, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "schon", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7549799}, {"word": "\u00fcberlegen", "start": 735.04, "end": 735.54, "confidence": 0.9848633, "punctuated_word": "\u00fcberlegen,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7549799}], "speaker": 1, "id": "e6aff1f5-ee9a-4024-8384-8f66d2cb0b68"}, {"start": 736.24, "end": 755.165, "confidence": 0.94490254, "channel": 0, "transcript": "wie kann man da zusammenarbeiten? 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Das mhoin, das passt ja nach Niedersachsen auch ganz gut, w\u00fcrde ich sagen.", "words": [{"word": "sozusagen", "start": 829.55, "end": 830.03, "confidence": 0.703125, "punctuated_word": "sozusagen", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.73848593}, {"word": "in", "start": 830.03, "end": 830.27, "confidence": 0.93603516, "punctuated_word": "in", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.73848593}, {"word": "die", "start": 830.27, "end": 830.43, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "die", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.73848593}, {"word": "eigene", "start": 830.43, "end": 830.93, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "eigene", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.73848593}, {"word": "it", "start": 830.99, "end": 831.39, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "IT", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.73848593}, {"word": "infrastruktur", "start": 831.39, "end": 831.89, "confidence": 0.9538574, "punctuated_word": "Infrastruktur.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.73848593}, {"word": "das", "start": 832.03, "end": 832.19, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Das", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.73848593}, {"word": "mhoin", "start": 832.19, "end": 832.51, "confidence": 0.9406738, "punctuated_word": "mhoin,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.73848593}, {"word": "das", "start": 832.51, "end": 832.59, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "das", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.45542455}, {"word": "passt", "start": 832.59, "end": 832.83, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "passt", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.45542455}, {"word": "ja", "start": 832.83, "end": 832.99, "confidence": 0.9941406, "punctuated_word": "ja", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.45542455}, {"word": "nach", "start": 832.99, "end": 833.15, "confidence": 0.9941406, "punctuated_word": "nach", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.45542455}, {"word": "niedersachsen", "start": 833.15, "end": 833.55, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "Niedersachsen", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.45542455}, {"word": "auch", "start": 833.55, "end": 833.71, "confidence": 0.98095703, "punctuated_word": "auch", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.45542455}, {"word": "ganz", "start": 833.71, "end": 833.95, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ganz", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.45542455}, {"word": "gut", "start": 833.95, "end": 834.03, "confidence": 0.9812012, "punctuated_word": "gut,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.45542455}, {"word": "w\u00fcrde", "start": 834.03, "end": 834.27, "confidence": 0.87060547, "punctuated_word": "w\u00fcrde", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.3751495}, {"word": "ich", "start": 834.27, "end": 834.43, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.3751495}, {"word": "sagen", "start": 834.43, "end": 834.93, "confidence": 0.99658203, "punctuated_word": "sagen.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.3751495}], "speaker": 0, "id": "800c30ea-65d2-427e-8094-5721e70d0bb9"}, {"start": 835.55, "end": 840.90497, "confidence": 0.9707142, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Wenn wir uns jetzt mal anschauen, was die Vorteile sind, es ist halt wahnsinnig schnell, ne? 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Der Betreiber DataPort, der verspricht innerhalb von 6 Wochen. Da lie\u00dfe sich LL Moin woanders implementieren.", "words": [{"word": "aufbauen", "start": 841.445, "end": 841.845, "confidence": 0.89331055, "punctuated_word": "aufbauen,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.604043}, {"word": "man", "start": 841.845, "end": 841.925, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "man", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "kann", "start": 841.925, "end": 842.08496, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "kann", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "sie", "start": 842.08496, "end": 842.32495, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "sie", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "sogar", "start": 842.32495, "end": 842.725, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "sogar", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "\u00fcbernehmen", "start": 842.725, "end": 843.225, "confidence": 0.9213867, "punctuated_word": "\u00fcbernehmen.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "der", "start": 843.365, "end": 843.605, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Der", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "betreiber", "start": 843.605, "end": 844.005, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Betreiber", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "dataport", "start": 844.005, "end": 844.505, "confidence": 0.7708333, "punctuated_word": "DataPort,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "der", "start": 844.565, "end": 844.805, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "der", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "verspricht", "start": 844.805, "end": 845.285, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "verspricht", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "innerhalb", "start": 845.285, "end": 845.52496, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "innerhalb", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "von", "start": 845.52496, "end": 845.76495, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "von", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "6", "start": 845.76495, "end": 846.08496, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "6", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "wochen", "start": 846.08496, "end": 846.58496, "confidence": 0.9099121, "punctuated_word": "Wochen.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "da", "start": 846.64496, "end": 846.805, "confidence": 0.9892578, "punctuated_word": "Da", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "lie\u00dfe", "start": 846.805, "end": 847.125, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "lie\u00dfe", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "sich", "start": 847.125, "end": 847.625, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "sich", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "ll", "start": 847.76495, "end": 848.08496, "confidence": 0.6986084, "punctuated_word": "LL", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "moin", "start": 848.08496, "end": 848.40497, "confidence": 0.9003906, "punctuated_word": "Moin", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "woanders", "start": 848.40497, "end": 848.805, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "woanders", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}, {"word": "implementieren", "start": 848.805, "end": 849.305, "confidence": 0.98217773, "punctuated_word": "implementieren.", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.85012203}], "speaker": 0, "id": "740f9eb1-8ef4-42e1-a4be-7144e62d4385"}, {"start": 850.23, "end": 856.64996, "confidence": 0.9352072, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Mike hat aber wahrscheinlich auch 'n paar Nachteile, oder? 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Es gibt ja ganz unterschiedliche Art und Weisen, wie ich dann meine Softwarel\u00f6sung zur Verf\u00fcgung stellen kann.", "words": [{"word": "oh", "start": 859.43, "end": 859.67, "confidence": 0.97998047, "punctuated_word": "Oh,", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.6718898}, {"word": "da", "start": 859.67, "end": 859.91, "confidence": 0.9550781, "punctuated_word": "da", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.6718898}, {"word": "m\u00fcsste", "start": 859.91, "end": 860.07, "confidence": 0.50878906, "punctuated_word": "m\u00fcsste", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.6718898}, {"word": "ich", "start": 860.07, "end": 860.23, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.6718898}, {"word": "jetzt", "start": 860.23, "end": 860.39, "confidence": 0.98535156, "punctuated_word": "jetzt", "speaker": 2, "speaker_confidence": 0.6718898}, {"word": "dataport", "start": 860.39, "end": 860.87, "confidence": 0.6123047, "punctuated_word": "DataPort", 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Und dann muss man eben gucken und wo kann ich schneiden? 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Das ist, wie gesagt, ganz normaler IT Technik. Das muss dann irgendwo laufen in irgendeinem sicheren Rechenzentrum und so weiter. 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So, das ist die eine Seite. Und dann kommt die Auswahl,", "words": [{"word": "daten", "start": 1065.435, "end": 1065.935, "confidence": 0.9995117, "punctuated_word": "Daten,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9420059}, {"word": "dann", "start": 1065.995, "end": 1066.235, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "dann", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9420059}, {"word": "muss", "start": 1066.235, "end": 1066.395, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "muss", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9420059}, {"word": "ich", "start": 1066.395, "end": 1066.7151, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9420059}, {"word": "nat\u00fcrlich", "start": 1066.7151, "end": 1067.035, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "nat\u00fcrlich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9420059}, {"word": "da", "start": 1067.035, "end": 1067.435, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "da", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9420059}, {"word": "bei", "start": 1067.435, "end": 1067.5951, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "bei", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9420059}, {"word": "der", "start": 1067.5951, "end": 1067.755, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "der", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "verarbeitung", "start": 1067.755, "end": 1068.255, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Verarbeitung", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "drauf", "start": 1068.3151, "end": 1068.555, "confidence": 0.7753906, "punctuated_word": "drauf", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "achten", "start": 1068.555, "end": 1068.795, "confidence": 0.84765625, "punctuated_word": "achten.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "so", "start": 1068.795, "end": 1069.035, "confidence": 0.9562988, "punctuated_word": "So,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "das", "start": 1069.035, "end": 1069.1951, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "das", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "ist", "start": 1069.1951, "end": 1069.355, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ist", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "die", "start": 1069.355, "end": 1069.5951, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "die", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "eine", "start": 1069.5951, "end": 1069.755, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "eine", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "seite", "start": 1069.755, "end": 1070.0751, "confidence": 0.83569336, "punctuated_word": "Seite.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "und", "start": 1070.0751, "end": 1070.235, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "dann", "start": 1070.235, "end": 1070.555, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "dann", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "kommt", "start": 1070.555, "end": 1070.795, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "kommt", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "die", "start": 1070.795, "end": 1071.035, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "die", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "auswahl", "start": 1071.035, "end": 1071.535, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "Auswahl,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}], "speaker": 1, "id": "b3c6e92c-2fd6-4172-ad12-9c1a69a06f97"}, {"start": 1071.995, "end": 1076.59, "confidence": 0.98126626, "channel": 0, "transcript": "welches Sprachmodell binde ich an? 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L\u00e4uft das bei mir auch im Rechenzentrum?", "words": [{"word": "welches", "start": 1071.995, "end": 1072.395, "confidence": 0.9873047, "punctuated_word": "welches", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "sprachmodell", "start": 1072.395, "end": 1072.895, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "Sprachmodell", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "binde", "start": 1073.035, "end": 1073.275, "confidence": 0.93847656, "punctuated_word": "binde", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "ich", "start": 1073.275, "end": 1073.435, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "an", "start": 1073.435, "end": 1073.85, "confidence": 0.98999023, "punctuated_word": "an?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "wo", "start": 1074.01, "end": 1074.33, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Wo", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "l\u00e4uft", "start": 1074.33, "end": 1074.57, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "l\u00e4uft", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "das", "start": 1074.57, "end": 1074.89, "confidence": 0.9694824, "punctuated_word": "das?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "l\u00e4uft", "start": 1074.89, "end": 1075.13, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "L\u00e4uft", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "das", "start": 1075.13, "end": 1075.2899, "confidence": 0.84814453, "punctuated_word": "das", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "bei", "start": 1075.2899, "end": 1075.45, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "bei", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "mir", "start": 1075.45, "end": 1075.69, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "mir", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "auch", "start": 1075.69, "end": 1075.85, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "auch", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "im", "start": 1075.85, "end": 1076.09, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "im", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "rechenzentrum", "start": 1076.09, "end": 1076.59, "confidence": 0.9914551, "punctuated_word": "Rechenzentrum?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}], "speaker": 1, "id": "8094d23a-014c-462a-9c8c-7ab00b9dccc4"}, {"start": 1077.37, "end": 1078.99, "confidence": 0.9336751, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Dann brauch ich ziemlich viel Hardware,", "words": [{"word": "dann", "start": 1077.37, "end": 1077.61, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Dann", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.77348083}, {"word": "brauch", "start": 1077.61, "end": 1077.85, "confidence": 0.7714844, "punctuated_word": "brauch", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.77348083}, {"word": "ich", "start": 1077.85, "end": 1078.01, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.77348083}, {"word": "ziemlich", "start": 1078.01, "end": 1078.33, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ziemlich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.77348083}, {"word": "viel", "start": 1078.33, "end": 1078.49, "confidence": 0.98535156, "punctuated_word": "viel", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.77348083}, {"word": "hardware", "start": 1078.49, "end": 1078.99, "confidence": 0.84521484, "punctuated_word": "Hardware,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.77348083}], "speaker": 1, "id": "ce30d824-cc45-4102-8922-aae6224b5d90"}, {"start": 1079.61, "end": 1080.35, "confidence": 0.99853516, "channel": 0, "transcript": "also diese", "words": [{"word": "also", "start": 1079.61, "end": 1079.85, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "also", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.77348083}, {"word": "diese", "start": 1079.85, "end": 1080.35, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "diese", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.77348083}], "speaker": 1, "id": "9ba2eefd-1c0f-4006-ae73-ddf0eaef6190"}, {"start": 1080.65, "end": 1081.5499, "confidence": 0.9127197, "channel": 0, "transcript": "ber\u00fchmten Grafikkarten.", "words": [{"word": "ber\u00fchmten", "start": 1080.65, "end": 1081.0499, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "ber\u00fchmten", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.753218}, {"word": "grafikkarten", "start": 1081.0499, "end": 1081.5499, "confidence": 0.826416, "punctuated_word": "Grafikkarten.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.753218}], "speaker": 1, "id": "3074733a-e757-40ff-98e0-6bb76e039191"}, {"start": 1082.09, "end": 1082.59, "confidence": 1.0, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Oder", "words": [{"word": "oder", "start": 1082.09, "end": 1082.59, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Oder", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.753218}], "speaker": 1, "id": "afc2c23c-3e27-40d3-9c92-3ea4d25779bc"}, {"start": 1083.0499, "end": 1086.91, "confidence": 0.96428573, "channel": 0, "transcript": "miete ich mir das auch? 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Dann kostet mich das", "words": [{"word": "miete", "start": 1083.0499, "end": 1083.2899, "confidence": 0.88183594, "punctuated_word": "miete", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.753218}, {"word": "ich", "start": 1083.2899, "end": 1083.53, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.753218}, {"word": "mir", "start": 1083.53, "end": 1083.69, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "mir", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "das", "start": 1083.69, "end": 1083.85, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "das", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "auch", "start": 1083.85, "end": 1084.1699, "confidence": 0.91552734, "punctuated_word": "auch?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "binde", "start": 1084.1699, "end": 1084.41, "confidence": 0.8598633, "punctuated_word": "Binde", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "ich", "start": 1084.41, "end": 1084.57, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "mich", "start": 1084.57, "end": 1084.8099, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "mich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "irgendwo", "start": 1084.8099, "end": 1085.21, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "irgendwo", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "an", "start": 1085.21, "end": 1085.53, "confidence": 0.86035156, "punctuated_word": "an?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "dann", "start": 1085.53, "end": 1085.85, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Dann", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "kostet", "start": 1085.85, "end": 1086.1699, "confidence": 0.99121094, "punctuated_word": "kostet", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "mich", "start": 1086.1699, "end": 1086.41, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "mich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}, {"word": "das", "start": 1086.41, "end": 1086.91, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "das", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 1.0}], "speaker": 1, "id": "7c14de10-cf24-4760-a086-be82078a282b"}, {"start": 1087.77, "end": 1090.125, "confidence": 0.9781087, "channel": 0, "transcript": "laufende Kosten. 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Wenn ich jetzt aber f\u00fcr eine andere Anwendung", "words": [{"word": "\u00f6ffentlichen", "start": 1106.9199, "end": 1107.0, "confidence": 0.95703125, "punctuated_word": "\u00f6ffentlichen", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7677672}, {"word": "modell", "start": 1107.0, "end": 1107.5, "confidence": 0.9926758, "punctuated_word": "Modell,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7677672}, {"word": "wo", "start": 1107.6399, "end": 1107.88, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "wo", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.95813996}, {"word": "auch", "start": 1107.88, "end": 1108.0399, "confidence": 0.9941406, "punctuated_word": "auch", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.95813996}, {"word": "keine", "start": 1108.0399, "end": 1108.44, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "keine", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.95813996}, {"word": "wo", "start": 1108.44, "end": 1108.6799, "confidence": 0.9604492, "punctuated_word": "wo", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.95813996}, 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Wie ist es denn bei den beiden Wegen, die ihr nur skizziert habt? 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Was ist der preiswertere Weg?", "words": [{"word": "umdesignt", "start": 1136.67, "end": 1137.17, "confidence": 0.9112956, "punctuated_word": "umdesignt", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.6050674}, {"word": "wird", "start": 1137.23, "end": 1137.55, "confidence": 0.97216797, "punctuated_word": "wird,", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.6050674}, {"word": "aber", "start": 1137.55, "end": 1137.63, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "aber", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.6050674}, {"word": "dann", "start": 1137.63, "end": 1137.79, "confidence": 0.64990234, "punctuated_word": "dann", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.6050674}, {"word": "ist", "start": 1137.79, "end": 1137.9501, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "ist", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.6050674}, {"word": "es", "start": 1137.9501, "end": 1138.03, "confidence": 0.8051758, "punctuated_word": "es", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.6050674}, {"word": "schon", "start": 1138.03, 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F\u00fcr die Kosten sind da nat\u00fcrlich unendlich viele Stellgr\u00f6\u00dfen drin, wie wir Ja. Wie Jens ja grade auch schon beschrieben hat. Und ich denke, der gr\u00f6\u00dfte die gr\u00f6\u00dfte oder der gr\u00f6\u00dfte entscheidende Faktor f\u00fcr die Kosten ist tats\u00e4chlich, was hab ich da f\u00fcr eine Anwendung? Ja. 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Nat\u00fcrlich immer im Millionenbereich.", "words": [{"word": "was", "start": 1331.55, "end": 1331.79, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Was", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7969666}, {"word": "kosten", "start": 1331.79, "end": 1332.29, "confidence": 0.99316406, "punctuated_word": "kosten", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7969666}, {"word": "input", "start": 1332.43, "end": 1332.67, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Input", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7969666}, {"word": "tokens", "start": 1332.67, "end": 1333.17, "confidence": 0.8366699, "punctuated_word": "Tokens?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7969666}, {"word": "nat\u00fcrlich", "start": 1333.31, "end": 1333.63, "confidence": 0.85546875, "punctuated_word": "Nat\u00fcrlich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7969666}, {"word": "immer", "start": 1333.63, "end": 1333.9501, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "immer", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7969666}, {"word": "im", "start": 1333.9501, "end": 1334.1901, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "im", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7969666}, {"word": "millionenbereich", "start": 1334.1901, "end": 1334.6901, "confidence": 0.9609375, "punctuated_word": "Millionenbereich.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.7969666}], "speaker": 1, "id": "f13f5168-f5bf-413b-8f23-a5d1f9389780"}, {"start": 1335.785, "end": 1339.725, "confidence": 0.9733887, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Und was kosten Output Tokens? Und das ist durchaus unterschiedlich. Was kostet die Speicherung?", "words": [{"word": "und", "start": 1335.785, "end": 1335.945, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.61197716}, {"word": "was", "start": 1335.945, "end": 1336.265, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "was", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.61197716}, {"word": "kosten", "start": 1336.265, "end": 1336.585, "confidence": 0.9873047, "punctuated_word": "kosten", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.61197716}, {"word": "output", "start": 1336.585, "end": 1336.985, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Output", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.61197716}, {"word": "tokens", "start": 1336.985, "end": 1337.3049, "confidence": 0.90283203, "punctuated_word": "Tokens?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.61197716}, {"word": "und", "start": 1337.3049, "end": 1337.385, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.786992}, {"word": "das", "start": 1337.385, "end": 1337.545, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "das", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.786992}, {"word": "ist", "start": 1337.545, "end": 1337.705, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "ist", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.786992}, {"word": "durchaus", "start": 1337.705, "end": 1338.1849, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "durchaus", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.786992}, {"word": "unterschiedlich", "start": 1338.1849, "end": 1338.665, "confidence": 0.88427734, "punctuated_word": "unterschiedlich.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.786992}, {"word": "was", "start": 1338.665, "end": 1338.825, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Was", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.786992}, {"word": "kostet", "start": 1338.825, "end": 1339.065, "confidence": 0.96875, "punctuated_word": "kostet", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.786992}, {"word": "die", "start": 1339.065, "end": 1339.225, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "die", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.786992}, {"word": "speicherung", "start": 1339.225, "end": 1339.725, "confidence": 0.88916016, "punctuated_word": "Speicherung?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.786992}], "speaker": 1, "id": "38a92395-a45a-46ca-ab57-2f224d8fa934"}, {"start": 1340.105, "end": 1347.965, "confidence": 0.96917725, "channel": 0, "transcript": "Vielleicht eine Grundgeb\u00fchr Ja. Und so weiter. Und da muss man dann wirklich sagen, welche Anwendung habe ich? Schicke ich eher Text hin? Krieg ich eher Text zur\u00fcck", "words": [{"word": "vielleicht", "start": 1340.105, "end": 1340.505, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "Vielleicht", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.786992}, {"word": "eine", "start": 1340.505, "end": 1340.665, "confidence": 0.9589844, "punctuated_word": "eine", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.786992}, {"word": "grundgeb\u00fchr", "start": 1340.665, "end": 1341.145, "confidence": 0.9995117, "punctuated_word": "Grundgeb\u00fchr", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.786992}, {"word": "ja", "start": 1341.3049, "end": 1341.385, "confidence": 0.99853516, "punctuated_word": "Ja.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.786992}, {"word": "und", "start": 1341.465, "end": 1341.625, "confidence": 0.99316406, "punctuated_word": "Und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.68732405}, {"word": "so", "start": 1341.625, "end": 1341.785, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "so", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.68732405}, {"word": "weiter", "start": 1341.785, "end": 1342.025, "confidence": 0.97802734, "punctuated_word": "weiter.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.68732405}, {"word": "und", "start": 1342.025, "end": 1342.1849, "confidence": 0.984375, "punctuated_word": "Und", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.68732405}, {"word": "da", "start": 1342.1849, "end": 1342.345, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "da", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.68732405}, {"word": "muss", "start": 1342.345, "end": 1342.505, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "muss", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.68732405}, {"word": "man", "start": 1342.505, "end": 1342.585, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "man", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.68737423}, {"word": "dann", "start": 1342.585, "end": 1342.825, "confidence": 0.97314453, "punctuated_word": "dann", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.68737423}, {"word": "wirklich", "start": 1342.825, "end": 1343.065, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "wirklich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.68737423}, {"word": "sagen", "start": 1343.065, "end": 1343.385, "confidence": 0.9975586, "punctuated_word": "sagen,", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.68737423}, {"word": "welche", "start": 1343.385, "end": 1343.865, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "welche", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.68737423}, {"word": "anwendung", "start": 1343.865, "end": 1344.265, "confidence": 0.96972656, "punctuated_word": "Anwendung", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.68737423}, {"word": "habe", "start": 1344.265, "end": 1344.345, "confidence": 0.84277344, "punctuated_word": "habe", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.76245886}, {"word": "ich", "start": 1344.345, "end": 1344.845, "confidence": 0.9875488, "punctuated_word": "ich?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.76245886}, {"word": "schicke", "start": 1344.905, "end": 1345.145, "confidence": 0.76342773, "punctuated_word": "Schicke", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.76245886}, {"word": "ich", "start": 1345.145, "end": 1345.3049, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.76245886}, {"word": "eher", "start": 1345.3049, "end": 1345.545, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "eher", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.76245886}, {"word": "text", "start": 1345.545, "end": 1345.945, "confidence": 0.98291016, "punctuated_word": "Text", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.76245886}, {"word": "hin", "start": 1345.945, "end": 1346.445, "confidence": 0.98950195, "punctuated_word": "hin?", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.76245886}, {"word": "krieg", "start": 1346.585, "end": 1346.745, "confidence": 0.73046875, "punctuated_word": "Krieg", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.76245886}, {"word": "ich", "start": 1346.745, "end": 1346.985, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "ich", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.76245886}, {"word": "eher", "start": 1346.985, "end": 1347.145, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "eher", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.76245886}, {"word": "text", "start": 1347.145, "end": 1347.465, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "Text", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.76245886}, {"word": "zur\u00fcck", "start": 1347.465, "end": 1347.965, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "zur\u00fcck", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.76245886}], "speaker": 1, "id": "6f379c1b-e30b-4fbc-8585-963131b0d81b"}, {"start": 1349.3099, "end": 1355.89, "confidence": 0.95992434, "channel": 0, "transcript": "In meinem Mix ist die kann ich 'n einfaches Sprachmodell nutzen, was billiger ist? 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Es kommt darauf an, ne, n\u00e4mlich wof\u00fcr brauch ich da Sprachmodell \u00fcberhaupt? Mike, w\u00fcrdest Du's \u00e4hnlich sehen? Ja, absolut. Voll und ganz, das ist eigentlich mein Lieblingsspruch. Ich bin irritiert, dass Du den bringst.", "words": [{"word": "sondern", "start": 1363.765, "end": 1364.1649, "confidence": 0.8388672, "punctuated_word": "sondern", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.6224623}, {"word": "auch", "start": 1364.1649, "end": 1364.4049, "confidence": 0.9873047, "punctuated_word": "auch", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.6224623}, {"word": "hier", "start": 1364.4049, "end": 1364.565, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "hier", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.6224623}, {"word": "gilt", "start": 1364.565, "end": 1364.8049, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "gilt", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.6224623}, {"word": "so", "start": 1364.8049, "end": 1365.0449, "confidence": 0.9819336, "punctuated_word": "so", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.6224623}, {"word": "der", "start": 1365.0449, "end": 1365.205, "confidence": 0.9970703, "punctuated_word": "der", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.6224623}, {"word": "lieblingsspruch", 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Denn ich k\u00f6nnte mir vorstellen, dass wenn man, selbst wenn man verschiedene Anspr\u00fcche hat,", "words": [{"word": "zumindest", "start": 1403.9299, "end": 1404.21, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "zumindest", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.59341747}, {"word": "einen", "start": 1404.21, "end": 1404.49, "confidence": 0.9716797, "punctuated_word": "einen", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.59341747}, {"word": "weg", "start": 1404.49, "end": 1404.65, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Weg", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.59341747}, {"word": "zu", "start": 1404.65, "end": 1404.89, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "zu", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.59341747}, {"word": "einigen", "start": 1404.89, "end": 1405.21, "confidence": 0.88256836, "punctuated_word": "einigen?", "speaker": 0, "speaker_confidence": 0.59341747}, {"word": "denn", "start": 1405.21, "end": 1405.29, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "Denn", "speaker": 0, 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Und das ist der Riesenvorteil.", "words": [{"word": "diese", "start": 1816.4551, "end": 1816.6951, "confidence": 0.72265625, "punctuated_word": "diese", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9530115}, {"word": "open", "start": 1816.6951, "end": 1816.935, "confidence": 1.0, "punctuated_word": "Open", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9530115}, {"word": "source", "start": 1816.935, "end": 1817.3351, "confidence": 0.99902344, "punctuated_word": "Source", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9530115}, {"word": "software", "start": 1817.3351, "end": 1817.8351, "confidence": 0.99609375, "punctuated_word": "Software", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9530115}, {"word": "einsetzen", "start": 1817.895, "end": 1818.135, "confidence": 0.9980469, "punctuated_word": "einsetzen", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9530115}, {"word": "kann", "start": 1818.135, "end": 1818.4551, "confidence": 0.89208984, "punctuated_word": "kann.", "speaker": 1, "speaker_confidence": 0.9530115}, {"word": 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Wenn wir jetzt mal so 10 Jahre in die Zukunft schauen, welche Rolle wird KI, werden KI Tools in der Verwaltung spielen? Wird das ein Tool von vielen anderen oder eine Anwendung auch von vielen anderen sein oder wird sie wirklich zentral? 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Und schreibt uns gern noch eine Bewertung, wenn ihr denn m\u00f6gt. Tsch\u00fcs und bis bald. 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